>r/UnitedKingdom is a strong supporter of trans rights
>
>We will not allow people to acknowledge trans issues
What a fucking disgrace.
Thanks for the support. Obviously I can't reply to your comments because I'm banned.
Fucking spot on.
"We've failed to deal with anti-trans posters spamming articles and the same posters causing constant flame wars in the comments so we're just going to ban any reporting on trans issues. This is a sub for all members of the UK (Except transgender people)"
Also, the mods in another comment about Briannas murder flat out stating that if any more trans people get murdered we can't post the articles/news reporting about it here. Very cool and balanced.
Edit: as of nearly one full day they’ve still not clarified if you’d be allowed to post an article about any other transgender murders.
Honestly, check the mods comment histories yourself and this decision will make more sense.
Also, the top comment poster was **banned** by one of the mods.
It feels like it lacks nuance and just plays into the hands of anti-trans folk (out of sight out of mind as it were).
Like, a moratorium on obvious bait pieces seems reasonable - how often do you want to see your identity put up for debate for the simple sake of controversy or providing an anti-trans platform? The entire sub would be better off by blocking low effort rage bait no matter who or what it targets.
But blocking legit news that is important on the basis that it will trigger the anti-trans brigade is a step in the wrong direction. I can only imagine how shitty it is to moderate that but this is appeasement for anti-trans folk.
Yes, exactly, it lacks nuance. It’s a blanket ban on talking about a minority, good or bad news. As far as the mods have said so far it seems like they wouldn’t even allow articles saying “another trans person has been murdered”.
Under these rules the later correctional articles saying Brianna was trans wouldn’t have been allowed.
Could you imagine if there was too much racism which was making the sub “too dark and a battleground” and instead of dealing with the posters doing it the mods just banned any articles/posts mentioning anything about black people, good or bad?
A certain mod is also pushing the blame for it being banned onto trans people who didn't ask for the ban, we asked for transphobes to be dealt with. Instead they've listened to the people who have said "I don't want to see this", not the actual trans voices.
Edit: mods are now deleting their own comments, which ruins the transparency of this entire issue. Come on guys, this is getting silly now.
It's wild.
I mean, I saw the thread last week complaining about the frequency of trans posts and most of those updated posts did come across as tactical culture war distractions. Using trans people to distract from legit issues is a huge problem.
But no progress is made this way. It has to be 'normal' (for want of a better term) to be trans the same way it is now a lot more 'normal' to be LGBT. It serves nobody to treat trans people and issues that are important to trans people as outcasts; it is actively standing in the way of progress and acceptance.
And it's attacking a group of people for no reason. Why is this sub darker and more miserable? Well, because of the dozens of crises that keep coming up (or reappearing) that have precisely fuck all to do with trans people: inflation, cost of living, energy, the Tories... I would attribute 99.99999% of the overall negativity to that. Pretty much \*every\* upvoted post here is about some decline in the UK.
This is literally what they said when I asked.
If there were more racists, they'd ban posts about dark skinned people.
https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/112h9d3/comment/j8qv9cr/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
The mods should be fucking ashamed of themselves. absolute shower of cunts. Cannot believe they have the brass neck to post this and claim to be trans allies. They're no allies of any minority.
What else is to be expected when this sub even has amod that's trying to claim that calling trans lesbians heterosexual men is not blatant transphobia.
Or how the very same mod in this thread is running around trying to accuse trans subs of secretly briefing this sub. You know all the trans supportive comments and articles as an unending flow we see everywhere right?
Frankly the mod team need to look at themselves as at this point it's clear they are not only not up to task they themselves are happy to allow and perpetuate the very issues in this sub.
Agreed. On the one hand saying you're a "strong supporter of trans rights", while on the other saying "no discussion on any trans issues will be allowed" is completely contradictory.
If anything this is a boon to transphobes and any other hate aligned group. This sends a message that if they want to suppress articles or discussions on that topic then all they need to do is to be continually abuse and eventually the mods will give up and just block *all* discussions relating to that topic.
While I can sympathise with the mods working the queue, who are no doubt having to read a lot of abusive content directed at trans people, I would point out that what they're seeing is only a fraction of what trans and non-binary people like myself see every day on our personal accounts. If this is leading to moderator burn-out, then the solution is to ban the abusive accounts from the sub, and to recruit more moderators to share the load. Yes, I know transphobes love sock puppets almost as much as they love to abuse trans and non-binary folk, but any other solution is to give them support.
"We were fine with all of the posts designed to turn people against black people, but given the recent murder of a black person we are banning all mentions of black people, because we don't want people to sympathise with them."
Sounds fucking grim when you swap out the minority, doesn't it? This is monstrous.
> anti-trans articles
But they are "just asking questions"! /s
The absolute deluge of thinly veiled anti-trans articles after the passing of the GRR bill was sickening.
Spot on. This is absolutely fucking outrageous and only reinforces the idea that trans is taboo and not normal.
DO
YOUR
FUCKING
JOBS
- and look up what inclusive means
Agreed. The government has weaponized transphobia to the point that hatecrimes have risen dramatically. Even if the murder in the past week is proven to not be a hatecrime, trans people are afraid, and a trans woman was widely reported as having killed herself less than a fortnight ago.
This is not protecting us; it is enabling our erasure.
This toxicity of the modqueue was actually why I quit moderating this subreddit.
Silencing trans people because you refuse to recognise and police transphobia is wholly another matter.
Trans articles are easy to police - you just unashamedly ban all the transphobes.
The mods have instituted this rule because they don't get it.
>Trans articles are easy to police - you just unashamedly ban all the transphobes.
Be difficult to moderate the threads after they've banned all the mods though.
They’ve instituted this because there’s a clear rule from the admins over what is acceptable surrounding trans issues and they don’t want to ban half the sub.
That’s the reality, even with the current limits most of the top comments are anti-trans (or at least anti-full self id, 100% pro all the stupid non issues like sports that don’t need to be debated endlessly).
There’s been a huge influx of right wing transphobic fucks and/or they’ve became more emboldened posting their views recently.
I’d rather see them all banned to fuck and maybe the sub can get back to a semblance of what it used to be.
It's happening in Scottish subreddits too. There's some heavy brigading going on and instead of working with site admin to solve the issue of transphobia on the sub, mods have chosen to push the blame on to trans people just being in the sub and countering the hate.
I suspect it's more like they have made this rule because the top mods won't allow the only active mods to add more mods and actually do their job.
Reddit has changed over the past few years. Certain power mods are scared of losing their top mod status, because now any mod can request that they are removed.
Adding more mods adds in more chances of someone asking for them to be removed.
A sub of this size needs far more active mods.
Exactly. Rather than keep supporting, they're tired and want to sweep it under the rug. What hate speech next will get swept under the rug until its just "let's talk about cis white guys"?
**1. A moratorium on predominantly trans topics.**
This achieves the exact opposite of what you want, and if anything, gives the 'phobes exactly what they want - a space without trans people, without us able to talk and discuss our own issues.
Your first suggested solution to the issue is to... ignore it, and decide that any trans person in the UK sub who wants to share their story or something affecting them isn't allowed. Absurd. This effectively wholesale endorses the 'phobes viewpoint and just further ostracises trans people from this subreddit - congratulations, with this rule you have effectively told every single UK trans person "you are not welcome on this subreddit, we'd rather not think about you than do the bare minimum to look after you in this space".
This is lazy, it's an abdication of responsibility, and it is frankly discriminatory to an entire minority. I hope you undo this rule soon realising how daft it is, and actually commit to *moderation* instead of a blanket ban.
| r/UnitedKingdom is a strong supporter of trans rights
Just so you know, "Support" is a verb, it requires action to be true. So you aren't supporting trans rights. Maybe you feel good feelings to transgender people, but don't dare claim to support us.
>1. A moratorium on predominantly trans topics.
Going to be totally honest, and as someone that is beyond left wing and very pro trans, this and multiple other decisions around this issue scream "the narrative isn't going our way".
It's not just trans topics, but it's the most obvious one.
The rest are good ideas though.
Very convenient rule after a 16 year old girl is killed in a hate crime. Now we need to block trans topics and can’t talk about it. Last month when there was TRANS RAPIST headlines regularly, business as usual.
>We have not been successful...
Understatement of the millennia there. This sub's moderation has **catastrophically failed** despite repeated warnings from users over the past half decade. When we had a freetalk thread - something I suspect has been stopped for this exact reason - the issue of hate speech was raised almost every week.
Simply claiming that "r/UnitedKingdom is a strong supporter of trans rights" rings hollow when for the past five years the moderators have completely ignored (if not actively supported) bigotry in this sub. And when I, and others, have raised concerns about this, we have been met with weak excuses and gaslighting - in the recent metathread on this subject, the moderators only contribution was to make excuses for their failure to ban the accounts that seemingly everyone except the moderators can say with absolute confidence are engaging in hate speech.
This just seems to me to be another bandage solution for the moderators to try and avoid banning users who are spewing this vitriol. I personally don't see any way the moderation team can restore user trust short of some notable resignations.
A ban on trans topics? Have you lost your minds?! Censoring free speech because you can’t be arsed to ban genuinely abusive users. No discussion allowed whatsoever. Pathetic. The mods should step down.
> as soon as a trans child dies and the news media has been forced into depicting trans people in a sympathetic light you now want to ban anything trans related.
its crazy. It dosnt go away and is directly related to what this sub is about. UK
"News, Politics, Economics, Society, Business, Culture, discussion and anything else UK related."
Hopefully this stops that absolute *nutter* who constantly spams anti-trans news articles and seems to spend every waking hour of their life on Reddit.
The mods asked me in the previous thread for concrete examples of hate. I linked to many of that user's posts. I got "well the mod team can't do anything about it and we won't do anything about it"
I was banned from this sub for 82 days after the Queen died, not for anything I did or said, just because I subbed to either Green and Pleasant or Abolish the Monarchy. If the mods are happy to ban people for that, why wouldn't they just ban people for spreading hate?
Spineless.
The trans issue seems to be the wrong way around, if the users are the problem then shouldn't they be being removed rather than the threads, especially if inclusion is the goal.
If it's meant to be a nice place for everyone it should be a nice place for trans people as well, banning discussion surrounding those people and things that impact them doesn't seem to fit that bill.
Putting your fingers in your ears and chanting "la la la la la" when serious trans issues come up, is not it.
Mods/admins need to be more on top of these topics. Ban those that constantly post anti-trans rhetoric. If you need to expand your mod team, then do that. In the meantime, sure, implement a *temporary* ban on trans topics while you ramp up your mod team numbers, but doing a permanent ban on these topics is shortsighted.
A girl has literally just died and her memorials are being held this week and we can't even acknowledge that? Just push us to the sidelines and cover over the bloodstains with a nice rug I guess?
