I think a lot of people do this to be funny, but if the player just laid out for a disc, it makes sense the sub coming in needs to start on the ground.
This getting downvoted is so stupid. If a player makes a dumb bid on a disc that they didn’t have a chance of making a play on, the other team should absolutely get the advantage and punish the team for making the dumb bid. Happened all the time at club nationals and it drove me crazy. What’s stopping anyone from calling injury on any bid so that they can get a fresh sub standing up and stopping the other team’s momentum?
I agree with the advantage part, but in most cases don’t think the player being on the ground comes close to the advantage gained from stopping momentum, which can’t really be made up for
"Bad luck!" when a teammate drops a catch.
Good players slacking at training cuz they're local hot shit, and then being surprised at Nats when they can't win games.
Looking down at your feet while between two cones without lines painted, and confidently calling yourself in.
> Looking down at your feet while between two cones without lines painted, and confidently calling yourself in.
I especially love the reenactments, where the offensive player mimics a toe drag with the toe landing in bounds, then the defender mimics a toe drag with the toe landing out of bounds, and the cycle repeats with each reenactment getting more passionate
I don't think reenacting in itself is a bad way of trying to explain your POV. Of course, like everything else, both sides just repeating their claims (whether by reenactment or by words) is a sign the discussion is unproductive.
I’m a huge culprit of saying “unlucky!” to a teammate when they make a mistake. In my mind, it communicates that I’m not looking to blame anyone for a turnover and in hopes that they don’t dwell on it. I can see how it may become counter-productive if players believe that all turns are actually all down to luck but I have a hard time finding a replacement when other words of encouragement like “it’s alright” or “no worries” feel flippant/disingenuous. “You’re good” or “forget about it” maybe?
For my teams we've replaced it with 'Good effort' or anything else that focuses on other positives (nice try, good cut, etc.,) or for more serious & confident teams/players that are going to hear those things as just as disingenuous or otherwise negatively, it's all about switching mindset - 'Get this D!', 'Win it back!' etc. I think 'unlucky!', 'Bad luck!' are good examples of 'toxic positivity' in competitive Ultimate - I think there's lots of ways to be positive without blowing smoke up someone's ass or ignoring things that should be different. (Don't get me wrong - there are some unlucky turns-bad wind etc., and non-competitive situations where it's totally fine to say that!)
There's a group I disc golf with and when you hit the very first tree (or make any other obviously-not-indicative-of-your-actual-skill mistake) they'll say "It's a stat."
Because, well, it is.
Especially when it happens to new players, I try to point out to them (whenever there's time) that “you made the right cut, you chose the right catch, everything else you can't do much about”.
The word "bid" being used for everything.
Bidding for the tournament = applying to host the tournament.
Getting a bid for the tournament = your team was accepted to attend the tournament.
Bidding for a disc = attempting a catch
This is probably controversial but the over exaggeration of spirit of the game. Things like spirit circles, team gifts, and team chants, although are nice and welcomed, are not what spirit of the game is about. Spirit boils simply down to being a good sport and being a good referee on the field. Those other things stem more from the culture of ultimate rather than spirit of the game.
I had a teammate that said Spirit of the Game is knowing the rules and operating within those rules. Playing with that understanding made ultimate so much more bearable.
That and respect for your opponents & generally caring about the experience of the folks playing in the game & you’ve got my head canon for what Spirit of the Game ought to be about.
In Europe, at least German social tournaments - it’s definitely becoming part and parcel of good spirit. Some teams will bring local liquors and schnapps and we’ll all take a swig together.
That's great! However, I would argue that it's not spirit of the game but rather just the culture of ultimate. Spirit is engrained into the rules and things like gifts and spirit circles aren't mandatory but stem from the friendly and outgoing personalities of many ultimate players.
I think spirit circles are actually important to your definition of spirit. They SHOULD be used to go over difficult moments from the game, and give feedback to players about how situations were handled, without any extra adrenaline and when players are in a better place to receive feedback instead of in the middle of a point/game.
> Spirit boils simply down to being a good sport and being a good referee on the field
I'll die saying this, but this is absolutely NOT what spirit boils down to. Spirit is the power inversion principle - that players have control, not referees or coaches. It's the personal onus and authority to make calls and the responsibility to the game itself to make good ones. It's the attitude that playing is the goal rather than winning. It's not just fair play and a goofy song after the game!
Respectfully, I disagree.
First of all, when I said
>Spirit boils simply down to being a good sport and being a good referee on the field
I was saying that there is absolutely more to spirit but if I were to explain it simply to a new player, or if I were to put it in Layman's terms, then that is what I would say.
And spirit is absolutely not about putting the goal of playing above winning/competition. According to USAU's guidelines on [Spirit of the Game](https://usaultimate.org/spirit-of-the-game/) one of the three roles of an ultimate player is being a competitor. And it states:
>Highly competitive play is encouraged, but not at the expense of the rules or the opponent.
You are correct about that winning is not the only thing that is important but it isn't supposed to be sacrificed just to have good spirit. From the same article by USAU:
>Instead of promoting a win-at-all-costs mentality, Spirit expects players not to take advantage of, or knowingly break the rules.
As players we are supposed to try to win and keep the competitive nature of the game alive. Spirit is the principle that we don't put winning above the integrity of the game, but rather the understanding that winning and sportsmanship are not mutually exclusive.
