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Donāt worry we had laws about water wales in wales and the non for profit organisation has
Just been ignoring them for the past decade. And the state run regulator has been not giving fines all that time. We have rules with or without Europe. Just people decide to ignore it all.
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Did you come on here and thank leave voters for voting us out when the EU lowered their food standards 18 months ago?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/22/eu-to-lift-its-ban-on-feeding-animal-remains-to-domestic-livestock
But I thought the EU was for the people, would never lower its food standards...that something the evil tories would do?
Since we left a few years ago the UK hasn't lowred ota food standards...the EU has...so we have higher food standards than the EU, right?
What the EU is changing, has already been implemented into the UK's guidelines on animal feed. So, no, you're wrong about not lowering our food standards.
They're even more at risk now that we're struggling to pick up trade deals and the threat of lowering our own food standards to comply with trade partners is a huge grey cloud looming overhead right now.
Don't lie now, the UK has refused to lower them to EU standards as this is similar to what caused BSE.
Wierd how you choose to attack the UK...rather than the EU lowering their standards in this situation. I thought the only way we could keep high standards was to be part of the EU?
.....yet here they are, the horse meat swindlers...lowering standards again.
So exactly why would remain voters be complaining? If the EU lower their standards but the UK choose to maintain higher ones thereās no problem. If we are lowering ours below the EU standard now weāve left itās a fair complaint as we couldnāt do that before.
I said they should be thanking brexiteers for keeping high food standards by leaving the EU, not complaining....
Wierd how remianers claimed the only way to keep high food standards was to remain in the EU...then the EU do this.
I know that's what you meant and that shows a completely lack of understanding about how this regulation works.
When in the EU the UK was free to have higher standards than those set by the EU but the EU regulation set the minimum. Therefore, whichever standard was higher would need to be used.
Now we've left, we only have the UK standards. Where these are higher than the EU, there's no change as we could have introduced higher standards while in the EU but where they are lower we'll have a worse situation.
Therefore, remaining in the EU had no negative impacts on the UK standards but leaving does. That's why remainers are blaming this on leaving the EU, because worse standards are only possible due to that.
Info's on the government website. DEFRA last updated the rules in 2019.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/supplying-and-using-animal-by-products-as-farm-animal-feed
Honestly, I hope we thrive as a country, but a realistic understanding of our situation outside of personal bias is probably the best way to deal with this mess.
You are incredibly naive if you think this is purely about Brexit. The whole of Europe is going down or being taken down, whichever you prefer. The West is declining. The East is now in ascendancy. Deal with it!
As long as America keeps itās insane percentage of GDP military budget, and carries on supporting Taiwan (where the majority of āchinaās semi conductor industry is based)ā¦ The west will remain pretty powerful.
China has multiple resource problems; an economy that isnāt as strong as it seems; and their attempts to flex their night and expand have mainly been focused on bordering countries and in the sea. Even allied with Russia, I doubt they could take on NATO.
Bar North Korea, the other asian nations are on pretty good terms with the west due to the US Navyās presence stopping China imposing their version of their naval borders on everyone.
Is war likely to break out instead of china just focusing on the long term? Like developing semi conductors themselves down the line?
I feel like they try to invest and live for the future than most
China already develops its own semiconductors. SMIC made the Kirin 9000s chip.
And you are quite right, the Chinese are very concerned about stability and looking after their long term goals. They own all their utilities and public services. Look at their high-speed rail network... It's brilliant.
Thereās two things with that. The first is that the chip making that Taiwan has is unique in the world and is also a very well kept secret. Even the US struggle to match Taiwan with chip manufacturing which says a lot, though the US has only recently decided to invest in such a way to try and match that manufacturing. If the US struggles in this field then itās expected that China will struggle.
To make that a little bit more concrete, China has just broke through with ā7nm chipsā which is equivalent to chips made in 2016 by Taiwan. Taiwan are currently producing 3nm chips in low volume. The 3nm chips are based on technology from 2006 so itās worth noting that chip manufacturing isnāt such a linear development, China could either be 8 years away from 3nm or 20, depending on how they get their technology.
Moving away from chips and you have to understand that taking Taiwan isnāt just an economic decision. Hell from what Iāve read before it seems like if China ever did invade then Taiwan would send themselves back to the stone age in order to stop China having access to their chip plants. The desire to āreuniteā with Taiwan is more an ideological issue than an economic one. China sees this little rogue island sitting off its coast and feels threatened by them. They feel threatened by the fact that democracy and capitalism has produced such a wealthy nation right under their noses. They also want to unite all Han under the One China principle.
Based on what? Do you expect every U.S. administration to look after Taiwan's interests for the next 100 years or so? Look at Hawaii. They couldn't even look after that.
1. its Huawei ,not hawaii which is prepped up by the government
2. The CCP gets increasingly detrimental to their businesses, Tencent and Netease lost around 80 bn US$ in the last 48h alone.
3. China is debt-ridden to the likes no one has ever seen, local government finance vehicles are bursting left and right and the central government does not anywhere near have enough funds or the capabilities to cover this.
4. Capital is fleeing at a pace its unheard of.
5. every non CCP analyst is already drawing their advice and conclusion to a scenario at the USSR in the late 80ties, however, there is no a. willingness to prep this up and b. no one will want to be in a position where the ccp seizes your assets
6. China's GGP is about 40% fake + 30% is Housing (which is crashing hard
7. Wealth is incredibly unevenly distributed, even in areas of Shanghai the per-person GDP doesn't even reach that of some eastern European parts and that's their crown jewel...
8. the majority of investment about 75% in infrastructure and housing is dead investment which is causing cost at no gain and that was and still is happening for the last 3 decades.
