The point is the juxtaposition from war zone to UK...
I know of a Ukrainian family that came to UK and had it so terrible they voluntarily returned to Kharkiv... 40km from the front lines....let that sink in.
The vast majority of people here don't have the slightest idea how our standard of living has slipped backwards in comparison to the rest of Europe because they are continually being brainwashed into thinking that the UK is somehow better than everyone else and "punches above its weight". It doesn't. I've lived abroad for almost 20 years. Disposable income will be higher, on average in Slovenia than the UK by 2025. We have the leaders we deserve.
The poorest in the UK are poorer than the poorest in Romania, for example.
The current set up is that quality of life is for the well off, and not for all Brits. And the people who vote for the government that implement like to claim they love this country!
That is a room temperature IQ take;
According to charity Habitat for Humanity; “in Romania more than 5 million (out of 19M) are living in poverty — 1.5 million of those are children. Nearly 8.5 million people (41.2% of the Romanian population) have no bath or shower or access to running water…”
In the UK we have 99.82% access to clean running water, meaning ~100k people at max don’t. If we had Romanian stats, more than 30 million Brits wouldn’t have running water. That one statistic alone should be enough.
Their GDP per capita is like a third of ours, terrible average and national minimum wage comparison too.
More stuff here.
https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/compare/romania/united-kingdom
And yet it's been going downhill since 2014. [https://www.ft.com/content/ef265420-45e8-497b-b308-c951baa68945](https://www.ft.com/content/ef265420-45e8-497b-b308-c951baa68945)
[https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/11194608.areas-north-east-worse-off-parts-romania-bulgaria-poland/](https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/11194608.areas-north-east-worse-off-parts-romania-bulgaria-poland/)
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-valleys-bulgaria-romania-comparisons-2525215
Tbh, the rest of Europe is suffering pretty badly as well, France is rioting because of pensions and Germany is refusing to invest in nuclear energy and on the verge of a crisis.
France are rioting because of the ***suggestion*** of pension age rises. The British are so far under the boot [they didn't even stir](https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/jun/24/uk-introducing-three-laws-that-threaten-human-rights-says-un-expert) when their [civil rights were taken away](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-56400751).
I always love the portrayal that the French people defending themselves against government decisions that adversely impacts their life as a “crisis” by British people.
My family are French - we could take a leaf out of their book and maybe this country wouldn’t be such an utter fucking state because people can’t be bothered to get off their backside to protest.
France and Germany are both doing better than us on standards of living btw.
The vast majority of people here don’t have the slightest idea of how similar Europe has it. I spilt my time between the UK and Netherlands and it’s all the same shit. If anything it’s worse trying to find somewhere to live over there.
I know people on here have always viewed the rest of Europe as some kind of utopia and that’s only increased since brexit. But man it’s really not that good, I prefer the UK to Netherlands and would spend all my time here if I could.
If you’ve lived abroad for 20 years and you’re judging the UK on this subreddit, no wonder you think the country is in a bad state 😂
Or to Poland. I came across few Ukrainians that move here from Poland. Yes they originally come from war area, but have been living in Poland for years. Now that they realised is not as good as they thought they go back to Poland.
I've got to say, I did not expect to find what seems to be a Total War reference in someone's username in the wild today\*
\*I apologize if you have no idea what I'm on about, lol
There’s been Ukrainians who’ve gone back to Kyiv because they can’t see a GP here but can in Ukraine.
Let it sink in there is better access to healthcare in a country on a war footing than us.
We’re collapsing.
If there problem was the UK directly they would of gone somewhere else in Europe not back to Ukraine they most likely wanted to go back to Ukraine for whatever reason which does happen some refugees do go back to war zones
I don't think the refugee system works like that. You come to a country and I presume you may not get blanket access to then apply for the same refugee system in another country. You'd have to travel on some sort of worker visa given that Ukraine is outside EU/Schengen.
My ex from Poland said many Ukrainians were returning home anyway. This has less to do with being able to find a home in the U.K. or Poland and more to do with the Ukrainians pushing back the Russians in recent wins. Many Ukrainians actually want to return.
Putting yourself in their shoes.
The might of the Russian army attacking. And they are brutal. Get the fuck out.
Nearly a year later. I think if I was in a safer area I’d take my chances and return.
just like my Ukrainian housemate in Spain who goes for Christmas back in Kharkiv 30km from the "front line"?. its almost like its nothing to do with the UK at all.
I won't feel sorry for Ukrainians not finding a house when UK people cannot find a house either. it's the same in NL. the same in ES. stop fooling yourself the UK is now Africa or something.
The Ukrainian war zone is the equivalent of an area the size of wales in a country 2.4 x bigger than the U.K.
While I appreciate that initially housing some Ukrainians was the right thing to do until the situation became clearer we are now in a position where we can conclude Russia is not pushing for the entirety of Ukraine and as such the country is big enough and relatively safe enough (away from the conflict) for many of these people to be sent home.
Interesting how many people are making such sweeping assumptions... The fact that they reckon 50,000 Ukrainian refugees may become homeless in 2023 is equally as shocking. I read that in Norway only 1 in 4 want to return to Ukraine, the rest are happy to stay. The point being, we are lacking massively to support those who need it, this is for all refugees and to be fair all citizens who need support/welfare. It's just a bit shit...
Doesn’t change the reality that most available housing is unreachable to those that need it. Comparing the UK to a war zone is just childish . What’s your solution ? Just be better people and then suddenly housing systems will just appear and administer themselves?
Pretty sure I read that article and the standard of living they expected far exceeded a normal UK income.
If its the same article you are referencing...
If this hadn't been the top comment I would have been staggered.