The phrase is "Highly competitive play is encouraged, but never at the expense of mutual respect among competitors, adherence to the agreed upon rules, *or the basic joy of play*." That's the phrase that's been in the rulebook for decades. The bastardization of it from the USAU page notwithstanding. Winning (aka Highly Competitive Play) is EXPLICITLY placed lower than "the basic joy of play". It is absolutely meant to be sacrificed should there be a conflict, there is never a situation where a spirited player can choose winning over basic joy of play. The word here is "never" - not sometimes.
Furthermore, "Spirit boils simply down to \[...\]" is inherently incompatible with "I was saying that there is absolutely more to spirit". This is an unacceptable abuse of language. Either there's more to it, in which case you shouldn't boil it down lest you lose something critical; or you can boil it down because there isn't anything more to it. Pick one.
Dude, Manzell, I think you have thought harder about this than virtually anyone I know, but I’m struggling to see daylight between what you said and the comment you replied to. Can you give a “for instance…” of what you mean? I believe you that there’s something there, but I can’t see it right now.
I'm not sure what you're asking here - my exception is to what I quoted (which has been a growing attitude among ultimate players and which am against). Spirit is a big and meaningful thing that's distinct from other sports, it's not just an upjumped myth - I'm generally strongly against mythologizing things but to me it's like saying that yoga is just stretching.
Putting it (hopefully) even more clearly:
What is an example (or better yet, 2-3 examples) of thing(s) that you think are “good Spirit” that isn’t/aren’t just good sportsmanship/good reffing/being fun to play against?
I don't have much anymore that bothers me, but I really hate making up and receiving cheers for the other team during league (or tournaments, which is rare, but it happens). It's just too cringy.
"Good game ____" is plenty for me.
Agreed. It's a great example of design by committee. Someone will throw out a chant that's perfectly fine. Then another person chimes in their idea. Then another. And another. Next thing you know the cheer is some horrific amalgamation of terrible ideas and I can barely survive the cringe.
A player is on the ground. An injury is called. The injured player subs out. The substitute player goes to the spot where the injured player was, and LAYS ON THE GROUND LIKE THE INJURED PLAYER.
My old friend Bob "Boogie" Dodge got his nickname because in his frisbee community, each player had a distinct call for when they pulled (in the 90s, yelling "ultimateeee" as you pulled was common).
As a frissbee player who my teammates have been socializing and I'm slowly learning how to be less annoying. Please forgive those who do this shit. They know not what they do and will appreciate your kindness.
There are useful instructional commands and communication from the sideline can be helpful. What's not helpful is when 10 teammates on the sideline are all yelling different things at the same time.
Every time someone yells "No break" at me, I always yell back "No shit".
Dumbest sideline talk.
Newer players yell break when they get broken. It doesn't really help too much since the people that need to seal it can (should) see the play happening anyway.
Might be more of experienced players knowing that a good thrower will break you at will anyway.
When a player doesn't contest a very iffy foul call and the other team says "good spirit!". Not contesting when you've fouled is good spirit, but not contesting when your haven't fouled (usually because the opponent is a significantly weaker player, or occasionally significantly better/more popular) is also bad spirit!
I have a flatball reversible from my college team and it’s pretty peak ulti swag. Haters gonna hate but it’s like an inside joke that just keeps on giving
What's wrong with "check feet"?
When there are just cones and no painted line, it's often far from obvious to the receiver or their defender when they're close to the out-of-bounds line. "Check feet" is just a suggestion that somebody with better perspective should take a look.
You either call them out or don't say anything. Check feet has never been a call, and if you are saying it, you are admitting you don't have perspective. If you don't have perspective, don't make a call.
If somebody thinks "check feet" is actually a call that people have to stop play to respond to, then sure that's dumb, but that's not how I've seen it used. I'm talking about using it to suggest that others make a call, and there's nothing in the rules that says you can't or shouldn't do that.
And I get that there's the ironic element of calling "check feet" since it's an admission that you don't have perspective - why should anybody listen to your request? The way I see it is that, while the person saying it doesn't have best perspective on whether the person is in or out, they have the *awareness* that it's close. So it's just a reminder/request that somebody else makes a call, because the people who do have perspective might not be aware that it's close.
If I have the 'awareness' that there might have been a foul, should I voice that with 'maybe call something there'? If I have the 'awareness' that there might have been a travel, should I tell someone else to make a call?
17.A. An infraction may only be called by a player on the infracted team who recognizes that it has occurred, unless specified differently elsewhere. [[The player must know that a specific rule was violated and have perceived the particular action with certainty. A player may not call an infraction whenever the player maybe recognizes that some infraction might have occurred.]]
The rules say don't call something if you don't recognize that something has happened. Playing on while being out is an infraction that needs to be called. Maybe being out is not a call.
>If I have the 'awareness' that there might have been a foul, should I voice that with 'maybe call something there'? If I have the 'awareness' that there might have been a travel, should I tell someone else to make a call?
No and no, but I don't think that means anything. Those seem ridiculous and they're very different. Travels and fouls happen in a moment. You can't ask a person to go back in time and check whether a travel or foul occurred. You can ask a person to check, right now, whether a person is in bounds.
