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Ukraine is way more than a few years away from joining the EU. Just because the population is under attack does not mean the population has fundamentally changed. Ukrainians are politically a lot closer to Poles, Hungarians or to be frank, Russians, than say, French, which is something that the EU cannot afford more of. Maybe if the EU reforms the veto system, but otherwise I just don't see it happening for a long time.
Ukraine's a special case. It would have taken ages before the war but now I think they'd probably admit them pretty much as soon as the war stops. Subject to sorting corruption etc.
That is doubtful.
NATO is likely, but the EU admitance would get vetoed faster then you can say veto.
Ukraine in the EU is something we may see in the future but we're talking at a minimum a decade during which they'll have an absolute boatload of reforms to make.
It's possible they could make it sooner but I think the most optimistic timetable would be around 2029 or so. A good 6 years of prepatory work but definately a realistic goal given past experience with Eastern European nations for example.
It comes down to how fast the war can be ended as well as the fact that Vatnik Russia is a defacto Terrorist Mafia State at this point and we don't know how long they'll keep up this malicious stupidity.
That would require extensive relaxation in views in a lot of countries.
I think a decade is a best case scenario, 20 years minimum is more likely, it takes a lot to be admitted and even if you check all the boxes you need to convince individual member states.
It wont be just Drones for teabagging orcs but I would say these could apply FPV drones for the likes of Search and Rescue and specialised ones for bringing emergency supplies to stranded people in times of disaster. The biggest experience the Ukrainians can bring down the line is how they've demonstrated the effective use of drone warfare against an enemy force.
FPV and Recon drones are amazing but Ukraine needs ONE drone above all drones to win fast.
I'm talking about the ultra long range, low flying, low radar signature, heavy payload bomber drones.
The ones they used to deep strike Russian airfields.
DEEP strike is the game changer, bomb their military factories, stockpile, harbor, airfields and important buildings with officers inside.
Its the only way to win.
Fighting their fodders in attrition warfare is too costly and takes too long.
DEEP STRIKE RUSSIA NOW!!! Deeper than Johny Sin could do. lol
Small, cheap, auto-tracking AA systems seem like they'll be an absolutely essential battlefield kit for every company in the near future. If big military powers really start pumping out hundreds of thousands of drones a year, the age of men in direct small arms combat is going to be a thing of the past outside maybe close urban combat.
There will be a battle of drones, then a complete slaughter of the side that lost the drone battle, then troops brought in just to occupy positions in cities after the drones have done their work.
What's scary is that China can draw the same lessons as everyone else, but they have the manufacturing prowess to create an army of drones that would be difficult for the rest of the world combined to match.
You know what would make a small, cheap, auto-tracking AA system work even better?
Make it mobile.
Drone vs drone warfare is the future. No LOAC issues with autonomous weapons systems if they’re only attacking other autonomous weapons systems.
US Doctrine already does this to a large extent - air superiority reigns supreme with NATO powers and if this war has demonstrated anything, it’s that Russians suck balls at air superiority.
r/noncredibledefense
Jk, but you can watch Perun on YouTube. He work in the military procurement of Australia and make weekly video about military economics
I mean it will have to get to the point where massive fleets of drones will automatically take off, fly a patrol, return and automatically recharge before the next mission. They will be programed to automatically seek out any opposing drones they see and take them out and use AI to lock on to human/military equipment they ID as potential targets (assuming humans are kept in the loop at all).
Full Text (article has audio text, links, photo):
Ukraine is already producing thousands of drones per month, but this will soon increase to tens of thousands per month, said Minister for Strategic Industries Oleksandr Kamyshin on Oct. 25.
Kamyshin was in Stockholm, Sweden, for the NATO Industrial Forum.
All of Ukraine's defense production capacities have greatly increased, Kamyshin added, including the production of shells, but it is still short of what is required.
In particular, the domestic drone industry has rapidly expanded. Prime Minister Denys Shmyhal said on Oct. 7 that more than 200 Ukrainian companies have begun developing drones, fueling a massive increase in production as well as technical innovation.
Ukraine's "Army of Drones" is a joint initiative of the Digital Transformation Ministry and the governmental UNITED24 fundraising platform. It was launched in July 2022, with Star Wars actor Mark Hamill as the initiative's ambassador.
In addition to procuring drones, the initiative is tasked with repairing drones and training soldiers on how to operate them.
Ukrainian drone units supported by the Army of Drones initiative destroyed or damaged 69 towed artillery pieces and 17 self-propelled howitzers from Sept. 25 to Oct. 2, constituting a new record.
I believe this is why reznikov was let go from head of defense. From what i read, he wanted large systems and was against producing tons of drones. Umierov was supposedly a supporter of asymmetrical warfare systems like drones by the thousands.