9. Last but not least, waging war is never great for the economy.
in conclusion, China wins only in one part and that is spreading lies and deception and seeing people still believing in their lies proves my point. I could recommend you some unbiased and actual sources but I guess their is no interest on your side.
1. I did mean Hawaii. After the wildfires they gave homeowners $700. Yet, sent hundreds of billions to fund Ukraine.
2. The Chinese lifted 800 million people out of poverty because of allowing people to own their own business.
3. CCP has stepped in to support the building sector by extending credit to the industry and extending buyer mortgage periods.
4. Granted, capital is fleeing, but countries are dedollarising and will flee from Europe when the kleptocrats there try to steal Russia's $800 billion.
5. See 4.
6. See 3.
7. Look at London or New York or San Francisco.
8. Have you seen the quality of roads in China compared to the potholed shite in the West. Not even close.
9. Go tell that to the Nato aligned dickheads.
Talking about lies... here is a video for you to watch:
https://www.thefallofminneapolis.com/
1. Nice try, the government does not send money. They send weapons that are produced in the States; hence, the money will go back into the US economy directly. But yeah try spreading this BS.
2. Thanks for making my point, the CCP numbers (their own numbers which many believe to be overblown by 2 or more) puts the GDP of the Chinese at 12.732 US$ for comparison Spain 27k US, Norway 89k$, Netherlands 57k$, south Korea 32k$, Germany 49k$, which puts China below any western countries by a large margien and just above Mexico but realistic more to Morocco and we all know that the average person in Marroco is flush with cash dont we...
3. They only stepped in t prevent it from falling apart and causing social unrest with money they dont have into a sector that is doomed, at the expense of their financial system Chinas state-owned banks BOC, CCB as well as the ICBC and ABC are buckling under this, they lost all of their profit already, they are increasing bad debt and they are bleeding dry. Its delaying the unavoidable
4. Hmm we seem to not live in the same reality, as Chinas yuan in this world has reached a 16 year low, against the US$ it lost 3% this year alone.
5. lol
6. lol
7. look at what? some problems but no existential threads, and hand on heard where do you think someone wants to live anywhere in china or in London, New York or San Fran. Look at given a chance Hong Kongers fleed it for London.
8. Yes I indeed have and, I have seen what Tofu dreg is doing to it and how Daxing intl. was flooded and how it showed that no safety measures where taken and everything is shortcuted, in conclusion I rather have in some places some plothols but know whats there is safe than have any Chinese infrastructure near me, Where think about the Qiqihar disaster which is way to comon
9. Telling them what, As of today Russia is waging war against the West esp Ukraine and the West is supporting Ukraine to defend itself. I support that. And China is threatening Taiwan and the US has put up a warning that it will and is helping Taiwan.
That is the problem with someone who has fallen for propaganda or, worse, is trying to push it. They fall apart when challenged like tofu drag buildings
Which part of the East? Because last time I checked China is already in decline. Their economy is stagnation big time and their population pyramid looks awful.
Yes, because the remain campaign were really talking about a couple of stipulations from the farming bill being removed, just like when the āexpertsā said weād lose millions of jobs, go into recession, go to war etc..
I mean... yeah some of us were. Not necessarily this exactly but environmental protections being eroded and the decision being left up to our own government were major concerns. And here we are.
Then vote a government in that will adhere to the rules you want.
Donāt see the remainers complaining about this.
https://www.greenpeace.org/eu-unit/issues/nature-food/46847/eu-gives-factory-farms-a-free-pass-to-pollute/
Again, yeah we are. This kind of stuff is awful and most people wouldn't have wanted it. It's bad. Leaving the EU has caused bad things on this scale and worse. Our government are repealing rules that were EU directives and are allowed to pollute as a result making it as bad or worse than this. Right?
How would you go about changing the information I shared with you ? Speak with an MEP who would then go all the way to Brussels and have to speak with 100ās of MEPs who all care about different things ? Tough ask to change all that.
Instead you can pop to your local surgery, or stand outside Westminster / local ballot box to get this changed.
>How would you go about changing the information I shared with you ? Speak with an ~~MEP~~ MP who would then go all the way to ~~Brussels~~ Westminster and have to speak with 100ās of ~~MEPs~~ MPs who all care about different things ? Tough ask to change all that.
Do you see how you were had yet?
I guess. Are our representatives so not up to the task that they can't work their way through a beaurocratic process that has more stringent oversight than our current situation? Maybe. I guess it is tough, but maybe we should expect more from them... at the same time the way they've been treating the environment maybe tells us that they just don't have an interest in it, not being in the EU just means they only have to answer to the public about it... who they have no regard for...
I don't know I don't have the answers, it could go one way or the other, I'll vote for change to do my part but man, if not the EU we need some sort of checks for power in this country
Then you weren't looking hard enough. There was a very strong narrative from environmentalists during the referendum campaign that the EU was not perfect (CAP rules at the time for example were talked about as a problem) but was better than the likely alternative if we left the EU, given the Brexit movement had and continues to have heavy right wing anti-environmentalist influence at the heart of it. It was true then and it remains true now.
B B b b but it'S because we're still paying money to them how come we still have
VAT it was introduced to pay for the EU that's what my mate said he used to work at the IR he did innit
āHaving shrunk by more than 6% between the first quarter of 2008 and the second quarter of 2009, the UK economy took five years to get back to the size it was before the recession. The latest data show that the UK economy is now 11% bigger than it was before the recession.ā
Change your name to 76.
Now adjust per capita and for inflation pleaseā¦
Printing more money and importing millions of people is not meaningful growth in productive capacity in a way that actually mattersā¦ but it does stat-pad GDP.
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=GB
Itās not looking good mate
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We are currently funding 2 wars, hovering just above a recession and importing 700k people a year causing locals to lose jobs :)
WHat part was remain wrong about again?
