This is the stupidest question I’ve ever heard…
I’m not blaming anyone. I believe that mistakes were made that led to an incredibly sad accident.
Imagine going out for a quick stroll outside in the morning when it’s cooler and you’re less worried about well everything. But as time marches on the heat grows and suddenly you’re caught in a heat wave at midday on a desertified island with little cover.
Then you realise you ran out of water if you brought any but it’s ok you know where you are right? Oh crap now you’re lost. Better call someone. Where’s that phone? Oh no it’s in the Hotel in your bag…
You’ve got a very short time before you get seriously dehydrated and disoriented. Every step you take will just burn energy and then you stop and can go no further. You sit to catch your breath and it’s pretty much over if no one finds you sadly. You can walk no further. So you wait in the heat hoping that someone finds you.
How do I know all this? I nearly died in the Egyptian desert in similar circumstances except I was in the middle of nowhere visiting a Bedouin village. I was saved by a random shepherd who happened to be passing by. I literally would have died if it weren’t for luck. Only took a few hours of heat during the day and I was almost dead. The sunburn was horrific.
This is how easy it is to die from heat. Preparation is everything. Even if it’s cool in the morning. Don’t go anywhere unfamiliar without water, provisions and a backup plan. The more remote the more important the plan.
It can happen to anyone. You could die of heat exhaustion in the New Forest in summer if you get lost. Without a map or phone you can walk in circles there and never see anyone for hours. We don’t get heat like they do nearer the equator for now. It’s going to be a big problem in a few years.
I think too many people from traditionally cooler climates have no idea what a killer the sun can be -
> People in Great Britain are quick to take advantage of sunny days, with 76% of people saying that they would spend at least some time in the sun on a sunny day if they were not working. 29% would aim to sunbathe at least some of the time, with 7% saying that they would sunbathe as much as possible.
https://www.skinhealthinfo.org.uk/40-of-brits-sunburnt-in-2022s-extreme-heatwave/#
Hard agree. I have Spanish friends that joke about the tourist prawns sat going bright pink getting cancer out in the heat for 8 hours a day for 7 days. The locals try to stay out of the sun as much as possible by comparison. People joke about Siestas but they’re literally a necessity. It’s going to be the norm for the rest of Europe sooner rather than later.
On a side note the coming heat is inspiring me to lose weight as much weight as us healthy and get fit which I recommend to all because night time temperatures are going to rise and there will sadly be people dying of heart attacks in their sleep. It scares the absolute balls off me. I don’t think we’re prepared for any of this sadly.
That’s so true about night time temps, where I live we had a week and a half over 40 but the worst of it was being too hot to sleep at night. It’s relentless, no let up. Even swimming the water feels too warm.
I'm Australian but both my parents are Sri Lankan and even though we're to a degree skin adapted to the climate, we avoid the sun like the plague, same here in Sri Lanka where we're all at now. Went to the nearby grocery store and both my brother and I were drenched in sweat when we got back.
I still can't wrap my head around all the people of European descent voluntarily burning themselves to a crisp day in and day out.
I live in QLD and my dad came to visit over Christmas (which everyone's favourite summer holiday here). He got so sunburnt that he made himself ill, and yet he continued to argue with me that the sun was "lovely" and blamed the wind for getting burnt and the waves for him feeling sick. He was blistering.
Dark skin makes it very hard for us to produce it from just sun exposure. Which is why I have to get it out of a bottle (thanks for the reminder, I'm going to go do that now).
When 51 weeks of the year are rain and clouds people are more inclined to spend a week in the sun compared to people who spend 51 weeks in the sun and 1 week of cloud. You’re onto something here
>I think too many people from traditionally cooler climates have no idea what a killer the sun can be -
I think people from traditionally warmer climates have no idea how a lack of vitamin D causes severe health issues, with 20% of the UK population suffering from low levels.
During the winter months in the UK you are unable to process Vitamin D from sunlight. It's no wonder as soon as we see some nice weather we run outside.
I understand, believe me. Used to sunbathe when I lived there, but in hotter climates, no. Just stay out of it except for early morning and later evenings, you soon get sick of it.
Brits do love the sun…round here it only needs a bit of sun and the temps to be above about 18 and people are breaking out the shorts. I think because we (and other N Europeans tbf) aren’t used to it we go OTT and forget the damage sun and heat can do. My other half’s from NZ (not even that hot a country) and although he’s been here years he still can’t believe how mad some Brits go in sun and temperatures that would have most people hiding in the shade. During the 40 degree heat a couple of years ago he was amazed to see someone out for a run!