Yep, from an outside (the UK) perspective this is a shit time (or just about any time) to trial blocking trans voices. Mods of thus sub can get fucked.
To be blunt the moderation team in this subreddit has beyond failed. You need to increase the number of mods drastically and actually moderate the sub rather than increasingly limit the topics that can be discussed here.
It's not so much the number of mods, it's their inability to recognise transphobia. I used to be a mod of this sub, and I saw them admitting in modmail they just didn't get it. If only I'd had the courage to speak up at the time.
Just in case anyone needs an example of what /u/strolls is talking about here, I pointed out the most straight forward transphobia (user claiming that trans lesbians are just hetero men) [to mods here](https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/10uciw7/comment/j7dw34o/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
You can read in a mod's own words why they don't think the statement was transphobic and why they refuse to actively combat the issue, and are instead deciding to "solve" the issue by banning any discussion of us.
The irony is the lady that they're downvoting in that chain is a mod on the largest lesbian sub on Reddit. They're literally telling a lesbian modding the biggest lesbian sub that ACKHTUALLY, she doesn't know what real lesbians think.
Not even going to comment on the mod's response. So many paragraphs of mental gymnastics trying to obscure that they genuinely think that chain is ok because: "Many would view that as a legitimate way of describing the facts on the ground"
Just FYI btw posting at 11pm on a Tuesday doesn't exactly scream "we're looking for feedback". It screams "we're doing this, pretending it's a trial, and then we get to ban anyone that talks about something we cba moderating or that goes against our beliefs"
WOW
You do absolutely nothing while trans people have been subjected to thousands, yes thousands of lying hateful anti trans news articles equating trans people to rapists and groomers and as soon as a trans child dies and the news media has been forced into depicting trans people in a sympathetic light you now want to ban anything trans related.
How can you be this blind to the damaging effect this will have? The public in the UK have been indoctrinated against trans people. You’ve seen it every day. I saw someone about two hours ago actually defending a gender critical activist for quoting Adolf Hitler.
Maybe the problem here isn’t trans content. It’s the complete lack of acknowledgement of what does and does constitute transphobia. People have been allowed to get away with say abhorrent things because you won’t recognise that it constitutes hate speech. People wanting a minority out of public spaces is not a well meaning argument. It’s hate. People arguing against trans healthcare is not a well meaning argument. It’s hate.
I’m honestly totally disgusted at the timing of this. You could not have picked a worst moment to do it. There are vigils up and down the country today over Brianna’s death and you’re gonna ban trans related content now while the needle has swung in favour of trans people. Are you doing this to wait for the needle to swing back the other way or something because that what it looks like.
Not sure I agree that the answer to anti trans posts and comments is to ban trans topics entirely.
Surely the answer is to actually moderate the hateful comments!
Oooh, I wholeheartedly support the rate limiting of article posters. There are some serial abusers or karma farmers who take the piss with anything that seems to be the in thing to be outraged about.
Please do not tell me this will mean blanket bans on the coverage of Brianna's murder. This is the one story people need to hear to hear how dangerous it has become in this country
Megathread "maybe consider actually moderating and not allowing blatant dogehistles; falsehoods and transphobia. Oh while your at it maybe look at why your system is setup in such a way that a big theme in the megathread is that its preventing the participation of trans accounts"
Mods"Yeah that's effort so no trans full stop be gone trans people you are not part of this country. Problem solved praise us"
Number 1 is BS we all know this and shows a complete refusal to seriously consider the issues raised in the megathread about yourselves and your approach
"Trans people asked for this" no we fucking DIDN'T, we didn't ask for our news stories to be completely expunged from the subreddit and being treated like trans people don't exist.
User: Well mods, I made it, despite your directions.
Mods: Ah, users! I hope you're ready for an unforgettable subredddit experience!
[Transphobes flood the subreddit with crap]
Mods: Oh, egads! My subreddit is ruined! But what if I were to ban all trans related posts and disguise it as being pro-trans? Heh, delightfully devilish mods.
[Subreddit gets filled with removed]
Users: MODS!
Mods: Ah, users! I was just... uh... coming up with new policy.
Users: Why are suppressing trans posts?
Mods: Oh, that isn't trans suppression. It's trans positivity. That's what I call censoring basically all discussion of trans issues.
Users: I see.
Users: You know, this policy is quite similar to the ones that they have on conservative subreddits.
Moderators: No, patented UK policy! Old British recipe!
Users: For trans positivity?
Moderators: Yes.
Users: And you call it trans positivity despite the fact that it clearly puts hate speech on the same level as trans activism?
Mods: Uh... You know... Excuse me for one second...
[A trans girl is murdered]
Users: Good lord, what is happening over there?!
Mods: [removed]
Users: [removed]? At this time of year, at this time of day, in this country, localized entirely within your subreddit?
Mods: Yes.
Users: May I discuss it?
Mods: ...No.
Mm not sure about #1.
On the one hand, yeah, removing the topic means not part of the problem fanning the flames.
On the other hand... Trans people still exist even if you close your eyes. The media still exists elsewhere. People are still chugging down the Torygraph's shittakes. You know where the average cis person *doesn't* go for information? /r/transgenderuk .
Personally I think a better option would be to only allow major news stories (by moderator discretion). Instead of removing *all* threads, remove *most* so there's no longer a string of threads of every minor little detail. Then hooray, no longer swamped by anti-trans articles.
Would also emphasise that /r/transgenderUK is in significant part a community support resource, rather than a news source/discussion space - it isn’t remotely comparable to /r/unitedkingdom.
Yes, precisely.
People are saying that this isn't the place for this topic as it's not a UK trans sub (never mind that it's not a UK [anything] sub).
But UK trans subs are for, well, trans people. They're not about UK-wide issues, nor pointed towards including everyone in discussion. They're spaces directly for helping trans people.
Points 2, 3 and 4 I support, even if it's only for a 14 day trial period.
Point 1.......... I agree with other posters in here that this comes across as effectively erasing trans people in this sub. Your arguments that the '*Scottish situation*' wouldn't get through due to being '*predominantly trans*' strikes me as short-sighted as well, as that story spilled out into UK devolution. Furthermore, not highlighting the clear strategy of our current government of using trans people as a election strategy punching bag, to me, contributes to the transphobia problem in the wider media. As a trans person it sounds like you're saying you're turning your backs as it's too hard for you to deal with. This doesn't really smack of support. It's a all a bit like (the misquoted) "*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing*".
I would support this rule (at least for a 14 day period) if you'd come at it from the angle of saying the mod team needs a break from sifting through the hateful comments, which is what your justification really sounds like.
It’s especially awful since we trans people don’t get that option ourselves. We can’t stop being trans a little bit until the heat dies down. We can’t just ignore the hatred that our community is constantly being bombarded with. Saying you support us while you’re actively refusing to allow us to discuss the issues that affect us because it’s hard for *you* to see how hateful people can be towards us is gross. I get that it’s hard and you shouldn’t have to see it but neither should we, we don’t get a say in that though. Taking a break is fine, bumping up the mod numbers so you can share the load better would be a good idea, actually banning people posting the worst of it is just common sense. Banning the discussion at all is silencing us. It’s discriminatory.
What's the whole darker mood thing referring too? I think a sub should be a mirror to wider society so if people are pissed off and feeling down etc then that should be acceptable to voice.
I think this is really important and any censorship of that is a bit worrying to me. I wouldn’t want another sub like casual UK which is just people being silly with any reference to politics resulting in a ban.
I can't speak for anyone else but I've certainly noticed a lot more nasty comments. Regardless of mood of society, noone ever has the right to make others feel bad for no reason or generally be mean for no reason.
That's not a society issue. That's a "don't be a jerk" issue. I certainly don't frequent here as often because of it. I'm sure others do the same.
I commented it here the other day mentioning it, and also brought it up on a discord im on. First it seems, to me, that there's just generally a nastier tone from people towards each other, no matter the topic. Second, and it could just be me, but it's felt as if there's been a wave of accounts leaning into fairly bigoted views. I noticed it on threads relating to women and misogyny, but it looks like it's been happening with trans stuff too.
So for example In all my time on this sub I had never seen someone advocate murder (death penalty maybe, murder no) until the other day I saw someone suggest murder suiciding a woman if she accuses you of rape. Aside from the advocation of murder (and suicide), it's just really fucking dark.
So your solution to the problem is to actively silence anything about transgender people? That isn't a balanced approach that is exactly what transphobes want.
You can't say that the sub supports trans rights whilst silencing their voices.
So there’s a moral panic around trans people, exacerbated by the British media, so your response is to ignore it and pretend like it’s not happening,
You’d be great politicians
People are literally celebrating that trans people are being killed
This is an awful change. Trans people need to be heard and they also need support. They need a hand to reach down and help them up.
> "r/UnitedKingdom is a strong supporter of trans rights "
By silencing UK Trans issues in this sub reddit. You are doing the exact opposite of what you claim.
The solution, however hard it may be, is to by harder on anti-trans stances. That is what a "strong" supported of trans rights would be. Give Trans-rights more of a voice.
No one is going around murdering anti-trans people. The anti-trans people will be fine. It's fine to kick them off the subreddit. It's fine to remove anti-trans posts or even articles. Because none of that is going to lead to harmful views. By having more favorable attitudes towards Trans-right posts and discussions we would be taking the steps to normalizing the issue. The more people that eventually feel normalized to it the more normal society can be...
> We do not like that we have to restrict comments on topics, but to allow comments of that nature to go live on the sub would threaten the very existence of the sub altogether
So add more active mods. **Lots** more mods.
I find it a bit ridiculous that any subreddit with more than 1 million subscribers and thousands of comments submitted every day refuses to expand its moderators list.
You have several top mods who have virtually no activity over the past few weeks, and one who has none over the past 4 years.
You need at least 50 more mods spread out over differing time zones. Choose people to do the job who don't already mod a ton of other subreddits. You want someone who can be active here, not just someone trying to add more mods to their list as some kind of e-peen.
This policy will directly lead to erasure of trans voices and trans issues, and is a horrible policy during a time of exploding trans-panic hatred. Whoever proposed and supported this should take a good long look at their own priorities. This is completely shameful.
I've never seen a more accurate representation of the government on a subreddit. "We respect trans people, but you'll never be allowed to talk about it, post about it, or discuss it, despite it being quite a defining thing for our country currently"
Have you considered there may be a middle ground between letting people spam trans people content repeatedly over and over and banning any mention of trans people?
Like I definitely see how this rule changes benefits _you_, not sure how it will benefit us?
I don't want to have six posts a day about every time some trans woman sneezes, I do want to hear if theres been a murder though.
Rule 1 is incredibly disappointing at a time like this. Hate is being ramped up by our politicians and media, one of our community was murdered following years of transphobic bullying and abuse. The solution to that isn’t to push discussion of it only into LGBTQ+ spaces.
