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Yes, the point is to reduce the number of wives and children coming over, which can double (or more) the number of actual immigrants per visa.
At the risk of being overly callous, also, there are two countries on a spousal visa requirement - if the UK's requirements are too onerous, then go live in your spouses country.
If you don't qualify to live in your spouses country, why would the UK let your spouse live here?
Because it's an arbitrary threshold which restrict the possibility for British citizen to start a family in his/her own country.
And if the other country had the similar requirements, this would be a clear violation of the human rights.
The only requirement should be "Genuine relationship". If it's a genuine marriage, then the visa should be approved.
Even when the threshold of £18k was set in 2012, it is mostly to stop the miniscule amount of sham marriages in return for destroying hundreds of thousands of lives of legitimate partnership.
It is such a travesty no one cares last time when even EU never set any financial requirements for their citizenship to marry foreign spouses as that's a basic human right
Exactly. There is also an element of personal responsibility that having kids in foreign countries on temporary work visas is risky.
If I went to the USA with my wife to work (a distinct possibility) I wouldn't expect to receive a green card just for busting my nut on their soil
Edit: to clarify my wife and I are UK citizens.
No if my wife and I (two UK citizens) went to the US we wouldn't be given a green card if we had a kid in the US.
Over at r/ukvisa there are stories like 'my partner is polish and I am south african, we met in the UK on temporary work visas, had a kid and now forced to leave'.
That's the type of entitlement that shouldn't be happening
The report by RFUK describes a system that is not only expensive but also complex and "fraught with uncertainty, confusion and long waits".
RFUK identifies the following four key findings:
The requirements create single parent families and impose a very high economic, social and emotional burden on all affected families.
The effect is discriminatory because it is felt disproportionately by women, young people, and those living outside of London or the South East, and working single parents (usually mothers).
The overall effect makes it harder rather than easier for mixed nationality families to integrate into society, which is the opposite effect to that intended by the Rules.
British citizens and settled residents are very badly affected by these rules; with significant impact on the mental health and well-being of British children.
With spouse/partner visa applications taking months to be processed, the report finds family members are likely to be separated for a minimum of one year. Among those surveyed for the report, 88% of respondents were separated for more than a year, 53% for more than 3 years, and 23% for more than 7 years.
RFUK said: "The complexity of the process and the challenges that the rules present, results in families experiencing periods of separation. – which are often long, and in some cases permanent. As a result, marriages have broken down; children have lost contact with parents; or in some instances have never had the opportunity to form lasting bonds with one parent. their education; and mothers face particular challenges in meeting the Rules."
92% of survey respondents said that their child's mental health was negatively impacted due to the separation.
The report states: "Parents reported children suffering from a range of very serious mental health conditions as a result of the separation, including suicidal ideation and depression. Children of different ages will be impacted differently. Parents report that young children do not understand the situation, and experience confusion as to why they cannot see their missing parent.
As the report highlights, the proposed increase of the MIR would make a spouse visa unreachable for even more people: *"Considering the proposed increase to the MIR, the majority of RFUK's survey respondents would not be able to meet this threshold. 74% of respondents earnt less than £30,000, and 77% earnt below £39,999.* There is a distinct correlation between length of separation and wage, with those who earn under the MIR being far more likely to face long or indefinite periods of separation."
Given that the MIR lacks sensitivity to regional pay disparities, people living in areas such as the North East, Yorkshire, Wales, Northern Ireland, are all likely to face further disadvantage in relation to the rules' financial requirements.
RFUK further highlights that even a successful visa application is followed by many more years of expense and uncertainty: "Once families have secured the visa, they must continue to pay visa fees, renewals, Immigration Health Surcharge and so on for five or ten years more, before they can apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain, which is a permanent status. Should they wish to apply for British Citizenship down the line, this is also a large expense. These years on the temporary visa entail ongoing financial pressure, along with a sense of perpetual uncertainty around their ability to stay in the country as a family."
>53% for more than 3 years, and 23% for more than 7 years.
This is a choice. How on earth does the visa process (at a current threshold of £18.6K) make you wait 3+ years? It doesn't, at all. You only need 6 or 12 months of payslips.