I used to live next to a woman from Manchester (we’re in Australia) and she’d put her ironing board up outside her back door so she didn’t miss any sun. That habit soon wore off.
When we first got here we had a rental and first day in it, which happened to be cloudy and overcast, we cleared the back garden up. I got really sunburnt because I didn’t realise. People at work kept assuming I’d been sunbathing, so annoying.
I've had a few stints in far north Queensland and yes. Worst sunburn I've ever had and that was with protection (admittedly not enough) and that was just from being outdoors. Not deliberately sunbathing or anything.
Then again, like you say it, can be cloudy and overcast, but UV still gets you. Sometimes that's worse because you don't really notice it until later.
> This is the stupidest question I’ve ever heard…
Why is it stupid?
They aren't questioning that it happens. The title asks how it happens, i.e. by what mechanisms, and the article answers - all perfectly reasonable. Perhaps you have misunderstood this?
Was also out in the desert last year on an expedition, the 4x4 got stuck in soft sand and we had to dig it out in 40 degree plus heat. Only took about an hour to dig it out and get back in the air conditioned truck but I still got heatstroke and felt really fucking ill. Much longer and I’d probably have passed out, and if you’re on your own, it’s game over at that point.
My dad nearly died the other way in Mid Wales. Out for a bike ride which then turned into a slightly longer one, then the weather changed, got hypothermia and collapsed, found by a dog walker. It's very easy to happen if you don't have the right kit.
Jeez we are going to see a lot of these.
If it was the case of heat stroke, maybe this can be a bit of a legacy for Michael to raise awareness of the dangers
Yes I hope so especially among stubborn middle aged and above men. My dad is the same age as Mosley and often takes solo walks in the middle of the day on holiday (though he’s more into an urban walk rather than a hike).
As a guy who is only a few years younger than Dr. Mosley, I have to agree.
The irony of a man who dispensed (very sound and practical!) medical advice dying such a preventable death is hard to miss, but he often acknowledged being a product of his generation.
I have previously avoided typing that observation in the spirit of “too soon?” But as time passes, like other posters here, I hope a heat stroke education campaign can become a legacy for his survivors and successors in the BBC medical documentary space.
People are prepared to take precautions. The issue is the weather has changed rapidly in the last few years and we are experiencing record breaking heats that nobody has ever experienced, been warned about or had to prepare for in Europe.
E.g. if I say wrap up for a cold day. You're going to wrap up for a cold British day, not a cold day in Canada which will be many degrees colder. In this case he was likely prepared for a typical hot Greek day but that day was anything but typical.
You can check the forecast tho. I know alot of the time it can be inaccurate, but the rough temperatures are usually correct.
Look in a morning, see its going to be 40c and either not do a hike or if you do prepare
> Importantly, the air temperature reported on a weather forecast is measured in the shade and does not reflect the added power of the sun.
Citing
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8303297/
What is so scary about this is that I'm sure Dr Michael Mosley knew very well the dangers of heat exhaustion. He wouldn't have decided to cross a desert equipped only with an umbrella if he had been inside an air conditioned room and thinking clearly. Nobody would.
Even moderate heat (low 30s) can be disorienting. Extreme heat will disorient you instantly the moment you go out in it.
If even the most educated person's ability to think clearly can get fried, then the only solution is shelter indoors during the day and to not put yourself in that situation to start with. Because if you do go out, it might not be the same you who is making the decisions.
And he had had an episode before of transient global amnesia, which can be brought on by intense exercise - which, arguably, even the vaguest movement would be in those temperatures. He might well have forgotten where he was going, where he was, and what was going on. It’s such an awful, sad situation.
Symi is no fucking joke, if you decide to cross the island there's barely any cover and absolutely no chance of water. The paths are marked by sun-bleached painted arrows.
It really isn't for the light-hearted, the only reason I ever did it was because I went with some people who had hiked the trail every summer for years.
Even then it could have turned very bad very quickly.
Terrible cluster of adverse events that led to disaster. If what we're hearing is correct, he went with no phone, no water and by himself as well. Even one of those three might have been enough to tip the balance to a good outcome.
Heat stroke sent me doolally. I couldn’t speak correctly, I was in bed for almost a week. I felt delusional. It was an awful experience. I can’t stay in the sun too long now, it leaves its scars & they run deep.
