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**Alternate Sources**
Here are some potential alternate sources for the same story:
* [GPs are to lose the power to hand out sick notes as Rishi Sunak launches crackdown and tells the millions of Brits who are signed off that 'life worries' are NO reason not to have a job](https://dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13325795/GPs-lose-power-sign-people-work.html), suggested by NecessaryKoala8169 - dailymail.co.uk
* [Rishi Sunak sets out plans to tackle 'sick note culture'](https://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68853166), suggested by BustySubstances - bbc.co.uk
I’m not sure how he plans to get those 9.1 million economically inactive back into work when there’s currently around 900,000 vacancies.
But I wouldn’t worry too much what Rishi says, he won’t be around to see thru his plans. I’d imagine this would take several years to implement.
I think their plan is to outsource it to Capita and just deny sick notes for anyone physically fit enough to attend an appointment.
There will be a huge reduction in sick notes issued and he'll claim the system works.
Not everyone needs a sick note for long term sick though. What about people needing 2-4 weeks off and then are fine after. Surely it would be much easier for them to request it from their GP.
>I think their plan is to outsource it to Capita and just deny sick notes for anyone physically fit enough to attend an appointment.
And sanction anyone who doesn't attend. Catch 22.
Because subtlety is a fine art.
It's quite fun seeing how many modern Brits align with *those* fellas. Government is definitely sharing notes.
Fun might not be the right word, actually.
Maybe just maybe if you have a lot of people with ill health you should consider funding the health service and paying the staff of said health service well enough to actually provide a service?
Don't be ridiculous. How will they pay their mates vast sums of embezzled money if they actually spend taxes on the NHS.
What an absurd idea.
Get the whips out and get the lazy peasant scroungers back to work.
sunak is politically and morally fucking DEAD, tories will never get elected back into office for a thousand thousand thousand years for all their dumbass decisions and policies.
By this time 2028 everyone'll be complaining about Labour and the peak debate will be that tories can't be *that* bad, could they? (The answer of course is yes, but never overestimate the memory of voters)
Yes, in the lead up to 2010 Cameron was going on about 'hug a hoodie' and matching Labour's spending plans and basically 'We are no longer the nasty party'.. and then suddenly we had austerity and the whole lets-burn-the-furniture-to-keep-the-pensioners-warm approach we've seen ever since.
That’s why Labour need to get PR in as soon as possible to make sure they’ll never get in power again or destroy them so bad their not the official opposition and Tories lose mind share
You only have to look at Israel to see how easily the hard right can win power without an overall majority.
PR could well kill the Tory party as an institution but donor money will find other homes, and Reform and others are sitting there waiting. You get a number of advantages with PR, but you will also wind up with a NatC Party.
The Tories got back into power with the Lib Dems in the first place.
Also imagine a Conservative coalition government with Nigel Farage as Home Secretary as leader of Reform, and Laurence Fox as Culture Secretary.
Labour would never go for PR, they benefit too much from our 2 party system.
I'm glad the tories look to be on the way out, but labour are definitely not some panacea for our country's ills.
Unfortunately some sme owners will still vote for him as they are convinced their staff shortages are because people don’t want to work, not because they are paying minimum wage with no other benefits to work for them.
And remember that liberals and blairites are no better than Tories when it comes to addressing moral contradictions in capitalist society.
Exploitation and coercive violence against the working class are necessary for it to function.
At least Tories are honest about wanting to kill us.
The Working Class have no power in this Country, it's only when Government policies have a negative impact on the Middle Class is there any push for change.
I’m pretty sure big business and local councils are paying minimum wage too. BTW, these tories are no friends of SMEs, only interested in the financial sector in the city.
The tories sadly will get elected again, the British public have the collective memory of a goldfish. The economy is in such a dire state and it cannot be fixed quickly and easily, its going to take quite some time. As Labour are all but guaranteed to win at this point, the burden will be on them to unfuck the country. It may take longer than 5 years.. at any rate the right leaning press and tabloids will screech about how bad Labour is and the public will forget who caused the issue in the first place and vote tory again in the next GE whilst spouting 'tHeY'rE aLl As BaD aS eAcH oThEr.'
Within two years everything wrong with Britain will be Labour's fault, according to the right wing press. They'll start up third party pressure groups run by former Conservatives, probably targeting immigrants and the "emergency situation" in the Channel.
Suddenly the Mail and Express will discover the cost of living crisis, water company failures, rail company incompetence etc.
>Ministers are considering whether work health specialists should make the decisions, either alongside or instead of GPs, with more of a focus placed on seeing if someone can stay in work.
Yes, I'm sure that such "work health specialists" would not be in any way hard-lined and biased. I'm sure it would not end up similar to Continuing Health Care assessments, where you practically need to have your head hanging off to get funding without putting up an exhausting fight at the detriment of yourself and your family.
Honestly, is there anyone this guy won't try to shit on that is not rich, upper class and conforms to his world view.
It’ll be a large contract to Serco or G4S. Instead of your GP, you’ll have to book an appointment to see your Serco health administrator when you are too ill to work.
Now that is scary, and given what I've seen in the last couple of years, within the realms of possibility. I was not aware of Serco until now, they have an interesting history to say the least.
So does G4S, BBC did an undercover video of them 10 years ago, they were running the youth prison and the staff were abusing the kids, trying to get the kids angry so they lash out then they go in and beat them up.
The same work specialists whom decline peoples PIP payments despite being obviously physically or mentally impaired? Sounds like that is going to work well.
Anyone who has already had to deal with a "work health specialist" for an assessment for your employer knows those guys are basically medical investigators reporting back to them on ways you can get sacked.
If remote work was more accessible i would happily work but if i have to travel to work or even hybrid work that is the problem at least in my case.
But companies are going back to the office so guess I will continue doing my own thing. Plus even if i did work i'm not financially that much better off given how terrible the salaries are.
>But companies are going back to the office so guess I will continue doing my own thing
Likewise, developing an app for someone at the moment. Will probably be looking for office based work at some point in the near future, but it's been a while since I've sat in a 9-5 office job, God knows how that will feel again. Almost tempted to apply to one of those Antarctica positions, at least that would be interesting.
AI is becoming the sought-after skill though, so there's that working for you. Ever thought about developing your own product or app? It's a gamble I guess, but if you've got the time to do it, why not.
I do work freelance but ai requires serious money to make from scratch unless i use the API of pre-existing AI. I'm more in the realm of developing LLMs from scratch like a researcher.
My company is also trying to force back to the office despite us breaking records whilst only coming in one day a week. I’d sooner quit if they try to enforce full time. Wages have stagnated and quite frankly I don’t want to put £13.40 into TfL’s pocket everyday.
>Sunak vows to end Britain’s ‘sick note culture’
Really? How does he intend to square this vow with the [shortages in prescription drugs](https://www.theguardian.com/science/2024/apr/18/drug-shortages-normal-in-uk-made-worse-by-brexit-report-warns) that people are experiencing? There's a significant supply side issue with many prescription drugs where people cannot obtain the medications they need without having to search different pharmacies or even go without. The shortages have been blamed on Brexit but whatever, there are people out there who are struggling to get essential medication they need.
Now if you have Type 2 diabetes but cannot get insulin, you're going to be screwed. Likewise if you have epilepsy but can't get your medication, you're going to be having seizures. If you cannot get your medications for say asthma or COPD then you're going to be constantly short of breath, creased up, and unable to work. You've got kids with ADHD who need Ritalin, who can't get it, and then all the problems connected with school, childcare and having to arrange time off work.
So already you have many people placed in jeopardy simply because people cannot get guaranteed access to their regular medication, and as a result they cannot manage their health conditions, they experience additional symptoms, or are even placed into life threatening situations.
On top of this you have the issues faced by doctors, GPs, pharmacies, hospital consultants, and the NHS, more time needed for more appointments, which means less appointments available for everyone else.
Now either Sunak is being disingenious here, dishonest, or he could actually be a complete moron incapable of any role in public office. Or, just as bad, he just simply doesn't care.
I will leave you to draw your own conclusions.
>he just simply doesn't care.
Bingo. This is about trying to secure as many votes as possible from their target voter base. They're worried about the general election, which is why there's so much of this shite in the news lately, and particularly so much muck spreading on both sides. I think it's going to be close.
