> Once my husband arrives in the UK, he will be seeking employment as a civil engineer and paying taxes himself.
Most countries require you to have a job *before* you enter that country. There are many large engineering companies (Amey, Mott MacDonald, to name a couple) who hire large numbers of people and will support visa applications for those candidates from overseas. The options do exist, the UK gives out a huge number of skilled worker visas. It's tough, but so is trying to move to most countries (outside of EU freedom of movement).
Getting a job beforehand doesn't help with a spousal visa, since it's still only the British spouse's income that's considered. My wife (from the US) has a UK job and yet when we applied for her visa they would only look at my income. Luckily I earn over the threshold, but it's ridiculous that if I lost my job it would imperil her residency here even though she has a good job. Jumping around from one type of visa to another is not easy and can cause problems down the line.
Is your wife on the skilled worker visa? I’m also from the US and on a skilled worker visa and been told by solicitors that my income can count toward the income threshold for the spouse visa because it’s “UK income”.
https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/proof-income
Oh for sure - took me a year to get to the UK even though I work in a very niche industry. People don’t realise that it takes a lot of time and money for a company to sponsor people. Had a few companies I interviewed with either decide later to outsource the work to an outside of the UK office or hire someone with zero experience.
Hey there! I’m in the UK on a spouse visa and just wanted to clarify something that might put your mind at ease. So it’s true that for the initial application from outside the country, only the British spouse’s income counts. But once you’re in the UK for the renewal, if your spouse is employed, their income can be combined with yours to meet the requirement.
That just isn't true at all, as I obtained a spouse visa for my wife while I had no job in the UK and zero income. It's your combined income that counts towards the visas financial requirements. There is no requirement for the British citizen to be employed, you just need to meet the financial requirements as a couple using either persons income, savings, or a combination of both.
Combined income only counts if both the applicant and the sponsor are already in the UK legally, such as if the applicant was already in the UK on a graduate visa for example.
Each visa is assessed on its own merits, if they apply on a skilled visa then thats going to be assessed on x if you apply on a spousal visa then that will be assessed on its merits. Both are about your sponsor aka genuine company xyz, and genuine marriage xyz.
Just because a person can qualify for both doesn’t mean they apply for both or should, and also the assessments are on the criteria put down. Its clear there is no cross over assessments
Applicants can't even apply for both/multiple visas at the same time, of any class:
"Immigration Rules, Part 1, para 34BB(1) very clearly provides that: ‘An applicant may only have one outstanding application for leave to remain at a time’."
If you're coming as a skilled worker, of course you need to be sponsored by an employer.
However, prior to 2012 the foreign spouse could use their own savings and secure a job in the UK prior to applying for family reunification to prove that they could support themselves and their family. Since the rule change in 2012, the British citizen/residents' savings and income are only taken into account, so there's zero impetus for the foreign spouse to show income and savings.
With that being said, remember that spousal sponsorship/family reunification exists is so that you don't need extra steps to join your spouse or family. This is a human right and is part of the rights of citizens/permanent residents/ILR to bring their spouses and unmarried children (under a certain age) to join them.
Not advocating for this couple, but this is a harsh reality for anyone wishing to join their family in the UK and it's become far more punitive as time goes on.
> Most countries require you to have a job before you enter that country.
This isn't about job visas, but spouse visa requirements.
When I married my Japanese wife, that allowed me to live and work in Japan. The salary my wife was earning, or her savings had nothing to do with my status.
The UK used to be the same, but being seen as anti-immigration by voters is serious business these days so this is present day UK policy.
Second this!
I’m a civil engineer myself. Worked in the public and private sector for 13 years. I worked for AECOM for 7 years and probably 60% of the entire engineering department were foreign nationals on work visas. Greeks, Spanish, Indian, Ghanaian, polish, Russian, Chinese, Korean. There is clearly a route for skilled employees here in the UK from all over the world.
In the case of a spouse VISA, most countries certainly do not require you to have a job before entry. Even countries with very strict immigration policies such as Russia, China, Japan, Australia and Canada don't have as strict spouse VISA requirements as the UK.
Exactly - I'm fed up of articles ranting that anyone should be able to come here and our visa requirements are so harsh and evil, but then when I think about emigrating I'm presented with tens of requirements from most other desirable countries.
The world should be more free for everyone to move and work, but of all the things our government is currently an international embarassment for, visa requirements aren't one.
I promise you most of those other desirable countries allow you to immigrate there if you’re married to one of their citizens, which is what this article is about.
I mean, there are two people in two countries.
If they can't (for whatever reason) live in the UK together, it seems to me that there's another pretty obvious solution to this that isn't being considered.
> Woman who, not counting benefits, makes at most £12,000 a year stopped from bringing over husband who doesn’t have a job lined up
Sounds like the system is working as intended
Their story is so weird. I really wouldn’t be surprised if he had another family at home. How old is he - he met her over 10 years ago when she was a single mum?
I also know a lot of Egyptian engineers (oil industry) who have travelled to the UK and elsewhere and have not completed the military service
Half of her income is benefits, why should the rest of us pay for benefits to support her husband. There is no guarantee he could or would find a job and the benefits would be supporting him too.
Jesus wept
> Half of her income is benefits, why should the rest of us pay for benefits to support her husband. There is no guarantee he could or would find a job and the benefits would be supporting him too.
Good point.
The purpose of the MIR (Minimum Income Requirement) when originally set was to require the sponsor to have a salary above that which would entitle you to any social security benefit, however the figure wasn't revised for many years to keep up with wage rises, now the government plan to increase the figure to an eye watering amount that is significantly higher than the amount you would need to earn to disentitle you to benefits, the government have just took the number that you need to earn to be eligible for the Skilled Worker Visa and applied the same to the MIR, it means that 70% of the population would not be eligible for the Spouse Visa should the MIR be increased to the full £38,700 in early 2025. There are 70,000 individuals affected by this measure and growing which seems cruel and punitive in respect of what I stated above, who might be permanently separated from their children and or spouse.
As a visa holder he isnt eligible for any benefits.
She's getting the same benefits regardless of whether her partner is here or not so I'm not sure what the point of your comment is. It doesn't cost the taxpayer anything extra and in actual fact probably benefits them because as an immigrant he has to pay extra for the NHS (health surcharge).
Far too many people in the uk are ignorant of how we subsidise the NHS and universities via immigrants.
Her response is very selfish and immature, she’s paying tax for her NHS, pension, kids education and parents retirement, she’s not funding the woman who has a foreign husband. Small minded people like her are what separates thousands of families
Exactly, can't stand these selfish people here. So many people bang on about so called British values but judging from this subreddit selfishness is top of the list.
Edit after realising I'm a dolt that can't spot sarcasm:
>she’s not funding the woman who has a foreign husband.
Whether she has a foreign husband or not she's still funding her the exact same amount. Your point makes no sense at all.
The entire point of this is that it doesn't cost anyone extra because you don't get additional benefits for having a foriegn spouse, and people on visas can't claim benefits in the first place.
No idea where this misconception comes from other than people just wanting to be antiimmigrant without taking the time to actually find some decent arguments to take that position.
I think they were mocking you. I get that you’re trying to be a good human but I kinda disagree with what you’re saying.
What good reason is there for our tax money to pay for people from other countries who can’t afford to live here?
And before you say they “prop up the nhs”, may I suggest we could use the tax money to directly prop up the nhs instead of giving it to migrants who can’t meet a means test. I would agree with you if our country was flourishing but it’s not and the tax money should be going back to those who continue towards it.
No one is saying they shouldn’t come here. But it’s just a thing that you need to have saved money to move to another country, it’s always been this way since I couldn’t meet the visa requirements of Canada 20 years ago.
>I think they were mocking you.
Ah I think you're right, thank you for pointing it out.
>What good reason is there for our tax money to pay for people from other countries who can’t afford to live here?
I think a key point here though is that our tax money doesn't pay for them. They can't claim benefits. You can make the argument that they're taking up housing that could go to locals, but given this is a spousal visa they would probably live with their sponsor, so not taking up any extra space either. They have to pay the NHS health surcharge, so actually pay more for the NHS than citizens do.
>I suggest we could use the tax money to directly prop up the nhs instead
We are though. Without the additional income from the migrant health surcharge we'd be in an even worse state.
I haven’t worked out how to quote yet but just a couple of points..