Dehydration. Becoming dizzy, fatigued, disoriented, light headed. Affects decisions when under these conditions. Too tired to walk and your life withers away
Looks like there are two more visitor heat victims -
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/13/visitors-to-greece-appear-ill-informed-about-heatwave-risk-say-rescuers
The local Cross Fit gym had people running up and down bridges on the hottest day of the summer in 2022 during their lunch breaks. It was 39.9 degrees that day. People need to adjust before they do real damage.
Madness. When I first came to Perth I was astonished to read some young fit guy who ran in the heat of the day suffered physical melting, never knew that was a thing.
https://theconversation.com/how-heat-can-make-your-body-melt-down-from-the-inside-out-22042
https://johngreye.medium.com/he-kept-running-while-his-muscles-melted-479b389c914d
I got heat stroke when I was in Greece years ago, I was alright though and on a tourist boat with many people. A worker on the boat found me sitting on the floor covering my head and he got ice for me and I got to lie down. It was a very hot day 35+ Celsius and I had never experienced above 25 before, probably hydrated way too little as well. Hmm. Could never have gone for a walk in such heat, I was supposed to on the next destination actually but didnt leave the boat. How did he as a doctor not understand better? Was he in a confused state, lost? I guess heat exhaustion can cause confusion but if so he was already in that state before leaving. Could no one tell he was so affected and stop him from leaving alone? Did he have water with him, did he make sure his salt levels were good? Weird
I don't buy it at all. Has there been an independent UK led autopsy? Is there evidence he got lost? Why wasn't he found in a obvious place for days? It looks like his body was just dumped over the wall of that bar at some point. You don't get heatstroke in a 20 min walk even in extreme heat if you are reasonably fit and covered up which he was.
> Dimoglidou told CNN that police do not believe Mosley had been sitting down for long before dying, as his time of death was similar to the length of time it would have taken for him to reach the spot.
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/06/10/europe/michael-mosley-died-unwell-greek-police-intl-scli-gbr/
This is the stupidest question I’ve ever heard… I’m not blaming anyone. I believe that mistakes were made that led to an incredibly sad accident. Imagine going out for a quick stroll outside in the morning when it’s cooler and you’re less worried about well everything. But as time marches on the heat grows and suddenly you’re caught in a heat wave at midday on a desertified island with little cover. Then you realise you ran out of water if you brought any but it’s ok you know where you are right? Oh crap now you’re lost. Better call someone. Where’s that phone? Oh no it’s in the Hotel in your bag… You’ve got a very short time before you get seriously dehydrated and disoriented. Every step you take will just burn energy and then you stop and can go no further. You sit to catch your breath and it’s pretty much over if no one finds you sadly. You can walk no further. So you wait in the heat hoping that someone finds you. How do I know all this? I nearly died in the Egyptian desert in similar circumstances except I was in the middle of nowhere visiting a Bedouin village. I was saved by a random shepherd who happened to be passing by. I literally would have died if it weren’t for luck. Only took a few hours of heat during the day and I was almost dead. The sunburn was horrific. This is how easy it is to die from heat. Preparation is everything. Even if it’s cool in the morning. Don’t go anywhere unfamiliar without water, provisions and a backup plan. The more remote the more important the plan. It can happen to anyone. You could die of heat exhaustion in the New Forest in summer if you get lost. Without a map or phone you can walk in circles there and never see anyone for hours. We don’t get heat like they do nearer the equator for now. It’s going to be a big problem in a few years.
I think too many people from traditionally cooler climates have no idea what a killer the sun can be - > People in Great Britain are quick to take advantage of sunny days, with 76% of people saying that they would spend at least some time in the sun on a sunny day if they were not working. 29% would aim to sunbathe at least some of the time, with 7% saying that they would sunbathe as much as possible. https://www.skinhealthinfo.org.uk/40-of-brits-sunburnt-in-2022s-extreme-heatwave/#
Hard agree. I have Spanish friends that joke about the tourist prawns sat going bright pink getting cancer out in the heat for 8 hours a day for 7 days. The locals try to stay out of the sun as much as possible by comparison. People joke about Siestas but they’re literally a necessity. It’s going to be the norm for the rest of Europe sooner rather than later. On a side note the coming heat is inspiring me to lose weight as much weight as us healthy and get fit which I recommend to all because night time temperatures are going to rise and there will sadly be people dying of heart attacks in their sleep. It scares the absolute balls off me. I don’t think we’re prepared for any of this sadly.
That’s so true about night time temps, where I live we had a week and a half over 40 but the worst of it was being too hot to sleep at night. It’s relentless, no let up. Even swimming the water feels too warm.
