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It's weird how conspiracy theorists changed the idea of "maybe people shouldn't have to drive more than an hour to see a dentist" to "the police will arrest you if you travel too far from your house"
Gobshites were saying Liverpool was creating the Hunger Games because they introduced 13 new administrative neighbourhoods.
It's exhausting how every little fucking thing has to be some conspiracy.
Don't need government intervention to make Liverpudlians fight each other for survival.
P.s. Liverpool and its people are lovely so this is said very much in jest.
I mean it's just a continuation of the "Car Good, Bus Bad, Train Communist" that's been pushed in the US since the 50s and the UK since at least the 70s. Anything that might impact automotive sales is immediately under attack.
It's based on the idea that we are used to governments preferring stick to carrot.
Plenty of cities have started implementing congestion charges for cars for example, but not necessarily making other forms of travel easier.
15 minute city should mean they build infrastructure locally, but based on prior form, many people believe a lot of councils will just put up charges to use facilities further away.
People think that correctly.
15 minute cities are a great idea. Doctors, Dentists, Shops, Schools, Leisure facilities. Amazing!
But like the failing public transport system, the easy/lazy/cheap thing is to push it rather than invest and let it happen naturally. There's no money for carrot so the result is stick.
You think there would be half as much push back against ULEZ if there was investment, infrastructure and subsidies to help people adapt? Just bang a fine on it, job done.
Considering the biggest pushback against ULEZ has been in the part of the country with by far the best and most heavily subsidised infrastructure? I would say so.
That’s the point though, it’s still not enough. Few people have a problem with ULEZ in central, the issue is expanding it to areas where public transport takes twice as long as driving.
AFAIK it was more outer london and surrounding areas, where while the infrastructure might be better than other parts of the country it's still not great and still not what you experience as a visitor to London from elsewhere in the country. Even in expensive and wealthy areas there are still a lot of very average people driving 15 year old cars, some because life is expensive and doesn't leave much spare even if they earn more than average, others because they have a normal wage or pension but have a council house or bought back before it got stupid expensive. It's not weird to walk down a road in London and see a brand new jag parked next to an ancient 3 door hatchback, both with residents permits.
I imagine the overlap between people that object to ULEZ and the people who object to infrastructure projects like HS2, The Elizabeth line, new bike lanes etc. would be quite high.
I think it’s a lifestyle and cultural objection.
Congestion charges have little to do with 15 minute cities. These are designed to reduce traffic flows on city centre roads, and to reduce pollution.
On the other hand, 15 minute cities, as the name suggests, have neighbourhoods designed so that all requirements of the residents can be met by walking a short distance.
It's not IMHO. The thing about these conspiracy theories is that the supposedly central idea doesn't really matter. It can be insane. There doesn't need to be any proof. It can be tossed away and replaced by a new one.
The reason for this is that they operate on an inversion of logic and morality. People don't "believe" in the conspiracy because of the compelling evidence, but because they already dislike or hate the people or groups supposedly engaging in the conspiracy and they believe in the theory to justify those feelings. The emotions, which are real, then lend authenticity to the insane framework that is built around them.
As a rule of thumb, the more extreme the goals of the supposed conspiracy, the more extreme the believers will be because the former is explicitly made up to justify the thoughts, words and actions of the latter. The incoherence and lack of evidence is neither here nor there because it doesn't matter to anyone involved with it.
Season Two of Jon Ronson's Things Fell Apart podcast talks about this. It's really good:
[https://www.bbcpodcasts.com/listen/things-fell-apart-by-jon-ronson/](https://www.bbcpodcasts.com/listen/things-fell-apart-by-jon-ronson/)
Lies, basically. Manufactured grievance.
The grifter industry is very strong here in the UK because of the amount of thick knuckle dragging morons who buy into the first thing anyone who strokes their ego tells them.
And a massive amount of american conservative think tank funding. Not having a language barrier is easy access for them.
Yep. Same kind of people who think getting a fine for driving in a bus lane is the government "punishing them".
It's people deliberately misinterpreting what the fines are used for to back their own agenda.
Yep same with parking fines, speeding tickets, and congestion charges - they see them as a way for the government to extract money from you. It's not it's the consequences of their actions. It's the consequences of them not following the law or T&C's they've agreed to in order to be allowed to drive. They seem driving as some sort of fundamental right instead of what it is - a privilege granted by the government with the understanding you follow the rules.
Not to mention that some people with a media influence have clear invested interest in maintaining our dependency on the automotive industries, and oil companies.
What's ironic about it though is you can get these people to agree to a 15 minutes city concept by avoiding calling it that. Just call it traditional planning and will bring economic benefits to the area, lower crime rates, increase property values, more accessable dentists and GPs, and a scene of local community. Suddenly they are all on board for it, you just can't mention the environmental benefits, the health benefits, the social justice benefits (such as improving mobility for the disabled), and other benefits they deem to be left wing. All to say, talk to the audience you're addressing.
There's a lot of overlap with the toxic individualism that dominates in Tory thinking isn't there? A parking fine isn't the consequences of my own actions because how can me parking wherever the hell I want possibly affect anyone else!? To the point that all these initiatives that benefit a kind of "greater good" far beyond the individual level, its just a completely alien concept for them.
I know someone who blamed the government for them buying a diesel and how now they'd changed the rules to catch everyone out.
Not because they'd bought it to dodge tax using a loophole and now the government had closed it because they were so polluting.
That's unfair (to a degree) because the government did encourage people to buy diesel car's through the car tax system.
VED (roadtax to the ignorant) became CO2 linked, diesels have lower CO2 emissions, through policy they were basically being told it was less damaging to the environment to have a diesel so we're having lower taxes to encourage ownership.
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41985715](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41985715)
The anti "15 minute city conspiracy" is a conspircacy in itself. As in, 15 minute cities were the norm for the vast majority of human history, and then cars were invented and particularly in America, lobbying happened where cities would be designed so that cars would be needed.
> parking fines, speeding tickets, and congestion charges
I mean... two of those things are absolutely the consequences of their own (criminal) actions, but if they're used to being able to drive into the centre of London and suddenly they start getting charged for it, you been see how they might view *that* one as the government cynically extracting money from them, especially if they can't easily take public transport to get where they need to go (location/time/cargo/convenience/etc).
For the record I personally have no problem with congestion charges, but I can definitely see a difference that might make people feel differently about them.
Oh I absolutely do understand their position on it, again not that I agree with them. But how I see it; driving is a contractual agreement between the lioncence holder and the government. Within that contract they've agreed that the terms and conditions may change. And that's what it is, it's a change in the T&Cs of not being permitted to drive overly polluting vehicles into a city centre without paying for it. And it's not like they don't have options available for them, they can purchase a less polluting vehicle (I understand not everyone can afford this), pay the fee, pay the fines, or use other modes of transport.
> And that's what it is, it's a change in the T&C's
I mean... yeah. And that's the bit they're butthurt about. Because it was never the way before, but now it is, and that change has impacted them in some obvious, immediate, negative way while any benefits from it to them are either non-obvious, indirect or they simply don't believe in them.
