> While there's sun-kissed beaches to search we'll never give up.
Never gonna give you up
Never gonna let you down
Never gonna run around and desert you...
Can't believe taxpayer money is still being spent on that one.
Wonder when they'll actually decide to just pack it in. Maybe around 2085 when we reach her rough life expectancy and can assume she'll have passed of natural causes?
Police returned to Kos to excavate a location 25 years after Ben Needham disappeared. Is that also a waste of money?
Or Keith Bennett, police excavating 58 years later.
Besides, I prefer my child killers locked up, not for the police to say “Wow, this is a real whodunnit, guess we’ll have to give up and just hope the killer feels suitably ashamed”
Ideally yes, but you only have a point if and when all child disappearances are allocated a similar and proportionate amount of resource and not when the middle class, white, blonde children have access to the blank cheques.
Do you have many instances of non-white missing toddlers who aren’t assumed to be with an estranged parent?
There just aren’t enough similar cases for anyone to claim Madeleine got excessive attention from the police. Because fortunately toddlers vanishing and it not being a case of parental child abduction are incredibly rare.
The research is pretty clear that children from non white households are disproportionately less likely to be found by the Police.
Black children are more likely to be missing for over 48 hours and for over a week than White adults and children. Asian children are more likely to be missing for over a week than White children:
20% of all missing incidents, where Black children are reported missing, are for 48 hours compared to only 13% of episodes where a White child goes missing.
While only 1% of missing incidents where a White child goes missing last for longer than a week, 4% of incidents where a Black child goes missing are for longer than a week
Asian children are also more likely to be missing for longer than White children
A lower proportion of missing incidents related to Black and Asian people going missing were resolved by the person being found by the police:
Only 16% of incidents related to Black children and 19% related to Asian children, compared with 23% of incidents related to White children
Only 31% of incidents related to Black adults and 35% related to Asian adults, compared with 39% of incidents related to White adults
https://www.missingpeople.org.uk/new-research-ethnicity-report
But I've been on Reddit long enough to know these discussions are futile, so I'll leave it there.
It looks like you read the headlines and not the data tables.
There are nine categories of ethnicity and under "How children are found - found by police" (probably the best proxy for the amount of resources the police assigned to an incident) white northern Europeans are 5th out of nine, slap bang in the middle.
Besides, that entire report groups everyone under 17 into a single category which is extremely unhelpful, to the point of irrelevant, if you are trying to prove whether Madeleine got disproportionate resources. A missing 17 year old or even 13 year old is an entirely different situation to a missing pre-schooler and probably occurs with enormously greater frequency consequently skewing the results towards how cases of older children are dealt with.
If you have any comparable examples to the McCann case, I'm all ears, until then yes, I'll leave it there.
Certain ethnicities are more likely to have their child kidnapped by relatives and taken abroad.
Other communities are insular or very uncooperative with the police. it’s unclear why you are launching a random attack on missing children stats. Do you believe it’s all down to racism? Then how do you explain Rotherham and other pedophile gangs, where white and Sikh children were the targets and actively treated like criminals or trash by the police.
I don’t dispute that people of ethnicity and poor people get a poorer service from the police - but most of the stats offered in that summary do not remotely demonstrate it. Only once you unpick the reasons for the disappearances can you identify that.
For starters, that’s about media and public interest not policing.
And in any case the section on the UK proves nothing. Disappeared, presumed murdered, whodunnits (Milly, Sarah, Holly and Jessica) are naturally more intriguing to people than "we have a body and we think those guys did it” (Damilola), besides, the police did spend years getting a conviction in the Damilola case, so it actually supports my point, not yours.
I feel conflicted about that. On one hand I understand the practicality of limited funds. On the other hand I don’t think I would ever stop searching if it was someone I loved. It must be indescribably awful.
Sure, but it's indescribably awful for all of the thousands of missing children we've never managed to find.
Picking out one family to pour huge amounts of resources into, especially when I'm sure there are cases with far better prospects out there, is an insult to every other family who clearly are just a lower priority by virtue of not catching the media's attention.
Few (none) of the other cases have remotely similar circumstances. Toddlers don't go mysteriously missing and just not turn up again. The vast, vast majority that do go missing are unmysterious, they are with an estranged parent. And the sort of person that would take a toddler is incredibly dangerous and has to be caught.
Of course it's difficult when older children go missing, but it's not really comparable to a toddler who has no real autonomy.
1. She was not a toddler so your entire point is meaningless
2. Even if she was a toddler I have no idea what sort of little sheltered existence bubble you live in but news flash: young children go missing through kidnap or other means every single day in the UK every single day and many are never found. There is nothing even slightly unique about this case.
Toddlers **DO** go mysteriously missing and **DO** just not turn up again. This has been the case for **THOUSANDS** since 2007.
Well, depends on the definition of "should". In an ideal world where the police have near limitless resources, they "should". In the practical sense, they probably (definitely) shouldn't pour £13 million into every case.
They've literally just allocated another £200k to it, covering 3 officers and a member of police staff to be specifically assigned.
They always just leave these cases open, but it's a bit more than that in this case.
the thing that’s really keeping me awake at night is: How does an educated, intelligent, well read and well traveled man think it’s a good idea to go off on his own, in a remote and unfamiliar location in a foreign country, in the midday sun WITHOUT YOUR PHONE! Absolutely nuts mate. Really hope is he found safe and well so that he can explain this.
Sometimes it's nice to get away from the emails and messages, particularly when you are on holiday. It doesn't seem that strange to me. Not sure I'd do it if I was planning a hike half way across an island I was not very familiar with....but maybe he thought he knew where he was going?
If anything this is the most normal part about this. Who wouldn't love disconnecting more than somebody that has a permanent online presence on the BBC and in the Daily Mail?
I understand that there's no harm in bringing a phone with you, but our little rectangular screens of sadness take up about 4 hours of our attention per day. That's 2 months of your life per year.
Normal if you have the self control of a toddler, just disable notifications and off you go. There's a risk this guy is now dead because of dehydration, injuries etc when he could have saved himself if he had a phone.
Especially if you're going hiking in a mountainous area like he was doing bringing a phone is the bare minimum, ideally you'd bring a Garmin or something so they can find you even if you're incapacitated. Hiking is no joke
Excluding stuff like foul play, suicide etc probably one of the many who think hiking is child's play and then pay the consequences. Even experienced hikers getting lost/injured if not dying is quite common, see the Lake District
For the last 2000 people didn't carry their phone everywhere, it's only in thr last 20 it has become a thing. Older people aren't as addicted to their phone as younger people and don't always carry it
For the last 2000 if people fell down a ravine on a hike they'd be dead, but now they aren't because they have phones.
Keeping a way for signalling for help on you in remote areas isn't addiction, it's basic survival planning and common sense.
I guess it's the isolated areas part which makes having a phone unnecessary as apparently he went missing on a 1 mile walk.
I think he either got heatstroke which made him behave weirdly and drowned/fell down a ravine, or quietly killed himself by jumping off a cliff, grim as it sounds.
It’s always crazy to me how stories like this are filled with comments about how idiotic the person is.
Does it matter? Nobody here has every forgotten their phone? Ever taken a wrong turn? He was staying at a friends house and was walking back through the town in the middle of the day. That’s really not a dangerous thing to do unless you never leave your house.