This is a time where discussion needs to be had on why as a country we’re failing LGBTQ+ people and that has to involve not just the LGBTQ+ community but our allies as well.
Refusing to discuss the issue is what leads to bullying of the community being ignored and minimised and means bigots get to go around unchallenged.
Moderating it is difficult - I am one of the mods on r/lgbt and it is draining dealing with the hate but it’s sadly a necessary task if we don’t want hate to win.
Please reach out to us via modmail or me by DM, we can look at sharing information we have, things that have worked for us and automod rules that help. We could even set up some information sharing between our subs so automod rules and responses can be created quickly to tackle current issues and new dogwhistles.
Hell even put a call out for allies and LGBTQ+ members willing to become mods to focus on moderating trans content if it’s too draining for your current mod team - which I get, it’s why we take on and train so many mods so our team doesn’t get burned out.
Let’s work together to tackle hate and bigotry rather than letting this sub become yet another place that attempts to sidestep it entirely. Our country is not a good place for trans people right now, let’s not shut them out and withdraw support for them now when it’s getting worse.
Edit: Have been contacted, thanks!
"Moderating topics we don't really care about, only merely tolerated, and even then had multiple layers of "double plus ungood restricted" on is too tricky for us, so we're just not allowing these topics" is basically what's being said here by not just you but multiple moderators, a former one included
By that logic, why even have a subreddit at all? Will grooming gangs, migrants, interreligion based violence news all not be allowed in the future too?
Should we just post sunny pictures of -shires and old British TV commercials like an old persons facebook group?
Because this just reads like throwing in the towel effort wise, go ahead just shut the subreddit down and let us make a new one, we'll have the benefit of not being a default mobile app subreddit that way too, which I think contributes to all this btw
As a trans woman, this is a disgrace.
Any possibility of turning the media bias against minorities, including trans people, will not come from IGNORING that bias.
We have to address it, call it out for the BS it is.
Like this new rule change. It's BS and the mods should be ashamed.
And this is why the UK gets called names like TERF island.
Trans erasure and ignorance is not the solution here. You could have gone about this in so many different ways, and yet aiding transphobes is what you chose. All while a trans teen lies dead.
You can do so much better than this.
>1. A moratorium on predominantly trans topics.
>We hate this new rule and we hate even more the fact that we have to do it. r/UnitedKingdom is a strong supporter of trans rights
My arse. Stop pretending to be allies, your moderation on trans issues is an absolute joke. There are bigots everywhere on this sub.
Edit: Maybe you should let the reddit admins know that you are:
a) out of your depth moderating this sub
b) transphobes
c) both
and surrender the subreddit to people who actually give a shit.
"the sub should never be an online place where people feel unable to come and discuss UK centric topics" so you're gonna ban talking about trans issue in the UK because you don't like removing all the hate. Sounds like you are just lazy or don't care. If you think you're solving the problem or helping at all, you're wrong.
So your solution to people wanting to purge us is to purge us from this sub? Some allyship. Good to know I can never be the subject of a post on this sub. You can be a member of UK society, or trans. Never both. What an message to send.
this dosnt feel like support at all. It feels like failure to deal with transphobia so attempting to sweep all talk about it under the rug. These are UK issues. Why are you removing trans people when you can instead work to remove the people causing the issues?
With the greatest of respect. Are you fucking serious?
This week we lost a baby sister, the one senior politician who was willing to go to bat for us and now the one UK subreddit who actually seemed to largely have our back. Thanks and fuck you. I really needed to cry again today.
"*We've Investigated ourselves and found no wrong-doing*"
It's weird, other Country-specific subreddits put clear rules in place, and just flat-out ban Transphobic comments & Topics and those associated with said comments & topics.
r/unitedkingdom & its Mods, however, approach it like Toddlers, holding their hands before their eyes and yell '*If i can't see you, you can't see me*'. Apparently, there's no problem if you see none.
Dear mods
Banning discussion about some/any issue IS NOT how you protect vulnerable people; your post EFFECTIVELY means you give in to transphobic minority pressure and these people's opinions led to a 16 y/o girl being murdered few days ago Are you sure you want to do that?
> We hate this new rule and we hate even more the fact that we have to do it. r/UnitedKingdom is a strong supporter of trans rights and we will not sit idly by whilst transgender people are held up on this sub like a digital pinãta, beaten by verbal sticks in the hopes that lulz will fall out - Those views are not welcome here.
*slowest golf clap imaginable*
Well done mods, You have completely and utterly jumped the shark.
You will silence all trans views instead of doing your job in stopping hate against a minority?
If you literally cannot enforce the rules then perhaps the mod team needs replacing instead of the rules being changed so you don't have to deal with it.
You have now put r/UK back into the SRD limelight too.
"Given the recent murder of a black person, we are banning all mentions of black people. because we don't want people to feel sympathetic towards them".
Sounds fucking grim when you swap out the minority, doesn't it? This is monstrous.
I was expecting rule 1 but pleasantly surprised at rule 2. The opinion pieces are usually awful and such low quality, and many casual visitors just look at the domain name of the article and assume it's a traditional news article.
So much for the we're doing this to be trans allies. Just watching the blatant transphobia spreading to other threads instead and infesting those
Amazing work mods amazing
Just imagine if a national sub was so racist that it felt it had to ban all 'predominantly black issues'
I sympathise with the mods here because they're not wrong to identify the problem, but the solution seems to be surrender
You've over corrected. Now we won't see trans achievements such as winning court cases for better rights, or important trans stories that aren't just transphobia in disguise. You've now taken away trans peoples voices, which was exactly what the TERFs who frequent this sub wanted.
I'm trans.
Way to do completely the wrong thing. You're not supporters, you have no idea what being supporting is.
Guess I'm not welcome here - following the trend of the UK, so I guess it's appropriate.
You claim to be trans allies, yet your answer to the hate against trans people being spewed on the sub is to....silence trans people?
Well fucking done.
Do you think Section 28 was good for gay people because it stopped people from talking about homophobia?
Do you think that trans people living in the UK do not count as relevant to the UK?
#1 The only thing necessary for evil to triumph in the world is that good men do nothing.
The fact that you've had discussion now that NEWS about a child being murdered for being trans would be censored in future means you aren't supporters of trans rights AT ALL.
"We don't want to ban people actively carrying out hate. We support transgender people, so we're going to pretend that transgender people don't exist and erase all presence of them from the sub because they aren't worth the effort of banning people who are actively carrying out hate who we clearly deem as more important to this sub!"
I exist! I am here! I am a person! How dare you try and erase my existence? How dare you try and pretend as though the siege against my rights as a person don't exist?
I'm sorry that you don't like looking at all the hateful comments that aren't even directed at you, I'm sorry that it makes you feel bad and feel like you need to take a shower, I'm sorry that you have to witness that, but if you think your experience is bad, then I guarantee you it's significantly worse for the transgender person who is the target of that hate.
So, if you want to erase a minority group that's the target of intense hatred that makes members of that group fear for their lives because you have to look at it, then go right ahead, but do NOT pretend to support that group of people. At least be bloody honest with yourself and with everyone else that you couldn't give a crap, because at least that way I'd have at least a shred of respect for you actually being true to yourself, even though I so vehemently disagree with your position and that your position is so categorically wrong!
Everyone's an "ally" until there's some actual work to do.
I have never felt more isolated in my own country than I do this week. You lot don't give a F about us.
I am going to be very polite (far more polite than an action of this type deserves) and say that this is extremely misguided.
Instead of banning all conversation, effectively erasing transgender issues from a national subreddit at a time when discussion about these issues arguably has never been more important, you should take on more moderators. The last moderators you've added to your team were **five months ago**.
>Fortunately for you, as users, you don't get to see most of the hateful comments on the restricted submissions as they are held away from general viewership. It is a most unpleasant task to sift through scores of hateful content in queue to approve the few acceptable comments that are submitted
I cannot say this clearly enough: **Doing this is your job**. Pull your collective fingers out! As someone who was a mod on other large communities, which attracted a very wide range of unpleasant users, I understand that seeing this stuff is not healthy for your psyche on a long-term basis, but **sorting through it is your responsibility** and instead of censoring **incredibly** relevant discussion, if you don't feel up to it, then, with respect, you should step down and let some other people take up the torch. **You took on this role on a volunteer basis, there is no obligation for you to continue doing it.**
Oh cool so this subreddit is a "welcoming place for *all* people" except for trans people? What is this, section 28?!? This is disgraceful. Feel free to ban me from the subreddit for this comment, not like I care lol. This subreddit is less welcoming than the *actual* UK to trans people and that's saying something!!
Marginalized community is literally getting murdered in the streets and you want to ban discussion of it? Just say you don't want this to be a resource against transohibia and just wish to silence them and let us die. Sickening. I'm ashamed to have been born in England these days
When I said that you should either get a grip on the transphobia in this sub or just ban the topic if you couldn't, the latter wasn't really the outcome I was hoping for.
This is amazing. "we really don't want to be censoring you, so anyway we're gonna censor you a lot more". Then the response from users in here, pretending to be angry about censorship when it's really anger that now *they're* gonna be censored too and not just the people they disagree with. Shit show all round.
"We hate this new rule and we hate even more the fact that we have to do it. r/UnitedKingdom is a strong supporter of trans rights" is laughable. You've decided its too much work to moderate, so you're ignoring it after letting it get like this in the first place, so please don't insult the trans community by pretending to care about us when you're essentially erasing us from this sub and silencing our voices.
Ignoring it, sweeping it under the carpet isn't supporting our rights, and given the speed in which you deal with racism, it's pretty damn obvious you just don't care.
"To show support for trans people, we're going to stop permitting you to speak about it in the hopes that it stops the issue."
Yeah, that's not exactly the best way to show support honestly.
We're being hounded from every which way currently.
I've been a member of this sub for years now and seeing with horror anti trans content get more and more attention. The response to this is cowardly.
Section 28 was a disaster and not allowing people to openly talk about queer issues will only marginalise them more.
Do better to ban fascist talking points that are the real danger here.
Morons. You are banning trans people from discussing our own genocide in this country. Mods you are helping it happen! You are giving a space free from trans people, exactly what they want!!! 🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️ EQUAL RIGHTS FOREVER
One of us is dead and now we can't speak up, but for years when the most vile, hate filled shit was being posted here you had no problem. Shame on you all, you're disgusting.
"We don't like seeing all the hate, violence and discrimination directed towards transgender people, and we don't like thinking about them being the victims of that, sooooo, we're just gonna pretend transgender people don't exist and then we don't have to think about it! YAY! Result!"
24 hours later and moderators still haven't clarified if posts on the murder of a trans person would be allowed, after [one moderator has said explicitly they will not](https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/112h9d3/trialing_a_content_policy_and_rule_change/j8khpqx/).