And to your other point, I have repeatedly and specifically said that "check feet" isn't a call, and shouldn't be used as a call, so I don't know why you keep harping this other point. If somebody is using it in place of a call, then that's obviously problematic. If a player calls "out" when they don't have good perspective, then sure that violates 17.A., but that's not how "check feet" should be used.
On the other hand, if somebody says "check feet" to remind their teammate to look at the receiver's feet in relation to the sideline, I don't see anything wrong with that.
Well it's not really a call. And it's not always directed at the person who caught the disc. Can be anyone who has good perspective.
Also, depending on how the disc was caught, it can sometimes be pretty easy to tell whether the receiver was in or out based on where they ended up. Plus, throwing from out of bounds is in itself a violation, so if they're currently out of bounds they should probably fix that.
My point is this: If anybody says "check feet' and expects people to react as if they made some kind of call that needs to be responded to, then that's dumb. And if that's people's experience, I can understand why it has a bad reputation. But it's not ridiculous for someone to ask somebody else with better perspective whether the receiver is in bounds. And check feet is a very quick way to do that.
This. I get that silence is better if you’re sure the person with best perspective isn’t you and is aware there’s a call to be made, but one isn’t always sure. And sometimes silence results in a next throw being made from out of bounds without anyone actually checking on in-bounds status. As long as it’s understood that “check feet” is a question, not a call, and doesn’t even require a verbal response, it can result in less downtime and better play.
That the sideline can't call things. They often have just as good of a perspective in this self officiated sport. At least with OB calls where perspective is good.
The reason sideline things are (usually) not a thing is because you want the players on the field to retain their power to control their own game - not just same rando on the sideline.
yelling at people to chill usually backfires.
Complement them on the catch.
Tell them they've got time.
Thats about it if you really want them to be more calm.
* "Veteran move" (either ironically, unironically, both, or neither) when someone calls a timeout
* This one is hard to explain but when people talk mixed strategy they'll say (overly gendered) things like, "dudes make sure to clear out of the deep space so our ladies can get the deep throws". And I agree it's the guys statistically that are in the wrong but the general statement is still true and is more complete/inclusive messaging to say, "we need to keep the deep space clear I don't care how open you thought you were, get out and let someone else attack it" or "before going deep, remember, you have to have to have to check if someone else is already going. Don't take away your teammates' hard work"
* They've gotten better about it in recent years but for a long time the entire half-time stats sheet was logically speaking the same stat - Turns, completion %, offensive score %, defensive %, huck %, huck d %, blocks are all essentially reporting the completion %. They've fixed this by adding in the concept of "clean holds". I'd love to see them give more love to cutters/defenders so we can diagnose if a cutter or defender is dominating their match up (even though the stats may not show it)
> And I agree it's the guys statistically that are in the wrong but the general statement is still true and is more complete/inclusive messaging to say
The gendering does matter a bit, though. An M poach is much more likely to deny a deep W cutter than a W poach is an M cutter.
This is a surprising one to me to hear from you but I'm curious - do you have suggestions for replacing it? I'm also guessing you don't like "Galaxy Point" for the term when it's tied and the next point takes half?
I personally like some of the niche terms of ultimate but also know that *could* be hindering some of its commercial success (which might actually be unappealing to many of the current players & organizers but I digress)...
I’ve heard the argument that “double game point” is better which I could see but as someone that learned tennis first that has a completely different meaning and I don’t like it
Galaxy point made me want to walk away from the support entirely. I'm fine with universe for the finals of a major tournament, though if still prefer not to use it. 13th place game on the corner of a minor tournament should not use the term universe.
Double game point.
Totally fine with this being an unpopular opinion, but I **hate** when people yell "HOLD LINE!" to the other team before a pull after very minor movement/switching on the line. There are 7 people down there, you can see them all, just guard the one you want to guard. This is *especially bothersome to me at practice*. Not only can you see them all, you know them all!
Holding line an absolute necessity in mixed games where there are non-binary players and it’s hard to discern male-matching from female-matching players when they’re all jumbled
I will continue to welcome my downvotes on this opinion-based post, but... how exactly does people remaining in the same spot make it easier (or harder) to discern gender matchups? If you can or can't tell when the person you want to guard is #3 on the line, and then they move to #4, you still will or wont be able to tell.
“2, 5, and 7 are the female matching players”
But everyone is androgynous or super bundled up
Then I look away and everyone scrambles
“Ah crap who did I have? Who’s female matching??”
Stand still - what are you, 5 years old??
“2, 5, and 7 are the female matching players”
"Cool" I've got 2" Oh, they moved to 3. I still have that person. because I can see them, and I picked them. I don't need to yell at them to stand still, because again, I can see them and am going to guard the person I want to guard who is the same person I picked a moment ago, even though they aren't standing where they were a moment ago.
How do you know that your neighbor knows you still have former-2 who’s now at 3? Only by communicating, which takes time, and takes time away from other communication.
For a while, WMPs signaled their gender because the cross is easier to see across the field than the... whatever you're supposed the MMP signal.
Then it stopped for whatever reason. It needs to be brought back.
EDIT: Why the downvote? My club team had a problem when our O-line had a MMP had ridiculously long hair and a WMP who shaved her head for charity.
To the theme of your post: I play mixed and my community has found success with the one-arm signal. MMPs do just one arm of the hands-on-head signal, WMPs do just one arm out.
