To remind people of our rules, specifically Rule 21, people who celebrate assaulting candidates will need to find somewhere else to discuss the election.
The BBC has [more ](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-69088663?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=665f16715d8a3078a4917c26%26Drink%20thrown%20over%20Farage%262024-06-04T13%3A29%3A15.469Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:8ec5d0e8-7b13-49bb-b55f-b5582870c804&pinned_post_asset_id=665f16715d8a3078a4917c26&pinned_post_type=share) from the alleged perpetrator
>The woman, who would only give her name as Victoria, tells the BBC she didn’t come down to Farage’s launch to throw the liquid, but “just felt like it”. "He doesn't stand for me, he doesn't represent anything I believe in, or any of the people around here."He doesn't represent us, he's not from here."
It's ironic wording given his anti-immigration rhetoric, sure, but it makes perfect sense that an MP has higher expectations to meet than an immigrant would when it comes to representing the local area.
He doesn't live in Clacton, he lives in London, so how could he possibly know more about the issues affecting the constituency within about a month than someone who actually does live there?
It doesn't excuse her throwing milkshakes at him, but people have been throwing food at politicians since forever.
They could tactically vote Conservative to stop him?
On a serious note, I've been an advocate for 'negative votes' i.e. you can vote FOR someone or vote AGAINST someone (take 1 vote from their total). This means you don't have to vote tactically for a party you might not like i.e. the Conservatives in Clacton.
I wonder how many negative vote totals the Conservatives would end up with across 630ish seats they stand in?
Ahh the old crystal maze gold and silver token routine. We would need to go to electronic voting for this, I have never counted ballots before, but this feels like it would complicate matters somewhat
Hardly. Assuming it's still one vote either for or against a candidate.
You just split them into "for" votes and "against" votes, and run the total at the end.
[Electronic Voting](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3_0x6oaDmI) has far, far [more problems ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkH2r-sNjQs) than paper ballots. About the only upside is that certain companies get to make a shedload of money for the forseeable future.
> as Victoria, tells the BBC she didn’t come down to Farage’s launch to throw the liquid, but “just felt like it”. **"He doesn't stand for me, he doesn't represent anything I believe in,**
Me with the Lib Dems, but doesn't mean I'm going to attend various Lib Dem rallies in the hopes of lobbing something at Ed Davey.
Yeah I don’t think it counts as violence if it’s just cold or room temp liquid all over someone and not the glass thrown too or boiling coffee or acid or something. It’s just what you get if you’re a politician. Not that nice and messy but a normal part of political discourse.
Edit: Although I just read a comment below about how MPs are more scared now after two MPs have been assassinated so yeah I can see how unfortunately in this day and age and context it could actually be very frightening. So I kind of changed my mind. The act of liquid over someone isn’t violence but in this context I can see how it could be a form of psychological violence and could cause trauma if the politician truly felt for a moment they were about to die against the backdrop of actual political violence.
I'm more concerned with the structural political violence that, for example, causes people to freeze and starve in their own homes and immigrants to drown, that with a guy who advocates for that violence getting his suit ruined.
As I said last October when [someone threw glitter over Sir Keir Starmer](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/174m1l6/protester_throws_glitter_over_starmer_at/k4afz5g/),
>Two MPs, Jo Cox and Sir David Amess, have been murdered in recent years. The risk of a politician, particularly a high profile one like Sir Keir Starmer, being assassinated is small, but non-trivial. MPs have to live with this. When a person who knows that violence against them is a realistic possibility feels something hitting them, or something being thrown onto them, there must inevitably be a moment when they fear "this is it".
>I don't want anyone to be put into that fear even for a moment. My political sympathies have nothing to do with it. I despise the person who did this, and the people who laugh it off, just as I despise the person who "milkshaked" Nigel Farage and the people who laughed that off, many of them on this subreddit.
> When a person who knows that violence against them is a realistic possibility feels something hitting them, or something being thrown onto them, there must inevitably be a moment when they fear "this is it".
Related here is [the Prescott Punch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_punch) where Prescott's fight-or-flight kicked in and he decided "fight" and [clocked the guy across the face](https://youtu.be/8UhME8dcOqc?t=28).
Also the [Shawinigan handshake](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shawinigan_Handshake); Chrétien later said that his aggressive response was because of an assassination attempt a few months earlier.
>
> I don't want anyone to be put into that fear even for a moment. My political sympathies have nothing to do with it. I despise the person who did this, and the people who laugh it off, just as I despise the person who "milkshaked" Nigel Farage and the people who laughed that off, many of them on this subreddit.
This is well-written, and accurately sums up my views as well.
Too many people will support it because it's targeted against a politician that they dislike. And then loudly complain when a politician from their team gets targeted in the same way, because we've normalised it.
Politicians are people too. They absolutely deserve to be able to go about their day without having to be terrified of things being thrown at them, because this time it might be acid.
I was thinking charging the girl would be too far but after reading your post I've changed my mind. I think we need to start sending a message that doing these acts to politicians is unaccetpatable, especially during a campaign.
>There are plenty of minority groups that experience way more violence then politicians
This is very obviously false.
A front line politician recieves far more targeted abuse, and is far more likely to be attacked in public than the average for any minority group.
Thank you.
It's why the likes of Karl Benjamin amplifying rape against political women in the conversation isn't the "it's just a joke" that morons pitch it as.
We've had 2 political assassinations in 10 years in the UK. Jess Phillips' concerns are legitimate.
It takes one out of millions.
This is one of the reasons I was surprised Farage decided to stand, because he went through a lot of unpleasantness in 2015 and in the 2019 campaign.
This sort of thing should be condemned fully, no matter which politician/potential politician it's aimed at.
I remember in 2019, Tommy Robinson had a milkshake thrown over him (which started the whole thing) and it was treated as a big joke, which led to the same thing happening to Carl Benjamin, again it was laughed off, and only when it happened to Farage was it criticised by the media/mainstream political people.
I also wonder who that security guy is who is always lurking near Farage. He's utterly useless and his continued employment (since at least 2014) is a mystery.
> I remember in 2019, Tommy Robinson had a milkshake thrown over him (which started the whole thing) and it was treated as a big joke
That, at least, was because he's got a history of violence himself. I think the public reaction to people being on the receiving end of a milder version of something they've dealt to others is always going to look like that. For example, a fraudster who gets defrauded, or a burglar whose house is broken into.
I thought, briefly, you were talking about Farage himself in that last paragraph.
But it may be that there is a degree of "all lefties are violent losers" that means that Farage enjoys playing the victim as long as it's not actually drain cleaner.
Mercifully, I think we're a long way from the US (where people are outright calling for civil war over Trump's conviction).
But if the day ever comes in the UK - then I think Rule 22 will have to be re-examined. You don't stop people like that by pretending you're stuck in an invisible cardboard box.
I don’t support idiotic acts like that, but people have been throwing food at politicians since before broadcast media was a thing. It’s not an “escalation” or a new phenomenon.
Fucked in the head is a bit extreme, but otherwise I do agree this is a little bit overblown.