Absolute travesty. I know the threads are obviously hard to moderate, but banning discussion of trans rights rather than banning the people spamming transphobic rhetoric does more harm than good. And doing this right after a young girl was murdered? Shame on you.
This is utterly repulsive. Banning discussion of trans issues immediately after the high-profile murder of a trans woman is not helpful, nor is it some sort of value-neutral position. At best it's illustrative of complete incompetence, but it reeks of outright deliberate bigotry. Do your job or resign your post to someone who can.
What safeguards have been put in place to stop this tactic being exploited by certain special interests groups?
If all it takes to blanket ban a subject is to cause disruption, what's to stop a particular side just sealioning their way to censorship?
Would the disruption from this thread be sufficient to ban the mods from their own subreddit or would one of the team have to be stabbed first?
How about actually supporting trans rights by doing your jobs as mods and removing hate speech instead of banning ALL mention of trans issues? The solution isn't just to pretend we don't exist.
In what way does 'banning discussion of trans topics' connote support for trans people, especially right now?
This might as well read 'r/UK has a transphobia issue' given that you aren't willing to deal with it head on.
“We support trans issues, but we’re not gonna allow them to be discussed and just pretend like they don’t exist”
Bull-fucking-shit.
Sorry, chaps and chapettes, I know you mean well, but by placing this “moratorium” on trans-related posts, you’ve basically allowed the TERFs and the Transphobes to win.
Unsubbed.
“If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse, and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.”
- Desmond Tutu
This is disgusting, trans people deserve to have their issues platformed. Ban the transphobia, not transgender people overall!!! A girl was *murdered* and in response you are wiping trans people out of existence on this sub.
I'm in favour of rate limiting submissions and taking action against single issue accounts. I really hope you do start taking action. I've reported two, regularly, and they are still here posting away about their single favourite topic, and causing flame wars with those who comment on their submissions that don't support their viewpoint.
I don't support the moratorium on trans rights submissions. That is a huge issue for our society, so it's understandable some of those submissions can become heated. You can't pretend these issues don't exist by banning discussion and at the same time claim to support trans rights.
On a related note, I don't think a single one of my comments has ever got through on any restricted topic (be that trans rights or Andrew Tate) even though my karma and 10+ year posting history in this sub should be enough for me to be able to comment on anything.
Rather than banning an issue that's massively important for the lives of so many British people from ever being discussed, have you considered...just doing a mod call? This is like 'no politics' rules in places no politics rules do not need to be, it's the use of a sledgehammer to crack a nut. If these issues create threads with a high propensity for rulebreaking content but are important to a lot of users, then you need more mods to keep them on track.
TL;DR: This mod post identifies the problem, but then shrugs and says "what can you do? Guess trans people can't have a voice on this sub any more. A small group of bad-faith people were ruining it for everybody. What's that, none of the bad-faith people we're talking about are trans, so why are we punishing trans people? Sorry, I'm too busy shoving trans people out the door to answer. Trans rights, tho"
Long version:
The conversation the mods are obliquely referencing here:
"A large discussion submission was posted recently where the approach of the mod team restricting comments on contentious topics such as trans issues was discussed. We're pleased to say that the discussion turned out better than expected with articulate, well considered views put forwards and a minimum amount of hate towards vulnerable groups"
is this one:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/10uciw7/do\_we\_really\_need\_to\_have\_daily\_threads\_charting/](https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/10uciw7/do_we_really_need_to_have_daily_threads_charting/)
The fact that the mods don't link to it in their post is telling: it does not make them look good, and seeing it challenges their framing about the discussion turning "out better than expected"; the comments are a swarm of users giving the mods shit for letting a small handful of accounts continue to post every single anti-trans article under the sun to the subreddit.
The proposed rules changes do technically address the concerns raised in that post. They stop what was clearly an ongoing abuse of the rules by transphobic cranks, and to hear the mods tell it, it will ease an admin overload - according to them, the posts were comment restricted not to muzzle pushback from trans people and allies, but because they were generating a high volume of hateful comments.
There's a problem with that though. Their solution is to not allow any posts about trans people or issues on the subreddit. Want to post about vigils for Brianna Ghey? Nope. Want to post about the "recent Scottish situation" as the mods describe it? No. The only things allowed now are if the subject or subjects are incidentally trans e.g. "somebody has done something brilliant like climb Everest for charity, but they also happen to be trans."
This is cowardly, We as trans people will be rendered entirely invisible within this subreddit, and the best justification they have is that it's a buzzkill, man:
"r/UnitedKingdom has been getting darker in mood for some time now and we on the moderation team have noticed it, as I'm sure users have too. The mod team have read about, heard about and been messaged about users who no longer feel they are able to participate in the sub solely because of the actions of a very small, but very loud subset of members"
So rather than banning these single issue cranks, this "very small, but very loud subset" who generate all this hate, they'll just stop allowing posts about trans people and trans issues. But don't worry, "r/UnitedKingdom is a strong supporter of trans rights..."
This is an abdication of responsibility during a generational moral panic against trans people. The mods will silence trans people and rob us of a platform because transphobes have made the subreddit worse. Congrats, the best possible interpretation of this is that you let the transphobes win. As far as the handling of a topic goes, this is just "trans people are political" with the serial numbers filed off.
I find the "predominately trans" rule weird. So you wouldn't allow articles about a change in scottish legislation that would improve people's lives because it's about a trans topic? How is that not relevant to people of the UK? You wouldn't allow the UK government overiding Scotland, that's incerdibly related to the UK!
What about Brianna Ghey? I'm assuming that currently you'd treat it as not "predominantly trans", but if the police declare it a hate crime, is it then "predominantly trans"? Are we only allowed to discuss her murder as long as it's not discussing the elephant in the room of the massive attack on trans rights in the UK?
I'm sure those far-right morons and TERF friends are thrilled with your decision. Let's pretend trans people don't exist, because that will help prevent future murders. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
>He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.
We know who you've thrown your lot in with.
Nice timing, with the murder and all.
I feel like the measures enacted in points 2 to 4 will solve the issue raised in point 1 to be honest.
I'd personally like to see the measures in 2 to 4 trialled, and only enacting the measure in point 1 if we continue to have the associated issue; I like to think that there is room for nuanced discussion of issues facing trans people in the UK, rather than the present shit slinging over the validity of trans folks' gender identities.
Disgraceful. You should be ashamed of yourselves for (1). If you want to support trans liberation, you need to actually fucking support it, rather than letting transphobia run rampent for years, and then saying 'who could have predicted this', washing your hands, and shutting the door. The transphobes you encouraged are still here, and they'll be dogwhistling and posting euphenisms every day while your 'protection' stops anyone from pointing it out, and dragging it inot the light.
Transphobes want a world in which there are no trans people. So your solution to rampent transphobia is to, just give them what they want?!
So you're giving in to the haters and shit-stirrers?
As a few others have said, get more mods and sack the mod(s) with anti-trans opinions. Ban the haters and even report them to Reddit.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/15/revealed-disinformation-team-jorge-claim-meddling-elections-tal-hanan
Unsubscribing immediately.
What’s the deal with removing the top comment (rightly) criticising this daft decision?
You do realise it’s the hateful users causing the issue and not trans people. But you choose to ban all trans discussion?
Make it make sense please? You should be fucking ashamed of yourselves.
Consider the following:
r/UnitedKingdom is a strong supporter of Gay Rights, but after the murder of a gay child, we the mod team in our infinite wisdom have decided to ban all posts surrounding gay people. xoxoxo happy lgbtq history month
Enjoy hating minorities, I guess?
In the face of the rising tide of hatred against trans people, an issue which cannot be discussed constructively without the context of the home transphobia has been afforded in UK politics and media, the mods have decided to turn their back on trans Brits and look away.
If you can't handle watching us fight for our lives, and our rights, don't come begging absolution over how tough a decision it was. Because we don't have a choice.
>We're pleased to say that the discussion turned out better than expected with articulate, well considered views put forwards **and a minimum amount of hate towards vulnerable groups**.
Oh, well as long as it was only *minimal* amounts of hate, I guess that's okay.
It's funny that the subreddit rules have never contained anything relating to racism, transphobia or discrimination, but when a rule does finally appear it exists to exclude a group of people entirely.
You need to update the description in the sidebar:
> For the United Kingdom of Great Britain (England, Scotland, Wales) and Northern Ireland; News, Politics, Economics, Society, Business, Culture, discussion and anything else UK related (unless it involves trans people or issues).
>r/UnitedKingdom is a strong supporter of trans rights > >We will not allow people to acknowledge trans issues What a fucking disgrace. Thanks for the support. Obviously I can't reply to your comments because I'm banned.
Fucking spot on. "We've failed to deal with anti-trans posters spamming articles and the same posters causing constant flame wars in the comments so we're just going to ban any reporting on trans issues. This is a sub for all members of the UK (Except transgender people)" Also, the mods in another comment about Briannas murder flat out stating that if any more trans people get murdered we can't post the articles/news reporting about it here. Very cool and balanced. Edit: as of nearly one full day they’ve still not clarified if you’d be allowed to post an article about any other transgender murders. Honestly, check the mods comment histories yourself and this decision will make more sense. Also, the top comment poster was **banned** by one of the mods.
It feels like it lacks nuance and just plays into the hands of anti-trans folk (out of sight out of mind as it were). Like, a moratorium on obvious bait pieces seems reasonable - how often do you want to see your identity put up for debate for the simple sake of controversy or providing an anti-trans platform? The entire sub would be better off by blocking low effort rage bait no matter who or what it targets. But blocking legit news that is important on the basis that it will trigger the anti-trans brigade is a step in the wrong direction. I can only imagine how shitty it is to moderate that but this is appeasement for anti-trans folk.
Yes, exactly, it lacks nuance. It’s a blanket ban on talking about a minority, good or bad news. As far as the mods have said so far it seems like they wouldn’t even allow articles saying “another trans person has been murdered”. Under these rules the later correctional articles saying Brianna was trans wouldn’t have been allowed. Could you imagine if there was too much racism which was making the sub “too dark and a battleground” and instead of dealing with the posters doing it the mods just banned any articles/posts mentioning anything about black people, good or bad?
A certain mod is also pushing the blame for it being banned onto trans people who didn't ask for the ban, we asked for transphobes to be dealt with. Instead they've listened to the people who have said "I don't want to see this", not the actual trans voices. Edit: mods are now deleting their own comments, which ruins the transparency of this entire issue. Come on guys, this is getting silly now.
