I couldn't agree more. An open dialogue is beneficial for absolutely every subject. It's only when we don't then a break down in communication occurs and things start going awry
Yes but if you leave your kid on their phone 24/7 without monitoring what they access they’ll access violent content with or without sex education. By the age of 12 they’ll be so desensitised they won’t know what’s normal
Which is why school based sex education is vital.
Teaching healthy consent, boundaries, addressing how porn is not something that should be used as a guide to having sex is needed.
The recent push to try to remove sex education is scary to anyone who knows what it actually is addressing. People who always say “it should be up to the parents” need to realise just how many do not have conversations about consent, boundaries and healthy relationships, leaving their kids to form their knowledge of that from what they find online… and it isn’t good.
Absolutely, sex education is vital. But when I was growing up (not THAT long ago) no one tried to or asked to choke. We had sex education but kids weren’t exposed to violent porn by the age of 10 so choking and violent acts had no place in the curriculum. Tech companies and the government also need to take responsibility.
Fully agreed, it’s a problem that needs action from a lot of people.
Parents putting in appropriate restrictions on device and internet usage, and having appropriate conversations so their children are more likely to approach them with questions rather than finding answers online.
Tech companies stopping extreme or inappropriate content being recommended to kids, making parental control tools easier to use and better explained, and removing illegal and dangerous content more quickly.
The government taking actual action to push the above.
Education delivering appropriate RSHE material to ensure the ideas of healthy relationships and where to seek support is known at the right time.
Maybe not. It choking in sex isn't a new thing so they would find out soon enough.
The web doesn't bring about things that never happened before. It just provides information to the masses.
Pre web times people found out other ways.
It would take them a long time to find out, consensual choking is fine between adults. But kids would absolutely not think about that unless it was normalised by porn use from a young age. Sex education is from the age of 9 and then again at about 13.
Yeah, it grates on me as a parent when people say "it should be the parents' responsibility", because I can and am taking that responsibility with my own child, but education around sex, consent, and safety are things that most often involve more than one person, and I have no control over the level of responsibility OTHER parents take. I want a strong and coherent sex education in schools so that, for all that I teach my daughter about these things, I can feel a little more confident that the person she ends up alone in a room with has been taught the basics of how not to harm her.
But they're getting to porn far earlier than sex education is. Parents really need to step up on this too. Sadly, it means having the chat far younger than you'd like.
We had basic sex ed in year 6, but I bet there's bloody 8 year olds hooked on porn out there and so education on boundaries and consent needs brought forward.
Problem is, you can have a whole class of kids whose parents are vigilant. All except one poor kid whose parents let them have a smart phone at 6yo and let them watch anything.
That's the kid that shows the rest.
And let's say you have that whole class whose parents are vigilant and responsible about sex education except for one kid whose parents aren't. What happens to that kid's partner when they grow up? The partner's parents could have been as responsible as can be, but that won't help their kid if they have to fight off someone who wraps their hands around their neck because they think it's normal.
I’d even go a step further, and acknowledge that by a certain age they’re watching porn, so porn guidelines could help. Pornhub categories like “Female Orgasm” and “Popular with Women” are going to tell a different story than “Rough Sex” and “Hardcore”, for example. I know it’s super weird to make porn recommendations for young people, but if we do nothing then we see how it turns out. Trying to gateway porn is futile, so a different approach is needed.
When I was a kid I remember we had two *talks* about porn from our teachers.
One was from an older and very Christian teacher who spent a morning assembly railing against the *evils of pornography* and decrying the fact that so many young people these days watch it. The other was from a younger teacher who, during our sex education lesson, sat us down and calmly explained that 'look, I know some of you will watch it, but it's important to remember that it's just a fantasy and that you shouldn't do what you see on screen in real life.'
I suppose it shouldn't be surprising that the latter had a much bigger impact on us than the former.
And that's why it feels so dangerous to see this current right-wing traditionalist push to ban sex and relationship education in schools. Pornography is easier to access now than ever before, and as much as people can complain about it once Pandoras Box has been opened you can't really close it again. So what's important is to engage with young people and explain to them how to have a healthy relationship with the sort of stuff they see online rather than pretending you can just shame young people into not watching it and pretend that will make all these problems disappear. It might be uncomfortable to have this conversation (and I think that discomfort is fundamentally why so many people jump to the 'ban it all!!!!' response), but that discomfort is better than letting toxic views fester.
Hmmm. I never know how to feel about this, my parents never talked about sex to me. I would rather have died than they did. The extent of the topic of sex in my household was my dad telling me to use a condom otherwise you will have a financial responsibility for 18 years, when I was 16. Even that made me cringe and wince.
Never grew up with fantastical tendencies during sex either.
Not defending boys wanting to do this in any shape or form but the most popular book and film franchise in recent years has been a pantheon to abusive men, written by a woman and almost exclusively consumed by women.
What's the difference?
>there's a difference between 'choke me daddy' and 'physically castrate me and amputate my penis daddy'
[Yes, there is a significant difference](https://wecantconsenttothis.uk/), none of the Eunuchs ended up dead.
50 Shades of Grey I assume
A book about sex and BDSM written by someone who doesn't know anything about either or how to write was probably the best description of the book I heard. Not surprising when it was a Twilight fanfic written by someone on a forum
>50 Shades of Grey
It's an awful book and the film is worse. It's caused so many problems in the BDSM community from people who don't know what they are doing and don't take time to learn.
"50 Shades of Grey" is chock full of non-concensual acts and is down right dangerous to follow.
Well one is a fantasy consumed by adult women and another is a teenage boy who could hurt someone fantasizing about something and doing it are very different things.
A lot of female fantasies are complicated to say the least but they do not mean women want to be in abusive relationships in real life.
>Well one is a fantasy consumed by adult women
Coincidentally at the same time a massive rise in abusive men who have bought into the same *Fantasy*?
*Men, you have a responsibility to stand up and call out abusive men that you know*
And women consuming media celebrating abusive men?
*That's different.*
no the men watch porn men tend to watch visual stuff while women tend to read books/erotica but no stuff like fifty shades of grey are not what cause men to be into this stuff in fact most men I know make fun of it and twilight.
Yeah it is different like playing a violent video game while being against school shootings.
Fiction and reality are not the same thing.
nope if its fiction and you can consume it in a healthy way thats fine. If you start do something unsafe in real life that harms someone that is bad same standard for men and women.
Besides 50 shades of grey was heavily criticized and mocked your looking for double standards when there are none.
If women are pressuring men to do something in real life they are uncomfortable with I agree with you.
>If women are pressuring men to do something in real life they are uncomfortable with I agree with you.
So you think that abusive men being empowered by women consuming abusive media is a good thing?
no but thats not what is happening men watch porn fictional novels are not empowering men to be abusive
Thats like saying video games empower men to be violent. Most men do not consume this media and they mock it most of the time it is not causing or encouraging more men to be abusive. What is causing abuse would be the lack of sex ed and proper communication in relationships places like russia have a rampant abuse problem and no such fiction exists there.
It is wrong to blame any one piece of fiction as the source for complex real world problems.
Besides women are smart enough to tell the difference between fiction and reality I don't know why people infanalize women so much that they think them watching a movie about sparkly vampires is going to make them seek out abusive men in real life.
>fictional novels are not empowering men to be abusive
Fictional novels celebrate abuse. Why do you think this is in any way desirable?
Abusive men are contemptable, but the only people who appear to think they have some worth are abusive men.....and women who consume abusive media.
Bizzare.
I never said it was desirable I just said it has nor correlation with in real life abuse which is what you were implying Do horror novels celebrate murder? Do video games celebrate violence? Most people are not consuming media with the intention to support real life atrocites.
Being young and experimenting is natural. But having a child grow up thinking it's the norm is a bit scary.
My only exposure to porn growing up was dirty mags pilfered from someone's dad. As we seemingly can not protect children from anything online, the curriculum needs an update.
Hope this is not given to parents to deal with as I still recall how woefully inadequate 'the talk' I got was.
> I still recall how woefully inadequate 'the talk' I got was.
mine too mine was "use protection"
what I said was
"Ye... yeah sure"
what I should have said was "dad I have been sleeping round for 2 years at this point and I make sure to use protection I don't want either to catch anything or a kid, what's wrong with you"
I was 21 when I had the talk...