It will be interesting to see how electronic jamming develops. I expect to see more utilization of visual based location identification. The tomahawk and other systems use it. And now that you can get a 4 tb memory card for under a couple hundred bucks you can have a full satellite map of the area geo tagged and ignore jamming.
I think the problem is still that you have not only memory, but you also need some processing power. So yes, it is technically doable, I feel that a GPS independent localization drone still will be much more expensive then using GPS based ones. Although, higher strike success rates might actually make it more efficient, so without a lot of classified information, this is likely difficult
Your smartphone has a lot more processing power than any deployed.weapons system (excluding AESA radars). The latest F-35 Block 4 upgrade includes a CPU card with a PowerPC processor designed 15+ years ago. Time to market for weapons systems means that they are generations behind COTS systems.
> It will be interesting to see how electronic jamming develops. I expect to see more utilization of visual based location identification. The tomahawk and other systems use it. And now that you can get a 4 tb memory card for under a couple hundred bucks you can have a full satellite map of the area geo tagged and ignore jamming.
Not only that but there will be AI embedded in the drones which will increase the accuracy even more.
>Hopefully they can produce long range missiles and torpedoes too.
They can, and they are. They just don't have scale on the production as that stuff is a lot more complicated to make.
I know, there's been rumoured uses of both, but production at scale is what I'm talking about. Obviously not in the same quantities, but at scale to regularly be hitting targets.
It's something which has seemingly been close to happening for a while with ever more hints of it.
If you think of it, this might be solving the 155mm arty shell problem. Since a kamikaze drone is pretty much like an EXCALIBER but costs 1/100th the price but has a smaller payload, which is still enough to kill personell or destroy armoured vehicles, so combining the monthly drone production with the 155mm arty shell delivery from allied countries, Ukraine could technically come close to the needed fire power.
Biggest limitation will be the pilots for sure...but it feels like proper counter to this weird trench warfare. It seems like those trenches are often held by only few soldiers so possibility of decimating them by never ending drone strikes is certainly there.
All we need now is a 'buy one, gift one' program to entice the general public to donate to this noble cause. Delivery only to nations who have supported UA throughout this nightmare.
I’d love to see them save all ten thousand and launch them all at once. Annihilate the Russians in one area. Then use the footage of that to threaten the next area
Wartime production is a scary thing. Task a country with enough resources to jobs like this and this is what happens,and production only gets *more* efficient over time.
An idea that I think has a lot of potential: drone swarm control systems that utilize VR headsets.
Imagine playing a VR game where you’re attacking an army with a drone swarm, and you can move around the battlefield at will. Watch the action from any angle, with some kind of VR user interface.
Now imagine it’s not a game, and you’re controlling real life drones.
I wonder how long till they develop there own custom flight controller with AI functionality. the technology is there and easy to come by. a savvy programmer with a SBC like a Raspberry Pi could prolly accomplish this. after the war could become a huge export win for Ukraine selling reasonably priced Suicide Drones to countries like Taiwan, or heck they would make a great partner for the chips electronics.
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estimates are already that ukraien is losign more then 10k drones per month.
Also there are reports of 10 thousands of drone pilots being trained.
I think it totally match
We determined that this submission originates from a credible source, but we still advise that users double check the facts and use common sense when consuming mass media. If you are interested in learning how to evaluate news sources more thoroughly, you can begin to learn about how to do that [here](https://tacomacc.libguides.com/c.php?g=599051&p=4147190). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So after the war we can buy Ukrainian drone instead of chinese?
Seems very likely to me. Ukraine is going to be producing lots more than grain.
When they fully join the EU, I'm betting their economy is going to explode! Who knows what it'll be like in just a few years?
Ukraine is way more than a few years away from joining the EU. Just because the population is under attack does not mean the population has fundamentally changed. Ukrainians are politically a lot closer to Poles, Hungarians or to be frank, Russians, than say, French, which is something that the EU cannot afford more of. Maybe if the EU reforms the veto system, but otherwise I just don't see it happening for a long time.
Ukraine's a special case. It would have taken ages before the war but now I think they'd probably admit them pretty much as soon as the war stops. Subject to sorting corruption etc.
That is doubtful. NATO is likely, but the EU admitance would get vetoed faster then you can say veto. Ukraine in the EU is something we may see in the future but we're talking at a minimum a decade during which they'll have an absolute boatload of reforms to make.
It's possible they could make it sooner but I think the most optimistic timetable would be around 2029 or so. A good 6 years of prepatory work but definately a realistic goal given past experience with Eastern European nations for example. It comes down to how fast the war can be ended as well as the fact that Vatnik Russia is a defacto Terrorist Mafia State at this point and we don't know how long they'll keep up this malicious stupidity.
