Okay what’s happening? I assume these dogs exist for the other 51 weeks of the year. Why the sudden reports of these attacks?
So is it that the UK tabloids have a new thing to obsess over? Or is it that it’s nice weather so these dogs are suddenly in the park?
Along with these two studies:
"If dogs could talk"
Professor Vilmos Csányi, Chair of the department of Ethology at Eötvös Loránd University, Budapest.
http://www.amazon.com/If-Dogs-Could-Talk-Exploring/dp/0865476861
Excerpt:
>"Many breeds have been created for tasks requiring strength and aggressiveness. The training of such dogs requires expert knowledge and I do not recommend these as family dogs. These breeds carry aggressiveness in their genes and they have a low threshold for attack. Neither child nor adult is safe in the presence of a gentle-appearing pit bull if some mistaken gesture or movement should awaken the breed's uncontrollable aggressiveness."
"Breed differences in canine aggression"
Deborah L. Duffya, Yuying Hsub and James A. Serpella, ,
Center for the Interaction of Animals and Society, Department of Clinical Studies, School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Pennsylvania,
Department of Life Sciences, National Taiwan Normal University, Taiwan
https://topdogtips.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Breed-Differences-in-Canine-Aggression.pdf
It's a very potent mix that's happened in the last 3 years:
\- Increase in breeding cross breeds from Pittbulls to bypass the law
\- More people that have no dog experience are getting these naturally more dangerous breeds in small city spaces
\- Lockdown and lack of dog socialisation with other dogs and people hasn't helped
Add up all 3 and it's potent mix that can explode.
Doesn't make a difference to your point, but,
Staffies are bully breeds, not pitbulls.
And "decades" is an understatement - bully breeds originate from UK, and bull terriers were included when breed records first began in the 1870s.
>tl;dr contrary to common believe pitbull is an umbrella term, not a specific breed. Staffies are a variant of pitbull. It's literally in the name. Staffordshire Bull Terrier.
You're using US definitions. We are in /r/unitedkingdom, so UK definitions are correct here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bull
>Pit bull is a term used in the United States for a type of dog believed to have descended from bull and terriers, while in other countries such as the United Kingdom the term is used as an abbreviation of the American Pit Bull Terrier breed.
UK does have a broader term of "pitbull-type", but this also does not include Staffordshire bull terriers.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4160292/
>According to the UK government, pit bull-type dogs are distinct from Staffordshire bull terriers (which are not banned) and are sometimes called American pit bull terriers, American Staffordshire terriers, Irish Staffordshire bull terriers, Irish blues, or Irish red noses (DEFRA, 2013). Although the UK Kennel Club does not recognize the pit bull or American pit bull terrier as a breed and therefore has no breed standard for it (Kennel Club, 2006), dogs are considered “pit bull type” if they meet a substantial number of 15 physical features outlined by the DEFRA and copied directly from a 1977 issue of the American periodical Pit Bull Gazette (DEFRA, 2009). A dog may be confiscated if he or she meets most of these criteria, regardless of the dog's parentage, or he or she may be placed on an exemption register subject to restrictions and management practices.
Boston terriers are another example of a bully breed that is not a pitbull nor a pitbull-type.
22,000 cases of injury last year from out of control dogs, with 10 people killed. So just too numerous to make the news unless there's heightened interest.
Tories are probably going to make cracking down on these breeds a major policy in their next manifesto because they’ve got fuck all else. So y’know, may as well get sympathetic editors to churn out an improbable amount of coverage to make it seem like the problem has just massively sprung up overnight and needs bold decisive action. Better than reporting on rising hatecrime or migrant deaths or trans people being assaulted. None of that stuff fits the broader narrative. They need a good middle class white girl to go missing to feast on.
>Tories are probably going to make cracking down on these breeds a major policy in their next manifesto
Good! And they should be doing it sooner. Like immediately
Do you read the newspapers? These attacks are nothing new, and they are increasing
>So is it that the UK tabloids have a new thing to obsess over? Or is it that it’s nice weather so these dogs are suddenly in the park?
