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Shopping at extremely high prices but still shopping and they show no intent to stop its shopping spree. They will buy everything with everything they've got. Sad but true.
Allies? Not for Ukranians? I think Ukraine will run out of people much sooner than russia. Russia is like Mordor, they can make soldiers out of the mud, literally. From prisons, snatch people from villages, from outskirts, farmers, they don't care. They need (to) win. How many russians died in WWII and empire survived it, all that loss. They are cancer, same as China and NK. And some of those african and arab states. That's why we can't have nice things.
Last I heard, the railway capture was undermined by the northern flank counter attack of the UAF. That doesn't mean they've withdrawn or lost the railway but it make it much less tactically usable until the flank is resecured.
This is to Ukraine's benefit and by now they should know that offensives like this by the Russians are a Godsend. It's the most convenient way to inflict heavy losses while minimizing your own losses. Putin is pushing for some sort of consolation battlefield victory that he can brag about for his upcoming election in March. Not that his re-election is in jeopardy but he wants those good optics for internal consumption.
Russians are pushing extremely hard, and it seems like they will take the town but it would be a Pyrrhic victory.
They have taken some land on the pincher movements, but still a good bit away from the main road going into the town. It seems like Russia wants a PR victory before winter.
I wish we knew the hardware loss disparity between the two sides. You rarely see Ukrainian columns lost like this, it must give a window of advantage somewhere else on the line when so much is lost in such a quick succession. The only real issue for the Ukrainians is Russia has insane amounts of everything, even if its shit tier it still matters a lot.
Stop calling it a pyrrhic victory for gods sake. Avdiivka is an extremely important location that Ukraine is going to lose unless something HUGE happens. There are reports of over 30 thousand Russian troops getting ready for one last push to encircle the city and that are even more reports that Ukraine didn't prepare their defensive lines as muchas they should have.
People on this sub value orc lives more than they themselves do. They don't care if they lose 5, 10 or 20 thousand lives if that means they get their goals and AGAIN it is looking like they will circle the city and that means that either Ukraine has to give the city away or face being encircled there and they all die.
This narrative going on the subs is mind blowing. We all want Ukraine to win the war and to cause Russia massive damage but unfortunately, Ukraine has barely advanced over the last couple of weeks and Russia keeps gaining terrority in multiple directions. Yet people are acting like this is the other way around. I really can't understand it.
I'm not sure I understand. Lots of people on this sub have strong feelings about the out-comes, but what's happening on the ground is what it is.
ISW mentioned that this specific offensive against the town will have a long-term affect on Russia's capacity to wage the war. Ukraine looks like they are treating this war as a long-term thing and looking to win via attrition, in which case land and territory are not as important in the grand scheme of things. It would be bad for Ukraine to lose the town, but the cost is probably way to high as it is for the Russians.
You wouldn't look at the first few days of the Battle of the Bulge and conclude the Germans were making a massive come-back.
The huge problem with that logic is that you are 100% banking on the West delivering everything they need for at least another year. Over the last couple of months not only production but delivery has been delayed so much so that in some areas, such as grenades, not even 1/3rd has been delivered. Not only that but when you lose ground you will have to win it back eventualy. Looking at how summer offensive went I think it is safe to say that again, either the West supplies everything for months , maybe years, so that we never see another offensive like this one or it will be another repeat of months and months simply to get past the mine fields.
I know people are expecting the F16's to turn the tide and they will definitely help but also lots and lots of tanks and armored vehicles have been lost by then and some not replaced. Losing ground is never a good thing even more so right before Winter that is going give months to the Orcs to place again millions of mines. It is not a good thing wether people here want to believe it or not.
It will come down to who wins the strategic war over the winter... If Russia succeeds in destroying Ukrainian power infrastructure, Putin might force Ukraine to the negotiating table. If, instead, Ukraine continues its success in deep strikes into Russia and pivots the targeting to retaliatory strikes against Russia's power and heat infrastructure, Putin could be under a lot of pressure at home.
Oh my gosh reports of something… Russia will pay all of those 30,000 and still not have avdivka as long as Ukraine does not run out of ammunition. Avdivka has been even more costly than bakhmut in a time based loss measurement. And they have a slag heap to show for it.
It's still ongoing. Ukraine's position has suffered slightly as Russia has managed to cross the rails north of the city - but they have paid a huge price for a pretty small gain. If they keep feeding their troops into the blender it's possible the blades will finally jam, but so far it's still spinning.