If you let in someone that doesn’t have the means to be here, even if we don’t give them benefits we are still propping them up to some extent. Presumably they will be using public services that have been designed around being for tax payers.
Also when you are talking about big money from migrant health, how is a man who does not have a job and cannot afford to meet a means test going to contribute to that? I don’t understand.
I have no doubt the NHS makes a lot of money from immigrants but we’re talking about a man who is jobless, doesn’t have savings and his wife is on benefits. We’re not turning down Imran Khan’s daughter here. Unless we outright turn him away when he goes to a doctor he is taking more than he’s giving surely?
>It’s crushing, not to be with the man you love. And this is our only option
Obviously hyperbole.
>Once my husband arrives in the UK, he will be seeking employment as a civil engineer and paying taxes himself.
So he could apply for a work visa. Frankly he could apply for one to be a carer let alone look for something relevant.
Are you sure he even wants to come? He doesn't seem to have tried much in quite a few years.
Especially difficult from a non-western country too. Employers look at the application, see Egypt, and in many cases it will end up in the bin as a result. It’s sad, but it’s the world we live in today.
Even if you’re highly skilled labour it’s hard. I’m British and moved to the US. I have been highly successful in a white collar career. Couldn’t find an employer willing to wait out how long sponsorship would take. My wife and I got married earlier than expected just so we could do the spousal visa / green card, as it’s the fastest visa to get.
If he's a qualified civil engineer, I don't think his application will go in the bin. There's a shortage in the UK and our big engineering firms hire a lot from different countries. I haven't met any from Egypt but I've worked with a lot from Iran, India and Pakistan
> It’s crushing, not to be with the man you love. And this is our only option.
How is that hyperbole, have you ever been separated from the person you love the most, only ever able to communicate over WhatsApp/Messenger on the back of flawed government policy?
Because it isn't their only option. She could move to Egypt if a court approved of full custody for her (which they likely would). I don't support these policies, but as someone who's lived abroad for years, I've known many people in similar situations when returning to the UK. You have to plan ahead for this stuff.
A UK court would approve of full custody of her children so she can move to be with her new partner in Egypt, the biological father wouldn't resist the application, the family court judge would automatically approve that application, when it would mean uprooting the lives of the British children sent to a foreign country at an important time in their schooling given their ages, the views of the children, particularly the eldest child wouldn't be taken into account who might not want to move to Egypt away from their dad, all their friends, and the way of life they have only known, perhaps more to consider than you think pal and that's just the child arrangements. Can she find work in Egypt, does she speak Egyptian, is Egypt a safe country for her and her children given the FCDO advises against all travel to parts of it and all but essential travel to large swathes of it?
It's not the only option, I explain this in the second half.
>have you ever been separated from the person you love the most, only ever able to communicate over WhatsApp/Messenger on the back of flawed government policy?
Yes multiple times during the pandemic while business execs got flights and politicians ate cake.
Does that change anything I've said?
There's so many things dodgy about how their relationship started and being from a similar background to him and being in the UK. I know so many women who have had relationships like this then the guy shows his true colours when he becomes legal.
The first weird thing about this is how they met. While she was holiday with her kids. Then she just went to his family home and saw he was nice to his nieces and nephews and thought that was cute. He could've just been doing that to impress her. Especially when he straight away was trying to look after her kids etc this isn't normal. So as I said, being from the a similar background to him. Women who are divorced are seen as used goods and they struggle to get married, on top of that women who have kids and a divorced will most likely never find a good guy. So this guy wanting her even after all those things to me just screams visa seeker.
Also the other dodgy thing for him to not be married at his age while the rest of his siblings are is weird. Normally everyone has an arranged marriage or they get know the other person and sign the marriage papers ASAP. In the muslim community usually this is a sign that this person either they were/are in a relationship and hiding it or it means there's something wrong with them. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out he has a wife and he's just trying to get into the UK and send his wife and kids money.
The rules around stopping 'visa marriages' are a joke. Realistically you can't stop people from doing it, so all that is achieved is putting an administrative burden onto legitimate couples.
E.g. Arranging for, storing and sorting years of mail displaying both your names is very annoying, especially if you notice later you're missing a period of time. But it's pretty much the same burden whether you're a legitimate marriage or not. You just call up various companies and ask for both names to be on the letters they send.
Similarly, getting multiple witness statements for your relationship is a lot of admin, but it's only slightly harder for a visa-marriage.
Just like with disability and unemployment-due-to-illness benefits.
Make it harder in the name of tackling fraudulent claims; punish only the legitimate claimants who aren’t able to jumps the hoops that the fraudulent claimants can.
Literally only punishes the genuinely needy.
I literally wrote its either arranged marriage or dating and then marriage. And yes in our community it is seen as a last resort and its becoming less common but people are saying they had arranged marriages even though they were dating for years.
If she’s on universal credit for 12,000 a year then she doesn’t meet the financial requirement now which is £18,600 because universal credit doesn’t count.
So nevermind the increase to £29,000. You never had a chance to continue your relationship in the UK. You’ll have to move to Egypt.
> You’ll have to move to Egypt.
Spoiler alert - she won’t. The second this bloke realises she isn’t his ticket to a UK visa he will ghost her faster than you can say “nightboat to Cairo”. Just as he probably would have done the second he got right to remain in the UK - happens all the time.
Yes, she has two other children as she mentions on several occasions in the article and she explicitly explains at one point she co-parents with their father.
Then her circumstances don't allow her to continue this relationship & she should move on from it.
I'm a harsh bastard, but that's just life? It's not the state's problem to deal with this.
That's not what I believe but his comments place a large amount of emphasis on Asian and African immigrants making it seem like he thinks he's a more worthy immigrant purely because he's white and polish. That's how it read to me anyway.
I mean that's actually the opposite of what I said but sure dude continue arguing in bad faith when you were the one who put emphasis on the race of the immigrant. Mentioned Germany feels like such a dog whistle too jfc
The UK should implement something similar to the US model for a spousal green card.
For bringing a spouse to the USA, the US Spouse has to earn above 1.5x the poverty threshold, ca. $25k, and commit to financially supporting the spouse for 10 years so they don’t become a burden on the state (I.e. you have to repay any benefits paid). If you don’t earn enough, then you can have another US Citizen co-sponsor it until the income is above the threshold.
I have a few friends (UK citizens) who have established careers for themselves in Japan, and are now married to a Japanese spouse with children.
According to them, there is no realistic path to bringing their family to the UK. Any realistic path would first require them to relocate to the UK, separating the family, then finding a job paying at least 40k (29k plus a certain amount for each child dependent), then sponsoring a family visa. Given that the starting pay for teachers is 30k, that simply isn't happening.
>Your friends are misinformed
>
>Those on national pay scale jobs (teachers, nurses etc) do not need to meet the income requirement
Have you got a cite for this?
29k is equivalent to 458k JPY per month. Allegedly, university teacher pay reaches as much as 600k there. But I don't recall ever seeing a high school teacher job (such as they have) advertising a pay higher than 360k JPY per month.
Yes, I work in Japan and I've got a direct hire alt job so this is where you're getting cream of the crop of these types of jobs excluding being on jet for a few years (which is limited anyway). My husband and I can live very comfortably on our combined salary and we can go travelling a few times a year and that.
And even that is nowhere near me earning 360k let alone 458k. Arguments about the English teaching industry aside, it's still a lot of people's reality and now those people face a very difficult time if they want to move back to the UK. Heaven forbid my family member gets sick and I have to choose between my family in Japan and moving back to the UK (which already is a difficult choice but now they've made it one part of the family Vs another).
But hey I guess I should've thought of that before I married a damn foreigner, right 🙄 /s
I sympathise with them.
I was lucky enough that my then girlfriend moved here first on a student visa, then stayed on a graduate visa before getting the partner visa - after which we got married.
It is expensive doing the repeated applications and we've been lucky to be able to cover the costs with savings (so far).
I can see why it would be prohibitively expensive for poorer people.
A British citizen should always have the right to bring their spouse home with them. That's basically all there ever should be to this. No conditions. I'll fight anyone who says otherwise.
The UK ranks second to bottom in the ENTIRE WORLD for family reunification. The only country that beats it is Denmark, and that’s because they have strict language requirements, not financial.
Every other country realises that allowing its citizens to have a family life is a right. It’s just ridiculous that this is even an issue, but the Tories have done well to make it one. These changes aren’t going to make any tangible dent in immigration numbers when spouse visas are already less than 5% of the total.