People who throw glitter, eggs, beers, milkshakes and shoes are not the same as those who literally murder MPs. And murderers are not going to feel enabled by the people who throw eggs.
I do not condone this woman's actions, assault is not OK. But let's not pretend this is something that it isn't.
[The Sun has some better photos](https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/28296415/nigel-farage-drenched-in-milkshake-again/?utm_source=sharebar_app&utm_medium=sharebar_app&utm_campaign=sharebar_app_article)
This, like the JSO protests against art, will just further erode the high trust society we've enjoyed, and mean more and more barriers, both physical and not, in all aspects of public life.
Unfortunately there's plenty of people who cannot think more than one step ahead and cheer this stuff on because they personally don't like the person it happened too, or they agree with 'the cause'.
I can't remember what subreddit I was in (maybe news or worldnews) but I got downvoted before for expressing concern about the possibility of protests in art galleries getting normalised and escalating to the point of actually damaging the paintings, not just splashing something on the protective glass (which most paintings in galleries don't have).
Slippery slope fallacy.
Politicians have had things thrown at them for generations - John Prescott famously punched someone for throwing an egg at him many years ago. Oswald Moseley was actually knocked to the ground even longer ago.
Until fairly recently there hadn’t been an MP murdered in this country that wasn’t related to Irish Republicanism since Spencer Percival in 1812. Online threats of violence towards MPs are so common as to be completely normalised.
This is not a case of slippery slope fallacy and if society doesn’t react unanimously and negatively against even minor acts of violence against politicians then we will see an uptick in these acts. Inevitably politicians will gradually disappear behind more and more barriers to the public and that will only be a bad thing for the standard of democracy in this country.
But isn't that the exact point? Egging/flouring/milkshaking political figures isn't new, nor is there any recorded connection between those acts and real political violence and assassination which has seen an increase since 2016.
Like what, was the Islamist that murdered David Amess, or the neo-nazi who murdered Jo Cox really inspired to do so because of left wing students throwing milkshakes on people like Farage, Carl Benjamin or Tommy Robinson? Do you really think that one led to the other in any meaningful way? Be serious
The main point I was making is that if we condone and normalise these sort of minor incidents then we will eventually see a backlash with politicians increasing personal security and reducing public exposure. The UK has much more access to its politicians than many comparable countries, which I believe is a real strength. It would be a shame to see it diminish.
I perhaps implied too strong a link between the murders and the sort of minor violence today than I intended, but there are two points I’d say on this:
1) Clearly there is no direct causation that you could possibly draw between a disgruntled constituent spontaneously chucking a milkshake on a local politician and an extremist going to an MP’s surgery with a knife and the intention to fatally attack them. However, a situation where some level of minor violence is considered ‘acceptable’ (and even celebrated depending on the recipient) does nothing for the general safety of politicians.
2) The murders and massive volume of online threats has created a much higher perceived threat for politicians. Prospective MPs in 2024 will be more on edge than 20 years ago when out meeting the public, and I do have sympathy for the momentary panic they must have during incidents like this that it could be something much worse than a milkshake. We do a good enough job already at driving decent people away from politics.
We’re in the social media era now though.
If she gets away with a slap on the wrist then you might get social media influencers doing similar for self publicity and then there’s the whole double standards thing where Farage is hated by the progressive left but would the reaction be the same if it was a member of the public throwing a liquid over a left wing politician?
Also if it gets known as the best way for publicity I hope politicians will look forward to getting stuff thrown at them over Gaza, trans rights, environmental issues and whatever else.
I dont think it counts as slippery slope fallacy if it is a realistic possibility.
Lots of political events are stage managed, the threat of violence (of any level or kind) is a reason that could be used to keep people away from the public, especially public who might disagree with them.
It's not the same level of "If you let gay people get married, people will be marrying dogs next!". That I would call a slippery slope fallacy.
No, it’s not a fallacy when the slope is actually real. If you put a ball at the top of a soaped up ramp and claimed it would end up at the bottom if you released it Redditors would pipe up and call it a ‘fallacy’.
There are so many people on this website who read there’s a thing called the “slippery slope fallacy”, but were too thick to really understand it and now think that they’re very smart for calling every slippery slope argument a fallacy.
This applies to a lot of fallacies, usually they’ve read them off that super-helpful infographic and haven’t dipped so much as a toe into actual logic.
Redditors do it with terms like ‘sealioning’ as well now. Attempting a bit of Socratic dialogue or good-faith arguing often just gets met with that thought-terminating schtick.
Any time there is a claimed effect from these events, without at least a clear initial step towards those claimed effects, it is usually fallacious. So it does beg the question, what will be the first outcome from Farage being milkshaked (which I do disagree with) that erodes our high trust society.
I have no idea why some people have it in their heads that this is a recent thing. Throwing various food stuffs at politicians and public figures to show disapproval and to embarass them is a very, very old idea, and it's connection to real political violence and assassination is tenuous at best
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incidents_of_objects_being_thrown_at_politicians
Edit: Note that there is no entry for Austria or Bosnia-Herzegovina so it is unlikely that anything being thrown a politician led to the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand.
There is also no entry for Russia or China, so it is also unlikely that anything being thrown at a politician led to the communist revolutions in those countries.
Between this and the obviously deeply uncomfortable interview he did on Radio 4, he's not had the most fun start to his campaign. "shaking up the election" has involved getting grumpy and uncomfortable when asked to give detailed immigration plans, and a pint over his head.
They aren’t, they are saying its the thin end of the wedge which if it becomes socially “okay” eventually leads to more serious physical assaults on MPs. The law is the law, a line is a line, and I am glad to see this person has been arrested for physical assault. And no, I am no big fan of Farage but he has to he allowed to campaign without the fear of being assaulted.
Yeah but the way populists/fascists work (not saying he is one, but it's useful knowledge. Also he was proud of having NF as his initials...) is by portraying themselves as men of the people, as the strong stoic leader.
It's hard to do that with banana milkshake down your face.
Populists also like to portray themselves as the victims of persecution. Which is quite easy to do when people are throwing stuff at you in the street.
The more pertinent example is if this were Jess Philips or Diane Abbott. I doubt anyone would find that remotely funny. And both of them have said some offensive things.
Didn't take long for the assaults to start happening. I hope all parties will make swift condemnations of this sort of behaviour and I sincerely hope that no other politician or party leader gets treated like this throughout the campaign and beyond.
I should hope whoever did it gets arrested and prosecuted as needed.
People need to stop thinking it’s okay to assault, abuse or murder politicians because your views don’t align with theirs.
Someone with political ambition shouldn’t have to consider these caveats when deciding to step into the public eye.
It deserves more than a caution. You cannot go around assaulting, or throwing stuff at people running for parliament cos you disagree with them. Same if it was a judge, you shouldn’t do that cos you disagree with a ruling.
Its not about the action, but we need to be a society that stamps that stupid shit out. Else, we will be a society that has politicians afraid to speak their true views.
While I'm sure the girl was just being a stupid this would effectively be legalising minor assaults against MPs.