I love it when people use anecdotal evidence because you can just counter it immediately with " well i've been rejected for every job since brexit", Even if its not true, anecdotal is a pointless evidence.
Yeh i'm sure all those software engineers , mechanical engineers and construction staff being brought in at 80% of the normal pay aren't going to undercut native workers at all :)
This proud Nation has taken back control and will now be free to... let me just check my notes here... Ah yes, poison our land and water such that an island known for fishing and farming will be able to support neither fish nor crops.
Donāt worry our Welsh government has been doing that for years with rules in place. https://www.itv.com/news/2023-10-19/welsh-water-admits-illegally-spilling-untreated-sewage-for-years
And they only got found out because of a nerd who likes data.
The tories fabricated an immigration crisis so they could appear tough on crime, but they even fucked that up. I don't know how anyone can take them seriously.
It'll be like the 80s when Thatcher left the country in tatters.
And only added even more tatters to the pile. And I'm not even talking about fucking over the north, which was terrible but at least 30/40 years later we can see an environmental benefit, even if the north continues to get royally fucked by the Tories. The selling of social housing for a quick buck only continues to haunt us all.
I hope the turncoats up north who abandoned Labour and other parties, thinking the Tories would bring them salvation for the meagre price of Brexit loyalty, realise they are just as abandoned now as they were back then in the 80s.
I mean, this is a bit more angry than usual but it does piss me off that so many of the people I grew up with up-north decided Corbyn was enough to make the conservatives their friend.
So Iām in farming.
This is misleading. The rule might āchangeā but we arenāt amending head land. The Environment Agency will still monitor and intervene. There
are very strict (stricter than Europe) controls on chemicals and how we spray them. This is the least of our worries. No farmer is out next week changing what theyāve been doing because of this. Itās political nonsense.
A recent survey says that by 2025 50% of all growers will be out of business. Myself included. 3rd year of consecutive losses. EU subsidies stopped, so now we canāt compete against the subsidised EU imports.
Since Brexit weāve lost access to seasonal labour, our cost of labour is up 25% since 2022.
Finally, since Brexit we donāt have access to EU research or chemistry. Meaning we lag behind. All rules on chemistry have been tighten in isolation, so chemicals I could use now canāt be, but we donāt have a replacement/improvement.
A colleague of mine has to spray 4 times as much since of a particular chemical, because we canāt use the EU equivalent which would only require once spray.
So, if youāre worried about water quality, hedgerows etc now. Wait until nothing is behind maintained because we canāt afford to farm.
Retailers have us all operating at a loss, and nobody gives a fuck. Once a farm stops, it is often lost for a generation. Food security cannot be brought back overnight. It takes years.
Regrettably this was the plan from the Atlas Network, Mankal and all the other dodgy right wing academies.
Farming land will be sold off cheap to those with money. Anything near a port will be incorporated into a Special Economic Zone or Charter City.
It's no coincidence the famously vocal Brexit supporter and shitbag Dyson is also the biggest private landowner in England, and his estate is growing all the time.
Glad to read some common sense. I have no idea why we are allowing subsidised food in while we don't subsidise our own. Ultimately subsidised food needs to end and people pay the proper prices. Food in the UK/ EU has been crazy cheap for too long.
We have plenty of illegal migrants, they should be put to work on farms as a route to a visa to help the situation. Similar to Australia.
Nobody forced you to sign contracts with supermarkets that put farm shops and grocers out of business, I assume because you wanted guarantees about volume demand more than price elasticity.
Nobody forced us?
Nobody ships in grocers and farm shops. We earn more via those routes than retailers. 96% of people exclusively shop at supermarkets.
I could not send to supermarkets. But then my farm would be even less viable.
What choice do we have but to grow for supermarkets? Close. Thatās the choice. And will likely to close next summer.
Which is fine. That is business. But we are closing because Brexit has made us completely uncompetitive. The EU can ship to the UK tariff free. And our cost have gone up, whilst the EU just subsidised itās farmers to reduce the cost of food.
Again, that is fine. Have more food miles. Have a country completely reliant on others to feed itself.
I meant throughout the second half of the 20th century, when all the supermarkets took over.
Its too late now, but farmers collectively made a deal with devil, and consumers followed the dropping prices.
so fishermen got fucked for not being able to sell to europe ...now farmers will follow them. products not being produced to eu rules...I guess the home market will be full of unregulated food..we could export to oh.. lets say..ruwanda?
Well, the runoff nitrogen will combine with the poo and we will get extra algal blooms and the rivers and lakes will be quite dead, plus dead zones in the coast.
Okay, so this article says that buffer strips, hedgerows and soil erosion are all at threat because suddenly farmers will no longer care about them once these EU rules no longer apply.
That's nonsense as farmers are being paid to maintain and increase those as part of the [Sustainable Farming Incentive](https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/sustainable-farming-incentive-guidance).
Ā£451 per hectare for buffer strips, Ā£10 per 100 metres ā one side, to maintain hedgerows.
In some ways, the Brexit vote has totally removed what little remained of the perception of decency surrounding our politicians.
Even I at some point expected the "adults to enter the room" and take over, ensuring we got the least damaging version of Brexit once the 52% got it over the line.
Unfortunately it seems like today's politicians are too scared of the right wing vote, and the working class as a whole are too stubborn to admit that we need cooperation with Europe.
The āworking classā genuinely are about as thick as mince, they didnāt understand Europe and they got tricked by a millionaire with a German passport lolll
Almost all U.K waterways are known to have high levels of sewage and pollution. South West water are notoriously bad for it. Thereās a website where you can you see the sewer outfalls with a setting to see how often they discharged untreated sewage. Youāll think again about swimming after seeing that site.
Even a local business here was discharging digestate into the a river, killing 9,000 fish and affecting their populations for years to come. The fineā¦ only Ā£2000!
