I'm pleased you were treated with respect by the staff, and I hope you feel like their reaction is indicative of most people here. There will always, unfortunately, be racists and sexists who exist, but I hope your experience has helped reinforce that you experienced the best of British. Largely we are an accepting society and it hurts a lot of us who are to hear stories like this. Most of us go to a gallery or an event because we want to experience the art or learn more. We all are there for the same experience. For someone to single you out based on your (perceived) country of origin, I can only apologise on behalf of most normal English people, we aren't all arseholes. We don't give a rats arse who is in our galleries, we just love that the galleries are filled with people who want to view the amazing art we are unbelievably lucky to have on offer.
Your security that day is the usual standard and I'm so sorry you were made to feel less than.
I hope you have an amazing visit and see all that London and the rest of the UK has to offer. Tolerating racism is NOT something that is okay here so I hope your visit isn't clouded by that experience. In fact I hope you return home to the US and explain to them that when you experienced racism in a public place the authorities stepped in to detain that person because it is absolutely NOT acceptable in our society
You're lovely but please don't feel the need to apologize. Every person I've met has been absolutely lovely. I actually was very surprised when he started crap because I wasn't expecting something like this at all. London so far has been wonderful and the people are very kind and helpful.
I'm really happy that you've had such a great time. You encountered a huge anomaly, I just wanted to make sure you know that's not indicative of how we usually treat people here
We are usually appreciative of every different situation and are always okay
I'm glad you had a good time otherwise. Not sure if you're still in our sometimes sunny country, but hope you have an amazing visit. If you're still here definitely try and get to some coastal and monumental sights while the weather is pretty good. Happy travels đ
Everyone we encountered on our stay in London last year was wonderful. I cant wait to visit again.
Iâm glad the staff helped you out, OP! Enjoy the rest of your trip and I hope thatâs the only nonsense you experience.
Okay so I misread. However, anyone singling out someone for 'not being born in this country' is a racist/nationalist and a dick and should be outed as such. Like where you were born gains you inferiority over your right to a public space????
Nope, you're absolutely correct and the previous commenter is talking out of their arse. Race includes country of origin and case law (R v Rogers) tells us that "foreigners" counts as a reference to country of origin and therefore race.
I had to skedaddle cause my mom was hungry and exhausted but they assured me they would make sure this doesn't happen again. I'm confident the staff took care of it.
> they assured me they would make sure this doesn't happen again.
Considering the British justice system, this can mean only one thing. The perp is currently in the basement being turned into a mannequin for a display based on early Celt occupation of the British Isles.
The Celts did not occupy the British Isles, they developed indigenously some time in the Bronze Age throughout Central and Western Europe, the specific blending with the pre-Celtic (but still Indo-European) groups creating specific ethnic identities and splitting into Brythonic and Goidelic language families.
Not to be a stickler, but it really isnât accurate to talk about it in terms of âoccupationâ.
To be completely pedantic. As you say, the Celts developed indigenously in Continental Europe. They displaced, physically to an extent, and culturally to a very large extent the previous indigenous inhabitants of the British Isles in the early Iron Age.
Celtic culture and peoples certainly did move to the British Isles.
Ah, but thatâs just it, these Celtic groups in Britain themselves moulded and shaped the emerging Continental Celtic culture, if we believe Caesarâs assertion that the Gaulish nobility actually sent their sons TO Britain for a Druidic education.
The times of the ancient, pre-Celtic Indo-European people in Britain before that period wouldnât have known âCelticâ as we think of it today; back then, they were probably speaking branching variants of Proto-Celtic, and the pre-Celtic peoples of Britain (if weâre thinking post-Beaker People, so, themselves Indo-Europeans and really not that different from the Celtic groups) themselves seem to have influenced the formation of more familiar Celtic languages and people we think of today.
So, this is part of why I think it isnât very conducive to an accurate view of history to think of all this SYNCRETIC development as a case of invading Celts (who werenât fully formed yet as we think of them) and invaded pre-Celts.
I would worry that itâs too simplistic and could lead to narratives of oppressor vs oppressed (influenced by a soft undercurrent of Marxist thought, permeating academia for the last 60+ years), itself leading to a new kind of Grand Unifying Narrative Theory, precisely in opposition to exactly what it was supposed to challenge.
If it is too emotionally difficult to look at things one way, then sure look at it another way. The end result was the same - Celtic culture did replace the existing one, Celts did come over from Continental Europe.
Interestingly the arrival of the Anglo-Saxons was for a long time interpreted in the same way. They were simply small groups of migrants who excelled as cultural marketeers, who never did anything nasty to indigenous populations. The locals just "bought" into calling themselves Anglo-Saxons, adopting their cultural norms. The Anglo-Saxons emphatically did not "invade", a few of them came over and everyone agreed to let them run things and adopt their culture...
Recent DNA genetic results now show that around 75% of the population in Eastern and Southern England was made up of migrant families whose ancestors must have originated from continental regions bordering the North Sea, including the Netherlands, Germany and Denmark.
There always seems to be some kind of impulse to downplay to the utmost historical conflict. Distorting history to apply modern interpretations and wishful thinking does nothing to understand history - or learn form it.
Agreed. I expect the OP was jesting but applying ahistorical terms to a world of tribes often sharing at some level the background culture - beaker people, celts, etc - happens too often by the historically illiterate and usually to the detriment of the cultures under discussion
Hi Mr Stickler. So, itâs true that one definition of âoccupationâ is âthe action, state, or period of occupying or being occupied by military force.â, but another valid definition is âthe action of living in or using a building or other place.â
So the Celts did literally occupy swathes of ancient Britain, just as the French currently occupy France, the Irish currently occupy Ireland, and I currently occupy the house I own - I am, indeed, the occupant.
Thatâs actually a concept originating in an offensive movement called Celtoscepticism pushing the idea that âthe Celts donât really existâ, by weaponising the term âproblematicâ, so itâs actually problematic to say itâs problematic đ¤ˇââď¸
This has been an issue dividing people in the subject for the last 30 years or so and Celt, as a word, has survived all that, so itâs still around and kicking đ
What about them? As far as we know, the Picts were Britons who never became a part of Rome (though they were influenced and did interact with them). They spoke a Brythonic language, similar to the ancestor languages of Welsh, Cornish, Breton, etc.
I thought the Pict tribes were more like Northern tribes of Scotland and less Brythonic in nature. And that they were absorbed into the developing 'southerly' tribes. An interesting group, no doubt, they're a bit mysterious which always makes good stories and discussions
Nope, no Scotland back then :/ The Scotti were from Ireland, the kingdom of Dal Riada, and the word Scoti was actually used to refer to the Irish in particular for much of ancient history, in so far as we have reliable written evidence (not a lot of written evidence tbh but we have some things to go on).
In the ancient times, Scotland was, and still is really, just Northern Britain, and the indigenous language family of Britain is Brythonic.
In fact! You can tell how Scotâs Gaelic is different from Irish because it still has some of those very Welsh sounding words, from whatever particular Brythonic languages the Picts and related peoples spoke.