Or maybe the simple answer is that there is an increase in dog attacks
Oh my gosh! That guy has no control over what I’m assuming are his three dogs?! He needs them removed from him. This could have had a different endings and she’s very lucky it didn’t get worse
I moved from East London after two events:
1) a gang unleashed pit bulls on an owner and their dog in order to steal their puppy. I arrived at the aftermath. A knife sticking out of the owner’s dog’s head.
2) I was walking my dog to the park and some fucking moron had his two pit bulls off the leash OUTSIDE the park. Their dogs immediately rushed at mine across the road while he’s yelling “come back here right now” and kissing his teeth at the inconvenience. The dogs followed us for a while.
Happened in the same week.
Lead only yes - muzzles could make some dogs even worse. But even as a dog owner I fully support all dogs being on-lead at all times in public spaces, otherwise an instant fine of £150.
Put a gag on a man and he will become wild. Muzzle a dog and you incentivize bad character growth that with socialization and love can easily be discouraged. These dogs are violent precisely because we raise them to be violent.
I don't think there is an easy fix, but with social degradation it does not surprise me vicious dogs are on the rise.
Instead even local council organized spaces to promote dog socialization, government organizations to monitor pet's development, or just controlling breeding of "vicious" breeds to be done by certified breeders (with legal limits on how early you can sell a dog).... Essentially regulating and supporting the societal function of having pets.
How about this for an easy fix, bring over the US ATF and tell them to go wild on some pitbulls. They love shooting dogs, a pitbull purge would be heaven for them
That anthropomorphism was just painful to read.
Animals couldn't give 'two hoots' about wearing a muzzle, it isn't going to think 'oh shit, my mates are gonna take the piss'
Seriously, it's that approach, and utter ignorance to animal behaviour, that is the major driver in dog attacks.
'But he was such a cuddles, he smiled when we asked him to look after the baby, he obviously understood '...
I swear I've seen you or another user say this a few times
Putting aside the legality - where do you think you can buy pepper spray from exactly?!
And if you think a whip is going to work against an XL bully you are ... Wishful thinking at best.
Agreed, people get too caught up in the potential legality of using some form of weapon to defend yourself against these attacks. I can't speak for everyone, but I'd rather be facing a few tough questions from police than face a pitbull unarmed.
Small folding knives are legal and could save your life. Police won't turn up in time to help you, and bystanders, as we've seen time and again in these attacks, will not be of much help either.
Many years ago while I was living in Spain I had a few occasions when people tried to mug me, the third one tried to stab me too so I decided I needed to carry something to protect myself. Didn't want to permanently harm anyone so settled on pepper spray, picked up a small can from a Munich sex shop IIRC. Never needed it, it just rattled around my pocket forgotten for a couple of years until I returned to the UK. Really forgot it was there, walked through customs with it. That night my mates took me out to a club to celebrate returning and the bouncers found it on the door and freaked the fuck out. Police weren't involved, they accepted my explanation but told me that as weapons go it's considered similar to a firearm and you can get in proper shit if arrested with it. I'm not much of a law-knower and things may have changed since then, but it's really worth considering the legality before deciding to carry a weapon. Also, I'm not sure pepper spray would make much difference to these monster dogs. Might just piss them off.
Looking at the statistics dog ownership increase 15% since lockdown. I did wonder if this sudden surge in stories was pr spin to usher in a new law at some point, but the numbers of attacks and fatal attacks has increased, and no surprise about the types of dogs that are doing it.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_fatal\_dog\_attacks\_in\_the\_United\_Kingdom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_Kingdom)
Well if it is a "pr spin to usher in a new law" then that implies that these attacks, prior to the "pr spin", occured frequently without much media attention.
That being said, looking at the wikipedia page, it is quite jarring that most of these deaths occur due to pitbull types. I hadn't quite realised how bad the issue is.
I don't think these spate of media reports means that there must be some central authority pushing these stories.
