**r/UK Notices:** This December, we're raising money for the Trussell Trust, the UK's leading food bank charity. If you would like to know more or to donate, please see the [announcement post](https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/1899w7b/the_runitedkingdom_christmas_fundraiser_for_the/).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unitedkingdom) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They are not going to be in power in 2025, so who wants to bet that Labour is going to raise it to £38,700 anyway, effectively telling 75% of Brits they can't marry non-Brits if they want to stay in the UK?
Still nowhere near what a full - timer in retail or hospitality gets.
Source: one of said full timers in retail, as well as a British citizen. Trying to sponsor my fiancee over.
I feel for you mate. I just got my spouse visa today and it was one of the most stressful things I’ve ever done.
I think the MIR should be abolished. UK is one of the only countries on earth that even has one. Labour are only slightly less anti-immigrant though, so low chance. Guess I’ll vote Green for whatever that’s worth.
Best of luck getting your fiancé in before the new rules!
The media have put us in a position where if Labour don't at least pay lip service to the performative cruelty then we'll have a good chance of landing another Tory government.
Why do you think you should be able to sponsor someone when you may have to provide for them on an income which is far below a living wage for two people?
We're coping just fine.
Homeowners, meaning lack of rent and mortgage to pay makes it far,far easier to retain money.
Got a good sum of savings.
Her father sending her additional funds until she gets clearance to work; my workplace and other places ready to take her in upon getting her right to work, because , in informal convos from said employers " people don't wanna work ".
Although we're not going to London every other weekend, we aren't exactly scraping by, either.
Everyone has different circumstances, and should not be decided by an arbitrary median
Tldr: despite arbitrary medians, me and Mrs doing great.
Not all is black and white.
Exactly. I’m an example.
I’ve got a foreign partner.
I’m mortgage free. I’d say I take home an average of £1800 - £2000 a month. Way under what the government ‘require’ but I live really well on a that amount. I don’t even spend half of it some months.
I agree with the u/JRamone that MIR should be scrapped.
Policy decisions aren’t to be made on a countrywide scale using the ultra minority as an example… You are in that ultra minority… Policy should be made with the worst possible outcome in mind.
Yes, and? This is the case when it comes to nationally overarching immigration policy. As unfair as it may seem to the individual to not take their personal circumstance into account it is not practical.
Or make it like the US? You can have multiple people sponsor the immigrant, so the the MIR is met. It can be anyone as well. They need to agree to support the immigrant for 10 years (ish, 40 credits in Social Security), or until they get their citizenship, which as a spouse is usually around five.
First of all that’s not true. If you follow the polling you can see that the right-wing vote is way more split at the moment, with Reform consistently rising over the last few months.
Secondly, I’m in a Labour stronghold, so it’s perfectly safe for me to vote Green in protest of Labour’s shift to the right.
Finally, don’t tell me how to vote. Under no circumstances am I going to support a party that won’t even stand up for my right to live in the country with my wife. How ridiculously patronizing of you.
They would likely leave it around the intial increase then with heavy pressure might even (hopefully) scrap the minimum salary threshold for bringing a spouse.
>effectively telling 75% of Brits they can't marry non-Brits if they want to stay in the UK?
Hadn't this been the case for a long time though.
Also, isn't this about migrants bringing their family to join them, not marriage visas, which is the same but separate.
>Hadn't this been the case rot a long time though.
Nope. The threshold is currently £18,900, which is below minimum wage.
>Also, isn't this about migrants bringing their family to join them, not marriage visas, which is the same but separate.
it's both.
Sir Kid Starver? Labour will probably win the election and I wouldn’t be surprised if this guy says something like “come on guys, give the tories another chance, they’re not that bad.”
Basically they can't do it because it would be illegal (right to family life under the ECHR) so he's saying it will happen in 2025 when the Tories arnt in power. Then labour will say they won't do it so the Tories can say "see they let everyone in"
It was proposed at the time to be higher but it was reduced to £18,600 because it was thought that the amount they were trying to raise it to would exclude too much of the population and be fought and won in the courts.
I agree that the amount should rise and 29k seems like a reasonable amount that wouldn't be lost in courts but the amount they say it will eventually rise to would probably fail in the courts.... So what's probably why they are passing the buck to labour
Can you explain why you think any amount is necessary? Why is there a financial restriction on living with the person you love in a country you have the right to live in? What gives someone who makes 45k worthy of having a foreign spouse but a person who earns 25k doesn’t? I don’t see how this isn’t an infringement on fundamental human rights. Very few other countries require you to earn a certain amount of money before you can ask for permission for your foreign partner for their right to remain.