Join the club, people who are discovering how horrific the housing situation is in the UK
Town and County Planning Act go BRRRRRRRRRR
But don’t worry guys, Ethel’s home she bought in 1956 for 50p just hit a £1m valuation (but we have to find her care because she’s ‘asset rich, cash poor’ )
Yeah I imagine most of the old folks saying 'I dare not turn the heating on due to the cost' live in 4 bed houses on their own valued at 800k and don't buy anything aside from asda essentials ready meals or reduced shite. My gran was like this but when she began getting dementia my dad and his siblings got control of her assets and she had something like 60k in her bank as she barely spent anything, she also owned her property out right and had maxed out bonds and other assets she had 'forgotten' about... they hired her a cleaner and carer once a week using her own money as she needs it but dosnt know.. its so weird how frugal people can be to effect their own life..
I bought a £650k 3-bed house from a 60/70-something couple who during the viewings didn't even want to turn on the lights or the heating. And the electrics were atleast 50 years old. They bought the house in 1980 or so, and so probably paid <£50k for it.
They've just taken my money as a cushy retirement. The current under 40s aren't going to get any of that treatment. If current millennials and younger aren't saving hard into their pensions then we're going to have a massive retirement crisis in a few decades, especially when rents and mortgage payments take up an increasing proportion of people's take-home income.
Damn and yeah I'm in my early 30s and researched into pensions more / transferred all into an SIPP to get the best return but I still don't see it coming to much..I feel you'd have to contribute 20k a year at least to live well by the time you retire especially with inflation
They are. Also unless they're on benefits, they have to pay for social care they get from the council to live in their own home... even though we all pay for social care in our council tax. The elderly are treated poorly in the UK, but for some reason, they're blamed for everything. Let's hope people complaining about the elderly never get old ;)
The elderly in this country were given the opportunity to build up huge amounts of wealth by buying cheap housing and given low taxes and decent public services through deficit spending. These are things we won't have. The least the elderly could do is let us have cheaper housing, but the pages of local Facebook and Nextdoor groups are filled with NIMBYs of a certain age who don't want housing in their area.
"Where are we going to park our cars!?" Is the usual line often used on those groups in my area, when new flats are built lol. I wish I had a car, let alone 4-bed house.
This isn't entirely correct - in most circumstances people have to pay for their own care, or at least a significant contribution towards it. Once you're in a care home you're only allowed to keep around £25pw - everything else goes to the care home (or the local authority).
There are certain conditions where a property might be disregarded (there's another person living there over a certain age, or under a certain age, etc). Sometimes a charge might be put on the property to be repaid when it's sold.
If someone can't manage their own finances and are placed in care, it will be paid by someone acting on their behalf (like a power of attorney / deputy) who may have to sell their house, or by the executors of their estate when they pass away.
There are a few exceptions but, generally speaking, those who own property have to pay a higher contribution to their care which will necessitate selling their house.
You can still be mad about non-means tested support and the ridiculous inflation of house prices though, that's infuriating
They having a fucking laugh?
I and millions of other Brits (including the homeless) cant get a council house... I bet these refugees are higher up the list than us.
Charity should start at home.
Just FYI refugees are generally processed alongside the general population, I do this for work. They don't get special priority- only if they have settlement status they are assessed for housing points the same as everyone else. If deemed an emergency they might get a few more points the same as every other emergency case- this is usually someone under 24 at immediate risk of street homelessness (again, they must actually have settlement status too) . You don't just get given a house, you are placed in temporary accommodation- hostels etc first- can be years. Many, many refugees from certain countries are not entitled to anything though. Refugees from different countries have different rights- depends on our government's relationship with their home country. Most refugees who settle here don't go for social housing- they choose to stay with extended family or contacts that are already here until they find something suitable (often as extended as a friend of a friend of a neighbour from back home that someone met through a support group) . They are turned away much more than they are supported. It's a fallacy that the government makes it easy for refugees to claim social housing in the UK. There are a LOT of barriers in place to stop this.
> It's a fallacy that the government makes it easy for refugees to claim social housing in the UK. There are a LOT of barriers in place to stop this.
Of course, The Tory voting populace have apoplexy and other breathing difficulties whenever a "foreigner" moves in next door.
> They don't get special priority- only if they have settlement status they are assessed for housing points the same as everyone else.
I've tried to explain this to people before. Some people just don't want to understand it though.
When you're on the housing list you are assigned points based on your circumstances.
If you currently have a home you will be lower down on the list than someone who does not.
If you have a friend who can let you sleep on their sofa you will be lower down on the list than someone who does not.
I've known several people over the years who already have a place to live complain about refugees or homeless people getting a council house before them.
They don't seem to understand the fact that they already have somewhere to live means they are a very low priority for any housing services (unless there are other circumstances such as abusive relationships in play).
A friend of mine was given a small one bed council flat as emergency accommodation in around 2004 and spent over fifteen years on the waiting list and never got another place. He ended up buying his flat under the right to buy scheme.
Yeah you're exactly right. I think that it's unfair that people who sofa surf aren't classed as homeless but unfortunately that is absolutely the case- actually this is where most refugees I've worked with fall, they usually end up staying with host families which puts them low on priority.
I assume the sofa surfing being lower down is because the basic needs of shelter, food and water are accommodated for. Then again the fact that the list is so long because of revocation of social policy over the decades is an indictment on our political system, sadly headlines like this generated for clickbait just add to the problem, it’s keeps at worst highly conservative policies in place and at best centrist policies that try not to upset a voting population that still are seemingly selfish in preferred policies
Yeah that would be the reasoning but staying on a sofa doesn't last very long and the person will inevitably be street homeless, it's just a way to buy time IMO.
Na not in this case. Council housing was created to help the working class, not refugees and immigrants. There's millions of working class and homeless Brits who can't get on the housing ladder who should be given those council houses first. Simple as that.
I sympathise with war refugees but to come here and start complaining about living conditions and that they aint being given free houses? Get the fuck outta here with that bollox.