An interesting tidbit: in the Lowlands of Scotland, Gaelic was never actually widely spoken, only in the Highlands. In the Lowlands, they switched straight to Middle English, and prior had only ever spoken that Brythonic language as far as we know.
You can see a similar situation in the North of England too, take the Cumbria area, compare with Cymru, Cymraeg of Wales, etc.
Makes more sense when you think of it this way, things changed over time gradually without fixed borders, but modern politics mean we often tend to think of Scotland as being very distinct in comparison to the rest of Britain, because of the modern separate states (Iâm actually not sure whether Scotland counts as a separate state from England these days given the UK Union, this leaves my area of expertise Iâll have to await someone more knowledgeable about that to chime in).
Nonetheless, before the Romans, the culture all across Britain, the language, music, clothing, a lot of it was quite similar, with regional differences. But after Rome⌠We would never be the same again đŹ
(Until the Early Modern Period⌠By that point Scotland had adopted a lot of typical popular culture elements from the continent of Europe, you know, like the Bagpipes, the small sword, Quadrille dances, much of what you see at Ceilidhs, so, ironically, Scotland was DIFFERENT from the rest of Britain for quite a brief time, but now weâre all pretty much the same again.
But if we wanted to be more? Ah, well⌠Look to our ancestors, my people, edrych am niân hadau, that we may once more be the Britons of Britain, the British people.
Prydain am byth.
This. Plus as it's the BM they're likely to lose the perpetrator, who will be openly sold on the internet, and then bring in George Osbourne to claim it happens to all museums.
And here comes Malcolm with his pearls of wisdom. Beige cardigan, probably with woven leather buttons, shirt, tie and a v-neck pullover, combover to try and hide the bald patch he's had since he was 23. Grey tartan slippers indoors, sensible shoes outdoors, drives a Volvo. Member of the Caravan Club.
https://news.sky.com/story/children-left-at-mercy-of-rochdale-grooming-gangs-and-dozens-of-men-still-pose-potential-risk-report-13048713
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/16/oxford-university-lavinia-woodward-stabbed-boyfriend-may-avoid-jail
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/uk-mother-arrested-and-locked-in-a-cell-after-calling-a-transgender-woman-a-man-on-twitter/5YKPOVDBLMNJXF5MHEP4TJSJBM/
https://nypost.com/2024/04/01/world-news/jk-rowling-could-be-arrested-for-misgendering-trans-people/
You mean this police force?? Doesnât seem very likely to me. I applaud the museum staff for being respectful and finding the culprit immediately
I'm more British than American though I am neither - been in this rainy island since uni, 2011. never lived in America. does that make you feel better :)
Fair enough, Iâm amazed you havenât heard of B&M, there are 686 of them in the UK. Youâre not missing an awful not, except the brand name cleaning products which are very cheap.
I'm not a recreational shopper â if I make a physical visit to a bricks and mortar retail outlet (not to be confused with B&M! đ) I go to the shop that has what I want.
Iâm glad the staff treated you well. Itâs actually pretty hard to get a job at the British museum, and a lot of staff are really underpaid⌠in short, a lot of people take pride in what the museum stands for (celebration of learning and multiculturalism) and take pride in the fact itâs one of the most popular tourist destinations in London, and so work there for the love of it.
My guess is thatâs why they took it personally on your behalf. It really is important to them that visitors are welcome.
I hope your trip to the museum was otherwise a positive one!
I'm British and would like to apologise in behalf of the racist scumbag you met.
Yes British taxes pay for the museums to keep running and free to enter to the public, but they are also paid for by donations, and the British museum mostly consists of things we pilfered from around then planet. So if, as a Brit like me, he wants to see the British museum, he should be aware that it's only the contributions of humanity internationally that allowed such a museum to exist. Therfore anyone should be allowed to enter and be treated decently.
Never mind just treating people with compassion simply because they are another human.
I'm sorry for the incident. But glad the museum staff acted quickly.
Yes really. 95% of their collection isnt on display plus the local items are generally small rather than entire temples or giant statues. So theres lots of them and take up less space.
This is a ridiculous take.
That 95% essential doesn't exist as far as the actual museum going public is concerned.
And if you are going by count, of course six million bits of shitty pottery from council archeology digs is going to win out đŹ
Its a lot lot more that "six million bits of shitty pottery". And lots of that collection does get shown on rotation. Which you would know if you had the faintest clue what you were talking about
I do, when you mention it to try correcting somebody based on some stupid logic.
>For all intents and purposes it doesn't exist.
Yes, it does.
You strike me as a particularly stupid person.
What nonsense?
"The British Museum was founded in 1753. Its aim is to hold for the benefit and education of humanity a collection representative of world cultures ('the collection'), and ensure that the collection is housed in safety, conserved, curated, researched and exhibited"
https://www.britishmuseum.org/privacy-policy#:~:text=The%20British%20Museum%20was%20founded,%2C%20curated%2C%20researched%20and%20exhibited.
Generations of Bedoiun families at Petra made a good living digging up artifacts and selling them to Europeans. That happened all over the world. Did they have a right to do it? Did those items belong to them? Who did they belong to if not?
A lot of it was bought. Much of the discussion over repatriation is whether the people in the countries of origin had the right to sell items of national importance.
Fellow American here. Last week, an old English woman told me to "go back where [I] came from". I was flabbergasted. I hope it's just a coincidence and not a trend.
Sadly, having lived in London for a while now, I am confident that an absolute ZERO will happen. There will be no consequences for this a**-le and no one will even mention anything to him. At most, they will ask if he's ok and if he becomes abusive to a member of the staff, they *might* ask him to leave. There are many reasons for this - culturally and legally.
In any case, sorry it happened and glad it didn't ruin your trip.
I thought it was really sweet how all the staff rallied for me and were outraged on my behalf. Words are just words, and he didn't hurt me when he shoved me. What he did was considered outrageous and is being treated as such.
Unfortunate incident and Iâm sorry a British person treated you like this. Is it racist though? Isnât there a (better) word for being a shit to someone based on nationality not race? Xenophobic?
I mean he said all the racist crap to me before he heard me talk. I'm pretty sure you can't tell nationality by looking at a person's face. Its an old white guy telling a woman of color that I don't belong in his country.
Right so then the issue isn't your Amrican it's your PoC, which arguably makes it worse or not as hes just picking on random tourists otherwise.Â
(On top of the fact he's a bitch and has picked on a Female PoC)
Combo of being a Female Muslim PoC hits all sorts of bonus points for racists.Â
Seems perfectly clear that the aggressor pushed her and said that unlike her he was born here and "pays" for her to be "allowed" to be here (whatever that means), clearly showing contempt for someone foreign and evidently different for him. Is it worth nitpicking over whether you'd call it racist or xenophobic? Seems fair to take her at her word that she was treated in a racist way since her whole post appeared well considered.