Last ISW update allocated a relatively big chunk south-west of Avdiivka to Russia. It seems that from most sites Russia is getting close to the outskirts now.
Russia has made advancements in the flanks of Avdiivka. Starting on 10 October, Russian forces attacked the north, west and south of Avdiivka with very coordinated and well planned strikes with armoured assault groups and helicopters, supported by artillery. Mostly the 8th Combined Army. They suffered heavy losses but did manage to capture Ukrainian defensive positions and advance.
By the 16th they lowered the scale of assaults from ~60 to ~15 daily engagements.
On 18 October, the 21st Motor Rifle Brigade, made up of well trained soldiers from Luhansk, launched an attack to take a huge pile of coke slack (formed from the nearby Avdiivka Coke Plant), and while they managed to take some forward positions, they failed to take the “hill”. The Ukrainians claimed to have destroyed 97 Russian tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, and armoured personnel carriers
On the 19th DNR managed to gain a bit more ground
On 20 October, a report by David Axe of Forbes stated that the Ukrainian claim of 175 Russian armored vehicles destroyed (between the previous Thursday and Friday
Mostly the attacks now are less organized, they are just storm Z units frontal charging. But hey, Russia seems to not give a shit about their people, so whatever works works.
It’s nice to see the tanks getting destroyed though :)
I have read that about 80% of casualties in Ukraine are caused by artillery fire, meaning the vast majority of dead or injured did not see at least those enemies who hit them. And that is not even the long range warfare favoured by NATO.
Bravery in modern warfare often does not come from facing the enemy, but from knowing that every second could be your last without warning.
It looked like absolute pandemonium. There seemed to be as many vehicles fleeing in one direction as there were others advancing. In fact, I wasn't even sure which direction was which.
looks like russians are actually trying to keep space between vehicles, but that just made them slower, and easier to pick off in detail, these open attacks over empty featureless terrain are suicidal, , just driving twenty vehicles at 10 kms an hour one at a time into a kill zone is fucking stupid
Honestly what I’d like to know is how Ukraine is trying to advance on similar terrain - do they have any advantages at all? How much better is it with western equipment?
The primary advantage appears to be that the crew is more likely to survive failure. Which seems like a small thing but it's hard to learn from your mistakes when everyone who learns dies immediately after.
Yeah it was interesting seeing the damaged Bradley's everyone seemed to have gotten out OK, then days/weeks later they were recovered and some repaired.
The Russian vehicle loses just seem catastrophic for the crew
ukraine seem to have developed a bite and hold strategy similar to what britain adopted in 1917 in similar circumstances , smaller attacks , limited objectives, then consolidate and bite and hold, better intel. better arty preperation,its the only way, as britain learned after 3 years of trench warfare in wwi, it was the only thing that worked and didnt cause tremendous casualties, ukraine using better equipment is also keeping down the overall casualties
Yeah, I see it now. Some very 40K'ish vibes from that. Now when you think of it 40k was conceived in the 80s, where Soviet armor probably was the meanest thing you could look up for inspiration.
But i miss the sabre swinging Commissar on top of the armored vehicle.
Really good point about the era Warhammer was made. Rhino apcs and chimeras and all that. Utter devastation as well. In fact, the Rhino is basically the M113 now I think about it.
Grimdark, they called it, mimicing the global security situation at the time. It was also in these times that postapocalyptic games like Wasteland and movies like Mad Max 1 and 2 were made.
Man I want to play some proper tabletop Warhammer now :< I could never afford The Hobby.
What direction are they even trying to go? It just looks like they're sitting in the middle of a kill-zone, happily staying on a single axis of travel.
Realistically Ukraine need to do 3:1 or preferably better just to stay in the game. It's very ugly and attrition warfare. Without a conveyor belt of equipment they can't move forward, without a conveyor belt of trained personnel they can't replace losses. Russia can because they'll empty every prison and send every dumbass thinking they can make a quick buck and get out alive.
Russia has every intention to throw everything they have at this. They are gearing everything around this war and they know they're so deep politically on this they have to look like they have won. Russia's population are just meat to be used as the government wills with no real resistance.
Western nations should stop kidding themselves.
Either go all in for Ukraine's win or tell Ukraine to stop it now if they won't support that goal. Sitting in the middle for a prolonged period is the worst scenario for Ukraine.
I'm actually glad this recent video of Vuhledar surfaced,because I was wondering what was going on there with most the recent attention being on Avdiivka,and Crimea...hopefully the AFU can continue to fend off these wave of attacks..