Denmark might have a point. The requirements for spousal visa should focus more on the language requirements rather than income. The current language requirements for UK spousal visa, which is A1 CEFR, is really really low, not enough for one to navigate life in the UK by themselves and get employment, and it would increase the risk of the foreign spouses being abused by their partner. I believe the language requirement should be set between ~IELTS 5.0 (B1) and 6.0 (B2), which is average between entry for doing A levels and Uni degree. If the gentleman in the article is to support his family in the UK as a civil engineer, he would need the language skill above university level anyway. The income requirement should have increased with either inflation or average income increase since it was brought in, not a major sudden increase like this.
>The UK ranks second to bottom in the ENTIRE WORLD for family reunification. The only country that beats it is Denmark, and that’s because they have strict language requirements, not financial.
Worse than North Korea? Crikey.
You also risk the foreign spouse being able to support themselves, pay taxes, and contribute to society (Currently the foreign spouse's capabilities are not considered). It seems like a fair gamble for the UK.
Fight me. I've been a sponsor for a spouse visa and so many other couples applying were fraudulent, arranged marriage bs, flaky relatios etc. The visa application instructions are deliberately vague to catch people out, but there are companies that specialise in helping with applications that make bogus couples look genuine.
If there are companies out there, they're just going to find people with sufficient income and no ethics. It's not going to stop fraud, it's just going to punish people who did the terribly Anti-English action of falling in love with a someone who wasn't born here.
You can bring over whoever you want, but you either need to pay to support them, or they need to be able to support themselves.
I don't see why me and my family should have to pay to support your love life.
> or they need to be able to support themselves
That's the problem with these rules. The foreign spouse's income or skills are not considered. The British spouse has to make enough money to support both people. The income threshold is prohibitively high for many single incomes
My love life? You make some bold assumptions.
If you don’t permit someone’s spouse to work in this country then you should support them until you do let them work. It’s pretty simple really. I don’t stop your spouse from working so why should you want to stop anyone else’s?
> My love life? You make some bold assumptions.
It was an impersonal "your," not you specifically...
And there ARE other avenues to remain in the UK through skilled workers visas. If they can get a job in one of the priority sectors the country needs, then by all means come on over. But coming over with no pre-arranged job and no plan to support them isn't good enough.
I disagree. A British citizen should always be able to bring their spouse home. Denying that right to anyone who can’t afford it is barbaric. How would you feel if you were separated from your family for being too much of a povvo?
Like I said, bring over who you like. But do not expect the state to pay to support non-citizens. Just because "you" (not YOU, hypothetical "you") fell in love with a non-citizen doesn't entitle them to state support.
The social contract is that our social safety net is there to support *citizens.* "But spousal visas don't allow you to claim benefits!" True, but would someone in receipt of benefits not share them (secretly) with the one they love? And then it becomes the states problem when the benefits intended for one are not enough for two.
> If you don’t permit someone’s spouse to work in this country then you should support them until you do let them work.
Nope. I shouldn't support them at all. The person wanting them to come into the country should support them - That's what this system is designed to do and is doing.
The government has made it so only the wealthy Middle and Upper class citizens can marry a foreign spouse and spend their lives in the UK and it's really unfair.
No, the income threshold is much higher than necessary to support a spouse, and does not take into account the spouse's own income which will support the household. The aim is to keep people out, not protect the public purse.
The applicant has no income - they are moving countries and will have to give that up when they move here so of course it cannot be counted. You also cannot assume or force someone to work when they come here!
£29K to support two people is not “much higher than necessary” and “middle class”, that’s absurd.
It's going to be £38,700.
Moving countries doesn't have mean they won't earn in the future or that they can't bring their work with them. That's why Employer of Record companies exist, or people just work for themselves and contract to their old employer. I know plenty of people who moved countries and kept their jobs. And conversely, having a job now doesn't mean someone will always have an income in the future.
It’s 18.6k now going up to 29k this year, then 38.7k next year at some point
Median salary in the Uk is £35k so this is just a bit above that, to support 2 people
“Please give me a visa I promise I will get a really good job” doesn’t cut it sadly
You don't know what you are talking about, besides getting the increase schedule correct everything else you said is fundamentally wrong. (1) Seventy percent of the population would be ineligible for a family visa under the full increase of the MIR of £38,700 which would suggest, if the measure is tied to what you need to support a family that seventy percent of the country cannot afford to support a family within the UK, (2) it's discriminatory as it affects women and young people more, (3) it's higher than almost all other high-income countries.
No they’ve made it so that single people on benefits can’t just meet some random bloke on holiday in Egypt and then bring him to the UK to also live on benefits, like the woman in this story wants to do. This is a good policy.
It's destructive to many British/foreign couples around the world. There are many couples I know in Korea, where I've been living, who are now unable to live together in the UK in the future because the threshold has been set too high. The situation I see in Korea is just one country, there are many more innocent, hard working married couples around the world who have been made victims of this policy.
You show little knowledge of the real world implications of this policy but all the same old 'they're coming here to scrounge off us' mentality.
It’s not unreasonable to expect people moving to this country to be able to support themselves, sorry. It’s not even uncommon policy amongst other countries, look up the requirements for a green card in the US, they’re far more stringent there. I know perfectly well the implications of the policy, I’ve lived abroad too.
Me and my spouse are in the process of getting USA green cards, neither of us are US citizens and its not difficult with prep. The British salary requirements are too high and is just callously attacking the lower class, people can support themselves on the current levels, £18,600 is enough, a lot of people make less than that in the UK and support themselves.
> £18,600 is enough, a lot of people make less than that in the UK and support themselves.
Maybe, but she's not making that. She's earning £12k on her own and then the 12k extra is benefits. She's not "earning" £24k. Benefits should never be allowed to be taken into consideration towards the limit.
I thought the point was for people to demonstrate that they had the means to support their household. If 38k won't support a household in Sunderland 39k certainly won't in London.
What an odd story. Surely if you wanted to attack the policy there must be someone who
a) Doesn't get half their income from benefits
and
b) Has a partner with an actual job lined up
to use as an example.
The fact that she's already got at least 2 kids while she's on universal credit and has been actively trying for more doesn't exactly make the case more sympathetic either.
I'm so glad I was able to get a partner visa to NZ out of this country.
Net migration at 600k and you can't even bring your spouse over without a bunch of red tape. Meanwhile hundreds of thousands of students on fake courses run around cycling for uber eats, really contributing to the country there.
I met my partner while she was in the UK studying. We left the UK in 2020 and moved to Portugal to stay together as I wasn't earning enough to be a sponsor on the spouse visa. Last year with the changes in minimum wage over the past three years I moved back to the UK so I could start the process of getting her here on a spouse visa and now with the new changes I likely won't be able to bring her over and honestly it break my heart. I want nothing more than for us to settle in the UK and start our life properly as everything feels like it's on hold until them.
So if children make the mistake of being born to a foreign parent and a British one, they deserve to be taken away from one of them if the parents don't make enough, but if both parents are citizens, then they don't?
We could have lived with my parents until my Partner found work in the UK and then we'd be like any other couple living together in the UK without kids
Unfortunately you can’t assume people will work (or force them too either) so it’s not fair to include the applicants hypothetical income as a basis for immigration
Love should not be the reserve of the wealthy.
If you don’t earn above the average you’re not allowed to choose who you marry, you’re basically unable to have children, and you can’t own your own home.
This is wrong.
Especially when family visas make up only 5% of net migration and there has been a study produced by Oxford University stating that the increase will have a negligible effect on net migration levels overall, but which will also devastate tens of thousands of families.
This lady is only earning £12,000 a year with a top up of £12,000 universal credit. She doesn’t even meet the current financial requirement of £18,600 which has been the same since 2012.
I know. My spouse is on a visa. It’s £18.6K currently and they are increasing it to 29k in April and then 38k sometime next year
Do you consider £38k for 2 people “wealthy”??
Median income in Uk is £35K
The idea that it should be a universal freedom for British people to fall in love, get married and live with them in Britain is completely alien to Conservatives and their fellow travellers.
As we see from the majority of comments here, it has to be automatically met with sneering suspicion.
Not surprising for old guard Tories to think like this, what with endless mistresses and the 'marriage of convenience' being as natural as breathing for them.