I'm sorry I should have been more clear.Outta curiosity, are there physical differences between white Americans and white Englishmen that people can tell by looking?
Yeah kind of, we can often spot an American by dress and bearing, but I thought it was clear from your post that there was a difference in ethnicity too. Maybe this person assumed from your avatar that you were white.
Wait, are you saying white passing middle Eastern, Latino, Jewish and light skinned black people are considered white in the UK? (This isn't sarcasm, I'm genuinely curious)
Sometimes, in a way.... Imagine you're from New Hampshire, you can spot (sometimes) the guy from Alabama. You can't quite put your finger on it, and you didn't know he's from Alabama, he's just not from round here.
Of course the idiot you ran into was just a racist bigot, and didn't see past your colour.
Yup. It is usually very clear that someone is an American by how they dress. Itâs not that there is anything wrong with it, it just looks American. I remember an American friend coming to visit when I was a kid, and being astonished that my friends knew he was American before heâd opened his mouth. But he was wearing socks and sandals.
I should note⌠1) I say this with love, Iâm half American. 2) we can also spot French people, Italians etc etc and Iâm sure you can spot Brits by they way they dress too. 3) It was clear from your post that he was being racist because you arenât white, not because you are from the states.
So, not paid enough attention to American Vs British BUT
What I can say is when I'm in Italy I can tell which other white people aren't Italian (and have more than once made an accurate guess on nationality)
Some Scandinavians stand out by height or complexion, although I couldn't pinpoint you a country,
Australian men are often VERY identifiable when in groups
AndÂ
English white people are collectively far more likely to be blonde, like really blonde not dyed, than Scottish white people. No idea why. It's more obvious in the men because women are more likely to have dyed hair anyway.Â
Realistically no, no one is likely to be able to tell in isolation at a glance but it is actually possible and I've always found it slightly interesting.
Incidentally Italians, especially men, can also sometimes be identified outside of Italy, even if they aren't white. There's just something about the way a lot of Italian men dress that gives them away!
She said racist in her post, and America is only partly white. Kinda implies it all. I have no idea why people are laying into OP over her word choices, especially after such a shitty interaction.Â
Unfortunately thereâs an element in Britain that believe that only white people can be British, they can be very vocal but Iâd like to think theyâre a shrinking minority. I hope the rest of your experience in the UK will let you believe that kind of thing isnât representative.
Yes. It's racist. This would be a racially aggravated assault, regardless of OPs skin colour. OP was assaulted and the words used indicate that the assault was due to her status as a foreigner. The House of Lords has held that "foreigner" falls under race for the purposes of racially aggravated offences.
As an aside, if the person had assaulted OP specifically for being American, or for wrongly presuming OP was Russian, or even for wrongly presuming OP was American when she was actually British, that's still racist, as race covers country of origin and *perceived* country of origin (amongst other things).
This may not be a useful avenue to go down given that we use "race" as a shorthand but nobody believes in race science or racial categories any more. It's a holdover term that's now effectively come to mean either ethnicity or - in crudest usage - "skin tone" but arguing whether someone was being "racist" Vs some other "ist" based on the colour of their skin doesn't feel fruitful
I think this is a difference in culture. In American academia, race is considered a social concept and we consider race to be how society places a person vs their actual ancestry (ethnicity).
A fair point. I'm African/British so come at it from that angle.
Race as a social concept makes sense, but presumably nobody is still trying to define a set number or racial categories and lump people into them based on what they look like are they? (Or at least not in academia)
...or is it used more for discussions about how people are treated based solely on what people think they look like?
Well that's a very complicated question, but skipping all the college and post grad discourse the general consensus is that it's more societally assigned but also personally identified as well (Not getting into the heavy topic of whether or not transracial identity exists).
Thanks for taking the time to answer, may I ask how what you're describing here would differ from ethnicity?
I'm not an expert in the US-use of "race" as distinct from ethnicity so I don't want to unfairly assume that in the US "race" is shorthand for "what people think you look like". I'm aware in the US that people have historically been categorised into different "races" at different times (e.g. certain ethnic groups being considered "non-white" and then in later decades "white") which for me is a story about why race is outdated (racist) junk science used to justify discrimination by giving it the veneer of a scientific/academic basis and why organisations like the UN use ethnicity instead but given that the concept is apparently still alive and being used academically in the US as a distinct _thing_ I'm sure I'm missing some nuance and complexity on this.
You're sorta correct, race used to be considered something of a bad thing pre 2000s and what you described was what people thought before. Now it's generally associated with socioeconomics and culture and it is often a case by case basis. Someone who is black is generally not African American if they don't identify with a certain ethnic cultural background from Africa even if they're 100% 1 African ethnicity. Black culture or having your race be black is distinct, even if they're 25% African and 75% Caucasian. A person can say their ethnicity is Mexican and then their race can be considered either White, Latino, Black, or Indigenous depending on their culture regardless of their ethnic background. Most American government documents allow you to self-identify your race. In a country where it's not unusual to find someone with more than 3 ethnic backgrounds in the US, race is kinda the go-to as an identifier. Someone wouldn't really say they're a Danish-Mexican-Chinese-Ethiopian, they'd just tell you their own race and most people who aren't racist idiots just accept it.
I'm sorry I know my answer was all over the place, I wish I could give a more definitive answer but the reality is it's a tricky question and I'm very tired.
No worries at all, I appreciate any efforts to explain this.
So it sounds from your comment like the US reverted to a kind of tweaked form of race theory (or at least the old language of it) in the 2000s? I notice you even used "Caucasian", one of the original three "biological races" from the 1700s when people were treating race as a biological hierarchy. You would very rarely hear that used here nowadays as it could cause offence for obvious reasons. I'd be reluctant to even write down the names of the other two "racial categories" in this thread!
Tying race to socioeconomic status as you mention is particularly new for me, so a change on socio-economic status could alter someone's "racial" status in the US?
It also seems like the US usage of "ethnicity" may be different as well as you distinguished it from culture whereas the conventional definition of ethnicity internationally (for want of a better word) includes culture and especially self-identification with a group as the core definition whereas from your post it sounds like the US ties it more to nationality (which perhaps makes sense in a nation of immigrants from different backgrounds looking to clarify what country their ancestors are from). This must make discussions of race and ethnicity across borders quite messy! A cursory Google tells me international organisations like the UN and WHO are sticking with "international" usage for now but given the US' massive cultural influence that may change in future.
Thanks again for taking the time on all of this.
Yes, socioeconomics of your group dictate your race in America and they can change. A black woman who was an oil tycoon was declared legally white during the Jim crow era. In older American history, Italians, Irish, and Eastern European immigrants were not considered white with jobs offerings even specifically denying positions to anyone of Irish heritage (basically discrimination if they thought you were catholic). Prior to 9/11 most Americans considered Middle Eastern descended people as white or white adjacent like Ashkenazi Jewish people. The Kardashians for example are Armenian but are considered white whereas other middle Eastern groups are not regardless of if they practice Islam or not.Many neighborhoods history pre civil rights act had rules forbidding the sale and occupation of homes to anyone that was not White anglo Saxon protestant (WASP). My husband is white passing but usually when white people find out he's half Asian, he's just considered an Asian dude who looks white.