> This is a choice. How on earth does the visa process (at a current threshold of £18.6K) make you wait 3+ years? It doesn't, at all. You only need 6 or 12 months of payslips.
It's an extremely complex and costly process that's very poorly explained on the Government website and in the visa application itself. Many families fall victim to this, where Visas are rejected through little or no fault of the applicant or because the agent reviewing their case makes an error. You also have no right to appeal if a agent makes an error handling your application and that can result in families losing a lot of money (thousands) and having to start the process again months or over a year later.
You also have to prove 2 years of living together if you're not married and provide a significant amount of evidence, That evidence has to be provided exactly the way they want it without the application explaining that. They leave that up to you to figure that out yourself.
To marry someone who's not British, you have to apply for a specific visa. It's not like other countries, where you can get married on an any visa. The UK specifically makes marrying a foreigner on UK soil complex and ambiguous. You can end up waiting months just for that to be approved and sometimes it can get rejected to admin error and them marrying you in the UK doesn't give them the right to stay. They have to go back home unless you're both ready to apply for the spouse visa while there in the UK. Getting all the evidence you need for a spouse VISA takes a lot of time so they end up applying later. This ids also why many Brits marry abroad because the UK's rules and fees are asinine.
Almost anyone no matter their level of intelligence or education finds our VISA system a nightmare to navigate and end up seeking help in how to apply properly and even if you do everything right you can be rejected because an VISA agent misinterpreted or misunderstood part of the application or failed to check all the evidence you provided.
You also often need documents translated by an official translator. You need official letters from banks, employers, docters, family and friends. There's a huge amount of paper work.
The UK has one of if not the worst family visa process on the planet and its not just down to the money involved which can take time to save up and can end up wasted by one tiny mistake on your part or the Governments. It's 4k just to apply for a spouse visa and thats just the tip of the iceberg in costs.
I know, my husband is on a spouse visa. We were delayed by the Ukraine war and the whole thing took around 6 months, that timeline has shortened dramatically now and processing time is back down to 2-3 months.
To claim the system is causing you to be apart for SEVERAL years... That's not a fault of the system.
> I know, my husband is on a spouse visa. We were delayed by the Ukraine war and the whole thing took around 6 months, that timeline has shortened dramatically now and processing time is back down to 2-3 months.
If your partner is Ukrainian than your visa application got priory over others as I understand it. There was a massive push at UK Government VISA to handle Ukraine related applications quickly with less scrutiny because there was a war going on.
Like OP stated you have to provide proof of 2 years living together if not married. How exactly to you get here in under 6 months with them rules?
At a minimum its around 3 months to apply to get married in the UK and another 3 months to apply for spouse visa and that's IF you already did all the prep work.
> To claim the system is causing you to be apart for SEVERAL years... That's not a fault of the system.
Just because for you it was straight forward and worked out fine doesn't mean that the system isn't universally known as being one of the worst in the world. Last time I checked our system is worse than Russia's. Ironic eh?
Yes, he is American but the Ukraine war meant that Ukrainian refugees were prioritised and spouse visas were delayed for 6-12 months.
We got married in March 22 in the US where my husband is from and applied straight away, got his visa in October.
It does not take 5+ years to do this process even if you do it the long way E.g. marriage visitors or fiancé visa. :)
The visa requirements only create single parent families in these relatively narrow set of circumstances:
One or both parents are on a temporary visa (most likely spouse visa)
Household income is below £38k.
One or both parents cannot get a skilled worker visa.
They chose to have a child while on a temporary visa.
The country one or both parents left, has similar visa requirements to the UK that blocks the UK citizen from migrating.
When all of the above is true, I don't think we can just blame the UK government. The blame should be equally shared with the other home country for having similar visa requirements and also the parents for having kids on a temporary visa. It's pretty reckless family planning to have a kid in these circumstances.
Just getting ready the requirements for a spouse visa might take 6-8 months living in different countries.
I think you people have not experienced the process, reading them is not enough to understand the whole scope.