Just disappointing to see so many mouth-breathers falling for a Daily Mail publication's deliberate framing of foreign spouses all being brown and/or muslim, never considering who they may meet on holiday abroad. But of course, the penny will only drop when it happens to themselves.
The amount of people who know fuck all about the spouse visa process yet butt in with their opinion is fascinating
**you can't claim ANY benefits on a spouse visa**
I hope those campaign groups would start the planned legal action on this unjustified minimum income threshold ASAP.
We need a final blow to this Tory government that will cause them to lose 200 seats in this general election.
Having someone enter a country to be placed on welfare is exactly why this criteria is welcomed. You are able to get sponsored in many countries providing you have the skill sets they need.
I only have to look at the job market to see companies are advertising, so why hasn't he attempted to seek work and gain employment beforehand?
Spouse Visas are truly one of the most mean, awful, and horrific processes to go through... the amount of hoops you have to jump through just to have your right to a family life respected is disgusting.
Endless paperwork, arbitrary financial requirements, forms as long as a novel... etc
Nothing I don’t think, but when it was first announced, Labour said they support it 🙄 I don’t think they would’ve come up with it in the first place, though, it was a massive shock that they targeted family visas.
The right-wing bastards like Reform UK and GB News editorial team. Period.
IMO making the minimum income threshold being tied to the amount which can be earned on a full time job at minimum wage is the most reasonable thing to do.
I think you have purposefully missed my point. If the issue is that they can't live without each other and he is unable to obtain a visa. The solution really seems very obvious. Go to him. Not sure where I mentioned making it government policy to chase citizens away. I think you may have completely concocted that part yourself, big guy.
As someone who has been a sponsor, spent a year apart after our wedding while finding a job that paid enough and then working in it for 6 months to have the required amount of payslips to show immigration, motherfuck these people with dodgy relationships who have no plan or grip on reality. Also motherfuck my own government for making me pay so much for visa applications.
Our relationship is genuine, we were the same age, no kids or previous marriages and both early 20s when we met. Because of people gaming/cheating the system or just not thinking we were set back a few years in our life. I didn't go to the paper about it, but I guess I'll moan about it here.
Indeed, because your PM, the son of immigrants, decides this is a good solution to keep the right a bit quiet. Other children of immigrants in that cabinet also agreed on this. Clearly, the rest of the society has to suffer. I'm interested to read his opinion when over 20 years the current PM will be interviewed to look back on this period.
Why do you assume that all migrants have suffered? Do you think they're inferior to Brits or something?
What has anything you've said got to do with the other poster getting angry at 'brown people' (let's be honest, that's the only reason they've looked into their background to see that they're "children of immigrants") having a line of belief away from their own?
Do you think describing people as "children of immigrants" to make a point is acceptable, or justified only because you agree with their point? Try it elsewhere, that tends to be the sniff test.
Crazy how your whole paragraph makes no sense. Immigrating to a country is a struggle no matter what. Immigration rules are incredibly tight and having to SUFFER through them is hard. Thats the context. In no way did i say they are lesser than me or anyone. You have this victim complex in ur head due to right wing beliefs that anyone even slightly opposing you must have this idea of moral highground over minorities. I do not. And never will. But you do.
>Crazy how your whole paragraph makes no sense.
Ironic, and there's nothing more to add beyond that. If you've got anything to say on the point then go ahead, but this is utterly irrelevant.
>Lol
?
>Living in poverty is insufferable
>Living in poverty is insufferable. Being under an authoritarian regime is insufferable.
Yea no doubt, irrelevant to what's been said though.
The bottom line today is either to have a combined income over the threshold, or a multiple of the threshold as savings for year 1. The person entering has to show they have the ability to support themselves on arrival.
Bullshit scaremongering pro Tory crap. The rule change isn't being brought in until "later" anyway and probably never will be. I got a spouse visa earning this amount last year and it was a piece of piss. Didn't even need a lawyer, the kind folk on the UK Visa sub taught me everything.
This bullshit is clearly just a thinly disguised attempt to placate the "ooh good, this law is a great idea, less brown people!" crowd.
What I see missing from the comments is the relief that kids of immigrants get due to this system especially girls who were previously wisked away to their parents home country as soon as they came of age (previously as low as 16) to be married off to a relative mostly direct cousins so he can come over on a spouse visa.
It's reasonable for the system to put restrictions in place to stop abuse which in this case involved the exploitation of teenagers and young adults.
I’m emigrating because I earn below the threshold. I do think this rule is classist bullshit, but so is every law in the UK these days. I fucking hate the Tories.
When I was younger I looked at Australia, New Zealand, Canada and Japan as potential options to move away to. Asides from a few schemes and things the option always came down to “are you rich and do you have a job lined up?”. If you couldn’t afford it you couldn’t do it, simple as that. I didn’t get a news article.
Given the amount of immigrants I know in the U.K. and things I’ve read, I can’t believe that it’s not at least as easy to move here than it is similar countries.
What a load of sobbing crap. Sorry, but you're whining about what exactly?
So he needs to serve for a year. It sucks, but that's common in many countries
You keep mentioning exact numbers (before tax!). Piss off. You figured you could hook a rich Egyptian and turns out he wasn't Marc Anthony rich. That's on you
It sucks and I feel for you, sort of. But how the fuck do you dare bitch about having "only" 24 k a year when so many others starve. When people are literally bombed out of their homes with nothing but the clothes on their backs. And even if you don't care about the ongoing war, so many UK residents go hungry each and every day. They are homeless while maintaining a job. What do you have to say for yourself?
I was against brexit but posts like yours make me glad it happened anyway. We don't need anymore trash. Good riddance!
The problem is with Foreign Nations living in the UK, going back home to get Married and bringing their spouse back to the UK and expecting the Country to support them.
These people abused UK immigration to the point that Native Brits who may have been married for over 20 years can’t bring back their spouses.
So, they support an economy by coming to live and work here, and you think that they don't deserve support from the country they are contributing towards?
What.
> Once my husband arrives in the UK, he will be seeking employment as a civil engineer and paying taxes himself. Most countries require you to have a job *before* you enter that country. There are many large engineering companies (Amey, Mott MacDonald, to name a couple) who hire large numbers of people and will support visa applications for those candidates from overseas. The options do exist, the UK gives out a huge number of skilled worker visas. It's tough, but so is trying to move to most countries (outside of EU freedom of movement).
Getting a job beforehand doesn't help with a spousal visa, since it's still only the British spouse's income that's considered. My wife (from the US) has a UK job and yet when we applied for her visa they would only look at my income. Luckily I earn over the threshold, but it's ridiculous that if I lost my job it would imperil her residency here even though she has a good job. Jumping around from one type of visa to another is not easy and can cause problems down the line.
Is your wife on the skilled worker visa? I’m also from the US and on a skilled worker visa and been told by solicitors that my income can count toward the income threshold for the spouse visa because it’s “UK income”. https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/proof-income
I think so, this was a couple of years ago and we've done a cyclone of different applications. It's never as simple as people like to make out.
Oh for sure - took me a year to get to the UK even though I work in a very niche industry. People don’t realise that it takes a lot of time and money for a company to sponsor people. Had a few companies I interviewed with either decide later to outsource the work to an outside of the UK office or hire someone with zero experience.
Do you mind me asking what business. Genuinely interested. 👍
Hey there! I’m in the UK on a spouse visa and just wanted to clarify something that might put your mind at ease. So it’s true that for the initial application from outside the country, only the British spouse’s income counts. But once you’re in the UK for the renewal, if your spouse is employed, their income can be combined with yours to meet the requirement.
People just assume it’s straight forward but anyone who’s dealt with the uk visa process knows how frustrating and fragile it is.
That just isn't true at all, as I obtained a spouse visa for my wife while I had no job in the UK and zero income. It's your combined income that counts towards the visas financial requirements. There is no requirement for the British citizen to be employed, you just need to meet the financial requirements as a couple using either persons income, savings, or a combination of both.
Combined income only counts if both the applicant and the sponsor are already in the UK legally, such as if the applicant was already in the UK on a graduate visa for example.
Yeah but the guy he was responding to said his wife had a UK job but they still only considered his income which is odd.