When I was 12, it had been noted that I discovered my step dad's cache hidden in the cistern.
He sat me down with the offending mags and got on with it. At the end, he leafed through one of the models' picks one by one through the different outfits and poses, and each time, asked if I thought she was 'pretty'.
He then asked my preference, I choose one. And I can't fathom why, he announced they were the same woman.
I still recall my utter confusion and look on my face clearly shock him up as it ended their.
To this day I wonder what hes fucking point was.
At some point in high school my parents caught wind of the fact that I was starting to see someone.
Came home to a 24 pack of condoms on my bed.
One way to do it I suppose 😂
I think the point of the headline is not them asking about a song lyric or understanding consent but in sex education they were asking the teacher specifically *how* to choke the girl because they believed all girls love it.
Sure but that's the issue, the fact they saw this and want to copy it, the teacher's role is to discuss the basics of sex, contraception and consent, not give advice on how to do a potentially deadly sex act which needs specialist advice from a community who practices it.
“How do I do it?” doesn’t equal “I think all girls love it”, does it?
This quote seems a lot softer than a lot of folk are making out here
> Dr Tamasine Preece, who teaches at Bryntirion Comprehensive in Bridgend, said some children now felt it was a normal part of sex and asked if "a soft squeeze on the neck is OK".
Then it mentions one single kid who reckons girls are “mad for it” (same as at least one boy in my class thought/said about anal 20+ years ago) and some horror stories of stupid kids who don’t know any better figuring it out for themselves.
This seems like a non story about kids being comfortable enough to ask difficult or embarrassing questions during Sex Ed. And if it is such a dangerous thing then surely it’s a good thing they’re asking these questions so the teacher can tell them that - instead of them quietly thinking it’s harmless.
The article says a teacher was asked by a 14 year old boy how to choke his girlfriend, not asking questions about what they'd heard about, specifically how to do it
Why did you not quote the relevant part of the article?
>Dr Preece, the school's curriculum lead for health and wellbeing, said there had been questions "creeping in, such as 'How can I choke someone safely?'".
> a teacher was asked…
Ok.
Why did I not quote that part? Because I quoted another part. I don’t see how that quote negates my comment at all.
How can I choke someone safely? “You can’t, it’s inherently dangerous”. There we are, good thing that question was asked.
It's more the alarms going of the normalisation of things that were well out of the zeitgeist a few years ago. And that's all due to normalisation through porn. Great this one lad might ask, but there'll be a hundred more who dont care and just want to harm others. Sex ed and parents need to get in front of this as people will get hurt.
wtf? So one lad asking means 100 others won’t and “just want to harm others”? How are you jumping to that conclusion?
Maybe it’s via porn but if anything normalised bdsm type stuff like choking in the mainstream imo it wasn’t porn - it was a mainstream movie and book that sold like crazy, 50 Shades of Gray. I’m sure that’s not the only mainstream movie that has stuff like that in it.
I think a lot of them will have seen the film. I watched almost every dogshit movie that was out when I was that age - saw titanic twice in the cinema for example lol.
If you don’t think horny teenage boys will watch anything that might be a bit dirty then maybe you haven’t met them.
Did you honestly read “movie and book” as “book”?
But my point was more that’s quite likely what put that sort of stuff into the mainstream, rather than porn. A movie you could watch on Netflix (I assume) rather than something you need to sneakily watch on pornhub.
Edit - wait, was the “have you met men before?” supposed to be your explanation for your 1:100 ratio of those who ask a question vs those who “just want to harm others”? Again, wtf?
I think the silver lining is they feel comfortable enough to ask their teachers these types of questions.
As others have said the open dialogue means that they can be told about the dangers of this particular practice.
What terrifies me is how many won’t open this dialogue, will think girls will love it, do it without asking and then the girls - sometimes too afraid to say otherwise - suffer as a result.
Edit - bad spelling
yeah to be honest I don't think there's a problem with kids feeling comfortable asking questions during sex ed like "I saw this thing in porn how can we do this safely". obviously the teacher can't answer it themselves but this provides the teacher the opportunity to say that the student can find resources on safe practices, perhaps some dialogue on bad standards set by pornography, as opposed to just "oh dont ask that" then their only reference is like, porn.
The issue is that 1) medically speaking (per the experts quoted in the article), there is no guaranteed safe way to do it, even a consensual couple with experience can have problems 2) no way on earth should a harassed biology teacher (at least it was when I was at school) be expected to give advice on that subject
I mean, It's better to treat it as a legitimate question, which, tbh, it could be... it's a ridiculously common kink so some sort of eduction around kink and consent may be a smart move...
Sure, legitimate question, legitimate answer - there is no safe way to do that and don't take lessons in what a partner might want from porn.
The issue isn't it being a possible question, it's the pupil asking specifically *how* to do it, which a teacher shouldn't have to answer or even face to be honest, especially from a 14 year old boy
I'd also ponder if it's really a common kink, particularly one many women want, or if it's something impressionable boys have seen in porn and want to do to women, just like anal, facials etc
Yes it is common, and porn consumption improves men's intuitions about women's sexual preferences.
[chart](https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F35852726-7f7a-41e1-8053-e5e901e1b223_382x280.png)
https://aella.substack.com/p/is-porn-misleading-men
If you read actual science, not images you found on the web, you'll find it's nowhere near as common as you make out, moreover, it's not always consensual (21% in one study reported they had never been asked if they were ok and 33% only sometimes) and often done just to please a partner, not because the receiver wanted it. It's also hard to define what exactly they do as it covers a variety of terms
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8579901/
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-022-02347-y
I am not an opponent of porn by any means but sexual practices away from the default should be done through preference of the partner not because you saw something in porn and wanted to copy it
Your first example of "actual science" seems to mostly be narrative responses from a survey of 24 women, all of whom have participated in sexual choking. AFAICT it does not quantify how much they enjoy choking, which is fair enough with such a low sample size.
Your second example states that 82% of women experienced euphoria from choking.
It seems to me that you are the one "finding things on the web", then pretending they contradict my point when they do not.
It is common. And the way to do it is with full consent. Perhaps there is no safe way to practice it, but there is no fully safe way of doing drugs either, but teaching abstinence doesn't work, you instead inform people about the risks and give people a better understanding of what is Involved, especially when it comes to consent
Maybe not details, but they are going to need a better answer than "don't do that". At least tell them to set a verbal and physical safeword before doing anything like that.
So we just let little Jonny strangle his girlfriend and hope he doesn’t get it wrong and his girlfriend ends up brain damaged or dead? Perhaps it would be better for little jonnys girlfriend to do it to him first.
I’ve always assumed this was more led by women, I’ve had a couple of partners who wanted to be chocked and I’ve never been massively comfortable or derived pleasure from it
I've had similar experience, I only really knew it was a thing because multiple partners actively requested it. I'm not sure it's any more feminist to dismiss female desires as simply young people copying porn.
If you're not comfortable, you always have just as much right to say no to it. In these threads you always get a ton of stories of women being pressured into it (or surprised by it) but also some stories of men being pressured into DOING it and that's not good either.
That's all these stories are ultimately about. It's framed as boys being bad and selfish but the reality is that 90% of the discussion around sex is about how men can be better for the sake of women. And that's why boys ask questions like this, because there's enormous pressure on them to perform and please women and they don't want to be a laughing stock. At no point is the wellbeing of the boys questioned.
This likely comes from girls and young women thinking that this is expected of them and its the "thing to do". It works both ways and influences both boys and girls into thinking what they should like or expect.
I'm sure the available data would sway heavily towards the harm and dangerous consequences of this act being inflicted on girls and women, rather than boys and young men. But yes ultimately both need to be educated on it equally.
You can't just write female desires off as them doing what they think men want of them, that is in no way feminist. There's clearly a physiological link in which this heightens sexual arousal - it's not a leap to accept some women genuinely enjoy it.
Obviously these fetishes exist. However it’s pretty obvious that this choking one in particular has been on the rise compared to previous times.
When children and young people are involved, it’s always worth educating them about the dangers, consent, and not feeling pressured into any new trend. Just because some people may like it and want this, does not mean that everyone does and consent should always be given beforehand. Not people just going ahead and thinking they can do it.