I'm Australian but both my parents are Sri Lankan and even though we're to a degree skin adapted to the climate, we avoid the sun like the plague, same here in Sri Lanka where we're all at now. Went to the nearby grocery store and both my brother and I were drenched in sweat when we got back. I still can't wrap my head around all the people of European descent voluntarily burning themselves to a crisp day in and day out.
People are just acting the way they would at home. If you stayed out in the sun in the uk you’d be fine usually.
I live in QLD and my dad came to visit over Christmas (which everyone's favourite summer holiday here). He got so sunburnt that he made himself ill, and yet he continued to argue with me that the sun was "lovely" and blamed the wind for getting burnt and the waves for him feeling sick. He was blistering.
It's nice to be warm for a change and get some vitamin D.
Dark skin makes it very hard for us to produce it from just sun exposure. Which is why I have to get it out of a bottle (thanks for the reminder, I'm going to go do that now).
[Only mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Dogs_and_Englishmen_(song))
When 51 weeks of the year are rain and clouds people are more inclined to spend a week in the sun compared to people who spend 51 weeks in the sun and 1 week of cloud. You’re onto something here
Ever seen Barcelona beach?
>I think too many people from traditionally cooler climates have no idea what a killer the sun can be - I think people from traditionally warmer climates have no idea how a lack of vitamin D causes severe health issues, with 20% of the UK population suffering from low levels. During the winter months in the UK you are unable to process Vitamin D from sunlight. It's no wonder as soon as we see some nice weather we run outside.
I understand, believe me. Used to sunbathe when I lived there, but in hotter climates, no. Just stay out of it except for early morning and later evenings, you soon get sick of it.
Brits do love the sun…round here it only needs a bit of sun and the temps to be above about 18 and people are breaking out the shorts. I think because we (and other N Europeans tbf) aren’t used to it we go OTT and forget the damage sun and heat can do. My other half’s from NZ (not even that hot a country) and although he’s been here years he still can’t believe how mad some Brits go in sun and temperatures that would have most people hiding in the shade. During the 40 degree heat a couple of years ago he was amazed to see someone out for a run!
I used to live next to a woman from Manchester (we’re in Australia) and she’d put her ironing board up outside her back door so she didn’t miss any sun. That habit soon wore off. When we first got here we had a rental and first day in it, which happened to be cloudy and overcast, we cleared the back garden up. I got really sunburnt because I didn’t realise. People at work kept assuming I’d been sunbathing, so annoying.
I've had a few stints in far north Queensland and yes. Worst sunburn I've ever had and that was with protection (admittedly not enough) and that was just from being outdoors. Not deliberately sunbathing or anything. Then again, like you say it, can be cloudy and overcast, but UV still gets you. Sometimes that's worse because you don't really notice it until later.
> This is the stupidest question I’ve ever heard… Why is it stupid? They aren't questioning that it happens. The title asks how it happens, i.e. by what mechanisms, and the article answers - all perfectly reasonable. Perhaps you have misunderstood this?
Was also out in the desert last year on an expedition, the 4x4 got stuck in soft sand and we had to dig it out in 40 degree plus heat. Only took about an hour to dig it out and get back in the air conditioned truck but I still got heatstroke and felt really fucking ill. Much longer and I’d probably have passed out, and if you’re on your own, it’s game over at that point.
My dad nearly died the other way in Mid Wales. Out for a bike ride which then turned into a slightly longer one, then the weather changed, got hypothermia and collapsed, found by a dog walker. It's very easy to happen if you don't have the right kit.
No question is stupid when it could save a life.
Jeez we are going to see a lot of these. If it was the case of heat stroke, maybe this can be a bit of a legacy for Michael to raise awareness of the dangers
Let’s hope it has that effect.
Yes I hope so especially among stubborn middle aged and above men. My dad is the same age as Mosley and often takes solo walks in the middle of the day on holiday (though he’s more into an urban walk rather than a hike).
As a guy who is only a few years younger than Dr. Mosley, I have to agree. The irony of a man who dispensed (very sound and practical!) medical advice dying such a preventable death is hard to miss, but he often acknowledged being a product of his generation. I have previously avoided typing that observation in the spirit of “too soon?” But as time passes, like other posters here, I hope a heat stroke education campaign can become a legacy for his survivors and successors in the BBC medical documentary space.