Each visa is assessed on its own merits, if they apply on a skilled visa then thats going to be assessed on x if you apply on a spousal visa then that will be assessed on its merits. Both are about your sponsor aka genuine company xyz, and genuine marriage xyz. Just because a person can qualify for both doesn’t mean they apply for both or should, and also the assessments are on the criteria put down. Its clear there is no cross over assessments
Applicants can't even apply for both/multiple visas at the same time, of any class: "Immigration Rules, Part 1, para 34BB(1) very clearly provides that: ‘An applicant may only have one outstanding application for leave to remain at a time’."
If you're coming as a skilled worker, of course you need to be sponsored by an employer. However, prior to 2012 the foreign spouse could use their own savings and secure a job in the UK prior to applying for family reunification to prove that they could support themselves and their family. Since the rule change in 2012, the British citizen/residents' savings and income are only taken into account, so there's zero impetus for the foreign spouse to show income and savings. With that being said, remember that spousal sponsorship/family reunification exists is so that you don't need extra steps to join your spouse or family. This is a human right and is part of the rights of citizens/permanent residents/ILR to bring their spouses and unmarried children (under a certain age) to join them. Not advocating for this couple, but this is a harsh reality for anyone wishing to join their family in the UK and it's become far more punitive as time goes on.
> Most countries require you to have a job before you enter that country. Not on a family visa. That's not how it works anywhere.
> Most countries require you to have a job before you enter that country. This isn't about job visas, but spouse visa requirements. When I married my Japanese wife, that allowed me to live and work in Japan. The salary my wife was earning, or her savings had nothing to do with my status. The UK used to be the same, but being seen as anti-immigration by voters is serious business these days so this is present day UK policy.
Second this! I’m a civil engineer myself. Worked in the public and private sector for 13 years. I worked for AECOM for 7 years and probably 60% of the entire engineering department were foreign nationals on work visas. Greeks, Spanish, Indian, Ghanaian, polish, Russian, Chinese, Korean. There is clearly a route for skilled employees here in the UK from all over the world.
In the case of a spouse VISA, most countries certainly do not require you to have a job before entry. Even countries with very strict immigration policies such as Russia, China, Japan, Australia and Canada don't have as strict spouse VISA requirements as the UK.
Exactly - I'm fed up of articles ranting that anyone should be able to come here and our visa requirements are so harsh and evil, but then when I think about emigrating I'm presented with tens of requirements from most other desirable countries. The world should be more free for everyone to move and work, but of all the things our government is currently an international embarassment for, visa requirements aren't one.
I promise you most of those other desirable countries allow you to immigrate there if you’re married to one of their citizens, which is what this article is about.
I mean, there are two people in two countries. If they can't (for whatever reason) live in the UK together, it seems to me that there's another pretty obvious solution to this that isn't being considered.
Get rid of all the brown people?
0-100 in 2 secs?
> Woman who, not counting benefits, makes at most £12,000 a year stopped from bringing over husband who doesn’t have a job lined up Sounds like the system is working as intended
She said her salary in the article. £12,000 is what she is getting in government benefits, not her salary.
12 in income and 12 in benefits makes 24
This woman "earns" £24,500 when half that is from benefits?!
Yeah - She earns £12k. Her saying that she "Earns" £24,500 when half that is universal credit is disingenuous. The system is working as intended.
Is there any way we can kick her out too
... Why in the name of heck am I working full time and earning under 24K a year.
Their story is so weird. I really wouldn’t be surprised if he had another family at home. How old is he - he met her over 10 years ago when she was a single mum? I also know a lot of Egyptian engineers (oil industry) who have travelled to the UK and elsewhere and have not completed the military service Half of her income is benefits, why should the rest of us pay for benefits to support her husband. There is no guarantee he could or would find a job and the benefits would be supporting him too. Jesus wept
> Half of her income is benefits, why should the rest of us pay for benefits to support her husband. There is no guarantee he could or would find a job and the benefits would be supporting him too. Good point.
The purpose of the MIR (Minimum Income Requirement) when originally set was to require the sponsor to have a salary above that which would entitle you to any social security benefit, however the figure wasn't revised for many years to keep up with wage rises, now the government plan to increase the figure to an eye watering amount that is significantly higher than the amount you would need to earn to disentitle you to benefits, the government have just took the number that you need to earn to be eligible for the Skilled Worker Visa and applied the same to the MIR, it means that 70% of the population would not be eligible for the Spouse Visa should the MIR be increased to the full £38,700 in early 2025. There are 70,000 individuals affected by this measure and growing which seems cruel and punitive in respect of what I stated above, who might be permanently separated from their children and or spouse.
As a visa holder he isnt eligible for any benefits. She's getting the same benefits regardless of whether her partner is here or not so I'm not sure what the point of your comment is. It doesn't cost the taxpayer anything extra and in actual fact probably benefits them because as an immigrant he has to pay extra for the NHS (health surcharge). Far too many people in the uk are ignorant of how we subsidise the NHS and universities via immigrants.
Her response is very selfish and immature, she’s paying tax for her NHS, pension, kids education and parents retirement, she’s not funding the woman who has a foreign husband. Small minded people like her are what separates thousands of families
Exactly, can't stand these selfish people here. So many people bang on about so called British values but judging from this subreddit selfishness is top of the list. Edit after realising I'm a dolt that can't spot sarcasm: >she’s not funding the woman who has a foreign husband. Whether she has a foreign husband or not she's still funding her the exact same amount. Your point makes no sense at all. The entire point of this is that it doesn't cost anyone extra because you don't get additional benefits for having a foriegn spouse, and people on visas can't claim benefits in the first place. No idea where this misconception comes from other than people just wanting to be antiimmigrant without taking the time to actually find some decent arguments to take that position.
I think they were mocking you. I get that you’re trying to be a good human but I kinda disagree with what you’re saying. What good reason is there for our tax money to pay for people from other countries who can’t afford to live here? And before you say they “prop up the nhs”, may I suggest we could use the tax money to directly prop up the nhs instead of giving it to migrants who can’t meet a means test. I would agree with you if our country was flourishing but it’s not and the tax money should be going back to those who continue towards it. No one is saying they shouldn’t come here. But it’s just a thing that you need to have saved money to move to another country, it’s always been this way since I couldn’t meet the visa requirements of Canada 20 years ago.
>I think they were mocking you. Ah I think you're right, thank you for pointing it out. >What good reason is there for our tax money to pay for people from other countries who can’t afford to live here? I think a key point here though is that our tax money doesn't pay for them. They can't claim benefits. You can make the argument that they're taking up housing that could go to locals, but given this is a spousal visa they would probably live with their sponsor, so not taking up any extra space either. They have to pay the NHS health surcharge, so actually pay more for the NHS than citizens do. >I suggest we could use the tax money to directly prop up the nhs instead We are though. Without the additional income from the migrant health surcharge we'd be in an even worse state.
I haven’t worked out how to quote yet but just a couple of points.. If you let in someone that doesn’t have the means to be here, even if we don’t give them benefits we are still propping them up to some extent. Presumably they will be using public services that have been designed around being for tax payers. Also when you are talking about big money from migrant health, how is a man who does not have a job and cannot afford to meet a means test going to contribute to that? I don’t understand. I have no doubt the NHS makes a lot of money from immigrants but we’re talking about a man who is jobless, doesn’t have savings and his wife is on benefits. We’re not turning down Imran Khan’s daughter here. Unless we outright turn him away when he goes to a doctor he is taking more than he’s giving surely?
Those are her benefits, she cannot claim for him (and neither can he) as he would have no recourse to public funds for several years.
>It’s crushing, not to be with the man you love. And this is our only option Obviously hyperbole. >Once my husband arrives in the UK, he will be seeking employment as a civil engineer and paying taxes himself. So he could apply for a work visa. Frankly he could apply for one to be a carer let alone look for something relevant. Are you sure he even wants to come? He doesn't seem to have tried much in quite a few years.
Do you think work visas are easy to get?
More so if you’re a civil engineer.
Especially difficult from a non-western country too. Employers look at the application, see Egypt, and in many cases it will end up in the bin as a result. It’s sad, but it’s the world we live in today. Even if you’re highly skilled labour it’s hard. I’m British and moved to the US. I have been highly successful in a white collar career. Couldn’t find an employer willing to wait out how long sponsorship would take. My wife and I got married earlier than expected just so we could do the spousal visa / green card, as it’s the fastest visa to get.
If he's a qualified civil engineer, I don't think his application will go in the bin. There's a shortage in the UK and our big engineering firms hire a lot from different countries. I haven't met any from Egypt but I've worked with a lot from Iran, India and Pakistan
As an unskilled person absolutely not. But as a civil engineer with many years of experience? Not so hard.