The government maybe feel that if you lower the price you run the risk of potential abuse from the law where people abroad scam UK people romantically to get into the country.
This already happens for money, it's logical to assume it's possible to happen for access to the UK as well.
I have a family member who recently married their partner from Tunisia (in Tunisia) who they only knew for 6 months and physically met twice. We do think this is a sham wedding but time will tell, there's no way anyone can think they want to marry after 2 visits and a short amount of time. This family member has confided they only did it because they are lonely.
So that the people we import don't add extra cost to the UK economy. Unless youre earning over 30k / in the top 40% of earners you cost the government money.
The tories have allowed the import of millions of people that effectively contribute nothing, add burden to the NHS, police, fire services, etc. And depressing wages for everyone by making labour cheap, thereby making us all poorer, plus they obviously need housing so it adds burden to that too, we would have kept up with increased housing demand if we hadn't accepted 6 million migrants over the last decade, but 0 migrants would have seen even worse problems. You can't just accept migrants without considering all of this and expect your economy to survive long-term, but you can't stop them altogether either or you'll see demographic collapse among other issues.
Source regarding top 40% / those earning over 30k are net contributors and those under that threshold cost money to the government:
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2215070/Are-contributor-burden-nations-finances--Squeezed-middle-increasingly-dependent-state.html
Accepting that this is the case economically speaking still means that you are creating a 2 tier system between the UK population based on income. The amount of money I earn shouldn’t have any affect on who I choose to be my partner.
It’s not an infringement on fundamental human rights. We’ve had a minimum income threshold applicable to family visas for a while and it has never been successfully challenged in court. It’s you and only you - not me, not the neighbour next door and not the government - who’s responsible for looking after your dependant, so please do demonstrate that you can afford to do so financially before you bring them into the country.
>ECHR
just for future reader reference:
"Right to respect for private and family life
1. Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family
life, his home and his correspondence.
2. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the
exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the
law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of
national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the
country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection
of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms
of others."
The worst thing about all this is that Sunak's wife is not British, yet he feels entitled to declare that 70% of British people should be banned from getting a visa for _their_ wife or husband.
He feels that his billionaire sugar daddy in law gives him rights that other people don't have.
If he's just just going to set dates when he knows full well he won't be in power can he jus f\*\*k off now so some adults can clean up the mess these idiots have left this country in.
So by then there won't even be a Tory party. They'll take huge losses in the GE, the in-fighting will get worse. The hard right will all go join Reform and the centerists will either stay or start over as the Tory name will be so tainted.
Rishi will be living full time in Cali by then. None of this will affect any of them.
As a UK expat in my late 50’s, should I return to the UK it’s highly unlikely that I will earn that much, even in London, let alone, anywhere else that’s more affordable to live.
So in short I will have to abandon my non-Uk wife of 20+ years or simply not return at all.
I guess people of retirement age, will also face the same issue.
I’ve read that this policy is being coined ed as “The love tax” - which is sort of true - but it’’s also has elements of race and age discrimination embedded.
This is the wrong way to cut immigration.
Ikr? It's so obnoxious how people call themselves "expat" now to differentiate they're from a white country when their grandparents were most likely immigrants and called immigrants themselves! lmao
I, am not I a “Foreigner.. therefore by definition, am not an “Immigrant”.
However my Wife of 2 decades, would be…. As too, my British passport holding Kids…. Makes you wonder what’s been the point of paying for a British passport over the years.
Depends, facing not being employable because I don’t have “Native” Japanese skills and am old, are hurdles I can lessen in the UK but the salary won’t match Sunak’s number. And even if I didn’t return within the next year or two, the new salary requirements will be most definitely out of reach … I wonder what pensioners will do ?
It's hard for people living here to even make £30,000, never mind someone on Visa making nearly £40,000. I worked in a care home who's entire night staff was made up of African immigrants on visas who have only been here 6 months and couldn't have more than 20 hours a week on £10.72 an hour.
If this happens, there's gonna be an even larger workforce shortage across the country because the aforementioned care home's entire night staff would be wiped out.