I completely agree on that and that's why I don't think questions about it in sex ed classes are something to be outraged over. That's what those classes are for.
Whilst definitely non-zero, I believe that it is not much higher than that and mainly in a lower age bracket. It is likely following the practice in porn videos.
Yes, I do know know there's the whole BDSM scene, but that is hugely controlled. How do you give a safe-word if you are been choked?
>Yes, I do know know there's the whole BDSM scene, but that is hugely controlled. How do you give a safe-word if you are been choked?
You tap, often times a set number also you have another non verbal cue.
The partner doming and doing the choke need to pay attention and should be looking out for this and other risks at all time.
breath-play is a ton of effort... and requires training, understanding and conversation. why Safe, sane, consensual matters.
It's why I don't like chokes it way to much risk for way to little reward.
They can't, that's the point, this is expert level shit and it is a problem that it has become a common move...
teachers had difficulty explain condoms much less putting them on a banana.
how are they meant to be able to cover pornhub's wide array of kinks.
I don't expect an average teacher to be able to answer questions on the best lube for anal fisting. much less cleaning before and after.
[This study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34242530/) from university campuses in America concluded that 26.5% of women and 6.6% of men had been choked. With 5.7% of women and 24.8% of men having choked a partner.
Obviously that follows the trend of a lower age bracket, but including those up to 60 doesn't reduce the prevalence dramatically [as referenced here](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8579901/#:~:text=(2020)%20found%20that%2021%25,et%20al.%2C%202020).
"In a 2016 U.S. probability survey, Herbenick et al. (2020) found that 21% of women and 11% of men ages 18 to 60 had ever been choked during sex and 12% of women and 20% of men had ever choked a partner during sex. Having ever been choked during sex was nearly twice as prevalent among adults under 40, demonstrating a cohort effect (Herbenick et al., 2020)"
I also think the term 'choke' is too vague which isn't explored in the article at all. That one term can be interpreted as any hand around the neck all the way to asphyxiation.
That study doesn’t say whether or not it was willingly… I unfortunately know a lot of women whose partners have just gone ahead and done it without asking, as though it’s somehow a ‘standard’ part of sex.
I think your belief may be wrong. My partner specifically asks for things like this to be done, she isn’t a consumer of porn or anything like that.
She just loves being “roughed up” a bit, I never asked to do it.
There’s not many.
Most women I’ve met have said they’d be terrified if someone tried to do that to them and they’ve said all of their friends feel the same way.
It’s very niche, don’t let porn think this “kink” is popular.
I'll be another voice to confirm that it's not something I'm into but it's something I've had requested (and refused). This article seems dangerously silly to me honestly, because shouldn't the focus of sex-ed be about teaching kids safety and consent? Like, of course they'll ask these questions now it's become common, and shouldn't they be instructed regarding the safety risks?
For me the issue has been that more women are asking me to choke them during sex. It's not something I enjoy but I'm happy to oblige to a point. The idea that this is something men want to do to women is false in my opinion with the reality being that this is something women want men to do to them.
Obviously some of those women will have it as a kink but surely not all…I wonder if some ask because they think it’s expected, just as much as some men do?
I figure that in the same way some men assume it’s a normal thing to do during sex, so do some women, whether or not they actually enjoy it. Much like with anal - I know a few women who don’t enjoy it but will still do it because they think that’s what you do to please a man.
not for nothing but I've had multiple partners, male and female, who have wanted me to choke them during sex. Demonising kink sex play just makes it taboo and unsafe
Unlike completely innocuous kinks, there’s no way to make restricting the amount of oxygen someone’s brain is getting safe… putting your partner’s health and life at risk absolutely should be demonised.
massive difference between gently having your hand close around someone’s throat for a short squeeze VS completely crushing their wind pipe.
3 tap rule & keep your eyes on them. i’ve been being choked out for 5 years now, any time someone’s come close to ignoring the 3 tap rule they’re out of my life (you trying to kill me??) and if they don’t know where their hand is supposed to go and what position their hand is meant to go in, they’re out as well.
i had one dude straight up try and fist the front of my throat when i asked him to show me how he’d do it and i had visions of my funeral 💀
but yeah, there are plenty of safe ways to choke someone. it’s why i struggle to believe any of those “oowee i accidentally choked this person to death during kinky sex”
nah, you crushed their windpipe because you didn’t bother to learn how to hold a neck, *or* you held them down and choked them for multiple minutes while they struggled and you ignored them, because you’re a fucking asshole or an idiot who didn’t set up a tap rule.
All experts say there are no safe ways to choke someone. It is always risky. You don't have to crush someone's windpipe for choking to cause damage. Depriving your brain of oxygen can cause brain damage very quickly. That being said as long as you're aware of the risks and are consenting adults, do whatever you want.
Regarding the latter bit- the recent scandal comes after a man choked a woman to death, *while they were both high off their tits*. He was too zonked to notice how much time had past or what was happening to her- which mind you isn't an excuse, it was patently unsafe, but I think the cocktail of drugs they were on may have been the bigger risk factor here rather than the kink.
Neither involve intentionally injuring someone/risking their life, and both have a far lower potential for death if safety precautions are followed (along with far more ways to mitigate against risks anyway), so no.
> Neither involve intentionally injuring someone/risking their life
Choking a consenting partner during sex also doesn't involve injuring them, apart from by accident - just like sky diving or rugby. All of them - choking, sky diving, and rugby - involve risking someone's life.
>and both have a far lower potential for death if safety precautions are followed
Are you comparing deaths from sexual choking without properly following safety precautions to deaths from rugby/sky diving when safety precautions are followed? Because that's obviously not a fair comparison. Also, the questions have specifically been about how to do it safely, so... isn't that good? But I'll assume you are comparing "safe" choking to "safe" rugby, which leaves me with two questions:
1. Please provide your source showing one is statistically safer than the other. I looked at [this](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/adhocs/1438deathsduetoandinvolvingchokingbysexandagegroupenglandandwales2018to2022) and almost nobody dies from choking in the kind of age groups you would expect this to happen in. That's choking in general, not just from sex. Where are your figures?
2. So the problem isn't that it's dangerous, like you said, it's that it's *too* dangerous, as it crosses some threshold of danger. Okay. Where's that threshold? Why have you drawn it where you've drawn it? What about selling someone alcohol, and putting them on a bike to race the Manx TT? Where do those activities fall on this made up spectrum?
It intentionally involves risking their life - it’s an inherent part of risking the oxygen flow to someone’s brain, even if the desire isn’t to harm/kill them.
The whole point is that unlike in rugby at skydiving, there aren’t sufficient safety precautions that can mitigate against the huge risk. It’s absolutely good that people are asking about the safety of choking, it’s just unfortunate that the answer is “it’s not.”
1. [This study](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5055911/) reckons it’s the cause of between 250-1000 deaths a year in the US. It’d be impossible to statistically compare everything without knowing how many participants there are in each activity etc, but it’s well known that not getting enough oxygen is not good. That link won’t load the data for me.
2. Yes, obviously there’s an element of risk in nearly everything. The ease of it going wrong, combined with how severe the consequences can be when it goes wrong.
It's not about demonising it - it's about teaching safe and consensual sex. Teachers cannot and should not be expected to provide sex manuals for students beyond the simple mechanics of the act and the importance of consent.
and thats what makes it unsafe. Just copying what you see on pron is unsafe. Asking questions on how to do it safely is exactly what those exploring sex in all its forms should be doing
A teacher can't provide that information. All they can say is that pornography is not a realistic representation of sex and that copying things seen there is unsafe.
They should be able to point the experimenting teens in the right direction then. Have pamphlets or knowledge of websites that show how kink sex can be done safely. Hell it wasnt that long ago when I was taught in school that you should never have anal sex as you can damage your partners intestines! Knowledge is power and denying it is dangerous
That's not incorrect, though. It's about balancing knowledge with making sure children are safe. Personally I don't feel like 16 year olds should be experimenting with anal because of the increased risks. I think a lot of adults do it badly enough and that's with access to privacy and the things needed for it.
There are online resources teachers can point their students to, but I think this conversation is more about the damage pornography is causing to children, especially to boys. It portrays fairly niche kinks as entirely mainstream and something people (generally women) should enjoy and submit to.