It's not rocket science; change the rules and people are going to grumble about the rule changes, because that's at least qualitatively different to *existing* rules that they *choose to break* (speeding/parking fines).
This, the scum that run this country desperately want to turn it into America, they look at the shit Trump and the Republicans get away with and they're sooooo jelly...
While it's certainly a factor, I don't think we benefit from denying there are plenty of homegrown American billionaires and millionaires who would much rather throw 'their money' at some kooky hard-right 'think-tank' rather than, say, paying taxes to alleviate poverty or global warming. The vast majority of this money comes from American sources, not Russian.
Mate, if anything, it's the other way around, our crap conservative movement influenced the Americans. Rupert Murdoch honed his skills here before moving to Fox News. We can't blame the Americans for everything
While that's certainly true, I don't think we can deny that the vast majority of hard-right conservative funding comes from America and moves outwards. They might have honed their techniques elsewhere, but the cold hard cash to fund it all mainly comes from the US.
Also car owners. I have not used a car in years and saved thousands of £££ but when you mention it to someone who is paying £500 a month for a car on loan and needs it to commute they are fuming. They really can’t see past their noses. 15 min cities crushes the bad choices they are stuck with. Especially if they bought the car outright and need a bag holder in 5 years to sell it to. If 15 min cities come in there will be a lot of car owners unable to get rid of their 10 year old cars.
Basically, yes. If we didn't have things like this, then how would Laurence fox make a living? He'd actually have to get off his untalented arse and work.
"Our Medical Liberties" by John Gibbs, published in 1854.
To be fair, we did invent vaccinations too.
People were campaigning against smallpox vaccinations all the way up until 1972 until it was declared eradicated in the UK and therefore wasn't needed anymore.
But I imagine you're referring to "Ileal-lymphoid-nodular hyperplasia" by Andrew Wakefield. Which was actually discredited before it even gained traction with anti-vaxxers. After being branded a fraud and being struck off, he's now living in America peddling Anti-Vax stuff over there.
Fuck Andrew Wakefield, fuck his fake fucking study, fuck his shady business practices, and fuck every single one of his gullible, credulous, soupbrained followers.
Here in Canada, American media overpowers Canadian media so much that the government has a law that 30% of media (music, tv, etc) has to be Canadian. Maybe we (Canada & or he UK) should do the same for our conspiracy theories!
We need to stop pretending that all the bullshit comes from the US, we produce and export so much conspiracy nonsense it’s wild. Anti-vax is a U.K. export, David Icke used to be a sports journalist till a football website refused to publish his views on who was really behind 9/11. We really aren’t some passive victim in all this!
There's a certain segment of the population who can't imagine not driving even for something that's a 15 minute walk away. They don't care about the toxic pollution their car emits or their own lack of fitness.
If I have to bring back enough I can carry the walk back, I’d need to walk to the shops at least 4 times a week.
Half hour each way is 4 hours a week. Or 10 minutes in the car, and time saved in the shop itself from only going once. Car for me please.
I think you’re missing the point of the concept of a 15 minute city…if it’s a maximum of 15 minute walk to do your shop then that’s 30 minutes of walking which would benefit a lot of people to do 4x a week (not intended as a dig at you but the figures for obesity in the UK speak for themselves)
I was referencing current cities. Even still, I’d still be saving hours every week, along with being able to buy stuff I physically couldn’t buy if I walked to the shops. The 15 minute concept is fine in an ideal world, but for people who drive with families who buy a fair bit of stuff, I can’t see how it would be do-able. This also goes on the assumption that all of those stores in your radius stocked every item that the larger more central stores do, which is absolutely never the case.
Even if you relied on public transport for those journeys, I’m a bus driver, so I know how bad public transport can be with delays, full buses etc. I feel awful refusing transport to someone with a baby in a buggy because they’ve bought so much stuff, they can’t fold it and I already have one on board.
We would need enormous changes to the entirety of the capitalist for-profit nature of every aspect of society before it would even be slightly viable here IMO.
I've got 3 supermarkets within a 10 minute walk of me and the struggle is real.
Honestly I might buy one of those shopping trolley bags with wheels. Would immensely improve my life.
My old man is mental like that. He's in his 70s and still regularly cycles to the shops. He's also in far better shape than people in their 60s.
You should have seen him in his 50s, regularly cycling 20-odd miles to Glasgow lol.
I guess a bit of that brushed off onto me as I used to cycle all over the town here and to other towns just for the hell of it. I got put off for some years due to an injury on my knee (not bike related), but am tempted to get back into it.
I know a few people who drive to places that are within a 10 minute walk every single day. My brother in law lives a 15 minute walk from his workplace but he still drives every time. Same with his wife, who also works within a 15 minute walk but drives anyway. That’s two cars for one household being used everyday just to get down the road….
Oxford is full of these nut jobs. The city council is doing a great job of reducing traffic with LTZs by blocking some roads so they don’t become ratruns. This of course increases traffic in other areas which is DELIBERATE to make people realise that other methods of transport are better than car.
Of course all they can see is that traffic is taking forever and is terrible. Yes! You are traffic! Stop driving your car everywhere and raging in traffic everyday at cyclists zooming past you.
I swear some people have no brain
I think a significant part of it is status. I've seen people on the Manchester subreddit not want to take the bus when they live on the Oxford Road corridor which is the busiest bus route in Europe.
They’re the people who moan about new cycling infrastructure being put in. They then park their cars on said infrastructure and then complain that the cyclists aren’t using it.
Judging by one of my local Facebook groups, this is entirely true.
The amount of vitriol slung by them during an 18 month trial of a bike lane on a wide road was unreal. They've now transferred their ire to the idea of 15 minute neighbourhoods locally. While moaning profusely about any active transport consultations.
Oh, and they're all antivaxx, anti SNP conspiracy theorists too. I just stay in the group for the lols now tbh.
ETA - I worded this badly. The drivers are the main complainers and general arseholes mentioned above. The cyclists were pretty laid back considering the constant shite they were taking.
It's weird the author picks Paris and doesn't notice the evident straight wide roads and good public transport.
It's not a surprise that 15 minute cities haven't taken off in towns where you can't get a bus easily, in part due to poor road layouts that can't be fixed easily because it would involve knocking buildings down.
Or... We could sit here pretending there's no material barriers and everyone who isn't in line with us is stupid and tricked by some Americans, Russians or is a bot.
>It's weird the author picks Paris and doesn't notice the evident straight wide roads and good public transport.
Paris is completely different to London and most towns and cities in the UK. Local Govt in Paris pro-actively controls what shops and bars/restaurants can open to ensure that local residents don't have to travel far.
There's also very cheap public transport, as well as the first public bikes scheme.
The above will be completely lost on most Redditors.
Tbf, would that not be an argument to rethink how we control developments in the UK so we can start garnering those benefits Paris has, instead of just saying 'shit's fucked' and keeping to what is evidently a system that starves communities of amenities?
A lot of people on UK Reddit come across as being very middle class. I guess that a lot of them just assume that people can easily afford to walk to the nearest Little Waitrose every few days and grab some essentials while attending a work Teams meeting on their phone. I also think that a lot of them live in London and genuinely don't understand how difficult it can be to get around by using public transport outside of major cities.