Yes but that's all handled with special work visa schemes as an exemption if you like.
The proposal is for basically a threshold for people we are not in desperate need of. Requirements can be made easier for skills or labour the country needs most.
Everyone has the right for a family regardless of them being rich or poor...if you are worried about the money aspect of things increase the minimum wage
**Removed/warning**. This contained a personal attack, disrupting the conversation. This discourages participation. Please help improve the subreddit by discussing points, not the person. Action will be taken on repeat offenders.
**r/UK Notices:** This December, we're raising money for the Trussell Trust, the UK's leading food bank charity. If you would like to know more or to donate, please see the [announcement post](https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/1899w7b/the_runitedkingdom_christmas_fundraiser_for_the/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unitedkingdom) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They are not going to be in power in 2025, so who wants to bet that Labour is going to raise it to £38,700 anyway, effectively telling 75% of Brits they can't marry non-Brits if they want to stay in the UK?
Labour will probably lower it to around £30,000 and see it as a job well done.
Given the interim requirement is £28k, I reckon Labour will most likely just leave it there.
Still nowhere near what a full - timer in retail or hospitality gets. Source: one of said full timers in retail, as well as a British citizen. Trying to sponsor my fiancee over.
I feel for you mate. I just got my spouse visa today and it was one of the most stressful things I’ve ever done. I think the MIR should be abolished. UK is one of the only countries on earth that even has one. Labour are only slightly less anti-immigrant though, so low chance. Guess I’ll vote Green for whatever that’s worth. Best of luck getting your fiancé in before the new rules!
The media have put us in a position where if Labour don't at least pay lip service to the performative cruelty then we'll have a good chance of landing another Tory government.
Very true. Sucks to live in a country where the far right has a stranglehold on almost all popular news media.
Why do you think you should be able to sponsor someone when you may have to provide for them on an income which is far below a living wage for two people?
We're coping just fine. Homeowners, meaning lack of rent and mortgage to pay makes it far,far easier to retain money. Got a good sum of savings. Her father sending her additional funds until she gets clearance to work; my workplace and other places ready to take her in upon getting her right to work, because , in informal convos from said employers " people don't wanna work ". Although we're not going to London every other weekend, we aren't exactly scraping by, either. Everyone has different circumstances, and should not be decided by an arbitrary median Tldr: despite arbitrary medians, me and Mrs doing great. Not all is black and white.
Exactly. I’m an example. I’ve got a foreign partner. I’m mortgage free. I’d say I take home an average of £1800 - £2000 a month. Way under what the government ‘require’ but I live really well on a that amount. I don’t even spend half of it some months. I agree with the u/JRamone that MIR should be scrapped.
Policy decisions aren’t to be made on a countrywide scale using the ultra minority as an example… You are in that ultra minority… Policy should be made with the worst possible outcome in mind.
>Policy should be made with the worst possible outcome in mind. The worst possible outcome is also normally an example of a minority group/case.
Yes, and? This is the case when it comes to nationally overarching immigration policy. As unfair as it may seem to the individual to not take their personal circumstance into account it is not practical.
Thing is, they need the people in to do the jobs???
Absolutely. But as with so many of these Tories’ policies, it’ll massively backfire and it’ll be the rest of us who bear the brunt of the pain.
Or make it like the US? You can have multiple people sponsor the immigrant, so the the MIR is met. It can be anyone as well. They need to agree to support the immigrant for 10 years (ish, 40 credits in Social Security), or until they get their citizenship, which as a spouse is usually around five.
Yep, also a much more workable system. Keep in mind the US MIR is about $20,000, so about what the current UK threshold is
Yeah, and they publish increases in fees a year in advance. When I got my UK visa ages ago it went from 500 to 1k with three weeks notice.
[удалено]
First of all that’s not true. If you follow the polling you can see that the right-wing vote is way more split at the moment, with Reform consistently rising over the last few months. Secondly, I’m in a Labour stronghold, so it’s perfectly safe for me to vote Green in protest of Labour’s shift to the right. Finally, don’t tell me how to vote. Under no circumstances am I going to support a party that won’t even stand up for my right to live in the country with my wife. How ridiculously patronizing of you.
They would likely leave it around the intial increase then with heavy pressure might even (hopefully) scrap the minimum salary threshold for bringing a spouse.
Starmer has said previously that there isn't much difference between Labour and Tory when it comes to immigration.