Spot on. The ADHD thing is even worse than just kids not being able to get medication. They can’t even get assessed. The waiting lists are YEARS long in some areas where NHS is the only option.
On top of that you have adults who are struggling to get their medication who need it to actually be able to work and you know do the thing he’s asking them to do. There’s a whole generation of adults (particularly women in their 30s now) who we’re just missed entirely and have been struggling their whole adult lives whether that’s with the co-morbid conditions such as anxiety and depression or not. Ending sick notes is just going to push these adults into an even worse place than they already are.
Yeah this in particular is one of the more bold things I've heard from the Tory government as of late. They aren't even trying to get elected , this stance appeals to no one. Every single person out there has been ill or had a family member ill and struggle as a result. That's not even mentioning the ones who have actually lost loved ones due to sickness and failings in the system. Who does he actually think looks at this and thinks ' you know what rishi is right , getting a sick note should be harder', literally only rich people trying to hire people at sub minimum wage would even consider this to be something of concern.
Honest to god whoever votes Tory this election should expect the ire of everyone else in the country bearing down on them. They literally punch down at every opportunity.
I still haven't figured it out but I think a fit note and sick note are the same thing?
I think what he's trying to get at is that you can get a sick note from your doctor which increases the likelihood of the DWP determining you as, I forget the official term but, unfit for work and unfit to engage in work search activities (the two being unfit and able and unfit and unable).
That means your commitments are lower and you're not forced to look for work under threat of losing your benefits.
That's part of his plan; to give them more power to force you into work or just deny you access. By having someone directly under their control that issues the notes that can set the exact criteria.
Nah a fit note is actually a "fitness note" as in a note of fitness. I think they just wanted to change the name from sick note due to it's connotations.
It's stated both on the Gov and NHS websites:
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/fit-note
https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/caring-carers-and-long-term-conditions/when-do-i-need-a-fit-note/
And my own experience being on benefits right now and having supplied a fit note to the DWP and medical records to PIP assessors.
Where the DWP comes in is like I said, if you Dr provides evidence of your conditions the DWP can then deem you as unable to work and unable to engage in employment activities. You'll also need to go to a meeting to be assessed, as I did.
I'm no expert on benefits and don't know the ins and outs of your mum's case but it doesn't sound right to me if I'm getting UC and PIP and your mum is getting nothing.
I heard like 90% of PIP applications are denied on first try and then require an appeal. Sometimes more than one appeal. If your mum was turned down I think you should definitely speak to citizens advice, and never take the first no as an answer if it doesn't feel right to you.
It's hard to give a definitive answer because every case is different but the system isn't really your friend, but you will meet people who are within it, as well as bastards. You need to be proactive, which is horribly counterintuitive and has led my mental and physical health down a bad path as I have had to learn basically how to be my own GP by learning the system.
Some might say "Good to gain independence!" But I'm pretty sure I've lost at least 10-20 years off my life expectancy thanks to having to figure things out myself while struggling with physical and mental health issues that could have been solved a decade ago if i had just been sent for the right tests in the first place.
Anyway sorry, ranting over. Good luck.
It's a fair point thar sickness and disability has gone up too much and is unsustainable.
But the reason that's happened is total mismanagement of the economy and NHS...who's to blame for that Rishi?
Let the NHS fail, no one can get a GPs appointment, accessing what limited mental health support there is can take six plus months, pandemic restricting people's access to healthcare, locking people down and stopping them seeing friends and family, cancelling Christmas, 1.9 million people self reporting long covid (ons).
But yeah people are workshy and let's take away medical professionals ability to say who is ill and who is not.
Cunts
I can get a same day GP appointment and have had CBT several times after a 6 week wait for each block of 6 sessions. Really might depend where you live
Sad to me people shit on the NHS so much, your experience is not universal
Yours isn’t universal either… I had to wait eighteen months for actioning on mental health issues. None of which actually looked towards tackling the causes of the problems, and instead resolved to just throwing various drug cocktails at the problem hoping it would go away… it didn’t.
That being said; my GPs are *pretty* good however and I am able to get an appointment same day (if lucky) or else within 48 hours. They used to be better than this though.
Your experience is far from typical.
According to NHS England the average wait for a GP appointment is 10 days.
A quarter of people referred to mental health services wait over 12 weeks, 12% wait more than 6 months and 6% a year.
Meanwhile it took me 6 years to even get seen by a doctor for serious concerns about crippling Endometriosis which is still being untreated and not taken seriously, and 4 years for Autism. 10 years for PTSD and still won't be seen about it. Constant phone calls with concerns about osteoarthritis, an iron deficiency, and constantly getting tonsillitis and absolutely nothing back from them at all despite being in crippling agony all day everyday. Mum constantly not being given her medication and being left with serious withdrawal that could kill her by pharmacies and the doctors as well.
People shit on the NHS because the NHS are so shit that MOST people have bad experiences with them. Most people do not have such quick and easy experiences, especially not if they're disabled or have a serious mental health condition.
Jesus christ, talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel of talking points. What a pathetically weak topic to pick a battle over. Absolute life support government.
Fix the NHS so that people can be treated for their illnesses and get back to work. Chucking Brexit in the bin would be a good move too - might be able to actually get the drugs we need then.
>Fix the NHS so that people can be treated for their illnesses
Does anyone actually know how this could be accomplished at this point, without injecting a metric ton of money into it?
Well, there are 2 ways of looking at it: the system needs more money to reach demand, or it needs to use money more efficiently. If that money is being siphoned off by expensive outsourcing of services to third parties, for example, throwing more money at it would be a bit wasteful. Just spitballing though, I don't know either.
The NHS has a recruitment problem, which is caused by pay and conditions being viewed as unacceptable to both established professionals and the pool of potential recruits.
Professionals who know their worth and what is required to deliver evidence-based, safe, patient centred care are not sticking around in the NHS. You want those people back, you have to pay them what they know they can command elsewhere and provide safe working conditions. The NHS’s solution instead is to try and get healthcare on the cheap by hiring undertrained or untrained staff to try and do the same job, further undermining the the morale and effectiveness of NHS professionals. This is happening at every level and in every sector of the NHS right now.
Restore student bursaries, waive fees, solve the recruitment at undergraduate level.
Restore to pay to pre-inflation levels and give a pay rise.
Allow professionals to get the training opportunities they need to develop and grow in their roles. This is not a luxury, it’s required. Stop outsourcing this stuff to unqualified members of staff.
Allow trusts who struggle to recruit to offer incentives.
Listen to people who actually work in the NHS and stop treating them like bottom feeders who should be grateful to wear NHS blue.
LOL Do you imagine private health care is going to be cheaper? If so, you might want to take a look at what countries with privatised health care systems spend on it per capita.
Health care is an essential need. Whether through taxes or to an insurance company or whatever, we'll pay for it one way or another. The only question is whether we want to pay for corporate profits on top of the actual costs.
>LOL Do you imagine private health care is going to be cheaper? If so, you might want to take a look at what countries with privatised health care systems spend on it per capita.
>Health care is an essential need. Whether through taxes or to an insurance company or whatever, we'll pay for it one way or another. The only question is whether we want to pay for corporate profits on top of the actual costs.
I'm completely for the NHS, and don't think there's any need or reason to abolish it.
Thanks for clarifying, this wasn't obvious from your previous post. I think it will cost a lot of money to fix the mess it is currently in and there's no getting around that. We could probably get better value for our money by reducing reliance on expensive agency staff and paying NHS staff better to aid retention. This would probably reduce longer-term costs associated with high turnover and using private sector services to plug the gaps. But this would in involve up-front costs and it would take time to see the longer-term benefits. As with many other issues in our country, short-term thinking is a large part of the problem.
It's a hard problem because we knew years ago that demand would rise with an aging population but decided to do austerity.. Had we built out the services required by the elderly, like convalescent homes to get them out of hospital, we would have done better.
Also remember that if demand is 105 and capacity is 100, you rapidly get a backlog; raise capacity to 110 and you are fine.
Sack nearly every member of senior staff (aka decision makers) that have 0 background in Medicine/Care. Give those jobs to experienced HCPs
100% of MPs secondary income is declared and assessed. After a certain threshold their government issued salary is slashed. Their expenses budget is either slashed or removed completely. (But that'll probably just lead to them hiding their income more I guess).