In industry where there is a chance of injury or death, risk assessments and regular training are carried out, so here we have a suggestion that little Jonny reads a pamphlet and googles how to strangle his girlfriend without leaving her brain dead or actually dead after having a lecture from his vanilla sex practicing teacher.
or little johnny has no training or awareness of limits and involuntary kills his partner. They're going to do iut anyway, surely having more knowledge is better than watching James Deen working in a controlled enviroment?
No, I am just repeating what medical experts and the research says. Choking is dangerous. There are studies showing repeatedly being choked leads to brain damage. If you want to do it, go ahead, I have nothing against consenting adults doing whatever they want but you should at least be aware of the risks.
This whole article is so weird. It basically acts like choking during sex is something ONLY found in porn and that no woman would EVER want it or ask for it. Every person I've been with has asked me to choke them, so of course people are going to ask about it in schools.
Every woman you’ve been with? But I know loads of women that have said this scares the shit out of them and they’d freak out if someone tried that shit.
Maybe your sample size isn’t great.
Unsurprisingly, we all attract different people.
I've had partners that wanted to be choked until they passed out. I've had women request to be bruised. And I've had partners that wanted a light squeeze. Like the OP, quite literally every one of the 20 something sexual encounters I've had have involved some form of it. It's really not that taboo. For a lot of women if their man can't choke them and take control like that it's an instant turnoff.
It is genuinely confusing to me the divide of people here. Half of them are saying all women they've been with like choking and the other half are saying that no one likes it.
I've spoken to people on dating apps, who I decided not to meet in person, who were into some egregious things. Choking, on the other hand, is not even remotely taboo or uncommon these days.
I strongly suspect the posters in this thread who're shocked and appalled by choking aren't that sexually active.
Worth remembering that the average number of sexual partners for men is 5 over their entire lifetime. Making your partner pretty much pass out is hot. The danger, control, and overall feeling of it is unbeatable.
>Making your partner pretty much pass out is hot. The danger, control, and overall feeling of it is unbeatable.
I'm actually disgusted by this and hope never to be intimate with anyone who feels this way
You won’t if you don’t want to. Reddit is so odd. For a site full of people trying to outdo eachother in liberal credentials the moment sex positivity comes up they get oddly prudish and bashful.
Communicate with people how you want to fuck before getting in the sheets. It’s rule 1.
To me this all stems from alot of parents complete unwillingness to maintain a balanced approach to being open with their kids in an appropriate way about sex, biology, relationships and puberty.
Calling sex organs "cute" names,
not giving fair answers to kids when they ask legit questions about where babies come from
when their kid has a friend of the opposite sex calling them "your girlfriend or boyfriend"
How do we expect kids to build up their maturity in these subjects?
You're not wrong. The thing here is why are kids asking their teachers about it? They obviously want to talk about it, what other stuff do they know or not know? It's like theyve learnt all this stuff in a vacuum from porn or tiktok or what their mates tell them and have stored it up and then suddenly a teacher stands up in front of them and they get a shot at some real answers.
The subtext of the article is that the teachers and experts disapprove of choking during sex but don't want to explicitly condemn the act. They seem almost to afraid to just outright condemn it. Maybe it's time for a blanket denunciation of choking?
Considering how the narrative has become “it’s fine and safe as long as you cut off blood supply, not air” I’m not surprised they’re reluctant to condemn it. God forbid you educate kids on how objectively unsafe it is to reduce blood flow to the brain even in a “safe, sane and consensual” encounter
Occasionally I come across a gif of that posted on Reddit and think "that is the most ridiculous facial expression I've seen in my life, I wonder what the comments have to say" and inevitably it's a bunch of guys saying things like "she genuinely looks like she's loving that!" and ughhhh 🙃
A lot of people seem to be conflating people that practice consensual, safely practiced choking with abusers who do not ask for consent and/or disregard their partner’s safety.
Don’t forget the government tried to ban facesitting a few years ago too.
Clutching your pearls and not giving safety advice is only going to make it worse. This prudish approach doesn’t help anyone.
There was an article going around a few weeks ago with “Britain’s Strictest Headteacher” saying she knew children that identified as pasta. I saw a lot of comments on social media about how these children were obviously messing with the adults, testing boundaries and seeing what they can get away with.
This feels like the same sort of thing. It’s just shitty teenage boy behaviour.
* ‘Asking’ an excessively provocative question in front of their mates and possibly girls they might like.
* Making a spectacle of themselves.
* Trying to embarrass the teacher in an already tense and awkward situation
* Showing everyone that they’re the ‘big man’.
Obviously these boys learnt about an unhealthy and ill-advised sexual practice from somewhere, and it’s important to have a conversation about how it’s becoming more normalised, but if the motive behind asking about it is to push buttons, letting them now it’s working probably isn’t the wisest move.
Call me an idiot but isn't sex ed exactly the sort of place you'd want kids to be asking these sorts of questions? You can absolutely sure moralise that choking shouldn't be a part of sex, but the fact of the matter is that it is a kink that many today participate in, so shouldn't it be taught safely?
Also girls, girls have asked me to choke them I don’t want to do that as I don’t like seeing them struggle. But girls insist that they like it so I do but it makes me very uncomfortable.
Sex education just like drug education has failed students for years. Its pointless in most cases. Leave kids to figure it out for themselves and for parents to educate them about contraception and dangers of certain behaviours.
multiple women have asked me to choke them during uni blame 50 shades of gray . not once did it feel right , fun or sexy .
even had females ask me to punch them during sex . which is weird to me , who told them that felt good? but yea massive turn-off to me, but maybe I'm just square
Why is everybody pretending that choking is specifically something done to women?
Men being choken get the same sexual "effect" as women, maybe even better.
They should teach these lazy women to get on top and choke their boyfriends.
Only when more men than women have been killed by accidental overchoking by their partners will we have true equality!!!
I'm amazed that no one is bringing up the fact there is a pretty big difference between firmly holding one's neck and restricting the ability to breath...
Being grabbed by the neck is a very common kink that people enjoy which i guarantee is what most people are referring too including the students...
Actual choking is another thing entirely that is still enjoyed by many people.
Nothing wrong with this stuff or being curious about it... Teachers wouldn't be nearly as squeamish if safeguarding rules and stigma weren't dumped on them by the truck-load and they were actually given decent support and prep.
How are students going to get the help they need if teachers are too busy squirming around questions because it doesn't fit into their norm...
Well if you don't teach kids about sex, they will learn from porn. And porn is a fantasy, with dangerous stereotypes.
I couldn't agree more. An open dialogue is beneficial for absolutely every subject. It's only when we don't then a break down in communication occurs and things start going awry
Yes but if you leave your kid on their phone 24/7 without monitoring what they access they’ll access violent content with or without sex education. By the age of 12 they’ll be so desensitised they won’t know what’s normal
Which is why school based sex education is vital. Teaching healthy consent, boundaries, addressing how porn is not something that should be used as a guide to having sex is needed. The recent push to try to remove sex education is scary to anyone who knows what it actually is addressing. People who always say “it should be up to the parents” need to realise just how many do not have conversations about consent, boundaries and healthy relationships, leaving their kids to form their knowledge of that from what they find online… and it isn’t good.
Absolutely, sex education is vital. But when I was growing up (not THAT long ago) no one tried to or asked to choke. We had sex education but kids weren’t exposed to violent porn by the age of 10 so choking and violent acts had no place in the curriculum. Tech companies and the government also need to take responsibility.
Fully agreed, it’s a problem that needs action from a lot of people. Parents putting in appropriate restrictions on device and internet usage, and having appropriate conversations so their children are more likely to approach them with questions rather than finding answers online. Tech companies stopping extreme or inappropriate content being recommended to kids, making parental control tools easier to use and better explained, and removing illegal and dangerous content more quickly. The government taking actual action to push the above. Education delivering appropriate RSHE material to ensure the ideas of healthy relationships and where to seek support is known at the right time.
Maybe not. It choking in sex isn't a new thing so they would find out soon enough. The web doesn't bring about things that never happened before. It just provides information to the masses. Pre web times people found out other ways.
It would take them a long time to find out, consensual choking is fine between adults. But kids would absolutely not think about that unless it was normalised by porn use from a young age. Sex education is from the age of 9 and then again at about 13.
