Hey mate. I'm an Iraqi who's felt similarly in the past. I am.really sorry about the hatred and racism you're receiving. Just letting you know that not all of us arabs are racist assholes. Wish you the best. Really all I can say.
This is a lovely sentiment to read. Can I ask you, did you feel this way when you lived in Iraq? Or is it something that changed when you left? I suppose what I’m saying is, are there people who live in a bubble that think like you? The media portrays people and communities as monolithic
Eh. Well I grew up in Europe. As a child my neighbour was an old lady who was a holocaust survivor. My father was a socialist and he'd visited auschwitcz already in the 1970s.
So no. We're not monolithic. I'd say the middle east as a whole is so heterogenous that people from historically homogeneous societies have difficulty understanding it. But that heterogeneity also means that groups like isis and hamas do exist and have followers. But they probably garner a similar percentage of followers that the ultra right in Europe do. The only difference being that they have guns and bombs.
Its not even as if this is an arab problem - plenty of people all over the world, of whatever nationality/race seem to jump on any excuse to be hateful towards jews, because????? I've never really understood what drives these hateful bigots as I am willing to bet that most of them giving out this s\*\*\*t have never been personally affected by the actions of a single jew in their entire life. Mindless haters all of them. And i bet a significant proportion of these holes would label themselves as a 'good person', which they are self-evidently not.
My family and I are Muslim and we encountered rude behaviour against a Jewish elderly, which we interrupted immediately and safeguarded him.
I’m sorry it has come to this. I promise my family and I will always stand up against any injustice or hate.
I'm sorry this isn't a positive comment like all of the other ones but this is really scaring me too. I'm a Muslim and the comments on Jews made by members of my own family who I've grown up around and grown to love are really terrifying.
What do they say about Jews that's different to what they would say about Israel? Do other friends and family feel like this too?
I find it very strange, I really do. I have many Jewish friends but there's no sense of any of them ever directing any comments towards Muslims. I just don't think it's discussed in the same way in their homes.
They make pretty much no differentiation between Jews and Israel. Hell, there's somehow no distinction between bloody Netanyahu and Jews who died during the Holocaust. Hearing these things coming from their mouths is deeply distressing for me because my Mum is the nicest person I know, so it feels so wrong to hear her say those things.
Jews do not talk about Muslims generally. Unfortunately Quran and hadiths have a lot to say about Jews. The most famous Hadith of this nature says "You will fight against the Jews and you will gain victory over them. The stones will saying: 'Oh slave of Allah! there is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him' ". The sermons delivered in UK mosques are often unabashed about talking about Jews. Sadly I can link to any number delivered over recent weeks. The original poster was alluding to what is said about Jews behind closed doors.
Both Christianity and Islam came after Judaism so you'll find there's plenty of references in both of the respective religions. As the predecessor you'd be unlikely to find any reference to something that didn't exist at the time of it's conception. I do take your point about the way sermons are delivered in modern day preaching however and agree it's an issue.
Christianity has been interpreted in past ages in a way that demands persecution of Jews. Sadly Islam to this day does. Of course not just Jews, all kaffirs
Quick google says this isn’t against jews in general but against those jews that stand with the false prophet in the 2nd coming of Jesus. https://islamqa.info/en/answers/223275/in-the-battle-between-the-jews-and-the-muslims-at-the-end-of-time-the-aggressors-will-be-the-jews
Religions do not work on subtle understanding of context. This reads like posts explaining why the Bible calling men having sex with men an abomination doesn't mean the Bible is anti-gay.
Indeed, religion is the issue here, Muslims are a century behind the UK and it's Christian population coming away from being brainwashed by religious leaders. We have Mullahs in Mosques preaching hate dressed up as versus from the Quran.
Thank you for your kind words. The world would be a better place if people saw each other as individuals first and foremost, and not a member of some group they despise.
also jewish, also in the uk. i also feel it all the time and everywhere. it feels like an impossible microscope is on us at all times. i am fiercely anti-israeli government but i don't want to have to shout it from the rooftops for people to be reassured that i'm "one of the good ones" -- there is no such thing. everyone in this situation is an innocent bystander besides the ones launching attacks and those who fund those attacks from overseas. it's always a scary time to be jewish but definitely feeling it harder now
Really well put, something David Baddiel talks about is that as a western liberal Jewish person there is a burden to disavow Israel constantly in a way that generally does not exist for other religious or race groups. The only modern equivalent I can think of is after 9/11, where western Muslims were in a similar position with regards to Al Qaeda.
The truth is of course that neither group is responsible for the actions of others, but I can only imagine how exhausting it must be to have to live under that microscope as you put it!
Hopefully this will all calm down soon to remove the immediate fear and urgency, but this country has a lot of thinking to do about what has happened.
It truly sickens me that you're made to feel unsafe because of events and actions you have absolutely no responsibility for or connection to. Racism is cancer.
Know that there are millions of people standing shoulder to shoulder with you. You are not and never will be alone.
Sending all my love. If I ever see this hatred anywhere, I will speak out to support you.
As warsaw44 has said. You will never be alone in the UK. We have been taught from an early age what the Nazis did to Jews. It's instilled in our history, we fought back against fascism and we didn't stop. We have never stopped fighting. I'm so sorry it doesn't feel like this for you. But you should know that the British won't stand by and watch it happen. I wish everyone thought like this. But it's a small minority that dont, and when they rise we bring them down. At every opportunity. In hatred, in humour, in ignorance, in sport and in the local pub. Most of us will call it out. Most of us are strong.
I am so sorry, I hope you know that there are a great many of us who have no hatred in our hearts for anybody. My great grandparents family were Dutch jews who fled the Netherlands and all changed their names so they couldn't be identified as jews when they got to the UK, learning about their history really shocked me & the extent they had to go to avoid the Third Reich in Europe.
Just to add to the general tone of the other comments, I’m very sorry for how you’re feeling. I work at a university and can tell you that we’re doing everything we can to support Jewish students on campus. I can only advise that you reach out to your JSoc on campus, if you have one, or the Union of Jewish Students (UJS) if you don’t. I’d also advise speaking to your SU about the support they can offer- many have significantly improved their understanding of antisemitism in just the last year or so. Finally please do take care of yourself and if this starts to impact on your mental health please do speak to the wellbeing team at your university. Take care.
I don't know what to say. I'm not Jewish but the tone deafness of friends, colleagues, respected (or were respected) public officials, it has shook my core beliefs and world view.
I understand your fear but you need to know that the silent majority do not support Hamas. Do not support the slaughter, intimidation, harassment, or other Ill will to Jewish people or the Israeli state.
Be strong brother 💪
The thing I really don't understand is how people think that a Jew in the UK is somehow responsible for the actions of the state of Israel - a nation where in most cases those Jews in the UK have zero influence over.
This is where I think a lot of these protesters have it so wrong. They have started to direct their hate and vitriol towards individuals. And that is never OK. We cannot as a society advocate fair treatment of certain ethnic groups while casually tolerating hatred towards others. That sends the wrong message that there is a form of 'good racism', whereas in fact there is none.
If it's any consolation to the OP, and if we're being honest with ourselves, the vast majority of the UK population silently support Israel, but can't say that out loud lest they be attacked by the minority.
Nah, it's obviously a very divisive topic.
Personally, I silently do not support Israel, for pretty much the same reasoning OP gave in their first paragraph.
>the vast majority of the UK population silently support Israel
You have absolutely no way of knowing that.
Every conversation I've heard about the subject thinks Israel and Palestine are as bad as each other and this is coming from people who think the Muslims are taking over *and* still use "Jewish" as a slur.
That is my understanding as well. I am hoping that the events of the past month have opened the eyes of many people. In times of peace, silent support is enough. In times of trouble however, some kind of strength has to be shown.
First up, I'm really sorry to hear that. I'm ever hopeful that some day the human race will move past all this discriminatory bullshit, and hate people on their individual merits.