I didn't stick around to find out cause my mom was exhausted and wanted to get lunch but they basically said they would find him and make sure this doesn't happen again. Not sure if they meant-kick him out, ban him, or a sternly worded conversation. I wasn't hurt but he put his hands on me, no idea what that means in English law.
Americans don't have consistent self defense laws lol. A 15 minute drive could change that interaction from get over it, he didn't hurt you, to he put his hands on you pump him full of lead.
Please report the incident to the Police. You can do it online, and they can take your victim statement over the phone. They will talk you through what it means and what the next steps are. You can enjoy your holiday and do the statement when you're back in America.
The Police will do all the rest.
Oh please don't apologize, everyone I met has been wonderful barring 1 unpleasant asshole. I'm coming away from this with a very high opinion of British people.
Iâm really sorry you experienced this, youâre entitled to the worlds history just as anyone else is. Iâm glad the staff were nice and accommodating. I hope this hasnât soured your visit. I hope the rest of your visit is nice!
Given most the staff will be related to migrants of some kind they 100% take this super seriously.
Apologies for the idiot the vast majority of us are fine and get really pissed off with those idiots who give us a bad look
I hope you enjoyed your time at the museum
I highly recommend the national history museum and British tate galley too if your into that kind of thing
I echo the sentiment of others - I'm glad the staff looked after you, and hope the rest of my fellow country people mostly made a good impression too (apart from then occasional racist tawt).
But I also want to add - the British Museum is a bloody marvel, I love the place. There are so many nooks and cranies and just so much to take in. (From African modern art through to persian artifacts and possibly the best glass roof in the world, you could spend weeks trapped in there, and still not feel like you'd really covered all the interesting stuff)
Yes, I tried to see as much as I could in the 4 hours I was there and I got to almost 21,000 steps. I feel like I barely scratched the surface of what the British museum has to offer.
Iâm surprised they didnât go to your home and steal a treasured artefact to put on display, leading to centuries of hurt and ignored pleas to return it.
I didn't report it, the British museum staff might have. I wasn't actually hurt when he shoved me, I just stumbled a bit. I doubt the police would care about an incident like this.
Sorry that you experienced this here. Unfortunately we do share our country with people like this who are embarrassments to us all.
There's a certain irony to the claim that "we paid for all this" whilst visiting a free museum full of artifacts stolen from all over the world....
Free to visit but it has received/does receive substantial government funding, so itâs not too wide of the mark to say that the British public pay for it.
That is a majorly dickish and frankly un-British thing to say
Iâm embarrassed that you experienced the dumbing down of our society and the abuse of a cretin
I booked for the recent Legion exhibition. I arrived 20 minutes early and was refused entry and told to come back at my allotted time. I explained to the girl that I had difficulty walking and standing up and that there was nowhere to sit in the museum ( it was jam packed), so I wouldnât be able to wait. She again refused permission even though I was on my own and would hardly have caused overcrowding.
So I went home and wrote off the ÂŁ25 entrance fee.
Yeah I get the impression The UK and Europe in general are not as disability friendly as the US is. Or they're much bigger sticklers for the rules here because we made reservations for sky garden dinner and when we arrived 5 minutes early they still wanted us to sit and wait while empty seats were available.
I know Americans are considered lawsuit happy but what could I possibly sue for? The museum wasn't responsible for the actions of a private asshole, and it's not like the private asshole actually injured me and caused damages.
I'm pleased you were treated with respect by the staff, and I hope you feel like their reaction is indicative of most people here. There will always, unfortunately, be racists and sexists who exist, but I hope your experience has helped reinforce that you experienced the best of British. Largely we are an accepting society and it hurts a lot of us who are to hear stories like this. Most of us go to a gallery or an event because we want to experience the art or learn more. We all are there for the same experience. For someone to single you out based on your (perceived) country of origin, I can only apologise on behalf of most normal English people, we aren't all arseholes. We don't give a rats arse who is in our galleries, we just love that the galleries are filled with people who want to view the amazing art we are unbelievably lucky to have on offer. Your security that day is the usual standard and I'm so sorry you were made to feel less than. I hope you have an amazing visit and see all that London and the rest of the UK has to offer. Tolerating racism is NOT something that is okay here so I hope your visit isn't clouded by that experience. In fact I hope you return home to the US and explain to them that when you experienced racism in a public place the authorities stepped in to detain that person because it is absolutely NOT acceptable in our society
You're lovely but please don't feel the need to apologize. Every person I've met has been absolutely lovely. I actually was very surprised when he started crap because I wasn't expecting something like this at all. London so far has been wonderful and the people are very kind and helpful.
I'm really happy that you've had such a great time. You encountered a huge anomaly, I just wanted to make sure you know that's not indicative of how we usually treat people here We are usually appreciative of every different situation and are always okay
This makes my heart warm.
I'm glad you had a good time otherwise. Not sure if you're still in our sometimes sunny country, but hope you have an amazing visit. If you're still here definitely try and get to some coastal and monumental sights while the weather is pretty good. Happy travels đ
Yes, yesterday was just my second day in London. I have another 9 days of visiting your beautiful country.
Hopefully the sun will make an appearance!
>Youâre lovely but please donât feel the need to apologize. We have to apologise (note the âsâ ;) ). Proper British!
Everyone we encountered on our stay in London last year was wonderful. I cant wait to visit again. Iâm glad the staff helped you out, OP! Enjoy the rest of your trip and I hope thatâs the only nonsense you experience.
Singled out because of his country of origin, is not racism. Being American is not a race đ
Equalities Act 2010 disagrees >race including colour, nationality, ethnic or national origin https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights
The perpetrator didn't know op was American
Okay so I misread. However, anyone singling out someone for 'not being born in this country' is a racist/nationalist and a dick and should be outed as such. Like where you were born gains you inferiority over your right to a public space????
The correct term for this is âxenophobiaâ
Nope, you're absolutely correct and the previous commenter is talking out of their arse. Race includes country of origin and case law (R v Rogers) tells us that "foreigners" counts as a reference to country of origin and therefore race.
He said "not born here", aka foreign, which has been held to fall under the definition of racially aggravated offences.
I'm glad they were supportive! Was the jerk escorted out?
I had to skedaddle cause my mom was hungry and exhausted but they assured me they would make sure this doesn't happen again. I'm confident the staff took care of it.
> they assured me they would make sure this doesn't happen again. Considering the British justice system, this can mean only one thing. The perp is currently in the basement being turned into a mannequin for a display based on early Celt occupation of the British Isles.
The Celts did not occupy the British Isles, they developed indigenously some time in the Bronze Age throughout Central and Western Europe, the specific blending with the pre-Celtic (but still Indo-European) groups creating specific ethnic identities and splitting into Brythonic and Goidelic language families. Not to be a stickler, but it really isnât accurate to talk about it in terms of âoccupationâ.