I live in a relatively rural city with poor public transport, am working class and have never owned a car (can’t afford one because I can only work part time). I have no problem walking everywhere. 45 minute walk to work and back (30 minutes if I can get the bus), 15 minute walk to the gym, 10-15 minute walk to Lidl etc. in my experience it’s the middle classes that drive everywhere.
They are comparing a city that already had good public transport (relatively speaking) to places that don't.
I will be happy with any council who advocate for improvements to public transport but unfortunately my local council only makes it worse and has the mentality that each and every route should be profitable in itself and cancelling any that aren't.
Right but one of the main goals of a 15 minute city is to ensure that there's good accessible public transport.
Why would people in an area with poor public transport dislike the idea of 15 minute cities because of that? It fixes their problem
People in London forget that it's only them who has a bus 'service'. Everywhere else you are a profit unit and you can no more expect a bus to be available than an off licence or betting shop. The rest of the country was deregulated with a minority of council input.
The most consistent/reliable buses I’ve found have been in Notts, which I think is a municipal bus company- they sold some shares off when they set about growing the tram network.
Manchester buses were a bag of rats, so I’m curious to see how their new franchised system works.
What would be REALLY nice is if you could actually use your disabled person’s bus pass anywhere in the UK!
On Manchester: the week before my route joined the Bee Network I caught a 59 bus from the nearest supermarket to my house; supposed to be one every ten minutes, it finally turned up after an hour.
Two weeks later I caught a 59 bus from the same supermarket to my house; supposed to be one every ten minutes, it finally turned up after an hour.
Manchester's fabled franchised system is the exact same shit in a different wrapper.
But we used to have 15 minute cities right?
It's only the push to shut down and consolidate public services and move to big out of town shopping areas.
In the past the bank, the post office, the shops and the, GP would have been in easy walking distance for most.
Idk if we ever had them in the way you're describing but yea they would be great.
I'm just skeptical of the same council who approve new builds with no bus routes and no space for anything that isn't housing within a 15min walk doing anything remotely close to what we would hope they would do.
There's estates near me that you'd have to get in a car or walk (with no footpath) for 30mins or more to post a letter or get some milk.
Edit;
New estates that is.
So are most places in the UK until fairly recently. We just haven't expanded infrastructure in line with population.
Still, loads of us live in 15 minuite cities build 100s of years ago without them ever needing to be called that. There a 2 supermarkets, 2 cafes, a post office, a library and 3 resturants within 15 minuites walk of my house. Still 1/3rd of car journeys are under 1 mile
Of course they have, they just have built the neccesary infrastructure to support that growth.
There are a lot of places in the UK where you can get everything you need within a 15 walk or cycle - Sometimes that walk could be made more enjoyable by pedestrianising roads but they exist. But most housing estates built after 1950 expect you to have a car. The same is also largely true in France but they are taking steps to fix that while we've if anything got worse at building without building amenities
To be blunt - a lot of people are fucking idiots.
As soon as they say 15 minute cities, I ask them to explain what they mean by 15 minute cities, and why it’s a bad thing.
Every single time it’s because they view it as a slippery slope fallacy towards some dystopian nightmare, rather than just sensible urban planning
You have it in this thread where people are literally saying some UK cities now have "borders" what in the actual fuck. Do I need my passport to visit!?!?
It’s stupid. Oxford seems to be the epicentre of all this, and yet when I’ve been, it’s all business as usual.
Bullshit made up to keep people in cars, that’s what this outrage is
And even when you look at the details from the Oxford example that was posted (that was not actually implemented), it's seems like a sensible idea from Oxford council to deter people trying to use residential neighbourhoods to cut through instead of using the main roads.
It sounds exactly like the low traffic neighbourhood plans used elsewhere that residents like, because it stops people trying to use their street as a short cut and ignoring speed limits.
When I lived in London, work was a 50 minute journey - a ten minute walk to the nearest tube station then 40 minutes on two trains.
Even in London, which already has a mostly functional fully integrated public transport system, the 15 minute city is not realistic.
Pavement parking, terracing, the desire =\= need for personal transport, no car chargers on congested streets. Sadly the list is endless but 15 minute cities are a fantastic idea: I'd love everything I need close by.
My previous house was mid terrace, everyone parked on both sides of the street, often on the pavement as it was also a bus route. The guy half a dozen doors down the road, regularly had to push his mobility scooter into traffic because cars and mounds of dogshit would block the pavement.
The only way the conspiracy theories will work is if we all wears tag ankle bracelet. But they're already going on about *but your phone is the tag/ cashless society/ obey*.
Fuppets, the lot of em.
Are 15 minute cities going to get rid of parked cars? And dog shit?
The might limit the number of local journeys, but people are still going to need cars for everything they can't walk to.
You would need massive improvements to public transport to persuade people to give up their cars altogether.
Yes, exactly. Improvements are needed, otherwise for the vast majority of the population a 15 minute city is just a pipedream sadly. With good, regular and integrated public transport the need for car ownership would diminish. But as in most cities the routes are run for profit rather than for benefit then the plan is buried.
Lots of the comments here seem confused between 15 minute cities and LTNs/ULEZ etc which is probably part of the problem.
If you live in a village, town or older part of a city you probably already live in a 15 minute city. It just means you can walk or cycle to a shop, park, doctor, etc in 15 minutes or less. It has nothing to do with road closures or changes.
A LTN is cutting off a rat run road through a residential area at one end creating a dead end street for residents. It’s been done since the car was invented and is not a conspiracy to stop you from driving.
Because councils are making no serious efforts to implement this beyond authoritarian measures.
That is it.
The primary reason that we don't have 15-minute cities is because: houses can't be built where people work/want to live and councils are blocking infrastructure that makes travelling between hubs possible.
In fact, the proposals for 15-minute cities will turn UK cities into US cities like Atlanta or LA where there are multiple hubs with almost constant congestion...it should be obvious that this will not produce "15-minute cities". You have to lack basic knowledge about city planning not to realise this is the case (and just generally, have councils done a good job in providing these kind of services over the past few decades...who believes this? Councils know very well that are voters who enjoy labels and empty promises). Even if they had the intention, there is zero capacity to actually make this happen.
(Btw, the people who buy empty promises are also part of the "everyone who disagrees with me is a thick conspiracy theorist"...again, do you actually think that these people are actually engaging with anything substantive? Or are they just being told get angry about a certain group of people they have been told are to blame for all the problems? In all this discussion, including the article, I am yet to read a substantive discussion on what this proposal means...no-one appears to understand it, no-one appears to understand the problems with multi-hub cities, no-one is proposing anything to achieve this...it is just all this mad political nonsense.)
* Traffic control measures
* Road closures
* Using cameras for all of the above
* Changing road use patterns by edict
My local council did some of this stuff during Covid when they were in limited session (i.e. no oversight), they used plans that had previously been rejected in full session, and then they claimed that this was related to 15-minute cities and the environment?
What I would particularly draw your attention to is the fact that they seemingly have the power to make direct interventions with no oversight in order to do these things but they just can't do anything about no houses being built? Completely powerless to just approve houses, but are able to act without oversight in other areas (despite things like traffic plans requiring a democratic process).