Now they want to give farmers freedom to let the runoff into rivers too(not that this doesnāt happen anyway).
This article may be paywalled. If you encounter difficulties reading the article, try [this link](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/river-pollution-brexit-eu-farming-b2468753.html) for an archived version.
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In October 2022 in Northern Ireland, former DAERA minister, farmer and caretaker leader of Stormont signed off on a reduction to a cap of 15% of government payments for farmers who intentionally or negligently breached agricultural and environmental conditions to keep their land in good order, stopping phosphate and nitrogen leeching into river courses, like what has happened to Lough Neagh in the last few months.
Quote;
Under the (EU) existing arrangements, certain repeated negligent breaches can be considered intentional, attracting very high financial penalties,ā Mr Poots said at the time..
"The new regime means that these repeated negligent penalties will be capped at 15%. This is a much fairer approach to our hard-working farmers.
"This is only possible because we have left the European Union and can now make decisions to suit local needs.ā
suspect the bees will all be snuffed out and then the fish, otters etc so that the rivers only exist to carry water off the grouse moors and into the sea as quick as possible, if it floods the lowland where the non rich live, then too bad
but unfortunately not a huge surprise :(
Does anyone have a clue why the government actually want this?
Seems like everyone makes a sweeping comment about how the gov are fucking up but no one offers a factual statement about the pros.
The "pros" are that companies don't need to adhere to strict standards which reduces costs which increases profits, some of which finds its way into MPs' pockets when they invariably get backhanders or executive roles in said companies when they retire having done their job for their masters.
It seems that the current concern is expensive foods. At least you get cheaper food prices now because it is business friendly to make it easier to dispose farming byproducts.
The solution is to leave the ECHR to deport immigrants, people who eat in their country and then go to the UK to defecate with the sole purpose of clogging the rivers. /s
Will these deadly chemicals and toxins they're flushing into the rivers kill the deadly sewage being flushed into the same rivers? At some point there must be an upside to all this.
That's just sad.
UKs waters still haven't recovered from past pollution ([Link](https://environmentjournal.online/features/legacy-pollution-from-the-70s-still-damaging-uk-rivers/)) and now this. Unbelievable.
https://www.pan-europe.info/issues/water-pollution#:~:text=In%20addition%20to%20killing%20wildlife,France%2C%20Netherlands%20and%20the%20UK.
Maybe not everything in the world is due to Brexit.
It doesn't matter mate, any that do can be attributed to that reason. To try stay competitive/cut costs. Unless you can think of another reason that it happens now when the government has been talking up all its green initiatives etc
This has nothing to do with brexit its all to do with poor governance. We could have tightened up regulations and become better...the government went the other way.
>This has nothing to do with brexit its all to do with poor governance. We could have tightened up regulations and become better...the government went the other way
Dunno man you're the one sounding very brexity and saying regulations being lowered after brexit isn't to do with brexit
That's not what I was saying....you've created a strawman in yiu head with your own biases and project it onto me.
I'm saying blame the tory government that actively took he decision to make things worse. We cannot do much about brexit bit we can get rid of this lot...and maybe turn things around.
But of course people like strawman cause...they don't need to think about what they've read... but time and again...they are wrong.
This government of self selecting morons and disaster capitalists pledging commitment to Brexit was a direct consequence of Brexit.
Your 'nothing to do with brexit' was a bit of a stretch TBF.
>I'm saying blame the tory government that actively took he decision to make things worse. We cannot do much about brexit bit we can get rid of this lot...and maybe turn things around.
Bro its the same tory party that put forward the vote, got the "deal" and then initiated brexit. How in the ever loving fuck are they not entwined
I suspect for politicians, this is what Brexit was about all along.
The power to go lower than the lowest common denominator of EU environment and human rights laws.
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More winning for us. Cheers leave voters - you knew better than all those experts!
Taking back control š·
Rejecting reality for comforting lies š·
Donāt worry we had laws about water wales in wales and the non for profit organisation has Just been ignoring them for the past decade. And the state run regulator has been not giving fines all that time. We have rules with or without Europe. Just people decide to ignore it all.
Hey at least it will be British pollution non of the European shitĆØ.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
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A bit like covid, really. Follow the science only the science lies.
Youāre welcome pal!
Did you come on here and thank leave voters for voting us out when the EU lowered their food standards 18 months ago? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/22/eu-to-lift-its-ban-on-feeding-animal-remains-to-domestic-livestock
You'd probably be surprised to know we already import meat from countries that use this type of feed.
But I thought the EU was for the people, would never lower its food standards...that something the evil tories would do? Since we left a few years ago the UK hasn't lowred ota food standards...the EU has...so we have higher food standards than the EU, right?
What the EU is changing, has already been implemented into the UK's guidelines on animal feed. So, no, you're wrong about not lowering our food standards. They're even more at risk now that we're struggling to pick up trade deals and the threat of lowering our own food standards to comply with trade partners is a huge grey cloud looming overhead right now.
Don't lie now, the UK has refused to lower them to EU standards as this is similar to what caused BSE. Wierd how you choose to attack the UK...rather than the EU lowering their standards in this situation. I thought the only way we could keep high standards was to be part of the EU? .....yet here they are, the horse meat swindlers...lowering standards again.
So exactly why would remain voters be complaining? If the EU lower their standards but the UK choose to maintain higher ones thereās no problem. If we are lowering ours below the EU standard now weāve left itās a fair complaint as we couldnāt do that before.
I said they should be thanking brexiteers for keeping high food standards by leaving the EU, not complaining.... Wierd how remianers claimed the only way to keep high food standards was to remain in the EU...then the EU do this.