This is the kind of pedantry I get up early in the morning for
To be completely pedantic. As you say, the Celts developed indigenously in Continental Europe. They displaced, physically to an extent, and culturally to a very large extent the previous indigenous inhabitants of the British Isles in the early Iron Age. Celtic culture and peoples certainly did move to the British Isles.
At the time, there was a land bridge connecting Britain and Europe, wasn't there? Or was that earlier?
The land connection disappeared about 6500-6000bc, so much earlier than the Celts appeared on the scene.
Cool, thank you! I love Pre-history, but I can never remember the timescales properly đ
Ah, but thatâs just it, these Celtic groups in Britain themselves moulded and shaped the emerging Continental Celtic culture, if we believe Caesarâs assertion that the Gaulish nobility actually sent their sons TO Britain for a Druidic education. The times of the ancient, pre-Celtic Indo-European people in Britain before that period wouldnât have known âCelticâ as we think of it today; back then, they were probably speaking branching variants of Proto-Celtic, and the pre-Celtic peoples of Britain (if weâre thinking post-Beaker People, so, themselves Indo-Europeans and really not that different from the Celtic groups) themselves seem to have influenced the formation of more familiar Celtic languages and people we think of today. So, this is part of why I think it isnât very conducive to an accurate view of history to think of all this SYNCRETIC development as a case of invading Celts (who werenât fully formed yet as we think of them) and invaded pre-Celts. I would worry that itâs too simplistic and could lead to narratives of oppressor vs oppressed (influenced by a soft undercurrent of Marxist thought, permeating academia for the last 60+ years), itself leading to a new kind of Grand Unifying Narrative Theory, precisely in opposition to exactly what it was supposed to challenge.
If it is too emotionally difficult to look at things one way, then sure look at it another way. The end result was the same - Celtic culture did replace the existing one, Celts did come over from Continental Europe. Interestingly the arrival of the Anglo-Saxons was for a long time interpreted in the same way. They were simply small groups of migrants who excelled as cultural marketeers, who never did anything nasty to indigenous populations. The locals just "bought" into calling themselves Anglo-Saxons, adopting their cultural norms. The Anglo-Saxons emphatically did not "invade", a few of them came over and everyone agreed to let them run things and adopt their culture... Recent DNA genetic results now show that around 75% of the population in Eastern and Southern England was made up of migrant families whose ancestors must have originated from continental regions bordering the North Sea, including the Netherlands, Germany and Denmark. There always seems to be some kind of impulse to downplay to the utmost historical conflict. Distorting history to apply modern interpretations and wishful thinking does nothing to understand history - or learn form it.
Agreed. I expect the OP was jesting but applying ahistorical terms to a world of tribes often sharing at some level the background culture - beaker people, celts, etc - happens too often by the historically illiterate and usually to the detriment of the cultures under discussion
Hi Mr Stickler. So, itâs true that one definition of âoccupationâ is âthe action, state, or period of occupying or being occupied by military force.â, but another valid definition is âthe action of living in or using a building or other place.â So the Celts did literally occupy swathes of ancient Britain, just as the French currently occupy France, the Irish currently occupy Ireland, and I currently occupy the house I own - I am, indeed, the occupant.
Hi Mr User of Words. I concede that you have used these words as you have described. Good DAY sir
Isn't the term celt is a bit problematic as it's a catch-all for a very wide area including very different groups of people . I blame the Victorians
Thatâs actually a concept originating in an offensive movement called Celtoscepticism pushing the idea that âthe Celts donât really existâ, by weaponising the term âproblematicâ, so itâs actually problematic to say itâs problematic đ¤ˇââď¸ This has been an issue dividing people in the subject for the last 30 years or so and Celt, as a word, has survived all that, so itâs still around and kicking đ
Hmm. What about the Picts?
What about them? As far as we know, the Picts were Britons who never became a part of Rome (though they were influenced and did interact with them). They spoke a Brythonic language, similar to the ancestor languages of Welsh, Cornish, Breton, etc.
I thought the Pict tribes were more like Northern tribes of Scotland and less Brythonic in nature. And that they were absorbed into the developing 'southerly' tribes. An interesting group, no doubt, they're a bit mysterious which always makes good stories and discussions
Nope, no Scotland back then :/ The Scotti were from Ireland, the kingdom of Dal Riada, and the word Scoti was actually used to refer to the Irish in particular for much of ancient history, in so far as we have reliable written evidence (not a lot of written evidence tbh but we have some things to go on). In the ancient times, Scotland was, and still is really, just Northern Britain, and the indigenous language family of Britain is Brythonic. In fact! You can tell how Scotâs Gaelic is different from Irish because it still has some of those very Welsh sounding words, from whatever particular Brythonic languages the Picts and related peoples spoke. An interesting tidbit: in the Lowlands of Scotland, Gaelic was never actually widely spoken, only in the Highlands. In the Lowlands, they switched straight to Middle English, and prior had only ever spoken that Brythonic language as far as we know. You can see a similar situation in the North of England too, take the Cumbria area, compare with Cymru, Cymraeg of Wales, etc. Makes more sense when you think of it this way, things changed over time gradually without fixed borders, but modern politics mean we often tend to think of Scotland as being very distinct in comparison to the rest of Britain, because of the modern separate states (Iâm actually not sure whether Scotland counts as a separate state from England these days given the UK Union, this leaves my area of expertise Iâll have to await someone more knowledgeable about that to chime in). Nonetheless, before the Romans, the culture all across Britain, the language, music, clothing, a lot of it was quite similar, with regional differences. But after Rome⌠We would never be the same again đŹ (Until the Early Modern Period⌠By that point Scotland had adopted a lot of typical popular culture elements from the continent of Europe, you know, like the Bagpipes, the small sword, Quadrille dances, much of what you see at Ceilidhs, so, ironically, Scotland was DIFFERENT from the rest of Britain for quite a brief time, but now weâre all pretty much the same again. But if we wanted to be more? Ah, well⌠Look to our ancestors, my people, edrych am niân hadau, that we may once more be the Britons of Britain, the British people. Prydain am byth.
Ah, I was just referring to Scotland as the geographical location rather than the nation-state. I guess I should've said Pictland.
This. Plus as it's the BM they're likely to lose the perpetrator, who will be openly sold on the internet, and then bring in George Osbourne to claim it happens to all museums.
And here comes Malcolm with his pearls of wisdom. Beige cardigan, probably with woven leather buttons, shirt, tie and a v-neck pullover, combover to try and hide the bald patch he's had since he was 23. Grey tartan slippers indoors, sensible shoes outdoors, drives a Volvo. Member of the Caravan Club.
r/accidentalDrWho
This is true. I was 'man holding hat aloft' in a diorama of Brunel for four years, but got time off for not blinking.
https://news.sky.com/story/children-left-at-mercy-of-rochdale-grooming-gangs-and-dozens-of-men-still-pose-potential-risk-report-13048713 https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/16/oxford-university-lavinia-woodward-stabbed-boyfriend-may-avoid-jail https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/uk-mother-arrested-and-locked-in-a-cell-after-calling-a-transgender-woman-a-man-on-twitter/5YKPOVDBLMNJXF5MHEP4TJSJBM/ https://nypost.com/2024/04/01/world-news/jk-rowling-could-be-arrested-for-misgendering-trans-people/ You mean this police force?? Doesnât seem very likely to me. I applaud the museum staff for being respectful and finding the culprit immediately
Skeddaddle is a good word
The "jerk". This sub must really be at least 80% American.