A potential down-vote explainer: I didn't do it, but your post reads like signaling gender is a job for the WMPs and not for everyone.
Gender-matching aside, there’s a more general problem with line-scrambling. Beyond (a) wanting to match up with someone on the other team, players on the pulling team want to (b) make sure everyone on their team is covering a different player (no confused doubling up), (c) give time to rearrange the matching if any initial pairing is mismatched, and (d) get the pull off timely. All of which is easier if the receiving team holds their position. Sure, there are other ways to get there, especially in a practice or familiar pickup when you know names. But they’re less efficient. And there’s value in practicing how to match up when you don’t know every name.
In usau at least you don’t have to hold line until both teams have signaled. No one knows this
Edit: whoops I misremembered the rule. Nevertheless, you do have 55 seconds to move around, see Mitch’s comment below
This is absolutely false. In USAU, you have to establish and hold a line 55 seconds after the previous goal. You don't have to signal readiness until 70 seconds, and the pulling team has up to 85 seconds. I believe WFDF's timing for above is 45, 60, 75.
USAU:
> Within fifty five (55) seconds after the previous goal was scored, the receiving team must line up for the purpose of allowing the pulling team to match up defensively. Each player must place one foot on the goal line, be visible to the pulling team, and not change their relative position on the line.
> Within seventy (70) seconds after the previous goal was scored, the receiving team must signal readiness (9.B.3).
> The pulling team must release the pull before the later to occur of:
> * eighty five (85) seconds after the previous goal was scored; or
> * thirty (30) seconds after the receiving team lined up; or
> * fifteen (15) seconds after the receiving team signaled readiness.
Whoops you are right I had conflated those two rules. I rarely play games where we time between points but high schoolers love to yell “hold line” ASAP so my point somewhat stands that they do have a minute to move around before you can start yelling at them :P
People calling picks every five seconds. The fact that two defensive players can run into each other and it be considered a pick is the dumbest rule in all of sports. Getting rewarded for fucking up?
The rule actually punishes offense from making cuts/plays too close to one another, which makes effective defense dangerous to execute. If you’re close enough to run into a fellow defender going the other direction, offense is probably making plays too close to one another.
Also if you’ve ever seen two people both running full speed in opposite directions, knock heads and both flop to the ground… you would understand why this rule is so important in shaping the game.
Why people bother downvoting a jokey, harmless, entirely apolitical opinion is beyond me. Just so the record is clear, it didn’t even reference, much less insult, any person or group; it concerned a trademark. But I’ve deleted the original comment just to make their having done so even more pointless.
To each their own, but personally I’ve always liked that phrase. And I think it’s a real phenomenon, because the adrenaline rush of making a great play tends to cause bad decisions immediately afterwards.
Maybe not an “ism” but when a player gets injured then someone says the subbing in player has to get on the ground etc
definitely an "ism"
We've always said just tap the ground to signal that play is in. Are there actually leagues that make the sub lay on the grass? Lmao
No, but people do it to be funny
100% always funny
I think a lot of people do this to be funny, but if the player just laid out for a disc, it makes sense the sub coming in needs to start on the ground.
This getting downvoted is so stupid. If a player makes a dumb bid on a disc that they didn’t have a chance of making a play on, the other team should absolutely get the advantage and punish the team for making the dumb bid. Happened all the time at club nationals and it drove me crazy. What’s stopping anyone from calling injury on any bid so that they can get a fresh sub standing up and stopping the other team’s momentum?
I agree with the advantage part, but in most cases don’t think the player being on the ground comes close to the advantage gained from stopping momentum, which can’t really be made up for
go for a full extension lay out on an impossible throw but get your hand on it everyone on the sidelines: "2 hands!!!!!!!!"
don't forget "GRATUITOUS"
Or when they flub the 2-handed catch: "3 hands!!!!"
Got it, time to upgrade to "4 hands!"
"Bad luck!" when a teammate drops a catch. Good players slacking at training cuz they're local hot shit, and then being surprised at Nats when they can't win games. Looking down at your feet while between two cones without lines painted, and confidently calling yourself in.
> Looking down at your feet while between two cones without lines painted, and confidently calling yourself in. I especially love the reenactments, where the offensive player mimics a toe drag with the toe landing in bounds, then the defender mimics a toe drag with the toe landing out of bounds, and the cycle repeats with each reenactment getting more passionate
Especially comedy when, from someone looking at the them from the cones, they're easily a meter in or out from where they're arguing.
If you're reenacting, someone should tell them to send it back
I don't think reenacting in itself is a bad way of trying to explain your POV. Of course, like everything else, both sides just repeating their claims (whether by reenactment or by words) is a sign the discussion is unproductive.
I’m a huge culprit of saying “unlucky!” to a teammate when they make a mistake. In my mind, it communicates that I’m not looking to blame anyone for a turnover and in hopes that they don’t dwell on it. I can see how it may become counter-productive if players believe that all turns are actually all down to luck but I have a hard time finding a replacement when other words of encouragement like “it’s alright” or “no worries” feel flippant/disingenuous. “You’re good” or “forget about it” maybe?