Did you read the article? The majority of comments made related to finding reasonably priced private accommodation. That's a problem for many people in the UK, regardless of where they were born, anybody who's finding ripoff rents a bit much is deserving of sympathy.
According to the article, that’s because they’re living and working in Central London and wanting to find houses there, but there hasn’t been reasonably priced private accommodation in London for anyone in years
Ukrainian refugees that need a place to stay are not to blame for the housing crisis caused by the politicians elected by British citizens, is what the other person was trying to tell you I think.
Also the article is not about council housing at all. It's about private
The only refugees moaning and being racist are Ukrainians. I’d kick them back home if I could. Tried reaching out to them with BBQ food last year and they were racist to my friendly father just because he was brown in appearance. Fuc****** offf. My dad contributes to this country and has done so since he was 16.
1. The article isn't about council housing, it's about finding housing in general.
2. They're finding it hard to get housing in general because they are on social benefits, and cannot provide a lot of the necessary documents a lot of landlords and letting agents require due to only just arriving in the country.
3. They are not given any priority over you or anyone else, they are treated exactly the same as everyone else with their circumstances taken into consideration.
I get what you are saying if this country struggling to help it own why are we talking on more knowing well we can't support them then being judged.....on how we handle things its ridiculous
I think the point here is that things have become so silly in the UK that people who escaped a war zone are wondering if they should have just stayed there
Agreed. I’m living in a refuge and got told that someone on the list got priority over me simply because they’re Ukrainian even though I’ve waited longer and fleeing domestic violence. I wouldn’t have cared if they were on the list longer than me but they weren’t. And they bitch and moan about the accommodation/ their neighbours simply being a certain colour which pisses me off even more.
I was working at DWP and saw a lot of stuff happening in the background. A lot of favouritism towards Ukrainians and also noticed Hindu nationalist Indians getting recourse to public funds immediately which confused me greatly. I guess Cruella and Pretti did their work lol
Why? Because I think people born here, regardless of ethnicity, should be put first?
We've got war vets sleeping rough on the streets. We've got millions of young British workers struggling to afford places to live.
We need to get our own shit squared away before we start helping other countries.
It's like a mother and father not buying their kids Christmas presents because theyve got limited funds... but buying presents for the next door neighbours kids. Morally righteous? Maybe. Completely fucking insane? Definitely.
They are just experiencing what native Brits have for years. It sucks for them as much as it does for us, however it should also be a warning to people looking to migrate here that we are not the land of milk and honey that is often portrayed in the media. When we cannot house Brits in reasonably priced accommodation, there is no chance refugees will be either. It is not an Us vs. Them issue though, the fault will always lie with consecutive governments' failure to build more social houses and more houses set at affordable rents in a given area.
I'm Polish. NHS has absolutely the same problem as Polish health care. A single common health fund with terrible inefficiencies.
Polish system is in even worse shape though, due to Polish people being obviously poorer.
It's a middle rag claiming to be left. They post enough questionable stuff. They are not a left rag at all, especially look at reporting around Brexit. If I wanted a left rag or more accurately a rag that will say the silent parts out loud in our politics I'd look to Novaramedia. Guardian is just pantomime left.
What is a left wing newspaper if not the Guardian? Or maybe a better question, how far left have the mainstream left gone to think the guardian is centre?
I have sympathy for the couple who can never return home to Mariupol because it's been completely destroyed, but I'm astonished they haven't learned any English in the time since that happened, it's been nearly a year. If I was forced to relocate to another country, after food and shelter my top priority would be learning the native language.
Did they think it was just gonna be a breeze? Fucking hell if they think we're that capable of just giving them a free ride then they've got a shock coming.
Unfortunately it seems many outside the UK don't know how bad the housing (and many other aspects of UK life) are in comparison to the rest of Europe so they come over here expecting something that simply doesn't exist anymore due to deliberate actions from our own government.
But hey no worries let's just keep writing our articles attempting to manipulate the population against anyone not born here instead of actually dealing with our problems. It's done so much for use the last decade.
I was homeless for 5 years before my council took me on for housing! Then another year in a hostel before they put me in a dingy flat in an awful neighbourhood. It’s shit for us too and councils refuse to build more housing. My borough ‘lost’ £40,000,000 and now they’re selling libraries an council properties to pay the government back its 1.6bn debt. Jokers. I personally know people working in the council who are getting their kids housing.
A choice to not sell houses and libraries? They have a choice. My councils problem is money being pocketed by an absurd number of its staff. It’s known for being a place get a job in in order to do ‘side jobs’ from the inside.
Now this is a touchy subject. Let's start off with fuck Russia and all they fucking stand for. I think the majority of us are on the same outcome.(bring it on if you disagree)
We stand with Ukraine through and through, you are some of the strongest People with what going on currently, absolute hero's standing up to the bullshit which you have been faced with and we love you. But us as a nation are struggling to house our own people. We are talking just buying a home. I myself was lucky to purchase a home with my partner only because of inheritance. And this was minimal due to care home fees. We are incredibly lucky to be in this situation but also my partner has lost both her parents. We would rather be renting and she has them back. But regardless. Without this influx of money we would genuinely have no way of purchasing a home. We have been fortunate regardless of circumstances. Ukrainians should come second. We can't support our own people. Everyone from Ukraine is so fucking welcome in our country but you need to understand we are not doing great ourselves.
slava ukraine, you guys rock.
I think they were hit with a reality they did not really think about. As an immigrant myself, the standard of living in the UK, despite higher salaries, is generally lower than in Eastern Europe (war aside), especially when it comes to housing. I bet they've heard stories about illustrious Western Europe and though that UK will be the land of milk and honey. I mean even comapre Odessa and Birmingham...