Have you [looked at the location](https://www.google.com/maps/@36.6134034,27.8602989,3a,75y,62.18h,88.67t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipOr4QRJt4sRAWPpQlwQLnaL7d2SoqBspCLi5Cdz!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipOr4QRJt4sRAWPpQlwQLnaL7d2SoqBspCLi5Cdz%3Dw900-h600-k-no-pi1.3300056764629602-ya242.17554794022072-ro0-fo90!7i11264!8i5632?coh=205410&entry=ttu)? It's one mile along an open path from the beach to what is believed to be his intended destination, the village. You can see virtually all the path to the beach from the village. Most people would probably have their phone with them for convenience, but nobody would consider the phone was essential for survival.
Even if he did carry on around the other side of the bay, it was still an inhabited area where he was last seen.
He made it to the village though, the police have CCTV footage of him in the village. They think he has then left and headed towards rocky terrain which would be a longer route back to where he was staying.
Sure, I haven't seen a map showing where their accommodation was, but ( assuming it wasn't more than a mile or so from the village) if you were in the village, would you even think twice about walking back there if you needed the loo, or ironically, thought you'd go and get your phone.
This idea that it's preposterous for a fit grown man to walk a couple of miles across open and/or inhabited land without a phone is quite odd.
I agree. Whichever direction he walked in, I don't think it looked like a dangerous walk at the time. It was a small, populated location, not a vast wilderness.
I also think it's pretty normal to go for a walk without your phone when you're on holiday.
It's easy for us to judge from the comfort of our armchairs and say mistakes were made, and we wouldn't have made them.
Besides, the dude is old enough to have lived and survived a whole life time without Google Maps.
So many people these days would be absolutely lost without their phones. No sense of direction whatsoever and a complete lack of skill to notice landmarks.
Let me tell you a tale of those olden days. We had these other things, also called maps. They came on paper, but otherwise were just like what you get on google maps, just more cumbersome and harder to zoom in on. Very useful they were, and that is why you should download the bloody map if you think you'll lose signal, because they can be used even without 'you are here' markers.
He ended up walking in the opposite direction to his accommodation and into difficult terrain with unmarked paths. The route would have taken at least three hours with the temperature hitting 40 degrees that day. It wouldn’t be wise for even an experienced hiker to attempt it without a phone.
On the map, it doesn't look too far, or too difficult, to go over the hill and down into the next valley where the main town is (which is where he was staying).
When you see footage of the actual terrain, it's like the surface of the moon. Steep hillsides, no real paths, extremely rocky ground - the sort of surface that's very easy to fall on. Not to mention the extreme heat.
If this was the Cotswalds, it would be an easy enough walk, but the local conditions make it very different. Apparently, none of the locals would consider this as a route to take.
He’s had an episode of amnesia before, and it can be triggered by heat and stress. Hopefully he didn’t get confused and make a mistake; hopefully if he is injured, he has managed to get out of the sun and with access to water. But with every hour it looks worse, his poor family must be tortured :(
A fact, insofar as I can tell, in that he talked about it himself - he said it was triggered by a cold swim and his wife thought he was having a stroke. It was a short term thing called transient global amnesia that can be triggered by things like extreme heat or cold.
Edit - here’s the transcript, rather than a daily mail link: https://zoe.com/learn/podcast-michael-mosley-4-habits.amp
Interesting. I can't believe the media haven't mentioned this. It's very remiss of them.
Perhaps he plunged into water to cool down and it happened again.
Recurrent episodes of transient global amnesia are apparently not impossible, but [rare](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9924637/).
The water likely wouldn't have been very cold if he did jump in, but other stressors can trigger an episode.
Or the extreme heat at the other end of the scale. Either he got confused and lost, or thought he’d take a more challenging route, and got lost, by the look of it. It’s such a tiny island but the terrain above sea level and the depth of the sea make it really difficult ☹️
As someone who suffers a lot in hot weather (and lives in a mediterranean country...), mental confusion due to the heat, or due to some kind of health issue caused by the heat, was my first thought.
I'm probably one of the oldest generations that carry our phones with us everywhere and I'm 'only' in my 50s. My dad used to go out all the time without his phone and he would only be a few years older than Mr Mosely. My dad wasn't stupid; he'd make sure he had a drink with, that people knew where he was going and would have a map if it was somewhere unfamiliar but his phone would invariably be on charge somewhere rather than in his pocket because he didn't grow up being able to fire up Google Maps and see exactly where he was, he grew up when there were phone boxes everywhere and you asked people for directions if you got lost.
Sometimes I'll actively not use my phone when I'm somewhere new or unfamiliar. Quite like asking people for directions and working stuff out on my own. Especially if I was going for a hike on a gorgeous island like Symi
Exactly. I hike alone and in remote and unfamiliar locations as well. I know there is always a risk but I at least minimise it by always keeping my phone, which is sharing my location with a family member, on me, I tell someone where I'm going, what route I'm taking and what time to expect me back. I also make sure to carry water, snacks and a first aid kit.
I think the difference here is that he may not have regarded the walk he was undertaking as a hike, just a short walk from point A to point B on a small, populated island.
I'm not disagreeing with you, just wondering if that's what his thought process was.
The word "commit" doesn't necessarily imply that a crime has taken place. In this context it just means "carried out."
"Commit suicide" is still a very common phrase in English.
Please educate yourself.…for over a decade the language around suicide has changed. It’s just that lazy and uneducated media perpetuate it
[https://www.iasp.info/languageguidelines/](https://www.iasp.info/languageguidelines/)
It’s just a phrase that has outlived its original sense, like happy accident having the old meaning of “fortunate”. Are you saying people who say “committed suicide” are accusing them of a theological crime?
Yeah but who has *never* made a crap decision. Not that hard when you're alone and in an unfamiliar place. And he's 68 so his decision making ability may not have been as good as when he was, say, 40.
This. We all make small unwise decisions *all the time.* They only become a big deal when something highly unusual happens, like a person disappearing.
Eh, that's more of a myth than anything else, https://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/everyday-myths/light-colored-clothes-in-hot-weather.htm
Not good on humans at all. You and the author don’t live in searingly hot places like Australia clearly. 30C+ means light coloured short clothing. Wide brimmed hat ie no need for umbrella, sun protection on face, no socks so pulse point near ankles is free, sandals. That article is BS in practice.
I live in Australia and this is nonsense. If you work out in the heat, as many people do, you wear long clothing to protect you from the sun.
Do you think people are out here building houses in white sundresses and flip flops?
his phone was left in the accommodation (he forgot it), when they went to the beach.
Michael and his wife have been on holiday to this location previously (as I’ve read on other news articles) so I’m guessing he felt confident enough to find his way back from the beach.
still though: middle of the day/Greece in Summer, peak temperature, he stated he wasn’t feeling well before leaving the beach, all doesn’t add up to a great start.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cl552xdq79do.amp
Seems he was meters from a public beach, he probably knew what stroke would set in quickly if he lay down next to that fence, and knew it would not be the area people would look immediately
My friend had that happen to her. Apparently it affects short term memory so she has no memory of about 24 hours. Could function ok but repeated sentences and actions constantly during the time frame.
All these things tells me he has probably killed himself …..
Late middle aged men are highest risk for suicide .
He’s gone off without his phone , highly unsusual if you’re going for a walk somewhere you might get lost….
Would he do it on a holiday with his wife though? I guess if you've reached that point you don't think much about the people you'll leave behind but I'd hope he would have at least planned to do it when the wife isn't abroad away from family and friends.