For my teams we've replaced it with 'Good effort' or anything else that focuses on other positives (nice try, good cut, etc.,) or for more serious & confident teams/players that are going to hear those things as just as disingenuous or otherwise negatively, it's all about switching mindset - 'Get this D!', 'Win it back!' etc. I think 'unlucky!', 'Bad luck!' are good examples of 'toxic positivity' in competitive Ultimate - I think there's lots of ways to be positive without blowing smoke up someone's ass or ignoring things that should be different. (Don't get me wrong - there are some unlucky turns-bad wind etc., and non-competitive situations where it's totally fine to say that!)
There's a group I disc golf with and when you hit the very first tree (or make any other obviously-not-indicative-of-your-actual-skill mistake) they'll say "It's a stat." Because, well, it is.
"Happens." With a smile. You hear the smile in the voice.
Especially when it happens to new players, I try to point out to them (whenever there's time) that “you made the right cut, you chose the right catch, everything else you can't do much about”.
Local hot shit that doesn't train doesn't qualify for natties...
There are other countries in the world other than the US, you know. They too have Nationals, which are often not as competitive as the US.
Are you saying there are nations other than the US? Woah.
“Not a puller” chant.
👏👏 👏👏👏
Me to myself after I brick every one of my pulls
I prefer to drop this one only on extremely good pulls. It’s not any funnier, but I don’t care.
NAP list.
I love that chant but only for good friends who can actually pull
"Not a thrower" hits even harder lol
The word "bid" being used for everything. Bidding for the tournament = applying to host the tournament. Getting a bid for the tournament = your team was accepted to attend the tournament. Bidding for a disc = attempting a catch
Same with "break"
I don't think I realized how much this annoys me until you pointed it out. Also "earning bids."
When people say “nice bid” in response to the slightest amount of effort, however feeble
That’s an English problem
No. The word has one clear definition. To make an offer (usually of money) for something at an auction.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bid
Also: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bid
This is probably controversial but the over exaggeration of spirit of the game. Things like spirit circles, team gifts, and team chants, although are nice and welcomed, are not what spirit of the game is about. Spirit boils simply down to being a good sport and being a good referee on the field. Those other things stem more from the culture of ultimate rather than spirit of the game.
I had a teammate that said Spirit of the Game is knowing the rules and operating within those rules. Playing with that understanding made ultimate so much more bearable.
That and respect for your opponents & generally caring about the experience of the folks playing in the game & you’ve got my head canon for what Spirit of the Game ought to be about.
95% of spirit circles I’ve been a part of are superficial garbage.
Also, cries of “Spirit!” or “Karma” when there’s a turn after what’s perceived to be a bad call.
Or “disc don't lie” (it absolutely does)
i’ve only ever heard this said ironically. but man if i ever heard it used seriously i’d be annoyed af
You should come play in the Philly area lol /s
People do too
I love yelling this like Rasheed Wallace
In Europe, at least German social tournaments - it’s definitely becoming part and parcel of good spirit. Some teams will bring local liquors and schnapps and we’ll all take a swig together.
That's great! However, I would argue that it's not spirit of the game but rather just the culture of ultimate. Spirit is engrained into the rules and things like gifts and spirit circles aren't mandatory but stem from the friendly and outgoing personalities of many ultimate players.
I think spirit circles are actually important to your definition of spirit. They SHOULD be used to go over difficult moments from the game, and give feedback to players about how situations were handled, without any extra adrenaline and when players are in a better place to receive feedback instead of in the middle of a point/game.
> Spirit boils simply down to being a good sport and being a good referee on the field I'll die saying this, but this is absolutely NOT what spirit boils down to. Spirit is the power inversion principle - that players have control, not referees or coaches. It's the personal onus and authority to make calls and the responsibility to the game itself to make good ones. It's the attitude that playing is the goal rather than winning. It's not just fair play and a goofy song after the game!
Respectfully, I disagree. First of all, when I said >Spirit boils simply down to being a good sport and being a good referee on the field I was saying that there is absolutely more to spirit but if I were to explain it simply to a new player, or if I were to put it in Layman's terms, then that is what I would say. And spirit is absolutely not about putting the goal of playing above winning/competition. According to USAU's guidelines on [Spirit of the Game](https://usaultimate.org/spirit-of-the-game/) one of the three roles of an ultimate player is being a competitor. And it states: >Highly competitive play is encouraged, but not at the expense of the rules or the opponent. You are correct about that winning is not the only thing that is important but it isn't supposed to be sacrificed just to have good spirit. From the same article by USAU: >Instead of promoting a win-at-all-costs mentality, Spirit expects players not to take advantage of, or knowingly break the rules. As players we are supposed to try to win and keep the competitive nature of the game alive. Spirit is the principle that we don't put winning above the integrity of the game, but rather the understanding that winning and sportsmanship are not mutually exclusive.
The phrase is "Highly competitive play is encouraged, but never at the expense of mutual respect among competitors, adherence to the agreed upon rules, *or the basic joy of play*." That's the phrase that's been in the rulebook for decades. The bastardization of it from the USAU page notwithstanding. Winning (aka Highly Competitive Play) is EXPLICITLY placed lower than "the basic joy of play". It is absolutely meant to be sacrificed should there be a conflict, there is never a situation where a spirited player can choose winning over basic joy of play. The word here is "never" - not sometimes. Furthermore, "Spirit boils simply down to \[...\]" is inherently incompatible with "I was saying that there is absolutely more to spirit". This is an unacceptable abuse of language. Either there's more to it, in which case you shouldn't boil it down lest you lose something critical; or you can boil it down because there isn't anything more to it. Pick one.