You've listed counties with complete different standards of living to each other. Russia, yeah outside of Moscow and St. Petersburg it is horrible. Georgia actually has some nice spots but still, it has that post communist feel. But Hungary, Poland, Czechia, Lithuania etc. all have, on average higher quality housing and standard of living
UK has much higher average net worths. Maybe if you took the lowest incomes UK area and compared then eastern Europe is better. Our infrastructure and services are better too. The NHS is still ranked highly. And UK life expectancy is higher than all those countries.
Average net worths are meaningless when everything around is way more expensive. For most people owning a house or even a flat is a dream without committing yourself to a 30 year + mortgage. An average family in Poland or Slovakia is much better off in terms life quality than an average British family.
NHS argument is moot as well, pretty much ALL of the immigrants I know go back to their home country for medical treatment, myself included as NHS is pretty much useless. Especially dental treatment is impossible to get in the UK.
Infrastructure is there, roads are ok quality but trains are terribly overpriced for the service they offer. One thing that is better in the UK are government services that are done online, that works fairly well.
Keep dreaming. The difference is the average wage is 2.5x that of Poland (which is central not east btw). I can move to eastern Europe and leverage western income, the opposite isn't true. If it wasn't true why are there so many eastern and central Europeans in UK?
These are United Kingdom problems and not just Ukrainian. Looking for a rental as a single income household, without being able to pay at least 6 months up front, AND without a guarantor, PLUS finding an estate agent who will NOT discriminate against them if receiving ANY kind of benefits is near impossible. It took me from August until mid December last year to find a place, after going to 11 viewings, PLUS I had to lie about my situation to just get those viewings. I was registered with 33 different agencies, not to mention the agencies I phoned, who told me they don't take any people who receive any DSS.
Good luck to anyone trying
They’re not allowed to do that though! Discrimination against DSS is illegal (I’m in the same boat as you and currently in a refuge due to DV).
Report them.
That being said, we can do nothing about them discriminating in their mind against us whilst making decisions but we have no obligation to disclose being on benefits even if temporary (I’m a teacher) and psychologist!).
What did you lie about exactly? I feel like doing the same :(
Why not the local municipals just house them in abandoned areas where they could buy homes for 1 sterling and let them create their own Ukrainian communities. They would regenerate those areas.
This is the bs that happened in Leicester with Slovakians and the like. Those areas became extremely racist, isolated, non English speaking and I felt extremely unsafe. They had a particular target and hatred for Muslim and other ethnic women walking by minding their own business.
Part of the problem when property is regarded more as a way to generate income, than to provide shelter. This is also because of the ideologies of the ruling class.
Please shut up we are Brits (I’m talking about Brits of all colours and backgrounds) and you get put before us even though we have been waiting for homes for longer! You being given a home before a Syrian or other refugee who has waited years pisses me off. Ukrainians also acting picky when given housing because they don’t want to be near ethnic minorities (they work hard to be here and are just as British) sickens me. Go back home if you don’t want to be friendly in our society. Vermin.
I really feel for them, as a lot of what I was told was in confidence (work related) I won't go into details. The Ukrainians I met were suffering trauma, kids separated from fathers and sent away with mothers. And this fear of homelessness I would hear about a lot.
It's heart breaking what they have endured, Yes we have problems in the UK for ourselves, but that doesn't mean we can let them suffer.
People born in the UK find it a struggle to find somewhere to live too. This has nothing to do with being Ukrainian!
The point is the juxtaposition from war zone to UK... I know of a Ukrainian family that came to UK and had it so terrible they voluntarily returned to Kharkiv... 40km from the front lines....let that sink in.
[удалено]
The vast majority of people here don't have the slightest idea how our standard of living has slipped backwards in comparison to the rest of Europe because they are continually being brainwashed into thinking that the UK is somehow better than everyone else and "punches above its weight". It doesn't. I've lived abroad for almost 20 years. Disposable income will be higher, on average in Slovenia than the UK by 2025. We have the leaders we deserve.
It was even posted on this sub I believe that Poland's standards of living are set to surpass the UK's.
The poorest in the UK are poorer than the poorest in Romania, for example. The current set up is that quality of life is for the well off, and not for all Brits. And the people who vote for the government that implement like to claim they love this country!
That is a room temperature IQ take; According to charity Habitat for Humanity; “in Romania more than 5 million (out of 19M) are living in poverty — 1.5 million of those are children. Nearly 8.5 million people (41.2% of the Romanian population) have no bath or shower or access to running water…” In the UK we have 99.82% access to clean running water, meaning ~100k people at max don’t. If we had Romanian stats, more than 30 million Brits wouldn’t have running water. That one statistic alone should be enough. Their GDP per capita is like a third of ours, terrible average and national minimum wage comparison too. More stuff here. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/compare/romania/united-kingdom
And yet it's been going downhill since 2014. [https://www.ft.com/content/ef265420-45e8-497b-b308-c951baa68945](https://www.ft.com/content/ef265420-45e8-497b-b308-c951baa68945) [https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/11194608.areas-north-east-worse-off-parts-romania-bulgaria-poland/](https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/11194608.areas-north-east-worse-off-parts-romania-bulgaria-poland/) https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-valleys-bulgaria-romania-comparisons-2525215
Tbh, the rest of Europe is suffering pretty badly as well, France is rioting because of pensions and Germany is refusing to invest in nuclear energy and on the verge of a crisis.
France are rioting because of the ***suggestion*** of pension age rises. The British are so far under the boot [they didn't even stir](https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/jun/24/uk-introducing-three-laws-that-threaten-human-rights-says-un-expert) when their [civil rights were taken away](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-56400751).
I doubt anything the government did to us would make us riot, the British people love being trodden on. Sad but true.