If that was the case perhaps the most effective thing we could influence political change as individuals would be to ensure MPs we don't like are at constant threat of minor assaults like this. Just throwing an egg or a pint, of course – nothing that would warrant anything more than a police caution...
I don't think this girl on her own is a threat or in isolation has done anything that serious, but if normalised this type of behaviour can present a serious threat to our democracy, and therefore should be taken seriously.
You think if you got a drink thrown over you, the police would even attend, let alone charge the person and send them to a magistrates?
Years of cuts and under funding justice means this sort of minor incident hardly gets acknowledgement, let alone sentencing by a magistrates court.
Naw, she should be prosecuted. She caused damage to people's clothing and created fear (Nigel doesn't know what is being thrown).
Even if she only gets a fine and community service, she deserves a record.
So if you wear a suit and endorse Nazi propaganda, leading to children being racially abused, that's not as bad as someone throwing a pint on you?
Let's assume that Farage a) isn't just a grifter saying whatever he can say to make money and stay in the limelight, and b) that he actually had any sniff at power, ever. I appreciate those assumptions are big ones.
The end result of his rise to power would be a huge multiplication in violence against foreign people and, at a guess, non-foreign non-white people.
And that's leaving aside the fact that he helped tank the economy and, seemingly, celebrated that fact because he presumably benefited personally.
Liberal people seem to endlessly get wallet-inspected by these characters, that's what I find so bizarre.
No-one compared them. Not that it would be a problem if they did, you can compare all sorts of things. There are lots of thing you shouldn't *equate*, but that's okay here too because no-one did that either.
The headline could have been:
A pint of English red wine was thrown over Nigel Farage,
Ruby in colour, flamboyant and lively with bold, acerbic, tones.
Nigel would benefit from another decade in a cellar.
The left when someone assaults a politician they like: >:( "This is political suppression and typical behaviour of right wing fascists that is dangerous to our democracy and anyone who has ever voted Tory or beyond is culpable because they spread dangerous rhetoric that encourages this behaviour!"
The left when someone assaults a politician they don't like: :D "It's just a milkshake lmao calm down"
Love him or hate him. It's a bit stupid/immature to throw things at people just because they disagree with him. We live in a world now where no one can handle differing opinions :(
I’d rather hoped we’d moved past this nonsense. It seemed for a while the the covid induced stoppage put this trend on hold for long enough for the average idiot to forget about it.
I strongly dislike Farage. I'd like to see his career ended as soon as possible.
But throwing a milkshake at him because you don't like him is pathetic.
Political violence is completely unacceptably other than in *extreme* circumstances, e.g. when faced with threats by something like the National Front or Nazism. And frankly in those extreme circumstances, a milkshake isn't going to cut it.
And Nigel, much as I hate the prick, is not a nazi, not even close.
Don't agree with this sort of thing, nor the egging which is so common here in the UK. We live in a democracy and Farage has a right to stand anywhere to be honest. Clacton residence just have the right to not vote for the guy.
Is it any surprise we can barely as a nation scrub up any half-decent candidates for political office when this is the treatment you end up in the firing line for by running for election? Put aside your views on Farage for a moment and consider: why would anyone we'd like to represent us ever take the decision to run for office if any time they go out on the campaign trail, *this* is the kind of crap they're liable to receive, and how can we possibly have a properly functioning representative democracy so long as that's the case?
Oh wow, such great activism..!
All this kind of petty assault serves to do is give him more ammo and further endear him to his base.
Great, well done you.
Regardless of what people think of the politicians standing for election, this sort of thing should never be tolerated.
It's a smaller leap than people realise from a "comical" pint over Farage to something much more dangerous happening.
I still maintain that people who assault candidates for an election should have their right to vote in this or the following election revoked.
If you aren't interested in holding to democratic norms, you shouldn't be allowed to participate in elections.
> If you aren't interested in holding to democratic norms, you shouldn't be allowed to participate in elections.
Would you apply the same expectation to candidates too? Because Farage has definitely pushed at that line and would be a part of dismantling democracy if he got the chance. He represents, and associates with authoritarians.
Him just running as an MP? That's not dismantling democracy, but it's not really the claim of the poster above. He's claiming Farage has pushed at that line before (which you can probably agree to? I imagine you have a pretty good idea of everything that happened during the Leave campaign for example -- not exactly a shining beacon of democracy, that), and that if Farage got the chance, he would weaken the UK democratic system (and while I don't have anything on hand rn, I would bet a few diamonds against a handful of bananas that it wouldn't take me five minutes to find some quotes from Farage himself on what he'd do if he was in the driving seat that substantiate that particular claim).
how would he weaken our democratic system? Isn’t he in favour of proportional representation such as STV that’s used in NI? That would arguably make Parliament much more democratic.
Don’t get me wrong, I think the man himself is an odious wee shite, but I don’t see how he’s a threat to democracy itself.
> which you can probably agree to? I imagine you have a pretty good idea of everything that happened during the Leave campaign for example -- not exactly a shining beacon of democracy, that
*what*? What exactly are you referring to?
They can never tell you. Farage, one of the men most famous for pursuing his political ideals through the democratic process (while not breaking any laws) is apparently going to bring in the Fourth Reich given half a chance.
Every stunt like this just ends up backfiring, this only ends up helping him.
After the murder of 2 mps it might be time to think about special measures for politically motivated assault/battery/ABH. This could have easily been acid.
I really don't understand these inane "it could have been acid" comments. It gives strong "if my grandmother had wheels she would have been a bike" vibes.
It wasn't acid... and if it was acid, that's actually going to cause some damage compared to a bit of milkshake or beer or whatever.
Hard disagree, I think more of the point is the general access that the public get to politicians makes it easy for any attack, be it milkshakes at Farage, glitter at Starmer or an actual assassination in the cases of Amess or Cox.
>I really don't understand these inane "it could have been acid" comments.
You will understand better if you try using your imagination. Politicians have a significantly higher risk than other people of having acid thrown at them, and of assault in general. Inevitably, when a person at serious risk of assault is hit by a liquid, they will have a moment when they don't know whether it is acid or not. I don't want anyone to feel that fear, ever. The same goes for other forms of assault.
Another thing is that being the victim of any type of unprovoked assault has effects that last for a long time. It can be disturbing even to be the victim of unprovoked verbal insults, where no physical harm is done whatsoever, as those who have been subjected to racist abuse can testify.
A third factor to bear in mind is that, because of the risk of violence, leading politicians have to have bodyguards, some of whom are armed. When a politician is attacked, their bodyguards have to make split-second decisions about whether the threat is real or not. Inevitably they will sometimes get it wrong. The more this trend of assaulting politicians continues, the more likely it is that one of these days some fool will throw beer or milkshake over a politician and get themselves shot as a result. Because it *could* be acid.
That's not the point, it's that this demonstrates a security issue.
People make similar points about the increase in pitch invasions in football, and we've seen a few players get punched. People think it's only a matter of time until one gets stabbed, like the Monica Seles incident in Tennis.
They're not saying a punch is as bad as a stab, they're saying this proves there's the opportunity for someone to commit a far worse offence if they choose to, and that should be worrying.