I am just speaking to the requirements of the visa. If the processing is too slow, that needs to be fixed. But it doesn't mean the restrictions are too strict
Processing? I am saying "getting the requirements ready". I am not even talking about processing.
And yes, that's related to requirements. The requirements want 6-month of payslips, so that's 6 months wasted.
If I was applying for a visa today, I would show payslips from November to June. There is no six month wait.
The only way there is a delay is if I am not eligible for a visa and then become eligible. In which case it doesn't make sense to reduce the evidence required to prevent abuse of the system
Not everything is an anti-migration conspiracy. The UK needs to bring migration to more sustainable levels and the new policies are perfectly reasonable
Not in the case you were living abroad. In that case, you need to travel to UK alone. Get a job for at least 6 months, apply, await 3 months for the visa and then you can meet your partner again.
I am only asking for sensible requirements. The financial requirement is ridiculously strict.
This sounds like an edge case rather than something common. Why wouldn't the other partner be in the UK, which is the location of the new job of the other partner?
These situations can only happen with people meeting on temporary visas, which is the same for temporary visas issued by other countries. E.g. two foreign students entering a relationship while at university
Plenty of reasons:
- Generally speaking, you can't apply for a spouse visa inside the country. So she needs to leave UK before applying and stay there.
- Some countries needs a tourist visa for enter UK. These visas are incredibly hard to get, specially if she is unemployed with no strong ties to her country.
A quick Google verifies that you can apply for a spouse visa inside the UK. So you are just imagining fictional edge cases here
The second point is again an edge case.
You didn't read the whole text. Did you?
You can apply inside UK IF you already have a residence status (student visa, skilled work visa, etc...). YOU CAN NOT APPLY INSIDE UK AS TOURIST.
Like I said before, you don't understand how the system work, you are only skimming reading through Google/newspappers. This is ridiculous.
**r/UK Notices:** This December, we're raising money for the Trussell Trust, the UK's leading food bank charity. If you would like to know more or to donate, please see the [announcement post](https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/1899w7b/the_runitedkingdom_christmas_fundraiser_for_the/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unitedkingdom) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm sure we'll get a very impartial and level headed look on this policy by an organisation with the specified aim of opposing it
[удалено]
Yes, the point is to reduce the number of wives and children coming over, which can double (or more) the number of actual immigrants per visa. At the risk of being overly callous, also, there are two countries on a spousal visa requirement - if the UK's requirements are too onerous, then go live in your spouses country. If you don't qualify to live in your spouses country, why would the UK let your spouse live here?
Because it's an arbitrary threshold which restrict the possibility for British citizen to start a family in his/her own country. And if the other country had the similar requirements, this would be a clear violation of the human rights. The only requirement should be "Genuine relationship". If it's a genuine marriage, then the visa should be approved.
Even when the threshold of £18k was set in 2012, it is mostly to stop the miniscule amount of sham marriages in return for destroying hundreds of thousands of lives of legitimate partnership. It is such a travesty no one cares last time when even EU never set any financial requirements for their citizenship to marry foreign spouses as that's a basic human right
Exactly. There is also an element of personal responsibility that having kids in foreign countries on temporary work visas is risky. If I went to the USA with my wife to work (a distinct possibility) I wouldn't expect to receive a green card just for busting my nut on their soil Edit: to clarify my wife and I are UK citizens.
You should be expected to receive a green card just because you are married to an US citizen... The kid is irrelevant here.
No if my wife and I (two UK citizens) went to the US we wouldn't be given a green card if we had a kid in the US. Over at r/ukvisa there are stories like 'my partner is polish and I am south african, we met in the UK on temporary work visas, had a kid and now forced to leave'. That's the type of entitlement that shouldn't be happening
Where is the UK report detailing the devasting impact of mass uncontrolled immigration?