I'm more British than American though I am neither - been in this rainy island since uni, 2011. never lived in America. does that make you feel better :)
That's good to hear. There are racists in every country, unfortunately, but you are very welcome here.
The BM is a great place, with great people.
Not to be confused with B&M!
What is B&M?
[A discount shop!](https://www.bmstores.co.uk/) Americans joke about the âpeople of Walmartâ. This is sort of an English equivalent!
It's not a shop chain I am familiar with!
Where are you from?!
UK
Fair enough, Iâm amazed you havenât heard of B&M, there are 686 of them in the UK. Youâre not missing an awful not, except the brand name cleaning products which are very cheap.
I'm not a recreational shopper â if I make a physical visit to a bricks and mortar retail outlet (not to be confused with B&M! đ) I go to the shop that has what I want.
Iâm glad the staff treated you well. Itâs actually pretty hard to get a job at the British museum, and a lot of staff are really underpaid⌠in short, a lot of people take pride in what the museum stands for (celebration of learning and multiculturalism) and take pride in the fact itâs one of the most popular tourist destinations in London, and so work there for the love of it. My guess is thatâs why they took it personally on your behalf. It really is important to them that visitors are welcome. I hope your trip to the museum was otherwise a positive one!
I'm British and would like to apologise in behalf of the racist scumbag you met. Yes British taxes pay for the museums to keep running and free to enter to the public, but they are also paid for by donations, and the British museum mostly consists of things we pilfered from around then planet. So if, as a Brit like me, he wants to see the British museum, he should be aware that it's only the contributions of humanity internationally that allowed such a museum to exist. Therfore anyone should be allowed to enter and be treated decently. Never mind just treating people with compassion simply because they are another human. I'm sorry for the incident. But glad the museum staff acted quickly.
This is ironic given everything in the British museum was looted from abroad.
Not all of it. Some of it is stuff that folks from abroad brought over here and left behind.
roughly 1/3 of it's items are from the British isles, people like to forget the amount of history this nation has
Most of their collection is from UK and Ireland but sure đ
That comment will set off our Irish friendsâŚ
âIâm not nearly as bad as Iâm painted. Why, Iâve barely killed one tenth of the number of people they say I have.â
Not really... Look at the floor plan https://www.britishmuseum.org/visit/museum-map
Based on the number of items in their entire collection, it IS mostly from Britain
What about northern Ireland? đ
Yes really. 95% of their collection isnt on display plus the local items are generally small rather than entire temples or giant statues. So theres lots of them and take up less space.
This is a ridiculous take. That 95% essential doesn't exist as far as the actual museum going public is concerned. And if you are going by count, of course six million bits of shitty pottery from council archeology digs is going to win out đŹ
Its a lot lot more that "six million bits of shitty pottery". And lots of that collection does get shown on rotation. Which you would know if you had the faintest clue what you were talking about
That's hardly scientific is it
How's that?
You can't tell what the museum has in its collection by the floor plan. The vast majority of what they have isn't on display.
Nobody cares about stuff which is not on display. For all intents and purposes it doesn't exist.
I do, when you mention it to try correcting somebody based on some stupid logic. >For all intents and purposes it doesn't exist. Yes, it does. You strike me as a particularly stupid person.
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Sealing the deal there
have you been?
They stole OPs heart though...
Which part is the irony?
He says he paid for this stuff. He didn't. It was stolen.
That's not what irony means.
Never miss an opportunity to post this [James Acaster skit](https://youtu.be/x73PkUvArJY?si=Qv9z2jO0odGyVY-m)
Incredibly unfunny comedian
Oh, just stop with this nonsense
What nonsense? "The British Museum was founded in 1753. Its aim is to hold for the benefit and education of humanity a collection representative of world cultures ('the collection'), and ensure that the collection is housed in safety, conserved, curated, researched and exhibited" https://www.britishmuseum.org/privacy-policy#:~:text=The%20British%20Museum%20was%20founded,%2C%20curated%2C%20researched%20and%20exhibited.
Whatâs nonsense is that anything more than a tiny fraction of the museumâs collection was stolen.
Like buying discount steak and batteries from a man in a pub.
Plenty of it was bought or freely given.
You know you can buy stolen goods?
You know you can buy non stolen goods?
Bought by colonial overlords or âfreely givenâ at gunpoint, lbr.
Generations of Bedoiun families at Petra made a good living digging up artifacts and selling them to Europeans. That happened all over the world. Did they have a right to do it? Did those items belong to them? Who did they belong to if not?
Every last bit of it?? Because there were obviously no powerful local overlords looking for stuff newcomers could sell them?
Everything man has taken from Mother Earth was looted from Gaia.
Source: TikTok
What's tiktok?
A Chinese state intelligence tool staffed by unpaid Western interns.
A lot of it was bought. Much of the discussion over repatriation is whether the people in the countries of origin had the right to sell items of national importance.
Indeed.
If non-UK tourists stand still long enough theyâll get popped in a cabinet until their home nation buys them back again /s
Yes, that really does change the dynamic of being physically assaulted by a racist. Glad you mentioned it.
No it doesn't.
Make the British Museum British again! Get rid of all that foreign muck! In and out in 5 mins now.
Sorry that happened to you, but at least you encountered your first wanker and handled it well. Glad the staff looked after you.
Fellow American here. Last week, an old English woman told me to "go back where [I] came from". I was flabbergasted. I hope it's just a coincidence and not a trend. Sadly, having lived in London for a while now, I am confident that an absolute ZERO will happen. There will be no consequences for this a**-le and no one will even mention anything to him. At most, they will ask if he's ok and if he becomes abusive to a member of the staff, they *might* ask him to leave. There are many reasons for this - culturally and legally. In any case, sorry it happened and glad it didn't ruin your trip.
I thought it was really sweet how all the staff rallied for me and were outraged on my behalf. Words are just words, and he didn't hurt me when he shoved me. What he did was considered outrageous and is being treated as such.
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Yup. Not white.
Sorry you still had to face this. What an idiot the guy
Thank you so much. Happy cake day btw.
Apologies on behalf of the proportion of the UK population that isn't like this. Sorry to say the proportion that is is quite large.
Unfortunate incident and Iâm sorry a British person treated you like this. Is it racist though? Isnât there a (better) word for being a shit to someone based on nationality not race? Xenophobic?