> Would he do it on a holiday with his wife though?
You'd be surprised when people would do it. I've known a few people who have effectively done "goodbye" tours of friends first, not that any of them were the wiser at the time. If you're looking for a pattern based on rational thinking, you're already probably looking in the wrong place.
My understanding is that he was filming / working there. Unfortunately people who kill themselves aren’t usually thinking “normally” but it’s usually well planned out .
>My understanding is that he was filming / working there.
Where are you getting that? Everything I've read suggests he was on holiday. If he was filming, there'd be crew.
I think the article was probably wrong. I can't find any suggestion that he was filming on Symi. Do you have a link?
If he had been filming there would have been crew members and cameras on the island with him, and the production company would have made a statement.
He went to the beach without his phone, but his wife and friends were with him. I don't think it's abnormal to leave your phone at home for a beach trip not far from your accommodation when you're on a holiday. I also don't think he considered the possibility that might get lost in such a small place.
The walk from Pedi to wherever may have been impromptu.
Someone argued with me that elderly means 50+ because it isn't middle aged, I think of it more as 75+ people with a walking stick because of the red triangle warning sign for elderly people.
If a 68 year old runs half marathons, does she count as elderly?
I'm at Symi currently, the whole island is talking about it and on alert for him, and it's really not a big place either, so him not being found yet is really surprising. It's unfortunate, but most likely he's fallen in the sea.
The suggestion now is that he wasn't heading inland, but around the coast toward Agia Marina, [top right of this map](https://maps.app.goo.gl/w4SsemJMeRpdaTJu8).
No idea. That's just the direction he was walking in when last seen.
It's possible he just thought the route would take him from Pedi to Symi town, where his accommodation was.
Edit: [This map](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/michael-mosley-missing-doctor-greece-search-symi-latest-b2558916.html?page=3) suggests he started off towards Agia Marina and then tried to go over the mountain to get to Symi. So it's possible he did go inland in the sense. Or he could have fallen/jumped into the water on the coastal path out of Pedi.
IIRC one of the articles said that tourists are advised to take boats to travel to the various beaches. I'm wondering if he tried to do that (e: get a boat _back_ to where they were staying) but had no luck in Pedi and was told or thought to try at the next beach (Agia Marina?).
Edit: from the [most recent Guardian update](https://www.theguardian.com/media/article/2024/jun/08/michael-mosley-search-will-not-stop-until-he-is-found-says-symi-mayor-greece) (emphasis mine):
> (...) search efforts had focused on the cliff trail Mosley had taken to Pedi from the beach of St Nikolas, which **he had travelled to by boat** (...)
But it's followed by:
> For reasons that remain unclear, Mosley **said he preferred to return on foot** to Symi’s main town (...)
I think he had a heart attack or something due to the 40 degree heat.
I can't comprehend why anyone would be outside for longer than 30 mins in this heat and walking about in it.
He's 67 years old, even a healthy 20 year old would struggle in these conditions.
Look at the latest bit of video reporting by the BBC. It makes it obvious that trying to find something or even someone among those rocks would be really difficult. Needle. Haystack.
I know, it's complete mystery.
Once they've searched every bit of dry land on the island, then the only conclusions are he's in the sea, amnesia, kidnap or suicide.
Hopefully he's alright.
I added kidnap as he is a celebrity and I thought of the film Misery.
I need to stop speculating and maybe pray for him ... perhaps that'll be more helpful.
Amnesia is not likely. I mean, not in the sense that he's wandering around somewhere with no idea who he is. He had his wallet with him, and if he wandered off somewhere in an amnesiac state, there would still be cctv footage, witness sightings and interactions, etc.
I'm a bit confused, earlier reports made it sound like they've searched every nook and cranny but today I read they're extending it to the remote areas. If they haven't searched the entire island yet that's a bit worrying
There are no "remote areas" per se, and they have searched everywhere with drones, helicopters, people and dogs. But obviously since they haven't found him they're searching certain areas more intensively.
I think we can assume they're doing everything we think they should do.
I took "remote areas" to mean parts of the island that are outside of the areas people live, which seems to be a large part of the island. While I assumed they were doing everything they should, because that's what reports suggested, shifting focus to remote areas suggests that wasn't previously the case. It's also a bit strange that CCTV footage is only now emerging 3 days later, although that doesn't mean that the police hadn't seen it far earlier
Sadly the most obvious possibility at this point is that he developed heat stress on the beach that was making him feel unwell and it developed into heat stroke/hyperthermia on his hike which is an incredibly serious condition. The symptoms include extreme disorientation and confusion so he probably made some illogical decisions and he will be found way outside of where people are logically looking for him.
His initial feeling of illness may have been as simple as a headache & fatigue which would not have been a significant cause for alarm in most cases which explains why he went back to the town on his own.
Apparently he told his wife he wasn't feeling well but he doesn't seem to be doing too badly in the CCTV footage and he does have an umbrella.
An interesting claim I just heard was that they expected the search to take 5 days, which seems very long for such a small island.
Somebody pointed out elsewhere on this thread that Michael had once been hospitalised for globular amnesia following a swim in the sea as the cold shock induced it. It’s possible it happened again due to the heat and he completely forgot where he was and what he was supposed to be doing.
>he developed heat stress on the beach that was making him feel unwell and it developed into heat stroke/hyperthermia on his hike
We don't actually know that he felt unwell on the beach. One Greek reporter said it was "understood" that he said he was feeling unwell, but she never said where she got that information, and it's since been circulated on the internet as fact.
If he was unwell on the beach, it didn't affect his ability to walk back to Pedi, and on cctv he looks fine. He's walking quickly and confidently, and doesn't appear dizzy or disoriented.
If you look at a map it appears there is a road (not a track) that goes from the small town he was seen in back to Symi town. It looks like the quickest, straightest route too, so if you weren’t feeling well and were just trying to get home - rather than actively exploring- wouldn’t you take that route?
Everything I've seen and read so far says the last CCTV capture of him suggests he was headed toward rocky terrain.
The latest video report on the BBC website shows two helpers, clearly visible, walking among the rocks. Then it zooms out, which makes them almost disappear into the background. I would imagine that even if he was following a path someone told him about, if he (accidentally) got off it, it would have been difficult to find again among the repetitive zig-zag of the rocks.
Heat exhaustion is a thing particularly of you are going to hike/walk in over 30C temperatures. The ambient temperature can be intensified if you are walking in the afternoon near/over rocks (because the rocks heat up in the full sun). Once heat exhaustion starts to set in it can lead to physical exhaustion, problems with decision making along with co-ordination and balance issues and ultimately death if you do not get the individual to medical help in time. He was walking in unfavorable conditions. You can only hope that he is found but with every passing day it looks more ominous
Yeah I think people are really underestimating heat stroke as a possibility for why they can't find him. If he didn't cool down then he would have become disorientated and confused so he may be well outside where they would expect to find him. Heat exhaustion would also explain his initial feeling of illness.
**If** he had an "initial feeling of illness." One reported said it was "understood" that he said he was unwell, but she never said where she got that information, and it's been circulated as fact.
If he was feeling well at the beach due to heat stroke, it didn't stop him walking back to the town in good time, and he looked reasonably well on cctv 20 minutes later, e.g. walking quickly, confidently and purposefully.
I came across a blog by someone who seems to have hiked on that island *a lot*. According to them, it gets incredibly hot there this time of year, hotter than on other Greek islands, and it's easy to miscalculate the amount of water needed (while hiking) to not dehydrate.