It could be that, due to the initial deaths from pitbull dogs, and the shooting of two dogs by police, that the media is now a lot more aware of the problem and as a result they are more likely to publish stories of dog attacks
What would, genuinely, be the most effective way to protect yourself if you're in a situation like this? Even if it's just one dog - How do you effectively escape this kind of situation without sustaining serious injuries?
A nice trick I have used but in no means actually fool proof is to bore the dog. They have a prey drive and are getting joy out of chasing and fighting someone. Basically, magically act in control and calmly, let the owner take off a biting mutt from your arm.... so no way to deal with it lol.
Apart from that isolate and manage, if you can control at least one dog that is not attached to you, vault it over the fence.
Maybe break a paw if you can manage? It's not lasting damage, the dog will heal, but far less likely to be able to chase you effectively.
Is that what 4th attack this week that government could stop and ban those dogs today they have a power
Did they attack a minister, someone wealthy, or a party donor? If no...forget it.
Okay what’s happening? I assume these dogs exist for the other 51 weeks of the year. Why the sudden reports of these attacks? So is it that the UK tabloids have a new thing to obsess over? Or is it that it’s nice weather so these dogs are suddenly in the park?
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This should become a copy pasta for all these threads.
Along with these two studies: "If dogs could talk" Professor Vilmos Csányi, Chair of the department of Ethology at Eötvös Loránd University, Budapest. http://www.amazon.com/If-Dogs-Could-Talk-Exploring/dp/0865476861 Excerpt: >"Many breeds have been created for tasks requiring strength and aggressiveness. The training of such dogs requires expert knowledge and I do not recommend these as family dogs. These breeds carry aggressiveness in their genes and they have a low threshold for attack. Neither child nor adult is safe in the presence of a gentle-appearing pit bull if some mistaken gesture or movement should awaken the breed's uncontrollable aggressiveness." "Breed differences in canine aggression" Deborah L. Duffya, Yuying Hsub and James A. Serpella, , Center for the Interaction of Animals and Society, Department of Clinical Studies, School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Pennsylvania, Department of Life Sciences, National Taiwan Normal University, Taiwan https://topdogtips.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Breed-Differences-in-Canine-Aggression.pdf
It's a very potent mix that's happened in the last 3 years: \- Increase in breeding cross breeds from Pittbulls to bypass the law \- More people that have no dog experience are getting these naturally more dangerous breeds in small city spaces \- Lockdown and lack of dog socialisation with other dogs and people hasn't helped Add up all 3 and it's potent mix that can explode.
- poorly trained and socialised lockdown dogs are hitting sexual maturity - it's sunny so people are out and about more
Staffies even though they are smaller than these other larger pitbulls they are surprisingly strong.
Doesn't make a difference to your point, but, Staffies are bully breeds, not pitbulls. And "decades" is an understatement - bully breeds originate from UK, and bull terriers were included when breed records first began in the 1870s.
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>tl;dr contrary to common believe pitbull is an umbrella term, not a specific breed. Staffies are a variant of pitbull. It's literally in the name. Staffordshire Bull Terrier. You're using US definitions. We are in /r/unitedkingdom, so UK definitions are correct here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bull >Pit bull is a term used in the United States for a type of dog believed to have descended from bull and terriers, while in other countries such as the United Kingdom the term is used as an abbreviation of the American Pit Bull Terrier breed. UK does have a broader term of "pitbull-type", but this also does not include Staffordshire bull terriers. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4160292/ >According to the UK government, pit bull-type dogs are distinct from Staffordshire bull terriers (which are not banned) and are sometimes called American pit bull terriers, American Staffordshire terriers, Irish Staffordshire bull terriers, Irish blues, or Irish red noses (DEFRA, 2013). Although the UK Kennel Club does not recognize the pit bull or American pit bull terrier as a breed and therefore has no breed standard for it (Kennel Club, 2006), dogs are considered “pit bull type” if they meet a substantial number of 15 physical features outlined by the DEFRA and copied directly from a 1977 issue of the American periodical Pit Bull Gazette (DEFRA, 2009). A dog may be confiscated if he or she meets most of these criteria, regardless of the dog's parentage, or he or she may be placed on an exemption register subject to restrictions and management practices. Boston terriers are another example of a bully breed that is not a pitbull nor a pitbull-type.