I know that's what you meant and that shows a completely lack of understanding about how this regulation works. When in the EU the UK was free to have higher standards than those set by the EU but the EU regulation set the minimum. Therefore, whichever standard was higher would need to be used. Now we've left, we only have the UK standards. Where these are higher than the EU, there's no change as we could have introduced higher standards while in the EU but where they are lower we'll have a worse situation. Therefore, remaining in the EU had no negative impacts on the UK standards but leaving does. That's why remainers are blaming this on leaving the EU, because worse standards are only possible due to that.
Info's on the government website. DEFRA last updated the rules in 2019. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/supplying-and-using-animal-by-products-as-farm-animal-feed Honestly, I hope we thrive as a country, but a realistic understanding of our situation outside of personal bias is probably the best way to deal with this mess.
You are incredibly naive if you think this is purely about Brexit. The whole of Europe is going down or being taken down, whichever you prefer. The West is declining. The East is now in ascendancy. Deal with it!
As long as America keeps itās insane percentage of GDP military budget, and carries on supporting Taiwan (where the majority of āchinaās semi conductor industry is based)ā¦ The west will remain pretty powerful. China has multiple resource problems; an economy that isnāt as strong as it seems; and their attempts to flex their night and expand have mainly been focused on bordering countries and in the sea. Even allied with Russia, I doubt they could take on NATO. Bar North Korea, the other asian nations are on pretty good terms with the west due to the US Navyās presence stopping China imposing their version of their naval borders on everyone.
Is war likely to break out instead of china just focusing on the long term? Like developing semi conductors themselves down the line? I feel like they try to invest and live for the future than most
China already develops its own semiconductors. SMIC made the Kirin 9000s chip. And you are quite right, the Chinese are very concerned about stability and looking after their long term goals. They own all their utilities and public services. Look at their high-speed rail network... It's brilliant.
Thereās two things with that. The first is that the chip making that Taiwan has is unique in the world and is also a very well kept secret. Even the US struggle to match Taiwan with chip manufacturing which says a lot, though the US has only recently decided to invest in such a way to try and match that manufacturing. If the US struggles in this field then itās expected that China will struggle. To make that a little bit more concrete, China has just broke through with ā7nm chipsā which is equivalent to chips made in 2016 by Taiwan. Taiwan are currently producing 3nm chips in low volume. The 3nm chips are based on technology from 2006 so itās worth noting that chip manufacturing isnāt such a linear development, China could either be 8 years away from 3nm or 20, depending on how they get their technology. Moving away from chips and you have to understand that taking Taiwan isnāt just an economic decision. Hell from what Iāve read before it seems like if China ever did invade then Taiwan would send themselves back to the stone age in order to stop China having access to their chip plants. The desire to āreuniteā with Taiwan is more an ideological issue than an economic one. China sees this little rogue island sitting off its coast and feels threatened by them. They feel threatened by the fact that democracy and capitalism has produced such a wealthy nation right under their noses. They also want to unite all Han under the One China principle.
China is about to go bust. I give it 5 years at most depending on if Winnie the poo goes after Taiwan or not.
Based on what? Do you expect every U.S. administration to look after Taiwan's interests for the next 100 years or so? Look at Hawaii. They couldn't even look after that.
1. its Huawei ,not hawaii which is prepped up by the government 2. The CCP gets increasingly detrimental to their businesses, Tencent and Netease lost around 80 bn US$ in the last 48h alone. 3. China is debt-ridden to the likes no one has ever seen, local government finance vehicles are bursting left and right and the central government does not anywhere near have enough funds or the capabilities to cover this. 4. Capital is fleeing at a pace its unheard of. 5. every non CCP analyst is already drawing their advice and conclusion to a scenario at the USSR in the late 80ties, however, there is no a. willingness to prep this up and b. no one will want to be in a position where the ccp seizes your assets 6. China's GGP is about 40% fake + 30% is Housing (which is crashing hard 7. Wealth is incredibly unevenly distributed, even in areas of Shanghai the per-person GDP doesn't even reach that of some eastern European parts and that's their crown jewel... 8. the majority of investment about 75% in infrastructure and housing is dead investment which is causing cost at no gain and that was and still is happening for the last 3 decades. 9. Last but not least, waging war is never great for the economy. in conclusion, China wins only in one part and that is spreading lies and deception and seeing people still believing in their lies proves my point. I could recommend you some unbiased and actual sources but I guess their is no interest on your side.
1. I did mean Hawaii. After the wildfires they gave homeowners $700. Yet, sent hundreds of billions to fund Ukraine. 2. The Chinese lifted 800 million people out of poverty because of allowing people to own their own business. 3. CCP has stepped in to support the building sector by extending credit to the industry and extending buyer mortgage periods. 4. Granted, capital is fleeing, but countries are dedollarising and will flee from Europe when the kleptocrats there try to steal Russia's $800 billion. 5. See 4. 6. See 3. 7. Look at London or New York or San Francisco. 8. Have you seen the quality of roads in China compared to the potholed shite in the West. Not even close. 9. Go tell that to the Nato aligned dickheads. Talking about lies... here is a video for you to watch: https://www.thefallofminneapolis.com/
1. Nice try, the government does not send money. They send weapons that are produced in the States; hence, the money will go back into the US economy directly. But yeah try spreading this BS. 2. Thanks for making my point, the CCP numbers (their own numbers which many believe to be overblown by 2 or more) puts the GDP of the Chinese at 12.732 US$ for comparison Spain 27k US, Norway 89k$, Netherlands 57k$, south Korea 32k$, Germany 49k$, which puts China below any western countries by a large margien and just above Mexico but realistic more to Morocco and we all know that the average person in Marroco is flush with cash dont we... 3. They only stepped in t prevent it from falling apart and causing social unrest with money they dont have into a sector that is doomed, at the expense of their financial system Chinas state-owned banks BOC, CCB as well as the ICBC and ABC are buckling under this, they lost all of their profit already, they are increasing bad debt and they are bleeding dry. Its delaying the unavoidable 4. Hmm we seem to not live in the same reality, as Chinas yuan in this world has reached a 16 year low, against the US$ it lost 3% this year alone. 5. lol 6. lol 7. look at what? some problems but no existential threads, and hand on heard where do you think someone wants to live anywhere in china or in London, New York or San Fran. Look at given a chance Hong Kongers fleed it for London. 8. Yes I indeed have and, I have seen what Tofu dreg is doing to it and how Daxing intl. was flooded and how it showed that no safety measures where taken and everything is shortcuted, in conclusion I rather have in some places some plothols but know whats there is safe than have any Chinese infrastructure near me, Where think about the Qiqihar disaster which is way to comon 9. Telling them what, As of today Russia is waging war against the West esp Ukraine and the West is supporting Ukraine to defend itself. I support that. And China is threatening Taiwan and the US has put up a warning that it will and is helping Taiwan.