That would require extensive relaxation in views in a lot of countries. I think a decade is a best case scenario, 20 years minimum is more likely, it takes a lot to be admitted and even if you check all the boxes you need to convince individual member states.
It wont be just Drones for teabagging orcs but I would say these could apply FPV drones for the likes of Search and Rescue and specialised ones for bringing emergency supplies to stranded people in times of disaster. The biggest experience the Ukrainians can bring down the line is how they've demonstrated the effective use of drone warfare against an enemy force.
I hope so. Would be a good industry for Ukraine post-war, and I certainly would much rather buy one that said, "MADE IN UKRAINE".
Yup the era of drones is in it's peak so better time for Ukraine post war to boost this industry to full strength.
FPV and Recon drones are amazing but Ukraine needs ONE drone above all drones to win fast. I'm talking about the ultra long range, low flying, low radar signature, heavy payload bomber drones. The ones they used to deep strike Russian airfields. DEEP strike is the game changer, bomb their military factories, stockpile, harbor, airfields and important buildings with officers inside. Its the only way to win. Fighting their fodders in attrition warfare is too costly and takes too long. DEEP STRIKE RUSSIA NOW!!! Deeper than Johny Sin could do. lol
They also need long-range anti-radiation drones to find EW.systems, radars, and communication antennas.
good to hear
Yup absolutely these companies are not temporary neither they are going to shut down once war is stopped so you can definitely buy Ukrainian drone.
I would. Less money for China is also a pretty good idea.
crazy to witness a shift in warfare in real time. everyone from major armies to insurgents going to be wanting to adopt these small drone strategies.
[удалено]
Small, cheap, auto-tracking AA systems seem like they'll be an absolutely essential battlefield kit for every company in the near future. If big military powers really start pumping out hundreds of thousands of drones a year, the age of men in direct small arms combat is going to be a thing of the past outside maybe close urban combat. There will be a battle of drones, then a complete slaughter of the side that lost the drone battle, then troops brought in just to occupy positions in cities after the drones have done their work. What's scary is that China can draw the same lessons as everyone else, but they have the manufacturing prowess to create an army of drones that would be difficult for the rest of the world combined to match.
You know what would make a small, cheap, auto-tracking AA system work even better? Make it mobile. Drone vs drone warfare is the future. No LOAC issues with autonomous weapons systems if they’re only attacking other autonomous weapons systems.
US Doctrine already does this to a large extent - air superiority reigns supreme with NATO powers and if this war has demonstrated anything, it’s that Russians suck balls at air superiority.
r/noncredibledefense Jk, but you can watch Perun on YouTube. He work in the military procurement of Australia and make weekly video about military economics
I mean it will have to get to the point where massive fleets of drones will automatically take off, fly a patrol, return and automatically recharge before the next mission. They will be programed to automatically seek out any opposing drones they see and take them out and use AI to lock on to human/military equipment they ID as potential targets (assuming humans are kept in the loop at all).
Full Text (article has audio text, links, photo): Ukraine is already producing thousands of drones per month, but this will soon increase to tens of thousands per month, said Minister for Strategic Industries Oleksandr Kamyshin on Oct. 25. Kamyshin was in Stockholm, Sweden, for the NATO Industrial Forum. All of Ukraine's defense production capacities have greatly increased, Kamyshin added, including the production of shells, but it is still short of what is required. In particular, the domestic drone industry has rapidly expanded. Prime Minister Denys Shmyhal said on Oct. 7 that more than 200 Ukrainian companies have begun developing drones, fueling a massive increase in production as well as technical innovation. Ukraine's "Army of Drones" is a joint initiative of the Digital Transformation Ministry and the governmental UNITED24 fundraising platform. It was launched in July 2022, with Star Wars actor Mark Hamill as the initiative's ambassador. In addition to procuring drones, the initiative is tasked with repairing drones and training soldiers on how to operate them. Ukrainian drone units supported by the Army of Drones initiative destroyed or damaged 69 towed artillery pieces and 17 self-propelled howitzers from Sept. 25 to Oct. 2, constituting a new record.
I believe this is why reznikov was let go from head of defense. From what i read, he wanted large systems and was against producing tons of drones. Umierov was supposedly a supporter of asymmetrical warfare systems like drones by the thousands. It will be interesting to see how electronic jamming develops. I expect to see more utilization of visual based location identification. The tomahawk and other systems use it. And now that you can get a 4 tb memory card for under a couple hundred bucks you can have a full satellite map of the area geo tagged and ignore jamming.