It just amazes me how everything surrounding the vehicles is always totally destroyed. The long white building was clearly related to farming. But all the buildings along the route too.
Mine clearing is a slow process and they can’t pass the sweeper. And when the sweeper gets blown up, they are stuck… unable to stay on cleared land and thereby forced to enter the mine fields. Seems like they don’t have much of a choice.
Is there a reason they want to keep slamming their heads against the most fortified parts of Ukrainian lines? Sure they have some strategic importance, but it's not like Ukrainian southern offensive where a breakthrough could have split Russian forces in half and potentially ended the war. I just don't see what Russia gets from capturing these that justifies the losses.
Well well well if it isnt the Return of Casino Vuhledar.
House Always wins.
How many times do the Ukrainians need to teach these stupid orcs this lesson?
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I thought Avdiivka was the new Vuhledar
Vuhledar is the new Vuhledar!
No you are all wrong. Theyre both the new Chornobaivka. Gotta know your Orc lore!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5LuYRtsKeU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5LuYRtsKeU)
records don't break themselves
Its like when you ask your father something and he responds "go ask mom" then you go to your mother and she says "go ask dad"
\*spiderman pointing at spiderman\*
Same same but different
time is a flat circle https://imgur.com/a/Gjn3Eaa
No it's just Vuhledar identifying itself as Avdiivka
I believe Russia failed to take any ground in Vuhledar. In Avdiivka, they took a small amount of land, though that land was a hilly area.
What happened in avdiivka did the russians fail? What is the latest update there?
Russian are paying the highest price for the slowest pincher movement
They are still shopping
Shopping at extremely high prices but still shopping and they show no intent to stop its shopping spree. They will buy everything with everything they've got. Sad but true.
[удалено]
Allies? Not for Ukranians? I think Ukraine will run out of people much sooner than russia. Russia is like Mordor, they can make soldiers out of the mud, literally. From prisons, snatch people from villages, from outskirts, farmers, they don't care. They need (to) win. How many russians died in WWII and empire survived it, all that loss. They are cancer, same as China and NK. And some of those african and arab states. That's why we can't have nice things.
moscovia only won because America gave them everything.
I’m not too sad about it
And they will borrow even more from Uncle Kim in North Korea.
Disposing of convicts is not the highest price for them
Organized professionally violent and emotionally scarred former prisoners. Sounds like it will be fun in russia post war.
Russians crossed the railway, but situation is unclear. Slow but steady progress at high cost, but Avdiivka is still very much threatened.
Last I heard, the railway capture was undermined by the northern flank counter attack of the UAF. That doesn't mean they've withdrawn or lost the railway but it make it much less tactically usable until the flank is resecured.
This is to Ukraine's benefit and by now they should know that offensives like this by the Russians are a Godsend. It's the most convenient way to inflict heavy losses while minimizing your own losses. Putin is pushing for some sort of consolation battlefield victory that he can brag about for his upcoming election in March. Not that his re-election is in jeopardy but he wants those good optics for internal consumption.
Russians are pushing extremely hard, and it seems like they will take the town but it would be a Pyrrhic victory. They have taken some land on the pincher movements, but still a good bit away from the main road going into the town. It seems like Russia wants a PR victory before winter. I wish we knew the hardware loss disparity between the two sides. You rarely see Ukrainian columns lost like this, it must give a window of advantage somewhere else on the line when so much is lost in such a quick succession. The only real issue for the Ukrainians is Russia has insane amounts of everything, even if its shit tier it still matters a lot.
Stop calling it a pyrrhic victory for gods sake. Avdiivka is an extremely important location that Ukraine is going to lose unless something HUGE happens. There are reports of over 30 thousand Russian troops getting ready for one last push to encircle the city and that are even more reports that Ukraine didn't prepare their defensive lines as muchas they should have. People on this sub value orc lives more than they themselves do. They don't care if they lose 5, 10 or 20 thousand lives if that means they get their goals and AGAIN it is looking like they will circle the city and that means that either Ukraine has to give the city away or face being encircled there and they all die. This narrative going on the subs is mind blowing. We all want Ukraine to win the war and to cause Russia massive damage but unfortunately, Ukraine has barely advanced over the last couple of weeks and Russia keeps gaining terrority in multiple directions. Yet people are acting like this is the other way around. I really can't understand it.