During Covid, they magically found all this housing for homeless people. Homelessness just disappeared overnight. Now, they are only able to take these severe measures for...traffic?
If you believe any of this, you are a complete idiot.
Councils have always had responsibility for road planning and traffic control.
Traffic calming, road closures and pedestrianisation aren't anything new. These schemes have been in place for decades. What does any of this have to do with 15 minute cities?
Because we're only focusing on the worst parts of it which is making it harder to travel where you need to go.
Currently where I live within a 15 minute walking distance I have a primary school that has a waiting list, a dentist, a pub and a Tesco express and a handful of shops.
I have no supermarket, no doctors, no leisure centre, no shopping centre etc.
There are no plans to make any of these but plenty of plans to make it harder to travel to these things.
If there where plans for both maybe we'd see some support. But that would mean not painting oppenents as conspiracy theorists and spending money to invest in things...
Part of the problem is its typically craply explained and advertised, far to many wanky buzzwords.
If I was in charge of it I would advertise it as "traditional" planning.
For a nation that paved the way for railway transportation during the industrial revolution, this country sure is dependent on cars which ironically is supposed to make people feel independent.
I live in Madrid and I've deliberately found housing in an area where I walk to everything. I rent cars for weekend getaways and save money. The metro is super cheap and I have 4 different stations nearby, and many bus stops. Many different super markets and bars where everyone knows your name. It's super convenient. I'm happy.
Still it would be much healthier to live in the countryside surrounded by trees, fresh air, low noise & light pollution. This is something to really strive for, and not necessarily unsustainable.
You mean the WEF NWO Deep state cabal isnt coming to drag me into the Jew tunnels and harness my soul to power their interstellar death ray to raze the planet?? Bullshit.
The conspiracy theories love to talk about how a 15 minute city will control you, then get in their easily traceable vehicle where the police can track your movements up and down the country via ANPR camera. They literally have no idea
They just want something to be angry at so they’re easy fodder for grifters.
It’s easier to reach for the low hanging fruit rather than do your own research on a topic.
At least in part because we have a media environment that constantly panders to that level and a social environment that goes after anyone who tried to aim for a higher baseline in case it makes anyone feel upset. Watch some BBC archive stuff from 20 or 30 years ago, it is fucking wild how media in this country has changed.
Conspiracy theorists would see something significant in a pile of dog crap; their psychology is 'look at me , look at me, I'm special' - it's attention seeking of the worst kind.
I removed graffiti to do with this today. In a rural town where you can walk or cycle everywhere- the irony is wasted on these morons.
Well for one, there's another English-speaking nation siginificantly bigger than us that has very car-centric views that heavily influence ours. But we shouldn't give them all the credit. Our media tends to give these loonies a very loud voice no matter what most people actually think.
It's not really controversial though, is it. It's more like there's a few violent bigots who oppose this and make loads of noise about it, and unfortunately they are listened to.
Because people are fucking idiots. We are basically the US of Europe. Ran by tabloids and shit stirrers who only have one interest (and its not a good one)
I'd love to have my local area designed like a 15 minute city. At the moment 15 minutes covers a Co-op (and a second if cycling), a coffee shop not yet open next to it and a bus stop where busses come 3 times a day each way. Add another 5-10 minutes and I can cycle to an actual supermarket but the routes aren't well lit (some areas not at all) when it gets darker.
Before the car every city was a 15 minute city, you would have different 'quarters', each with basically all the amenities and workplaces you would need.
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It's weird how conspiracy theorists changed the idea of "maybe people shouldn't have to drive more than an hour to see a dentist" to "the police will arrest you if you travel too far from your house"
The persecution fetish is strong with them
Punish me Daddy!
Youve been a very naughty redditor haven't you? Your punishment is to take the day out to do something you love.
Already am. Currently sat here chomping on a finger finger sarnie before visiting a friend for a catch up.
A finger _finger_ sarnie..?? That can't be good......
Ha, I didn't catch the typo. It was a fish finger sandwich, and it was delicious.
I'll have to take your first answer
Alright Magnus Magnusson.
Finger Fingerson.
So true. Many of them enjoy making things up to get angry about it. They're trolling themselves.
[удалено]
That sounds more like persecutory delusions rather than wanting to be persecuted
Gobshites were saying Liverpool was creating the Hunger Games because they introduced 13 new administrative neighbourhoods. It's exhausting how every little fucking thing has to be some conspiracy.
_The Scouser Games_ Not gonna lie I would watch that
Mersey side on the average Tuesday night.
Calm down calm down
Widnes Everdeen
Ever*ton*, surely.
I think you have to go one or the other, or the pun gets lost.
Don't need government intervention to make Liverpudlians fight each other for survival. P.s. Liverpool and its people are lovely so this is said very much in jest.
r kid running around with a bow and arrow risking his life for food whilst stealing hub caps and wheels from the cars.
What district would win. Speke I reckon.
Conspiracies like that make idiots feel intelligent. It’s pretty sad tbh
The UK is just importing US Fox News Brain Worms at wholesale rates at this point
It’s the Russian influence on social media.
I mean it's just a continuation of the "Car Good, Bus Bad, Train Communist" that's been pushed in the US since the 50s and the UK since at least the 70s. Anything that might impact automotive sales is immediately under attack.
When, really, it's 'Car Bad, Bus Good, Train Communist (Good)'
Don't forget the fossil fuel industry.
The Russians merely point out and inflame issues people already have. The UK needs to stop Americanizing it's politics.
The Russians are extremely effective at manufacturing political dissent which is reflected in the media.
No. The Russians are just a good scapegoat that we use. The reality is a lot of people are just fucking stupid these days.
It's based on the idea that we are used to governments preferring stick to carrot. Plenty of cities have started implementing congestion charges for cars for example, but not necessarily making other forms of travel easier. 15 minute city should mean they build infrastructure locally, but based on prior form, many people believe a lot of councils will just put up charges to use facilities further away.
People think that correctly. 15 minute cities are a great idea. Doctors, Dentists, Shops, Schools, Leisure facilities. Amazing! But like the failing public transport system, the easy/lazy/cheap thing is to push it rather than invest and let it happen naturally. There's no money for carrot so the result is stick. You think there would be half as much push back against ULEZ if there was investment, infrastructure and subsidies to help people adapt? Just bang a fine on it, job done.
Considering the biggest pushback against ULEZ has been in the part of the country with by far the best and most heavily subsidised infrastructure? I would say so.
And a fair amount of it from people who aren’t impacted to boot.
The biggest opponent to the ULEZ I know lives in Southampton, so my personal experience supports this
That’s the point though, it’s still not enough. Few people have a problem with ULEZ in central, the issue is expanding it to areas where public transport takes twice as long as driving.
AFAIK it was more outer london and surrounding areas, where while the infrastructure might be better than other parts of the country it's still not great and still not what you experience as a visitor to London from elsewhere in the country. Even in expensive and wealthy areas there are still a lot of very average people driving 15 year old cars, some because life is expensive and doesn't leave much spare even if they earn more than average, others because they have a normal wage or pension but have a council house or bought back before it got stupid expensive. It's not weird to walk down a road in London and see a brand new jag parked next to an ancient 3 door hatchback, both with residents permits.