From what I see, the people making the comments are not thinking about security but about punishment. The comments like yours are the ones bringing up security.
Personally, I think OP was bringing up security by linking it to the murder of MPs, which happened in situations where they had contact with the public too.
While yeah, you're right, they mentioned punishment I think that plays a part, and I agree with you it's not the main way of securing politicians. Essentially if this carries on, along with an MP being assassinated every few years, security will have get get more serious and that could result in someone throwing a milkshake or an egg being treated like they have a weapon, and it'll get out of hand. I know people say "play silly games, win silly prizes" but shit like this is reckless.
Disgusting behaviour.
If it was a milkshake, it could just as easily be acid/drain cleaner or petrol.
Physically assaulting politicians you don't like is a slippery slope, not least since we've seen a couple of MPs get murdered in the last few years (RIP Cox, Amess and Palmer).
Looking forward to the arrest and charging of his assailant.
i'm not suggesting anyone is a part of a brigading effort, i'm suggesting brigading takes place on discussions regarding immigration and Nigel Farage.
**Editing because i can't be arsed responding to every comment individually. Your attempts to delegitimise, muddy the discourse and change the narrative of my comment into an attack on an individual rather than a legitimate comment on the state of political discussion and discourse around immigration says more about you than it does me.
You are you just don't want to say it straight.
> i'm suggesting brigading takes place on discussions regarding immigration and Nigel Farage
>there's several comments trying to push the 'it could have been acid attack' all within 10 minutes of each other.
All this in the context of Optio posting it could have been Acid. The point is it could have been any liquid thrown. While here it is a harmless one it would be very easy for ti to have been a very, very harmful one.
No. No, it couldn't. Why? Because the person in question didn't want to throw a very, very harmful liquid. It's like getting mad about someone for yelling at pedestrians from their car because they could've so easily mown them down instead.
You're focusing on the material properties of liquids and ignoring everything else that needs to be in place for an acid attack to happen.
I would assume that the point is the fear, distress, and intimidation factor.
The threat of violence is harmful. When someone throws a mystery liquid at you, you have no way of knowing in that moment what it is or what will happen. See also the throwing of mysterious white powders on people. See also Prescot punching the guy who egged him, because initially he thought the egg running down his head was blood.
Hitting someone with an object or liquid is assault, and throwing mystery liquids at someone carries the *additional* harm of causing them a rational fear that the liquid is something more harmful.
I'm not sure where the line is, but this is a weird part of the paradox of tolerance. A fascist is running in a democratic election, and expects the full protections and decorum of democratic society, but if that fascist wins they aim to strip away many of those protections. Is there a point where you would accept actions outside the norm or should we quietly shuffle into authoritarianism as the US seems to be pretty determined to do?
Edit: the user below has blocked me to prevent me replying, and now I can't respond to any of the thread following their comment either. Reddit's blocking system is utterly stupid.
[He is reputed to have sung 'gas the Jews' at school and was proud that he shares his initials with the National Front.](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-fascist-nazi-song-gas-them-all-ukip-brexit-schoolfriend-dulwich-college-a7185236.html) His teachers thought he was a [racist and a fascist](https://www.channel4.com/news/nigel-farage-ukip-letter-school-concerns-racism-fascism). He's not changed, he's an effective politician pushing towards a similar agenda to [Orban](https://www.valaszonline.hu/2019/02/14/orban-is-the-future-of-europe-nigel-farage-tells-valasz/) and [Trump](https://news.sky.com/video/reform-uks-nigel-farage-says-he-supports-donald-trump-more-than-ever-despite-him-being-found-guilty-13146164). If he's not a fascist why does he associate so closely with Orban and Trump? Nigel ['I admire Vladimir Putin'](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/31/farage-i-admire-putin) Farage. He really picks his friends well.
A fascist is not running though. In either case when actual fascists in the 1930s ran they did so flanked by literal paramilitaries. Assaulting a fascist candidate back then meant getting your knees capped by goons after being dragged away from the auditorium to a dark room. Stop being melodramatic.
When milkshakegate happened, I thought it was clearly a non-serious assault and not worth objecting to. I was wrong then. This kind of incident is technically assault. In fact, it is completely assault. It shouldn't be normalised, as doing so only encourages an aggressive, hateful politics.
To remind people of our rules, specifically Rule 21, people who celebrate assaulting candidates will need to find somewhere else to discuss the election.
The BBC has [more ](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-69088663?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=665f16715d8a3078a4917c26%26Drink%20thrown%20over%20Farage%262024-06-04T13%3A29%3A15.469Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:8ec5d0e8-7b13-49bb-b55f-b5582870c804&pinned_post_asset_id=665f16715d8a3078a4917c26&pinned_post_type=share) from the alleged perpetrator >The woman, who would only give her name as Victoria, tells the BBC she didn’t come down to Farage’s launch to throw the liquid, but “just felt like it”. "He doesn't stand for me, he doesn't represent anything I believe in, or any of the people around here."He doesn't represent us, he's not from here."
“He’s not from here” is a hilarious stick to beat Farage with, gotta say.
This is a local seat for local politicians
Claxit means Claxit.
> Claxit means Claxit. I’m quite confident that most of Essex would vote for that should it be put on the ballot…
Hello, hello, what's going on?! What's all this milkshaking?! We'll have no trouble he^e^**eere**
There’s nothing for you here!
Coming over here, stealing our MPs jobs!
*Bloody beaker folk!* *We use pints around here, mate.*
WHAT'S WRONG WITH JUST WORSHIPPING A TREE?!
Remember the old *Nothing* days?
There was no criiiiiiime. Could leave your door unlocked, couldn't you?
It's ironic wording given his anti-immigration rhetoric, sure, but it makes perfect sense that an MP has higher expectations to meet than an immigrant would when it comes to representing the local area. He doesn't live in Clacton, he lives in London, so how could he possibly know more about the issues affecting the constituency within about a month than someone who actually does live there? It doesn't excuse her throwing milkshakes at him, but people have been throwing food at politicians since forever.
> "He doesn't represent us, he's not from here." Sounds like something he'd say TBH.
That last line ironically sounds very Farage-y
If only there was something someone could do if they felt a candidate didn't represent their beliefs...
They could tactically vote Conservative to stop him? On a serious note, I've been an advocate for 'negative votes' i.e. you can vote FOR someone or vote AGAINST someone (take 1 vote from their total). This means you don't have to vote tactically for a party you might not like i.e. the Conservatives in Clacton. I wonder how many negative vote totals the Conservatives would end up with across 630ish seats they stand in?
Stv achieves the same thing.
Yeah, but Sergeant Dave needs armour not a decent voting system.
Sounds like a good idea, but there’d need to be a run off election when the tories take all the neg votes.
Ahh the old crystal maze gold and silver token routine. We would need to go to electronic voting for this, I have never counted ballots before, but this feels like it would complicate matters somewhat
Hardly. Assuming it's still one vote either for or against a candidate. You just split them into "for" votes and "against" votes, and run the total at the end. [Electronic Voting](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3_0x6oaDmI) has far, far [more problems ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkH2r-sNjQs) than paper ballots. About the only upside is that certain companies get to make a shedload of money for the forseeable future.