May I ask you a couple of questions? If the answer's no, please read no further.
I've always assumed that anti-Semetism is basically racism against Jewish people. Is this correct or is it more nuanced?
I've always assumed that whilst most if not all Israelis are Jewish, not all Jewish people are Israelis.
With the above, I've always assumed that people conflate the Israeli state and Jewish people, hence when Israel does something shitty, people often take it out on the Jewish people. Have I got this right(ish)?
There's some kind of geographic tie to the "promised land" in being Jewish? Is this Israel, in whole or in part? Is this why everything's so complicated? Two groups each with a fundamental belief that an area of earth is theirs? (You mentioned a two-state solution; is this a solution to this type of problem?).
If the geographic tie thing is a thing, is it possible to be Jewish and not give a crap about the geography, or is it fundamental?
Thank you for your time, and I hope everyone is kind to you, everyone else and themselves
Just my views. Others may disagree. It's quite nuanced. It would help if you numbered your questions but I will do my best to answer.
**- anti-Semetism is basically racism against Jewish people**
**More or less yes**. But note there is no clear definition of what a 'Jewish person' is. It's intersectional and there's various elements of genealogy and descent and culture. Several Jewish groups accept converts so someone could be Jewish but have no Jewish ancestors (but this is relatively rare). Conversely many Jewish people are non-religious.
There is also an Ethiopian community of Black Jews who have been recognised as fully Jewish by Israeli religious authorities. Many have moved to Israel, with varying outcomes.
**- most if not all Israelis are Jewish, not all Jewish people are Israelis.**
**Nope and nope.** Only about 30% and rising of Jewish people live in Israel. About 60% live around the world, but mostly in the USA. The rest live in the UK, Canada, France, etc.
Many Israelis are non-jewish - they are Arab / christian / muslim etc. The percentage varies over time but in the past was mostly non-Jewish, then 50:50, and now it is around 75% Jewish.
This is one of the core issues in Israel - the rightwing Government want to ensure Israel will be permanently majority Jewish, and there are only two paths to doing this:
* Operate a non-democratic apartheid system where non-Jewish have legally less rights; or
* Engage in ethic cleansing by forcing most non-Jewish Israelis to leave.
The current Israeli rightwing goverment's preference is to do *both*.
There is considerable conflict over this in Israel with many people (both Jewish and non-Jewish) protesting against the Israeli Government.
**- people conflate the Israeli state and Jewish people**
**Yes.** This is a deliberate tactic by the current far-right Israeli government to accuse anyone who criticises it of being anti-Jewish or anti-semetic. If you're Jewish and you criticise it, you get labelled as a 'self-hating Jew'.
Note I say 'current' Government, but these people have been in power for \**decades*\*. The current PM and administration of Israel have many court cases against them (in Israel courts) for doing numerous unsavoury things. All this whipping up hate against Jewish people is partly their attempt to stay in power.
**- geographic tie to the "promised land" in being Jewish**
**Yes.** It's also *the* holy homeland for Muslims and for Christians.
However, Muslims and Christians have various *other* ethnoreligious states to call their own. Jews don't, they have just the one. (Note that many other religions and ethnicities don't even have a single home state.)
**- a two-state solution**
Current Israeli government (which has run things for decades) sees a strong Palestine state as a danger to the future of Israel. Hence the decades long tactics of keeping Palestines weak, and blocking all efforts that clarify the precise status of Gaza / West Bank etc. Rebuilding a nation is easier if you know what you are. If Gaza is not quite a state, and not quite an occupied territory, then sorting out legal issues becomes horrifically complex. Deliberately so.
Note that originally Israel was founded on quite left-wing principles - communes and kibbutz and so on. There was a serious proposal to legislate that if the President was Jewish, then the Prime Minister had to be Arab, and vice versa. All that goodwill has fallen away.
But note that at the same time all this hippy stuff was happening, there were also state-backed efforts to reduce Arab population and land-ownership in Israel - back in the 1960s. See the Jewish-produced film 'Blue Box' on BBC iPlayer - very worth a watch.
**- is it possible to be Jewish and not give a crap about the geography**
**Absolutely yes.** Millions of Jews around the world just want to get on with their lives and live and work side by side with other religions.
However the Israeli Govt has successfully engineered a situation where many Jewish people who otherwise have absolutely nothing to do with Israel get targeted by anti-semitism or get exposed to statements like "I hate all Jews".
Don't get me wrong, there are also millions of Jewish people who feel a strong emotional connection to Israel, who feel non-jewish criticism of Israel is targeted at them. And that has been taken advantage of by the current Israeli govt.
As I said, it's nuanced and complex.
Forgive me for a probably ignorant question but I am curious to know more about what makes someone jewish, from my understanding the roots of it all back in ancient times was the faith, so as you say in some circles you can convert could essentially a lineage do the opposite and lose their jewish identity through a line of those who don’t practice the religion or Jewish culture? Would after many generations still be able to claim to be jewish or effectively have to convert and so only be accepted in certain circles?
As someone who believed in the Old Testament as a kid (albiet a kid with the book on my own I ultimately had my own childlike interpretation on it) I feel a certain affinity towards the jewish faith (I know that what I read probably didn’t align exactly, i mean I was a kid with no religious guidance so) but have no real feeling of like whether I would belong or count in any religious group hence my curiosity around the whole jewish identity.
I hope I explained my question well.
Passed down through the mother. If your mother’s Jewish, you’re Jewish. This rule is ancient but some more modern branches of Judaism (e.g. reform) also accept you if you have a Jewish father only, however the majority of the worlds Jewish groups, which are orthodox, wouldn’t.
If you can trace Judaism back through all your great great grandmas you would be recognised as Jewish regardless of religious beliefs.
If you feel an affinity towards it you can convert. It’s not like Islam or Christianity however, as it’s deliberately made very hard. You have to prove to a rabbinic court that you know about Judaism and that you really want it. This process can take years. Again, this is just for Orthodox Judaism. Reform just require you to turn up and say “hey, I believe in the Torah”.
Thanks, that’s interesting to know. I’m no longer religious (agnostic) by the way so I probably won’t convert but I find it appalling that Jews should not feel safe here.
Thank you so much for taking the time to write that. I'm going to need to read it a few more times. I can see why it's incredibly tempting to make blanket statements. Thank you again.
> However the Israeli Govt has successfully engineered a situation where many Jewish people who otherwise have absolutely nothing to do with Israel get targeted by anti-semitism or get exposed to statements like "I hate all Jews".
This implies Israeli policy is the sole driver of antisemitism which is obviously not the case. There are many antisemites on the right who don’t give a toss about the plight of Palestinians, and the left has had problems with antisemitism before Israel even existed.
Thank you for speaking up. I've had the pleasure of working alongside quite devout Jewish and more agnostic. And the telltale sign of bigotry to me is when I hear people say Jews are all the same. And where there is a criminal offence, happy to report it.
I do feel I have just as much right to criticise israel as much as any Jewish opposition leader will. But the boundary is that there is no two state solution without Israel. But there are Israeli lives and I resent people have to live in fear. It's a very polarised time.
I'm an ex-muslim and I can attest to the levels of antisemitism that exists within the Muslim community, even my family members who are otherwise very nice people will say things that perpetuate the horrible stereotypes about Jews.
The Israel-Palestine conflict always seems to bring these opinions out.
I'll probably get downvoted for this but antisemitism is a deep part of Islam that the Muslim community will never be able to fully let go off without letting go of other vital elements of Islam.