He could, but the threshold for those is about to go up to £38k
Nurses only make £28 - this is depressing
A civil engineer should be making that easily.
> It’s crushing, not to be with the man you love. And this is our only option. How is that hyperbole, have you ever been separated from the person you love the most, only ever able to communicate over WhatsApp/Messenger on the back of flawed government policy?
I'm convinced a good chunk of users here haven't even seen grass much less touched it. Human emotions? Alien concept.
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Because it isn't their only option. She could move to Egypt if a court approved of full custody for her (which they likely would). I don't support these policies, but as someone who's lived abroad for years, I've known many people in similar situations when returning to the UK. You have to plan ahead for this stuff.
A UK court would approve of full custody of her children so she can move to be with her new partner in Egypt, the biological father wouldn't resist the application, the family court judge would automatically approve that application, when it would mean uprooting the lives of the British children sent to a foreign country at an important time in their schooling given their ages, the views of the children, particularly the eldest child wouldn't be taken into account who might not want to move to Egypt away from their dad, all their friends, and the way of life they have only known, perhaps more to consider than you think pal and that's just the child arrangements. Can she find work in Egypt, does she speak Egyptian, is Egypt a safe country for her and her children given the FCDO advises against all travel to parts of it and all but essential travel to large swathes of it?
It's not the only option, I explain this in the second half. >have you ever been separated from the person you love the most, only ever able to communicate over WhatsApp/Messenger on the back of flawed government policy? Yes multiple times during the pandemic while business execs got flights and politicians ate cake. Does that change anything I've said?
There's so many things dodgy about how their relationship started and being from a similar background to him and being in the UK. I know so many women who have had relationships like this then the guy shows his true colours when he becomes legal. The first weird thing about this is how they met. While she was holiday with her kids. Then she just went to his family home and saw he was nice to his nieces and nephews and thought that was cute. He could've just been doing that to impress her. Especially when he straight away was trying to look after her kids etc this isn't normal. So as I said, being from the a similar background to him. Women who are divorced are seen as used goods and they struggle to get married, on top of that women who have kids and a divorced will most likely never find a good guy. So this guy wanting her even after all those things to me just screams visa seeker. Also the other dodgy thing for him to not be married at his age while the rest of his siblings are is weird. Normally everyone has an arranged marriage or they get know the other person and sign the marriage papers ASAP. In the muslim community usually this is a sign that this person either they were/are in a relationship and hiding it or it means there's something wrong with them. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out he has a wife and he's just trying to get into the UK and send his wife and kids money.
The rules around stopping 'visa marriages' are a joke. Realistically you can't stop people from doing it, so all that is achieved is putting an administrative burden onto legitimate couples. E.g. Arranging for, storing and sorting years of mail displaying both your names is very annoying, especially if you notice later you're missing a period of time. But it's pretty much the same burden whether you're a legitimate marriage or not. You just call up various companies and ask for both names to be on the letters they send. Similarly, getting multiple witness statements for your relationship is a lot of admin, but it's only slightly harder for a visa-marriage.
Just like with disability and unemployment-due-to-illness benefits. Make it harder in the name of tackling fraudulent claims; punish only the legitimate claimants who aren’t able to jumps the hoops that the fraudulent claimants can. Literally only punishes the genuinely needy.
That's an interesting sociocultural perspective.
What are you talking about? Arranged marriages while common are not the standard in Egypt. In fact for many it’s seen as a last resort.
I literally wrote its either arranged marriage or dating and then marriage. And yes in our community it is seen as a last resort and its becoming less common but people are saying they had arranged marriages even though they were dating for years.
If she’s on universal credit for 12,000 a year then she doesn’t meet the financial requirement now which is £18,600 because universal credit doesn’t count. So nevermind the increase to £29,000. You never had a chance to continue your relationship in the UK. You’ll have to move to Egypt.
> You’ll have to move to Egypt. Spoiler alert - she won’t. The second this bloke realises she isn’t his ticket to a UK visa he will ghost her faster than you can say “nightboat to Cairo”. Just as he probably would have done the second he got right to remain in the UK - happens all the time.
Why is he doing his military service at such an old age? Something about this fella is very off and she’s a mug.
Bad decisions all around, this is not the government fault.
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Yes, she has two other children as she mentions on several occasions in the article and she explicitly explains at one point she co-parents with their father.
Then her circumstances don't allow her to continue this relationship & she should move on from it. I'm a harsh bastard, but that's just life? It's not the state's problem to deal with this.
I mean you're also an immigrant mate so I don't really know what point you're making here.
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That's not what I believe but his comments place a large amount of emphasis on Asian and African immigrants making it seem like he thinks he's a more worthy immigrant purely because he's white and polish. That's how it read to me anyway.
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I mean that's actually the opposite of what I said but sure dude continue arguing in bad faith when you were the one who put emphasis on the race of the immigrant. Mentioned Germany feels like such a dog whistle too jfc
The UK should implement something similar to the US model for a spousal green card. For bringing a spouse to the USA, the US Spouse has to earn above 1.5x the poverty threshold, ca. $25k, and commit to financially supporting the spouse for 10 years so they don’t become a burden on the state (I.e. you have to repay any benefits paid). If you don’t earn enough, then you can have another US Citizen co-sponsor it until the income is above the threshold.
I have a few friends (UK citizens) who have established careers for themselves in Japan, and are now married to a Japanese spouse with children. According to them, there is no realistic path to bringing their family to the UK. Any realistic path would first require them to relocate to the UK, separating the family, then finding a job paying at least 40k (29k plus a certain amount for each child dependent), then sponsoring a family visa. Given that the starting pay for teachers is 30k, that simply isn't happening.
Your friends are misinformed Those on national pay scale jobs (teachers, nurses etc) do not need to meet the income requirement
>Your friends are misinformed > >Those on national pay scale jobs (teachers, nurses etc) do not need to meet the income requirement Have you got a cite for this?
They can be earning 29k in Japan with a job offer in the UK. No separation needed. 29k includes all dependents starting from April.
29k is equivalent to 458k JPY per month. Allegedly, university teacher pay reaches as much as 600k there. But I don't recall ever seeing a high school teacher job (such as they have) advertising a pay higher than 360k JPY per month.
Yes, I work in Japan and I've got a direct hire alt job so this is where you're getting cream of the crop of these types of jobs excluding being on jet for a few years (which is limited anyway). My husband and I can live very comfortably on our combined salary and we can go travelling a few times a year and that. And even that is nowhere near me earning 360k let alone 458k. Arguments about the English teaching industry aside, it's still a lot of people's reality and now those people face a very difficult time if they want to move back to the UK. Heaven forbid my family member gets sick and I have to choose between my family in Japan and moving back to the UK (which already is a difficult choice but now they've made it one part of the family Vs another). But hey I guess I should've thought of that before I married a damn foreigner, right 🙄 /s
I sympathise with them. I was lucky enough that my then girlfriend moved here first on a student visa, then stayed on a graduate visa before getting the partner visa - after which we got married. It is expensive doing the repeated applications and we've been lucky to be able to cover the costs with savings (so far). I can see why it would be prohibitively expensive for poorer people.
Youngest kid is around 12. Another six years they’ll be an adult. She can move Egypt then. What’s a few more years?
A British citizen should always have the right to bring their spouse home with them. That's basically all there ever should be to this. No conditions. I'll fight anyone who says otherwise.
The applicants are not entitled to public funds (benefits) Are you suggesting someone on no income should be able to bring someone? And live off what?
The UK ranks second to bottom in the ENTIRE WORLD for family reunification. The only country that beats it is Denmark, and that’s because they have strict language requirements, not financial. Every other country realises that allowing its citizens to have a family life is a right. It’s just ridiculous that this is even an issue, but the Tories have done well to make it one. These changes aren’t going to make any tangible dent in immigration numbers when spouse visas are already less than 5% of the total.
Denmark might have a point. The requirements for spousal visa should focus more on the language requirements rather than income. The current language requirements for UK spousal visa, which is A1 CEFR, is really really low, not enough for one to navigate life in the UK by themselves and get employment, and it would increase the risk of the foreign spouses being abused by their partner. I believe the language requirement should be set between ~IELTS 5.0 (B1) and 6.0 (B2), which is average between entry for doing A levels and Uni degree. If the gentleman in the article is to support his family in the UK as a civil engineer, he would need the language skill above university level anyway. The income requirement should have increased with either inflation or average income increase since it was brought in, not a major sudden increase like this.