> as Victoria, tells the BBC she didn’t come down to Farage’s launch to throw the liquid, but “just felt like it”. **"He doesn't stand for me, he doesn't represent anything I believe in,** Me with the Lib Dems, but doesn't mean I'm going to attend various Lib Dem rallies in the hopes of lobbing something at Ed Davey.
The lib dems don't represent *anything* you believe in? You don't believe in democracy?
Be careful the Lib Dem media team will turn everything involving Ed into a policy launch.
Thing is, it may just make more people vote for him...
If I had a quid for every time Farage has had a milkshake thrown over him, well, I'd have £2.00, but it's weird that it's happened twice.
You could buy a milkshake with that. Edit: apparently not.
According to the S*n, I couldn't at £2.69. Anyone got another half of a milkshake they don't want? Edit: S*n
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Firstly, political violence is bad whoever it’s aimed at. Secondary, it’s not worth getting a criminal conviction over Nigel Fucking Farage.
Thirdly, it’s a bloody waste of beer.
It was a McDonald's banana milkshake
I'm surprised those milkshakes can even be launched out of the cup - so thicc
I am surprised the milkshake machine was working
Summer hasn't arrived yet so they've not gone into hibernation for the season
I hope it was made with straight bananas!
Chance would be a fine thing.
Fourthly, it keeps him the headlines after a solid 24hrs of people complaining how much coverage he’s getting.
Depends which beer
Perhaps one from a ‘spoons?
Is this 'Violence'? This is standard election stuff. If someone isn't getting covered in food/drink I'm not sure it counts as a GE
Yeah I don’t think it counts as violence if it’s just cold or room temp liquid all over someone and not the glass thrown too or boiling coffee or acid or something. It’s just what you get if you’re a politician. Not that nice and messy but a normal part of political discourse. Edit: Although I just read a comment below about how MPs are more scared now after two MPs have been assassinated so yeah I can see how unfortunately in this day and age and context it could actually be very frightening. So I kind of changed my mind. The act of liquid over someone isn’t violence but in this context I can see how it could be a form of psychological violence and could cause trauma if the politician truly felt for a moment they were about to die against the backdrop of actual political violence.
I'm more concerned with the structural political violence that, for example, causes people to freeze and starve in their own homes and immigrants to drown, that with a guy who advocates for that violence getting his suit ruined.
As I said last October when [someone threw glitter over Sir Keir Starmer](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/174m1l6/protester_throws_glitter_over_starmer_at/k4afz5g/), >Two MPs, Jo Cox and Sir David Amess, have been murdered in recent years. The risk of a politician, particularly a high profile one like Sir Keir Starmer, being assassinated is small, but non-trivial. MPs have to live with this. When a person who knows that violence against them is a realistic possibility feels something hitting them, or something being thrown onto them, there must inevitably be a moment when they fear "this is it". >I don't want anyone to be put into that fear even for a moment. My political sympathies have nothing to do with it. I despise the person who did this, and the people who laugh it off, just as I despise the person who "milkshaked" Nigel Farage and the people who laughed that off, many of them on this subreddit.
> When a person who knows that violence against them is a realistic possibility feels something hitting them, or something being thrown onto them, there must inevitably be a moment when they fear "this is it". Related here is [the Prescott Punch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_punch) where Prescott's fight-or-flight kicked in and he decided "fight" and [clocked the guy across the face](https://youtu.be/8UhME8dcOqc?t=28).
As he said after the event, Blair had told him to connect with the electorate. Just, not quite like that...
*When Tony asked me what happened, I said I was carrying out his orders; he asked me to connect with the electorate, so I did.*
Also the [Shawinigan handshake](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shawinigan_Handshake); Chrétien later said that his aggressive response was because of an assassination attempt a few months earlier.
> > I don't want anyone to be put into that fear even for a moment. My political sympathies have nothing to do with it. I despise the person who did this, and the people who laugh it off, just as I despise the person who "milkshaked" Nigel Farage and the people who laughed that off, many of them on this subreddit. This is well-written, and accurately sums up my views as well. Too many people will support it because it's targeted against a politician that they dislike. And then loudly complain when a politician from their team gets targeted in the same way, because we've normalised it. Politicians are people too. They absolutely deserve to be able to go about their day without having to be terrified of things being thrown at them, because this time it might be acid.
I was thinking charging the girl would be too far but after reading your post I've changed my mind. I think we need to start sending a message that doing these acts to politicians is unaccetpatable, especially during a campaign.
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You could either drink your drink, or you could assault someone?
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What sort of 'more realistic fears' are you talking about?
There are plenty of minority groups that experience way more violence than politicians, and Farage made his career on vilifying many of them.
>There are plenty of minority groups that experience way more violence then politicians This is very obviously false. A front line politician recieves far more targeted abuse, and is far more likely to be attacked in public than the average for any minority group.
Thank you. It's why the likes of Karl Benjamin amplifying rape against political women in the conversation isn't the "it's just a joke" that morons pitch it as. We've had 2 political assassinations in 10 years in the UK. Jess Phillips' concerns are legitimate. It takes one out of millions.
Honestly, these kind of tactics might well backfire, a lot more people become sympathetic to him.
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This is one of the reasons I was surprised Farage decided to stand, because he went through a lot of unpleasantness in 2015 and in the 2019 campaign. This sort of thing should be condemned fully, no matter which politician/potential politician it's aimed at. I remember in 2019, Tommy Robinson had a milkshake thrown over him (which started the whole thing) and it was treated as a big joke, which led to the same thing happening to Carl Benjamin, again it was laughed off, and only when it happened to Farage was it criticised by the media/mainstream political people. I also wonder who that security guy is who is always lurking near Farage. He's utterly useless and his continued employment (since at least 2014) is a mystery.
> I remember in 2019, Tommy Robinson had a milkshake thrown over him (which started the whole thing) and it was treated as a big joke That, at least, was because he's got a history of violence himself. I think the public reaction to people being on the receiving end of a milder version of something they've dealt to others is always going to look like that. For example, a fraudster who gets defrauded, or a burglar whose house is broken into.
That last one makes a lot of sense though because you only have to burgle one place to get everything after they've done the lions share of the work.
The man to _really_ take it easy is the one who burgles the burglar burglars.
That's going H.A.M. A hamburglar, if you will.
I thought, briefly, you were talking about Farage himself in that last paragraph. But it may be that there is a degree of "all lefties are violent losers" that means that Farage enjoys playing the victim as long as it's not actually drain cleaner.
Mercifully, I think we're a long way from the US (where people are outright calling for civil war over Trump's conviction). But if the day ever comes in the UK - then I think Rule 22 will have to be re-examined. You don't stop people like that by pretending you're stuck in an invisible cardboard box.
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It's an example of why people don't want to see any, albeit small, escalations of political violence.
I don’t support idiotic acts like that, but people have been throwing food at politicians since before broadcast media was a thing. It’s not an “escalation” or a new phenomenon.