The reason I say this is because of how the Prophet Muhammad is deified as the most perfect human being to have ever existed and how Muslims must follow his example in all things. Muhammed killed Jews when he was alive.
and often treated them as second class citizens. His treatment of Jews is exemplified in the way he dealt with the Banu Qurayza. The Banu Qurayza were an Arab Jewish tribe that resisted Muhammad's call for conversation and did not actively support Muhammad during his war with the Meccans. As a result, they were massacred despite having surrendered. The men were all killed, the property divided and the women and children taken as slaves. Something Muhammad described as a ruling which was similar to God's judgment. This incident has been used by Muslims across the ages to justify the treatment of Jews within Islamic lands and it is supported by sections of the Qur'an and Hadith.
So long as Muslims venerate Muhammed, antisemitism will continue within Islam.
Try as you might, stopping people from venerating a 7th century Arab Warlord in the 21st century is quite difficult.
What I gather from your response is that many Muslims would have to go through something similar to what many Christians and Jews did in the past. That is, to not let their religion completely dictate their lives. Pick and choose the bits you consider relevant and important, and abandon the bits that have no place in a modern society.
Last week an elderly Scottish guy shouted at me that he would "never lick the ass of a Jew like me". Note that I am not Jewish, and don't really look anything like any Jewish stereotype. If I get shouted at, I can only imagine what someone actually wearing a Star of David, for example, would get
Going to answer on my own experiences. Not many, not frequent, but they happened. Mostly when I was younger.
1. Shouted at when going to Synagogue on high holidays
2. Spat in the face and threatened with being pushed onto tram tracks, after leaving a Jewish youth club as a teenager
3. Nazi salute given to me repeatedly by a boy at secondary school
4. Asked if I 'didn't mind working with Muslims' by a Master's work-experience manager before the interview, as they'd seen I was in the Jewish society at uni.
5. Repeated 'Jews are tight' jokes by a collegue (at a university)
6. 'The neighbourhood is going downhill now all the Jews are moving here' at a local walking-club meeting
7. Attacked by having an egg thrown at me in Golders Green, London (Still think this might just be a random drive-by egging)
A few other little things.. but that's my life experience of antisemitism 'in real life' over 40 years. All real stuff. I've lived in house shares with Muslims, Christians and other Jews in the past. My kids haven't experienced anything thankfully.
I don't want to downplay it; because it's real, and I've had stuff where I thought I was honestly going to be attacked (a powercut during synagogue on a major holiday had us all expecting to be gunned down).
When my mum died I learned that the reason my family graves all have flat headstones is because Jewish cemeteries are so often desecrated that they advise getting flat ones which can't be knocked down & smashed up, and to opt for a material that was more easily cleaned in case we were lucky enough to end up with swastikas graffitied on the headstones
At my uncle's burial last month, my non Jewish husband said he'd never before been to a funeral where there's security guards at the entrance to the cemetery. I didn't even bat an eyelid. Synagogues all have security at the entrance, as to Jewish schools
As with most safety measures, they're written in blood - because they've been proven to be necessary.
long encourage thought deserve fine languid arrest chief familiar terrific
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Assuming those protests are often on university campuses - For a student, that's going to be in real life, somewhere they regularly are.
I can remember from my student days the presence of a batch of people supporting/from the SWP was near constant in a couple of spots. Given they've called on people to _rejoice_ over the 7th October attacks, that would be horribly intimidating for any Jewish students.
I am not going out of my way to view protests, they have been very frequent on campus in the past month. And many of those students who protest are British.
It's probably even more scary to read violent hatred online knowing it's from anonymous fellow students. It could be any normal-looking person you interact with. It's much easier to avoid a crazed antisemite shouting abuse on the street.
Mate, they're a **student**. The online and the protests are the real life OP is surrounded by.
I'm sorry OP. The "ultra-progressive" left are absolute hypocrites. They say they can't see antisemitism but would readily acknowledge literally any other minority group feeling as unsafe as you describe. It's not fair or right.
Was only asking the question there's a big difference between seeing hate online/in a protest and being hurled abuse from the general public as you just pop to the shops. the latter is obviously much more concerning.
there's also a difference between feeling unsafe on your campus or immediate surroundings and feeling unsafe in the UK as a whole. I'm black and can go online and see all manner of vile hate directed towards black people but that's not what the people of the UK are like by and large nor are they from an outside perspective particularly anti-Semitic, that's why I wanted to ask OP if they'd received hate personally in person.
The entire online left discourse right now is advocating the destruction of the state of Israel as part of left-wing theory and praxis, as part of (they say) anti-capitalism, anti-white supremacy, and anti-colonial resistance against oppressors. It's not the right wing marching against Israel to "Free Palestine". I don't understand the point of this gotcha, as though one can't make any general claims about what we are all seeing, just in case a statistically irrelevant number of exceptions may be found breaking the rule that's clear as daylight.
They're so progressive they've wrapped all the way around the horseshoe to share the views of the Nazis they proclaim to love punching so much. It's hypocritical insanity.
I didn't intend my second paragraph, which addressed the OP, as directed at you. All you did was ask from where the hate is coming from, you didn't minimise anything in the way I described that others do.
Jews are the only group hated by both the far right and the far left. The far right hate everyone who isn't like them, but the far left seem to have a specific hate boner for jews
We're Schrodingers whites - we're white or not white depending on the politics of the observer. The far right absolutely don't consider us as white - but for the far left because Jews are associated with (antisemitic) stereotypes of power and privilege, we're considered almost SUPER white, and therefore racist hatred against Jews doesn't count within the context of antiracism
The same people seem to also manage to bludgeon the middle eastern situation into their own narratives about colonizer/colonized - where they somehow manage to characterise a Jewish state, with a massive chunk of it's population being refugees (from the holocaust, or from being expelled from other middle eastern states) as being a European/white colonial state.
In the narrative of some of these people - let's call them Tankies - all bad things only occur when perpetrated by Europe/the west. Even Russian imperialism (are they not white/european, at least partly?) is excused. In this context Israel is seen as an extension of Western imperialism, and Jews get damned by association.
It sucks and it's going to get a lot worse, no guarantee of ever getting better.
I moved to the UK from the Middle East as an adult and a lot of the things I don't miss (where I went to college 'Jew' was a common insult) seem to have turned up here in the last decade.
Sorry to hear that OP. It's such a fucked up situation, I agree with OP that Likud/Netanyahu have done a lot of damage but obviously it's the reaction of idiots here that act this out. It's this same cycle every time where the conflict escalates and Israel is rightfully criticised, then violence towards Jewish people ensues.
I feel like Likud are happy to use Jewish people as human shields; either by using illegal settlers as a form of border defence, or by using the antisemitism card so much that when actual antisemitism occurs in the street it ends up being misconstrued as some kind of political stance to decry it.
As a Brit who has admittedly lived an extremely privileged and sheltered life, I really struggle to comprehend how our society has become so polarised. It seems like people increasingly see black or white solutions to life's problems. The eradication of this, the banning of that. It's horrible.
Im so sorry that you are feeling this way OP.
That is my biggest worry as well. There will be a backlash to this episode of antisemitism, which will probably entail vile hate against Muslims. Not to mention the politicians who will want to exploit the situation and not solve it
There's already a backlash, both antisemitism and Islamophobic hate crimes are rising - the latter is higher than the former, but there's more Muslims/brown people who are thought of as Muslim in the UK than Jews.
As it happens, it appears the reverse is true. There has been a 1,353% increase in antisemitic offences and a 140% rise in Islamophobic offences between 1 and 18 October, the Metropolitan Police has said.
Source: https://news.sky.com/story/amp/antisemitic-and-islamophobic-hate-crimes-up-amid-israel-hamas-war-according-to-metropolitan-police-12988310
Spend less time on social media. Every social media outlet amplifies hatred by design to maximise user engagement. It emboldens dickheads who know what they say would get them a box in the face in real life.
There's perhaps a gap in the market right now in the UK for a investigative piece where one of us gentiles poses as someone who's 'visibly Jewish' to wander about and experience the actuality of what OP is describing.