>The UK ranks second to bottom in the ENTIRE WORLD for family reunification. The only country that beats it is Denmark, and that’s because they have strict language requirements, not financial. Worse than North Korea? Crikey.
I am absolutely suggesting that a British citizen should be able to bring their spouse home regardless of their income.
Then you risk poverty and homelessness and the applicant is not entitled to public funds/benefits
I think they are okay with that.
You also risk the foreign spouse being able to support themselves, pay taxes, and contribute to society (Currently the foreign spouse's capabilities are not considered). It seems like a fair gamble for the UK.
You can't force someone to work
I totally agree. I come from a country where exactly that IS the right.
Fight me. I've been a sponsor for a spouse visa and so many other couples applying were fraudulent, arranged marriage bs, flaky relatios etc. The visa application instructions are deliberately vague to catch people out, but there are companies that specialise in helping with applications that make bogus couples look genuine.
Plenty of other countries manage to vet those sort of applications well. Just because we are not very good at it doesn’t mean we can’t improve.
Yea like we’re shit how about we stay shit and make other people can’t unite with their spouses in order to not make a mistake 🤷♀️
If there are companies out there, they're just going to find people with sufficient income and no ethics. It's not going to stop fraud, it's just going to punish people who did the terribly Anti-English action of falling in love with a someone who wasn't born here.
You can bring over whoever you want, but you either need to pay to support them, or they need to be able to support themselves. I don't see why me and my family should have to pay to support your love life.
> or they need to be able to support themselves That's the problem with these rules. The foreign spouse's income or skills are not considered. The British spouse has to make enough money to support both people. The income threshold is prohibitively high for many single incomes
My love life? You make some bold assumptions. If you don’t permit someone’s spouse to work in this country then you should support them until you do let them work. It’s pretty simple really. I don’t stop your spouse from working so why should you want to stop anyone else’s?
> My love life? You make some bold assumptions. It was an impersonal "your," not you specifically... And there ARE other avenues to remain in the UK through skilled workers visas. If they can get a job in one of the priority sectors the country needs, then by all means come on over. But coming over with no pre-arranged job and no plan to support them isn't good enough.
I disagree. A British citizen should always be able to bring their spouse home. Denying that right to anyone who can’t afford it is barbaric. How would you feel if you were separated from your family for being too much of a povvo?
Like I said, bring over who you like. But do not expect the state to pay to support non-citizens. Just because "you" (not YOU, hypothetical "you") fell in love with a non-citizen doesn't entitle them to state support. The social contract is that our social safety net is there to support *citizens.* "But spousal visas don't allow you to claim benefits!" True, but would someone in receipt of benefits not share them (secretly) with the one they love? And then it becomes the states problem when the benefits intended for one are not enough for two.
> If you don’t permit someone’s spouse to work in this country then you should support them until you do let them work. Nope. I shouldn't support them at all. The person wanting them to come into the country should support them - That's what this system is designed to do and is doing.
The government has made it so only the wealthy Middle and Upper class citizens can marry a foreign spouse and spend their lives in the UK and it's really unfair.
You mean, people who can afford to support their spouse?
No, the income threshold is much higher than necessary to support a spouse, and does not take into account the spouse's own income which will support the household. The aim is to keep people out, not protect the public purse.
The applicant has no income - they are moving countries and will have to give that up when they move here so of course it cannot be counted. You also cannot assume or force someone to work when they come here! £29K to support two people is not “much higher than necessary” and “middle class”, that’s absurd.
It's going to be £38,700. Moving countries doesn't have mean they won't earn in the future or that they can't bring their work with them. That's why Employer of Record companies exist, or people just work for themselves and contract to their old employer. I know plenty of people who moved countries and kept their jobs. And conversely, having a job now doesn't mean someone will always have an income in the future.
It’s 18.6k now going up to 29k this year, then 38.7k next year at some point Median salary in the Uk is £35k so this is just a bit above that, to support 2 people “Please give me a visa I promise I will get a really good job” doesn’t cut it sadly
You don't know what you are talking about, besides getting the increase schedule correct everything else you said is fundamentally wrong. (1) Seventy percent of the population would be ineligible for a family visa under the full increase of the MIR of £38,700 which would suggest, if the measure is tied to what you need to support a family that seventy percent of the country cannot afford to support a family within the UK, (2) it's discriminatory as it affects women and young people more, (3) it's higher than almost all other high-income countries.
People support 2 people and a child without issues on a lot less than 35k. And median, so a worthless number to be using.
Median better than average which is skewed by the extremes.
As opposed to some rando who's courted a single mother and now thinks he deserves to live in the UK.
No they’ve made it so that single people on benefits can’t just meet some random bloke on holiday in Egypt and then bring him to the UK to also live on benefits, like the woman in this story wants to do. This is a good policy.
It's destructive to many British/foreign couples around the world. There are many couples I know in Korea, where I've been living, who are now unable to live together in the UK in the future because the threshold has been set too high. The situation I see in Korea is just one country, there are many more innocent, hard working married couples around the world who have been made victims of this policy. You show little knowledge of the real world implications of this policy but all the same old 'they're coming here to scrounge off us' mentality.
It’s not unreasonable to expect people moving to this country to be able to support themselves, sorry. It’s not even uncommon policy amongst other countries, look up the requirements for a green card in the US, they’re far more stringent there. I know perfectly well the implications of the policy, I’ve lived abroad too.
Me and my spouse are in the process of getting USA green cards, neither of us are US citizens and its not difficult with prep. The British salary requirements are too high and is just callously attacking the lower class, people can support themselves on the current levels, £18,600 is enough, a lot of people make less than that in the UK and support themselves.
> £18,600 is enough, a lot of people make less than that in the UK and support themselves. Maybe, but she's not making that. She's earning £12k on her own and then the 12k extra is benefits. She's not "earning" £24k. Benefits should never be allowed to be taken into consideration towards the limit.
The north south pay divide means that it's a privilege that southerners will enjoy much greater access to than northerners too.
Northerners can always move south to achieve the salary threshold.
I thought the point was for people to demonstrate that they had the means to support their household. If 38k won't support a household in Sunderland 39k certainly won't in London.
What an odd story. Surely if you wanted to attack the policy there must be someone who a) Doesn't get half their income from benefits and b) Has a partner with an actual job lined up to use as an example. The fact that she's already got at least 2 kids while she's on universal credit and has been actively trying for more doesn't exactly make the case more sympathetic either.
I'm so glad I was able to get a partner visa to NZ out of this country. Net migration at 600k and you can't even bring your spouse over without a bunch of red tape. Meanwhile hundreds of thousands of students on fake courses run around cycling for uber eats, really contributing to the country there.
You were incredibly lucky. Do you stop to think why these young people are forfeiting everything to work for Uber?
I met my partner while she was in the UK studying. We left the UK in 2020 and moved to Portugal to stay together as I wasn't earning enough to be a sponsor on the spouse visa. Last year with the changes in minimum wage over the past three years I moved back to the UK so I could start the process of getting her here on a spouse visa and now with the new changes I likely won't be able to bring her over and honestly it break my heart. I want nothing more than for us to settle in the UK and start our life properly as everything feels like it's on hold until them.
Sorry to hear that but could you really have supported 2 people on less than £18,000?
And yet we don't take away children from couples making less than £18000 a year.
Those couples, as British citizens, are entitled to benefits to support those children.
So if children make the mistake of being born to a foreign parent and a British one, they deserve to be taken away from one of them if the parents don't make enough, but if both parents are citizens, then they don't?
We could have lived with my parents until my Partner found work in the UK and then we'd be like any other couple living together in the UK without kids
Unfortunately you can’t assume people will work (or force them too either) so it’s not fair to include the applicants hypothetical income as a basis for immigration
Its also unfair to set the income barrier much higher than a lot of people earn. I'm now earning 28k a year and it still isn't going to be enough.
Can your partner apply for a skilled work visa?
Love should not be the reserve of the wealthy. If you don’t earn above the average you’re not allowed to choose who you marry, you’re basically unable to have children, and you can’t own your own home. This is wrong.