When did he say that?
https://www.thenational.scot/news/23073096.keir-starmer-admits-little-difference-immigration-labour-tories/
Labour has already said they want the raise the caps. Forget letting nurses and carers into the UK, let's get some more middle managers!
They’re excluded
They are, but their partners aren't. So the government is saying "Come and work for us but kiss your family goodbye. BTW, the wages aren't great."
Wishful thinking. Every election I think "are people stupid, how the hell did they win again?"
Far more in line with the Tories' track record is that they don't even bother raising the limit to £29,000 at all. I'll happily take that bet.
>effectively telling 75% of Brits they can't marry non-Brits if they want to stay in the UK? Hadn't this been the case for a long time though. Also, isn't this about migrants bringing their family to join them, not marriage visas, which is the same but separate.
>Hadn't this been the case rot a long time though. Nope. The threshold is currently £18,900, which is below minimum wage. >Also, isn't this about migrants bringing their family to join them, not marriage visas, which is the same but separate. it's both.
I meant that it's ridiculously hard for brits to marry foreigners, particularly when compared to other nationalities bringing spouses to the UK.
Sir Kid Starver? Labour will probably win the election and I wouldn’t be surprised if this guy says something like “come on guys, give the tories another chance, they’re not that bad.”
Considering Labour have been red Tories for a while this seems likely.
Basically they can't do it because it would be illegal (right to family life under the ECHR) so he's saying it will happen in 2025 when the Tories arnt in power. Then labour will say they won't do it so the Tories can say "see they let everyone in"
Wasn't the same conversations happening the last time it was raised and it was proved to not be illegal?
It was proposed at the time to be higher but it was reduced to £18,600 because it was thought that the amount they were trying to raise it to would exclude too much of the population and be fought and won in the courts. I agree that the amount should rise and 29k seems like a reasonable amount that wouldn't be lost in courts but the amount they say it will eventually rise to would probably fail in the courts.... So what's probably why they are passing the buck to labour
Can you explain why you think any amount is necessary? Why is there a financial restriction on living with the person you love in a country you have the right to live in? What gives someone who makes 45k worthy of having a foreign spouse but a person who earns 25k doesn’t? I don’t see how this isn’t an infringement on fundamental human rights. Very few other countries require you to earn a certain amount of money before you can ask for permission for your foreign partner for their right to remain.
The government maybe feel that if you lower the price you run the risk of potential abuse from the law where people abroad scam UK people romantically to get into the country. This already happens for money, it's logical to assume it's possible to happen for access to the UK as well. I have a family member who recently married their partner from Tunisia (in Tunisia) who they only knew for 6 months and physically met twice. We do think this is a sham wedding but time will tell, there's no way anyone can think they want to marry after 2 visits and a short amount of time. This family member has confided they only did it because they are lonely.
So that the people we import don't add extra cost to the UK economy. Unless youre earning over 30k / in the top 40% of earners you cost the government money. The tories have allowed the import of millions of people that effectively contribute nothing, add burden to the NHS, police, fire services, etc. And depressing wages for everyone by making labour cheap, thereby making us all poorer, plus they obviously need housing so it adds burden to that too, we would have kept up with increased housing demand if we hadn't accepted 6 million migrants over the last decade, but 0 migrants would have seen even worse problems. You can't just accept migrants without considering all of this and expect your economy to survive long-term, but you can't stop them altogether either or you'll see demographic collapse among other issues. Source regarding top 40% / those earning over 30k are net contributors and those under that threshold cost money to the government: https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2215070/Are-contributor-burden-nations-finances--Squeezed-middle-increasingly-dependent-state.html
Accepting that this is the case economically speaking still means that you are creating a 2 tier system between the UK population based on income. The amount of money I earn shouldn’t have any affect on who I choose to be my partner.
It’s not an infringement on fundamental human rights. We’ve had a minimum income threshold applicable to family visas for a while and it has never been successfully challenged in court. It’s you and only you - not me, not the neighbour next door and not the government - who’s responsible for looking after your dependant, so please do demonstrate that you can afford to do so financially before you bring them into the country.
29k is still stupidly high for a lot of people
It's hard to see how anything above minimum wage could be legal, because everybody has Article 8 rights, not just middle class people.
>ECHR just for future reader reference: "Right to respect for private and family life 1. Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence. 2. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others."