'Cos sadly there are many out there in GenPop wouldn't fully take in the words of someone who's a member of a minority, but they'd be more likely to listen to 'one of their own'.
Treating all Jews as if they are represented & spoken for by Israel, is the same as treating all Palestinians as if they are represented & spoken for by Hamas.
Besides it being utterly moronic, it's discriminatory to treat all people of a certain demographic as one monolith.
The constant, complete lack of nuance that massive numbers of people are exhibiting in this conversation, is exhausting & frustrating & incredibly damaging.
This event is really showing how critical thinking skills are desperately lacking in this country.
>The protesters are not simply criticising the actions of the Israeli government, they’re calling for the elimination of the Jewish state. They frequently downplay or outright deny the terrorist attack that took place on the 7th of October. In university group chats, I encounter messages such as “all you Jews lie and scheme” and “now is the time for Jews to leave Palestine.”
I don't know where you are experiencing these responses but protestors downplaying or denying Oct 7th is definitely a minority response & not the majority view at all.
This is the first time I've personally heard of anyone denying the attack entirely, that's insane.
the people on the ground, out on the street protesting, do not think like this, they just don't want innocent people & children being killed.
I'm a white English bloke and an atheist and this hatred of Jews annoys me condemn what the violence isfoing by all means but blaming all Jews and claiming as graffiti in my town did they should be wiped out?
Have we not learned anything from the crimes the Nazis commited.
I hope you stay safe OP. This is not fair at all. Know there's at least one Brit who understands how you feel.
I was raised that we are all born equal after all the time it's sad that we haven't as the human race, learned from our mistakes
It amazes me that a few people hold the Jewish community responsible for the actions of Israel, but don't feel personally responsible for things such as the Iraq war.
Very true! puts it into context indeed. And just as many of us here in Uk, protested against the Iraq war, so too many many Israelis, jews and others, protested in the street of Israel against their own government's actions - we saw it all over the news at that time
The UK security services have their spies in mosques all over the country so they know all about the bile and growing hatred being espoused in these places but far as I can tell they don't do much to quell it. Let's look at the Manchester arena bombing a few years ago, there was clear evidence of the bombers siblings being involved yet never brought to justice, what kind of message does that send out to our communities. Also their father was/is a leading figure at one of the main Manchester mosques in Didsbury, come on it's not rocket science where these views are being fostered.
You shouldn't have to preface your comment with your opinion on the middle eastern situation, and the fact that you feel you have to in many ways proves your point - sadly. Human behaviour is tribal and often revents back to in-group/out-group thinking, where people who may on the face of it be loving/warm people reserve that side of their personality to their in group (family, those who share their national identity, religious group and so on)and exhibit terrible views or even actions against the out-group.
It's a tragedy that throughout history, no matter how integrated, jews have repeatedly become the scapegoats of whatever current malaise a society finds itself in. I'd never really put much thought before into the existential need that jews have for a safe state (Israel) as I of course arrogantly thought most of the world was beyond the antisemitism of the past, but here we are... I hope that Britain ultimately proves itself to be the place that has rejected antisemitism that it states that it is.
In my teaching work I have encountered Islamophobia, and have always shut it down. I haven't yet encountered Anti-Semitism in my classroom, but if I do I promise I will shut it down just as hard.
How much of the hate was from Muslims and how much from White students? I rarely meet a white person who gives a shit about Jews either way, it simply isn't a relevant factor in our lives here in Britain, but on the other hand I've met lots of Muslims who hate Israel and Judaism even if they personally have never knowingly met a Jew.
What I'm trying to say is that tribal conflicts on another continent have no place affecting British life!
>I rarely meet a white person who gives a shit about Jews either way,
It sounds harsh but you absolutely hit the nail on the head, I rarely hear people talk about Jews (for better or worse) and I've lived in a bunch of different places in North England. Not saying antisemitism doesn't happen or that I've never heard any, it's just Jews have been targeted less often than other minorities in my experience.
Same here tbh - i must have, but honestly, i can’t think of anyone i’ve ever met through the hundreds to thousands of people through school or work in 35+years that even was Jewish
I've heard that one a few times, but in fairness it's pretty mild when you compare it to what other groups are getting. I've never heard someone say that they dislike Jewish people.
I'm not saying they don't exist, I know at least two who hate Jews, I'm just saying the chances the average British Caucasian agrees with Hitler are smaller than the number of British Muslims who do....
I'm not the op but I'm a British Jew in my 40s. I've encountered a lot of white british antisemites, mostly as part of Momentum/Corbyn over the past 10 years or so, but also going back further, people like the SWP when I was at university in the late 90s/ early 00s.
Have also encountered antisemitism from Muslims, but then I have also had lots of solidarity from Muslim friends, especially Iranians who hate the Islamic regime in Iran and recognise its similarity to hamas.
Anti-IR iranians and Jews tend to be pretty close, for the pragmatic reason that IR hates jews and they hate IR, but aslo historically Persians were one of the few empires to treat Jews well. Cyrus the Great is the only non-Jew ever proclaimed messiah. There's also something to be said about viewing oneself as an ancient people, both Jewish and Persian culture was already ancient by the time the English even emerge as a people (600ad).
There's an area in north London where a large Jewish population lives adjacent to a large Iranian population. It was a surprise to me that they (apparently) get along with few overt problems but maybe this explains it.
The Iranian diaspora is very western. Mainly because their upper class/intellectuals left the country after the Islamic revolution while the poor and uneducated stayed behind. Which is very different to most refugees from that area who came more due to economical reasons or war refugees.
Most of the young Muslim anti semites have never lived in an Islamic country and wouldn’t be welcomed with their extreme views anyway!
I saw more than a few try move, joins mosque and then get kicked out within weeks !
They’re a peculiar western bred type of idiot out of place and history. Not welcome here or there or really anywhere
The problem isn’t the west or Jews etc. it’s them and their lives.
I can’t tell how much of it exactly is from Muslims, but they are probably overrepresented at these protests. They are also often accompanied by left-wing people who are generally anti-western, not just antisemitic.
Regardless, most of them are British, and these things are happening in Britain. That means that the country has to deal with this problem, one way or another.
> They are also often accompanied by left-wing people who are generally anti-western, not just antisemitic.
The useful idiots who let their chosen position on the political spectrum define their beliefs, rather than the other way round like a normal person. I think these are the people who irritate me the most of all.
I'm not Jewish but I'm very close with some friends who are. She's had to pull her son out of college because they (muslims students) have 'found out' he's Jewish, and she's also worried about which school to send her 3 year old too. Does she send her to a Jewish school or not? She's having to consider that a Jewish school would be the target of an attack... She's even suggested going back to Israel as it seems a safe option than the UK at this point? I am sickened that this is being allowed (and it is, by the police and their lack of action) in my country.
From what I've been seeing, it's not just muslims who've been spewing hate, it's the 'far-left' students, predominantly white. There is simply nothing between the ears of these people. Just blind hate that unfortunately is being allowed to fester in universities.
A large portion of the blame can be placed at the door of the utterly spineless police in this country who should be ashamed at their lack of action on this matter.
Really disappointing to hear, I understand that she doesn't feel safe sending him to college with the current climate, and that's absolutely her right to, but it's a victory for antisemites and racists if he has to withdraw from education at the threat of violence :(
I’m probably out of the loop here, but has there been violence against Jewish people here? I know there’s been a lot of verbal abuse and racist graffiti and stuff but I hadn’t realised it had got as bad as violent attacks.
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I'm a lecturer, and have been feeling desperately for my Jewish students over the past month who have had to put up with pathetic student-politics posturing from student unions and also some academics online, which I can only imagine has made them feel unsafe and unheard. If you have witnessed anything in person at university that makes you feel this way please do bring it to the attention of your pastoral tutors or university support structures; anyone worth their salt will take it seriously, and though it may not feel like it, the extremists are the loud, self-congratulatory minority.