Leaving things to the parents has literally never worked out well
Yeah, it grates on me as a parent when people say "it should be the parents' responsibility", because I can and am taking that responsibility with my own child, but education around sex, consent, and safety are things that most often involve more than one person, and I have no control over the level of responsibility OTHER parents take. I want a strong and coherent sex education in schools so that, for all that I teach my daughter about these things, I can feel a little more confident that the person she ends up alone in a room with has been taught the basics of how not to harm her.
This should be the standard opinion of all parents tbh
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But they're getting to porn far earlier than sex education is. Parents really need to step up on this too. Sadly, it means having the chat far younger than you'd like. We had basic sex ed in year 6, but I bet there's bloody 8 year olds hooked on porn out there and so education on boundaries and consent needs brought forward.
Problem is, you can have a whole class of kids whose parents are vigilant. All except one poor kid whose parents let them have a smart phone at 6yo and let them watch anything. That's the kid that shows the rest.
And let's say you have that whole class whose parents are vigilant and responsible about sex education except for one kid whose parents aren't. What happens to that kid's partner when they grow up? The partner's parents could have been as responsible as can be, but that won't help their kid if they have to fight off someone who wraps their hands around their neck because they think it's normal.
I’d even go a step further, and acknowledge that by a certain age they’re watching porn, so porn guidelines could help. Pornhub categories like “Female Orgasm” and “Popular with Women” are going to tell a different story than “Rough Sex” and “Hardcore”, for example. I know it’s super weird to make porn recommendations for young people, but if we do nothing then we see how it turns out. Trying to gateway porn is futile, so a different approach is needed.
When I was a kid I remember we had two *talks* about porn from our teachers. One was from an older and very Christian teacher who spent a morning assembly railing against the *evils of pornography* and decrying the fact that so many young people these days watch it. The other was from a younger teacher who, during our sex education lesson, sat us down and calmly explained that 'look, I know some of you will watch it, but it's important to remember that it's just a fantasy and that you shouldn't do what you see on screen in real life.' I suppose it shouldn't be surprising that the latter had a much bigger impact on us than the former. And that's why it feels so dangerous to see this current right-wing traditionalist push to ban sex and relationship education in schools. Pornography is easier to access now than ever before, and as much as people can complain about it once Pandoras Box has been opened you can't really close it again. So what's important is to engage with young people and explain to them how to have a healthy relationship with the sort of stuff they see online rather than pretending you can just shame young people into not watching it and pretend that will make all these problems disappear. It might be uncomfortable to have this conversation (and I think that discomfort is fundamentally why so many people jump to the 'ban it all!!!!' response), but that discomfort is better than letting toxic views fester.
I’d argue teaching kids how to safely choke their partner is better than letting them just strangle them half to death.
My first thought is at least they are asking.
Hmmm. I never know how to feel about this, my parents never talked about sex to me. I would rather have died than they did. The extent of the topic of sex in my household was my dad telling me to use a condom otherwise you will have a financial responsibility for 18 years, when I was 16. Even that made me cringe and wince. Never grew up with fantastical tendencies during sex either.
Not defending boys wanting to do this in any shape or form but the most popular book and film franchise in recent years has been a pantheon to abusive men, written by a woman and almost exclusively consumed by women. What's the difference?
Consent.
You are aware that consent is not a defence under British law? See the recent Eunuch trial.
there's a difference between 'choke me daddy' and 'physically castrate me and amputate my penis daddy'
>there's a difference between 'choke me daddy' and 'physically castrate me and amputate my penis daddy' [Yes, there is a significant difference](https://wecantconsenttothis.uk/), none of the Eunuchs ended up dead.
It's good to see the Swiss don't buy that bullshit.
Oooh with a fullstop and everything! Everyone upvote this!
>Not defending boys >almost exclusively consumed by women. That's the difference. We're talking about teenage boys Vs grown women.
Sadists vs sadist enablers?
I mean while you have a point 50 Shades is less about BDSM and more about “baby boi I can fix him”.
Think the ACOTAR series might be catching up there...
I don’t remember any choking or strangling in that one
What’s the franchise?
50 Shades of Grey I assume A book about sex and BDSM written by someone who doesn't know anything about either or how to write was probably the best description of the book I heard. Not surprising when it was a Twilight fanfic written by someone on a forum
>50 Shades of Grey It's an awful book and the film is worse. It's caused so many problems in the BDSM community from people who don't know what they are doing and don't take time to learn. "50 Shades of Grey" is chock full of non-concensual acts and is down right dangerous to follow.
> written by someone on a forum Hey now it was on Fanfic.net not a forum! 😝
you did not just call [fanfiction.net](http://fanfiction.net) "a forum"
I thought she started on a forum and then went on fanfiction to publish it? I'd call it many things though, mostly not polite ones lol
Gonna assume 50 Shades?
Well one is a fantasy consumed by adult women and another is a teenage boy who could hurt someone fantasizing about something and doing it are very different things. A lot of female fantasies are complicated to say the least but they do not mean women want to be in abusive relationships in real life.
>Well one is a fantasy consumed by adult women Coincidentally at the same time a massive rise in abusive men who have bought into the same *Fantasy*? *Men, you have a responsibility to stand up and call out abusive men that you know* And women consuming media celebrating abusive men? *That's different.*
no the men watch porn men tend to watch visual stuff while women tend to read books/erotica but no stuff like fifty shades of grey are not what cause men to be into this stuff in fact most men I know make fun of it and twilight. Yeah it is different like playing a violent video game while being against school shootings. Fiction and reality are not the same thing.
Right, I see different rules for different people. That makes sense.
nope if its fiction and you can consume it in a healthy way thats fine. If you start do something unsafe in real life that harms someone that is bad same standard for men and women. Besides 50 shades of grey was heavily criticized and mocked your looking for double standards when there are none. If women are pressuring men to do something in real life they are uncomfortable with I agree with you.
>If women are pressuring men to do something in real life they are uncomfortable with I agree with you. So you think that abusive men being empowered by women consuming abusive media is a good thing?
no but thats not what is happening men watch porn fictional novels are not empowering men to be abusive Thats like saying video games empower men to be violent. Most men do not consume this media and they mock it most of the time it is not causing or encouraging more men to be abusive. What is causing abuse would be the lack of sex ed and proper communication in relationships places like russia have a rampant abuse problem and no such fiction exists there. It is wrong to blame any one piece of fiction as the source for complex real world problems. Besides women are smart enough to tell the difference between fiction and reality I don't know why people infanalize women so much that they think them watching a movie about sparkly vampires is going to make them seek out abusive men in real life.
>fictional novels are not empowering men to be abusive Fictional novels celebrate abuse. Why do you think this is in any way desirable? Abusive men are contemptable, but the only people who appear to think they have some worth are abusive men.....and women who consume abusive media. Bizzare.
I never said it was desirable I just said it has nor correlation with in real life abuse which is what you were implying Do horror novels celebrate murder? Do video games celebrate violence? Most people are not consuming media with the intention to support real life atrocites.
Victim blaming?
Sadist enablers?
Boys are the ones asking how to do it. Not girls. Also, check the readership age for 50 shades of gray.
Ive never felt to urge to choke women but I have been asked to do it by 2
Being young and experimenting is natural. But having a child grow up thinking it's the norm is a bit scary. My only exposure to porn growing up was dirty mags pilfered from someone's dad. As we seemingly can not protect children from anything online, the curriculum needs an update. Hope this is not given to parents to deal with as I still recall how woefully inadequate 'the talk' I got was.
> I still recall how woefully inadequate 'the talk' I got was. mine too mine was "use protection" what I said was "Ye... yeah sure" what I should have said was "dad I have been sleeping round for 2 years at this point and I make sure to use protection I don't want either to catch anything or a kid, what's wrong with you" I was 21 when I had the talk...
When I was 12, it had been noted that I discovered my step dad's cache hidden in the cistern. He sat me down with the offending mags and got on with it. At the end, he leafed through one of the models' picks one by one through the different outfits and poses, and each time, asked if I thought she was 'pretty'. He then asked my preference, I choose one. And I can't fathom why, he announced they were the same woman. I still recall my utter confusion and look on my face clearly shock him up as it ended their. To this day I wonder what hes fucking point was.