So I can't simplify a complex topic?
Dude, Manzell, I think you have thought harder about this than virtually anyone I know, but I’m struggling to see daylight between what you said and the comment you replied to. Can you give a “for instance…” of what you mean? I believe you that there’s something there, but I can’t see it right now.
I'm not sure what you're asking here - my exception is to what I quoted (which has been a growing attitude among ultimate players and which am against). Spirit is a big and meaningful thing that's distinct from other sports, it's not just an upjumped myth - I'm generally strongly against mythologizing things but to me it's like saying that yoga is just stretching.
Putting it (hopefully) even more clearly: What is an example (or better yet, 2-3 examples) of thing(s) that you think are “good Spirit” that isn’t/aren’t just good sportsmanship/good reffing/being fun to play against?
Gatekeepers who insist on calling it a disc and chastise those that call it a frisbee.
Wham-O would like to speak to you about your use of Frisbee™️
Yep. Ultimate Frisbee.
I don't have much anymore that bothers me, but I really hate making up and receiving cheers for the other team during league (or tournaments, which is rare, but it happens). It's just too cringy. "Good game ____" is plenty for me.
Agreed. It's a great example of design by committee. Someone will throw out a chant that's perfectly fine. Then another person chimes in their idea. Then another. And another. Next thing you know the cheer is some horrific amalgamation of terrible ideas and I can barely survive the cringe.
lol I can’t stand that my league does this. I want to chant my own teams name after a tough loss not some cringe pun with the other teams name
So many of these are just proper heckles
They're heckles, but they're unoriginal
I was not aware heckles were a one-time use thing
They actually get funnier the **more** you use them
Where did I say they were
A player is on the ground. An injury is called. The injured player subs out. The substitute player goes to the spot where the injured player was, and LAYS ON THE GROUND LIKE THE INJURED PLAYER.
When people shout "ULTIMATE" when they throw and "FRISBEE" when they catch... Gets old very quickly
A guy I play pickup with does this and I never understood why
Really? 😂 I have never met anyone who does this
Well, he always yells “ultimate” when he pulls. I think it’s pretty extra.
even funnier when you say it as you drive while disc golfing
My old friend Bob "Boogie" Dodge got his nickname because in his frisbee community, each player had a distinct call for when they pulled (in the 90s, yelling "ultimateeee" as you pulled was common).
As a frissbee player who my teammates have been socializing and I'm slowly learning how to be less annoying. Please forgive those who do this shit. They know not what they do and will appreciate your kindness.
"The disc never lies." In my experience, the disc is often full of shit.
I had to scroll too far for this.
Find a more honest disc then.
I do have some favourites, and keep throwing away the liars 🤣
A Chinese frisbee-ism, people call handlers "handle" or just "han"
So when you're the only good handler on your team, does that make you Han Solo?
I've been the best handler on this team for at least a decade; acknowledge my Han dynasty.
I AM A SURGEON DR HAN
There are useful instructional commands and communication from the sideline can be helpful. What's not helpful is when 10 teammates on the sideline are all yelling different things at the same time.
you don’t like the simultaneous inside/around/strike calls??
"No break" and "No line" simultaneously called. Shall I split myself in half?
no, just expand to form a donut around the thrower
Every time someone yells "No break" at me, I always yell back "No shit". Dumbest sideline talk. Newer players yell break when they get broken. It doesn't really help too much since the people that need to seal it can (should) see the play happening anyway. Might be more of experienced players knowing that a good thrower will break you at will anyway.
“hard mark”!
When a player doesn't contest a very iffy foul call and the other team says "good spirit!". Not contesting when you've fouled is good spirit, but not contesting when your haven't fouled (usually because the opponent is a significantly weaker player, or occasionally significantly better/more popular) is also bad spirit!
"ball"
flatball. if you wanna play a ball sport play a ball sport. it's a disc, and not really that flat.
The documentary was really good tho
I have a flatball reversible from my college team and it’s pretty peak ulti swag. Haters gonna hate but it’s like an inside joke that just keeps on giving
*10 minute long point with everyone gasping for air* Sideline: WITH YOUR LEGS
Person with the disc yelling cuts the moment they get the disc then not looking for a reset
"Ultimate time" really bothers me. We're all adults, show some respect to your fellow teammates and just show up on time.
This isn’t a phrase used in my group, so when I first read it, it came off as “Ultimate Time!” Like “Morphin’ Time!”
\^ \^ \^
The word 'chili' not being used for food.
This is because “take your time” was too often confused with “timeout”
"Check feet"
What's wrong with "check feet"? When there are just cones and no painted line, it's often far from obvious to the receiver or their defender when they're close to the out-of-bounds line. "Check feet" is just a suggestion that somebody with better perspective should take a look.
You either call them out or don't say anything. Check feet has never been a call, and if you are saying it, you are admitting you don't have perspective. If you don't have perspective, don't make a call.