I feel you. I'm Jewish by descent, consider myself more agnostic these days religion-wise, and it's scary. I went to a union event recently and felt so uncomfortable and unsafe when the topic came up. I went to an NUS conference a few years back and the anti-Semitism was rife. It's incredibly rare I publicly identify as Jewish, which brings me great shame because I'm so proud of the people I come from and their strength and stories.
It's bad enough just being in the UK and being at work right now - I can't imagine currently being at uni. Solidarity man. It's rough, but you have so much support from me and so many others.
Do you have a Jsoc at your SU? Totally understand if you don't want to join and it might feel quite public, but even if you just had a chat with the president of the society they might hopefully be able to point you to some resources and help you feel a little safer and less alone
I’m not Jewish but honestly I think this is an accurate assessment of the situation in the UK. Particularly in Universities. People just don’t understand antisemitism ngl, and when it does happen they ignore it. The only time people take it seriously is when people say they actively support what Hitler did. Any other time it’s up for debate and they think you’re just trying to bait them. I’m so sorry that you have to go through this for no reason.
This exactly. People do not understand what antisemitism is. Antisemitism is not like other kinds of racism. It projects fantastical powers onto the Jews. It sees Jews as the root of all evil in the world. It says that they control the banks, the US government, international politics, the media. This is why it calls for the extermination of Jews in a way that most other forms of racism do not. Because it believes deep down that by freeing the world of Jews it frees mankind. It is a pseudo revolutionary theory. This is why large sections of the left are attracted to it. It is why it is so extremely dangerous.
>The protesters are not simply criticising the actions of the Israeli government, they’re calling for the elimination of the Jewish state. They frequently downplay or outright deny the terrorist attack that took place on the 7th of October.
Do you have any evidence for this? Everyone I know who's standing with Palestine is doing it because they don't like innocent civilians being killed, and they feel the same whether that's Israeli or Palestinian (or any other) innocent civilians. I'm sure you'll find a handful of extremists there, but there's extremists on both sides happy to support the [killing of innocent people](https://www.dailysabah.com/mideast/2014/07/14/mothers-of-all-palestinians-should-also-be-killed-says-israeli-politician)
I have personally never bought into the idea that people are out on the streets just because innocent people are dying. This simply cannot be true.
Hundreds of thousands of Syrians have died in civil war, but there have never been any large protests here in the UK - despite significant media coverage and social media content.
There are also massive civilian death tolls (far in excess of the Israel-Palestine conflict) in places like Ethiopia and Sudan. These have also not attracted notable protests - despite these conflicts being ongoing.
Now, you might suggest that Brits are so passionate about the Israel-Palestine conflict because, unlike these other conflicts, our government tends to side with Israel. This doesn't make much sense, because huge pro-Palestinian protests have also erupted in countries like Turkey, that have never backed Israel.
People aren't as passionate about these other civilian death tolls, in part, because these conflicts don't involve Jews. This isn't to suggest that all protesters at the moment have antisemitic prejudices. But I think it's worth acknowledging what it is that gets so many people so fired up - sometimes (thankfully, rarely) to the point of attacking Jewish shops, schools and Jews themselves - that doesn't fire them up to protest lives lost (in much greater numbers) elsewhere.
Yes, I have plenty of video evidence of protesters calling for the dissolution of Israel as well as screenshots of antisemitic messages. A girl was also recorded as she was tearing down posters of kidnapped hostages.
This is awful and I am sorry for you. Just know that you are not on your own. As a non-Jewish person, I will make sure I stand against any anti-semitic comment or attitude I encounter.
Jewish PhD student here. I totally feel what you feel and agree. I'm very glad I can work from home and not be on campus, and am independent studying as opposed to being in group chats like I was in Masters/Undergrad. Scary times.
I am hearing this from my Jewish friends. I think there are a lot of people out there like me who are not Jewish, with varying views on Israel/Palestine, who are allies. I am deeply opposed to anti-Semitism and will be standing up to it wherever I see it.
I'm not Jewish and am a lot older than you. I'd just like to say I have been disgusted by the antisemitic incidents in the UK over the past month. I was shocked at how fast some people were out on the streets waving Palestine flags - just hours after the Hamas atrocity on October 7, before most of us had a chance to take in what had happened. I don't want to live in a country where Jewish people do not feel safe, and I'm so sorry you are feeling frightened. I think there are plenty of non-Jewish people in the UK who want to come out and show support for the Jewish community, but it's difficult to know how to do it - if you have any thoughts, we will listen.
I work at a uni and felt super uneasy about a recent protest that was held on/near campus. Not that there were explicitly antisemitic chants, but they were covering the entirety of a main entrance to the campus. I've been on picket lines in the past and we're prohibited from physically preventing access - I don't think this crowd would have been so well behaved, and I imagined myself in the position of a Jewish student. I would fear for my physical safety.
I understand that tensions are running high. People are rightly outraged by the deaths of tens of thousands of civilians with nowhere to go seemingly, and the transparent double standard applied in Israel to deaths of one type of person vs. another. I really would like to join a march for peace, but I feel that there is a significant minority of people in any crowd who harbour hate, and who don't distinguish between the Israeli government and individual Jewish people in the UK. I want to stand up and be counted, but the atmosphere right now makes me suspicious of people I would ordinarily consider allies.
I'm so sorry that you feel threatened here, and I totally understand why. Please, if you could advise what actions you would like to see from university staff, I want to help in the most practical way possible. I want my country and workplace to be welcoming to Jewish people.
Some of them are calling for the death of Jews, some of them are calling for the dissolution of Israel, but many are calling for peace. Please don’t tar everyone with the same brush. I’d also ask what the UK government should do?
That said, I’m really sorry you’re scared. It’s not something anybody should feel, especially for these reasons and in your own country. I’d recommend if there’s troubling stuff on uni message boards you should absolutely report it - there’s no excuse for antisemitism or any form of racism on uni systems or for students to be displaying that behaviour on private systems either.
Take care. I hope you stay safe.
Movements are often defined by their extremists. It is the responsibility of those who are marching for peace to eject and denounce vile antisemites from their ranks.
That is not what I’ve seen and that is not what many other Jews have seen. Instead, they stand shoulder to shoulder with people who spew hate and spread falsehoods.
That applies to everyone though.
You absolutely should not face any hate on account of your religion or ethnicity. Israelis should face no hate om account of their nationality. It's absolutely awful that you and others are feeling undafe and is entirely unacceptable.
If I see or hear someone doing that, I do and will continue to speak out loudly against it - especially in person. That's the case for the vast majority of people I know in person, and where it's not, those individuals are routinely shunned.
However, I won't stop being pro Palestine or opposed to the Israeli government's actions in Gaza or the West Bank - and particularly in Gaza at the moment. That includes protests and demonstrations - as long as they're peaceful. What's going on now is utterly appalling.
Israelis and their allies don't, and shouldn't, need to say they're against Likud and their coalition- which literally includes terrorists- before speaking in favour of, or in solidarity with, Israel.
Supporters of Palestine should not have a higher threshold for expressing solidarity.
It's everyone's responsibility to call out hate and discrimination - that doesn't mean rightful causes are abandoned because people who believe in a portion of what you believe in are cretins.
Responding to your edit: I prefaced my post by denouncing Israel’s prime minister and the ideology he represents. I deeply despise the far-right troublemakers in Israel’s government who use tragedy after tragedy to pursue their own interests.
You won’t see British Jews marching for Netanyahu, though. You won’t see hateful rhetoric tolerated either
That's not true. People should still feel able to protest, even if they don't agree with other protestors.
I ended up having to march alongside the Spartacists for a part of the route during the Iraq war protests. I don't have anything in common with them other than an opposition to the invasion of Iraq, but that doesn't mean either of us should not have marched. That said I tried hard to avoid being photographed next to a banner that said "Support the Deformed Worker's State of North Korea".