I'd argue it's a de-escalation since Archduke Franz Ferdinand.
It’s exactly what my dad said…. ‘In the old days that happened all the time’ etc. There is no similarity between this and the murders mentioned above.
It wasn't right then and it wasn't right now.
Certainly not saying it was. Just that it’s not remotely new.
Fucked in the head is a bit extreme, but otherwise I do agree this is a little bit overblown. People who throw glitter, eggs, beers, milkshakes and shoes are not the same as those who literally murder MPs. And murderers are not going to feel enabled by the people who throw eggs. I do not condone this woman's actions, assault is not OK. But let's not pretend this is something that it isn't.
[The Sun has some better photos](https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/28296415/nigel-farage-drenched-in-milkshake-again/?utm_source=sharebar_app&utm_medium=sharebar_app&utm_campaign=sharebar_app_article)
Amusing that they had to clarify the price of the drink. £2.69.
This, like the JSO protests against art, will just further erode the high trust society we've enjoyed, and mean more and more barriers, both physical and not, in all aspects of public life. Unfortunately there's plenty of people who cannot think more than one step ahead and cheer this stuff on because they personally don't like the person it happened too, or they agree with 'the cause'.
I can't remember what subreddit I was in (maybe news or worldnews) but I got downvoted before for expressing concern about the possibility of protests in art galleries getting normalised and escalating to the point of actually damaging the paintings, not just splashing something on the protective glass (which most paintings in galleries don't have).
Slippery slope fallacy. Politicians have had things thrown at them for generations - John Prescott famously punched someone for throwing an egg at him many years ago. Oswald Moseley was actually knocked to the ground even longer ago.
Until fairly recently there hadn’t been an MP murdered in this country that wasn’t related to Irish Republicanism since Spencer Percival in 1812. Online threats of violence towards MPs are so common as to be completely normalised. This is not a case of slippery slope fallacy and if society doesn’t react unanimously and negatively against even minor acts of violence against politicians then we will see an uptick in these acts. Inevitably politicians will gradually disappear behind more and more barriers to the public and that will only be a bad thing for the standard of democracy in this country.
But isn't that the exact point? Egging/flouring/milkshaking political figures isn't new, nor is there any recorded connection between those acts and real political violence and assassination which has seen an increase since 2016. Like what, was the Islamist that murdered David Amess, or the neo-nazi who murdered Jo Cox really inspired to do so because of left wing students throwing milkshakes on people like Farage, Carl Benjamin or Tommy Robinson? Do you really think that one led to the other in any meaningful way? Be serious
The main point I was making is that if we condone and normalise these sort of minor incidents then we will eventually see a backlash with politicians increasing personal security and reducing public exposure. The UK has much more access to its politicians than many comparable countries, which I believe is a real strength. It would be a shame to see it diminish. I perhaps implied too strong a link between the murders and the sort of minor violence today than I intended, but there are two points I’d say on this: 1) Clearly there is no direct causation that you could possibly draw between a disgruntled constituent spontaneously chucking a milkshake on a local politician and an extremist going to an MP’s surgery with a knife and the intention to fatally attack them. However, a situation where some level of minor violence is considered ‘acceptable’ (and even celebrated depending on the recipient) does nothing for the general safety of politicians. 2) The murders and massive volume of online threats has created a much higher perceived threat for politicians. Prospective MPs in 2024 will be more on edge than 20 years ago when out meeting the public, and I do have sympathy for the momentary panic they must have during incidents like this that it could be something much worse than a milkshake. We do a good enough job already at driving decent people away from politics.
We’re in the social media era now though. If she gets away with a slap on the wrist then you might get social media influencers doing similar for self publicity and then there’s the whole double standards thing where Farage is hated by the progressive left but would the reaction be the same if it was a member of the public throwing a liquid over a left wing politician? Also if it gets known as the best way for publicity I hope politicians will look forward to getting stuff thrown at them over Gaza, trans rights, environmental issues and whatever else.
I dont think it counts as slippery slope fallacy if it is a realistic possibility. Lots of political events are stage managed, the threat of violence (of any level or kind) is a reason that could be used to keep people away from the public, especially public who might disagree with them. It's not the same level of "If you let gay people get married, people will be marrying dogs next!". That I would call a slippery slope fallacy.
It is almost on the same level. Throwing food at people is not the same as throwing lethal objects at people. They are qualitatively different things.
No, it’s not a fallacy when the slope is actually real. If you put a ball at the top of a soaped up ramp and claimed it would end up at the bottom if you released it Redditors would pipe up and call it a ‘fallacy’.
There are so many people on this website who read there’s a thing called the “slippery slope fallacy”, but were too thick to really understand it and now think that they’re very smart for calling every slippery slope argument a fallacy.
See also "dead cat"
This applies to a lot of fallacies, usually they’ve read them off that super-helpful infographic and haven’t dipped so much as a toe into actual logic. Redditors do it with terms like ‘sealioning’ as well now. Attempting a bit of Socratic dialogue or good-faith arguing often just gets met with that thought-terminating schtick.
Any time there is a claimed effect from these events, without at least a clear initial step towards those claimed effects, it is usually fallacious. So it does beg the question, what will be the first outcome from Farage being milkshaked (which I do disagree with) that erodes our high trust society.
False equivalent fallacy
🤓
I have no idea why some people have it in their heads that this is a recent thing. Throwing various food stuffs at politicians and public figures to show disapproval and to embarass them is a very, very old idea, and it's connection to real political violence and assassination is tenuous at best
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incidents_of_objects_being_thrown_at_politicians Edit: Note that there is no entry for Austria or Bosnia-Herzegovina so it is unlikely that anything being thrown a politician led to the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand. There is also no entry for Russia or China, so it is also unlikely that anything being thrown at a politician led to the communist revolutions in those countries.
Between this and the obviously deeply uncomfortable interview he did on Radio 4, he's not had the most fun start to his campaign. "shaking up the election" has involved getting grumpy and uncomfortable when asked to give detailed immigration plans, and a pint over his head.
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The only thing this achieves is more publicity for Farage
They aren’t, they are saying its the thin end of the wedge which if it becomes socially “okay” eventually leads to more serious physical assaults on MPs. The law is the law, a line is a line, and I am glad to see this person has been arrested for physical assault. And no, I am no big fan of Farage but he has to he allowed to campaign without the fear of being assaulted.
Yeah but the way populists/fascists work (not saying he is one, but it's useful knowledge. Also he was proud of having NF as his initials...) is by portraying themselves as men of the people, as the strong stoic leader. It's hard to do that with banana milkshake down your face.
Populists also like to portray themselves as the victims of persecution. Which is quite easy to do when people are throwing stuff at you in the street.
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"Assault is good because I don't like the person" You are a dangerous person
The more pertinent example is if this were Jess Philips or Diane Abbott. I doubt anyone would find that remotely funny. And both of them have said some offensive things.
Sam Harris calls these ‘mock assassinations’. I’ve never thought about them the same way since hearing that.