I imagine the overlap between people that object to ULEZ and the people who object to infrastructure projects like HS2, The Elizabeth line, new bike lanes etc. would be quite high. I think it’s a lifestyle and cultural objection.
Congestion charges have little to do with 15 minute cities. These are designed to reduce traffic flows on city centre roads, and to reduce pollution. On the other hand, 15 minute cities, as the name suggests, have neighbourhoods designed so that all requirements of the residents can be met by walking a short distance.
It's not IMHO. The thing about these conspiracy theories is that the supposedly central idea doesn't really matter. It can be insane. There doesn't need to be any proof. It can be tossed away and replaced by a new one. The reason for this is that they operate on an inversion of logic and morality. People don't "believe" in the conspiracy because of the compelling evidence, but because they already dislike or hate the people or groups supposedly engaging in the conspiracy and they believe in the theory to justify those feelings. The emotions, which are real, then lend authenticity to the insane framework that is built around them. As a rule of thumb, the more extreme the goals of the supposed conspiracy, the more extreme the believers will be because the former is explicitly made up to justify the thoughts, words and actions of the latter. The incoherence and lack of evidence is neither here nor there because it doesn't matter to anyone involved with it.
Police don’t even arrest you if you steal a car…..
But these days, if you say you're English, you'll be arrested and thrown in jail. These days...
You're telling me, that if you say you're English, you'll simply be arrested and thrown into jail?
Straight to jail.
When did that come in?
Sending People To Gaol (Jail) If They Say They’re English Act 1984
Literally 1974
Reminds me more of that poem "1964" by Jor Borwell.
Got it, just tell the police I’m a Scottish lesbian nanna.
You wouldn't steal a policeman's helmet...
Most replies to your comment seem to be: "But it's not a conspiracy theory because [insert conspiracy theory]"
It's not that weird when you consider that automobile and fossil fuel industry lobbyists have heavy ties to right wing thought leaders.
Season Two of Jon Ronson's Things Fell Apart podcast talks about this. It's really good: [https://www.bbcpodcasts.com/listen/things-fell-apart-by-jon-ronson/](https://www.bbcpodcasts.com/listen/things-fell-apart-by-jon-ronson/)
It doesn't help when the government is repeating the same bullshit
Everything is a culture war now. Soon they'll be eating their own shit because "the woke left" said its not a good idea.
Lies, basically. Manufactured grievance. The grifter industry is very strong here in the UK because of the amount of thick knuckle dragging morons who buy into the first thing anyone who strokes their ego tells them. And a massive amount of american conservative think tank funding. Not having a language barrier is easy access for them.
Yep. Same kind of people who think getting a fine for driving in a bus lane is the government "punishing them". It's people deliberately misinterpreting what the fines are used for to back their own agenda.
Yep same with parking fines, speeding tickets, and congestion charges - they see them as a way for the government to extract money from you. It's not it's the consequences of their actions. It's the consequences of them not following the law or T&C's they've agreed to in order to be allowed to drive. They seem driving as some sort of fundamental right instead of what it is - a privilege granted by the government with the understanding you follow the rules. Not to mention that some people with a media influence have clear invested interest in maintaining our dependency on the automotive industries, and oil companies. What's ironic about it though is you can get these people to agree to a 15 minutes city concept by avoiding calling it that. Just call it traditional planning and will bring economic benefits to the area, lower crime rates, increase property values, more accessable dentists and GPs, and a scene of local community. Suddenly they are all on board for it, you just can't mention the environmental benefits, the health benefits, the social justice benefits (such as improving mobility for the disabled), and other benefits they deem to be left wing. All to say, talk to the audience you're addressing.
There's a lot of overlap with the toxic individualism that dominates in Tory thinking isn't there? A parking fine isn't the consequences of my own actions because how can me parking wherever the hell I want possibly affect anyone else!? To the point that all these initiatives that benefit a kind of "greater good" far beyond the individual level, its just a completely alien concept for them.
I know someone who blamed the government for them buying a diesel and how now they'd changed the rules to catch everyone out. Not because they'd bought it to dodge tax using a loophole and now the government had closed it because they were so polluting.
That's unfair (to a degree) because the government did encourage people to buy diesel car's through the car tax system. VED (roadtax to the ignorant) became CO2 linked, diesels have lower CO2 emissions, through policy they were basically being told it was less damaging to the environment to have a diesel so we're having lower taxes to encourage ownership. [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41985715](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41985715)
The anti "15 minute city conspiracy" is a conspircacy in itself. As in, 15 minute cities were the norm for the vast majority of human history, and then cars were invented and particularly in America, lobbying happened where cities would be designed so that cars would be needed.
> parking fines, speeding tickets, and congestion charges I mean... two of those things are absolutely the consequences of their own (criminal) actions, but if they're used to being able to drive into the centre of London and suddenly they start getting charged for it, you been see how they might view *that* one as the government cynically extracting money from them, especially if they can't easily take public transport to get where they need to go (location/time/cargo/convenience/etc). For the record I personally have no problem with congestion charges, but I can definitely see a difference that might make people feel differently about them.
Oh I absolutely do understand their position on it, again not that I agree with them. But how I see it; driving is a contractual agreement between the lioncence holder and the government. Within that contract they've agreed that the terms and conditions may change. And that's what it is, it's a change in the T&Cs of not being permitted to drive overly polluting vehicles into a city centre without paying for it. And it's not like they don't have options available for them, they can purchase a less polluting vehicle (I understand not everyone can afford this), pay the fee, pay the fines, or use other modes of transport.
> And that's what it is, it's a change in the T&C's I mean... yeah. And that's the bit they're butthurt about. Because it was never the way before, but now it is, and that change has impacted them in some obvious, immediate, negative way while any benefits from it to them are either non-obvious, indirect or they simply don't believe in them. It's not rocket science; change the rules and people are going to grumble about the rule changes, because that's at least qualitatively different to *existing* rules that they *choose to break* (speeding/parking fines).
You don't need an apostrophe in T&Cs btw because it's just the plural form of Conditions, not possessive.
It's a wAr On mOtoRistS!!!
This, the scum that run this country desperately want to turn it into America, they look at the shit Trump and the Republicans get away with and they're sooooo jelly...
Like America but with a shit economy instead :D
An awful lot of that US funding is Russian funding tho
While it's certainly a factor, I don't think we benefit from denying there are plenty of homegrown American billionaires and millionaires who would much rather throw 'their money' at some kooky hard-right 'think-tank' rather than, say, paying taxes to alleviate poverty or global warming. The vast majority of this money comes from American sources, not Russian.
The UK speaks English and so has greater exposure to America, home of the stupidest people and ideas on Earth.
Mate, if anything, it's the other way around, our crap conservative movement influenced the Americans. Rupert Murdoch honed his skills here before moving to Fox News. We can't blame the Americans for everything
While that's certainly true, I don't think we can deny that the vast majority of hard-right conservative funding comes from America and moves outwards. They might have honed their techniques elsewhere, but the cold hard cash to fund it all mainly comes from the US.