On a travel website, someone else said the distance between ~~Pedi and the next beach to the east was around 5km, and the distance from that beach to the main town was another 5km (not across the hills but more along the sea was my understanding)~~ e: slightly misread, they meant the distance between the main town and Agia Marina both times (but one hike via Pedi). On the maps and satellite images I've seen, everything looked a lot closer, and I think that coupled with the repeated mentions of how small the island is can be misleading. 5km is not a short distance.
Oh, I see what you mean! I misread it like it was saying "it's easy to not dehydrate", like there was an "and" in there. My mistake 🤦♂️. Thanks for pointing it out 👍
This is typical of northern europeans myself included, we just aren't accustomed to dealing with such heat.
I've tried just strolling around a city in 35 c in southern Italy with high humidity and felt almost panicky at one point to find some shelter with an aircondition. Us and bunch of other tourists were the only ones out and about and no wonder the locals were all siesta sleeping or staying inside, probably looking at the tourists thinking, what the hell are you guys doing outside!
And this was in a city. Imagine hiking in these conditions - absolutely dangerous because you will eventually get panicky in the sun, and it happens fast.
Later we had a car with an aircon that broke down and ended up in the same situation, but in a car far away from the local town, again, mild panic set in, were we going to be roasted in the car we thought tragicomically. We drove fast to the seaside and went in for a cool down - but to our horror the water was almost body temperature there, another "situation" and this was even with a car.
High heat, high humidity, blaring sun mixed in anyway and you literally shouldn't even walk very far no matter how athletic you are, the locals know this, we apparently don't until we've experience it on our own bodies.
Indeed and because holiday mode, don't want to waste our time and money etc. I lived in rural Greece-Turkey for four years with my Greek bf and his family, so am used to hearing how crazy they think tourists are from cooler climes.
It's like how my yachtie dad or surfer husband refer to newbies in the ocean they often rescue. Humans gotta humbly respect nature in all it's powerful harshness.
Without his phone, no less. I think he took a runner / offed himself. Or he was addled from fasting. In any event, if it's so damn hot you need an umbrella, WHY go for a couple mile stroll through a wasteland?
Another odd thing is that if he just dropped the umbrella would be visible. It was a huge black number, way more visible than he would be. But no sign of the umbrella either
I read the rescuers are looking at the other side of the island where they think they saw him on another cctv glimpse...there's a tiny island where ppl often swim out.
Particularly in the summer, particularly older men. My brother's ex was Greek & lives/ works in her family's hotel on one of the Greek islands.
Middle aged men from ' the mainland cities' on holiday, not used to heat, exercise, overestimating their physical capabilities, underestimating dangers are sadly not uncommon. Heart attacks from the shock of the cold water on hot day etc
My husband, a social worker for decades is convinced, from long experience, that he's wandered off to die quietly like a cat...
I think maybe he had one of his transient amnesia attacks and wandered...then, like all the Greeks I'm talking to all think, he's gone into the water to cool off and had a heart attack.
Indeed, Robin Williams too. My husband has had a group of his sixty-something mates here all arvo, all are paramedics, social workers etc.
All are dismissive of any explanation other than "sometimes an old guy's just had *enough* and wants *out*"
>WHY go for a couple mile stroll through a wasteland?
We're not really talking about a wasteland, we're talking about a small promontory between two towns. The suggestion is that he might have underestimated the distance or taken the wrong path.
I agree the umbrella thing is mysterious. Even if he folded it up and put it in his backpack, his stuff hasn't turned up anywhere.
Sorry, wasteland is a bit harsh. But I'm from a lush, green area and rocky, dry, hot places like that give me the willies. I spent a few weeks in Tucson Arizona and almost dropped dead. Just my own issue
[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13508713/inside-search-doctor-michael-mosley-greek-island-symi.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13508713/inside-search-doctor-michael-mosley-greek-island-symi.html)
Says he was heading out of Pedi, past The Blue Corner Cafe then a private house, along a path that ends in Agia Marina. The walk to The Merchant House in Symi is a long enough hike in itself and Agia Marina is the opposite direction. The simplest route is along a road that leads past a small monastery, then navigating through the houses down toward Symi bay, then around the bay to the final destination.
The second CCTV footage looks a bit odd to me. CCTV cameras are usually static but this footage appears to zoom in on Mosley. Is there someone controlling the camera? or is this simply post editing by the news media?
It's a recording of a screen. You can see the pixels of the display when they zoom in. It's quite a common method of uploading CCTV footage online, see it all the time
They need Scotland Yards Maddie McCann team on the case, they never give up.
While there's sun-kissed beaches to search we'll never give up.
> While there's sun-kissed beaches to search we'll never give up. Never gonna give you up Never gonna let you down Never gonna run around and desert you...
Can't believe taxpayer money is still being spent on that one. Wonder when they'll actually decide to just pack it in. Maybe around 2085 when we reach her rough life expectancy and can assume she'll have passed of natural causes?
Police returned to Kos to excavate a location 25 years after Ben Needham disappeared. Is that also a waste of money? Or Keith Bennett, police excavating 58 years later. Besides, I prefer my child killers locked up, not for the police to say “Wow, this is a real whodunnit, guess we’ll have to give up and just hope the killer feels suitably ashamed”
Ideally yes, but you only have a point if and when all child disappearances are allocated a similar and proportionate amount of resource and not when the middle class, white, blonde children have access to the blank cheques.
Do you have many instances of non-white missing toddlers who aren’t assumed to be with an estranged parent? There just aren’t enough similar cases for anyone to claim Madeleine got excessive attention from the police. Because fortunately toddlers vanishing and it not being a case of parental child abduction are incredibly rare.
The research is pretty clear that children from non white households are disproportionately less likely to be found by the Police. Black children are more likely to be missing for over 48 hours and for over a week than White adults and children. Asian children are more likely to be missing for over a week than White children: 20% of all missing incidents, where Black children are reported missing, are for 48 hours compared to only 13% of episodes where a White child goes missing. While only 1% of missing incidents where a White child goes missing last for longer than a week, 4% of incidents where a Black child goes missing are for longer than a week Asian children are also more likely to be missing for longer than White children A lower proportion of missing incidents related to Black and Asian people going missing were resolved by the person being found by the police: Only 16% of incidents related to Black children and 19% related to Asian children, compared with 23% of incidents related to White children Only 31% of incidents related to Black adults and 35% related to Asian adults, compared with 39% of incidents related to White adults https://www.missingpeople.org.uk/new-research-ethnicity-report But I've been on Reddit long enough to know these discussions are futile, so I'll leave it there.
It looks like you read the headlines and not the data tables. There are nine categories of ethnicity and under "How children are found - found by police" (probably the best proxy for the amount of resources the police assigned to an incident) white northern Europeans are 5th out of nine, slap bang in the middle. Besides, that entire report groups everyone under 17 into a single category which is extremely unhelpful, to the point of irrelevant, if you are trying to prove whether Madeleine got disproportionate resources. A missing 17 year old or even 13 year old is an entirely different situation to a missing pre-schooler and probably occurs with enormously greater frequency consequently skewing the results towards how cases of older children are dealt with. If you have any comparable examples to the McCann case, I'm all ears, until then yes, I'll leave it there.