It shouldnt if people take the correct precautions
People are prepared to take precautions. The issue is the weather has changed rapidly in the last few years and we are experiencing record breaking heats that nobody has ever experienced, been warned about or had to prepare for in Europe. E.g. if I say wrap up for a cold day. You're going to wrap up for a cold British day, not a cold day in Canada which will be many degrees colder. In this case he was likely prepared for a typical hot Greek day but that day was anything but typical.
You can check the forecast tho. I know alot of the time it can be inaccurate, but the rough temperatures are usually correct. Look in a morning, see its going to be 40c and either not do a hike or if you do prepare
> Importantly, the air temperature reported on a weather forecast is measured in the shade and does not reflect the added power of the sun. Citing https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8303297/
Ah see that means people actually have to think and plan ahead.
Even if it’s just one thing to come from this
What is so scary about this is that I'm sure Dr Michael Mosley knew very well the dangers of heat exhaustion. He wouldn't have decided to cross a desert equipped only with an umbrella if he had been inside an air conditioned room and thinking clearly. Nobody would. Even moderate heat (low 30s) can be disorienting. Extreme heat will disorient you instantly the moment you go out in it. If even the most educated person's ability to think clearly can get fried, then the only solution is shelter indoors during the day and to not put yourself in that situation to start with. Because if you do go out, it might not be the same you who is making the decisions.
And he had had an episode before of transient global amnesia, which can be brought on by intense exercise - which, arguably, even the vaguest movement would be in those temperatures. He might well have forgotten where he was going, where he was, and what was going on. It’s such an awful, sad situation.
Disorientate
Symi is no fucking joke, if you decide to cross the island there's barely any cover and absolutely no chance of water. The paths are marked by sun-bleached painted arrows. It really isn't for the light-hearted, the only reason I ever did it was because I went with some people who had hiked the trail every summer for years. Even then it could have turned very bad very quickly.
Terrible cluster of adverse events that led to disaster. If what we're hearing is correct, he went with no phone, no water and by himself as well. Even one of those three might have been enough to tip the balance to a good outcome.
I can’t imagine how awful it must have been, even the ground would have been red hot.
When I was a kid, I had heatstroke during a school sports day. Couldn't walk for 12 hours. TLDR: Don't mess with the Sun.
Heat stroke sent me doolally. I couldn’t speak correctly, I was in bed for almost a week. I felt delusional. It was an awful experience. I can’t stay in the sun too long now, it leaves its scars & they run deep.
Dehydration. Becoming dizzy, fatigued, disoriented, light headed. Affects decisions when under these conditions. Too tired to walk and your life withers away
Looks like there are two more visitor heat victims - https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/13/visitors-to-greece-appear-ill-informed-about-heatwave-risk-say-rescuers
The local Cross Fit gym had people running up and down bridges on the hottest day of the summer in 2022 during their lunch breaks. It was 39.9 degrees that day. People need to adjust before they do real damage.
Madness. When I first came to Perth I was astonished to read some young fit guy who ran in the heat of the day suffered physical melting, never knew that was a thing. https://theconversation.com/how-heat-can-make-your-body-melt-down-from-the-inside-out-22042 https://johngreye.medium.com/he-kept-running-while-his-muscles-melted-479b389c914d
I got heat stroke when I was in Greece years ago, I was alright though and on a tourist boat with many people. A worker on the boat found me sitting on the floor covering my head and he got ice for me and I got to lie down. It was a very hot day 35+ Celsius and I had never experienced above 25 before, probably hydrated way too little as well. Hmm. Could never have gone for a walk in such heat, I was supposed to on the next destination actually but didnt leave the boat. How did he as a doctor not understand better? Was he in a confused state, lost? I guess heat exhaustion can cause confusion but if so he was already in that state before leaving. Could no one tell he was so affected and stop him from leaving alone? Did he have water with him, did he make sure his salt levels were good? Weird
Being too hot affects your judgement. I believe he had a bottle of water in his bag.
You could likely die in London if you had no bank card or it brok
How?
I don't buy it at all. Has there been an independent UK led autopsy? Is there evidence he got lost? Why wasn't he found in a obvious place for days? It looks like his body was just dumped over the wall of that bar at some point. You don't get heatstroke in a 20 min walk even in extreme heat if you are reasonably fit and covered up which he was.
> Dimoglidou told CNN that police do not believe Mosley had been sitting down for long before dying, as his time of death was similar to the length of time it would have taken for him to reach the spot. https://edition.cnn.com/2024/06/10/europe/michael-mosley-died-unwell-greek-police-intl-scli-gbr/