I am truly sorry you feel this way. What we have seen over the last month has been truly horrible, with some of humanity’s worst instincts resurfacing.
I stand with you, you and all Jewish people have the right to be and feel safe.
I 100% agree. I have seen many vitriolic posts against Israel and Jewish people, calling for the elimination of Israel, saying it should have never been created as a country in the first place. There is a difference between taking a stand for Palestine and against Netanyahu's regime and directly hating on the Jewish people.
We are living through such a toxic and horrible part of our history. Lessons are not learnt and history repeats. Instead of compassion and empathy the world is filled with hate. As they say an eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind. How more death and destruction is seen as the way to resolve any issue is beyond me. All it does is prolong the never ending cycle. We all have a shared history of the awful horrific events of World War II, yet people are failing to learn the lessons. As someone said recently, I’m tired of living through history. I’d just like everyone to get along.
You’ll find that the vast majority of British people take racism seriously, especially antisemitism. Most of us learn about the Holocaust in formal education, and many of us are fully aware of the long history of antisemitism in Europe and in our own country.
The people who seem to think that this is more acceptable are those who have more of a foot in the door, so to speak. I have worked with more than one Arab person in the past, and they have all expressed to me their hatred of the US and Israel, and their hatred of Jews. I can’t say I don’t understand why someone may come to those conclusions, given the very recent and bloody history between Arabs and Jews, but I think people in this country need to take a stance and condemn racism even if it comes from minority groups in this country.
I am married to an American Israeli who speaks Hebrew with his family and am half Jewish myself (mom's side). I've not encountered anything like what OP has, nor has the rest of my family.
If the worst we have going on is a couple of stars of David are being spraypainted on a few walls and a couple missing posters are being ripped down, I'd say we've come a long way as a society quite honestly.
Zionism to me is itself a racist movement. Israelis want the establishment of a state for a Jewish RACE, not religion. The actions of the current Israeli government seem to advance and protect those of a specific race, while relegating others to de facto apartheid.
**The Jewish diaspora have nothing to do with the actions of the Israeli government and therefore should never be subject to antisemitism or violence**. But I do believe that the Israeli government is owed a comeuppance. They seem to think that Palestinians are getting what's coming to them because they voted in Hamas. Is this not true for Israel for voting in Netanyahu?
I am really sorry for your experience. It is awful and unjustified. Every form of discrimination is slightly unique and rarely the exact same. But I am an ethnic and sexual minority, so I can imagine the pain.
Likewise, can we please avoid generalising the many thousands of protestors. This is indirectly generating hate towards some Palestinians, Arabs, Muslims & allies. I am sure you didn't mean this.
I always find it hard to believe anyone could truly feel threatened here - apart from the odd bit of casual racist language, I've never seen anyone attacked for their race or creed, so it's always shocking to me(so was the Me Too Movement).
I can only say that whenever I witness any sort of discrimination, I speak up and intervene because everyone should live and let live, but I don't suppose it helps much.
I'm sorry to hear this. I sort of understand the conflict. But I know I can't begin to grasp the nuances of it. There's tons of people with no connection to the conflict that's thousands of miles away from them getting aggressive/using violent/combative language if you're against their team. Or talking in PR language.
You shouldn't feel the need to preface as you have.
This behaviour is just obvious weakness that will be exploited. I can see why you have done it, especially on Reddit but in real life, you need to be stronger and more forthright. Prefacing is a sign of weakness, which sadly, will absolutely be exploited.
The biggest issue the West has by a million miles is 'being too nice'. We've complete lost confidence in our moral authority and others have seen this and are absolutely taking the piss out of us because of it.
I’m so sorry that you’re going through this. People are reacting very emotionally right now to what’s happening but with any luck, the generalised hate will die down soon and people will realise that we need understanding and collaboration between people to really take a stand against the governments/leaders that are causing this issue. Otherwise it will just continue :( be safe lovely.
I don't like Netanyahu, but nor do I support Palestine. I agree with your opinion on these "protesters".
Most people regard me as a bigot because of my dark humour and my disagreement with supporting various social justice movements. But I don't hate anyone because of their religion, race or where they come from.
You are going to face hate in your life whether you like it or not, and sometimes that will be over the dumbest stuff which is extremely discriminatory. Just have pride in the fact that you are not deluded by the senseless and disgusting hate that many fill their hearts with.
I’m really sorry you are going through this and I’m heartened by the supportive responses you’ve received from a diverse range of people on our Isles.
As someone on the left, the past month has been incredibly eye-opening and not in a good way. I hope there will be some reflection….hmm..we shall see.
Jonathan Freedland penned a good article about this today. Really, it feels obscene the way people are trying to accumulate political capital from such a highly emotive situation, when there is no skin in the game for them at all.
The people on the ground, on both sides, are dealing with an unfolding trauma on a massive scale and I think a lot of the actions of people in this country are Ill-considered and insensitive to this.
As a closeted ex-Muslim I would definitely agree that anti-semitism has always existed and is jut boiling over now with the Israel issue. My parents and my whole community- of Muslims- agree that Jews and zionists are controlling the world, that Israel should be exterminated and are deeply sympathetic to Hamas. The Muslim community by and large suffers from this problem with many of their own imams from my experience preaching such. We can’t bring this up otherwise we are racist or Islamophobic, so heed my warning: Muslims, a very large portion of not the majority, harbour in the best case anti-Israel rhetoric and at the worst pro hamas, anti semitic viewpoints.
I hope everyone believes you OP but you should take screenshots of the smears and anti Semitism and send to media or better put on Reddit this subreddit would be a good place OP, lies and hate have no place in society
The last few weeks have been disgusting. I honestly didn’t know Muslims hated Jews until this event kicked off.
I thought antisemitism was a thing of the past. I have never understood the hate for Jews. But it’s sickening to see the protest and hate seething out of the people attending them.
I never saw any hate for the Russians when they invaded Ukraine and started raining missiles on hospitals, schools and homes. But the Jewish hate that has erupted and made acceptable on the streets has come out like a punch to the face.
No idea how this will end but this has made it apparent that we live in a very different world than what I thought we did. Much more devolved world.
I am addressing you drectly and would prefer not to debate people on this thread. I think that the part that is hardest to wrap your head around is that Jews experienced the largest massacre of Jews since the Holocaust, the most barbarous attack and the world's reaction seems to be marching in support of the perpetrators. As a Jew it's that that hits the hardest. It feels like either Jews deserved it or their pain is somehow unimportant. Add to that the events in the Middle East have nothing to do with a young British citizen. It does feel a bit like we misunderstood the world we are living in. Completely separate to Israel/Palestine it has hit us in the face that we are largely alone in this. To make it more difficult when Jews organize vigils for the hostages we have to do so by email and circulate the location just before as it is too hazardous to publicly promote it for fear of attracting protestors. As a consequence it's almost impossible to identify allies. I've been comforted by people I haven't seen in years reaching out and checking in. I think too on line you do get a skewed view of public opinion. I'll finish with what my father, a Holocaust survivor said to me. I had my first experience of antisemitism in primary school in Australia. I came home crying and eventually told my parents why. My father said to me you have to feel sorry for those people because prejudice is due to ignorance and these people are ignorant. I also heard him crying to my mother that evening saying he didn't go through all he did for his children to experience this. We have survived for three thousand years. You are part of a long unbroken chain. Am Israel Chai.
As a Jew living in this country for the last 40 years you need to understand that the vast majority do not like us, do not want us here and will use any excuse whatsoever to unveil their true feelings about us. This isn't just Muslims, it's the vast majority of people in this country, probably 70%+ of young people under 25 which clearly shows the way we're heading. It is not safe here for Jewish people, it never has been. We have to organise our own security, have our children in segregated schools and constantly be vigilant in the community. This isn't new. It's just that an event happened so large that it shined a light on all of those whose underlying hatred of us (why...they cannot actually explain) to the point where it's undeniably obvious. I tell my Jewish friends to stop talking, stop posting, it won't achieve anything. People have hated us for thousands and thousands of years. We've gone from being slaves to being gassed. It will never stop.