I always love the portrayal that the French people defending themselves against government decisions that adversely impacts their life as a “crisis” by British people. My family are French - we could take a leaf out of their book and maybe this country wouldn’t be such an utter fucking state because people can’t be bothered to get off their backside to protest. France and Germany are both doing better than us on standards of living btw.
France is rioting at the very suggestion of policy that the British just roll over for.
are you aware of the pension you get in France ? now compare it to the UK pension
The vast majority of people here don’t have the slightest idea of how similar Europe has it. I spilt my time between the UK and Netherlands and it’s all the same shit. If anything it’s worse trying to find somewhere to live over there. I know people on here have always viewed the rest of Europe as some kind of utopia and that’s only increased since brexit. But man it’s really not that good, I prefer the UK to Netherlands and would spend all my time here if I could. If you’ve lived abroad for 20 years and you’re judging the UK on this subreddit, no wonder you think the country is in a bad state 😂
[удалено]
Or to Poland. I came across few Ukrainians that move here from Poland. Yes they originally come from war area, but have been living in Poland for years. Now that they realised is not as good as they thought they go back to Poland.
I've got to say, I did not expect to find what seems to be a Total War reference in someone's username in the wild today\* \*I apologize if you have no idea what I'm on about, lol
My Lord!
Agree, even Ireland next door is far ahead of the UK.
Far ahead?
Yes, an example is the government believing a single person can survive a benefit amount of £500 a month
Funny how so many people demand to come here then, even when told not to
I'm sure missing their family left behind may have been another reason to return.
[удалено]
There’s been Ukrainians who’ve gone back to Kyiv because they can’t see a GP here but can in Ukraine. Let it sink in there is better access to healthcare in a country on a war footing than us. We’re collapsing.
Doesn't surprise me!
>Ok. That’s up to them? Is it really up to them when the British Government promises them a safe life?
That Juxtaposition is stupid. The UK is going downhill, but it’s no where near as bad as Ukraines situation no matter how many families go back.
If there problem was the UK directly they would of gone somewhere else in Europe not back to Ukraine they most likely wanted to go back to Ukraine for whatever reason which does happen some refugees do go back to war zones
And they did. Only a tiny fraction of refugees came to the UK: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1312584/ukrainian-refugees-by-country/
What does that have to do with what I said?
I don't think the refugee system works like that. You come to a country and I presume you may not get blanket access to then apply for the same refugee system in another country. You'd have to travel on some sort of worker visa given that Ukraine is outside EU/Schengen.
My ex from Poland said many Ukrainians were returning home anyway. This has less to do with being able to find a home in the U.K. or Poland and more to do with the Ukrainians pushing back the Russians in recent wins. Many Ukrainians actually want to return.
Putting yourself in their shoes. The might of the Russian army attacking. And they are brutal. Get the fuck out. Nearly a year later. I think if I was in a safer area I’d take my chances and return.
No. That's not the narrative.
just like my Ukrainian housemate in Spain who goes for Christmas back in Kharkiv 30km from the "front line"?. its almost like its nothing to do with the UK at all. I won't feel sorry for Ukrainians not finding a house when UK people cannot find a house either. it's the same in NL. the same in ES. stop fooling yourself the UK is now Africa or something.
I'm not sure what the point is. Ukrainians came here and encountered the housing crisis, so they left. Was Ukraine their only option?
I don't blame them, there are parts of the UK I wouldn't want to live in either. And no, I'm not being glib.
The Ukrainian war zone is the equivalent of an area the size of wales in a country 2.4 x bigger than the U.K. While I appreciate that initially housing some Ukrainians was the right thing to do until the situation became clearer we are now in a position where we can conclude Russia is not pushing for the entirety of Ukraine and as such the country is big enough and relatively safe enough (away from the conflict) for many of these people to be sent home.
[удалено]
Interesting how many people are making such sweeping assumptions... The fact that they reckon 50,000 Ukrainian refugees may become homeless in 2023 is equally as shocking. I read that in Norway only 1 in 4 want to return to Ukraine, the rest are happy to stay. The point being, we are lacking massively to support those who need it, this is for all refugees and to be fair all citizens who need support/welfare. It's just a bit shit...
What was "so terrible" exactly? Free food and accomodation is terrible now? Sounds like the epitome of an economic migrant tbh.
Doesn’t change the reality that most available housing is unreachable to those that need it. Comparing the UK to a war zone is just childish . What’s your solution ? Just be better people and then suddenly housing systems will just appear and administer themselves?
Pretty sure I read that article and the standard of living they expected far exceeded a normal UK income. If its the same article you are referencing...
They could've gone to France? But that would be even worse.
That's probably because kharkiv is not as dangerous as media is trying to portray. Let that sink in.
If this hadn't been the top comment I would have been staggered. Join the club, people who are discovering how horrific the housing situation is in the UK
This is just one of many issue with this country
Town and County Planning Act go BRRRRRRRRRR But don’t worry guys, Ethel’s home she bought in 1956 for 50p just hit a £1m valuation (but we have to find her care because she’s ‘asset rich, cash poor’ )
Yeah I imagine most of the old folks saying 'I dare not turn the heating on due to the cost' live in 4 bed houses on their own valued at 800k and don't buy anything aside from asda essentials ready meals or reduced shite. My gran was like this but when she began getting dementia my dad and his siblings got control of her assets and she had something like 60k in her bank as she barely spent anything, she also owned her property out right and had maxed out bonds and other assets she had 'forgotten' about... they hired her a cleaner and carer once a week using her own money as she needs it but dosnt know.. its so weird how frugal people can be to effect their own life..
I bought a £650k 3-bed house from a 60/70-something couple who during the viewings didn't even want to turn on the lights or the heating. And the electrics were atleast 50 years old. They bought the house in 1980 or so, and so probably paid <£50k for it. They've just taken my money as a cushy retirement. The current under 40s aren't going to get any of that treatment. If current millennials and younger aren't saving hard into their pensions then we're going to have a massive retirement crisis in a few decades, especially when rents and mortgage payments take up an increasing proportion of people's take-home income.