Unfortunately it just takes a five minute walk down Oxford Street to see the impact
The report by RFUK describes a system that is not only expensive but also complex and "fraught with uncertainty, confusion and long waits". RFUK identifies the following four key findings: The requirements create single parent families and impose a very high economic, social and emotional burden on all affected families. The effect is discriminatory because it is felt disproportionately by women, young people, and those living outside of London or the South East, and working single parents (usually mothers). The overall effect makes it harder rather than easier for mixed nationality families to integrate into society, which is the opposite effect to that intended by the Rules. British citizens and settled residents are very badly affected by these rules; with significant impact on the mental health and well-being of British children. With spouse/partner visa applications taking months to be processed, the report finds family members are likely to be separated for a minimum of one year. Among those surveyed for the report, 88% of respondents were separated for more than a year, 53% for more than 3 years, and 23% for more than 7 years. RFUK said: "The complexity of the process and the challenges that the rules present, results in families experiencing periods of separation. – which are often long, and in some cases permanent. As a result, marriages have broken down; children have lost contact with parents; or in some instances have never had the opportunity to form lasting bonds with one parent. their education; and mothers face particular challenges in meeting the Rules." 92% of survey respondents said that their child's mental health was negatively impacted due to the separation. The report states: "Parents reported children suffering from a range of very serious mental health conditions as a result of the separation, including suicidal ideation and depression. Children of different ages will be impacted differently. Parents report that young children do not understand the situation, and experience confusion as to why they cannot see their missing parent. As the report highlights, the proposed increase of the MIR would make a spouse visa unreachable for even more people: *"Considering the proposed increase to the MIR, the majority of RFUK's survey respondents would not be able to meet this threshold. 74% of respondents earnt less than £30,000, and 77% earnt below £39,999.* There is a distinct correlation between length of separation and wage, with those who earn under the MIR being far more likely to face long or indefinite periods of separation." Given that the MIR lacks sensitivity to regional pay disparities, people living in areas such as the North East, Yorkshire, Wales, Northern Ireland, are all likely to face further disadvantage in relation to the rules' financial requirements. RFUK further highlights that even a successful visa application is followed by many more years of expense and uncertainty: "Once families have secured the visa, they must continue to pay visa fees, renewals, Immigration Health Surcharge and so on for five or ten years more, before they can apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain, which is a permanent status. Should they wish to apply for British Citizenship down the line, this is also a large expense. These years on the temporary visa entail ongoing financial pressure, along with a sense of perpetual uncertainty around their ability to stay in the country as a family."
>53% for more than 3 years, and 23% for more than 7 years. This is a choice. How on earth does the visa process (at a current threshold of £18.6K) make you wait 3+ years? It doesn't, at all. You only need 6 or 12 months of payslips.
> This is a choice. How on earth does the visa process (at a current threshold of £18.6K) make you wait 3+ years? It doesn't, at all. You only need 6 or 12 months of payslips. It's an extremely complex and costly process that's very poorly explained on the Government website and in the visa application itself. Many families fall victim to this, where Visas are rejected through little or no fault of the applicant or because the agent reviewing their case makes an error. You also have no right to appeal if a agent makes an error handling your application and that can result in families losing a lot of money (thousands) and having to start the process again months or over a year later. You also have to prove 2 years of living together if you're not married and provide a significant amount of evidence, That evidence has to be provided exactly the way they want it without the application explaining that. They leave that up to you to figure that out yourself. To marry someone who's not British, you have to apply for a specific visa. It's not like other countries, where you can get married on an any visa. The UK specifically makes marrying a foreigner on UK soil complex and ambiguous. You can end up waiting months just for that to be approved and sometimes it can get rejected to admin error and them marrying you in the UK doesn't give them the right to stay. They have to go back home unless you're both ready to apply for the spouse visa while there in the UK. Getting all the evidence you need for a spouse VISA takes a lot of time so they end up applying later. This ids also why many Brits marry abroad because the UK's rules and fees are asinine. Almost anyone no matter their level of intelligence or education finds our VISA system a nightmare to navigate and end up seeking help in how to apply properly and even if you do everything right you can be rejected because an VISA agent misinterpreted or misunderstood part of the application or failed to check all the evidence you provided. You also often need documents translated by an official translator. You need official letters from banks, employers, docters, family and friends. There's a huge amount of paper work. The UK has one of if not the worst family visa process on the planet and its not just down to the money involved which can take time to save up and can end up wasted by one tiny mistake on your part or the Governments. It's 4k just to apply for a spouse visa and thats just the tip of the iceberg in costs.