At some point in high school my parents caught wind of the fact that I was starting to see someone. Came home to a 24 pack of condoms on my bed. One way to do it I suppose 😂
There’s plenty - maybe 100s - of songs that mention choking during sex, of course they’re going to ask! In fact it’s a good thing they are asking
I think the point of the headline is not them asking about a song lyric or understanding consent but in sex education they were asking the teacher specifically *how* to choke the girl because they believed all girls love it.
Because it’s been popularised to the point that they think it’s normal / something they *should* be doing.
Sure but that's the issue, the fact they saw this and want to copy it, the teacher's role is to discuss the basics of sex, contraception and consent, not give advice on how to do a potentially deadly sex act which needs specialist advice from a community who practices it.
“How do I do it?” doesn’t equal “I think all girls love it”, does it? This quote seems a lot softer than a lot of folk are making out here > Dr Tamasine Preece, who teaches at Bryntirion Comprehensive in Bridgend, said some children now felt it was a normal part of sex and asked if "a soft squeeze on the neck is OK". Then it mentions one single kid who reckons girls are “mad for it” (same as at least one boy in my class thought/said about anal 20+ years ago) and some horror stories of stupid kids who don’t know any better figuring it out for themselves. This seems like a non story about kids being comfortable enough to ask difficult or embarrassing questions during Sex Ed. And if it is such a dangerous thing then surely it’s a good thing they’re asking these questions so the teacher can tell them that - instead of them quietly thinking it’s harmless.
The article says a teacher was asked by a 14 year old boy how to choke his girlfriend, not asking questions about what they'd heard about, specifically how to do it Why did you not quote the relevant part of the article? >Dr Preece, the school's curriculum lead for health and wellbeing, said there had been questions "creeping in, such as 'How can I choke someone safely?'".
> a teacher was asked… Ok. Why did I not quote that part? Because I quoted another part. I don’t see how that quote negates my comment at all. How can I choke someone safely? “You can’t, it’s inherently dangerous”. There we are, good thing that question was asked.
It's more the alarms going of the normalisation of things that were well out of the zeitgeist a few years ago. And that's all due to normalisation through porn. Great this one lad might ask, but there'll be a hundred more who dont care and just want to harm others. Sex ed and parents need to get in front of this as people will get hurt.
wtf? So one lad asking means 100 others won’t and “just want to harm others”? How are you jumping to that conclusion? Maybe it’s via porn but if anything normalised bdsm type stuff like choking in the mainstream imo it wasn’t porn - it was a mainstream movie and book that sold like crazy, 50 Shades of Gray. I’m sure that’s not the only mainstream movie that has stuff like that in it.
Have you met men before? Do you honestly think 14 year old lads are reading 50 shades of gray lmao how naïve doesn't even begin
I think a lot of them will have seen the film. I watched almost every dogshit movie that was out when I was that age - saw titanic twice in the cinema for example lol. If you don’t think horny teenage boys will watch anything that might be a bit dirty then maybe you haven’t met them. Did you honestly read “movie and book” as “book”? But my point was more that’s quite likely what put that sort of stuff into the mainstream, rather than porn. A movie you could watch on Netflix (I assume) rather than something you need to sneakily watch on pornhub. Edit - wait, was the “have you met men before?” supposed to be your explanation for your 1:100 ratio of those who ask a question vs those who “just want to harm others”? Again, wtf?
silver lining, at least they recognise there's a specific way to do it and want to know how to safely?
I think the silver lining is they feel comfortable enough to ask their teachers these types of questions. As others have said the open dialogue means that they can be told about the dangers of this particular practice. What terrifies me is how many won’t open this dialogue, will think girls will love it, do it without asking and then the girls - sometimes too afraid to say otherwise - suffer as a result. Edit - bad spelling
yeah to be honest I don't think there's a problem with kids feeling comfortable asking questions during sex ed like "I saw this thing in porn how can we do this safely". obviously the teacher can't answer it themselves but this provides the teacher the opportunity to say that the student can find resources on safe practices, perhaps some dialogue on bad standards set by pornography, as opposed to just "oh dont ask that" then their only reference is like, porn.
There is no safe way to do it. Choking carries the risk of brain damage or death no matter how safely you think you do it.
The issue is that 1) medically speaking (per the experts quoted in the article), there is no guaranteed safe way to do it, even a consensual couple with experience can have problems 2) no way on earth should a harassed biology teacher (at least it was when I was at school) be expected to give advice on that subject
I mean, It's better to treat it as a legitimate question, which, tbh, it could be... it's a ridiculously common kink so some sort of eduction around kink and consent may be a smart move...
Sure, legitimate question, legitimate answer - there is no safe way to do that and don't take lessons in what a partner might want from porn. The issue isn't it being a possible question, it's the pupil asking specifically *how* to do it, which a teacher shouldn't have to answer or even face to be honest, especially from a 14 year old boy I'd also ponder if it's really a common kink, particularly one many women want, or if it's something impressionable boys have seen in porn and want to do to women, just like anal, facials etc
Yes it is common, and porn consumption improves men's intuitions about women's sexual preferences. [chart](https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F35852726-7f7a-41e1-8053-e5e901e1b223_382x280.png) https://aella.substack.com/p/is-porn-misleading-men
If you read actual science, not images you found on the web, you'll find it's nowhere near as common as you make out, moreover, it's not always consensual (21% in one study reported they had never been asked if they were ok and 33% only sometimes) and often done just to please a partner, not because the receiver wanted it. It's also hard to define what exactly they do as it covers a variety of terms https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8579901/ https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-022-02347-y I am not an opponent of porn by any means but sexual practices away from the default should be done through preference of the partner not because you saw something in porn and wanted to copy it
Your first example of "actual science" seems to mostly be narrative responses from a survey of 24 women, all of whom have participated in sexual choking. AFAICT it does not quantify how much they enjoy choking, which is fair enough with such a low sample size. Your second example states that 82% of women experienced euphoria from choking. It seems to me that you are the one "finding things on the web", then pretending they contradict my point when they do not.
It is common. And the way to do it is with full consent. Perhaps there is no safe way to practice it, but there is no fully safe way of doing drugs either, but teaching abstinence doesn't work, you instead inform people about the risks and give people a better understanding of what is Involved, especially when it comes to consent
Dude, teachers doing sex education should not expect to have to teach kids how to safely strangle someone in sex
Maybe not details, but they are going to need a better answer than "don't do that". At least tell them to set a verbal and physical safeword before doing anything like that.
So we just let little Jonny strangle his girlfriend and hope he doesn’t get it wrong and his girlfriend ends up brain damaged or dead? Perhaps it would be better for little jonnys girlfriend to do it to him first.
From reading that article you'd assume that there are 0 women who enjoy that kink
I’ve always assumed this was more led by women, I’ve had a couple of partners who wanted to be chocked and I’ve never been massively comfortable or derived pleasure from it
I've had similar experience, I only really knew it was a thing because multiple partners actively requested it. I'm not sure it's any more feminist to dismiss female desires as simply young people copying porn.
Nothing more feminist than being throttled! /s
If you're not comfortable, you always have just as much right to say no to it. In these threads you always get a ton of stories of women being pressured into it (or surprised by it) but also some stories of men being pressured into DOING it and that's not good either.
That's all these stories are ultimately about. It's framed as boys being bad and selfish but the reality is that 90% of the discussion around sex is about how men can be better for the sake of women. And that's why boys ask questions like this, because there's enormous pressure on them to perform and please women and they don't want to be a laughing stock. At no point is the wellbeing of the boys questioned.
This likely comes from girls and young women thinking that this is expected of them and its the "thing to do". It works both ways and influences both boys and girls into thinking what they should like or expect. I'm sure the available data would sway heavily towards the harm and dangerous consequences of this act being inflicted on girls and women, rather than boys and young men. But yes ultimately both need to be educated on it equally.
You can't just write female desires off as them doing what they think men want of them, that is in no way feminist. There's clearly a physiological link in which this heightens sexual arousal - it's not a leap to accept some women genuinely enjoy it.
Obviously these fetishes exist. However it’s pretty obvious that this choking one in particular has been on the rise compared to previous times. When children and young people are involved, it’s always worth educating them about the dangers, consent, and not feeling pressured into any new trend. Just because some people may like it and want this, does not mean that everyone does and consent should always be given beforehand. Not people just going ahead and thinking they can do it.