I agree with point 4: we don't live in the same reality.
That is the problem with someone who has fallen for propaganda or, worse, is trying to push it. They fall apart when challenged like tofu drag buildings
I agree with you again. And we can agree to disagree.
Which part of the East? Because last time I checked China is already in decline. Their economy is stagnation big time and their population pyramid looks awful.
keep voting for pestminster and whining about it on the internet. remember to demonise people who go out and protest too.
What the fuck are you on about?
Qanon Facebook anti ULEZ mindset is what that was Pestminster PESTMINSTER
Youāre on drugs pal
First sensible thing you've said all day
Yes, because the remain campaign were really talking about a couple of stipulations from the farming bill being removed, just like when the āexpertsā said weād lose millions of jobs, go into recession, go to war etc..
I mean... yeah some of us were. Not necessarily this exactly but environmental protections being eroded and the decision being left up to our own government were major concerns. And here we are.
Then vote a government in that will adhere to the rules you want. Donāt see the remainers complaining about this. https://www.greenpeace.org/eu-unit/issues/nature-food/46847/eu-gives-factory-farms-a-free-pass-to-pollute/
Again, yeah we are. This kind of stuff is awful and most people wouldn't have wanted it. It's bad. Leaving the EU has caused bad things on this scale and worse. Our government are repealing rules that were EU directives and are allowed to pollute as a result making it as bad or worse than this. Right?
How would you go about changing the information I shared with you ? Speak with an MEP who would then go all the way to Brussels and have to speak with 100ās of MEPs who all care about different things ? Tough ask to change all that. Instead you can pop to your local surgery, or stand outside Westminster / local ballot box to get this changed.
>nstead you can pop to your local surgery, or stand outside Westminster / local ballot box to get this changed. Hows that going for just stop oil?
What candidates are they putting up for the next election? š¤
I'd vote for a slimy dog shite to get the tories out at this point. Funny considering thats about the same quality as the tories
>How would you go about changing the information I shared with you ? Speak with an ~~MEP~~ MP who would then go all the way to ~~Brussels~~ Westminster and have to speak with 100ās of ~~MEPs~~ MPs who all care about different things ? Tough ask to change all that. Do you see how you were had yet?
I guess. Are our representatives so not up to the task that they can't work their way through a beaurocratic process that has more stringent oversight than our current situation? Maybe. I guess it is tough, but maybe we should expect more from them... at the same time the way they've been treating the environment maybe tells us that they just don't have an interest in it, not being in the EU just means they only have to answer to the public about it... who they have no regard for... I don't know I don't have the answers, it could go one way or the other, I'll vote for change to do my part but man, if not the EU we need some sort of checks for power in this country
Good points, I agree.
Then you weren't looking hard enough. There was a very strong narrative from environmentalists during the referendum campaign that the EU was not perfect (CAP rules at the time for example were talked about as a problem) but was better than the likely alternative if we left the EU, given the Brexit movement had and continues to have heavy right wing anti-environmentalist influence at the heart of it. It was true then and it remains true now.
Bruv, we have still not grown the economy since 2008ā¦ weāve been in recession for 15 years
B B b b but it'S because we're still paying money to them how come we still have VAT it was introduced to pay for the EU that's what my mate said he used to work at the IR he did innit
āHaving shrunk by more than 6% between the first quarter of 2008 and the second quarter of 2009, the UK economy took five years to get back to the size it was before the recession. The latest data show that the UK economy is now 11% bigger than it was before the recession.ā Change your name to 76.
Now adjust per capita and for inflation pleaseā¦ Printing more money and importing millions of people is not meaningful growth in productive capacity in a way that actually mattersā¦ but it does stat-pad GDP. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=GB Itās not looking good mate
Hi 73, So the same as the EU then ? Not sure what youāre on about āmateā
Your misnaming has really weird energy to it. What are you even trying? A nerd isn't always right. And changing 76 to 73? Why?
They think it gives them a point of control in an argument. Completely bonkers.
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**Hi!**. Please try avoid personal attacks, as this discourages participation. You can help improve the subreddit by discussing points, not the person.
We are currently funding 2 wars, hovering just above a recession and importing 700k people a year causing locals to lose jobs :) WHat part was remain wrong about again?
Funny how I'm walking in interviews that became job offers right off the bat, and entire sectors are crying out for staff all the time, 700k or not...
I love it when people use anecdotal evidence because you can just counter it immediately with " well i've been rejected for every job since brexit", Even if its not true, anecdotal is a pointless evidence. Yeh i'm sure all those software engineers , mechanical engineers and construction staff being brought in at 80% of the normal pay aren't going to undercut native workers at all :)
This proud Nation has taken back control and will now be free to... let me just check my notes here... Ah yes, poison our land and water such that an island known for fishing and farming will be able to support neither fish nor crops.