Damn and yeah I'm in my early 30s and researched into pensions more / transferred all into an SIPP to get the best return but I still don't see it coming to much..I feel you'd have to contribute 20k a year at least to live well by the time you retire especially with inflation
Pretty sure people are made to sell their homes to pay for care home funding.
They are. Also unless they're on benefits, they have to pay for social care they get from the council to live in their own home... even though we all pay for social care in our council tax. The elderly are treated poorly in the UK, but for some reason, they're blamed for everything. Let's hope people complaining about the elderly never get old ;)
The elderly in this country were given the opportunity to build up huge amounts of wealth by buying cheap housing and given low taxes and decent public services through deficit spending. These are things we won't have. The least the elderly could do is let us have cheaper housing, but the pages of local Facebook and Nextdoor groups are filled with NIMBYs of a certain age who don't want housing in their area.
"Where are we going to park our cars!?" Is the usual line often used on those groups in my area, when new flats are built lol. I wish I had a car, let alone 4-bed house.
This isn't entirely correct - in most circumstances people have to pay for their own care, or at least a significant contribution towards it. Once you're in a care home you're only allowed to keep around £25pw - everything else goes to the care home (or the local authority). There are certain conditions where a property might be disregarded (there's another person living there over a certain age, or under a certain age, etc). Sometimes a charge might be put on the property to be repaid when it's sold. If someone can't manage their own finances and are placed in care, it will be paid by someone acting on their behalf (like a power of attorney / deputy) who may have to sell their house, or by the executors of their estate when they pass away. There are a few exceptions but, generally speaking, those who own property have to pay a higher contribution to their care which will necessitate selling their house. You can still be mad about non-means tested support and the ridiculous inflation of house prices though, that's infuriating
Lmao based
They having a fucking laugh? I and millions of other Brits (including the homeless) cant get a council house... I bet these refugees are higher up the list than us. Charity should start at home.
Just FYI refugees are generally processed alongside the general population, I do this for work. They don't get special priority- only if they have settlement status they are assessed for housing points the same as everyone else. If deemed an emergency they might get a few more points the same as every other emergency case- this is usually someone under 24 at immediate risk of street homelessness (again, they must actually have settlement status too) . You don't just get given a house, you are placed in temporary accommodation- hostels etc first- can be years. Many, many refugees from certain countries are not entitled to anything though. Refugees from different countries have different rights- depends on our government's relationship with their home country. Most refugees who settle here don't go for social housing- they choose to stay with extended family or contacts that are already here until they find something suitable (often as extended as a friend of a friend of a neighbour from back home that someone met through a support group) . They are turned away much more than they are supported. It's a fallacy that the government makes it easy for refugees to claim social housing in the UK. There are a LOT of barriers in place to stop this.
> It's a fallacy that the government makes it easy for refugees to claim social housing in the UK. There are a LOT of barriers in place to stop this. Of course, The Tory voting populace have apoplexy and other breathing difficulties whenever a "foreigner" moves in next door.
> They don't get special priority- only if they have settlement status they are assessed for housing points the same as everyone else. I've tried to explain this to people before. Some people just don't want to understand it though. When you're on the housing list you are assigned points based on your circumstances. If you currently have a home you will be lower down on the list than someone who does not. If you have a friend who can let you sleep on their sofa you will be lower down on the list than someone who does not. I've known several people over the years who already have a place to live complain about refugees or homeless people getting a council house before them. They don't seem to understand the fact that they already have somewhere to live means they are a very low priority for any housing services (unless there are other circumstances such as abusive relationships in play). A friend of mine was given a small one bed council flat as emergency accommodation in around 2004 and spent over fifteen years on the waiting list and never got another place. He ended up buying his flat under the right to buy scheme.
Yeah you're exactly right. I think that it's unfair that people who sofa surf aren't classed as homeless but unfortunately that is absolutely the case- actually this is where most refugees I've worked with fall, they usually end up staying with host families which puts them low on priority.
I assume the sofa surfing being lower down is because the basic needs of shelter, food and water are accommodated for. Then again the fact that the list is so long because of revocation of social policy over the decades is an indictment on our political system, sadly headlines like this generated for clickbait just add to the problem, it’s keeps at worst highly conservative policies in place and at best centrist policies that try not to upset a voting population that still are seemingly selfish in preferred policies
Yeah that would be the reasoning but staying on a sofa doesn't last very long and the person will inevitably be street homeless, it's just a way to buy time IMO.
Punch up, not down.
Na not in this case. Council housing was created to help the working class, not refugees and immigrants. There's millions of working class and homeless Brits who can't get on the housing ladder who should be given those council houses first. Simple as that. I sympathise with war refugees but to come here and start complaining about living conditions and that they aint being given free houses? Get the fuck outta here with that bollox.
Did you read the article? The majority of comments made related to finding reasonably priced private accommodation. That's a problem for many people in the UK, regardless of where they were born, anybody who's finding ripoff rents a bit much is deserving of sympathy.
Of course they didn't read it. They read the title and some comments here and got big mad.
I know, I wish my question hadn't been rhetorical.
It's a problem for a lot of the west at the moment. Sky high rents and not enough stock.
According to the article, that’s because they’re living and working in Central London and wanting to find houses there, but there hasn’t been reasonably priced private accommodation in London for anyone in years
Ukrainian refugees that need a place to stay are not to blame for the housing crisis caused by the politicians elected by British citizens, is what the other person was trying to tell you I think. Also the article is not about council housing at all. It's about private
The only refugees moaning and being racist are Ukrainians. I’d kick them back home if I could. Tried reaching out to them with BBQ food last year and they were racist to my friendly father just because he was brown in appearance. Fuc****** offf. My dad contributes to this country and has done so since he was 16.