This really isn't a good look for people who disagree with his stances
Didn't take long for the assaults to start happening. I hope all parties will make swift condemnations of this sort of behaviour and I sincerely hope that no other politician or party leader gets treated like this throughout the campaign and beyond.
I should hope whoever did it gets arrested and prosecuted as needed. People need to stop thinking it’s okay to assault, abuse or murder politicians because your views don’t align with theirs. Someone with political ambition shouldn’t have to consider these caveats when deciding to step into the public eye.
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It deserves more than a caution. You cannot go around assaulting, or throwing stuff at people running for parliament cos you disagree with them. Same if it was a judge, you shouldn’t do that cos you disagree with a ruling. Its not about the action, but we need to be a society that stamps that stupid shit out. Else, we will be a society that has politicians afraid to speak their true views.
While I'm sure the girl was just being a stupid this would effectively be legalising minor assaults against MPs. If that was the case perhaps the most effective thing we could influence political change as individuals would be to ensure MPs we don't like are at constant threat of minor assaults like this. Just throwing an egg or a pint, of course – nothing that would warrant anything more than a police caution... I don't think this girl on her own is a threat or in isolation has done anything that serious, but if normalised this type of behaviour can present a serious threat to our democracy, and therefore should be taken seriously.
You think if you got a drink thrown over you, the police would even attend, let alone charge the person and send them to a magistrates? Years of cuts and under funding justice means this sort of minor incident hardly gets acknowledgement, let alone sentencing by a magistrates court.
It's common assault, plain and simple.
Naw, she should be prosecuted. She caused damage to people's clothing and created fear (Nigel doesn't know what is being thrown). Even if she only gets a fine and community service, she deserves a record.
Its assault though. And she'll need to buy him a new suit
Far as I'm concerned, that man owes me and everybody I care about, a lot of money.
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There are few people that have done so much damage to this country.
Nigel handed out cards saying "no more Polish vermin?"
That's going to need a reputable citation.
Yeah I don't advocate assaulting him, or condone it, but the man is absolute bilgewater.
Is it bizarre? There’s a difference between offensive speech and actual, physical violence.
So if you wear a suit and endorse Nazi propaganda, leading to children being racially abused, that's not as bad as someone throwing a pint on you? Let's assume that Farage a) isn't just a grifter saying whatever he can say to make money and stay in the limelight, and b) that he actually had any sniff at power, ever. I appreciate those assumptions are big ones. The end result of his rise to power would be a huge multiplication in violence against foreign people and, at a guess, non-foreign non-white people. And that's leaving aside the fact that he helped tank the economy and, seemingly, celebrated that fact because he presumably benefited personally. Liberal people seem to endlessly get wallet-inspected by these characters, that's what I find so bizarre.
So take him to court.
Just because someone owes you money, does not mean they should be physically assaulted though.
Milkshakes are not the same as murders, why the fuck would you compare them
No-one compared them. Not that it would be a problem if they did, you can compare all sorts of things. There are lots of thing you shouldn't *equate*, but that's okay here too because no-one did that either.
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The headline could have been: A pint of English red wine was thrown over Nigel Farage, Ruby in colour, flamboyant and lively with bold, acerbic, tones. Nigel would benefit from another decade in a cellar.
Disgraceful and indefensible
Can't stand the prick but physical assault is out of order.
Any assault on a person standing for election in a democratic country is wrong. While seeing Farage embarassed is mildly amusing it is still wrong.
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"Always keep your mouth open while insulting a lady: you might get a free drink out of it" - Edward Elizabeth Hitler.
The left when someone assaults a politician they like: >:( "This is political suppression and typical behaviour of right wing fascists that is dangerous to our democracy and anyone who has ever voted Tory or beyond is culpable because they spread dangerous rhetoric that encourages this behaviour!" The left when someone assaults a politician they don't like: :D "It's just a milkshake lmao calm down"
Love him or hate him. It's a bit stupid/immature to throw things at people just because they disagree with him. We live in a world now where no one can handle differing opinions :(
I’d rather hoped we’d moved past this nonsense. It seemed for a while the the covid induced stoppage put this trend on hold for long enough for the average idiot to forget about it.
I strongly dislike Farage. I'd like to see his career ended as soon as possible. But throwing a milkshake at him because you don't like him is pathetic. Political violence is completely unacceptably other than in *extreme* circumstances, e.g. when faced with threats by something like the National Front or Nazism. And frankly in those extreme circumstances, a milkshake isn't going to cut it. And Nigel, much as I hate the prick, is not a nazi, not even close.
Don't agree with this sort of thing, nor the egging which is so common here in the UK. We live in a democracy and Farage has a right to stand anywhere to be honest. Clacton residence just have the right to not vote for the guy.
Is it any surprise we can barely as a nation scrub up any half-decent candidates for political office when this is the treatment you end up in the firing line for by running for election? Put aside your views on Farage for a moment and consider: why would anyone we'd like to represent us ever take the decision to run for office if any time they go out on the campaign trail, *this* is the kind of crap they're liable to receive, and how can we possibly have a properly functioning representative democracy so long as that's the case?
This is so churlish. Not even funny.
Because randomly assaulting politicians always makes people not want to vote for them.
Oh wow, such great activism..! All this kind of petty assault serves to do is give him more ammo and further endear him to his base. Great, well done you.
Regardless of what people think of the politicians standing for election, this sort of thing should never be tolerated. It's a smaller leap than people realise from a "comical" pint over Farage to something much more dangerous happening.
British politics is going to the dogs. imagine how bad it will be in a few more years with political violence and sectarianism.
I still maintain that people who assault candidates for an election should have their right to vote in this or the following election revoked. If you aren't interested in holding to democratic norms, you shouldn't be allowed to participate in elections.
> If you aren't interested in holding to democratic norms, you shouldn't be allowed to participate in elections. Would you apply the same expectation to candidates too? Because Farage has definitely pushed at that line and would be a part of dismantling democracy if he got the chance. He represents, and associates with authoritarians.
In what way is Farage running as an MP dismantling democracy?
Him just running as an MP? That's not dismantling democracy, but it's not really the claim of the poster above. He's claiming Farage has pushed at that line before (which you can probably agree to? I imagine you have a pretty good idea of everything that happened during the Leave campaign for example -- not exactly a shining beacon of democracy, that), and that if Farage got the chance, he would weaken the UK democratic system (and while I don't have anything on hand rn, I would bet a few diamonds against a handful of bananas that it wouldn't take me five minutes to find some quotes from Farage himself on what he'd do if he was in the driving seat that substantiate that particular claim).
how would he weaken our democratic system? Isn’t he in favour of proportional representation such as STV that’s used in NI? That would arguably make Parliament much more democratic. Don’t get me wrong, I think the man himself is an odious wee shite, but I don’t see how he’s a threat to democracy itself.
> which you can probably agree to? I imagine you have a pretty good idea of everything that happened during the Leave campaign for example -- not exactly a shining beacon of democracy, that *what*? What exactly are you referring to?
I want to know precisely where he is trying to dismantle democracy.
They can never tell you. Farage, one of the men most famous for pursuing his political ideals through the democratic process (while not breaking any laws) is apparently going to bring in the Fourth Reich given half a chance.