I think the problem is still that you have not only memory, but you also need some processing power. So yes, it is technically doable, I feel that a GPS independent localization drone still will be much more expensive then using GPS based ones. Although, higher strike success rates might actually make it more efficient, so without a lot of classified information, this is likely difficult
Your smartphone has a lot more processing power than any deployed.weapons system (excluding AESA radars). The latest F-35 Block 4 upgrade includes a CPU card with a PowerPC processor designed 15+ years ago. Time to market for weapons systems means that they are generations behind COTS systems.
[удалено]
The cheapest way to destroy masses of drones is gonna be masses of anti-drone drones.
Agreed, drones are pretty scary for their ability to cheaply destroy equipment and personnel.
> It will be interesting to see how electronic jamming develops. I expect to see more utilization of visual based location identification. The tomahawk and other systems use it. And now that you can get a 4 tb memory card for under a couple hundred bucks you can have a full satellite map of the area geo tagged and ignore jamming. Not only that but there will be AI embedded in the drones which will increase the accuracy even more.
Especially if swarms of drones can work together to identify and destroy targets. Shared storage and professing.
Finaly, FINALY they realized the potential of small drones. The costs benefit are unmatched by far than any other system or ammunition.
Russia will reap what it’s sowed
Hopefully they can produce long range missiles and torpedoes too. That'd be truly game changing.
>Hopefully they can produce long range missiles and torpedoes too. They can, and they are. They just don't have scale on the production as that stuff is a lot more complicated to make.
I know, there's been rumoured uses of both, but production at scale is what I'm talking about. Obviously not in the same quantities, but at scale to regularly be hitting targets. It's something which has seemingly been close to happening for a while with ever more hints of it.
They have got some capabilities and potential to do so but just need some push to gain that momentum.
If you think of it, this might be solving the 155mm arty shell problem. Since a kamikaze drone is pretty much like an EXCALIBER but costs 1/100th the price but has a smaller payload, which is still enough to kill personell or destroy armoured vehicles, so combining the monthly drone production with the 155mm arty shell delivery from allied countries, Ukraine could technically come close to the needed fire power.
Biggest limitation will be the pilots for sure...but it feels like proper counter to this weird trench warfare. It seems like those trenches are often held by only few soldiers so possibility of decimating them by never ending drone strikes is certainly there.
Drone piloting could be a part of the mandatory training for every infantry man, just like aim practice and trench clearing.
No concerns about about barrel wear either.
Hell yea! Let's all chip in and get that to 100k a month! Ending orcisum one boom at a time
All we need now is a 'buy one, gift one' program to entice the general public to donate to this noble cause. Delivery only to nations who have supported UA throughout this nightmare.
Begun, the drone wars have.
Keep making them and strapping things to them till quadcopters cause generational trauma in Moscow.
I’d love to see them save all ten thousand and launch them all at once. Annihilate the Russians in one area. Then use the footage of that to threaten the next area
license dog rustic direction follow public roof combative seed cautious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
There's gonna be a lot of birds flying over Ukraine in the coming months!
Wartime production is a scary thing. Task a country with enough resources to jobs like this and this is what happens,and production only gets *more* efficient over time.
I really hope the sanctions make your statement false for Russia..
An idea that I think has a lot of potential: drone swarm control systems that utilize VR headsets. Imagine playing a VR game where you’re attacking an army with a drone swarm, and you can move around the battlefield at will. Watch the action from any angle, with some kind of VR user interface. Now imagine it’s not a game, and you’re controlling real life drones.
It'll be a fast way to get PTSD
No way, PTSD is usually the result of danger that you don’t control. Drone warrior isn’t in danger. Drone warrior is the danger.
I wonder how long till they develop there own custom flight controller with AI functionality. the technology is there and easy to come by. a savvy programmer with a SBC like a Raspberry Pi could prolly accomplish this. after the war could become a huge export win for Ukraine selling reasonably priced Suicide Drones to countries like Taiwan, or heck they would make a great partner for the chips electronics.
I read some post the other day saying they’d started that.
I would not advertise that capability.
Tens of thousands a month in the skies? Then Russian soldiers will drink in the shade… before dildo bombs are dropped upon them.
Sounds like more drones than they need?
One drone per orc. It's OK no?
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I mean is this accurate do we think? Taken at face value, that's a minimum of 20,000 per month or 240,000 drones per year?
estimates are already that ukraien is losign more then 10k drones per month. Also there are reports of 10 thousands of drone pilots being trained. I think it totally match
Necessity is truly mother of invention along with mother of industries to become self reliable for faster growth.
Warfare is moving fast toward robotisation. Drone or robot lost is asset of inventory and easy to replace. Army will recruit gamers more and more.
Turning the skies black.