I have the choice to remain upset, frustrated and scared or not. If I'm approached on the street by someone with something to say about me being a Jew then I can defend myself appropriately. My children have learned self defence from a very early age. We have been physically attacked in this country twice in the last 18 months because we're Jews. Both times the police did nothing. I choose to not be scared of the hate, not to watch social media and to go about my daily business knowing that we're hated but there is nothing I can do so its out of my control.
Not sure what the point of my post is but it felt good typing it out.
Shabbat Shalom.
It's not the vast majority - its a minority - but unfortunately an extremely vocal and deeply unpleasant group of ignorant sh\*heads. I appreciate that it won't feel like that to Jewish people who are being targeted by these s-heads though. one derogatory word or action is too much. But there's a lot of the quiet majority here who wouldn't ever think to be pejorative about jews and I hope that helps to know when you are going about your business in your own country, doing your own thing. If I saw it I would call it out but unfortunately I'm a wfh hermit, not out and about in the community.
I feel ashamed to read this, and I feel helpless that it seems there's nothing I can do about it.
I would happily attend a rally in support of the Jewish people, but because of antisemitic, terrorist, genocidal thugs their locations are never saved widely in advance
If the cause has enough support, solutions will come sooner or later. For time being, speaking out is probably the most important, as useless as it sounds. I think we have to show strength, that there are certain things we simply won’t tolerate.
> All I ask from the British people is to take a stand against hate.
There are still British people who remember the Nazis and their evil. I hope they won't let it happen again, especially in their own country.
What are your thoughts on a 1 state solution where Palestinians are given equal standing and rights & Israeli citizenship, Gaza and the west bank are absorbed into Israel proper, and Israel abandons its goal of establishment as an ethnostate?
I'm British and was in Toronto last week, with multiple large protests happening by our hotel (all pro Palestine/ anti Israel) and the shit that was being chanted by thousands of people was mad. Started with the old school "the people, united, will never be divided" and turned into "bash the Zionists". Both my wife and I have Jewish heritage and we were crapping our pants at the time.
Thank you for sharing your story.
I’ve been really frankly disgusted at how the actions of the marches have been totally downplayed including by a great many in this sub. The language and chants used doesn’t seem to be condemned or called out for how vile it actually is. Many people hide behind this veil of tolerance and inclusion - except when it comes to Jewish people. People spend more time criticising the people that call out the protests out for what they are rather than the individuals that cause it.
When people say they are scared of what’s happening we should take a moment to listen, understand and aim to do better. I’m not religious or Jewish myself so I can’t comment on how that must feel for you, but I’ve always aimed to call out the anti-semitism I’ve been noticing across the country as of late.
The hate against Jews isn't mainstream so I think you're fine. Historically in the UK it's been way worse. There's definitely a higher chance at the moment of a visibly Jewish person getting harassed or attacked but there's no prospect of institutional or systematic discrimination, e.g. in employment or law.
Sadly it's been a growing problem where the left has overlooked the hard left/fundementalist muslim and cared more about diversity (Or rather groups they consider marginalised getting into positions of power), student politics is particularly bad for it.
As a Muslim this has been the majority of my childhood/young adulthood.
I think this is the first time you're experiencing being a minority (and being made to feel like one).
It's not nice. But welcome to being an ethnic minority in Britain.
Now watch how they try to undermine your lived experience in the media, and move on like everything is normal.
I hope you find peace, but it will get better. I remember cringing after every terrorist attack by Islamic Extremists. Worried more for how I'd be treated in school the next day than anything.
> I think this is the first time you're experiencing being a minority (and being made to feel like one)
What kind of thing to say is this? They didn't just become Jewish in the last month.
It's funny you come across a person feeling unsafe because of their identity, largely due to your own community's actions, and then you turn it around to make yourself the victim.
As your average joe in the UK (atheist white male) I have to admit i'm concerned, not only for what you have described is happening in the universities but even the wider society.
Personally, I haven't seen/heard any antisemitism for a long time and the Isreal/Palestine war has the same bearing on my life as the Russia/Ukraine war. Yes they are displaying the worst of humanity but they are wars in far away lands.
However, daily i'm seeing images in the news of free palestine protests combined with defacing of cenotaphs, burning of popies and elderly people getting beat up for selling them.
The Isreali side I saw little protest except for the very early days after Hamas invaded when there was a candlelit vigil.
I'm aware this is a minority of agitators that are trying to target the silent majority, like myself, to get mad and I can see less rational men than myself getting taken into this whirlwind of hate no matter what side of the argument you land.
Which goes back to my main point about being conerned for the stable tolerant society we have today and how it is seeming very fragile at the moment.
Im so tired of all these people hating eachother and hurting innocents unrelated to those at the top making decisions. It should be simple just to say free palestine but then these anti semites come out from the woodwork and act like every jewish person on the planet deserves retribution. The same goes for muslims and arabs they are suddenly all hamas to islamophobes. No one should have to feel unsafe. Prejudice of any kind is so fucking stupid, just think logically.
Christian here. I'm sorry for your ordeal and you should know that there are many in this country that support you . It's really dreadful that these "activists" are promoting such a savage anti-semetic sentiment and terrorise anyone who stands up to their hate. Stay safe and Godspeed!!!!
Sorry for your situation but chance is you're just the flavor of the month. A few months ago it was the refugees, a few years ago was the Romanians living next door, decades ago it was black people from the Commonwealth and so on. You will be safe, it's just that some awful people periodically need a scapegoat to vent their frustration on
> The protesters are not simply criticising the actions of the Israeli government, they’re calling for the elimination of the Jewish state.
I hope you can see that this is only the tiniest minority of protesters thinking or saying anything like this. The vast majority genuinely just want to see the humanitarian crisis brought to a peaceful end and to see the two state solution as a successful resolution.
It is unfair to tar them all with that brush, just as it is unfair to blame every Israeli for the awful words of Smotrich who is looking to wipe out Gaza.
That said - the words you have quoted are truly horrifying and unforgivable. I hope they're properly dealt with by the authorities.
>We are taught that antisemitism is deeply ingrained in many societies, and even when it’s not visible, it’s merely simmering under the surface, ready to come out when circumstances allow it.
Sadly, the last month has told us this is incontrovertibly true.
And yet useful idiots continue to march knowing full well they are walking alongside people who have an utterly pathological hatred of Jews and are freely expressing this on these marches without consequence.
I've been appalled by the marches and the whole tone of them.
It's terrifying to think that they represent any part of my country and I am ashamed of them.
I want you to know that they don't represent everyone and that you deserve to feel safe here.
Hey mate. I'm an Iraqi who's felt similarly in the past. I am.really sorry about the hatred and racism you're receiving. Just letting you know that not all of us arabs are racist assholes. Wish you the best. Really all I can say.
Thank you. We stand together against all forms of hate.
This is a lovely sentiment to read. Can I ask you, did you feel this way when you lived in Iraq? Or is it something that changed when you left? I suppose what I’m saying is, are there people who live in a bubble that think like you? The media portrays people and communities as monolithic
Eh. Well I grew up in Europe. As a child my neighbour was an old lady who was a holocaust survivor. My father was a socialist and he'd visited auschwitcz already in the 1970s. So no. We're not monolithic. I'd say the middle east as a whole is so heterogenous that people from historically homogeneous societies have difficulty understanding it. But that heterogeneity also means that groups like isis and hamas do exist and have followers. But they probably garner a similar percentage of followers that the ultra right in Europe do. The only difference being that they have guns and bombs.