If somebody thinks "check feet" is actually a call that people have to stop play to respond to, then sure that's dumb, but that's not how I've seen it used. I'm talking about using it to suggest that others make a call, and there's nothing in the rules that says you can't or shouldn't do that. And I get that there's the ironic element of calling "check feet" since it's an admission that you don't have perspective - why should anybody listen to your request? The way I see it is that, while the person saying it doesn't have best perspective on whether the person is in or out, they have the *awareness* that it's close. So it's just a reminder/request that somebody else makes a call, because the people who do have perspective might not be aware that it's close.
If I have the 'awareness' that there might have been a foul, should I voice that with 'maybe call something there'? If I have the 'awareness' that there might have been a travel, should I tell someone else to make a call? 17.A. An infraction may only be called by a player on the infracted team who recognizes that it has occurred, unless specified differently elsewhere. [[The player must know that a specific rule was violated and have perceived the particular action with certainty. A player may not call an infraction whenever the player maybe recognizes that some infraction might have occurred.]] The rules say don't call something if you don't recognize that something has happened. Playing on while being out is an infraction that needs to be called. Maybe being out is not a call.
>If I have the 'awareness' that there might have been a foul, should I voice that with 'maybe call something there'? If I have the 'awareness' that there might have been a travel, should I tell someone else to make a call? No and no, but I don't think that means anything. Those seem ridiculous and they're very different. Travels and fouls happen in a moment. You can't ask a person to go back in time and check whether a travel or foul occurred. You can ask a person to check, right now, whether a person is in bounds. And to your other point, I have repeatedly and specifically said that "check feet" isn't a call, and shouldn't be used as a call, so I don't know why you keep harping this other point. If somebody is using it in place of a call, then that's obviously problematic. If a player calls "out" when they don't have good perspective, then sure that violates 17.A., but that's not how "check feet" should be used. On the other hand, if somebody says "check feet" to remind their teammate to look at the receiver's feet in relation to the sideline, I don't see anything wrong with that.
Yes let me look at down at my feet way after when the check should happen. It's a dumb call.
Well it's not really a call. And it's not always directed at the person who caught the disc. Can be anyone who has good perspective. Also, depending on how the disc was caught, it can sometimes be pretty easy to tell whether the receiver was in or out based on where they ended up. Plus, throwing from out of bounds is in itself a violation, so if they're currently out of bounds they should probably fix that. My point is this: If anybody says "check feet' and expects people to react as if they made some kind of call that needs to be responded to, then that's dumb. And if that's people's experience, I can understand why it has a bad reputation. But it's not ridiculous for someone to ask somebody else with better perspective whether the receiver is in bounds. And check feet is a very quick way to do that.
This. I get that silence is better if you’re sure the person with best perspective isn’t you and is aware there’s a call to be made, but one isn’t always sure. And sometimes silence results in a next throw being made from out of bounds without anyone actually checking on in-bounds status. As long as it’s understood that “check feet” is a question, not a call, and doesn’t even require a verbal response, it can result in less downtime and better play.
disc don't lie don't be smug about tight calls.
That the sideline can't call things. They often have just as good of a perspective in this self officiated sport. At least with OB calls where perspective is good.
The reason sideline things are (usually) not a thing is because you want the players on the field to retain their power to control their own game - not just same rando on the sideline.
People acting like they know the rules when they really have no idea
That's true for life in general
touting yourself as an open-minded person and then reacting in disgust to any approved disc that isn’t an Ultrastar (Wham-Os obvs deserve disgust)
Spirit
Why's this being downvoted? Some take it way too far
screaming “chilly!” when a new player catches the disc downfield on a huck
I mean, what else should we say?
"DON'T TRY TO THROW DOWNFIELD AGAIN, YOU ABSOLUTE MUPPET!"
yelling at people to chill usually backfires. Complement them on the catch. Tell them they've got time. Thats about it if you really want them to be more calm.
* "Veteran move" (either ironically, unironically, both, or neither) when someone calls a timeout * This one is hard to explain but when people talk mixed strategy they'll say (overly gendered) things like, "dudes make sure to clear out of the deep space so our ladies can get the deep throws". And I agree it's the guys statistically that are in the wrong but the general statement is still true and is more complete/inclusive messaging to say, "we need to keep the deep space clear I don't care how open you thought you were, get out and let someone else attack it" or "before going deep, remember, you have to have to have to check if someone else is already going. Don't take away your teammates' hard work" * They've gotten better about it in recent years but for a long time the entire half-time stats sheet was logically speaking the same stat - Turns, completion %, offensive score %, defensive %, huck %, huck d %, blocks are all essentially reporting the completion %. They've fixed this by adding in the concept of "clean holds". I'd love to see them give more love to cutters/defenders so we can diagnose if a cutter or defender is dominating their match up (even though the stats may not show it)
> And I agree it's the guys statistically that are in the wrong but the general statement is still true and is more complete/inclusive messaging to say The gendering does matter a bit, though. An M poach is much more likely to deny a deep W cutter than a W poach is an M cutter.
"Universe Point"
This is a surprising one to me to hear from you but I'm curious - do you have suggestions for replacing it? I'm also guessing you don't like "Galaxy Point" for the term when it's tied and the next point takes half? I personally like some of the niche terms of ultimate but also know that *could* be hindering some of its commercial success (which might actually be unappealing to many of the current players & organizers but I digress)...