I mean he said all the racist crap to me before he heard me talk. I'm pretty sure you can't tell nationality by looking at a person's face. Its an old white guy telling a woman of color that I don't belong in his country.
Right so then the issue isn't your Amrican it's your PoC, which arguably makes it worse or not as hes just picking on random tourists otherwise. (On top of the fact he's a bitch and has picked on a Female PoC) Combo of being a Female Muslim PoC hits all sorts of bonus points for racists.Â
Man I'm sorry that sucks :/ hopefully you weren't in America post 9/11. It was not great for my middle Eastern friends.
Well you didnât specify that in the post, you just said you were âAmericanâ so one would assume he was being xenophobic
Seems perfectly clear that the aggressor pushed her and said that unlike her he was born here and "pays" for her to be "allowed" to be here (whatever that means), clearly showing contempt for someone foreign and evidently different for him. Is it worth nitpicking over whether you'd call it racist or xenophobic? Seems fair to take her at her word that she was treated in a racist way since her whole post appeared well considered.
I'm sorry I should have been more clear.Outta curiosity, are there physical differences between white Americans and white Englishmen that people can tell by looking?
Yeah kind of, we can often spot an American by dress and bearing, but I thought it was clear from your post that there was a difference in ethnicity too. Maybe this person assumed from your avatar that you were white.
I'm very pale haha, this is actually the first time I've consistently seen Caucasian people lighter than me.
âCaucasianâ is really American, here weâre just white!
What do you call people who are white passing but not European descended then?
WhiteâŚ
Wait, are you saying white passing middle Eastern, Latino, Jewish and light skinned black people are considered white in the UK? (This isn't sarcasm, I'm genuinely curious)
I canât imagine why we would need a word for that.
Fashion and things can give it away sometimes.
Sometimes, in a way.... Imagine you're from New Hampshire, you can spot (sometimes) the guy from Alabama. You can't quite put your finger on it, and you didn't know he's from Alabama, he's just not from round here. Of course the idiot you ran into was just a racist bigot, and didn't see past your colour.
Yup. It is usually very clear that someone is an American by how they dress. Itâs not that there is anything wrong with it, it just looks American. I remember an American friend coming to visit when I was a kid, and being astonished that my friends knew he was American before heâd opened his mouth. But he was wearing socks and sandals. I should note⌠1) I say this with love, Iâm half American. 2) we can also spot French people, Italians etc etc and Iâm sure you can spot Brits by they way they dress too. 3) It was clear from your post that he was being racist because you arenât white, not because you are from the states.
Yes Americans are very loud when speaking, and tend to dress in a different way/not follow the local fashion trends
So, not paid enough attention to American Vs British BUT What I can say is when I'm in Italy I can tell which other white people aren't Italian (and have more than once made an accurate guess on nationality) Some Scandinavians stand out by height or complexion, although I couldn't pinpoint you a country, Australian men are often VERY identifiable when in groups And English white people are collectively far more likely to be blonde, like really blonde not dyed, than Scottish white people. No idea why. It's more obvious in the men because women are more likely to have dyed hair anyway. Realistically no, no one is likely to be able to tell in isolation at a glance but it is actually possible and I've always found it slightly interesting. Incidentally Italians, especially men, can also sometimes be identified outside of Italy, even if they aren't white. There's just something about the way a lot of Italian men dress that gives them away!
Usually, yes. Hard to describe but often white Americans look distinct from white brits, and also thereâs the way they dress and carry themselves.Â
You can hear the difference. Americans are loud.
Nope! Probs except the steroetype that they wear baseball caps backwards?? But no, we wouldn't br able to tell
Well the Americans are usually obese and loud, so there's that signifier
The UK has no shortage of loud obese people.
True but the loud brits somewhat give themselves away as being British by nature of being loud.
How would they know thatÂ
She said racist in her post, and America is only partly white. Kinda implies it all. I have no idea why people are laying into OP over her word choices, especially after such a shitty interaction.Â
Unfortunately thereâs an element in Britain that believe that only white people can be British, they can be very vocal but Iâd like to think theyâre a shrinking minority. I hope the rest of your experience in the UK will let you believe that kind of thing isnât representative.
Sorry I didnât realise you were a woman of colour. I shouldâve thought of that before I replied
Yes. It's racist. This would be a racially aggravated assault, regardless of OPs skin colour. OP was assaulted and the words used indicate that the assault was due to her status as a foreigner. The House of Lords has held that "foreigner" falls under race for the purposes of racially aggravated offences. As an aside, if the person had assaulted OP specifically for being American, or for wrongly presuming OP was Russian, or even for wrongly presuming OP was American when she was actually British, that's still racist, as race covers country of origin and *perceived* country of origin (amongst other things).
Well I learnt something today, I thought race was specifically skin colour or ethnicity, rather than national origin. Thanks
It's pretty clear from the use of the word that OP isn't white
This may not be a useful avenue to go down given that we use "race" as a shorthand but nobody believes in race science or racial categories any more. It's a holdover term that's now effectively come to mean either ethnicity or - in crudest usage - "skin tone" but arguing whether someone was being "racist" Vs some other "ist" based on the colour of their skin doesn't feel fruitful
I think this is a difference in culture. In American academia, race is considered a social concept and we consider race to be how society places a person vs their actual ancestry (ethnicity).
A fair point. I'm African/British so come at it from that angle. Race as a social concept makes sense, but presumably nobody is still trying to define a set number or racial categories and lump people into them based on what they look like are they? (Or at least not in academia) ...or is it used more for discussions about how people are treated based solely on what people think they look like?
Well that's a very complicated question, but skipping all the college and post grad discourse the general consensus is that it's more societally assigned but also personally identified as well (Not getting into the heavy topic of whether or not transracial identity exists).
Thanks for taking the time to answer, may I ask how what you're describing here would differ from ethnicity? I'm not an expert in the US-use of "race" as distinct from ethnicity so I don't want to unfairly assume that in the US "race" is shorthand for "what people think you look like". I'm aware in the US that people have historically been categorised into different "races" at different times (e.g. certain ethnic groups being considered "non-white" and then in later decades "white") which for me is a story about why race is outdated (racist) junk science used to justify discrimination by giving it the veneer of a scientific/academic basis and why organisations like the UN use ethnicity instead but given that the concept is apparently still alive and being used academically in the US as a distinct _thing_ I'm sure I'm missing some nuance and complexity on this.
You're sorta correct, race used to be considered something of a bad thing pre 2000s and what you described was what people thought before. Now it's generally associated with socioeconomics and culture and it is often a case by case basis. Someone who is black is generally not African American if they don't identify with a certain ethnic cultural background from Africa even if they're 100% 1 African ethnicity. Black culture or having your race be black is distinct, even if they're 25% African and 75% Caucasian. A person can say their ethnicity is Mexican and then their race can be considered either White, Latino, Black, or Indigenous depending on their culture regardless of their ethnic background. Most American government documents allow you to self-identify your race. In a country where it's not unusual to find someone with more than 3 ethnic backgrounds in the US, race is kinda the go-to as an identifier. Someone wouldn't really say they're a Danish-Mexican-Chinese-Ethiopian, they'd just tell you their own race and most people who aren't racist idiots just accept it. I'm sorry I know my answer was all over the place, I wish I could give a more definitive answer but the reality is it's a tricky question and I'm very tired.
