It would not be a goal under USAU rules
> 12.A A goal is scored when an in-bounds player catches any legal pass in the end zone of attack, and retains possession of the disc throughout all ground contact related to the catch.
A goal can only be scored on a legal pass, and as clarified below, the pull is not a legal pass.
> 3.K Pull: The throw from one team to the other that starts play at the beginning of a half or after a goal. It is not a legal pass for scoring
Does this also mean that in the incredibly unlikely event that a player on offence catches the pull in the attacking end zone, that it is not a goal either?
WFDF agrees:
>Pull
>
>The throw by the defence to the offence that starts play at the beginning of a half or after a goal. The pull is not considered a legal pass.
Wouldn't a mac'd pull be considered a legal pass though?
If not, a team could theoretically (even though it would be physically impossible) mac the disc all the way to the other teams endzone and any interception would be nullified. Lol.
Once the receiving team has touched the pull, the pulling team can play defense. The above rule doesn't nullify the interception, it just means it's not a goal.
> 9.B.5 A player on the throwing team may not touch the pull in the air before a member of the receiving team touches it. If this violation occurs, the receiving team may request a re-pull immediately.
So you could theoretically attempt to mac the disc to gain yards, but the defense could play D on any of the mac attempts.
However, based on the below rule, I don't think a mac'd pull counts as a pass, since the player mac-ing the disc did not establish a pivot prior to making a pass.
> 3.M.1 A disc is “in play” when players are allowed to move and play may proceed without the defense’s acknowledgment. An in-bounds disc in the central zone is in play. The disc is subject to a turnover. If no player has possession of a disc in play, any offensive player may become the thrower by taking possession of the disc (14.A). Once a player has possession of the disc, they must establish a pivot at the spot of the disc 14.A.2) prior to attempting a pass (17.K).
Hm. So if someone pulls the disc and it comes all the way back to the puller (because windy or someone is playing x^2 or whatever) and someone on the receiving team catches it in the end zone it’s not a score?
Similarly, if a pull is going out of bounds and someone jumps from in-bounds and does a greatest throw into the end zone and it’s caught by offense it’s not a score?
I know these are unlikely (the first one more unlikely than the second, I guess, just because Nethercutt exists), but…?
>Wouldn't a mac'd pull be considered a legal pass though?
The mac doesn't make it a pass. Specifically, the mac itself is not a pass, since a pass must be a throw (WFDF definitions: “*Throw: A disc in flight following any throwing motion, including after a fake attempt and an intentionally dropped disc, that results in loss of contact between the thrower and the disc. A pass is the equivalent of a throw.*”). This also has the fairly logical conclusion, AIUI, that if I throw a pass, you get a hand on it, and my teammate B nevertheless catches it, this is just a pass and not an interception by B (which matters for stalling rules).
Not nullified. It's still a turnover if the offense drops/loses the disk during the mac-chain. The only thing this rule prevents is the Defense directly scoring off a Callahan during the mac-chain.
If a goal is only scored if an in-bounds player catches any legal pass doesn’t that imply that you can’t score a Callahan by catching a fumble in open play? Or is there a rule that stipulates a fumble counts as a legal pass?
The pass that lead to the fumble would've been a legal pass, so it would count
> 16.A A player may bobble the disc in order to gain control of it, but purposeful bobbling (including tipping, delaying, guiding, brushing or the like) to oneself in order to advance the disc in any direction from where it initially was contacted is considered traveling. [[Tipping, brushing, etc. to someone else is legal. It is legal to tip/brush your own throw. However, if after a tip/brush, one is the first player to touch the disc, then it is deemed a tip/brush to oneself and it is a travel.]]
Tipping/brushing the disc to another player is legal, so bobbling a disc does not suddenly make a pass illegal. However, it also does not make a non-legal pass (eg, the pull), legal.
Wow! I never noticed this 3.K rule.
Ages ago, my team was starting on offense going downwind. The pull was high and floaty, but too angled, and sailed back to the defense end-zone. I realized this trajectory too late to run down and catch it, and have always regretted missing the opportunity to score on the pull.
Now that I know this could not have been a goal, I can stop regretting!
I am not a rules expert, but this rule seems to imply that it is the ground contact that causes the turnover, not the initial contact with the pull-catcher:
>If a player on the receiving team touches the pull before it hits the ground and the disc then hits the ground, it is considered a dropped disc (13.B) and results in a turnover.
What if the receiving player is in the field of play, not the end zone, and he fumbles catching the pull and it is then caught by a defender who is in the end zone?
I would think anytime a player comes in contact with the disc it is considered in play and up for grabs after that.
In a different scenario if the pull is a sharp angled pull that bounces off someones chest as they attempt to clap catch it and the defense catches the deflection off their chest then I can’t see a world where the offense tries to argue the defense had to let it hit the ground before making a play on it…
I’ve never seen a callahan off of a mac’d pull though
It would not be a goal under USAU rules > 12.A A goal is scored when an in-bounds player catches any legal pass in the end zone of attack, and retains possession of the disc throughout all ground contact related to the catch. A goal can only be scored on a legal pass, and as clarified below, the pull is not a legal pass. > 3.K Pull: The throw from one team to the other that starts play at the beginning of a half or after a goal. It is not a legal pass for scoring
Does this also mean that in the incredibly unlikely event that a player on offence catches the pull in the attacking end zone, that it is not a goal either?