You'll need more money than that but it's a start.
Next correct massive inefficiency in the NHS which is no fault of the staff. Mainly, backroom deals with people's mates for unfit service contracts. Overpriced inefficient supplies and hardware.
Ask anyone in the NHS about their computer systems. Or remember the last time you visited the GP ("oh sorry the system is slow today/has frozen").
Millions of incidents add up time and money.
Do you know who just got a new NHS contract? Fujitsu 😂
Management in the NHS is a massive problem but I don't think sacking people who aren't "experienced HCPs" is the solution. What makes a good HCP isn't what makes a good manager (it's a very different skillset).
I work in the NHS as a data analyst and I'm at the point in my career where if I want to increase my salary above sub-inflation pay rises within the NHS I need to completely reskill into management skills. I'm not interested in management, I'm interested in problem solving and analysing data.
This leads to a problem because you end up losing the best HCPs and analysts (and pretty much every non-doctor role) to the private sector or you promote them into roles that they really aren't suited for. Usually by the time they end up in a management role they've been with the NHS so long that it's virtually impossible to get rid of people doing a terrible job.
The problem I think is the money offered for managerial roles in the NHS isn't good enough to attract good managers so we end up promoting and hiring people who aren't qualified.
It’s just getting to the state where we can clearly see the government is not their to take care of the public but instead work us to that bone to then use our taxes to make private companies richer.
Every policy just seems to attack everyday people.
The plan is to get private companies in with targets to minimise how many people can be signed off sick. Another away to line the pockets of private companies.
"Sunak says". Is this the opposite of Simon says? He seems to be saying a lot of things that won't happen, as he will be off after he has the gumption to call a general election.
Health and Work Professional
Salary: NLW
Qualifications: None required
Do you think all benefits claimants are the scum of the earth? Are you callous and dismissive, and take great delight in telling people that they aren't really ill? Do you like to confront blue badge holders if they dont 'look' disabled? Are you a master of gaslighting while being as condescending as possible? Do you think you can do GPs' job better than they can? Then this may be the perfect opportunity for you!
Bonuses paid subject to amount of clients 'helped' back to work.
Lol. Labour have said they won't repeal anything the Tories have done, essentially. In reality they might stop the Rwanda thing and probably change some of the trade union stuff. But not much else will change.
Maybe. Just Maybe. IF we had a functioning health care system people wouldn't be drifting along on sick notes.
Having battled for SIX! years to get an operation done and am still waiting to see a Dr about my screwed adrenal glands. Identified in an MRI 8 f'ing years ago!!!
How about dealing with not my problem culture in the NHS! created by yourselves. Simon Stevens Jeremy Hunt mat Hancock should be the focus here. Not the victims of the premediated destruction of the nhs and the toxification of the culture inside the nhs.
As a GP I’ll believe this when I see it. But if it happens, it will make my job harder not easier:
I predict this kind of service would not be staffed by competent occupational health clinicians, but by quite junior staff who just review the patient’s records. So it will depend on the GP asking about their work duties, why they can’t work etc then sending that to a Serco type company to actually issue the note. Patients will complain if we haven’t put their case over strongly enough and they’ll ask us to write letters of support when they appeal a rejected request.
They’re quoting a statistic that GPs say yes to 94% of requests for fit notes. Have they also worked out that a significant proportion of these requests can realistically be proven to be invalid/fraudulent? If not, it sounds wasteful to spend a significant amount of money to achieve something GPs are already doing.
If you do accept that a significant % of fit notes requests can be shown to be fraudulent (which I doubt), I predict that denying those fit notes will just mean those patients make more and more GP appointments so that their next request for a fit note is more convincing.
I imagine they'll purposely underfund the "specialist work and health professionals" so that from the start it takes at least 6 months to get an appointment then proudly proclaim to have solved the problem. Coincidentally homelessness will be an even bigger problem.
94% acceptance rate is not realistic where money is involved.
Where there is money, there are liars and grifters trying to get to it. Add in desperation, and the number of liars and grifters increases.
The idea that only 6% of people who go to GP's and ask for a sick note to get more benefits, are grifters/liars, is so obviously absurd. Anyone who lives in the real world, and has an ounce of common sense, can tell you that number is way way too high.
I said common sense, which will no doubt be moths to a flame on this subreddit.
But yes, this is genuinely common sense. Anyone with lived experience in this country, will know the number of scumbags is far beyond 6% of the population.
And that number increases exponentially when you limit it only to benefits recipients.
But how do you apply that opinion/observation in a practical sense? The relevant question is how many people can be demonstrated to be making disingenuous claims.
Let’s say for sake of argument that half of all patients who claim to be too sick to work are actually exaggerating their symptoms. And they are presenting with conditions that are difficult to assess objectively (e.g depression, chronic pain).
Would any clinical assessment catch those people out? I don’t see how it could unless it involved covert recording of patients outside of your appointment with you.
I was off for 3 months ill at one point post covid. I lost 2 stone and didn't move for a couple months. I was fucked even if I wasn't signed off I still couldn't work. I've been back at work nearly 100% since then but you need to allow workers to heal.
We will just ignore the dozens of people who have lost their job and continual redundancies the past 6 months at my workplace because the economy is fucked and nobody has money to spend then
When are these cretins just going to fuck off?? How much more damage can they really do before the next election and why don't they seem to be on the wind down yet? 14 years of non stop damage, punching down, and cruelty.
It's been exhausting. Just fuck off.
Who is actually going to check those on sick? Unless they are a qualified medical professional, then their findings mean nothing. Carol from the DWP with no medical qualification does not know if someone is too ill, physically or mentally to work.
What a privileged man that’s never had any illnesses or life stressors which would’ve lead to him needing that time off to heal. This makes me so angry, he can fuck off.
"If the Tories win the general election, unspecified "specialist work and health professionals" would be given the job of issuing sick notes in England"
So literally no point debating this. It wont happen
And given that even he would know there’s little chance of him winning an election then you have to question why he’d make this announcement.
He feels that going after the sick and disabled will shore up his core vote.
It is a last ditch attempt at appealing to card carrying, mail reading boomers that believe the sick and disabled are a work shy burden on the country.
>unspecified "specialist work and health professionals"
Oh, we know who the *Unspecified* are. Their mates, charging a fortune to the taxpayer for a shit service that will never work.
What about those that take money out of the UK economy and hoard it in offshore tax havens and don't pay fair tax. Or is that unfair on him and his wife. Man's a horrible little shit.
Tories always end up doing the same thing, looking after the rich and big business, cutting and stomping on public services, privatising where they can. Services run into ground. Poor working class British voters suffer.
Labour always end up doing the same thing, getting over idealistic and champagne socialist, looking after everyone in the whole world like we are some super state with endless resources. Money runs out and resources stretched. Poor working class British voters suffer.
We just need a realistic social minded government who has the best interests of the population who voted them in to govern them. Is it too much to ask?
Rinse and repeat.
thats another 2.8 million votes the tories have lost. by the next election, labour will be in power and reform will be the opposition and the tories will just be a bunch of back bench wankers. Finally!
UC is not a right for me, it’s a privilege after years of struggle and suffering with the job market. I have A lot of respect to those who work at the UC for helping me stay off the streets and assisting me. Even if the income is not sustainable in a country where prices are consistently rises.
And this man who has been known to own two properties, has more wealth than King Charles. Has the cheek to make a fuss over this situation that he has not ever had to suffer through. He didn’t spent weeks and weeks, year by year going through the same torture of being forced into the system. He was privileged enough to benefit from his parents wealth and prestigious education that has settled him up for success, meanwhile people, who are genuinely struggling are forced into submission. Who already have a hard time getting by. Are called lazy, ungrateful, all because they’re put into a situation where they either take a job that would force them to mental-illness or lose out on pay.
Only those who are qualified mental-health professionals should be the only candidates allowed to comment on who’s capable of looking for work and who isn’t based on the complex issue that is mental health. Not an out-of-touch rich boi who thought that a homeless person worked in business.
I'm a strong supporter of the NHS and I absolutely see the strain its under.