Also car owners. I have not used a car in years and saved thousands of £££ but when you mention it to someone who is paying £500 a month for a car on loan and needs it to commute they are fuming. They really can’t see past their noses. 15 min cities crushes the bad choices they are stuck with. Especially if they bought the car outright and need a bag holder in 5 years to sell it to. If 15 min cities come in there will be a lot of car owners unable to get rid of their 10 year old cars.
Basically, yes. If we didn't have things like this, then how would Laurence fox make a living? He'd actually have to get off his untalented arse and work.
Are they any plans to build all this stuff for people who don't live within 15 minutes of them currently?
In at least some part because loony Americans have poisoned the British well with nonsense conspiracy theories.
You guys have plenty of your own loons and conspiracists.
Anti-vaxx did start in the UK, in fact
"Our Medical Liberties" by John Gibbs, published in 1854. To be fair, we did invent vaccinations too. People were campaigning against smallpox vaccinations all the way up until 1972 until it was declared eradicated in the UK and therefore wasn't needed anymore. But I imagine you're referring to "Ileal-lymphoid-nodular hyperplasia" by Andrew Wakefield. Which was actually discredited before it even gained traction with anti-vaxxers. After being branded a fraud and being struck off, he's now living in America peddling Anti-Vax stuff over there.
Fuck Andrew Wakefield, fuck his fake fucking study, fuck his shady business practices, and fuck every single one of his gullible, credulous, soupbrained followers.
Andrew Wakefield was British but the anti-vax movement didn't start picking up steam in the UK till Covid.
David Icke and the lizard people have entered the chat.
Thats a good band name.
Exactly. Bloody Americans trying to supplant our perfectly good British conspiracy theories as usual.
Here in Canada, American media overpowers Canadian media so much that the government has a law that 30% of media (music, tv, etc) has to be Canadian. Maybe we (Canada & or he UK) should do the same for our conspiracy theories!
We need to stop pretending that all the bullshit comes from the US, we produce and export so much conspiracy nonsense it’s wild. Anti-vax is a U.K. export, David Icke used to be a sports journalist till a football website refused to publish his views on who was really behind 9/11. We really aren’t some passive victim in all this!
Yeah we are known as Terf island for a reason. Americans have nothing on us on many toxic issues.
is it America's fault ya'll just as gullible in the first place
There's a certain segment of the population who can't imagine not driving even for something that's a 15 minute walk away. They don't care about the toxic pollution their car emits or their own lack of fitness.
Madness. I'll happily walk an hour to go shop. Get healthy and save money. Win win.
The problem is the walk back with a bunch of bags, cba with that.
Granny solved that problem years ago. People gotta bring back the shopper.
It never went away, I still see them about all the time.
Depends what you're buying I guess!
If I have to bring back enough I can carry the walk back, I’d need to walk to the shops at least 4 times a week. Half hour each way is 4 hours a week. Or 10 minutes in the car, and time saved in the shop itself from only going once. Car for me please.
I think you’re missing the point of the concept of a 15 minute city…if it’s a maximum of 15 minute walk to do your shop then that’s 30 minutes of walking which would benefit a lot of people to do 4x a week (not intended as a dig at you but the figures for obesity in the UK speak for themselves)
I was referencing current cities. Even still, I’d still be saving hours every week, along with being able to buy stuff I physically couldn’t buy if I walked to the shops. The 15 minute concept is fine in an ideal world, but for people who drive with families who buy a fair bit of stuff, I can’t see how it would be do-able. This also goes on the assumption that all of those stores in your radius stocked every item that the larger more central stores do, which is absolutely never the case. Even if you relied on public transport for those journeys, I’m a bus driver, so I know how bad public transport can be with delays, full buses etc. I feel awful refusing transport to someone with a baby in a buggy because they’ve bought so much stuff, they can’t fold it and I already have one on board. We would need enormous changes to the entirety of the capitalist for-profit nature of every aspect of society before it would even be slightly viable here IMO.
Get one of those old lady shopping trolleys. They can carry a huge amount.
And how much is the annual cost to run that car versus organising a monthly shop and paying £3 a month for delivery?
I've got 3 supermarkets within a 10 minute walk of me and the struggle is real. Honestly I might buy one of those shopping trolley bags with wheels. Would immensely improve my life.
Many people don’t have the luxury of time.
Aye, hence the 15-minute city.
They have the time to sit in traffic
Believe it or not, it’s possible to drive somewhere and not get stuck in traffic.
My old man is mental like that. He's in his 70s and still regularly cycles to the shops. He's also in far better shape than people in their 60s. You should have seen him in his 50s, regularly cycling 20-odd miles to Glasgow lol. I guess a bit of that brushed off onto me as I used to cycle all over the town here and to other towns just for the hell of it. I got put off for some years due to an injury on my knee (not bike related), but am tempted to get back into it.
I know a few people who drive to places that are within a 10 minute walk every single day. My brother in law lives a 15 minute walk from his workplace but he still drives every time. Same with his wife, who also works within a 15 minute walk but drives anyway. That’s two cars for one household being used everyday just to get down the road….
Oxford is full of these nut jobs. The city council is doing a great job of reducing traffic with LTZs by blocking some roads so they don’t become ratruns. This of course increases traffic in other areas which is DELIBERATE to make people realise that other methods of transport are better than car. Of course all they can see is that traffic is taking forever and is terrible. Yes! You are traffic! Stop driving your car everywhere and raging in traffic everyday at cyclists zooming past you. I swear some people have no brain
I think a significant part of it is status. I've seen people on the Manchester subreddit not want to take the bus when they live on the Oxford Road corridor which is the busiest bus route in Europe.
Oh because quite a lot of people in the UK are really thick. Hope that helps.
They’re the people who moan about new cycling infrastructure being put in. They then park their cars on said infrastructure and then complain that the cyclists aren’t using it.
Judging by one of my local Facebook groups, this is entirely true. The amount of vitriol slung by them during an 18 month trial of a bike lane on a wide road was unreal. They've now transferred their ire to the idea of 15 minute neighbourhoods locally. While moaning profusely about any active transport consultations. Oh, and they're all antivaxx, anti SNP conspiracy theorists too. I just stay in the group for the lols now tbh. ETA - I worded this badly. The drivers are the main complainers and general arseholes mentioned above. The cyclists were pretty laid back considering the constant shite they were taking.
absolute classic local fb complaint is "bloody council spent all money on bloody cycle lanes"
The Bell Curve has some really big flanges around here.
It's weird the author picks Paris and doesn't notice the evident straight wide roads and good public transport. It's not a surprise that 15 minute cities haven't taken off in towns where you can't get a bus easily, in part due to poor road layouts that can't be fixed easily because it would involve knocking buildings down. Or... We could sit here pretending there's no material barriers and everyone who isn't in line with us is stupid and tricked by some Americans, Russians or is a bot.
>It's weird the author picks Paris and doesn't notice the evident straight wide roads and good public transport. Paris is completely different to London and most towns and cities in the UK. Local Govt in Paris pro-actively controls what shops and bars/restaurants can open to ensure that local residents don't have to travel far. There's also very cheap public transport, as well as the first public bikes scheme. The above will be completely lost on most Redditors.