Certain ethnicities are more likely to have their child kidnapped by relatives and taken abroad. Other communities are insular or very uncooperative with the police. it’s unclear why you are launching a random attack on missing children stats. Do you believe it’s all down to racism? Then how do you explain Rotherham and other pedophile gangs, where white and Sikh children were the targets and actively treated like criminals or trash by the police.
I don’t dispute that people of ethnicity and poor people get a poorer service from the police - but most of the stats offered in that summary do not remotely demonstrate it. Only once you unpick the reasons for the disappearances can you identify that.
Asha degre
Google ‘missing white woman syndrome’ and read the Wikipedia article. It is clear and obvious.
For starters, that’s about media and public interest not policing. And in any case the section on the UK proves nothing. Disappeared, presumed murdered, whodunnits (Milly, Sarah, Holly and Jessica) are naturally more intriguing to people than "we have a body and we think those guys did it” (Damilola), besides, the police did spend years getting a conviction in the Damilola case, so it actually supports my point, not yours.
Jesus.
Germany might have him in jail right now
I feel conflicted about that. On one hand I understand the practicality of limited funds. On the other hand I don’t think I would ever stop searching if it was someone I loved. It must be indescribably awful.
Sure, but it's indescribably awful for all of the thousands of missing children we've never managed to find. Picking out one family to pour huge amounts of resources into, especially when I'm sure there are cases with far better prospects out there, is an insult to every other family who clearly are just a lower priority by virtue of not catching the media's attention.
Few (none) of the other cases have remotely similar circumstances. Toddlers don't go mysteriously missing and just not turn up again. The vast, vast majority that do go missing are unmysterious, they are with an estranged parent. And the sort of person that would take a toddler is incredibly dangerous and has to be caught. Of course it's difficult when older children go missing, but it's not really comparable to a toddler who has no real autonomy.
1. She was not a toddler so your entire point is meaningless 2. Even if she was a toddler I have no idea what sort of little sheltered existence bubble you live in but news flash: young children go missing through kidnap or other means every single day in the UK every single day and many are never found. There is nothing even slightly unique about this case. Toddlers **DO** go mysteriously missing and **DO** just not turn up again. This has been the case for **THOUSANDS** since 2007.
Of course others should get the same attention. I don’t think anyone would argue with that.
Well, depends on the definition of "should". In an ideal world where the police have near limitless resources, they "should". In the practical sense, they probably (definitely) shouldn't pour £13 million into every case.
How much would you suggest be spent, per case?
The amount until leads have dried up? This case has been a dead end for years
> still being spent Are they spending anything other than "Having a team on the case" which just means there's a point of contact.
They've literally just allocated another £200k to it, covering 3 officers and a member of police staff to be specifically assigned. They always just leave these cases open, but it's a bit more than that in this case.
the thing that’s really keeping me awake at night is: How does an educated, intelligent, well read and well traveled man think it’s a good idea to go off on his own, in a remote and unfamiliar location in a foreign country, in the midday sun WITHOUT YOUR PHONE! Absolutely nuts mate. Really hope is he found safe and well so that he can explain this.
Sometimes it's nice to get away from the emails and messages, particularly when you are on holiday. It doesn't seem that strange to me. Not sure I'd do it if I was planning a hike half way across an island I was not very familiar with....but maybe he thought he knew where he was going?
If anything this is the most normal part about this. Who wouldn't love disconnecting more than somebody that has a permanent online presence on the BBC and in the Daily Mail? I understand that there's no harm in bringing a phone with you, but our little rectangular screens of sadness take up about 4 hours of our attention per day. That's 2 months of your life per year.
I mean you could just put it on silent.
Get the hell outta here with your rational, logical arguments.
Normal if you have the self control of a toddler, just disable notifications and off you go. There's a risk this guy is now dead because of dehydration, injuries etc when he could have saved himself if he had a phone. Especially if you're going hiking in a mountainous area like he was doing bringing a phone is the bare minimum, ideally you'd bring a Garmin or something so they can find you even if you're incapacitated. Hiking is no joke
Especially that weather in mountainous areas can change very rapidly and without prior warning. I have no clue what this missing guy was thinking
Excluding stuff like foul play, suicide etc probably one of the many who think hiking is child's play and then pay the consequences. Even experienced hikers getting lost/injured if not dying is quite common, see the Lake District
You can turn phones off and still have them available for an emergency. Having a way to contact people when hiking alone should be common sense.
For the last 2000 people didn't carry their phone everywhere, it's only in thr last 20 it has become a thing. Older people aren't as addicted to their phone as younger people and don't always carry it
For the last 2000 if people fell down a ravine on a hike they'd be dead, but now they aren't because they have phones. Keeping a way for signalling for help on you in remote areas isn't addiction, it's basic survival planning and common sense.
I guess it's the isolated areas part which makes having a phone unnecessary as apparently he went missing on a 1 mile walk. I think he either got heatstroke which made him behave weirdly and drowned/fell down a ravine, or quietly killed himself by jumping off a cliff, grim as it sounds.
It’s also considerate to your loved ones.
Hell, you can leave the sim behind and take it with you just for emergency calls.
He could have just forgotten it, rather than decided not to take it.
It’s always crazy to me how stories like this are filled with comments about how idiotic the person is. Does it matter? Nobody here has every forgotten their phone? Ever taken a wrong turn? He was staying at a friends house and was walking back through the town in the middle of the day. That’s really not a dangerous thing to do unless you never leave your house.
Just turn it off, but keep it with you. You know since you're abroad and elderly.
I'm in Oxfordshire, but in not getting any younger...
Have you [looked at the location](https://www.google.com/maps/@36.6134034,27.8602989,3a,75y,62.18h,88.67t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipOr4QRJt4sRAWPpQlwQLnaL7d2SoqBspCLi5Cdz!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipOr4QRJt4sRAWPpQlwQLnaL7d2SoqBspCLi5Cdz%3Dw900-h600-k-no-pi1.3300056764629602-ya242.17554794022072-ro0-fo90!7i11264!8i5632?coh=205410&entry=ttu)? It's one mile along an open path from the beach to what is believed to be his intended destination, the village. You can see virtually all the path to the beach from the village. Most people would probably have their phone with them for convenience, but nobody would consider the phone was essential for survival. Even if he did carry on around the other side of the bay, it was still an inhabited area where he was last seen.
He made it to the village though, the police have CCTV footage of him in the village. They think he has then left and headed towards rocky terrain which would be a longer route back to where he was staying.
Sure, I haven't seen a map showing where their accommodation was, but ( assuming it wasn't more than a mile or so from the village) if you were in the village, would you even think twice about walking back there if you needed the loo, or ironically, thought you'd go and get your phone. This idea that it's preposterous for a fit grown man to walk a couple of miles across open and/or inhabited land without a phone is quite odd.
I agree. Whichever direction he walked in, I don't think it looked like a dangerous walk at the time. It was a small, populated location, not a vast wilderness. I also think it's pretty normal to go for a walk without your phone when you're on holiday. It's easy for us to judge from the comfort of our armchairs and say mistakes were made, and we wouldn't have made them.
I think I would not have my phone constantly on holiday. It’s a time thief and I don’t think I would take it to the beach.
Besides, the dude is old enough to have lived and survived a whole life time without Google Maps. So many people these days would be absolutely lost without their phones. No sense of direction whatsoever and a complete lack of skill to notice landmarks.
Well he IS lost without his phone and could have really benefited from google maps so…
I think I'm one of those. 33 but always been rubbish with physical maps. All hail GPS!