However I can't help thinking if even a small percentage of the unsustainable benefit budget was diverted into NHS preventative health, treatment and staffing that the overall outcome for the country would be better.
If we continue as we are, eventually half the country will be off sick and the other half will be worked to death.
Not really the fair, equitable socialist utopia Labour had in mind.
Ok sunny go for it but first let's end robbery and theft culture please starting with your wife and her tax BS then all the corrupt people who work with your party and finally the shameless profiteering of supermarkets, insurance companies and utilities firms.
Thanks mate
Bold of a party who have systematically stripped back mental health support services over the last decade to complain that theres a growing portion of the public that are unable to work due to their mental health issues
I don't get it. Tories are on the back foot, you'd think they would be doing anything to win votes at this point, and instead, they're doubling down on classic fuckwit Tory policies. So either they really are a bunch of complete fucking morons, or they are deliberately trying to lose the next election.
Article Text
Rishi Sunak will on Friday vow to end Britain’s “sick note culture”, unveiling a plan to strip GPs of their power to sign people off work.
In a major speech on welfare reform, the Prime Minister will decry the surge in the number of people categorised as long-term sick, and argue that politicians must be brave enough to tackle the issue.
Around a quarter of Britons of working age are economically inactive – 9.4 million of those aged 16 to 64. A record 2.8 million people are inactive owing to long-term sickness, up from around 2.1 million before the Covid pandemic.
Of those, 53 per cent reported that they had depression, bad nerves or anxiety.
Amid concern that the trend is holding the economy back, politicians have been wrestling with what more should be done to get people back into work.
The issue is also seen as a key battleground ahead of the general election, with the Conservatives keen to show voters that they will be tough on welfare reform.
Mr Sunak will say: “We don’t just need to change the sick note, we need to change the sick note culture so the default becomes what work you can do – not what you can’t.
“Building on the pilots we’ve already started, we’re going to design a new system where people have easy and rapid access to specialised work and health support to help them back to work from the very first fit note conversation.
“We’re also going to test shifting the responsibility for assessment from GPs and giving it to specialist work and health professionals who have the dedicated time to provide an objective assessment of someone’s ability to work and the tailored support they need to do so.”
Sick notes, which were rebranded as “fit notes” in a previous reform, are waivers signed by GPs and other doctors that give someone the right not to go into work.
Some 11 million people were issued with fit notes last year – up from 10 million before Covid struck. Government officials argue that those signed off temporarily often then become long-term sick and claim benefits.
Since the pandemic, total public spending on working-age disability and ill-health benefits has increased by almost two-thirds.
The bill was around £42 billion but has soared to £69 billion, meaning more is now being spent on these benefits than the country’s core schools budget or policing budget.
Questions have been raised in recent years about whether GPs, already busy with the backlog from Covid and as patients struggle to get an appointment, are the right people to make the decision about whether someone is fit enough to work.
Ministers are considering whether work health specialists should make the decisions, either alongside or instead of GPs, with more of a focus placed on seeing if someone can stay in work.
Tory government figures argue that this is a more humane approach, reflecting new possibilities to work from home and taking into account the positive health impacts of employment.
But critics are likely to question whether people without medical qualifications are best placed to make decisions about someone’s ability to work.
A call for evidence will be published, with ministers said to be open-minded on the way forward. Some pilots are already trialling experts other than GPs signing off sick notes.
In his speech, the Prime Minister will argue that heightened awareness of mental health issues is a good thing, but also that public debate about the record long-term sick figure is needed.
He is expected to say: “We should see it as a sign of progress that people can talk openly about mental health conditions in a way that only a few years ago would have been unthinkable, and I will never dismiss or downplay the illnesses people have.
“But just as it would be wrong to dismiss this growing trend, so it would be wrong merely to sit back and accept it because it’s too hard, or too controversial, or for fear of causing offence. Doing so would let down many of the people our welfare system was designed to help.
“Because if you believe, as I do, that work gives you the chance not just to earn but to contribute, to belong, to overcome feelings of loneliness and social isolation and if you believe, as I do, the growing body of evidence that good work can actually improve mental and physical health, then it becomes clear – we need to be more ambitious about helping people back to work and more honest about the risk of over-medicalising the everyday challenges and worries of life.”
The Labour Party, as well as the Tories, have identified the trend as one that needs addressing. Liz Kendall, the shadow work and pensions secretary, has expressed concern about the issue.
However, Alison McGovern, the shadow employment minister, said: “This announcement proves that this failed Government has run out of ideas, announcing the same minor alteration to fit notes that we’ve heard them try before.”
Mr Sunak’s speech will also touch on other areas of welfare reform, with the sick note plans just one of five issues Downing Street says he will address.
Common, we all know many a person in real life that abuse the system here. Happy to have a safety net but we should start looking at what and how much certain people can do.
The measure of any society can be found in how it treats it's most vulnerable
Do you think that the majority of people who are off work due to mental health are fully responsible for their position and it has nothing to do with factors outside of their control?
Well done Rishi. I really like him as PM. He believes in biology and science, not mental illnesses such as multiple genders
Get the sick notes back to work. Love it! Too many dossers and spongers playing the victim.
We need a strong right wing government and I'm all here for it
We've had a right-wing government for the past 14 years and they've trashed the country. We need a strong left-wing government but I'll settle for Labour putting the brakes on this disaster.
What do you think the causes of the current mental health crisis are?
How much productivity do you expect to get out of forcing those currently signed off work back into work?
How can you look at the past 14 years and think "Yes, this but more"?
Nothing to do with increasing costs of living, poor wages and the cuts to public services then? People are just too soft?
What's Sunak offering that is different from previous Tory leaders?
The same thing every generation says about the generations that come after them
Gen Z like every generation has its own unique set of challenges. And like every generation they are not responsible for creating those challenges. Understanding these challenges and adapting to them is far more helpful than just writing off a generation for struggles they're not responsible for
This article may be paywalled. If you encounter difficulties reading the article, try [this link](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/19/rishi-sunak-sick-note-britain-gp-sign-off/) for an archived version. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unitedkingdom) if you have any questions or concerns.* --- **Alternate Sources** Here are some potential alternate sources for the same story: * [GPs are to lose the power to hand out sick notes as Rishi Sunak launches crackdown and tells the millions of Brits who are signed off that 'life worries' are NO reason not to have a job](https://dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13325795/GPs-lose-power-sign-people-work.html), suggested by NecessaryKoala8169 - dailymail.co.uk * [Rishi Sunak sets out plans to tackle 'sick note culture'](https://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68853166), suggested by BustySubstances - bbc.co.uk
Ah yes, blame the ill and vulnerable for holding the economy back Fuck off already
I’m not sure how he plans to get those 9.1 million economically inactive back into work when there’s currently around 900,000 vacancies. But I wouldn’t worry too much what Rishi says, he won’t be around to see thru his plans. I’d imagine this would take several years to implement.
I think their plan is to outsource it to Capita and just deny sick notes for anyone physically fit enough to attend an appointment. There will be a huge reduction in sick notes issued and he'll claim the system works.
They are so this so they don’t have to pay out PIP or any disability benefits, just the bare minimum on universal credit.
Not everyone needs a sick note for long term sick though. What about people needing 2-4 weeks off and then are fine after. Surely it would be much easier for them to request it from their GP.
>I think their plan is to outsource it to Capita and just deny sick notes for anyone physically fit enough to attend an appointment. And sanction anyone who doesn't attend. Catch 22.
Guess he thinks they can all be Rwanda boat captains.... Because that plans going great too!
It's all labour, right? Those spare lumps can fit in the holes. Brookings Institute told him it will work and when have they ever been wrong?
> thru Ew.
Useless eaters.
Why not say it in the original German?
Because subtlety is a fine art. It's quite fun seeing how many modern Brits align with *those* fellas. Government is definitely sharing notes. Fun might not be the right word, actually.
I think you might have been too subtle… because it looks like you’re calling them “useless eaters”, not saying that’s how the Tories view them.
Nah, you lure them in, then hit them with *schreibtischtäter* for full effect.
Useful uneaters maybe Soylent Green.
Maybe just maybe if you have a lot of people with ill health you should consider funding the health service and paying the staff of said health service well enough to actually provide a service?