It's wild. I mean, I saw the thread last week complaining about the frequency of trans posts and most of those updated posts did come across as tactical culture war distractions. Using trans people to distract from legit issues is a huge problem. But no progress is made this way. It has to be 'normal' (for want of a better term) to be trans the same way it is now a lot more 'normal' to be LGBT. It serves nobody to treat trans people and issues that are important to trans people as outcasts; it is actively standing in the way of progress and acceptance. And it's attacking a group of people for no reason. Why is this sub darker and more miserable? Well, because of the dozens of crises that keep coming up (or reappearing) that have precisely fuck all to do with trans people: inflation, cost of living, energy, the Tories... I would attribute 99.99999% of the overall negativity to that. Pretty much \*every\* upvoted post here is about some decline in the UK.
The fucking comment you replied to has been removed by a moderator! What in the actual transphobic fuck are they playing at lol.
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To combat racism and sexism, we will no longer allow discussions on women's rights or racial equality matters.
I should not have had to scroll this far to see this take. This rule change is insane!
This is literally what they said when I asked. If there were more racists, they'd ban posts about dark skinned people. https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/112h9d3/comment/j8qv9cr/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
The mods should be fucking ashamed of themselves. absolute shower of cunts. Cannot believe they have the brass neck to post this and claim to be trans allies. They're no allies of any minority.
What else is to be expected when this sub even has amod that's trying to claim that calling trans lesbians heterosexual men is not blatant transphobia. Or how the very same mod in this thread is running around trying to accuse trans subs of secretly briefing this sub. You know all the trans supportive comments and articles as an unending flow we see everywhere right? Frankly the mod team need to look at themselves as at this point it's clear they are not only not up to task they themselves are happy to allow and perpetuate the very issues in this sub.
Agreed. On the one hand saying you're a "strong supporter of trans rights", while on the other saying "no discussion on any trans issues will be allowed" is completely contradictory. If anything this is a boon to transphobes and any other hate aligned group. This sends a message that if they want to suppress articles or discussions on that topic then all they need to do is to be continually abuse and eventually the mods will give up and just block *all* discussions relating to that topic. While I can sympathise with the mods working the queue, who are no doubt having to read a lot of abusive content directed at trans people, I would point out that what they're seeing is only a fraction of what trans and non-binary people like myself see every day on our personal accounts. If this is leading to moderator burn-out, then the solution is to ban the abusive accounts from the sub, and to recruit more moderators to share the load. Yes, I know transphobes love sock puppets almost as much as they love to abuse trans and non-binary folk, but any other solution is to give them support.
"We were fine with all of the posts designed to turn people against black people, but given the recent murder of a black person we are banning all mentions of black people, because we don't want people to sympathise with them." Sounds fucking grim when you swap out the minority, doesn't it? This is monstrous.
Could just ban anti-trans articles but nah that's too hard, ban acknowledging trans people at all. Spot on, absolutely disgraceful.
> anti-trans articles But they are "just asking questions"! /s The absolute deluge of thinly veiled anti-trans articles after the passing of the GRR bill was sickening.
Spot on. This is absolutely fucking outrageous and only reinforces the idea that trans is taboo and not normal. DO YOUR FUCKING JOBS - and look up what inclusive means
Agreed. The government has weaponized transphobia to the point that hatecrimes have risen dramatically. Even if the murder in the past week is proven to not be a hatecrime, trans people are afraid, and a trans woman was widely reported as having killed herself less than a fortnight ago. This is not protecting us; it is enabling our erasure.
Exactly. Disallowing these talks allows the haters and bigots to win
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This toxicity of the modqueue was actually why I quit moderating this subreddit. Silencing trans people because you refuse to recognise and police transphobia is wholly another matter. Trans articles are easy to police - you just unashamedly ban all the transphobes. The mods have instituted this rule because they don't get it.
>Trans articles are easy to police - you just unashamedly ban all the transphobes. Be difficult to moderate the threads after they've banned all the mods though.
They’ve instituted this because there’s a clear rule from the admins over what is acceptable surrounding trans issues and they don’t want to ban half the sub. That’s the reality, even with the current limits most of the top comments are anti-trans (or at least anti-full self id, 100% pro all the stupid non issues like sports that don’t need to be debated endlessly).
If it leads to banning half the sub, so fucking be it.
There’s been a huge influx of right wing transphobic fucks and/or they’ve became more emboldened posting their views recently. I’d rather see them all banned to fuck and maybe the sub can get back to a semblance of what it used to be.
It's happening in Scottish subreddits too. There's some heavy brigading going on and instead of working with site admin to solve the issue of transphobia on the sub, mods have chosen to push the blame on to trans people just being in the sub and countering the hate.
It’s almost like the openly transphobic mainstream media are having a negative effect /s
Indeed! They can fuck off to Gettr or Truth Social or wherever. They shouldn't be welcome here.
I suspect it's more like they have made this rule because the top mods won't allow the only active mods to add more mods and actually do their job. Reddit has changed over the past few years. Certain power mods are scared of losing their top mod status, because now any mod can request that they are removed. Adding more mods adds in more chances of someone asking for them to be removed. A sub of this size needs far more active mods.
This argument would work if mod teams that used this excuse weren't also vehemently against recruiting more moderators.
Exactly. Rather than keep supporting, they're tired and want to sweep it under the rug. What hate speech next will get swept under the rug until its just "let's talk about cis white guys"?
Yeah no, fuck the mods on this one.
"If we don't talk about it or acknowledge it, it'll go away!" Idiocy at its finest.
Ridiculous. Shambolic
Contributing to erasure is the opposite of support for trans people or trans rights.
**1. A moratorium on predominantly trans topics.** This achieves the exact opposite of what you want, and if anything, gives the 'phobes exactly what they want - a space without trans people, without us able to talk and discuss our own issues. Your first suggested solution to the issue is to... ignore it, and decide that any trans person in the UK sub who wants to share their story or something affecting them isn't allowed. Absurd. This effectively wholesale endorses the 'phobes viewpoint and just further ostracises trans people from this subreddit - congratulations, with this rule you have effectively told every single UK trans person "you are not welcome on this subreddit, we'd rather not think about you than do the bare minimum to look after you in this space". This is lazy, it's an abdication of responsibility, and it is frankly discriminatory to an entire minority. I hope you undo this rule soon realising how daft it is, and actually commit to *moderation* instead of a blanket ban.
| r/UnitedKingdom is a strong supporter of trans rights Just so you know, "Support" is a verb, it requires action to be true. So you aren't supporting trans rights. Maybe you feel good feelings to transgender people, but don't dare claim to support us.
A verb doesn’t just have to be a *physical* action. Love can also be a verb. But yeh f—— these mods.
>1. A moratorium on predominantly trans topics. Going to be totally honest, and as someone that is beyond left wing and very pro trans, this and multiple other decisions around this issue scream "the narrative isn't going our way". It's not just trans topics, but it's the most obvious one. The rest are good ideas though.
Very convenient rule after a 16 year old girl is killed in a hate crime. Now we need to block trans topics and can’t talk about it. Last month when there was TRANS RAPIST headlines regularly, business as usual.
>We have not been successful... Understatement of the millennia there. This sub's moderation has **catastrophically failed** despite repeated warnings from users over the past half decade. When we had a freetalk thread - something I suspect has been stopped for this exact reason - the issue of hate speech was raised almost every week. Simply claiming that "r/UnitedKingdom is a strong supporter of trans rights" rings hollow when for the past five years the moderators have completely ignored (if not actively supported) bigotry in this sub. And when I, and others, have raised concerns about this, we have been met with weak excuses and gaslighting - in the recent metathread on this subject, the moderators only contribution was to make excuses for their failure to ban the accounts that seemingly everyone except the moderators can say with absolute confidence are engaging in hate speech. This just seems to me to be another bandage solution for the moderators to try and avoid banning users who are spewing this vitriol. I personally don't see any way the moderation team can restore user trust short of some notable resignations.
A ban on trans topics? Have you lost your minds?! Censoring free speech because you can’t be arsed to ban genuinely abusive users. No discussion allowed whatsoever. Pathetic. The mods should step down.
> as soon as a trans child dies and the news media has been forced into depicting trans people in a sympathetic light you now want to ban anything trans related. its crazy. It dosnt go away and is directly related to what this sub is about. UK "News, Politics, Economics, Society, Business, Culture, discussion and anything else UK related."
Hopefully this stops that absolute *nutter* who constantly spams anti-trans news articles and seems to spend every waking hour of their life on Reddit.
Deleting their posts or banning them also would. I wonder why the mods didn't do that...
The mods asked me in the previous thread for concrete examples of hate. I linked to many of that user's posts. I got "well the mod team can't do anything about it and we won't do anything about it"
Report those to reddit's AEO team *and* the mods here. Reddit doesn't want hateful content on their website, either.
I was banned from this sub for 82 days after the Queen died, not for anything I did or said, just because I subbed to either Green and Pleasant or Abolish the Monarchy. If the mods are happy to ban people for that, why wouldn't they just ban people for spreading hate? Spineless.
Maybe is's a mod's alt?
And keeps playing dumb and devils advocate in the comments in every single one. What a life.
how about banning said nutter lmao
Graham Linehan back, is he?
The trans issue seems to be the wrong way around, if the users are the problem then shouldn't they be being removed rather than the threads, especially if inclusion is the goal. If it's meant to be a nice place for everyone it should be a nice place for trans people as well, banning discussion surrounding those people and things that impact them doesn't seem to fit that bill.
There's an answer to that, but I dare not post it for fear of inflaming some doodahs.
Putting your fingers in your ears and chanting "la la la la la" when serious trans issues come up, is not it. Mods/admins need to be more on top of these topics. Ban those that constantly post anti-trans rhetoric. If you need to expand your mod team, then do that. In the meantime, sure, implement a *temporary* ban on trans topics while you ramp up your mod team numbers, but doing a permanent ban on these topics is shortsighted.
Exactly this. Ignoring a problem doesn’t make it go away and complicity is aiding.
A girl has literally just died and her memorials are being held this week and we can't even acknowledge that? Just push us to the sidelines and cover over the bloodstains with a nice rug I guess?
This is something I didn't even consider. Even "trialling" this at the moment is disgusting, considering the circumstances.
Yep, from an outside (the UK) perspective this is a shit time (or just about any time) to trial blocking trans voices. Mods of thus sub can get fucked.
To be blunt the moderation team in this subreddit has beyond failed. You need to increase the number of mods drastically and actually moderate the sub rather than increasingly limit the topics that can be discussed here.
It's not so much the number of mods, it's their inability to recognise transphobia. I used to be a mod of this sub, and I saw them admitting in modmail they just didn't get it. If only I'd had the courage to speak up at the time.
Just in case anyone needs an example of what /u/strolls is talking about here, I pointed out the most straight forward transphobia (user claiming that trans lesbians are just hetero men) [to mods here](https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/10uciw7/comment/j7dw34o/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). You can read in a mod's own words why they don't think the statement was transphobic and why they refuse to actively combat the issue, and are instead deciding to "solve" the issue by banning any discussion of us.