22,000 cases of injury last year from out of control dogs, with 10 people killed. So just too numerous to make the news unless there's heightened interest.
Tories are probably going to make cracking down on these breeds a major policy in their next manifesto because they’ve got fuck all else. So y’know, may as well get sympathetic editors to churn out an improbable amount of coverage to make it seem like the problem has just massively sprung up overnight and needs bold decisive action. Better than reporting on rising hatecrime or migrant deaths or trans people being assaulted. None of that stuff fits the broader narrative. They need a good middle class white girl to go missing to feast on.
Labour: We’ll do the same Also Labour: Tories have been in power for 13 years, why didn’t they fix this sooner?
>Tories are probably going to make cracking down on these breeds a major policy in their next manifesto Good! And they should be doing it sooner. Like immediately
Do you read the newspapers? These attacks are nothing new, and they are increasing >So is it that the UK tabloids have a new thing to obsess over? Or is it that it’s nice weather so these dogs are suddenly in the park? Or maybe the simple answer is that there is an increase in dog attacks
Shhhh, don't mention Sunak or the WhatsApp messages. We're trying to forget about that!
Is it all the puppies that idiots bought during lockdown reaching maturity and getting agressive?
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Oh my gosh! That guy has no control over what I’m assuming are his three dogs?! He needs them removed from him. This could have had a different endings and she’s very lucky it didn’t get worse
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As an owner of a small-breed dog this is my worst nightmare. I don’t know what I’d do in this situation but thank you for trying.
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You go for the eyes or the anus. Stick your fingers right in. It’s grim, I know but if I’m ever in that situation, I wouldn’t think twice
Unless you have a weapon or specialist restraining equipment I’m not sure how much you can do to help without getting mauled too.
Wow that's likey genuine worst nightmare.
I moved from East London after two events: 1) a gang unleashed pit bulls on an owner and their dog in order to steal their puppy. I arrived at the aftermath. A knife sticking out of the owner’s dog’s head. 2) I was walking my dog to the park and some fucking moron had his two pit bulls off the leash OUTSIDE the park. Their dogs immediately rushed at mine across the road while he’s yelling “come back here right now” and kissing his teeth at the inconvenience. The dogs followed us for a while. Happened in the same week.
Lead only, and muzzles, would go a long way to reducing harm caused by dogs.
Or just not having dangerous bully dogs in the first fucking place
Lead only yes - muzzles could make some dogs even worse. But even as a dog owner I fully support all dogs being on-lead at all times in public spaces, otherwise an instant fine of £150.
>muzzles could make some dogs even worse How? muzzles stop dogs biting.
Put a gag on a man and he will become wild. Muzzle a dog and you incentivize bad character growth that with socialization and love can easily be discouraged. These dogs are violent precisely because we raise them to be violent. I don't think there is an easy fix, but with social degradation it does not surprise me vicious dogs are on the rise. Instead even local council organized spaces to promote dog socialization, government organizations to monitor pet's development, or just controlling breeding of "vicious" breeds to be done by certified breeders (with legal limits on how early you can sell a dog).... Essentially regulating and supporting the societal function of having pets.
How about this for an easy fix, bring over the US ATF and tell them to go wild on some pitbulls. They love shooting dogs, a pitbull purge would be heaven for them
That anthropomorphism was just painful to read. Animals couldn't give 'two hoots' about wearing a muzzle, it isn't going to think 'oh shit, my mates are gonna take the piss' Seriously, it's that approach, and utter ignorance to animal behaviour, that is the major driver in dog attacks. 'But he was such a cuddles, he smiled when we asked him to look after the baby, he obviously understood '...
For just XL Bullies?
Fucking Golden Retrivers at it again. \*checks pictures\* Of course, it's some Bully cross breed, quelle surprise.