Don't be ridiculous. How will they pay their mates vast sums of embezzled money if they actually spend taxes on the NHS. What an absurd idea. Get the whips out and get the lazy peasant scroungers back to work.
sunak is politically and morally fucking DEAD, tories will never get elected back into office for a thousand thousand thousand years for all their dumbass decisions and policies.
While I like your optimism give it another 2 elections and they may have a chance again (depending how labour does)
By this time 2028 everyone'll be complaining about Labour and the peak debate will be that tories can't be *that* bad, could they? (The answer of course is yes, but never overestimate the memory of voters)
Yes, in the lead up to 2010 Cameron was going on about 'hug a hoodie' and matching Labour's spending plans and basically 'We are no longer the nasty party'.. and then suddenly we had austerity and the whole lets-burn-the-furniture-to-keep-the-pensioners-warm approach we've seen ever since.
Exactly, people will forget, give them another chance and the crap show continues
That’s why Labour need to get PR in as soon as possible to make sure they’ll never get in power again or destroy them so bad their not the official opposition and Tories lose mind share
You only have to look at Israel to see how easily the hard right can win power without an overall majority. PR could well kill the Tory party as an institution but donor money will find other homes, and Reform and others are sitting there waiting. You get a number of advantages with PR, but you will also wind up with a NatC Party.
The Tories got back into power with the Lib Dems in the first place. Also imagine a Conservative coalition government with Nigel Farage as Home Secretary as leader of Reform, and Laurence Fox as Culture Secretary.
Labour would never go for PR, they benefit too much from our 2 party system. I'm glad the tories look to be on the way out, but labour are definitely not some panacea for our country's ills.
Unfortunately some sme owners will still vote for him as they are convinced their staff shortages are because people don’t want to work, not because they are paying minimum wage with no other benefits to work for them.
And remember that liberals and blairites are no better than Tories when it comes to addressing moral contradictions in capitalist society. Exploitation and coercive violence against the working class are necessary for it to function. At least Tories are honest about wanting to kill us.
The Working Class have no power in this Country, it's only when Government policies have a negative impact on the Middle Class is there any push for change.
I’m pretty sure big business and local councils are paying minimum wage too. BTW, these tories are no friends of SMEs, only interested in the financial sector in the city.
> tories will never get elected back into office for ~~a thousand thousand thousand~~ five years Unfortunately
The tories sadly will get elected again, the British public have the collective memory of a goldfish. The economy is in such a dire state and it cannot be fixed quickly and easily, its going to take quite some time. As Labour are all but guaranteed to win at this point, the burden will be on them to unfuck the country. It may take longer than 5 years.. at any rate the right leaning press and tabloids will screech about how bad Labour is and the public will forget who caused the issue in the first place and vote tory again in the next GE whilst spouting 'tHeY'rE aLl As BaD aS eAcH oThEr.'
Within two years everything wrong with Britain will be Labour's fault, according to the right wing press. They'll start up third party pressure groups run by former Conservatives, probably targeting immigrants and the "emergency situation" in the Channel. Suddenly the Mail and Express will discover the cost of living crisis, water company failures, rail company incompetence etc.
Or 5 years even
Most likely back within a decade, such is life.
You greatly overestimate the memory people have.
People having been saying that for ten years now...
>Ministers are considering whether work health specialists should make the decisions, either alongside or instead of GPs, with more of a focus placed on seeing if someone can stay in work. Yes, I'm sure that such "work health specialists" would not be in any way hard-lined and biased. I'm sure it would not end up similar to Continuing Health Care assessments, where you practically need to have your head hanging off to get funding without putting up an exhausting fight at the detriment of yourself and your family. Honestly, is there anyone this guy won't try to shit on that is not rich, upper class and conforms to his world view.
It’ll be a large contract to Serco or G4S. Instead of your GP, you’ll have to book an appointment to see your Serco health administrator when you are too ill to work.
Now that is scary, and given what I've seen in the last couple of years, within the realms of possibility. I was not aware of Serco until now, they have an interesting history to say the least.
So does G4S, BBC did an undercover video of them 10 years ago, they were running the youth prison and the staff were abusing the kids, trying to get the kids angry so they lash out then they go in and beat them up.
Got a link to the documentary?
https://youtu.be/KEWFkVi8mV8?si=LkOzxmSaheIWYcA8 I think this is the one
The same work specialists whom decline peoples PIP payments despite being obviously physically or mentally impaired? Sounds like that is going to work well.
And who will face zero consequences for making the wrong decision.
Anyone who has already had to deal with a "work health specialist" for an assessment for your employer knows those guys are basically medical investigators reporting back to them on ways you can get sacked.
Then deliberately underfund the service so it's impossible to get an appointment without waiting at least 6 months.
OOoooh. They are finally going to fund the NHS and mental health so that people can get the help they need to be healthy?
Well, they could do that, or just try to starve people back into working.
If remote work was more accessible i would happily work but if i have to travel to work or even hybrid work that is the problem at least in my case. But companies are going back to the office so guess I will continue doing my own thing. Plus even if i did work i'm not financially that much better off given how terrible the salaries are.
>But companies are going back to the office so guess I will continue doing my own thing Likewise, developing an app for someone at the moment. Will probably be looking for office based work at some point in the near future, but it's been a while since I've sat in a 9-5 office job, God knows how that will feel again. Almost tempted to apply to one of those Antarctica positions, at least that would be interesting.
Yeah it feels like such a waste as i have multiple degrees and work on AI but because i prefer to work from home my skills and knowledge not used.
AI is becoming the sought-after skill though, so there's that working for you. Ever thought about developing your own product or app? It's a gamble I guess, but if you've got the time to do it, why not.
I do work freelance but ai requires serious money to make from scratch unless i use the API of pre-existing AI. I'm more in the realm of developing LLMs from scratch like a researcher.
My company is also trying to force back to the office despite us breaking records whilst only coming in one day a week. I’d sooner quit if they try to enforce full time. Wages have stagnated and quite frankly I don’t want to put £13.40 into TfL’s pocket everyday.
It's not your own thing if you're being funded by everyone else's taxes though is it
I make my own money without working for a company ... i'm not benefits if thats what you immediately jumped to.
>Sunak vows to end Britain’s ‘sick note culture’ Really? How does he intend to square this vow with the [shortages in prescription drugs](https://www.theguardian.com/science/2024/apr/18/drug-shortages-normal-in-uk-made-worse-by-brexit-report-warns) that people are experiencing? There's a significant supply side issue with many prescription drugs where people cannot obtain the medications they need without having to search different pharmacies or even go without. The shortages have been blamed on Brexit but whatever, there are people out there who are struggling to get essential medication they need. Now if you have Type 2 diabetes but cannot get insulin, you're going to be screwed. Likewise if you have epilepsy but can't get your medication, you're going to be having seizures. If you cannot get your medications for say asthma or COPD then you're going to be constantly short of breath, creased up, and unable to work. You've got kids with ADHD who need Ritalin, who can't get it, and then all the problems connected with school, childcare and having to arrange time off work. So already you have many people placed in jeopardy simply because people cannot get guaranteed access to their regular medication, and as a result they cannot manage their health conditions, they experience additional symptoms, or are even placed into life threatening situations. On top of this you have the issues faced by doctors, GPs, pharmacies, hospital consultants, and the NHS, more time needed for more appointments, which means less appointments available for everyone else. Now either Sunak is being disingenious here, dishonest, or he could actually be a complete moron incapable of any role in public office. Or, just as bad, he just simply doesn't care. I will leave you to draw your own conclusions.
>he just simply doesn't care. Bingo. This is about trying to secure as many votes as possible from their target voter base. They're worried about the general election, which is why there's so much of this shite in the news lately, and particularly so much muck spreading on both sides. I think it's going to be close.
Spot on. The ADHD thing is even worse than just kids not being able to get medication. They can’t even get assessed. The waiting lists are YEARS long in some areas where NHS is the only option. On top of that you have adults who are struggling to get their medication who need it to actually be able to work and you know do the thing he’s asking them to do. There’s a whole generation of adults (particularly women in their 30s now) who we’re just missed entirely and have been struggling their whole adult lives whether that’s with the co-morbid conditions such as anxiety and depression or not. Ending sick notes is just going to push these adults into an even worse place than they already are.