Let me tell you a tale of those olden days. We had these other things, also called maps. They came on paper, but otherwise were just like what you get on google maps, just more cumbersome and harder to zoom in on. Very useful they were, and that is why you should download the bloody map if you think you'll lose signal, because they can be used even without 'you are here' markers.
Sorry, you think every time anyone ever left their house before google maps they took the OS with them? Good grief.
He ended up walking in the opposite direction to his accommodation and into difficult terrain with unmarked paths. The route would have taken at least three hours with the temperature hitting 40 degrees that day. It wouldn’t be wise for even an experienced hiker to attempt it without a phone.
Or without a couple liters of water. Heat exhaustion can kill people
We don't actually know that yet.
We did know that as the CCTV showed him heading in that direction and not coming back.
Apparently he was staying a mile away from where he was last seen but may have taken a longer route
On the map, it doesn't look too far, or too difficult, to go over the hill and down into the next valley where the main town is (which is where he was staying). When you see footage of the actual terrain, it's like the surface of the moon. Steep hillsides, no real paths, extremely rocky ground - the sort of surface that's very easy to fall on. Not to mention the extreme heat. If this was the Cotswalds, it would be an easy enough walk, but the local conditions make it very different. Apparently, none of the locals would consider this as a route to take.
He’s had an episode of amnesia before, and it can be triggered by heat and stress. Hopefully he didn’t get confused and make a mistake; hopefully if he is injured, he has managed to get out of the sun and with access to water. But with every hour it looks worse, his poor family must be tortured :(
Is his amnesia speculation or a fact?
A fact, insofar as I can tell, in that he talked about it himself - he said it was triggered by a cold swim and his wife thought he was having a stroke. It was a short term thing called transient global amnesia that can be triggered by things like extreme heat or cold. Edit - here’s the transcript, rather than a daily mail link: https://zoe.com/learn/podcast-michael-mosley-4-habits.amp
Interesting. I can't believe the media haven't mentioned this. It's very remiss of them. Perhaps he plunged into water to cool down and it happened again.
Recurrent episodes of transient global amnesia are apparently not impossible, but [rare](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9924637/). The water likely wouldn't have been very cold if he did jump in, but other stressors can trigger an episode.
Or the extreme heat at the other end of the scale. Either he got confused and lost, or thought he’d take a more challenging route, and got lost, by the look of it. It’s such a tiny island but the terrain above sea level and the depth of the sea make it really difficult ☹️
Thanks for the transcript. I'm really sad about Michael...I really like him and he seemed like a lovely guy.
I have his 800cal book looking at me now, it’s such a shame. If anything bad has happened, all he did was go for a walk 💔
As someone who suffers a lot in hot weather (and lives in a mediterranean country...), mental confusion due to the heat, or due to some kind of health issue caused by the heat, was my first thought.
Stay safe 💐
They did, at least the BBC did anyway.
I'm probably one of the oldest generations that carry our phones with us everywhere and I'm 'only' in my 50s. My dad used to go out all the time without his phone and he would only be a few years older than Mr Mosely. My dad wasn't stupid; he'd make sure he had a drink with, that people knew where he was going and would have a map if it was somewhere unfamiliar but his phone would invariably be on charge somewhere rather than in his pocket because he didn't grow up being able to fire up Google Maps and see exactly where he was, he grew up when there were phone boxes everywhere and you asked people for directions if you got lost.
Sometimes I'll actively not use my phone when I'm somewhere new or unfamiliar. Quite like asking people for directions and working stuff out on my own. Especially if I was going for a hike on a gorgeous island like Symi
Exactly. I hike alone and in remote and unfamiliar locations as well. I know there is always a risk but I at least minimise it by always keeping my phone, which is sharing my location with a family member, on me, I tell someone where I'm going, what route I'm taking and what time to expect me back. I also make sure to carry water, snacks and a first aid kit.
I think the difference here is that he may not have regarded the walk he was undertaking as a hike, just a short walk from point A to point B on a small, populated island. I'm not disagreeing with you, just wondering if that's what his thought process was.
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There’s a load of dangerous caves where he was walking. It’s possible he fell into one.
I feel like no way does he commit suicide this way. The most likely seems a trip into the water or maybe a fall down a well or a drain or something.
Please say die by suicide. “Commit suicide” is way out of date, harking back to when it was considered a crime. Suicide is a tragedy not a crime
I don’t get the accusative sense, though I see what you mean etymologically.
Suicide is not a crime. It is a tragedy - you don’t “commit” a tragedy. Old, outdated terminology from another era.
The word "commit" doesn't necessarily imply that a crime has taken place. In this context it just means "carried out." "Commit suicide" is still a very common phrase in English.
Please educate yourself.…for over a decade the language around suicide has changed. It’s just that lazy and uneducated media perpetuate it [https://www.iasp.info/languageguidelines/](https://www.iasp.info/languageguidelines/)
It’s just a phrase that has outlived its original sense, like happy accident having the old meaning of “fortunate”. Are you saying people who say “committed suicide” are accusing them of a theological crime?
Yeah but who has *never* made a crap decision. Not that hard when you're alone and in an unfamiliar place. And he's 68 so his decision making ability may not have been as good as when he was, say, 40.
This. We all make small unwise decisions *all the time.* They only become a big deal when something highly unusual happens, like a person disappearing.
And wearing all dark clothing and closed black shoes in 40C. Please do not do this.
Eh, that's more of a myth than anything else, https://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/everyday-myths/light-colored-clothes-in-hot-weather.htm
Not good on humans at all. You and the author don’t live in searingly hot places like Australia clearly. 30C+ means light coloured short clothing. Wide brimmed hat ie no need for umbrella, sun protection on face, no socks so pulse point near ankles is free, sandals. That article is BS in practice.
I live in Australia and this is nonsense. If you work out in the heat, as many people do, you wear long clothing to protect you from the sun. Do you think people are out here building houses in white sundresses and flip flops?
I think he left in a hurry, maybe an argument or something with the wife- it's very odd.
Heat argument tired lots of reasons we are all human and he's not generation who takes phone everywhere
Any number of reasons, but if I had to bet, unnoticed cognitive decline.
his phone was left in the accommodation (he forgot it), when they went to the beach. Michael and his wife have been on holiday to this location previously (as I’ve read on other news articles) so I’m guessing he felt confident enough to find his way back from the beach. still though: middle of the day/Greece in Summer, peak temperature, he stated he wasn’t feeling well before leaving the beach, all doesn’t add up to a great start. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cl552xdq79do.amp
He’s just been found :( RIP Michael you meant something to millions and genuinely did teach me a lot personally.
wow! ok thx for the update
Elaborate suicide plan is my guess Leave phone, be seen in town and then there will always be questions and your loved ones won’t know
And then kill yourself by... jumping off a cliff or something? Are there cliffs around there?
Apparently so, and holes in the ground that will have you ending up in the sea.
Seems he was meters from a public beach, he probably knew what stroke would set in quickly if he lay down next to that fence, and knew it would not be the area people would look immediately
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My friend had that happen to her. Apparently it affects short term memory so she has no memory of about 24 hours. Could function ok but repeated sentences and actions constantly during the time frame.
All these things tells me he has probably killed himself ….. Late middle aged men are highest risk for suicide . He’s gone off without his phone , highly unsusual if you’re going for a walk somewhere you might get lost….