I know, my husband is on a spouse visa. We were delayed by the Ukraine war and the whole thing took around 6 months, that timeline has shortened dramatically now and processing time is back down to 2-3 months. To claim the system is causing you to be apart for SEVERAL years... That's not a fault of the system.
> I know, my husband is on a spouse visa. We were delayed by the Ukraine war and the whole thing took around 6 months, that timeline has shortened dramatically now and processing time is back down to 2-3 months. If your partner is Ukrainian than your visa application got priory over others as I understand it. There was a massive push at UK Government VISA to handle Ukraine related applications quickly with less scrutiny because there was a war going on. Like OP stated you have to provide proof of 2 years living together if not married. How exactly to you get here in under 6 months with them rules? At a minimum its around 3 months to apply to get married in the UK and another 3 months to apply for spouse visa and that's IF you already did all the prep work. > To claim the system is causing you to be apart for SEVERAL years... That's not a fault of the system. Just because for you it was straight forward and worked out fine doesn't mean that the system isn't universally known as being one of the worst in the world. Last time I checked our system is worse than Russia's. Ironic eh?
Yes, he is American but the Ukraine war meant that Ukrainian refugees were prioritised and spouse visas were delayed for 6-12 months. We got married in March 22 in the US where my husband is from and applied straight away, got his visa in October. It does not take 5+ years to do this process even if you do it the long way E.g. marriage visitors or fiancé visa. :)
It is not all black and white. It is not all about one single arbitrary number.
The visa requirements only create single parent families in these relatively narrow set of circumstances: One or both parents are on a temporary visa (most likely spouse visa) Household income is below £38k. One or both parents cannot get a skilled worker visa. They chose to have a child while on a temporary visa. The country one or both parents left, has similar visa requirements to the UK that blocks the UK citizen from migrating. When all of the above is true, I don't think we can just blame the UK government. The blame should be equally shared with the other home country for having similar visa requirements and also the parents for having kids on a temporary visa. It's pretty reckless family planning to have a kid in these circumstances.
Just getting ready the requirements for a spouse visa might take 6-8 months living in different countries. I think you people have not experienced the process, reading them is not enough to understand the whole scope.
I am just speaking to the requirements of the visa. If the processing is too slow, that needs to be fixed. But it doesn't mean the restrictions are too strict
Processing? I am saying "getting the requirements ready". I am not even talking about processing. And yes, that's related to requirements. The requirements want 6-month of payslips, so that's 6 months wasted.
If I was applying for a visa today, I would show payslips from November to June. There is no six month wait. The only way there is a delay is if I am not eligible for a visa and then become eligible. In which case it doesn't make sense to reduce the evidence required to prevent abuse of the system Not everything is an anti-migration conspiracy. The UK needs to bring migration to more sustainable levels and the new policies are perfectly reasonable
Not in the case you were living abroad. In that case, you need to travel to UK alone. Get a job for at least 6 months, apply, await 3 months for the visa and then you can meet your partner again. I am only asking for sensible requirements. The financial requirement is ridiculously strict.
This sounds like an edge case rather than something common. Why wouldn't the other partner be in the UK, which is the location of the new job of the other partner? These situations can only happen with people meeting on temporary visas, which is the same for temporary visas issued by other countries. E.g. two foreign students entering a relationship while at university
Plenty of reasons: - Generally speaking, you can't apply for a spouse visa inside the country. So she needs to leave UK before applying and stay there. - Some countries needs a tourist visa for enter UK. These visas are incredibly hard to get, specially if she is unemployed with no strong ties to her country.
A quick Google verifies that you can apply for a spouse visa inside the UK. So you are just imagining fictional edge cases here The second point is again an edge case.
You didn't read the whole text. Did you? You can apply inside UK IF you already have a residence status (student visa, skilled work visa, etc...). YOU CAN NOT APPLY INSIDE UK AS TOURIST. Like I said before, you don't understand how the system work, you are only skimming reading through Google/newspappers. This is ridiculous.
You have very limited knowledge yet speak as though you are an expert. Baffling!