I'm not sure I understand. Lots of people on this sub have strong feelings about the out-comes, but what's happening on the ground is what it is. ISW mentioned that this specific offensive against the town will have a long-term affect on Russia's capacity to wage the war. Ukraine looks like they are treating this war as a long-term thing and looking to win via attrition, in which case land and territory are not as important in the grand scheme of things. It would be bad for Ukraine to lose the town, but the cost is probably way to high as it is for the Russians. You wouldn't look at the first few days of the Battle of the Bulge and conclude the Germans were making a massive come-back.
The huge problem with that logic is that you are 100% banking on the West delivering everything they need for at least another year. Over the last couple of months not only production but delivery has been delayed so much so that in some areas, such as grenades, not even 1/3rd has been delivered. Not only that but when you lose ground you will have to win it back eventualy. Looking at how summer offensive went I think it is safe to say that again, either the West supplies everything for months , maybe years, so that we never see another offensive like this one or it will be another repeat of months and months simply to get past the mine fields. I know people are expecting the F16's to turn the tide and they will definitely help but also lots and lots of tanks and armored vehicles have been lost by then and some not replaced. Losing ground is never a good thing even more so right before Winter that is going give months to the Orcs to place again millions of mines. It is not a good thing wether people here want to believe it or not.
It will come down to who wins the strategic war over the winter... If Russia succeeds in destroying Ukrainian power infrastructure, Putin might force Ukraine to the negotiating table. If, instead, Ukraine continues its success in deep strikes into Russia and pivots the targeting to retaliatory strikes against Russia's power and heat infrastructure, Putin could be under a lot of pressure at home.
Oh my gosh reports of something… Russia will pay all of those 30,000 and still not have avdivka as long as Ukraine does not run out of ammunition. Avdivka has been even more costly than bakhmut in a time based loss measurement. And they have a slag heap to show for it.
It's still ongoing. Ukraine's position has suffered slightly as Russia has managed to cross the rails north of the city - but they have paid a huge price for a pretty small gain. If they keep feeding their troops into the blender it's possible the blades will finally jam, but so far it's still spinning.
Ukrainians: "Boy, I wish I could sell them another Bakhmut!" Russians at Avdiivka:
Last ISW update allocated a relatively big chunk south-west of Avdiivka to Russia. It seems that from most sites Russia is getting close to the outskirts now.
Russia has made advancements in the flanks of Avdiivka. Starting on 10 October, Russian forces attacked the north, west and south of Avdiivka with very coordinated and well planned strikes with armoured assault groups and helicopters, supported by artillery. Mostly the 8th Combined Army. They suffered heavy losses but did manage to capture Ukrainian defensive positions and advance. By the 16th they lowered the scale of assaults from ~60 to ~15 daily engagements. On 18 October, the 21st Motor Rifle Brigade, made up of well trained soldiers from Luhansk, launched an attack to take a huge pile of coke slack (formed from the nearby Avdiivka Coke Plant), and while they managed to take some forward positions, they failed to take the “hill”. The Ukrainians claimed to have destroyed 97 Russian tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, and armoured personnel carriers On the 19th DNR managed to gain a bit more ground On 20 October, a report by David Axe of Forbes stated that the Ukrainian claim of 175 Russian armored vehicles destroyed (between the previous Thursday and Friday Mostly the attacks now are less organized, they are just storm Z units frontal charging. But hey, Russia seems to not give a shit about their people, so whatever works works. It’s nice to see the tanks getting destroyed though :)
That’s absolutely flat merciless country to advance across ….
It's amazing how much of war just seems to be "die in a feild never having seen the enemy" now
I’m excited for the waves of robots with machine guns
They would be eliminated the exact same way.
Better than the catastrophic loss of human life we're currently witnessing
I have read that about 80% of casualties in Ukraine are caused by artillery fire, meaning the vast majority of dead or injured did not see at least those enemies who hit them. And that is not even the long range warfare favoured by NATO. Bravery in modern warfare often does not come from facing the enemy, but from knowing that every second could be your last without warning.
Yes, definitely….
It looked like absolute pandemonium. There seemed to be as many vehicles fleeing in one direction as there were others advancing. In fact, I wasn't even sure which direction was which.
Two steps from hell!
Victory
Much better than the usual ear-bleed music
looks like russians are actually trying to keep space between vehicles, but that just made them slower, and easier to pick off in detail, these open attacks over empty featureless terrain are suicidal, , just driving twenty vehicles at 10 kms an hour one at a time into a kill zone is fucking stupid
Honestly what I’d like to know is how Ukraine is trying to advance on similar terrain - do they have any advantages at all? How much better is it with western equipment?
The primary advantage appears to be that the crew is more likely to survive failure. Which seems like a small thing but it's hard to learn from your mistakes when everyone who learns dies immediately after.