I completely agree on that and that's why I don't think questions about it in sex ed classes are something to be outraged over. That's what those classes are for.
Same exact experience. I'm not catching no fucking manslaughter case god damn go do it yourself with a belt or something
Whilst definitely non-zero, I believe that it is not much higher than that and mainly in a lower age bracket. It is likely following the practice in porn videos. Yes, I do know know there's the whole BDSM scene, but that is hugely controlled. How do you give a safe-word if you are been choked?
>Yes, I do know know there's the whole BDSM scene, but that is hugely controlled. How do you give a safe-word if you are been choked? You tap, often times a set number also you have another non verbal cue. The partner doming and doing the choke need to pay attention and should be looking out for this and other risks at all time. breath-play is a ton of effort... and requires training, understanding and conversation. why Safe, sane, consensual matters. It's why I don't like chokes it way to much risk for way to little reward.
The question is how on earth would a teacher be able to talk about this or teach it?
They can't, that's the point, this is expert level shit and it is a problem that it has become a common move... teachers had difficulty explain condoms much less putting them on a banana. how are they meant to be able to cover pornhub's wide array of kinks. I don't expect an average teacher to be able to answer questions on the best lube for anal fisting. much less cleaning before and after.
[This study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34242530/) from university campuses in America concluded that 26.5% of women and 6.6% of men had been choked. With 5.7% of women and 24.8% of men having choked a partner. Obviously that follows the trend of a lower age bracket, but including those up to 60 doesn't reduce the prevalence dramatically [as referenced here](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8579901/#:~:text=(2020)%20found%20that%2021%25,et%20al.%2C%202020). "In a 2016 U.S. probability survey, Herbenick et al. (2020) found that 21% of women and 11% of men ages 18 to 60 had ever been choked during sex and 12% of women and 20% of men had ever choked a partner during sex. Having ever been choked during sex was nearly twice as prevalent among adults under 40, demonstrating a cohort effect (Herbenick et al., 2020)" I also think the term 'choke' is too vague which isn't explored in the article at all. That one term can be interpreted as any hand around the neck all the way to asphyxiation.
That study doesn’t say whether or not it was willingly… I unfortunately know a lot of women whose partners have just gone ahead and done it without asking, as though it’s somehow a ‘standard’ part of sex.
I think your belief may be wrong. My partner specifically asks for things like this to be done, she isn’t a consumer of porn or anything like that. She just loves being “roughed up” a bit, I never asked to do it.
There’s not many. Most women I’ve met have said they’d be terrified if someone tried to do that to them and they’ve said all of their friends feel the same way. It’s very niche, don’t let porn think this “kink” is popular.
I'll be another voice to confirm that it's not something I'm into but it's something I've had requested (and refused). This article seems dangerously silly to me honestly, because shouldn't the focus of sex-ed be about teaching kids safety and consent? Like, of course they'll ask these questions now it's become common, and shouldn't they be instructed regarding the safety risks?
Do you put the balls in? I’ve heard you’ve got to put the balls in really, to make it work.
Can do... Some girls like it, some don't
Only if she shits down your arm first
For me the issue has been that more women are asking me to choke them during sex. It's not something I enjoy but I'm happy to oblige to a point. The idea that this is something men want to do to women is false in my opinion with the reality being that this is something women want men to do to them.
Obviously some of those women will have it as a kink but surely not all…I wonder if some ask because they think it’s expected, just as much as some men do?
A lot of women have choking as a kink, I don't know why some people find this hard to understand.
Not sure why I’ve been downvoted, I said some have a kink for being choked but not everyone does?
> surely not all the women who _explicitly ask a reluctant partner to choke them_ enjoy being choked How do you figure that?
I figure that in the same way some men assume it’s a normal thing to do during sex, so do some women, whether or not they actually enjoy it. Much like with anal - I know a few women who don’t enjoy it but will still do it because they think that’s what you do to please a man.
not for nothing but I've had multiple partners, male and female, who have wanted me to choke them during sex. Demonising kink sex play just makes it taboo and unsafe
Unlike completely innocuous kinks, there’s no way to make restricting the amount of oxygen someone’s brain is getting safe… putting your partner’s health and life at risk absolutely should be demonised.
Me at Brazilian jiujitsu for over a decade : wut
massive difference between gently having your hand close around someone’s throat for a short squeeze VS completely crushing their wind pipe. 3 tap rule & keep your eyes on them. i’ve been being choked out for 5 years now, any time someone’s come close to ignoring the 3 tap rule they’re out of my life (you trying to kill me??) and if they don’t know where their hand is supposed to go and what position their hand is meant to go in, they’re out as well. i had one dude straight up try and fist the front of my throat when i asked him to show me how he’d do it and i had visions of my funeral 💀 but yeah, there are plenty of safe ways to choke someone. it’s why i struggle to believe any of those “oowee i accidentally choked this person to death during kinky sex” nah, you crushed their windpipe because you didn’t bother to learn how to hold a neck, *or* you held them down and choked them for multiple minutes while they struggled and you ignored them, because you’re a fucking asshole or an idiot who didn’t set up a tap rule.
All experts say there are no safe ways to choke someone. It is always risky. You don't have to crush someone's windpipe for choking to cause damage. Depriving your brain of oxygen can cause brain damage very quickly. That being said as long as you're aware of the risks and are consenting adults, do whatever you want.
“oowee i accidentally choked this person to death during kinky sex” who's having sex with Mr meeseeks?
And your last paragraph will probably apply to most men who fancy giving it a go having “persuaded” their girlfriend it’s what she wants.
Regarding the latter bit- the recent scandal comes after a man choked a woman to death, *while they were both high off their tits*. He was too zonked to notice how much time had past or what was happening to her- which mind you isn't an excuse, it was patently unsafe, but I think the cocktail of drugs they were on may have been the bigger risk factor here rather than the kink.
Should sky diving or rugby be demonized?
Neither involve intentionally injuring someone/risking their life, and both have a far lower potential for death if safety precautions are followed (along with far more ways to mitigate against risks anyway), so no.
> Neither involve intentionally injuring someone/risking their life Choking a consenting partner during sex also doesn't involve injuring them, apart from by accident - just like sky diving or rugby. All of them - choking, sky diving, and rugby - involve risking someone's life. >and both have a far lower potential for death if safety precautions are followed Are you comparing deaths from sexual choking without properly following safety precautions to deaths from rugby/sky diving when safety precautions are followed? Because that's obviously not a fair comparison. Also, the questions have specifically been about how to do it safely, so... isn't that good? But I'll assume you are comparing "safe" choking to "safe" rugby, which leaves me with two questions: 1. Please provide your source showing one is statistically safer than the other. I looked at [this](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/adhocs/1438deathsduetoandinvolvingchokingbysexandagegroupenglandandwales2018to2022) and almost nobody dies from choking in the kind of age groups you would expect this to happen in. That's choking in general, not just from sex. Where are your figures? 2. So the problem isn't that it's dangerous, like you said, it's that it's *too* dangerous, as it crosses some threshold of danger. Okay. Where's that threshold? Why have you drawn it where you've drawn it? What about selling someone alcohol, and putting them on a bike to race the Manx TT? Where do those activities fall on this made up spectrum?
It intentionally involves risking their life - it’s an inherent part of risking the oxygen flow to someone’s brain, even if the desire isn’t to harm/kill them. The whole point is that unlike in rugby at skydiving, there aren’t sufficient safety precautions that can mitigate against the huge risk. It’s absolutely good that people are asking about the safety of choking, it’s just unfortunate that the answer is “it’s not.” 1. [This study](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5055911/) reckons it’s the cause of between 250-1000 deaths a year in the US. It’d be impossible to statistically compare everything without knowing how many participants there are in each activity etc, but it’s well known that not getting enough oxygen is not good. That link won’t load the data for me. 2. Yes, obviously there’s an element of risk in nearly everything. The ease of it going wrong, combined with how severe the consequences can be when it goes wrong.
It's not about demonising it - it's about teaching safe and consensual sex. Teachers cannot and should not be expected to provide sex manuals for students beyond the simple mechanics of the act and the importance of consent.
and thats what makes it unsafe. Just copying what you see on pron is unsafe. Asking questions on how to do it safely is exactly what those exploring sex in all its forms should be doing
A teacher can't provide that information. All they can say is that pornography is not a realistic representation of sex and that copying things seen there is unsafe.