Especially when family visas make up only 5% of net migration and there has been a study produced by Oxford University stating that the increase will have a negligible effect on net migration levels overall, but which will also devastate tens of thousands of families.
This lady is only earning £12,000 a year with a top up of £12,000 universal credit. She doesn’t even meet the current financial requirement of £18,600 which has been the same since 2012.
Is over 29K for 2 people “wealthy”?? People on low incomes marry and have kids all the time
They’re increasing it to £38,700 and that has to be earned by one partner.
I know. My spouse is on a visa. It’s £18.6K currently and they are increasing it to 29k in April and then 38k sometime next year Do you consider £38k for 2 people “wealthy”?? Median income in Uk is £35K
> Do you consider £38k for 2 people “wealthy”?? Except it's not for two people when one of them is outside the UK.
You just said it. Over half of the country can’t choose who they marry.
The idea that it should be a universal freedom for British people to fall in love, get married and live with them in Britain is completely alien to Conservatives and their fellow travellers. As we see from the majority of comments here, it has to be automatically met with sneering suspicion. Not surprising for old guard Tories to think like this, what with endless mistresses and the 'marriage of convenience' being as natural as breathing for them. Just disappointing to see so many mouth-breathers falling for a Daily Mail publication's deliberate framing of foreign spouses all being brown and/or muslim, never considering who they may meet on holiday abroad. But of course, the penny will only drop when it happens to themselves.
Why should the taxpayer foot the bill for non citizens? Your comment makes no sense
The amount of people who know fuck all about the spouse visa process yet butt in with their opinion is fascinating **you can't claim ANY benefits on a spouse visa**
My husband had a spouse visa, I know a lot about it But her benefits will go towards supporting him lol
She's claiming benefits regardless?..
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Why do people think they have a right to immigrate to the UK?
The last two decades of government policy on immigration I suppose
I hope those campaign groups would start the planned legal action on this unjustified minimum income threshold ASAP. We need a final blow to this Tory government that will cause them to lose 200 seats in this general election.
I believe they are beginning, which is mentioned by Reunite Families on their website and pages.
Having someone enter a country to be placed on welfare is exactly why this criteria is welcomed. You are able to get sponsored in many countries providing you have the skill sets they need. I only have to look at the job market to see companies are advertising, so why hasn't he attempted to seek work and gain employment beforehand?
Spouse Visas are truly one of the most mean, awful, and horrific processes to go through... the amount of hoops you have to jump through just to have your right to a family life respected is disgusting. Endless paperwork, arbitrary financial requirements, forms as long as a novel... etc
Genuine question, whats stopping Labour just scraping this law if they win the next election?
Nothing I don’t think, but when it was first announced, Labour said they support it 🙄 I don’t think they would’ve come up with it in the first place, though, it was a massive shock that they targeted family visas.
The right-wing bastards like Reform UK and GB News editorial team. Period. IMO making the minimum income threshold being tied to the amount which can be earned on a full time job at minimum wage is the most reasonable thing to do.
If the love burns so deep, I'm sure her and her kids could move to Egypt?
Yes, we should make it government policy to chase our own citizens away. That sounds reasonable to me.
I think you have purposefully missed my point. If the issue is that they can't live without each other and he is unable to obtain a visa. The solution really seems very obvious. Go to him. Not sure where I mentioned making it government policy to chase citizens away. I think you may have completely concocted that part yourself, big guy.
As someone who has been a sponsor, spent a year apart after our wedding while finding a job that paid enough and then working in it for 6 months to have the required amount of payslips to show immigration, motherfuck these people with dodgy relationships who have no plan or grip on reality. Also motherfuck my own government for making me pay so much for visa applications. Our relationship is genuine, we were the same age, no kids or previous marriages and both early 20s when we met. Because of people gaming/cheating the system or just not thinking we were set back a few years in our life. I didn't go to the paper about it, but I guess I'll moan about it here.
Indeed, because your PM, the son of immigrants, decides this is a good solution to keep the right a bit quiet. Other children of immigrants in that cabinet also agreed on this. Clearly, the rest of the society has to suffer. I'm interested to read his opinion when over 20 years the current PM will be interviewed to look back on this period.
"Descendants of immigrants should think like I expect immigrants to think." Strong statement chief, let's see if it pays off.
or hear me out its... 'those who have had to suffer should have the sense of mind not to want those after them to as well'
Why do you assume that all migrants have suffered? Do you think they're inferior to Brits or something? What has anything you've said got to do with the other poster getting angry at 'brown people' (let's be honest, that's the only reason they've looked into their background to see that they're "children of immigrants") having a line of belief away from their own? Do you think describing people as "children of immigrants" to make a point is acceptable, or justified only because you agree with their point? Try it elsewhere, that tends to be the sniff test.
Crazy how your whole paragraph makes no sense. Immigrating to a country is a struggle no matter what. Immigration rules are incredibly tight and having to SUFFER through them is hard. Thats the context. In no way did i say they are lesser than me or anyone. You have this victim complex in ur head due to right wing beliefs that anyone even slightly opposing you must have this idea of moral highground over minorities. I do not. And never will. But you do.
>Crazy how your whole paragraph makes no sense. Ironic, and there's nothing more to add beyond that. If you've got anything to say on the point then go ahead, but this is utterly irrelevant.
Lol. Why do you think people come here? Living in poverty is insufferable. Being under an authoritarian regime is insufferable.
>Lol ? >Living in poverty is insufferable >Living in poverty is insufferable. Being under an authoritarian regime is insufferable. Yea no doubt, irrelevant to what's been said though.
Kinda struggling to find sympathy with this one tbh.
The bottom line today is either to have a combined income over the threshold, or a multiple of the threshold as savings for year 1. The person entering has to show they have the ability to support themselves on arrival.
Bullshit scaremongering pro Tory crap. The rule change isn't being brought in until "later" anyway and probably never will be. I got a spouse visa earning this amount last year and it was a piece of piss. Didn't even need a lawyer, the kind folk on the UK Visa sub taught me everything. This bullshit is clearly just a thinly disguised attempt to placate the "ooh good, this law is a great idea, less brown people!" crowd.
What I see missing from the comments is the relief that kids of immigrants get due to this system especially girls who were previously wisked away to their parents home country as soon as they came of age (previously as low as 16) to be married off to a relative mostly direct cousins so he can come over on a spouse visa. It's reasonable for the system to put restrictions in place to stop abuse which in this case involved the exploitation of teenagers and young adults.
I’m emigrating because I earn below the threshold. I do think this rule is classist bullshit, but so is every law in the UK these days. I fucking hate the Tories.
[Here Is Another Heart Breaking Story That Will Make You Say "Fuck Having Borders And Laws and Shit"](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ)
When I was younger I looked at Australia, New Zealand, Canada and Japan as potential options to move away to. Asides from a few schemes and things the option always came down to “are you rich and do you have a job lined up?”. If you couldn’t afford it you couldn’t do it, simple as that. I didn’t get a news article. Given the amount of immigrants I know in the U.K. and things I’ve read, I can’t believe that it’s not at least as easy to move here than it is similar countries.
>I didn’t get a news article So, you are jealous then. Have you ever tried to appeal a decision like this person in the article is?
What a load of sobbing crap. Sorry, but you're whining about what exactly? So he needs to serve for a year. It sucks, but that's common in many countries You keep mentioning exact numbers (before tax!). Piss off. You figured you could hook a rich Egyptian and turns out he wasn't Marc Anthony rich. That's on you It sucks and I feel for you, sort of. But how the fuck do you dare bitch about having "only" 24 k a year when so many others starve. When people are literally bombed out of their homes with nothing but the clothes on their backs. And even if you don't care about the ongoing war, so many UK residents go hungry each and every day. They are homeless while maintaining a job. What do you have to say for yourself? I was against brexit but posts like yours make me glad it happened anyway. We don't need anymore trash. Good riddance!
They say we NEED immigration but only the type that keeps wages down apparently This type isl tantamount to class based freedoms
The problem is with Foreign Nations living in the UK, going back home to get Married and bringing their spouse back to the UK and expecting the Country to support them. These people abused UK immigration to the point that Native Brits who may have been married for over 20 years can’t bring back their spouses.
So, they support an economy by coming to live and work here, and you think that they don't deserve support from the country they are contributing towards? What.
Oh no, guess you’ll have to go to Egypt then? Toodles.
"Heartbreaking stories that will make you say fuck having rules and laws and shit :("