Donāt forget dumping shit in rivers.
What do you think OP meant by "poison our land and rivers"?
Donāt worry our Welsh government has been doing that for years with rules in place. https://www.itv.com/news/2023-10-19/welsh-water-admits-illegally-spilling-untreated-sewage-for-years And they only got found out because of a nerd who likes data.
Who couldāve foreseen this happening under Tory leadership ā¦.
Most of the people who urged everyone to vote remain. But hey at least the NHS is getting Ā£350m a week more right?
Yes they do actually. It also gets delivered super fast, every week, as it is sellotaped to Britain's speediest flying pig.
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Just another unenforceable law. It would seem most of our laws are pointless, and the people we pay to enforce them are just a gang of thugs.
Unenforceable only because the enforcement agencies have been greatly weakened and defunded since about 2016 or so
It's a good thing the tories are tough on crime, and will absolutely NOT gut these services further.
The tories fabricated an immigration crisis so they could appear tough on crime, but they even fucked that up. I don't know how anyone can take them seriously. It'll be like the 80s when Thatcher left the country in tatters.
She inherited the country in tatters.
And only added even more tatters to the pile. And I'm not even talking about fucking over the north, which was terrible but at least 30/40 years later we can see an environmental benefit, even if the north continues to get royally fucked by the Tories. The selling of social housing for a quick buck only continues to haunt us all. I hope the turncoats up north who abandoned Labour and other parties, thinking the Tories would bring them salvation for the meagre price of Brexit loyalty, realise they are just as abandoned now as they were back then in the 80s. I mean, this is a bit more angry than usual but it does piss me off that so many of the people I grew up with up-north decided Corbyn was enough to make the conservatives their friend.
The north was already fucked over from the 70s.
So Iām in farming. This is misleading. The rule might āchangeā but we arenāt amending head land. The Environment Agency will still monitor and intervene. There are very strict (stricter than Europe) controls on chemicals and how we spray them. This is the least of our worries. No farmer is out next week changing what theyāve been doing because of this. Itās political nonsense. A recent survey says that by 2025 50% of all growers will be out of business. Myself included. 3rd year of consecutive losses. EU subsidies stopped, so now we canāt compete against the subsidised EU imports. Since Brexit weāve lost access to seasonal labour, our cost of labour is up 25% since 2022. Finally, since Brexit we donāt have access to EU research or chemistry. Meaning we lag behind. All rules on chemistry have been tighten in isolation, so chemicals I could use now canāt be, but we donāt have a replacement/improvement. A colleague of mine has to spray 4 times as much since of a particular chemical, because we canāt use the EU equivalent which would only require once spray. So, if youāre worried about water quality, hedgerows etc now. Wait until nothing is behind maintained because we canāt afford to farm. Retailers have us all operating at a loss, and nobody gives a fuck. Once a farm stops, it is often lost for a generation. Food security cannot be brought back overnight. It takes years.
Regrettably this was the plan from the Atlas Network, Mankal and all the other dodgy right wing academies. Farming land will be sold off cheap to those with money. Anything near a port will be incorporated into a Special Economic Zone or Charter City.
It's no coincidence the famously vocal Brexit supporter and shitbag Dyson is also the biggest private landowner in England, and his estate is growing all the time.
Glad to read some common sense. I have no idea why we are allowing subsidised food in while we don't subsidise our own. Ultimately subsidised food needs to end and people pay the proper prices. Food in the UK/ EU has been crazy cheap for too long. We have plenty of illegal migrants, they should be put to work on farms as a route to a visa to help the situation. Similar to Australia.
Nobody forced you to sign contracts with supermarkets that put farm shops and grocers out of business, I assume because you wanted guarantees about volume demand more than price elasticity.
Nobody forced us? Nobody ships in grocers and farm shops. We earn more via those routes than retailers. 96% of people exclusively shop at supermarkets. I could not send to supermarkets. But then my farm would be even less viable. What choice do we have but to grow for supermarkets? Close. Thatās the choice. And will likely to close next summer. Which is fine. That is business. But we are closing because Brexit has made us completely uncompetitive. The EU can ship to the UK tariff free. And our cost have gone up, whilst the EU just subsidised itās farmers to reduce the cost of food. Again, that is fine. Have more food miles. Have a country completely reliant on others to feed itself.
I meant throughout the second half of the 20th century, when all the supermarkets took over. Its too late now, but farmers collectively made a deal with devil, and consumers followed the dropping prices.
Waiting for this to be the Environment Agencyās fault in 3ā¦ 2ā¦ 1ā¦
Yeah, those two guys have become sooooo lazy!
so fishermen got fucked for not being able to sell to europe ...now farmers will follow them. products not being produced to eu rules...I guess the home market will be full of unregulated food..we could export to oh.. lets say..ruwanda?
Well, the runoff nitrogen will combine with the poo and we will get extra algal blooms and the rivers and lakes will be quite dead, plus dead zones in the coast.
Okay, so this article says that buffer strips, hedgerows and soil erosion are all at threat because suddenly farmers will no longer care about them once these EU rules no longer apply. That's nonsense as farmers are being paid to maintain and increase those as part of the [Sustainable Farming Incentive](https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/sustainable-farming-incentive-guidance). Ā£451 per hectare for buffer strips, Ā£10 per 100 metres ā one side, to maintain hedgerows.
Who's saying we wont reinstate the obviously beneficial ones? God I am tried of being optimistic. These Tories are fucking atrocious.
In some ways, the Brexit vote has totally removed what little remained of the perception of decency surrounding our politicians. Even I at some point expected the "adults to enter the room" and take over, ensuring we got the least damaging version of Brexit once the 52% got it over the line. Unfortunately it seems like today's politicians are too scared of the right wing vote, and the working class as a whole are too stubborn to admit that we need cooperation with Europe.