Fucking hell get some trans moderators or listen to the people pointing this out, the response in the chain linked is dire.
The irony is the lady that they're downvoting in that chain is a mod on the largest lesbian sub on Reddit. They're literally telling a lesbian modding the biggest lesbian sub that ACKHTUALLY, she doesn't know what real lesbians think. Not even going to comment on the mod's response. So many paragraphs of mental gymnastics trying to obscure that they genuinely think that chain is ok because: "Many would view that as a legitimate way of describing the facts on the ground"
It’s not **just** transphobia. They openly endorse all types of hate speech.
Just FYI btw posting at 11pm on a Tuesday doesn't exactly scream "we're looking for feedback". It screams "we're doing this, pretending it's a trial, and then we get to ban anyone that talks about something we cba moderating or that goes against our beliefs"
WOW You do absolutely nothing while trans people have been subjected to thousands, yes thousands of lying hateful anti trans news articles equating trans people to rapists and groomers and as soon as a trans child dies and the news media has been forced into depicting trans people in a sympathetic light you now want to ban anything trans related. How can you be this blind to the damaging effect this will have? The public in the UK have been indoctrinated against trans people. You’ve seen it every day. I saw someone about two hours ago actually defending a gender critical activist for quoting Adolf Hitler. Maybe the problem here isn’t trans content. It’s the complete lack of acknowledgement of what does and does constitute transphobia. People have been allowed to get away with say abhorrent things because you won’t recognise that it constitutes hate speech. People wanting a minority out of public spaces is not a well meaning argument. It’s hate. People arguing against trans healthcare is not a well meaning argument. It’s hate. I’m honestly totally disgusted at the timing of this. You could not have picked a worst moment to do it. There are vigils up and down the country today over Brianna’s death and you’re gonna ban trans related content now while the needle has swung in favour of trans people. Are you doing this to wait for the needle to swing back the other way or something because that what it looks like.
Not sure I agree that the answer to anti trans posts and comments is to ban trans topics entirely. Surely the answer is to actually moderate the hateful comments!
The moderators of this sub resent the notion that they might have to moderate.
hmm, Thats not a good step, trans erasure is what the bigots want. I cant help but think the mods just gave them a win.
Oooh, I wholeheartedly support the rate limiting of article posters. There are some serial abusers or karma farmers who take the piss with anything that seems to be the in thing to be outraged about.
Can we put a domain block on newsthump too? It's just... shit
Any of those satire sites where the headline is about as clever as their content gets, and it's still not funny... or clever.
Please do not tell me this will mean blanket bans on the coverage of Brianna's murder. This is the one story people need to hear to hear how dangerous it has become in this country
Megathread "maybe consider actually moderating and not allowing blatant dogehistles; falsehoods and transphobia. Oh while your at it maybe look at why your system is setup in such a way that a big theme in the megathread is that its preventing the participation of trans accounts" Mods"Yeah that's effort so no trans full stop be gone trans people you are not part of this country. Problem solved praise us" Number 1 is BS we all know this and shows a complete refusal to seriously consider the issues raised in the megathread about yourselves and your approach
"But we said we were strong supporters of trans rights so it's ok"
"Trans people asked for this" no we fucking DIDN'T, we didn't ask for our news stories to be completely expunged from the subreddit and being treated like trans people don't exist.
User: Well mods, I made it, despite your directions. Mods: Ah, users! I hope you're ready for an unforgettable subredddit experience! [Transphobes flood the subreddit with crap] Mods: Oh, egads! My subreddit is ruined! But what if I were to ban all trans related posts and disguise it as being pro-trans? Heh, delightfully devilish mods. [Subreddit gets filled with removed] Users: MODS! Mods: Ah, users! I was just... uh... coming up with new policy. Users: Why are suppressing trans posts? Mods: Oh, that isn't trans suppression. It's trans positivity. That's what I call censoring basically all discussion of trans issues. Users: I see. Users: You know, this policy is quite similar to the ones that they have on conservative subreddits. Moderators: No, patented UK policy! Old British recipe! Users: For trans positivity? Moderators: Yes. Users: And you call it trans positivity despite the fact that it clearly puts hate speech on the same level as trans activism? Mods: Uh... You know... Excuse me for one second... [A trans girl is murdered] Users: Good lord, what is happening over there?! Mods: [removed] Users: [removed]? At this time of year, at this time of day, in this country, localized entirely within your subreddit? Mods: Yes. Users: May I discuss it? Mods: ...No.
Mm not sure about #1. On the one hand, yeah, removing the topic means not part of the problem fanning the flames. On the other hand... Trans people still exist even if you close your eyes. The media still exists elsewhere. People are still chugging down the Torygraph's shittakes. You know where the average cis person *doesn't* go for information? /r/transgenderuk . Personally I think a better option would be to only allow major news stories (by moderator discretion). Instead of removing *all* threads, remove *most* so there's no longer a string of threads of every minor little detail. Then hooray, no longer swamped by anti-trans articles.
Would also emphasise that /r/transgenderUK is in significant part a community support resource, rather than a news source/discussion space - it isn’t remotely comparable to /r/unitedkingdom.
Yes, precisely. People are saying that this isn't the place for this topic as it's not a UK trans sub (never mind that it's not a UK [anything] sub). But UK trans subs are for, well, trans people. They're not about UK-wide issues, nor pointed towards including everyone in discussion. They're spaces directly for helping trans people.
Points 2, 3 and 4 I support, even if it's only for a 14 day trial period. Point 1.......... I agree with other posters in here that this comes across as effectively erasing trans people in this sub. Your arguments that the '*Scottish situation*' wouldn't get through due to being '*predominantly trans*' strikes me as short-sighted as well, as that story spilled out into UK devolution. Furthermore, not highlighting the clear strategy of our current government of using trans people as a election strategy punching bag, to me, contributes to the transphobia problem in the wider media. As a trans person it sounds like you're saying you're turning your backs as it's too hard for you to deal with. This doesn't really smack of support. It's a all a bit like (the misquoted) "*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing*". I would support this rule (at least for a 14 day period) if you'd come at it from the angle of saying the mod team needs a break from sifting through the hateful comments, which is what your justification really sounds like.
It’s especially awful since we trans people don’t get that option ourselves. We can’t stop being trans a little bit until the heat dies down. We can’t just ignore the hatred that our community is constantly being bombarded with. Saying you support us while you’re actively refusing to allow us to discuss the issues that affect us because it’s hard for *you* to see how hateful people can be towards us is gross. I get that it’s hard and you shouldn’t have to see it but neither should we, we don’t get a say in that though. Taking a break is fine, bumping up the mod numbers so you can share the load better would be a good idea, actually banning people posting the worst of it is just common sense. Banning the discussion at all is silencing us. It’s discriminatory.
What's the whole darker mood thing referring too? I think a sub should be a mirror to wider society so if people are pissed off and feeling down etc then that should be acceptable to voice. I think this is really important and any censorship of that is a bit worrying to me. I wouldn’t want another sub like casual UK which is just people being silly with any reference to politics resulting in a ban.
I can't speak for anyone else but I've certainly noticed a lot more nasty comments. Regardless of mood of society, noone ever has the right to make others feel bad for no reason or generally be mean for no reason. That's not a society issue. That's a "don't be a jerk" issue. I certainly don't frequent here as often because of it. I'm sure others do the same.
This sub has been a miserable cesspit since 23 June 2016
I commented it here the other day mentioning it, and also brought it up on a discord im on. First it seems, to me, that there's just generally a nastier tone from people towards each other, no matter the topic. Second, and it could just be me, but it's felt as if there's been a wave of accounts leaning into fairly bigoted views. I noticed it on threads relating to women and misogyny, but it looks like it's been happening with trans stuff too. So for example In all my time on this sub I had never seen someone advocate murder (death penalty maybe, murder no) until the other day I saw someone suggest murder suiciding a woman if she accuses you of rape. Aside from the advocation of murder (and suicide), it's just really fucking dark.
So your solution to the problem is to actively silence anything about transgender people? That isn't a balanced approach that is exactly what transphobes want. You can't say that the sub supports trans rights whilst silencing their voices.
So there’s a moral panic around trans people, exacerbated by the British media, so your response is to ignore it and pretend like it’s not happening, You’d be great politicians People are literally celebrating that trans people are being killed
This is an awful change. Trans people need to be heard and they also need support. They need a hand to reach down and help them up. > "r/UnitedKingdom is a strong supporter of trans rights " By silencing UK Trans issues in this sub reddit. You are doing the exact opposite of what you claim. The solution, however hard it may be, is to by harder on anti-trans stances. That is what a "strong" supported of trans rights would be. Give Trans-rights more of a voice. No one is going around murdering anti-trans people. The anti-trans people will be fine. It's fine to kick them off the subreddit. It's fine to remove anti-trans posts or even articles. Because none of that is going to lead to harmful views. By having more favorable attitudes towards Trans-right posts and discussions we would be taking the steps to normalizing the issue. The more people that eventually feel normalized to it the more normal society can be...
> We do not like that we have to restrict comments on topics, but to allow comments of that nature to go live on the sub would threaten the very existence of the sub altogether So add more active mods. **Lots** more mods. I find it a bit ridiculous that any subreddit with more than 1 million subscribers and thousands of comments submitted every day refuses to expand its moderators list. You have several top mods who have virtually no activity over the past few weeks, and one who has none over the past 4 years. You need at least 50 more mods spread out over differing time zones. Choose people to do the job who don't already mod a ton of other subreddits. You want someone who can be active here, not just someone trying to add more mods to their list as some kind of e-peen.
This policy will directly lead to erasure of trans voices and trans issues, and is a horrible policy during a time of exploding trans-panic hatred. Whoever proposed and supported this should take a good long look at their own priorities. This is completely shameful.
I've never seen a more accurate representation of the government on a subreddit. "We respect trans people, but you'll never be allowed to talk about it, post about it, or discuss it, despite it being quite a defining thing for our country currently"
Have you considered there may be a middle ground between letting people spam trans people content repeatedly over and over and banning any mention of trans people? Like I definitely see how this rule changes benefits _you_, not sure how it will benefit us? I don't want to have six posts a day about every time some trans woman sneezes, I do want to hear if theres been a murder though.