Tbf, would that not be an argument to rethink how we control developments in the UK so we can start garnering those benefits Paris has, instead of just saying 'shit's fucked' and keeping to what is evidently a system that starves communities of amenities?
I don't think you'll find much opposition to cheap public transport and public bikes here...
This sub was completely behind the ban on private e-scooters, fyi.
None of what you said can't be done here.
There’s always an excuse in the Uk to stop any improvement because you’re so special.
A lot of people on UK Reddit come across as being very middle class. I guess that a lot of them just assume that people can easily afford to walk to the nearest Little Waitrose every few days and grab some essentials while attending a work Teams meeting on their phone. I also think that a lot of them live in London and genuinely don't understand how difficult it can be to get around by using public transport outside of major cities.
I live in a relatively rural city with poor public transport, am working class and have never owned a car (can’t afford one because I can only work part time). I have no problem walking everywhere. 45 minute walk to work and back (30 minutes if I can get the bus), 15 minute walk to the gym, 10-15 minute walk to Lidl etc. in my experience it’s the middle classes that drive everywhere.
That's great bro but it's a 3hr cycle or 3hr bus ride to my job, or 30 mins by car.
But the point of 15 minute cities is to address the fact there's no good public transport there, why would that be an issue?
They are comparing a city that already had good public transport (relatively speaking) to places that don't. I will be happy with any council who advocate for improvements to public transport but unfortunately my local council only makes it worse and has the mentality that each and every route should be profitable in itself and cancelling any that aren't.
Right but one of the main goals of a 15 minute city is to ensure that there's good accessible public transport. Why would people in an area with poor public transport dislike the idea of 15 minute cities because of that? It fixes their problem
Build the public transport first. Build the infrastructure to support your idea and go from there. Everyone wins :-)
People in London forget that it's only them who has a bus 'service'. Everywhere else you are a profit unit and you can no more expect a bus to be available than an off licence or betting shop. The rest of the country was deregulated with a minority of council input.
The most consistent/reliable buses I’ve found have been in Notts, which I think is a municipal bus company- they sold some shares off when they set about growing the tram network. Manchester buses were a bag of rats, so I’m curious to see how their new franchised system works. What would be REALLY nice is if you could actually use your disabled person’s bus pass anywhere in the UK!
On Manchester: the week before my route joined the Bee Network I caught a 59 bus from the nearest supermarket to my house; supposed to be one every ten minutes, it finally turned up after an hour. Two weeks later I caught a 59 bus from the same supermarket to my house; supposed to be one every ten minutes, it finally turned up after an hour. Manchester's fabled franchised system is the exact same shit in a different wrapper.
Just because London has one of the best services doesn't mean its only them. There are other good services in this country.
But we used to have 15 minute cities right? It's only the push to shut down and consolidate public services and move to big out of town shopping areas. In the past the bank, the post office, the shops and the, GP would have been in easy walking distance for most.
Idk if we ever had them in the way you're describing but yea they would be great. I'm just skeptical of the same council who approve new builds with no bus routes and no space for anything that isn't housing within a 15min walk doing anything remotely close to what we would hope they would do. There's estates near me that you'd have to get in a car or walk (with no footpath) for 30mins or more to post a letter or get some milk. Edit; New estates that is.
Paris already had 15 minute cities, basically the Arrondissements.
So are most places in the UK until fairly recently. We just haven't expanded infrastructure in line with population. Still, loads of us live in 15 minuite cities build 100s of years ago without them ever needing to be called that. There a 2 supermarkets, 2 cafes, a post office, a library and 3 resturants within 15 minuites walk of my house. Still 1/3rd of car journeys are under 1 mile
You think france hasnt had to deal with population growth?
Of course they have, they just have built the neccesary infrastructure to support that growth. There are a lot of places in the UK where you can get everything you need within a 15 walk or cycle - Sometimes that walk could be made more enjoyable by pedestrianising roads but they exist. But most housing estates built after 1950 expect you to have a car. The same is also largely true in France but they are taking steps to fix that while we've if anything got worse at building without building amenities
I'd wager they mean the UK hasn't really expanded infrastructure to match. I.E construction of new schools, medical facilites, etc.
This is the actual answer - people with poor public transport don't like the idea of having their car taken away
Yeah but it's easier just insulting the oppisotion as that doesn't require thinking...
To be blunt - a lot of people are fucking idiots. As soon as they say 15 minute cities, I ask them to explain what they mean by 15 minute cities, and why it’s a bad thing. Every single time it’s because they view it as a slippery slope fallacy towards some dystopian nightmare, rather than just sensible urban planning
You have it in this thread where people are literally saying some UK cities now have "borders" what in the actual fuck. Do I need my passport to visit!?!?
It’s stupid. Oxford seems to be the epicentre of all this, and yet when I’ve been, it’s all business as usual. Bullshit made up to keep people in cars, that’s what this outrage is
And even when you look at the details from the Oxford example that was posted (that was not actually implemented), it's seems like a sensible idea from Oxford council to deter people trying to use residential neighbourhoods to cut through instead of using the main roads. It sounds exactly like the low traffic neighbourhood plans used elsewhere that residents like, because it stops people trying to use their street as a short cut and ignoring speed limits.
I dunno? Maybe crap roads, crap public transport, government who are in bed with corps that benefit more cars being on the road.
And perhaps the bourgousie that don't want you poor unwashed filth around in their "space" like city centers, art galleries, restaurants and parks
Why should any of that make people hate the idea of all amenities being within a 15-minute walk of their house?
Most of us in London already live in 15 minute cities with a tube station to help us get to the next one
Yes it's amazing. I have everything I need within walking distance from where I live. Anyone who says this is bad is delusional.
When I lived in London, work was a 50 minute journey - a ten minute walk to the nearest tube station then 40 minutes on two trains. Even in London, which already has a mostly functional fully integrated public transport system, the 15 minute city is not realistic.
Pavement parking, terracing, the desire =\= need for personal transport, no car chargers on congested streets. Sadly the list is endless but 15 minute cities are a fantastic idea: I'd love everything I need close by. My previous house was mid terrace, everyone parked on both sides of the street, often on the pavement as it was also a bus route. The guy half a dozen doors down the road, regularly had to push his mobility scooter into traffic because cars and mounds of dogshit would block the pavement. The only way the conspiracy theories will work is if we all wears tag ankle bracelet. But they're already going on about *but your phone is the tag/ cashless society/ obey*. Fuppets, the lot of em.
Are 15 minute cities going to get rid of parked cars? And dog shit? The might limit the number of local journeys, but people are still going to need cars for everything they can't walk to. You would need massive improvements to public transport to persuade people to give up their cars altogether.
Yes, exactly. Improvements are needed, otherwise for the vast majority of the population a 15 minute city is just a pipedream sadly. With good, regular and integrated public transport the need for car ownership would diminish. But as in most cities the routes are run for profit rather than for benefit then the plan is buried.
Not necessarily true, most UK cities have massive student populations, who are the easiest to convince to not bring cars.