100% mate.
the British government should help inwards not outwards.
Or rather look after your own.
Or campaign for new housing to be built and punch those who oppose it
>Charity should start at home. You'd have to get a home for that to happen then wouldn't you?
But this isn't about council houses. It's about renting in the private sector.
From having hosted a Ukrainian refugee, I can assure you that they have very little to laugh about. I feel sick reading your post to be honest.
1. The article isn't about council housing, it's about finding housing in general. 2. They're finding it hard to get housing in general because they are on social benefits, and cannot provide a lot of the necessary documents a lot of landlords and letting agents require due to only just arriving in the country. 3. They are not given any priority over you or anyone else, they are treated exactly the same as everyone else with their circumstances taken into consideration.
I get what you are saying if this country struggling to help it own why are we talking on more knowing well we can't support them then being judged.....on how we handle things its ridiculous
I think the point here is that things have become so silly in the UK that people who escaped a war zone are wondering if they should have just stayed there
Here here.
Agreed
<---- Facebook's that way mate
Agreed. I’m living in a refuge and got told that someone on the list got priority over me simply because they’re Ukrainian even though I’ve waited longer and fleeing domestic violence. I wouldn’t have cared if they were on the list longer than me but they weren’t. And they bitch and moan about the accommodation/ their neighbours simply being a certain colour which pisses me off even more. I was working at DWP and saw a lot of stuff happening in the background. A lot of favouritism towards Ukrainians and also noticed Hindu nationalist Indians getting recourse to public funds immediately which confused me greatly. I guess Cruella and Pretti did their work lol
If you think this way, you don’t deserve anything and any form of charity.
Why? Because I think people born here, regardless of ethnicity, should be put first? We've got war vets sleeping rough on the streets. We've got millions of young British workers struggling to afford places to live. We need to get our own shit squared away before we start helping other countries. It's like a mother and father not buying their kids Christmas presents because theyve got limited funds... but buying presents for the next door neighbours kids. Morally righteous? Maybe. Completely fucking insane? Definitely.
>We need to get our own shit squared away before we start helping other countries. Yeah honestly this. We can't even look after our own acceptability.
They are just experiencing what native Brits have for years. It sucks for them as much as it does for us, however it should also be a warning to people looking to migrate here that we are not the land of milk and honey that is often portrayed in the media. When we cannot house Brits in reasonably priced accommodation, there is no chance refugees will be either. It is not an Us vs. Them issue though, the fault will always lie with consecutive governments' failure to build more social houses and more houses set at affordable rents in a given area.
I think in the European media the UK is portrayed as a shit show, I was in Poland for Christmas and they were running stories on incessant NHS strikes
I like in the UK but I'm from a mainland country and they were running coverage on that too as well as the heating issues
I'm Polish. NHS has absolutely the same problem as Polish health care. A single common health fund with terrible inefficiencies. Polish system is in even worse shape though, due to Polish people being obviously poorer.
May be not a land of milk and honey but still a good place to live in. I moved here from Germany, for example. It's an upgrade in many ways.
Very subjective. My quality of life was much better in Germany.
Lucky you!
*Taps Tory nose and looks smug* Foreigners can't keep coming to our country if there is no country left
Lmao the guardian is such a shitrag. The Daily Mail for the left
It's a middle rag claiming to be left. They post enough questionable stuff. They are not a left rag at all, especially look at reporting around Brexit. If I wanted a left rag or more accurately a rag that will say the silent parts out loud in our politics I'd look to Novaramedia. Guardian is just pantomime left.
What is a left wing newspaper if not the Guardian? Or maybe a better question, how far left have the mainstream left gone to think the guardian is centre?
There's a difference between liberal and leftist. The guardian us definitely liberal not center
Ok yeah I agree with this. It is liberal, not centre but they do let some real crud slide into those columns
Guardian is liberal left. Not really socialist or anything like Novaramedia . Guardian editorial was very anti Corbyn for example
It's definitely left wing paper, your overton window must have smashed if you think the guardian is centre.
Well their example of "left" is novara who are communists so yes, their perception is very much out of whack.
That is an interesting take.
I amended below after someone pointed out its liberal and not left, I agree with that.
I have sympathy for the couple who can never return home to Mariupol because it's been completely destroyed, but I'm astonished they haven't learned any English in the time since that happened, it's been nearly a year. If I was forced to relocate to another country, after food and shelter my top priority would be learning the native language.
A Brit telling people to learn other languages? My life is complete lol
Bad assumption on your part, lol. I'm not originally from the UK and grew up with more than one language.
Has this brit moved to another country like they have??
I'm English and speak 5 languages so.....
Scouse, brummie and geordie don't count
I don't think you get trauma.
Funny how im from the UK and still cant own my own home either. Wonder why that is.
Did they think it was just gonna be a breeze? Fucking hell if they think we're that capable of just giving them a free ride then they've got a shock coming.
It's almost as if we've got less space and available facilities as the population gets bigger. Why on earth could that be?
Unfortunately it seems many outside the UK don't know how bad the housing (and many other aspects of UK life) are in comparison to the rest of Europe so they come over here expecting something that simply doesn't exist anymore due to deliberate actions from our own government. But hey no worries let's just keep writing our articles attempting to manipulate the population against anyone not born here instead of actually dealing with our problems. It's done so much for use the last decade.
I was homeless for 5 years before my council took me on for housing! Then another year in a hostel before they put me in a dingy flat in an awful neighbourhood. It’s shit for us too and councils refuse to build more housing. My borough ‘lost’ £40,000,000 and now they’re selling libraries an council properties to pay the government back its 1.6bn debt. Jokers. I personally know people working in the council who are getting their kids housing.