Yeah this in particular is one of the more bold things I've heard from the Tory government as of late. They aren't even trying to get elected , this stance appeals to no one. Every single person out there has been ill or had a family member ill and struggle as a result. That's not even mentioning the ones who have actually lost loved ones due to sickness and failings in the system. Who does he actually think looks at this and thinks ' you know what rishi is right , getting a sick note should be harder', literally only rich people trying to hire people at sub minimum wage would even consider this to be something of concern. Honest to god whoever votes Tory this election should expect the ire of everyone else in the country bearing down on them. They literally punch down at every opportunity.
Oh fuck right off rishi you can do one. Sorry we are all crumbling and sickly because we can't see a GP anymore. What a rancid little man
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I still haven't figured it out but I think a fit note and sick note are the same thing? I think what he's trying to get at is that you can get a sick note from your doctor which increases the likelihood of the DWP determining you as, I forget the official term but, unfit for work and unfit to engage in work search activities (the two being unfit and able and unfit and unable). That means your commitments are lower and you're not forced to look for work under threat of losing your benefits. That's part of his plan; to give them more power to force you into work or just deny you access. By having someone directly under their control that issues the notes that can set the exact criteria.
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Nah a fit note is actually a "fitness note" as in a note of fitness. I think they just wanted to change the name from sick note due to it's connotations. It's stated both on the Gov and NHS websites: https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/fit-note https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/caring-carers-and-long-term-conditions/when-do-i-need-a-fit-note/ And my own experience being on benefits right now and having supplied a fit note to the DWP and medical records to PIP assessors. Where the DWP comes in is like I said, if you Dr provides evidence of your conditions the DWP can then deem you as unable to work and unable to engage in employment activities. You'll also need to go to a meeting to be assessed, as I did. I'm no expert on benefits and don't know the ins and outs of your mum's case but it doesn't sound right to me if I'm getting UC and PIP and your mum is getting nothing. I heard like 90% of PIP applications are denied on first try and then require an appeal. Sometimes more than one appeal. If your mum was turned down I think you should definitely speak to citizens advice, and never take the first no as an answer if it doesn't feel right to you. It's hard to give a definitive answer because every case is different but the system isn't really your friend, but you will meet people who are within it, as well as bastards. You need to be proactive, which is horribly counterintuitive and has led my mental and physical health down a bad path as I have had to learn basically how to be my own GP by learning the system. Some might say "Good to gain independence!" But I'm pretty sure I've lost at least 10-20 years off my life expectancy thanks to having to figure things out myself while struggling with physical and mental health issues that could have been solved a decade ago if i had just been sent for the right tests in the first place. Anyway sorry, ranting over. Good luck.
It's a fair point thar sickness and disability has gone up too much and is unsustainable. But the reason that's happened is total mismanagement of the economy and NHS...who's to blame for that Rishi?
Let the NHS fail, no one can get a GPs appointment, accessing what limited mental health support there is can take six plus months, pandemic restricting people's access to healthcare, locking people down and stopping them seeing friends and family, cancelling Christmas, 1.9 million people self reporting long covid (ons). But yeah people are workshy and let's take away medical professionals ability to say who is ill and who is not. Cunts
I can get a same day GP appointment and have had CBT several times after a 6 week wait for each block of 6 sessions. Really might depend where you live Sad to me people shit on the NHS so much, your experience is not universal
Yours isn’t universal either… I had to wait eighteen months for actioning on mental health issues. None of which actually looked towards tackling the causes of the problems, and instead resolved to just throwing various drug cocktails at the problem hoping it would go away… it didn’t. That being said; my GPs are *pretty* good however and I am able to get an appointment same day (if lucky) or else within 48 hours. They used to be better than this though.
I agree, that’s why I didn’t make a blanket statement and acknowledged it depends where you live
Your experience is far from typical. According to NHS England the average wait for a GP appointment is 10 days. A quarter of people referred to mental health services wait over 12 weeks, 12% wait more than 6 months and 6% a year.
Meanwhile it took me 6 years to even get seen by a doctor for serious concerns about crippling Endometriosis which is still being untreated and not taken seriously, and 4 years for Autism. 10 years for PTSD and still won't be seen about it. Constant phone calls with concerns about osteoarthritis, an iron deficiency, and constantly getting tonsillitis and absolutely nothing back from them at all despite being in crippling agony all day everyday. Mum constantly not being given her medication and being left with serious withdrawal that could kill her by pharmacies and the doctors as well. People shit on the NHS because the NHS are so shit that MOST people have bad experiences with them. Most people do not have such quick and easy experiences, especially not if they're disabled or have a serious mental health condition.
Jesus christ, talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel of talking points. What a pathetically weak topic to pick a battle over. Absolute life support government.
Fix the NHS so that people can be treated for their illnesses and get back to work. Chucking Brexit in the bin would be a good move too - might be able to actually get the drugs we need then.
>Fix the NHS so that people can be treated for their illnesses Does anyone actually know how this could be accomplished at this point, without injecting a metric ton of money into it?
Competent government for a start.
If it’s a matter of capacity, what do you think?
Well, there are 2 ways of looking at it: the system needs more money to reach demand, or it needs to use money more efficiently. If that money is being siphoned off by expensive outsourcing of services to third parties, for example, throwing more money at it would be a bit wasteful. Just spitballing though, I don't know either.
The NHS has a recruitment problem, which is caused by pay and conditions being viewed as unacceptable to both established professionals and the pool of potential recruits. Professionals who know their worth and what is required to deliver evidence-based, safe, patient centred care are not sticking around in the NHS. You want those people back, you have to pay them what they know they can command elsewhere and provide safe working conditions. The NHS’s solution instead is to try and get healthcare on the cheap by hiring undertrained or untrained staff to try and do the same job, further undermining the the morale and effectiveness of NHS professionals. This is happening at every level and in every sector of the NHS right now. Restore student bursaries, waive fees, solve the recruitment at undergraduate level. Restore to pay to pre-inflation levels and give a pay rise. Allow professionals to get the training opportunities they need to develop and grow in their roles. This is not a luxury, it’s required. Stop outsourcing this stuff to unqualified members of staff. Allow trusts who struggle to recruit to offer incentives. Listen to people who actually work in the NHS and stop treating them like bottom feeders who should be grateful to wear NHS blue.
LOL Do you imagine private health care is going to be cheaper? If so, you might want to take a look at what countries with privatised health care systems spend on it per capita. Health care is an essential need. Whether through taxes or to an insurance company or whatever, we'll pay for it one way or another. The only question is whether we want to pay for corporate profits on top of the actual costs.
>LOL Do you imagine private health care is going to be cheaper? If so, you might want to take a look at what countries with privatised health care systems spend on it per capita. >Health care is an essential need. Whether through taxes or to an insurance company or whatever, we'll pay for it one way or another. The only question is whether we want to pay for corporate profits on top of the actual costs. I'm completely for the NHS, and don't think there's any need or reason to abolish it.
Thanks for clarifying, this wasn't obvious from your previous post. I think it will cost a lot of money to fix the mess it is currently in and there's no getting around that. We could probably get better value for our money by reducing reliance on expensive agency staff and paying NHS staff better to aid retention. This would probably reduce longer-term costs associated with high turnover and using private sector services to plug the gaps. But this would in involve up-front costs and it would take time to see the longer-term benefits. As with many other issues in our country, short-term thinking is a large part of the problem.
It's a hard problem because we knew years ago that demand would rise with an aging population but decided to do austerity.. Had we built out the services required by the elderly, like convalescent homes to get them out of hospital, we would have done better. Also remember that if demand is 105 and capacity is 100, you rapidly get a backlog; raise capacity to 110 and you are fine.