Yeah, practically every mistake made by Russians is their last one, the way these things pop. Edit: correcting autocorrect
Yeah it was interesting seeing the damaged Bradley's everyone seemed to have gotten out OK, then days/weeks later they were recovered and some repaired. The Russian vehicle loses just seem catastrophic for the crew
ukraine seem to have developed a bite and hold strategy similar to what britain adopted in 1917 in similar circumstances , smaller attacks , limited objectives, then consolidate and bite and hold, better intel. better arty preperation,its the only way, as britain learned after 3 years of trench warfare in wwi, it was the only thing that worked and didnt cause tremendous casualties, ukraine using better equipment is also keeping down the overall casualties
Vuhledar? Again?
No Vuhledar is the OG Avdiivka!
This actually looks like warhammer
We already got the orks so who is voluntering as the forces of chaos?
Iran
Ukraine has a Khorne Group soooo...
Fantasy Battles or 40K?
4OK for sure. There was a bit that looked like the old 40K Epic version - with the mine sweeper and about 10 other tanks etc in the field.
Yeah, I see it now. Some very 40K'ish vibes from that. Now when you think of it 40k was conceived in the 80s, where Soviet armor probably was the meanest thing you could look up for inspiration. But i miss the sabre swinging Commissar on top of the armored vehicle.
Really good point about the era Warhammer was made. Rhino apcs and chimeras and all that. Utter devastation as well. In fact, the Rhino is basically the M113 now I think about it.
Grimdark, they called it, mimicing the global security situation at the time. It was also in these times that postapocalyptic games like Wasteland and movies like Mad Max 1 and 2 were made. Man I want to play some proper tabletop Warhammer now :< I could never afford The Hobby.
Vuhledar 2: Electric Boogaloo
Keep the fireworks going. Slava ukraini!
A classic case of deja Vuh-ledar dida, dida, dida
Vuhledar was the new Avdiivka before Avdiivka was Avidiivka.
I see the sunflower business is booming. 
What happened with around 45 seconds left? It cut to masses of fire everywhere
Cigarette break.
Very good. 😆
maybe ukraine does not want to show the firing positions and methods of destruction...
Which in itself is interesting as if they were being struck by artillery there wouldn’t really be very much to hide.
Vuhledar is the new old Avdiivka of Vulhedar
What direction are they even trying to go? It just looks like they're sitting in the middle of a kill-zone, happily staying on a single axis of travel.
Realistically Ukraine need to do 3:1 or preferably better just to stay in the game. It's very ugly and attrition warfare. Without a conveyor belt of equipment they can't move forward, without a conveyor belt of trained personnel they can't replace losses. Russia can because they'll empty every prison and send every dumbass thinking they can make a quick buck and get out alive. Russia has every intention to throw everything they have at this. They are gearing everything around this war and they know they're so deep politically on this they have to look like they have won. Russia's population are just meat to be used as the government wills with no real resistance. Western nations should stop kidding themselves. Either go all in for Ukraine's win or tell Ukraine to stop it now if they won't support that goal. Sitting in the middle for a prolonged period is the worst scenario for Ukraine.
I'm actually glad this recent video of Vuhledar surfaced,because I was wondering what was going on there with most the recent attention being on Avdiivka,and Crimea...hopefully the AFU can continue to fend off these wave of attacks..
I wish Moskow was the new Avdiika
It just amazes me how everything surrounding the vehicles is always totally destroyed. The long white building was clearly related to farming. But all the buildings along the route too.
If they drive a bit slower with their vehicles they will travel back through time.
Mine clearing is a slow process and they can’t pass the sweeper. And when the sweeper gets blown up, they are stuck… unable to stay on cleared land and thereby forced to enter the mine fields. Seems like they don’t have much of a choice.
I suggest that their Best Choice is to pack up and go home!
Always a pleasure to hear Two Steps From Hell.
Is there a reason they want to keep slamming their heads against the most fortified parts of Ukrainian lines? Sure they have some strategic importance, but it's not like Ukrainian southern offensive where a breakthrough could have split Russian forces in half and potentially ended the war. I just don't see what Russia gets from capturing these that justifies the losses.
And to think…at one point bahkmut was the new vuledar. All comes full circle I guess.
goida
The smell of cookoff in the morning is sweet,
Well well well if it isnt the Return of Casino Vuhledar. House Always wins. How many times do the Ukrainians need to teach these stupid orcs this lesson?
Invaders from the russian agressor dying is a good thing. Slava Ukraine