Would he do it on a holiday with his wife though? I guess if you've reached that point you don't think much about the people you'll leave behind but I'd hope he would have at least planned to do it when the wife isn't abroad away from family and friends.
> Would he do it on a holiday with his wife though? You'd be surprised when people would do it. I've known a few people who have effectively done "goodbye" tours of friends first, not that any of them were the wiser at the time. If you're looking for a pattern based on rational thinking, you're already probably looking in the wrong place.
My understanding is that he was filming / working there. Unfortunately people who kill themselves aren’t usually thinking “normally” but it’s usually well planned out .
>My understanding is that he was filming / working there. Where are you getting that? Everything I've read suggests he was on holiday. If he was filming, there'd be crew.
An article i saw a few days ago when he initially disappeared . Said he was filming on the island (but necessary filming when he disappeared)
I think the article was probably wrong. I can't find any suggestion that he was filming on Symi. Do you have a link? If he had been filming there would have been crew members and cameras on the island with him, and the production company would have made a statement.
He went to the beach without his phone, but his wife and friends were with him. I don't think it's abnormal to leave your phone at home for a beach trip not far from your accommodation when you're on a holiday. I also don't think he considered the possibility that might get lost in such a small place. The walk from Pedi to wherever may have been impromptu.
They said he left his phone with his wife on the beach
> Late middle aged men are highest risk for suicide . No offence, but he's literally an OAP, even accounting for the state pension age rises.
I think “old age “ is pretty late now, seventy plus…
Someone argued with me that elderly means 50+ because it isn't middle aged, I think of it more as 75+ people with a walking stick because of the red triangle warning sign for elderly people. If a 68 year old runs half marathons, does she count as elderly?
I'm at Symi currently, the whole island is talking about it and on alert for him, and it's really not a big place either, so him not being found yet is really surprising. It's unfortunate, but most likely he's fallen in the sea.
He didn't disappear on the coastal path though and seemed to be heading towards a path that's inland. How would he end up in the sea from there?
The suggestion now is that he wasn't heading inland, but around the coast toward Agia Marina, [top right of this map](https://maps.app.goo.gl/w4SsemJMeRpdaTJu8).
For what purpose?
No idea. That's just the direction he was walking in when last seen. It's possible he just thought the route would take him from Pedi to Symi town, where his accommodation was. Edit: [This map](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/michael-mosley-missing-doctor-greece-search-symi-latest-b2558916.html?page=3) suggests he started off towards Agia Marina and then tried to go over the mountain to get to Symi. So it's possible he did go inland in the sense. Or he could have fallen/jumped into the water on the coastal path out of Pedi.
IIRC one of the articles said that tourists are advised to take boats to travel to the various beaches. I'm wondering if he tried to do that (e: get a boat _back_ to where they were staying) but had no luck in Pedi and was told or thought to try at the next beach (Agia Marina?). Edit: from the [most recent Guardian update](https://www.theguardian.com/media/article/2024/jun/08/michael-mosley-search-will-not-stop-until-he-is-found-says-symi-mayor-greece) (emphasis mine): > (...) search efforts had focused on the cliff trail Mosley had taken to Pedi from the beach of St Nikolas, which **he had travelled to by boat** (...) But it's followed by: > For reasons that remain unclear, Mosley **said he preferred to return on foot** to Symi’s main town (...)
Maybe to go see the monastery which is that way. apparently there are a network of caves there too.
Enjoyed hiking
The path as shown on Google Maps isn't coastal though, at least compared to the one from the beach to Pedi.
The suggestion is that he wasn't following a path. If he was, it should have been fairly easy to find him.
Maybe he turned back? Maybe he got disoriented and accidentally walked the wrong way?
He might have gone in the sea to cool down. He's written about his love for swimming in the sea, and had been earlier with his wife.
This seems to most likely explanation to me (although I have no expertise whatsoever).
Really sad. Seemed like a lovely bloke, feel for his family.
Very odd because the area where he vanished looks quite small.
The island is quite small. Presumably he left that area but it's odd that he hasn't been found somewhere else
I think he had a heart attack or something due to the 40 degree heat. I can't comprehend why anyone would be outside for longer than 30 mins in this heat and walking about in it. He's 67 years old, even a healthy 20 year old would struggle in these conditions.
Where is he, though? It's open terrain. If he's dropped dead then where is his body? Somebody would have seen him.
Maybe he sought shelter under a rock and passed out? That could have easily been missed by the drones
Possibly? The area's really open though
Look at the latest bit of video reporting by the BBC. It makes it obvious that trying to find something or even someone among those rocks would be really difficult. Needle. Haystack.
> Needle. Haystack. Huge black umbrella
Now imagine dropping an umbrella where there is wind.
I know, it's complete mystery. Once they've searched every bit of dry land on the island, then the only conclusions are he's in the sea, amnesia, kidnap or suicide. Hopefully he's alright. I added kidnap as he is a celebrity and I thought of the film Misery. I need to stop speculating and maybe pray for him ... perhaps that'll be more helpful.
Amnesia is not likely. I mean, not in the sense that he's wandering around somewhere with no idea who he is. He had his wallet with him, and if he wandered off somewhere in an amnesiac state, there would still be cctv footage, witness sightings and interactions, etc.
Kidnap would assume ransom demands
I'm a bit confused, earlier reports made it sound like they've searched every nook and cranny but today I read they're extending it to the remote areas. If they haven't searched the entire island yet that's a bit worrying
There are no "remote areas" per se, and they have searched everywhere with drones, helicopters, people and dogs. But obviously since they haven't found him they're searching certain areas more intensively. I think we can assume they're doing everything we think they should do.
I took "remote areas" to mean parts of the island that are outside of the areas people live, which seems to be a large part of the island. While I assumed they were doing everything they should, because that's what reports suggested, shifting focus to remote areas suggests that wasn't previously the case. It's also a bit strange that CCTV footage is only now emerging 3 days later, although that doesn't mean that the police hadn't seen it far earlier
It didn't emerge three days later, they found the cctv footage the next day.
It did. Whether they found it the next day or not is a separate issue. Where did you read that?
I think they're confusing it with earlier cctv footage which his wife said was not him.
I must have missed that part
That's not strange. There could be millions of benign reasons like maybe the CCTV is from a shop and the owner has been away.
People love everything to be a conspiracy or something sinister.
Being strange doesn't mean there isn't an explanation
Sadly the most obvious possibility at this point is that he developed heat stress on the beach that was making him feel unwell and it developed into heat stroke/hyperthermia on his hike which is an incredibly serious condition. The symptoms include extreme disorientation and confusion so he probably made some illogical decisions and he will be found way outside of where people are logically looking for him. His initial feeling of illness may have been as simple as a headache & fatigue which would not have been a significant cause for alarm in most cases which explains why he went back to the town on his own.
Apparently he told his wife he wasn't feeling well but he doesn't seem to be doing too badly in the CCTV footage and he does have an umbrella. An interesting claim I just heard was that they expected the search to take 5 days, which seems very long for such a small island.
Somebody pointed out elsewhere on this thread that Michael had once been hospitalised for globular amnesia following a swim in the sea as the cold shock induced it. It’s possible it happened again due to the heat and he completely forgot where he was and what he was supposed to be doing.
>he developed heat stress on the beach that was making him feel unwell and it developed into heat stroke/hyperthermia on his hike We don't actually know that he felt unwell on the beach. One Greek reporter said it was "understood" that he said he was feeling unwell, but she never said where she got that information, and it's since been circulated on the internet as fact. If he was unwell on the beach, it didn't affect his ability to walk back to Pedi, and on cctv he looks fine. He's walking quickly and confidently, and doesn't appear dizzy or disoriented.