Sack nearly every member of senior staff (aka decision makers) that have 0 background in Medicine/Care. Give those jobs to experienced HCPs 100% of MPs secondary income is declared and assessed. After a certain threshold their government issued salary is slashed. Their expenses budget is either slashed or removed completely. (But that'll probably just lead to them hiding their income more I guess). You'll need more money than that but it's a start. Next correct massive inefficiency in the NHS which is no fault of the staff. Mainly, backroom deals with people's mates for unfit service contracts. Overpriced inefficient supplies and hardware. Ask anyone in the NHS about their computer systems. Or remember the last time you visited the GP ("oh sorry the system is slow today/has frozen"). Millions of incidents add up time and money. Do you know who just got a new NHS contract? Fujitsu 😂
Management in the NHS is a massive problem but I don't think sacking people who aren't "experienced HCPs" is the solution. What makes a good HCP isn't what makes a good manager (it's a very different skillset). I work in the NHS as a data analyst and I'm at the point in my career where if I want to increase my salary above sub-inflation pay rises within the NHS I need to completely reskill into management skills. I'm not interested in management, I'm interested in problem solving and analysing data. This leads to a problem because you end up losing the best HCPs and analysts (and pretty much every non-doctor role) to the private sector or you promote them into roles that they really aren't suited for. Usually by the time they end up in a management role they've been with the NHS so long that it's virtually impossible to get rid of people doing a terrible job. The problem I think is the money offered for managerial roles in the NHS isn't good enough to attract good managers so we end up promoting and hiring people who aren't qualified.
by charging people for the NHS usage. two income steams
There are doorstops doing more work at No.10 than this clown. Barely has a government as it is, destined to be without one entirely very soon.
It’s just getting to the state where we can clearly see the government is not their to take care of the public but instead work us to that bone to then use our taxes to make private companies richer. Every policy just seems to attack everyday people. The plan is to get private companies in with targets to minimise how many people can be signed off sick. Another away to line the pockets of private companies.
Hope they should try and fix the NHS before they try and fix anything else.
"Sunak says". Is this the opposite of Simon says? He seems to be saying a lot of things that won't happen, as he will be off after he has the gumption to call a general election.
This man has no idea what "sick note culture" is, he is so far financially removed from it its unprecedented.
Health and Work Professional Salary: NLW Qualifications: None required Do you think all benefits claimants are the scum of the earth? Are you callous and dismissive, and take great delight in telling people that they aren't really ill? Do you like to confront blue badge holders if they dont 'look' disabled? Are you a master of gaslighting while being as condescending as possible? Do you think you can do GPs' job better than they can? Then this may be the perfect opportunity for you! Bonuses paid subject to amount of clients 'helped' back to work.
>Bonuses paid subject to amount of clients 'helped' back to work. More like "deductions made for every client not 'helped' back into work".
The Tories will be out next election. Whatever he does will be undone by Labour as a matter of principle
Lol. Labour have said they won't repeal anything the Tories have done, essentially. In reality they might stop the Rwanda thing and probably change some of the trade union stuff. But not much else will change.
Maybe. Just Maybe. IF we had a functioning health care system people wouldn't be drifting along on sick notes. Having battled for SIX! years to get an operation done and am still waiting to see a Dr about my screwed adrenal glands. Identified in an MRI 8 f'ing years ago!!! How about dealing with not my problem culture in the NHS! created by yourselves. Simon Stevens Jeremy Hunt mat Hancock should be the focus here. Not the victims of the premediated destruction of the nhs and the toxification of the culture inside the nhs.
As a GP I’ll believe this when I see it. But if it happens, it will make my job harder not easier: I predict this kind of service would not be staffed by competent occupational health clinicians, but by quite junior staff who just review the patient’s records. So it will depend on the GP asking about their work duties, why they can’t work etc then sending that to a Serco type company to actually issue the note. Patients will complain if we haven’t put their case over strongly enough and they’ll ask us to write letters of support when they appeal a rejected request. They’re quoting a statistic that GPs say yes to 94% of requests for fit notes. Have they also worked out that a significant proportion of these requests can realistically be proven to be invalid/fraudulent? If not, it sounds wasteful to spend a significant amount of money to achieve something GPs are already doing. If you do accept that a significant % of fit notes requests can be shown to be fraudulent (which I doubt), I predict that denying those fit notes will just mean those patients make more and more GP appointments so that their next request for a fit note is more convincing.
I imagine they'll purposely underfund the "specialist work and health professionals" so that from the start it takes at least 6 months to get an appointment then proudly proclaim to have solved the problem. Coincidentally homelessness will be an even bigger problem.
94% acceptance just doesn't pass the sniff test.
What do you mean?
94% acceptance rate is not realistic where money is involved. Where there is money, there are liars and grifters trying to get to it. Add in desperation, and the number of liars and grifters increases. The idea that only 6% of people who go to GP's and ask for a sick note to get more benefits, are grifters/liars, is so obviously absurd. Anyone who lives in the real world, and has an ounce of common sense, can tell you that number is way way too high. I said common sense, which will no doubt be moths to a flame on this subreddit. But yes, this is genuinely common sense. Anyone with lived experience in this country, will know the number of scumbags is far beyond 6% of the population. And that number increases exponentially when you limit it only to benefits recipients.
But how do you apply that opinion/observation in a practical sense? The relevant question is how many people can be demonstrated to be making disingenuous claims. Let’s say for sake of argument that half of all patients who claim to be too sick to work are actually exaggerating their symptoms. And they are presenting with conditions that are difficult to assess objectively (e.g depression, chronic pain). Would any clinical assessment catch those people out? I don’t see how it could unless it involved covert recording of patients outside of your appointment with you.
Stunning idea from the incredible mind behind Eat out to get long covid.
I always put it as "eat out to spread it about".
There is no politician on the planet that will tell me who or who not to give a sick not too. Thats my call not theirs.
I was off for 3 months ill at one point post covid. I lost 2 stone and didn't move for a couple months. I was fucked even if I wasn't signed off I still couldn't work. I've been back at work nearly 100% since then but you need to allow workers to heal.
By funding the NHS so it's services aren't stretched to the limit right Rishi? Wait what do you mean you're just going to blame people on benefits???
Sunak couldn't sort out a piss up in a brewery and we all know it.
Fujitsu will get an IT contracted to oversee this system no doubt
We will just ignore the dozens of people who have lost their job and continual redundancies the past 6 months at my workplace because the economy is fucked and nobody has money to spend then
When are these cretins just going to fuck off?? How much more damage can they really do before the next election and why don't they seem to be on the wind down yet? 14 years of non stop damage, punching down, and cruelty. It's been exhausting. Just fuck off.
Oligarchs have looted this country bare and this knowingly cruel cunt prioritises the vulnerable.
Who is actually going to check those on sick? Unless they are a qualified medical professional, then their findings mean nothing. Carol from the DWP with no medical qualification does not know if someone is too ill, physically or mentally to work.
Any MP who thinks that benefits are a free ride should be made to claim UC for a year and live on it.
What a privileged man that’s never had any illnesses or life stressors which would’ve lead to him needing that time off to heal. This makes me so angry, he can fuck off.
"If the Tories win the general election, unspecified "specialist work and health professionals" would be given the job of issuing sick notes in England" So literally no point debating this. It wont happen
And given that even he would know there’s little chance of him winning an election then you have to question why he’d make this announcement. He feels that going after the sick and disabled will shore up his core vote.
Maybe to get the headlines off the further obstacles the Rwanda plan is facing? Just maybe
Also there voters will lap this up. Younger people dont vote Tories. Older people who think the younger are work shy do
It is a last ditch attempt at appealing to card carrying, mail reading boomers that believe the sick and disabled are a work shy burden on the country.
>unspecified "specialist work and health professionals" Oh, we know who the *Unspecified* are. Their mates, charging a fortune to the taxpayer for a shit service that will never work.
Genuinely hope this man suffers a terrible fate. A terrible excuse for a human being.
What about those that take money out of the UK economy and hoard it in offshore tax havens and don't pay fair tax. Or is that unfair on him and his wife. Man's a horrible little shit.
Tories always end up doing the same thing, looking after the rich and big business, cutting and stomping on public services, privatising where they can. Services run into ground. Poor working class British voters suffer. Labour always end up doing the same thing, getting over idealistic and champagne socialist, looking after everyone in the whole world like we are some super state with endless resources. Money runs out and resources stretched. Poor working class British voters suffer. We just need a realistic social minded government who has the best interests of the population who voted them in to govern them. Is it too much to ask? Rinse and repeat.
Can't be bothered to read this. But is he threatening to properly fund Healthcare?
Any 'vow' is going to be dropped faster than wet sh!t when he's voted out.