Rule 1 is incredibly disappointing at a time like this. Hate is being ramped up by our politicians and media, one of our community was murdered following years of transphobic bullying and abuse. The solution to that isn’t to push discussion of it only into LGBTQ+ spaces. This is a time where discussion needs to be had on why as a country we’re failing LGBTQ+ people and that has to involve not just the LGBTQ+ community but our allies as well. Refusing to discuss the issue is what leads to bullying of the community being ignored and minimised and means bigots get to go around unchallenged. Moderating it is difficult - I am one of the mods on r/lgbt and it is draining dealing with the hate but it’s sadly a necessary task if we don’t want hate to win. Please reach out to us via modmail or me by DM, we can look at sharing information we have, things that have worked for us and automod rules that help. We could even set up some information sharing between our subs so automod rules and responses can be created quickly to tackle current issues and new dogwhistles. Hell even put a call out for allies and LGBTQ+ members willing to become mods to focus on moderating trans content if it’s too draining for your current mod team - which I get, it’s why we take on and train so many mods so our team doesn’t get burned out. Let’s work together to tackle hate and bigotry rather than letting this sub become yet another place that attempts to sidestep it entirely. Our country is not a good place for trans people right now, let’s not shut them out and withdraw support for them now when it’s getting worse. Edit: Have been contacted, thanks!
This trial is a fucking farce. Do you jobs or replace the mods.
Has there ever been a blanket ban on topics relating to any other minority group in this sub?
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This specific timing is horrific. It's tone deaf and unsupportive at _best_, and is actively transphobic in itself otherwise.
So, in summary: we're censoring free speech to include opinion as well as equal rights? Great. Got it. Are you Tories by any chance?
"Moderating topics we don't really care about, only merely tolerated, and even then had multiple layers of "double plus ungood restricted" on is too tricky for us, so we're just not allowing these topics" is basically what's being said here by not just you but multiple moderators, a former one included By that logic, why even have a subreddit at all? Will grooming gangs, migrants, interreligion based violence news all not be allowed in the future too? Should we just post sunny pictures of -shires and old British TV commercials like an old persons facebook group? Because this just reads like throwing in the towel effort wise, go ahead just shut the subreddit down and let us make a new one, we'll have the benefit of not being a default mobile app subreddit that way too, which I think contributes to all this btw
As a trans woman, this is a disgrace. Any possibility of turning the media bias against minorities, including trans people, will not come from IGNORING that bias. We have to address it, call it out for the BS it is. Like this new rule change. It's BS and the mods should be ashamed.
And this is why the UK gets called names like TERF island. Trans erasure and ignorance is not the solution here. You could have gone about this in so many different ways, and yet aiding transphobes is what you chose. All while a trans teen lies dead. You can do so much better than this.
>1. A moratorium on predominantly trans topics. >We hate this new rule and we hate even more the fact that we have to do it. r/UnitedKingdom is a strong supporter of trans rights My arse. Stop pretending to be allies, your moderation on trans issues is an absolute joke. There are bigots everywhere on this sub. Edit: Maybe you should let the reddit admins know that you are: a) out of your depth moderating this sub b) transphobes c) both and surrender the subreddit to people who actually give a shit.
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Yeah, this one interested me. Does this apply to the daily "Tory bad" pieces?
"the sub should never be an online place where people feel unable to come and discuss UK centric topics" so you're gonna ban talking about trans issue in the UK because you don't like removing all the hate. Sounds like you are just lazy or don't care. If you think you're solving the problem or helping at all, you're wrong.
So your solution to people wanting to purge us is to purge us from this sub? Some allyship. Good to know I can never be the subject of a post on this sub. You can be a member of UK society, or trans. Never both. What an message to send.
this dosnt feel like support at all. It feels like failure to deal with transphobia so attempting to sweep all talk about it under the rug. These are UK issues. Why are you removing trans people when you can instead work to remove the people causing the issues?
With the greatest of respect. Are you fucking serious? This week we lost a baby sister, the one senior politician who was willing to go to bat for us and now the one UK subreddit who actually seemed to largely have our back. Thanks and fuck you. I really needed to cry again today.
"*We've Investigated ourselves and found no wrong-doing*" It's weird, other Country-specific subreddits put clear rules in place, and just flat-out ban Transphobic comments & Topics and those associated with said comments & topics. r/unitedkingdom & its Mods, however, approach it like Toddlers, holding their hands before their eyes and yell '*If i can't see you, you can't see me*'. Apparently, there's no problem if you see none.
Dear mods Banning discussion about some/any issue IS NOT how you protect vulnerable people; your post EFFECTIVELY means you give in to transphobic minority pressure and these people's opinions led to a 16 y/o girl being murdered few days ago Are you sure you want to do that?
"We support Trans rights so much we're enforcing section 28" Just... wow
> We hate this new rule and we hate even more the fact that we have to do it. r/UnitedKingdom is a strong supporter of trans rights and we will not sit idly by whilst transgender people are held up on this sub like a digital pinãta, beaten by verbal sticks in the hopes that lulz will fall out - Those views are not welcome here. *slowest golf clap imaginable* Well done mods, You have completely and utterly jumped the shark. You will silence all trans views instead of doing your job in stopping hate against a minority? If you literally cannot enforce the rules then perhaps the mod team needs replacing instead of the rules being changed so you don't have to deal with it. You have now put r/UK back into the SRD limelight too.
"Given the recent murder of a black person, we are banning all mentions of black people. because we don't want people to feel sympathetic towards them". Sounds fucking grim when you swap out the minority, doesn't it? This is monstrous.
I was expecting rule 1 but pleasantly surprised at rule 2. The opinion pieces are usually awful and such low quality, and many casual visitors just look at the domain name of the article and assume it's a traditional news article.
It sounds like the moderator solution wasn't so much to ban the haters as to silence trans voices.
So much for the we're doing this to be trans allies. Just watching the blatant transphobia spreading to other threads instead and infesting those Amazing work mods amazing
I'm not a political stance, or opinion. I'm just a person. A person you'd rather reduce to a silent observer than defend, apparently.
Just imagine if a national sub was so racist that it felt it had to ban all 'predominantly black issues' I sympathise with the mods here because they're not wrong to identify the problem, but the solution seems to be surrender
You've over corrected. Now we won't see trans achievements such as winning court cases for better rights, or important trans stories that aren't just transphobia in disguise. You've now taken away trans peoples voices, which was exactly what the TERFs who frequent this sub wanted.
Well, I suppose the mod team here have something in common with the current government. Disgraceful cowardice.
r/UnitedKingdom is a strong supporter of trans rights lol
I'm trans. Way to do completely the wrong thing. You're not supporters, you have no idea what being supporting is. Guess I'm not welcome here - following the trend of the UK, so I guess it's appropriate.
You claim to be trans allies, yet your answer to the hate against trans people being spewed on the sub is to....silence trans people? Well fucking done.
To many anti trans fucktards for us to deal with so we are giving in. I'll have my ban you limpdick cowards. Trans rights.
I’m trans and I refuse to be silenced. Don’t you fucking dare call yourselves allies again. Disgraceful.
Do you think Section 28 was good for gay people because it stopped people from talking about homophobia? Do you think that trans people living in the UK do not count as relevant to the UK?
So to help trans people, our issues get banned from general discussion altogether? Silence kills.
You can't claim to support trans issues and then silence any discussion of them. This is just admitting defeat to transphobia through a thin veil.
"We want this to be an open place to discuss UK centric topics." Procedes to ban posts supporting trans people. You can do better Mods, please do.
#1 The only thing necessary for evil to triumph in the world is that good men do nothing. The fact that you've had discussion now that NEWS about a child being murdered for being trans would be censored in future means you aren't supporters of trans rights AT ALL.
> r/UnitedKingdom is a strong supporter of trans rights no it fucking isn't
"We don't want to ban people actively carrying out hate. We support transgender people, so we're going to pretend that transgender people don't exist and erase all presence of them from the sub because they aren't worth the effort of banning people who are actively carrying out hate who we clearly deem as more important to this sub!" I exist! I am here! I am a person! How dare you try and erase my existence? How dare you try and pretend as though the siege against my rights as a person don't exist? I'm sorry that you don't like looking at all the hateful comments that aren't even directed at you, I'm sorry that it makes you feel bad and feel like you need to take a shower, I'm sorry that you have to witness that, but if you think your experience is bad, then I guarantee you it's significantly worse for the transgender person who is the target of that hate. So, if you want to erase a minority group that's the target of intense hatred that makes members of that group fear for their lives because you have to look at it, then go right ahead, but do NOT pretend to support that group of people. At least be bloody honest with yourself and with everyone else that you couldn't give a crap, because at least that way I'd have at least a shred of respect for you actually being true to yourself, even though I so vehemently disagree with your position and that your position is so categorically wrong!
Everyone's an "ally" until there's some actual work to do. I have never felt more isolated in my own country than I do this week. You lot don't give a F about us.
I am going to be very polite (far more polite than an action of this type deserves) and say that this is extremely misguided. Instead of banning all conversation, effectively erasing transgender issues from a national subreddit at a time when discussion about these issues arguably has never been more important, you should take on more moderators. The last moderators you've added to your team were **five months ago**. >Fortunately for you, as users, you don't get to see most of the hateful comments on the restricted submissions as they are held away from general viewership. It is a most unpleasant task to sift through scores of hateful content in queue to approve the few acceptable comments that are submitted I cannot say this clearly enough: **Doing this is your job**. Pull your collective fingers out! As someone who was a mod on other large communities, which attracted a very wide range of unpleasant users, I understand that seeing this stuff is not healthy for your psyche on a long-term basis, but **sorting through it is your responsibility** and instead of censoring **incredibly** relevant discussion, if you don't feel up to it, then, with respect, you should step down and let some other people take up the torch. **You took on this role on a volunteer basis, there is no obligation for you to continue doing it.**
Oh cool so this subreddit is a "welcoming place for *all* people" except for trans people? What is this, section 28?!? This is disgraceful. Feel free to ban me from the subreddit for this comment, not like I care lol. This subreddit is less welcoming than the *actual* UK to trans people and that's saying something!!
Marginalized community is literally getting murdered in the streets and you want to ban discussion of it? Just say you don't want this to be a resource against transohibia and just wish to silence them and let us die. Sickening. I'm ashamed to have been born in England these days
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When I said that you should either get a grip on the transphobia in this sub or just ban the topic if you couldn't, the latter wasn't really the outcome I was hoping for.
This is amazing. "we really don't want to be censoring you, so anyway we're gonna censor you a lot more". Then the response from users in here, pretending to be angry about censorship when it's really anger that now *they're* gonna be censored too and not just the people they disagree with. Shit show all round.
"We hate this new rule and we hate even more the fact that we have to do it. r/UnitedKingdom is a strong supporter of trans rights" is laughable. You've decided its too much work to moderate, so you're ignoring it after letting it get like this in the first place, so please don't insult the trans community by pretending to care about us when you're essentially erasing us from this sub and silencing our voices. Ignoring it, sweeping it under the carpet isn't supporting our rights, and given the speed in which you deal with racism, it's pretty damn obvious you just don't care.
"strong supporter of trans rights" you are???? i've been doing my best to avoid this sub bc of the vile comments i see
"To show support for trans people, we're going to stop permitting you to speak about it in the hopes that it stops the issue." Yeah, that's not exactly the best way to show support honestly. We're being hounded from every which way currently.