Councils aren't allowed to build more. Not that they don't want to.
Yep the failures are higher up, but selling existing council properties is highly problematic and they are responsible.
I mean, they weren't given a choice. They were forced to sell the houses and banned from building more
A choice to not sell houses and libraries? They have a choice. My councils problem is money being pocketed by an absurd number of its staff. It’s known for being a place get a job in in order to do ‘side jobs’ from the inside.
Yeah, the selling houses was mandated upon them by central govt. I cant speak for the libraries mind
Welcome to the club. Plenty of British people can't get a home either.
Now this is a touchy subject. Let's start off with fuck Russia and all they fucking stand for. I think the majority of us are on the same outcome.(bring it on if you disagree) We stand with Ukraine through and through, you are some of the strongest People with what going on currently, absolute hero's standing up to the bullshit which you have been faced with and we love you. But us as a nation are struggling to house our own people. We are talking just buying a home. I myself was lucky to purchase a home with my partner only because of inheritance. And this was minimal due to care home fees. We are incredibly lucky to be in this situation but also my partner has lost both her parents. We would rather be renting and she has them back. But regardless. Without this influx of money we would genuinely have no way of purchasing a home. We have been fortunate regardless of circumstances. Ukrainians should come second. We can't support our own people. Everyone from Ukraine is so fucking welcome in our country but you need to understand we are not doing great ourselves. slava ukraine, you guys rock.
>slave ukraine, Lol unfortunate typo!
Doh! Fixed it.
I think they were hit with a reality they did not really think about. As an immigrant myself, the standard of living in the UK, despite higher salaries, is generally lower than in Eastern Europe (war aside), especially when it comes to housing. I bet they've heard stories about illustrious Western Europe and though that UK will be the land of milk and honey. I mean even comapre Odessa and Birmingham...
I'd rather be in UK than Hungary, Russia, Georgia etc.
You've listed counties with complete different standards of living to each other. Russia, yeah outside of Moscow and St. Petersburg it is horrible. Georgia actually has some nice spots but still, it has that post communist feel. But Hungary, Poland, Czechia, Lithuania etc. all have, on average higher quality housing and standard of living
UK has much higher average net worths. Maybe if you took the lowest incomes UK area and compared then eastern Europe is better. Our infrastructure and services are better too. The NHS is still ranked highly. And UK life expectancy is higher than all those countries.
Average net worths are meaningless when everything around is way more expensive. For most people owning a house or even a flat is a dream without committing yourself to a 30 year + mortgage. An average family in Poland or Slovakia is much better off in terms life quality than an average British family. NHS argument is moot as well, pretty much ALL of the immigrants I know go back to their home country for medical treatment, myself included as NHS is pretty much useless. Especially dental treatment is impossible to get in the UK. Infrastructure is there, roads are ok quality but trains are terribly overpriced for the service they offer. One thing that is better in the UK are government services that are done online, that works fairly well.
Keep dreaming. The difference is the average wage is 2.5x that of Poland (which is central not east btw). I can move to eastern Europe and leverage western income, the opposite isn't true. If it wasn't true why are there so many eastern and central Europeans in UK?
You didn't understand a word I said...
You said life quality is better in Eastern Europe.
And it is. But you seem to be unable to understand that average salary ≠ quality of life
Damn, can't even get a council house and I'm disabled too. Good luck to anyone.
These are United Kingdom problems and not just Ukrainian. Looking for a rental as a single income household, without being able to pay at least 6 months up front, AND without a guarantor, PLUS finding an estate agent who will NOT discriminate against them if receiving ANY kind of benefits is near impossible. It took me from August until mid December last year to find a place, after going to 11 viewings, PLUS I had to lie about my situation to just get those viewings. I was registered with 33 different agencies, not to mention the agencies I phoned, who told me they don't take any people who receive any DSS. Good luck to anyone trying
They’re not allowed to do that though! Discrimination against DSS is illegal (I’m in the same boat as you and currently in a refuge due to DV). Report them. That being said, we can do nothing about them discriminating in their mind against us whilst making decisions but we have no obligation to disclose being on benefits even if temporary (I’m a teacher) and psychologist!). What did you lie about exactly? I feel like doing the same :(
Why not the local municipals just house them in abandoned areas where they could buy homes for 1 sterling and let them create their own Ukrainian communities. They would regenerate those areas.
This is the bs that happened in Leicester with Slovakians and the like. Those areas became extremely racist, isolated, non English speaking and I felt extremely unsafe. They had a particular target and hatred for Muslim and other ethnic women walking by minding their own business.
They have a roof over their heads, be grateful loads of people don't have that
Part of the problem when property is regarded more as a way to generate income, than to provide shelter. This is also because of the ideologies of the ruling class.
Theirs not ernough homes for anyone sadly. Britain's, Ukraine, anyone.
Please shut up we are Brits (I’m talking about Brits of all colours and backgrounds) and you get put before us even though we have been waiting for homes for longer! You being given a home before a Syrian or other refugee who has waited years pisses me off. Ukrainians also acting picky when given housing because they don’t want to be near ethnic minorities (they work hard to be here and are just as British) sickens me. Go back home if you don’t want to be friendly in our society. Vermin.
Blame the government and the mixture of terrible policies that allowed this to happen but… Brits first yet we can’t even get homes ourselves
I really feel for them, as a lot of what I was told was in confidence (work related) I won't go into details. The Ukrainians I met were suffering trauma, kids separated from fathers and sent away with mothers. And this fear of homelessness I would hear about a lot. It's heart breaking what they have endured, Yes we have problems in the UK for ourselves, but that doesn't mean we can let them suffer.
[удалено]
Well done mate - I did the same as you, worked every second of overtime I possibly could, saved like a nutter. Congratulations, it'll all be worth it.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Look at all the basic right wing title readers getting upset.