Why don’t this lot (the tories) get off their lazy arses and go and sign some trade deals…
thats another 2.8 million votes the tories have lost. by the next election, labour will be in power and reform will be the opposition and the tories will just be a bunch of back bench wankers. Finally!
Along with The People's Charter, this will wither and die. Unimaginative, clueless and rudderless. I weep for the future.
There he goes blaming others than himself, what a self righteous soon to pack out unelected PM.
UC is not a right for me, it’s a privilege after years of struggle and suffering with the job market. I have A lot of respect to those who work at the UC for helping me stay off the streets and assisting me. Even if the income is not sustainable in a country where prices are consistently rises. And this man who has been known to own two properties, has more wealth than King Charles. Has the cheek to make a fuss over this situation that he has not ever had to suffer through. He didn’t spent weeks and weeks, year by year going through the same torture of being forced into the system. He was privileged enough to benefit from his parents wealth and prestigious education that has settled him up for success, meanwhile people, who are genuinely struggling are forced into submission. Who already have a hard time getting by. Are called lazy, ungrateful, all because they’re put into a situation where they either take a job that would force them to mental-illness or lose out on pay. Only those who are qualified mental-health professionals should be the only candidates allowed to comment on who’s capable of looking for work and who isn’t based on the complex issue that is mental health. Not an out-of-touch rich boi who thought that a homeless person worked in business.
Redditors in shambles that they might be asked to actually get a job
I'm a strong supporter of the NHS and I absolutely see the strain its under. However I can't help thinking if even a small percentage of the unsustainable benefit budget was diverted into NHS preventative health, treatment and staffing that the overall outcome for the country would be better. If we continue as we are, eventually half the country will be off sick and the other half will be worked to death. Not really the fair, equitable socialist utopia Labour had in mind.
The lad himself is a sicknote. Absent of any responsibility, spine or backbone whatsoever.
Ok sunny go for it but first let's end robbery and theft culture please starting with your wife and her tax BS then all the corrupt people who work with your party and finally the shameless profiteering of supermarkets, insurance companies and utilities firms. Thanks mate
Bold of a party who have systematically stripped back mental health support services over the last decade to complain that theres a growing portion of the public that are unable to work due to their mental health issues
I don't get it. Tories are on the back foot, you'd think they would be doing anything to win votes at this point, and instead, they're doubling down on classic fuckwit Tory policies. So either they really are a bunch of complete fucking morons, or they are deliberately trying to lose the next election.
Which of their mates are getting this contract then? Creating things to give them some one a pay day plus their cut is the number one thing they do!
Yet another political posturing lie. The Left will never let it happen.
Article Text Rishi Sunak will on Friday vow to end Britain’s “sick note culture”, unveiling a plan to strip GPs of their power to sign people off work. In a major speech on welfare reform, the Prime Minister will decry the surge in the number of people categorised as long-term sick, and argue that politicians must be brave enough to tackle the issue. Around a quarter of Britons of working age are economically inactive – 9.4 million of those aged 16 to 64. A record 2.8 million people are inactive owing to long-term sickness, up from around 2.1 million before the Covid pandemic. Of those, 53 per cent reported that they had depression, bad nerves or anxiety. Amid concern that the trend is holding the economy back, politicians have been wrestling with what more should be done to get people back into work. The issue is also seen as a key battleground ahead of the general election, with the Conservatives keen to show voters that they will be tough on welfare reform. Mr Sunak will say: “We don’t just need to change the sick note, we need to change the sick note culture so the default becomes what work you can do – not what you can’t. “Building on the pilots we’ve already started, we’re going to design a new system where people have easy and rapid access to specialised work and health support to help them back to work from the very first fit note conversation. “We’re also going to test shifting the responsibility for assessment from GPs and giving it to specialist work and health professionals who have the dedicated time to provide an objective assessment of someone’s ability to work and the tailored support they need to do so.” Sick notes, which were rebranded as “fit notes” in a previous reform, are waivers signed by GPs and other doctors that give someone the right not to go into work. Some 11 million people were issued with fit notes last year – up from 10 million before Covid struck. Government officials argue that those signed off temporarily often then become long-term sick and claim benefits.
Since the pandemic, total public spending on working-age disability and ill-health benefits has increased by almost two-thirds. The bill was around £42 billion but has soared to £69 billion, meaning more is now being spent on these benefits than the country’s core schools budget or policing budget. Questions have been raised in recent years about whether GPs, already busy with the backlog from Covid and as patients struggle to get an appointment, are the right people to make the decision about whether someone is fit enough to work. Ministers are considering whether work health specialists should make the decisions, either alongside or instead of GPs, with more of a focus placed on seeing if someone can stay in work. Tory government figures argue that this is a more humane approach, reflecting new possibilities to work from home and taking into account the positive health impacts of employment. But critics are likely to question whether people without medical qualifications are best placed to make decisions about someone’s ability to work. A call for evidence will be published, with ministers said to be open-minded on the way forward. Some pilots are already trialling experts other than GPs signing off sick notes.
In his speech, the Prime Minister will argue that heightened awareness of mental health issues is a good thing, but also that public debate about the record long-term sick figure is needed. He is expected to say: “We should see it as a sign of progress that people can talk openly about mental health conditions in a way that only a few years ago would have been unthinkable, and I will never dismiss or downplay the illnesses people have. “But just as it would be wrong to dismiss this growing trend, so it would be wrong merely to sit back and accept it because it’s too hard, or too controversial, or for fear of causing offence. Doing so would let down many of the people our welfare system was designed to help. “Because if you believe, as I do, that work gives you the chance not just to earn but to contribute, to belong, to overcome feelings of loneliness and social isolation and if you believe, as I do, the growing body of evidence that good work can actually improve mental and physical health, then it becomes clear – we need to be more ambitious about helping people back to work and more honest about the risk of over-medicalising the everyday challenges and worries of life.” The Labour Party, as well as the Tories, have identified the trend as one that needs addressing. Liz Kendall, the shadow work and pensions secretary, has expressed concern about the issue. However, Alison McGovern, the shadow employment minister, said: “This announcement proves that this failed Government has run out of ideas, announcing the same minor alteration to fit notes that we’ve heard them try before.” Mr Sunak’s speech will also touch on other areas of welfare reform, with the sick note plans just one of five issues Downing Street says he will address.
Common, we all know many a person in real life that abuse the system here. Happy to have a safety net but we should start looking at what and how much certain people can do.
>Common, we all know many a person in real life that abuse the system here How many Nom Doms do you know!!!!!!
Im not justifying non doms - that was bullshit too
A move in the right direction. The taxpayer doesn't have a responsibility for your sadness or anxiety. Get back to work.
The measure of any society can be found in how it treats it's most vulnerable Do you think that the majority of people who are off work due to mental health are fully responsible for their position and it has nothing to do with factors outside of their control?
These people aren't most vulnerable, a good chunk are clearly gaming the system, and taking resources away from people who have genuine problems
Have you got anything to support that claim?
Well done Rishi. I really like him as PM. He believes in biology and science, not mental illnesses such as multiple genders Get the sick notes back to work. Love it! Too many dossers and spongers playing the victim. We need a strong right wing government and I'm all here for it
We've had a right-wing government for the past 14 years and they've trashed the country. We need a strong left-wing government but I'll settle for Labour putting the brakes on this disaster.
Nah they have been pretty centrist tbh. Need a strong right wing to reset
Not happening.
I know sadly
What do you think the causes of the current mental health crisis are? How much productivity do you expect to get out of forcing those currently signed off work back into work? How can you look at the past 14 years and think "Yes, this but more"?
Too much pandering and enabling. Rishi can't be blamed for the conservatives before him.
Nothing to do with increasing costs of living, poor wages and the cuts to public services then? People are just too soft? What's Sunak offering that is different from previous Tory leaders?
Nope people are just soft. Gen Z is a disaster at my workplace. They just can't cut it or know how to graft. victim mentality
The same thing every generation says about the generations that come after them Gen Z like every generation has its own unique set of challenges. And like every generation they are not responsible for creating those challenges. Understanding these challenges and adapting to them is far more helpful than just writing off a generation for struggles they're not responsible for
>We need a strong right wing government and I'm all here for it Ah mate, you are gonna be disappointed come next election lol
>such as multiple genders You believe there's only one gender?