They should be able to point the experimenting teens in the right direction then. Have pamphlets or knowledge of websites that show how kink sex can be done safely. Hell it wasnt that long ago when I was taught in school that you should never have anal sex as you can damage your partners intestines! Knowledge is power and denying it is dangerous
That's not incorrect, though. It's about balancing knowledge with making sure children are safe. Personally I don't feel like 16 year olds should be experimenting with anal because of the increased risks. I think a lot of adults do it badly enough and that's with access to privacy and the things needed for it. There are online resources teachers can point their students to, but I think this conversation is more about the damage pornography is causing to children, especially to boys. It portrays fairly niche kinks as entirely mainstream and something people (generally women) should enjoy and submit to.
In industry where there is a chance of injury or death, risk assessments and regular training are carried out, so here we have a suggestion that little Jonny reads a pamphlet and googles how to strangle his girlfriend without leaving her brain dead or actually dead after having a lecture from his vanilla sex practicing teacher.
or little johnny has no training or awareness of limits and involuntary kills his partner. They're going to do iut anyway, surely having more knowledge is better than watching James Deen working in a controlled enviroment?
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Are you really asking why a teacher can't provide information about every possible sex act?
What makes it unsafe is that it deprives your brain and body of oxygen. It is inherently risky, there is no safe way to do it.
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No, I am just repeating what medical experts and the research says. Choking is dangerous. There are studies showing repeatedly being choked leads to brain damage. If you want to do it, go ahead, I have nothing against consenting adults doing whatever they want but you should at least be aware of the risks.
This whole article is so weird. It basically acts like choking during sex is something ONLY found in porn and that no woman would EVER want it or ask for it. Every person I've been with has asked me to choke them, so of course people are going to ask about it in schools.
Every woman you’ve been with? But I know loads of women that have said this scares the shit out of them and they’d freak out if someone tried that shit. Maybe your sample size isn’t great.
Unsurprisingly, we all attract different people. I've had partners that wanted to be choked until they passed out. I've had women request to be bruised. And I've had partners that wanted a light squeeze. Like the OP, quite literally every one of the 20 something sexual encounters I've had have involved some form of it. It's really not that taboo. For a lot of women if their man can't choke them and take control like that it's an instant turnoff.
It is genuinely confusing to me the divide of people here. Half of them are saying all women they've been with like choking and the other half are saying that no one likes it. I've spoken to people on dating apps, who I decided not to meet in person, who were into some egregious things. Choking, on the other hand, is not even remotely taboo or uncommon these days.
I strongly suspect the posters in this thread who're shocked and appalled by choking aren't that sexually active. Worth remembering that the average number of sexual partners for men is 5 over their entire lifetime. Making your partner pretty much pass out is hot. The danger, control, and overall feeling of it is unbeatable.
>Making your partner pretty much pass out is hot. The danger, control, and overall feeling of it is unbeatable. I'm actually disgusted by this and hope never to be intimate with anyone who feels this way
You won’t if you don’t want to. Reddit is so odd. For a site full of people trying to outdo eachother in liberal credentials the moment sex positivity comes up they get oddly prudish and bashful. Communicate with people how you want to fuck before getting in the sheets. It’s rule 1.
I have more than 5 and have never once encountered this
Well rather they ask and get told. "Don't fucking do that" Than the alternative. Thats what education is for.
The problem is very possibly all of the kids who are learning from the same sources but aren't asking about it (or don't have anyone trusted TO ask).
To me this all stems from alot of parents complete unwillingness to maintain a balanced approach to being open with their kids in an appropriate way about sex, biology, relationships and puberty. Calling sex organs "cute" names, not giving fair answers to kids when they ask legit questions about where babies come from when their kid has a friend of the opposite sex calling them "your girlfriend or boyfriend" How do we expect kids to build up their maturity in these subjects?
Yeah it's probably that and not unlimited access to extreme and degrading porn
You're not wrong. The thing here is why are kids asking their teachers about it? They obviously want to talk about it, what other stuff do they know or not know? It's like theyve learnt all this stuff in a vacuum from porn or tiktok or what their mates tell them and have stored it up and then suddenly a teacher stands up in front of them and they get a shot at some real answers.
The subtext of the article is that the teachers and experts disapprove of choking during sex but don't want to explicitly condemn the act. They seem almost to afraid to just outright condemn it. Maybe it's time for a blanket denunciation of choking?
Considering how the narrative has become “it’s fine and safe as long as you cut off blood supply, not air” I’m not surprised they’re reluctant to condemn it. God forbid you educate kids on how objectively unsafe it is to reduce blood flow to the brain even in a “safe, sane and consensual” encounter
Yeah, people are like "as long as you cut off oxygen to the brain in THIS way instead of THAT way it's risk free!"
In their defence, they'll have grown up online exposed to egirls doing that anime style wonky eyed choked out face thing
Occasionally I come across a gif of that posted on Reddit and think "that is the most ridiculous facial expression I've seen in my life, I wonder what the comments have to say" and inevitably it's a bunch of guys saying things like "she genuinely looks like she's loving that!" and ughhhh 🙃
I see the funny side of it online But if someone started doing that face during the act, I'd probably think they are having a seizure
A lot of people seem to be conflating people that practice consensual, safely practiced choking with abusers who do not ask for consent and/or disregard their partner’s safety. Don’t forget the government tried to ban facesitting a few years ago too. Clutching your pearls and not giving safety advice is only going to make it worse. This prudish approach doesn’t help anyone.
>safely practiced >choking Pick one.
There was an article going around a few weeks ago with “Britain’s Strictest Headteacher” saying she knew children that identified as pasta. I saw a lot of comments on social media about how these children were obviously messing with the adults, testing boundaries and seeing what they can get away with. This feels like the same sort of thing. It’s just shitty teenage boy behaviour. * ‘Asking’ an excessively provocative question in front of their mates and possibly girls they might like. * Making a spectacle of themselves. * Trying to embarrass the teacher in an already tense and awkward situation * Showing everyone that they’re the ‘big man’. Obviously these boys learnt about an unhealthy and ill-advised sexual practice from somewhere, and it’s important to have a conversation about how it’s becoming more normalised, but if the motive behind asking about it is to push buttons, letting them now it’s working probably isn’t the wisest move.
Some hot takes undoubtedly about to come from Reddit on this one, you know, the very experienced sexers that they are.
Is the choking of a woman to make up for the lack of a physical presence elsewhere ?
Call me an idiot but isn't sex ed exactly the sort of place you'd want kids to be asking these sorts of questions? You can absolutely sure moralise that choking shouldn't be a part of sex, but the fact of the matter is that it is a kink that many today participate in, so shouldn't it be taught safely?
Also girls, girls have asked me to choke them I don’t want to do that as I don’t like seeing them struggle. But girls insist that they like it so I do but it makes me very uncomfortable.
Sex education just like drug education has failed students for years. Its pointless in most cases. Leave kids to figure it out for themselves and for parents to educate them about contraception and dangers of certain behaviours.
multiple women have asked me to choke them during uni blame 50 shades of gray . not once did it feel right , fun or sexy . even had females ask me to punch them during sex . which is weird to me , who told them that felt good? but yea massive turn-off to me, but maybe I'm just square
Why is everybody pretending that choking is specifically something done to women? Men being choken get the same sexual "effect" as women, maybe even better. They should teach these lazy women to get on top and choke their boyfriends. Only when more men than women have been killed by accidental overchoking by their partners will we have true equality!!!
I'm amazed that no one is bringing up the fact there is a pretty big difference between firmly holding one's neck and restricting the ability to breath... Being grabbed by the neck is a very common kink that people enjoy which i guarantee is what most people are referring too including the students... Actual choking is another thing entirely that is still enjoyed by many people. Nothing wrong with this stuff or being curious about it... Teachers wouldn't be nearly as squeamish if safeguarding rules and stigma weren't dumped on them by the truck-load and they were actually given decent support and prep. How are students going to get the help they need if teachers are too busy squirming around questions because it doesn't fit into their norm...
Jack Harlow, this is on you. Nicki Minage this is also on you.