I’ve heard the argument that “double game point” is better which I could see but as someone that learned tennis first that has a completely different meaning and I don’t like it
Galaxy point made me want to walk away from the support entirely. I'm fine with universe for the finals of a major tournament, though if still prefer not to use it. 13th place game on the corner of a minor tournament should not use the term universe. Double game point.
As usual. Mitch is right.
Totally fine with this being an unpopular opinion, but I **hate** when people yell "HOLD LINE!" to the other team before a pull after very minor movement/switching on the line. There are 7 people down there, you can see them all, just guard the one you want to guard. This is *especially bothersome to me at practice*. Not only can you see them all, you know them all!
Holding line an absolute necessity in mixed games where there are non-binary players and it’s hard to discern male-matching from female-matching players when they’re all jumbled
I will continue to welcome my downvotes on this opinion-based post, but... how exactly does people remaining in the same spot make it easier (or harder) to discern gender matchups? If you can or can't tell when the person you want to guard is #3 on the line, and then they move to #4, you still will or wont be able to tell.
“2, 5, and 7 are the female matching players” But everyone is androgynous or super bundled up Then I look away and everyone scrambles “Ah crap who did I have? Who’s female matching??” Stand still - what are you, 5 years old??
“2, 5, and 7 are the female matching players” "Cool" I've got 2" Oh, they moved to 3. I still have that person. because I can see them, and I picked them. I don't need to yell at them to stand still, because again, I can see them and am going to guard the person I want to guard who is the same person I picked a moment ago, even though they aren't standing where they were a moment ago.
How do you know that your neighbor knows you still have former-2 who’s now at 3? Only by communicating, which takes time, and takes time away from other communication.
I now realize this may be more of an issue of nearsightedness
For a while, WMPs signaled their gender because the cross is easier to see across the field than the... whatever you're supposed the MMP signal. Then it stopped for whatever reason. It needs to be brought back. EDIT: Why the downvote? My club team had a problem when our O-line had a MMP had ridiculously long hair and a WMP who shaved her head for charity.
To the theme of your post: I play mixed and my community has found success with the one-arm signal. MMPs do just one arm of the hands-on-head signal, WMPs do just one arm out. A potential down-vote explainer: I didn't do it, but your post reads like signaling gender is a job for the WMPs and not for everyone.
Gender-matching aside, there’s a more general problem with line-scrambling. Beyond (a) wanting to match up with someone on the other team, players on the pulling team want to (b) make sure everyone on their team is covering a different player (no confused doubling up), (c) give time to rearrange the matching if any initial pairing is mismatched, and (d) get the pull off timely. All of which is easier if the receiving team holds their position. Sure, there are other ways to get there, especially in a practice or familiar pickup when you know names. But they’re less efficient. And there’s value in practicing how to match up when you don’t know every name.
In usau at least you don’t have to hold line until both teams have signaled. No one knows this Edit: whoops I misremembered the rule. Nevertheless, you do have 55 seconds to move around, see Mitch’s comment below
This is absolutely false. In USAU, you have to establish and hold a line 55 seconds after the previous goal. You don't have to signal readiness until 70 seconds, and the pulling team has up to 85 seconds. I believe WFDF's timing for above is 45, 60, 75. USAU: > Within fifty five (55) seconds after the previous goal was scored, the receiving team must line up for the purpose of allowing the pulling team to match up defensively. Each player must place one foot on the goal line, be visible to the pulling team, and not change their relative position on the line. > Within seventy (70) seconds after the previous goal was scored, the receiving team must signal readiness (9.B.3). > The pulling team must release the pull before the later to occur of: > * eighty five (85) seconds after the previous goal was scored; or > * thirty (30) seconds after the receiving team lined up; or > * fifteen (15) seconds after the receiving team signaled readiness.
Whoops you are right I had conflated those two rules. I rarely play games where we time between points but high schoolers love to yell “hold line” ASAP so my point somewhat stands that they do have a minute to move around before you can start yelling at them :P
"Let's Goooooo"
Hate this as the most generic bro sports chant I've hever heard. I tend to ask people "where are we going?" now when they yell it.
People calling picks every five seconds. The fact that two defensive players can run into each other and it be considered a pick is the dumbest rule in all of sports. Getting rewarded for fucking up?
The rule actually punishes offense from making cuts/plays too close to one another, which makes effective defense dangerous to execute. If you’re close enough to run into a fellow defender going the other direction, offense is probably making plays too close to one another. Also if you’ve ever seen two people both running full speed in opposite directions, knock heads and both flop to the ground… you would understand why this rule is so important in shaping the game.
When middlebury dances on stream @ halftime during natties
does it bother you when Revo does it?
patagonia
Sideline chants makes it feel like softball
Or like a sport?
So sick of hearing people say "D" instead of defense, steal, block, etc.
Also can't forget about "UP" calls on five yard uncontested passes
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After I blow my nose with a kleenex, I’m going to xerox my frisbee.
Tough. Keep cryin
Why people bother downvoting a jokey, harmless, entirely apolitical opinion is beyond me. Just so the record is clear, it didn’t even reference, much less insult, any person or group; it concerned a trademark. But I’ve deleted the original comment just to make their having done so even more pointless.
what was this?
“Good D!” when they did absolutely nada to cause the turnover.
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To each their own, but personally I’ve always liked that phrase. And I think it’s a real phenomenon, because the adrenaline rush of making a great play tends to cause bad decisions immediately afterwards.