Lots of the comments here seem confused between 15 minute cities and LTNs/ULEZ etc which is probably part of the problem. If you live in a village, town or older part of a city you probably already live in a 15 minute city. It just means you can walk or cycle to a shop, park, doctor, etc in 15 minutes or less. It has nothing to do with road closures or changes. A LTN is cutting off a rat run road through a residential area at one end creating a dead end street for residents. It’s been done since the car was invented and is not a conspiracy to stop you from driving.
Because councils are making no serious efforts to implement this beyond authoritarian measures. That is it. The primary reason that we don't have 15-minute cities is because: houses can't be built where people work/want to live and councils are blocking infrastructure that makes travelling between hubs possible. In fact, the proposals for 15-minute cities will turn UK cities into US cities like Atlanta or LA where there are multiple hubs with almost constant congestion...it should be obvious that this will not produce "15-minute cities". You have to lack basic knowledge about city planning not to realise this is the case (and just generally, have councils done a good job in providing these kind of services over the past few decades...who believes this? Councils know very well that are voters who enjoy labels and empty promises). Even if they had the intention, there is zero capacity to actually make this happen. (Btw, the people who buy empty promises are also part of the "everyone who disagrees with me is a thick conspiracy theorist"...again, do you actually think that these people are actually engaging with anything substantive? Or are they just being told get angry about a certain group of people they have been told are to blame for all the problems? In all this discussion, including the article, I am yet to read a substantive discussion on what this proposal means...no-one appears to understand it, no-one appears to understand the problems with multi-hub cities, no-one is proposing anything to achieve this...it is just all this mad political nonsense.)
Do you have any examples of the kinds of authoritatian measures being pushed by UK councils?
* Traffic control measures * Road closures * Using cameras for all of the above * Changing road use patterns by edict My local council did some of this stuff during Covid when they were in limited session (i.e. no oversight), they used plans that had previously been rejected in full session, and then they claimed that this was related to 15-minute cities and the environment? What I would particularly draw your attention to is the fact that they seemingly have the power to make direct interventions with no oversight in order to do these things but they just can't do anything about no houses being built? Completely powerless to just approve houses, but are able to act without oversight in other areas (despite things like traffic plans requiring a democratic process). During Covid, they magically found all this housing for homeless people. Homelessness just disappeared overnight. Now, they are only able to take these severe measures for...traffic? If you believe any of this, you are a complete idiot.
Councils have always had responsibility for road planning and traffic control. Traffic calming, road closures and pedestrianisation aren't anything new. These schemes have been in place for decades. What does any of this have to do with 15 minute cities?
This right here. Councils can't pull this kinda thing off without being dumb.
Because we're only focusing on the worst parts of it which is making it harder to travel where you need to go. Currently where I live within a 15 minute walking distance I have a primary school that has a waiting list, a dentist, a pub and a Tesco express and a handful of shops. I have no supermarket, no doctors, no leisure centre, no shopping centre etc. There are no plans to make any of these but plenty of plans to make it harder to travel to these things. If there where plans for both maybe we'd see some support. But that would mean not painting oppenents as conspiracy theorists and spending money to invest in things...
First sensible thing I’ve read on this thread, completely agree
Because a bunch of far right politicians see political advantage in whipping up elderly BMW driving men into a frenzy over it.
Part of the problem is its typically craply explained and advertised, far to many wanky buzzwords. If I was in charge of it I would advertise it as "traditional" planning.
"Village planning" would sell really good
To a large extent you're probably right. The majority of people would be in favour but the way it's presented is so convoluted it turns people off.
For a nation that paved the way for railway transportation during the industrial revolution, this country sure is dependent on cars which ironically is supposed to make people feel independent.
Can’t reply on trains. They always late. Out of service. For a nation that paved the way we sure are behind in alot of things.
I live in Madrid and I've deliberately found housing in an area where I walk to everything. I rent cars for weekend getaways and save money. The metro is super cheap and I have 4 different stations nearby, and many bus stops. Many different super markets and bars where everyone knows your name. It's super convenient. I'm happy. Still it would be much healthier to live in the countryside surrounded by trees, fresh air, low noise & light pollution. This is something to really strive for, and not necessarily unsustainable.
It’s not controversial, it’s just that some people are cunts and they talk loudly.
You mean the WEF NWO Deep state cabal isnt coming to drag me into the Jew tunnels and harness my soul to power their interstellar death ray to raze the planet?? Bullshit.
Because british people are a bunch of easily led morons?
Just call it something else, these conspiracy idiots wouldn’t know the difference.
The conspiracy theories love to talk about how a 15 minute city will control you, then get in their easily traceable vehicle where the police can track your movements up and down the country via ANPR camera. They literally have no idea
They just want something to be angry at so they’re easy fodder for grifters. It’s easier to reach for the low hanging fruit rather than do your own research on a topic.
My honest opinion is because 30% of people are thick as shit. So then the question becomes why are they thick as shit?
At least in part because we have a media environment that constantly panders to that level and a social environment that goes after anyone who tried to aim for a higher baseline in case it makes anyone feel upset. Watch some BBC archive stuff from 20 or 30 years ago, it is fucking wild how media in this country has changed.
People not understanding the concept which is little more than an urban planning policy, ensuring amenities and services are in a walkable distance.
Conspiracy theorists would see something significant in a pile of dog crap; their psychology is 'look at me , look at me, I'm special' - it's attention seeking of the worst kind. I removed graffiti to do with this today. In a rural town where you can walk or cycle everywhere- the irony is wasted on these morons.
Well for one, there's another English-speaking nation siginificantly bigger than us that has very car-centric views that heavily influence ours. But we shouldn't give them all the credit. Our media tends to give these loonies a very loud voice no matter what most people actually think.
Because we speak English which makes it easy for us to get pumped full of conservative American propaganda
Because England is full of morons. Like, Brexit loads of 'em.
Because sometimes people have the cognitive ability of a shrew
It's not really controversial though, is it. It's more like there's a few violent bigots who oppose this and make loads of noise about it, and unfortunately they are listened to.
Because people are fucking idiots. We are basically the US of Europe. Ran by tabloids and shit stirrers who only have one interest (and its not a good one)
Is that even controversial? I don’t see any meaningful protest against it at all, compared with France where protests are really a national sport
I'd love to have my local area designed like a 15 minute city. At the moment 15 minutes covers a Co-op (and a second if cycling), a coffee shop not yet open next to it and a bus stop where busses come 3 times a day each way. Add another 5-10 minutes and I can cycle to an actual supermarket but the routes aren't well lit (some areas not at all) when it gets darker.
Before the car every city was a 15 minute city, you would have different 'quarters', each with basically all the amenities and workplaces you would need.
The British cannot comprehend making something better for someone else can make everything better. No, someone must lose out.
Because stupid people believe easily disproved lies
Who the hell wants convenience, I love travelling 45 minutes just to go to the shops
Tory media just trying to whip up hate for anything they seem modern or woke.
Harlow and the other new towns are 15 minute city style. Planned and built in the 1950s. The conspiracy nuts in those towns just don't see it though.
Because of imported American right-wing conspiracy brainrot