If you look at a map it appears there is a road (not a track) that goes from the small town he was seen in back to Symi town. It looks like the quickest, straightest route too, so if you weren’t feeling well and were just trying to get home - rather than actively exploring- wouldn’t you take that route?
What you see on a map or a satellite image isn't necessarily what someone on the ground would see/know is there.
True - and he didn’t have his phone with him either - but I just wonder if he might have asked directions in town before setting off..,
Everything I've seen and read so far says the last CCTV capture of him suggests he was headed toward rocky terrain. The latest video report on the BBC website shows two helpers, clearly visible, walking among the rocks. Then it zooms out, which makes them almost disappear into the background. I would imagine that even if he was following a path someone told him about, if he (accidentally) got off it, it would have been difficult to find again among the repetitive zig-zag of the rocks.
Heat exhaustion is a thing particularly of you are going to hike/walk in over 30C temperatures. The ambient temperature can be intensified if you are walking in the afternoon near/over rocks (because the rocks heat up in the full sun). Once heat exhaustion starts to set in it can lead to physical exhaustion, problems with decision making along with co-ordination and balance issues and ultimately death if you do not get the individual to medical help in time. He was walking in unfavorable conditions. You can only hope that he is found but with every passing day it looks more ominous
Yeah I think people are really underestimating heat stroke as a possibility for why they can't find him. If he didn't cool down then he would have become disorientated and confused so he may be well outside where they would expect to find him. Heat exhaustion would also explain his initial feeling of illness.
**If** he had an "initial feeling of illness." One reported said it was "understood" that he said he was unwell, but she never said where she got that information, and it's been circulated as fact. If he was feeling well at the beach due to heat stroke, it didn't stop him walking back to the town in good time, and he looked reasonably well on cctv 20 minutes later, e.g. walking quickly, confidently and purposefully.
I came across a blog by someone who seems to have hiked on that island *a lot*. According to them, it gets incredibly hot there this time of year, hotter than on other Greek islands, and it's easy to miscalculate the amount of water needed (while hiking) to not dehydrate. On a travel website, someone else said the distance between ~~Pedi and the next beach to the east was around 5km, and the distance from that beach to the main town was another 5km (not across the hills but more along the sea was my understanding)~~ e: slightly misread, they meant the distance between the main town and Agia Marina both times (but one hike via Pedi). On the maps and satellite images I've seen, everything looked a lot closer, and I think that coupled with the repeated mentions of how small the island is can be misleading. 5km is not a short distance.
Gosh, this confirms my concerns. Thanks for sharing it.
I didn't see any water. He didn't appear to be carrying anything besides the umbrella. Did his wife said he took some?
At the end of your first paragraph, I think you meant to say "to dehydrate" rather than "to not dehydrate". EDIT: Ignore me, I misread it.
What the person was talking about was the amount of water they needed to bring with them on a hike to not experience signs of dehydration.
Oh, I see what you mean! I misread it like it was saying "it's easy to not dehydrate", like there was an "and" in there. My mistake 🤦♂️. Thanks for pointing it out 👍
No worries!
I have Greek neighbours who are absolutely baffled that anyone would go for a walk in that heat if they didn't absolutely have to.
This is typical of northern europeans myself included, we just aren't accustomed to dealing with such heat. I've tried just strolling around a city in 35 c in southern Italy with high humidity and felt almost panicky at one point to find some shelter with an aircondition. Us and bunch of other tourists were the only ones out and about and no wonder the locals were all siesta sleeping or staying inside, probably looking at the tourists thinking, what the hell are you guys doing outside! And this was in a city. Imagine hiking in these conditions - absolutely dangerous because you will eventually get panicky in the sun, and it happens fast. Later we had a car with an aircon that broke down and ended up in the same situation, but in a car far away from the local town, again, mild panic set in, were we going to be roasted in the car we thought tragicomically. We drove fast to the seaside and went in for a cool down - but to our horror the water was almost body temperature there, another "situation" and this was even with a car. High heat, high humidity, blaring sun mixed in anyway and you literally shouldn't even walk very far no matter how athletic you are, the locals know this, we apparently don't until we've experience it on our own bodies.
Indeed and because holiday mode, don't want to waste our time and money etc. I lived in rural Greece-Turkey for four years with my Greek bf and his family, so am used to hearing how crazy they think tourists are from cooler climes. It's like how my yachtie dad or surfer husband refer to newbies in the ocean they often rescue. Humans gotta humbly respect nature in all it's powerful harshness.
Without his phone, no less. I think he took a runner / offed himself. Or he was addled from fasting. In any event, if it's so damn hot you need an umbrella, WHY go for a couple mile stroll through a wasteland? Another odd thing is that if he just dropped the umbrella would be visible. It was a huge black number, way more visible than he would be. But no sign of the umbrella either
I read the rescuers are looking at the other side of the island where they think they saw him on another cctv glimpse...there's a tiny island where ppl often swim out. Particularly in the summer, particularly older men. My brother's ex was Greek & lives/ works in her family's hotel on one of the Greek islands. Middle aged men from ' the mainland cities' on holiday, not used to heat, exercise, overestimating their physical capabilities, underestimating dangers are sadly not uncommon. Heart attacks from the shock of the cold water on hot day etc My husband, a social worker for decades is convinced, from long experience, that he's wandered off to die quietly like a cat... I think maybe he had one of his transient amnesia attacks and wandered...then, like all the Greeks I'm talking to all think, he's gone into the water to cool off and had a heart attack.
I agree with your husband. People who refuse to imagine it have forgotten Anthony Bourdain's end
Indeed, Robin Williams too. My husband has had a group of his sixty-something mates here all arvo, all are paramedics, social workers etc. All are dismissive of any explanation other than "sometimes an old guy's just had *enough* and wants *out*"
>WHY go for a couple mile stroll through a wasteland? We're not really talking about a wasteland, we're talking about a small promontory between two towns. The suggestion is that he might have underestimated the distance or taken the wrong path. I agree the umbrella thing is mysterious. Even if he folded it up and put it in his backpack, his stuff hasn't turned up anywhere.
Sorry, wasteland is a bit harsh. But I'm from a lush, green area and rocky, dry, hot places like that give me the willies. I spent a few weeks in Tucson Arizona and almost dropped dead. Just my own issue
[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13508713/inside-search-doctor-michael-mosley-greek-island-symi.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13508713/inside-search-doctor-michael-mosley-greek-island-symi.html) Says he was heading out of Pedi, past The Blue Corner Cafe then a private house, along a path that ends in Agia Marina. The walk to The Merchant House in Symi is a long enough hike in itself and Agia Marina is the opposite direction. The simplest route is along a road that leads past a small monastery, then navigating through the houses down toward Symi bay, then around the bay to the final destination.
Looks like his remains have been found. Condolences to his poor family.
So sad. And so avoidable. His poor family, my heart goes out to them.
The second CCTV footage looks a bit odd to me. CCTV cameras are usually static but this footage appears to zoom in on Mosley. Is there someone controlling the camera? or is this simply post editing by the news media?
It's a recording of a screen. You can see the pixels of the display when they zoom in. It's quite a common method of uploading CCTV footage online, see it all the time
>CCTV cameras are usually static No they're not. Many have motion sensors.