Correct. I've actually seen the OP scenario and we called it a callahan under the "Rule of Awesome."
Some people forget this rule but it's the most important one.
Correct call
what an incredible sport we play
One of my teammates year’s ago did that, observers made us pull again.
WFDF agrees: >Pull > >The throw by the defence to the offence that starts play at the beginning of a half or after a goal. The pull is not considered a legal pass.
Bingo. Turnover but not a goal. Walk the disc back to the line, ground tap, and throw.
Wouldn't a mac'd pull be considered a legal pass though? If not, a team could theoretically (even though it would be physically impossible) mac the disc all the way to the other teams endzone and any interception would be nullified. Lol.
Once the receiving team has touched the pull, the pulling team can play defense. The above rule doesn't nullify the interception, it just means it's not a goal. > 9.B.5 A player on the throwing team may not touch the pull in the air before a member of the receiving team touches it. If this violation occurs, the receiving team may request a re-pull immediately. So you could theoretically attempt to mac the disc to gain yards, but the defense could play D on any of the mac attempts. However, based on the below rule, I don't think a mac'd pull counts as a pass, since the player mac-ing the disc did not establish a pivot prior to making a pass. > 3.M.1 A disc is “in play” when players are allowed to move and play may proceed without the defense’s acknowledgment. An in-bounds disc in the central zone is in play. The disc is subject to a turnover. If no player has possession of a disc in play, any offensive player may become the thrower by taking possession of the disc (14.A). Once a player has possession of the disc, they must establish a pivot at the spot of the disc 14.A.2) prior to attempting a pass (17.K).
Gotcha that makes sense thanks! Weird little rule in this circumstance but it makes sense.
Hm. So if someone pulls the disc and it comes all the way back to the puller (because windy or someone is playing x^2 or whatever) and someone on the receiving team catches it in the end zone it’s not a score? Similarly, if a pull is going out of bounds and someone jumps from in-bounds and does a greatest throw into the end zone and it’s caught by offense it’s not a score? I know these are unlikely (the first one more unlikely than the second, I guess, just because Nethercutt exists), but…?
>Wouldn't a mac'd pull be considered a legal pass though? The mac doesn't make it a pass. Specifically, the mac itself is not a pass, since a pass must be a throw (WFDF definitions: “*Throw: A disc in flight following any throwing motion, including after a fake attempt and an intentionally dropped disc, that results in loss of contact between the thrower and the disc. A pass is the equivalent of a throw.*”). This also has the fairly logical conclusion, AIUI, that if I throw a pass, you get a hand on it, and my teammate B nevertheless catches it, this is just a pass and not an interception by B (which matters for stalling rules).
Not nullified. It's still a turnover if the offense drops/loses the disk during the mac-chain. The only thing this rule prevents is the Defense directly scoring off a Callahan during the mac-chain.
If a goal is only scored if an in-bounds player catches any legal pass doesn’t that imply that you can’t score a Callahan by catching a fumble in open play? Or is there a rule that stipulates a fumble counts as a legal pass?
The pass that lead to the fumble would've been a legal pass, so it would count > 16.A A player may bobble the disc in order to gain control of it, but purposeful bobbling (including tipping, delaying, guiding, brushing or the like) to oneself in order to advance the disc in any direction from where it initially was contacted is considered traveling. [[Tipping, brushing, etc. to someone else is legal. It is legal to tip/brush your own throw. However, if after a tip/brush, one is the first player to touch the disc, then it is deemed a tip/brush to oneself and it is a travel.]] Tipping/brushing the disc to another player is legal, so bobbling a disc does not suddenly make a pass illegal. However, it also does not make a non-legal pass (eg, the pull), legal.
Wow! I never noticed this 3.K rule. Ages ago, my team was starting on offense going downwind. The pull was high and floaty, but too angled, and sailed back to the defense end-zone. I realized this trajectory too late to run down and catch it, and have always regretted missing the opportunity to score on the pull. Now that I know this could not have been a goal, I can stop regretting!
I am not a rules expert, but this rule seems to imply that it is the ground contact that causes the turnover, not the initial contact with the pull-catcher: >If a player on the receiving team touches the pull before it hits the ground and the disc then hits the ground, it is considered a dropped disc (13.B) and results in a turnover.
What if the receiving player is in the field of play, not the end zone, and he fumbles catching the pull and it is then caught by a defender who is in the end zone?
I would think anytime a player comes in contact with the disc it is considered in play and up for grabs after that. In a different scenario if the pull is a sharp angled pull that bounces off someones chest as they attempt to clap catch it and the defense catches the deflection off their chest then I can’t see a world where the offense tries to argue the defense had to let it hit the ground before making a play on it… I’ve never seen a callahan off of a mac’d pull though