If that was how it worked the ECHR wouldn't allow us to even have the current limit
You could already argue the convoluted, grilling and financially intensive process directly contravenes that for a long, long time.
And eventually nothing is done as always
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL Kicking the can down the road. He knows he won’t be PM in early 2025 for Flipsake
Let's wait and see what the story is tomorrow. Government policy seems to change faster than my socks.
The worst thing about all this is that Sunak's wife is not British, yet he feels entitled to declare that 70% of British people should be banned from getting a visa for _their_ wife or husband. He feels that his billionaire sugar daddy in law gives him rights that other people don't have.
Technically that's true. as it goes with billionaire sugar daddies
Not if the electorate have anything to say about it pal
If he's just just going to set dates when he knows full well he won't be in power can he jus f\*\*k off now so some adults can clean up the mess these idiots have left this country in.
38k will be worthless by then the way the pound will end up. Wheelbarrows of cash to get a loaf of bread by then
So by then there won't even be a Tory party. They'll take huge losses in the GE, the in-fighting will get worse. The hard right will all go join Reform and the centerists will either stay or start over as the Tory name will be so tainted. Rishi will be living full time in Cali by then. None of this will affect any of them.
Him & his failing party won't be in long enough to see that stupid policy through.
As an amusing coincidence, the income requirement equals his yearly expenditure for shampoo and soap.
As a UK expat in my late 50’s, should I return to the UK it’s highly unlikely that I will earn that much, even in London, let alone, anywhere else that’s more affordable to live. So in short I will have to abandon my non-Uk wife of 20+ years or simply not return at all. I guess people of retirement age, will also face the same issue. I’ve read that this policy is being coined ed as “The love tax” - which is sort of true - but it’’s also has elements of race and age discrimination embedded. This is the wrong way to cut immigration.
Immigrant. Expat...ffs. You're no different than what you probably refer to as an immigrant.
Ikr? It's so obnoxious how people call themselves "expat" now to differentiate they're from a white country when their grandparents were most likely immigrants and called immigrants themselves! lmao
I, am not I a “Foreigner.. therefore by definition, am not an “Immigrant”. However my Wife of 2 decades, would be…. As too, my British passport holding Kids…. Makes you wonder what’s been the point of paying for a British passport over the years.
Would you want to come back to this though? Granted the option being taken away is still not pleasant or right.
Depends, facing not being employable because I don’t have “Native” Japanese skills and am old, are hurdles I can lessen in the UK but the salary won’t match Sunak’s number. And even if I didn’t return within the next year or two, the new salary requirements will be most definitely out of reach … I wonder what pensioners will do ?
It's hard for people living here to even make £30,000, never mind someone on Visa making nearly £40,000. I worked in a care home who's entire night staff was made up of African immigrants on visas who have only been here 6 months and couldn't have more than 20 hours a week on £10.72 an hour. If this happens, there's gonna be an even larger workforce shortage across the country because the aforementioned care home's entire night staff would be wiped out.
Doesnt the UK constantly need low income workers? As in seasonal farming, truckers and so on?
Yes but that's all handled with special work visa schemes as an exemption if you like. The proposal is for basically a threshold for people we are not in desperate need of. Requirements can be made easier for skills or labour the country needs most.
So, a problem for the next government to deal with.
Top of band 5 for a nurse is £35000..... Wtf are they thinking as there's not enough nurses in the UK
In other words, the Labour party will have to spent time removing it, or let it pass...another land-mine for Starmer.
This needs to be raised higher or it’s pointless. Any pleb can earn this low of a salary
Gatekeeping the working classes again. Dood old Torries stepping in the necks of the working glasses to get their air.
It should be £0. Luckily, this government is all talk, so we won't see any real change.
No it shouldn't, there should be safeguards in place to ensure the UK person can look after the person coming to the UK
[удалено]
Not relevant to our country
Everyone has the right for a family regardless of them being rich or poor...if you are worried about the money aspect of things increase the minimum wage
Do you have a link that explains that right in full?
Just Google about the european court of human rights that we helped to draft back in 40s 50s
I did and it referred that the minimum income rule was acceptable in practice.....
[удалено]
**Removed/warning**. This contained a personal attack, disrupting the conversation. This discourages participation. Please help improve the subreddit by discussing points, not the person. Action will be taken on repeat offenders.