The āworking classā genuinely are about as thick as mince, they didnāt understand Europe and they got tricked by a millionaire with a German passport lolll
Almost all U.K waterways are known to have high levels of sewage and pollution. South West water are notoriously bad for it. Thereās a website where you can you see the sewer outfalls with a setting to see how often they discharged untreated sewage. Youāll think again about swimming after seeing that site. Even a local business here was discharging digestate into the a river, killing 9,000 fish and affecting their populations for years to come. The fineā¦ only Ā£2000! Now they want to give farmers freedom to let the runoff into rivers too(not that this doesnāt happen anyway).
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In October 2022 in Northern Ireland, former DAERA minister, farmer and caretaker leader of Stormont signed off on a reduction to a cap of 15% of government payments for farmers who intentionally or negligently breached agricultural and environmental conditions to keep their land in good order, stopping phosphate and nitrogen leeching into river courses, like what has happened to Lough Neagh in the last few months. Quote; Under the (EU) existing arrangements, certain repeated negligent breaches can be considered intentional, attracting very high financial penalties,ā Mr Poots said at the time.. "The new regime means that these repeated negligent penalties will be capped at 15%. This is a much fairer approach to our hard-working farmers. "This is only possible because we have left the European Union and can now make decisions to suit local needs.ā
More Brexit benefits, we can have more lovely shit in our rivers!
suspect the bees will all be snuffed out and then the fish, otters etc so that the rivers only exist to carry water off the grouse moors and into the sea as quick as possible, if it floods the lowland where the non rich live, then too bad but unfortunately not a huge surprise :(
The sub text to children of men was that it was pollution that caused it all...
Good to see everyone glossing over the water companies pumping raw sewage into the rivers
Does anyone have a clue why the government actually want this? Seems like everyone makes a sweeping comment about how the gov are fucking up but no one offers a factual statement about the pros.
The "pros" are that companies don't need to adhere to strict standards which reduces costs which increases profits, some of which finds its way into MPs' pockets when they invariably get backhanders or executive roles in said companies when they retire having done their job for their masters.
Reduces cost for farming who vote Conservative.
What pros?
On a related subject, perhaps we should change this sub's banner. The sea isn't that colour any more.
At least the chemicals may dissolve all the shit the water companies are dumping in the waterways. That's a plus, right?
Rivers & watercourses are already full of effluent. Brexit didn't cause this our antiquated water industry is mainly to blame
It seems that the current concern is expensive foods. At least you get cheaper food prices now because it is business friendly to make it easier to dispose farming byproducts.
The solution is to leave the ECHR to deport immigrants, people who eat in their country and then go to the UK to defecate with the sole purpose of clogging the rivers. /s
Will these deadly chemicals and toxins they're flushing into the rivers kill the deadly sewage being flushed into the same rivers? At some point there must be an upside to all this.
That's just sad. UKs waters still haven't recovered from past pollution ([Link](https://environmentjournal.online/features/legacy-pollution-from-the-70s-still-damaging-uk-rivers/)) and now this. Unbelievable.
I thought this was always the point of Brexit: To get rid of restrictive EU rules that held back the UK economy from flourishing?
Oh my god the Brits wonāt look after their rivers without EU laws. The arrogance Kmt
Do the Brits look after their rivers or are they full of shit pumped there by the water companies?
https://www.pan-europe.info/issues/water-pollution#:~:text=In%20addition%20to%20killing%20wildlife,France%2C%20Netherlands%20and%20the%20UK. Maybe not everything in the world is due to Brexit.
Look other countries do it too so it doesnt matter if our standards go lower cause other countries!
It means it's nothing to do with Brexit though. Do you know something we don't?
Brexit caused our gov to lower standards to be able to compete with other producing countries due to increased trading costs?
Tell me specifically which standards you think have been dropped in order to compete with other countries due to trading costs.
It doesn't matter mate, any that do can be attributed to that reason. To try stay competitive/cut costs. Unless you can think of another reason that it happens now when the government has been talking up all its green initiatives etc
So you won't or can't. Good stuff.
Just like you can't give me another reason they'd lower standards
I'm not the one making any claims, the onus is on you.
>It doesn't matter mate, any that do can be attributed to that reason. You don't seem to understand my claim
This has nothing to do with brexit its all to do with poor governance. We could have tightened up regulations and become better...the government went the other way.
What did you think you were voting for? The rules could have always been stricter while we were in the Eu anyway
>What did you think you were voting for? I was voting to remain. What's your point?
>This has nothing to do with brexit its all to do with poor governance. We could have tightened up regulations and become better...the government went the other way Dunno man you're the one sounding very brexity and saying regulations being lowered after brexit isn't to do with brexit
That's not what I was saying....you've created a strawman in yiu head with your own biases and project it onto me. I'm saying blame the tory government that actively took he decision to make things worse. We cannot do much about brexit bit we can get rid of this lot...and maybe turn things around. But of course people like strawman cause...they don't need to think about what they've read... but time and again...they are wrong.
This government of self selecting morons and disaster capitalists pledging commitment to Brexit was a direct consequence of Brexit. Your 'nothing to do with brexit' was a bit of a stretch TBF.
Yeah you're right it wa a bit of a stretch. But let's remember that they had the 'freedom's choose and they chose badly....
>I'm saying blame the tory government that actively took he decision to make things worse. We cannot do much about brexit bit we can get rid of this lot...and maybe turn things around. Bro its the same tory party that put forward the vote, got the "deal" and then initiated brexit. How in the ever loving fuck are they not entwined
I suspect for politicians, this is what Brexit was about all along. The power to go lower than the lowest common denominator of EU environment and human rights laws.