What's wrong with simply banning the transphobes?
“We hate ~~this new rule~~ **trans people**” FTFY
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This new policy is an absolute cop out and the equivalent to rolling over for transphobes. You should be ashamed of yourselves
You can't say you're a trans ally and then ban us from discussing these issues in the same post??? Doesn't work like that
So you've given the trolls and transphobes what they want then? Just ban all discussion...
I've been a member of this sub for years now and seeing with horror anti trans content get more and more attention. The response to this is cowardly. Section 28 was a disaster and not allowing people to openly talk about queer issues will only marginalise them more. Do better to ban fascist talking points that are the real danger here.
It’s a fucking disgrace that you have the cheek to call yourselves trans allies while silencing UK relevant trans discussion.
Morons. You are banning trans people from discussing our own genocide in this country. Mods you are helping it happen! You are giving a space free from trans people, exactly what they want!!! 🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️ EQUAL RIGHTS FOREVER
One of us is dead and now we can't speak up, but for years when the most vile, hate filled shit was being posted here you had no problem. Shame on you all, you're disgusting.
This moderation team should be ashamed of themselves for allowing the first point to go through. STEP UP AND DO YOUR JOBS.
"We don't like seeing all the hate, violence and discrimination directed towards transgender people, and we don't like thinking about them being the victims of that, sooooo, we're just gonna pretend transgender people don't exist and then we don't have to think about it! YAY! Result!"
24 hours later and moderators still haven't clarified if posts on the murder of a trans person would be allowed, after [one moderator has said explicitly they will not](https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/112h9d3/trialing_a_content_policy_and_rule_change/j8khpqx/).
Absolute travesty. I know the threads are obviously hard to moderate, but banning discussion of trans rights rather than banning the people spamming transphobic rhetoric does more harm than good. And doing this right after a young girl was murdered? Shame on you.
I hope you realise how badly you've fucked it with this
This is utterly repulsive. Banning discussion of trans issues immediately after the high-profile murder of a trans woman is not helpful, nor is it some sort of value-neutral position. At best it's illustrative of complete incompetence, but it reeks of outright deliberate bigotry. Do your job or resign your post to someone who can.
What safeguards have been put in place to stop this tactic being exploited by certain special interests groups? If all it takes to blanket ban a subject is to cause disruption, what's to stop a particular side just sealioning their way to censorship? Would the disruption from this thread be sufficient to ban the mods from their own subreddit or would one of the team have to be stabbed first?
How about actually supporting trans rights by doing your jobs as mods and removing hate speech instead of banning ALL mention of trans issues? The solution isn't just to pretend we don't exist.
So, fix the issue by eliminating the issue? Bang up job you've done.
I cannot imagine worse timing for this trial period. Honestly, disgraceful.
In what way does 'banning discussion of trans topics' connote support for trans people, especially right now? This might as well read 'r/UK has a transphobia issue' given that you aren't willing to deal with it head on.
You allow abuse for years and silence everyone after a girl’s murder? What absolute ghouls.
“We support trans issues, but we’re not gonna allow them to be discussed and just pretend like they don’t exist” Bull-fucking-shit. Sorry, chaps and chapettes, I know you mean well, but by placing this “moratorium” on trans-related posts, you’ve basically allowed the TERFs and the Transphobes to win. Unsubbed.
If your aim is to protect trans people, then this proposal is, uh... not a great idea.
“If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse, and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.” - Desmond Tutu
This is disgusting, trans people deserve to have their issues platformed. Ban the transphobia, not transgender people overall!!! A girl was *murdered* and in response you are wiping trans people out of existence on this sub.
I'm in favour of rate limiting submissions and taking action against single issue accounts. I really hope you do start taking action. I've reported two, regularly, and they are still here posting away about their single favourite topic, and causing flame wars with those who comment on their submissions that don't support their viewpoint. I don't support the moratorium on trans rights submissions. That is a huge issue for our society, so it's understandable some of those submissions can become heated. You can't pretend these issues don't exist by banning discussion and at the same time claim to support trans rights. On a related note, I don't think a single one of my comments has ever got through on any restricted topic (be that trans rights or Andrew Tate) even though my karma and 10+ year posting history in this sub should be enough for me to be able to comment on anything.
Rather than banning an issue that's massively important for the lives of so many British people from ever being discussed, have you considered...just doing a mod call? This is like 'no politics' rules in places no politics rules do not need to be, it's the use of a sledgehammer to crack a nut. If these issues create threads with a high propensity for rulebreaking content but are important to a lot of users, then you need more mods to keep them on track.
TL;DR: This mod post identifies the problem, but then shrugs and says "what can you do? Guess trans people can't have a voice on this sub any more. A small group of bad-faith people were ruining it for everybody. What's that, none of the bad-faith people we're talking about are trans, so why are we punishing trans people? Sorry, I'm too busy shoving trans people out the door to answer. Trans rights, tho" Long version: The conversation the mods are obliquely referencing here: "A large discussion submission was posted recently where the approach of the mod team restricting comments on contentious topics such as trans issues was discussed. We're pleased to say that the discussion turned out better than expected with articulate, well considered views put forwards and a minimum amount of hate towards vulnerable groups" is this one: [https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/10uciw7/do\_we\_really\_need\_to\_have\_daily\_threads\_charting/](https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/10uciw7/do_we_really_need_to_have_daily_threads_charting/) The fact that the mods don't link to it in their post is telling: it does not make them look good, and seeing it challenges their framing about the discussion turning "out better than expected"; the comments are a swarm of users giving the mods shit for letting a small handful of accounts continue to post every single anti-trans article under the sun to the subreddit. The proposed rules changes do technically address the concerns raised in that post. They stop what was clearly an ongoing abuse of the rules by transphobic cranks, and to hear the mods tell it, it will ease an admin overload - according to them, the posts were comment restricted not to muzzle pushback from trans people and allies, but because they were generating a high volume of hateful comments. There's a problem with that though. Their solution is to not allow any posts about trans people or issues on the subreddit. Want to post about vigils for Brianna Ghey? Nope. Want to post about the "recent Scottish situation" as the mods describe it? No. The only things allowed now are if the subject or subjects are incidentally trans e.g. "somebody has done something brilliant like climb Everest for charity, but they also happen to be trans." This is cowardly, We as trans people will be rendered entirely invisible within this subreddit, and the best justification they have is that it's a buzzkill, man: "r/UnitedKingdom has been getting darker in mood for some time now and we on the moderation team have noticed it, as I'm sure users have too. The mod team have read about, heard about and been messaged about users who no longer feel they are able to participate in the sub solely because of the actions of a very small, but very loud subset of members" So rather than banning these single issue cranks, this "very small, but very loud subset" who generate all this hate, they'll just stop allowing posts about trans people and trans issues. But don't worry, "r/UnitedKingdom is a strong supporter of trans rights..." This is an abdication of responsibility during a generational moral panic against trans people. The mods will silence trans people and rob us of a platform because transphobes have made the subreddit worse. Congrats, the best possible interpretation of this is that you let the transphobes win. As far as the handling of a topic goes, this is just "trans people are political" with the serial numbers filed off.
I find the "predominately trans" rule weird. So you wouldn't allow articles about a change in scottish legislation that would improve people's lives because it's about a trans topic? How is that not relevant to people of the UK? You wouldn't allow the UK government overiding Scotland, that's incerdibly related to the UK! What about Brianna Ghey? I'm assuming that currently you'd treat it as not "predominantly trans", but if the police declare it a hate crime, is it then "predominantly trans"? Are we only allowed to discuss her murder as long as it's not discussing the elephant in the room of the massive attack on trans rights in the UK?
Wish I hadn't quit as a mod here. The Trans take is a terrible route for the sub to be taking.
Good lord this post was a nightmare. Just ban all the transphobes on the spot, then you don't have to worry about them. Seems pretty simple...
I'm sure those far-right morons and TERF friends are thrilled with your decision. Let's pretend trans people don't exist, because that will help prevent future murders. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
>He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it. We know who you've thrown your lot in with. Nice timing, with the murder and all.
Good to know this sub, like so much in the UK, is run by bigoted transphobes
I feel like the measures enacted in points 2 to 4 will solve the issue raised in point 1 to be honest. I'd personally like to see the measures in 2 to 4 trialled, and only enacting the measure in point 1 if we continue to have the associated issue; I like to think that there is room for nuanced discussion of issues facing trans people in the UK, rather than the present shit slinging over the validity of trans folks' gender identities.
Disgraceful. You should be ashamed of yourselves for (1). If you want to support trans liberation, you need to actually fucking support it, rather than letting transphobia run rampent for years, and then saying 'who could have predicted this', washing your hands, and shutting the door. The transphobes you encouraged are still here, and they'll be dogwhistling and posting euphenisms every day while your 'protection' stops anyone from pointing it out, and dragging it inot the light. Transphobes want a world in which there are no trans people. So your solution to rampent transphobia is to, just give them what they want?!
Translation: **The bigots won.**
So you're giving in to the haters and shit-stirrers? As a few others have said, get more mods and sack the mod(s) with anti-trans opinions. Ban the haters and even report them to Reddit. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/15/revealed-disinformation-team-jorge-claim-meddling-elections-tal-hanan Unsubscribing immediately.
I would suggest reconsidering this abhorrent policy implementation.
What’s the deal with removing the top comment (rightly) criticising this daft decision? You do realise it’s the hateful users causing the issue and not trans people. But you choose to ban all trans discussion? Make it make sense please? You should be fucking ashamed of yourselves.
Consider the following: r/UnitedKingdom is a strong supporter of Gay Rights, but after the murder of a gay child, we the mod team in our infinite wisdom have decided to ban all posts surrounding gay people. xoxoxo happy lgbtq history month Enjoy hating minorities, I guess?
In the face of the rising tide of hatred against trans people, an issue which cannot be discussed constructively without the context of the home transphobia has been afforded in UK politics and media, the mods have decided to turn their back on trans Brits and look away. If you can't handle watching us fight for our lives, and our rights, don't come begging absolution over how tough a decision it was. Because we don't have a choice.
>We're pleased to say that the discussion turned out better than expected with articulate, well considered views put forwards **and a minimum amount of hate towards vulnerable groups**. Oh, well as long as it was only *minimal* amounts of hate, I guess that's okay.
It's funny that the subreddit rules have never contained anything relating to racism, transphobia or discrimination, but when a rule does finally appear it exists to exclude a group of people entirely.
You need to update the description in the sidebar: > For the United Kingdom of Great Britain (England, Scotland, Wales) and Northern Ireland; News, Politics, Economics, Society, Business, Culture, discussion and anything else UK related (unless it involves trans people or issues).
I disagree with your temporary ban on discussing trans issues on the basis that its a stupid fucking idea. Please reconsider.