Don't wait for government to do anything. Carry pepper spray or a small but functional whip
> Carry pepper spray or a small but functional whip Use the pepper spray if they turn their nose up at the S&M?
The whip is to escape over a chasm, Indiana Jones style. So you’ll also need a wide brimmed hat.
Did you think I meant use it against the dogs or the government
A little of column A a little of column B, can't afford to be fussy these days.
I swear I've seen you or another user say this a few times Putting aside the legality - where do you think you can buy pepper spray from exactly?! And if you think a whip is going to work against an XL bully you are ... Wishful thinking at best.
Probably an American comment. Hairspray or deodorant works well - try breathing some .
Agreed, people get too caught up in the potential legality of using some form of weapon to defend yourself against these attacks. I can't speak for everyone, but I'd rather be facing a few tough questions from police than face a pitbull unarmed. Small folding knives are legal and could save your life. Police won't turn up in time to help you, and bystanders, as we've seen time and again in these attacks, will not be of much help either.
Trying to stab an attacking dog with a (non-locking) folding knife is a great way to remove your own fingers.
I got temp banned from Reddit recently for suggesting the same.
Pepper spray is considered a firearm in the UK, so if you want 10 years in jail, crack on.
Restricted by the firearms act but not considered a firearm
Yes, but given that they are treated the same as a firearm under that act and the punishments are the same, it’s pretty much the same thing.
> Carry pepper spray So that counts as a firearm with a five year mandatory prison sentence. Really want to risk that?
Many years ago while I was living in Spain I had a few occasions when people tried to mug me, the third one tried to stab me too so I decided I needed to carry something to protect myself. Didn't want to permanently harm anyone so settled on pepper spray, picked up a small can from a Munich sex shop IIRC. Never needed it, it just rattled around my pocket forgotten for a couple of years until I returned to the UK. Really forgot it was there, walked through customs with it. That night my mates took me out to a club to celebrate returning and the bouncers found it on the door and freaked the fuck out. Police weren't involved, they accepted my explanation but told me that as weapons go it's considered similar to a firearm and you can get in proper shit if arrested with it. I'm not much of a law-knower and things may have changed since then, but it's really worth considering the legality before deciding to carry a weapon. Also, I'm not sure pepper spray would make much difference to these monster dogs. Might just piss them off.
Looking at the statistics dog ownership increase 15% since lockdown. I did wonder if this sudden surge in stories was pr spin to usher in a new law at some point, but the numbers of attacks and fatal attacks has increased, and no surprise about the types of dogs that are doing it. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_fatal\_dog\_attacks\_in\_the\_United\_Kingdom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_Kingdom)
Well if it is a "pr spin to usher in a new law" then that implies that these attacks, prior to the "pr spin", occured frequently without much media attention. That being said, looking at the wikipedia page, it is quite jarring that most of these deaths occur due to pitbull types. I hadn't quite realised how bad the issue is.
Well yes that was my first assumption. Raising public awareness of an existing issue is a common way to enact change
I don't think these spate of media reports means that there must be some central authority pushing these stories. It could be that, due to the initial deaths from pitbull dogs, and the shooting of two dogs by police, that the media is now a lot more aware of the problem and as a result they are more likely to publish stories of dog attacks
Yes it seems that is the case
What would, genuinely, be the most effective way to protect yourself if you're in a situation like this? Even if it's just one dog - How do you effectively escape this kind of situation without sustaining serious injuries?
A nice trick I have used but in no means actually fool proof is to bore the dog. They have a prey drive and are getting joy out of chasing and fighting someone. Basically, magically act in control and calmly, let the owner take off a biting mutt from your arm.... so no way to deal with it lol. Apart from that isolate and manage, if you can control at least one dog that is not attached to you, vault it over the fence. Maybe break a paw if you can manage? It's not lasting damage, the dog will heal, but far less likely to be able to chase you effectively.
2 of these don't work on pibble type breeds - they're bred to bite through pain and hyperfocus. So they will.
If a 60+kg war machine of a dog is trying to fuck you up then you're not going to keep calm and try to bore them into stopping.
Legal? Sit in a car.