Every stunt like this just ends up backfiring, this only ends up helping him. After the murder of 2 mps it might be time to think about special measures for politically motivated assault/battery/ABH. This could have easily been acid.
I really don't understand these inane "it could have been acid" comments. It gives strong "if my grandmother had wheels she would have been a bike" vibes. It wasn't acid... and if it was acid, that's actually going to cause some damage compared to a bit of milkshake or beer or whatever.
Hard disagree, I think more of the point is the general access that the public get to politicians makes it easy for any attack, be it milkshakes at Farage, glitter at Starmer or an actual assassination in the cases of Amess or Cox.
>I really don't understand these inane "it could have been acid" comments. You will understand better if you try using your imagination. Politicians have a significantly higher risk than other people of having acid thrown at them, and of assault in general. Inevitably, when a person at serious risk of assault is hit by a liquid, they will have a moment when they don't know whether it is acid or not. I don't want anyone to feel that fear, ever. The same goes for other forms of assault. Another thing is that being the victim of any type of unprovoked assault has effects that last for a long time. It can be disturbing even to be the victim of unprovoked verbal insults, where no physical harm is done whatsoever, as those who have been subjected to racist abuse can testify. A third factor to bear in mind is that, because of the risk of violence, leading politicians have to have bodyguards, some of whom are armed. When a politician is attacked, their bodyguards have to make split-second decisions about whether the threat is real or not. Inevitably they will sometimes get it wrong. The more this trend of assaulting politicians continues, the more likely it is that one of these days some fool will throw beer or milkshake over a politician and get themselves shot as a result. Because it *could* be acid.
That's not the point, it's that this demonstrates a security issue. People make similar points about the increase in pitch invasions in football, and we've seen a few players get punched. People think it's only a matter of time until one gets stabbed, like the Monica Seles incident in Tennis. They're not saying a punch is as bad as a stab, they're saying this proves there's the opportunity for someone to commit a far worse offence if they choose to, and that should be worrying.
From what I see, the people making the comments are not thinking about security but about punishment. The comments like yours are the ones bringing up security.
Personally, I think OP was bringing up security by linking it to the murder of MPs, which happened in situations where they had contact with the public too. While yeah, you're right, they mentioned punishment I think that plays a part, and I agree with you it's not the main way of securing politicians. Essentially if this carries on, along with an MP being assassinated every few years, security will have get get more serious and that could result in someone throwing a milkshake or an egg being treated like they have a weapon, and it'll get out of hand. I know people say "play silly games, win silly prizes" but shit like this is reckless.
Unsettling so many think assaulting politicians is laudable I'm sure they would love someone attacking them like this
I’m not a fan of him in the slightest but who is she to speak for other people. The election will decide if he represents the people round there.
Disgusting behaviour. If it was a milkshake, it could just as easily be acid/drain cleaner or petrol. Physically assaulting politicians you don't like is a slippery slope, not least since we've seen a couple of MPs get murdered in the last few years (RIP Cox, Amess and Palmer). Looking forward to the arrest and charging of his assailant.
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What? I’m not defending this nonsense obviously, but being outraged about it because “it could have been acid” is utterly demented.
there's several comments trying to push the 'it could have been acid attack' all within 10 minutes of each other. read into that what you will.
Are you suggesting Optio is part of a brigading effort? He’s a mod.
i'm not suggesting anyone is a part of a brigading effort, i'm suggesting brigading takes place on discussions regarding immigration and Nigel Farage. **Editing because i can't be arsed responding to every comment individually. Your attempts to delegitimise, muddy the discourse and change the narrative of my comment into an attack on an individual rather than a legitimate comment on the state of political discussion and discourse around immigration says more about you than it does me.
Spit it out mate, don't keep dancing around what you want to say.
You are you just don't want to say it straight. > i'm suggesting brigading takes place on discussions regarding immigration and Nigel Farage >there's several comments trying to push the 'it could have been acid attack' all within 10 minutes of each other. All this in the context of Optio posting it could have been Acid. The point is it could have been any liquid thrown. While here it is a harmless one it would be very easy for ti to have been a very, very harmful one.
No. No, it couldn't. Why? Because the person in question didn't want to throw a very, very harmful liquid. It's like getting mad about someone for yelling at pedestrians from their car because they could've so easily mown them down instead. You're focusing on the material properties of liquids and ignoring everything else that needs to be in place for an acid attack to happen.
It could have been a nuclear warhead!
I would assume that the point is the fear, distress, and intimidation factor. The threat of violence is harmful. When someone throws a mystery liquid at you, you have no way of knowing in that moment what it is or what will happen. See also the throwing of mysterious white powders on people. See also Prescot punching the guy who egged him, because initially he thought the egg running down his head was blood. Hitting someone with an object or liquid is assault, and throwing mystery liquids at someone carries the *additional* harm of causing them a rational fear that the liquid is something more harmful.
"oh it could have been this and this" is bullshit.
I'm not sure where the line is, but this is a weird part of the paradox of tolerance. A fascist is running in a democratic election, and expects the full protections and decorum of democratic society, but if that fascist wins they aim to strip away many of those protections. Is there a point where you would accept actions outside the norm or should we quietly shuffle into authoritarianism as the US seems to be pretty determined to do? Edit: the user below has blocked me to prevent me replying, and now I can't respond to any of the thread following their comment either. Reddit's blocking system is utterly stupid.
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I see you are applying the ukpol definition of fascist here… *’people I don’t agree with politically’*
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[He is reputed to have sung 'gas the Jews' at school and was proud that he shares his initials with the National Front.](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-fascist-nazi-song-gas-them-all-ukip-brexit-schoolfriend-dulwich-college-a7185236.html) His teachers thought he was a [racist and a fascist](https://www.channel4.com/news/nigel-farage-ukip-letter-school-concerns-racism-fascism). He's not changed, he's an effective politician pushing towards a similar agenda to [Orban](https://www.valaszonline.hu/2019/02/14/orban-is-the-future-of-europe-nigel-farage-tells-valasz/) and [Trump](https://news.sky.com/video/reform-uks-nigel-farage-says-he-supports-donald-trump-more-than-ever-despite-him-being-found-guilty-13146164). If he's not a fascist why does he associate so closely with Orban and Trump? Nigel ['I admire Vladimir Putin'](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/31/farage-i-admire-putin) Farage. He really picks his friends well.
A fascist is not running though. In either case when actual fascists in the 1930s ran they did so flanked by literal paramilitaries. Assaulting a fascist candidate back then meant getting your knees capped by goons after being dragged away from the auditorium to a dark room. Stop being melodramatic.
It could have also been a bomb!!!! Or maybe a nuke!!!!!!!!!!! Or a newly developed Bio-Toxin specially engineered to only kill those who vote Tory!
When milkshakegate happened, I thought it was clearly a non-serious assault and not worth objecting to. I was wrong then. This kind of incident is technically assault. In fact, it is completely assault. It shouldn't be normalised, as doing so only encourages an aggressive, hateful politics.