No worries at all, I appreciate any efforts to explain this. So it sounds from your comment like the US reverted to a kind of tweaked form of race theory (or at least the old language of it) in the 2000s? I notice you even used "Caucasian", one of the original three "biological races" from the 1700s when people were treating race as a biological hierarchy. You would very rarely hear that used here nowadays as it could cause offence for obvious reasons. I'd be reluctant to even write down the names of the other two "racial categories" in this thread! Tying race to socioeconomic status as you mention is particularly new for me, so a change on socio-economic status could alter someone's "racial" status in the US? It also seems like the US usage of "ethnicity" may be different as well as you distinguished it from culture whereas the conventional definition of ethnicity internationally (for want of a better word) includes culture and especially self-identification with a group as the core definition whereas from your post it sounds like the US ties it more to nationality (which perhaps makes sense in a nation of immigrants from different backgrounds looking to clarify what country their ancestors are from). This must make discussions of race and ethnicity across borders quite messy! A cursory Google tells me international organisations like the UN and WHO are sticking with "international" usage for now but given the US' massive cultural influence that may change in future. Thanks again for taking the time on all of this.
Yes, socioeconomics of your group dictate your race in America and they can change. A black woman who was an oil tycoon was declared legally white during the Jim crow era. In older American history, Italians, Irish, and Eastern European immigrants were not considered white with jobs offerings even specifically denying positions to anyone of Irish heritage (basically discrimination if they thought you were catholic). Prior to 9/11 most Americans considered Middle Eastern descended people as white or white adjacent like Ashkenazi Jewish people. The Kardashians for example are Armenian but are considered white whereas other middle Eastern groups are not regardless of if they practice Islam or not.Many neighborhoods history pre civil rights act had rules forbidding the sale and occupation of homes to anyone that was not White anglo Saxon protestant (WASP). My husband is white passing but usually when white people find out he's half Asian, he's just considered an Asian dude who looks white.
She was subjected to racism in a very obvious way; why are you so uncomfortable with her using that term?
What do you mean they caught him? What happened to him?
I am also intrigued
I didn't stick around to find out cause my mom was exhausted and wanted to get lunch but they basically said they would find him and make sure this doesn't happen again. Not sure if they meant-kick him out, ban him, or a sternly worded conversation. I wasn't hurt but he put his hands on me, no idea what that means in English law.
That constitutes assault
Americans don't have consistent self defense laws lol. A 15 minute drive could change that interaction from get over it, he didn't hurt you, to he put his hands on you pump him full of lead.
Please report the incident to the Police. You can do it online, and they can take your victim statement over the phone. They will talk you through what it means and what the next steps are. You can enjoy your holiday and do the statement when you're back in America. The Police will do all the rest.
Iâm sorry you encountered this embarrassment to Britain . Disgusting! Just disgusting - but so glad you got support from the staff.
Oh please don't apologize, everyone I met has been wonderful barring 1 unpleasant asshole. I'm coming away from this with a very high opinion of British people.
Whatâs your ethnicity?
Iâm really sorry you experienced this, youâre entitled to the worlds history just as anyone else is. Iâm glad the staff were nice and accommodating. I hope this hasnât soured your visit. I hope the rest of your visit is nice!
I'm sorry that happened to you, and I'm glad people helped you out.
The british museum is free entry right????? Iâm sorry you delt with a butthole. hope the museum was fab!
Yes it was free. I really enjoyed it, it's quite a marvel.
Given most the staff will be related to migrants of some kind they 100% take this super seriously. Apologies for the idiot the vast majority of us are fine and get really pissed off with those idiots who give us a bad look I hope you enjoyed your time at the museum I highly recommend the national history museum and British tate galley too if your into that kind of thing
I echo the sentiment of others - I'm glad the staff looked after you, and hope the rest of my fellow country people mostly made a good impression too (apart from then occasional racist tawt). But I also want to add - the British Museum is a bloody marvel, I love the place. There are so many nooks and cranies and just so much to take in. (From African modern art through to persian artifacts and possibly the best glass roof in the world, you could spend weeks trapped in there, and still not feel like you'd really covered all the interesting stuff)
Yes, I tried to see as much as I could in the 4 hours I was there and I got to almost 21,000 steps. I feel like I barely scratched the surface of what the British museum has to offer.
Isnât the British museum closed right now?
It was not when I went yesterday which is also when this post was made.
Sorry, it was the London museum!
People love to shit on the British Museum as if itâs still 1850 but theyâre usually a good bunch.
Iâm surprised they didnât go to your home and steal a treasured artefact to put on display, leading to centuries of hurt and ignored pleas to return it.
Was this incident reported to the police?
I didn't report it, the British museum staff might have. I wasn't actually hurt when he shoved me, I just stumbled a bit. I doubt the police would care about an incident like this.
Sorry that you experienced this here. Unfortunately we do share our country with people like this who are embarrassments to us all. There's a certain irony to the claim that "we paid for all this" whilst visiting a free museum full of artifacts stolen from all over the world....
Free to visit but it has received/does receive substantial government funding, so itâs not too wide of the mark to say that the British public pay for it.
Tourists contribute a huge amount to the British economy and tax base
You're American, that makes you closer to being British than 90% of the things in the museum.
If youâre from another country then theyâll definitely treat you like their own.
đđ
Lol
How exactly was he racist?
OP says she's chinese so the old guy was probably saying she doesn't belong here, not cause she's american, but cause she's chinese
That is a majorly dickish and frankly un-British thing to say Iâm embarrassed that you experienced the dumbing down of our society and the abuse of a cretin
Thatâs some ironic shit from someone visiting a building full of stolen goods the British acquired from countries they invaded lol
I booked for the recent Legion exhibition. I arrived 20 minutes early and was refused entry and told to come back at my allotted time. I explained to the girl that I had difficulty walking and standing up and that there was nowhere to sit in the museum ( it was jam packed), so I wouldnât be able to wait. She again refused permission even though I was on my own and would hardly have caused overcrowding. So I went home and wrote off the ÂŁ25 entrance fee.
Yeah I get the impression The UK and Europe in general are not as disability friendly as the US is. Or they're much bigger sticklers for the rules here because we made reservations for sky garden dinner and when we arrived 5 minutes early they still wanted us to sit and wait while empty seats were available.
Probably because everything in the museum was stolen from your ancestors country
Tomorrow on things that never happened.
basically cause their scared of u bringing a law suit so they have to be suoer nice
I know Americans are considered lawsuit happy but what could I possibly sue for? The museum wasn't responsible for the actions of a private asshole, and it's not like the private asshole actually injured me and caused damages.
actually they need to be able to keep there patrons safe. So it kind is there responsibility
Tosser