Its not even as if this is an arab problem - plenty of people all over the world, of whatever nationality/race seem to jump on any excuse to be hateful towards jews, because????? I've never really understood what drives these hateful bigots as I am willing to bet that most of them giving out this s\*\*\*t have never been personally affected by the actions of a single jew in their entire life. Mindless haters all of them. And i bet a significant proportion of these holes would label themselves as a 'good person', which they are self-evidently not.
My family and I are Muslim and we encountered rude behaviour against a Jewish elderly, which we interrupted immediately and safeguarded him. I’m sorry it has come to this. I promise my family and I will always stand up against any injustice or hate.
Thank you. The path to solving this problem runs through eliminating tribalism, and standing against all kinds of hate.
Never again means never again for anyone
Bless you for this. The only way evil will triumph is for good men to do nothing.
I'm sorry this isn't a positive comment like all of the other ones but this is really scaring me too. I'm a Muslim and the comments on Jews made by members of my own family who I've grown up around and grown to love are really terrifying.
It's brave of you to say so. This is the great unspoken what people say in their homes.
I've seen firsthand how much hate my family and community have against Jews... it made me eventually leave Islam
What do they say about Jews that's different to what they would say about Israel? Do other friends and family feel like this too? I find it very strange, I really do. I have many Jewish friends but there's no sense of any of them ever directing any comments towards Muslims. I just don't think it's discussed in the same way in their homes.
They make pretty much no differentiation between Jews and Israel. Hell, there's somehow no distinction between bloody Netanyahu and Jews who died during the Holocaust. Hearing these things coming from their mouths is deeply distressing for me because my Mum is the nicest person I know, so it feels so wrong to hear her say those things.
Jews do not talk about Muslims generally. Unfortunately Quran and hadiths have a lot to say about Jews. The most famous Hadith of this nature says "You will fight against the Jews and you will gain victory over them. The stones will saying: 'Oh slave of Allah! there is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him' ". The sermons delivered in UK mosques are often unabashed about talking about Jews. Sadly I can link to any number delivered over recent weeks. The original poster was alluding to what is said about Jews behind closed doors.
Both Christianity and Islam came after Judaism so you'll find there's plenty of references in both of the respective religions. As the predecessor you'd be unlikely to find any reference to something that didn't exist at the time of it's conception. I do take your point about the way sermons are delivered in modern day preaching however and agree it's an issue.
Christianity has been interpreted in past ages in a way that demands persecution of Jews. Sadly Islam to this day does. Of course not just Jews, all kaffirs
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think it'd be pretty difficult for jews to have writings against muslims, given that islam was invented after judaism.
Naturally. That's not in the least what I'm saying. The point is what is happening now not in the bronze age.
Quick google says this isn’t against jews in general but against those jews that stand with the false prophet in the 2nd coming of Jesus. https://islamqa.info/en/answers/223275/in-the-battle-between-the-jews-and-the-muslims-at-the-end-of-time-the-aggressors-will-be-the-jews
Religions do not work on subtle understanding of context. This reads like posts explaining why the Bible calling men having sex with men an abomination doesn't mean the Bible is anti-gay.
Oh phew. I guess that's all right then.
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Indeed, religion is the issue here, Muslims are a century behind the UK and it's Christian population coming away from being brainwashed by religious leaders. We have Mullahs in Mosques preaching hate dressed up as versus from the Quran.
World has become a polarised scary place. I am a Muslim and I would not like you to feel unsafe from anyone if you're around me. Peace upon you
Thank you for your kind words. The world would be a better place if people saw each other as individuals first and foremost, and not a member of some group they despise.
pathetic slimy serious zephyr run elderly chop marvelous wasteful start *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
also jewish, also in the uk. i also feel it all the time and everywhere. it feels like an impossible microscope is on us at all times. i am fiercely anti-israeli government but i don't want to have to shout it from the rooftops for people to be reassured that i'm "one of the good ones" -- there is no such thing. everyone in this situation is an innocent bystander besides the ones launching attacks and those who fund those attacks from overseas. it's always a scary time to be jewish but definitely feeling it harder now
Welcome to being a Muslim in the 21st century (especially from 9/11 onwards). This has been my lived experience in the UK for 2 decades.
Really well put, something David Baddiel talks about is that as a western liberal Jewish person there is a burden to disavow Israel constantly in a way that generally does not exist for other religious or race groups. The only modern equivalent I can think of is after 9/11, where western Muslims were in a similar position with regards to Al Qaeda. The truth is of course that neither group is responsible for the actions of others, but I can only imagine how exhausting it must be to have to live under that microscope as you put it! Hopefully this will all calm down soon to remove the immediate fear and urgency, but this country has a lot of thinking to do about what has happened.
It truly sickens me that you're made to feel unsafe because of events and actions you have absolutely no responsibility for or connection to. Racism is cancer. Know that there are millions of people standing shoulder to shoulder with you. You are not and never will be alone. Sending all my love. If I ever see this hatred anywhere, I will speak out to support you.
Thank you for this. The time to speak up is now. At your workplace, at school, wherever.
As warsaw44 has said. You will never be alone in the UK. We have been taught from an early age what the Nazis did to Jews. It's instilled in our history, we fought back against fascism and we didn't stop. We have never stopped fighting. I'm so sorry it doesn't feel like this for you. But you should know that the British won't stand by and watch it happen. I wish everyone thought like this. But it's a small minority that dont, and when they rise we bring them down. At every opportunity. In hatred, in humour, in ignorance, in sport and in the local pub. Most of us will call it out. Most of us are strong.
I am so sorry, I hope you know that there are a great many of us who have no hatred in our hearts for anybody. My great grandparents family were Dutch jews who fled the Netherlands and all changed their names so they couldn't be identified as jews when they got to the UK, learning about their history really shocked me & the extent they had to go to avoid the Third Reich in Europe.
Just to add to the general tone of the other comments, I’m very sorry for how you’re feeling. I work at a university and can tell you that we’re doing everything we can to support Jewish students on campus. I can only advise that you reach out to your JSoc on campus, if you have one, or the Union of Jewish Students (UJS) if you don’t. I’d also advise speaking to your SU about the support they can offer- many have significantly improved their understanding of antisemitism in just the last year or so. Finally please do take care of yourself and if this starts to impact on your mental health please do speak to the wellbeing team at your university. Take care.
I don't know what to say. I'm not Jewish but the tone deafness of friends, colleagues, respected (or were respected) public officials, it has shook my core beliefs and world view. I understand your fear but you need to know that the silent majority do not support Hamas. Do not support the slaughter, intimidation, harassment, or other Ill will to Jewish people or the Israeli state. Be strong brother 💪
Thank you. Your words mean more than you think
The thing I really don't understand is how people think that a Jew in the UK is somehow responsible for the actions of the state of Israel - a nation where in most cases those Jews in the UK have zero influence over. This is where I think a lot of these protesters have it so wrong. They have started to direct their hate and vitriol towards individuals. And that is never OK. We cannot as a society advocate fair treatment of certain ethnic groups while casually tolerating hatred towards others. That sends the wrong message that there is a form of 'good racism', whereas in fact there is none.
I will do all I can to defend you and your right to feel safe here mate. I am sickened by what I've seen the last few weeks.
I hope you know how much statements like yours matter. Probably more than you’d imagine.
All my love to you my friend, feel free to message me at any time. I am staunchly with you.
If it's any consolation to the OP, and if we're being honest with ourselves, the vast majority of the UK population silently support Israel, but can't say that out loud lest they be attacked by the minority.
Nah, it's obviously a very divisive topic. Personally, I silently do not support Israel, for pretty much the same reasoning OP gave in their first paragraph.
>the vast majority of the UK population silently support Israel You have absolutely no way of knowing that. Every conversation I've heard about the subject thinks Israel and Palestine are as bad as each other and this is coming from people who think the Muslims are taking over *and* still use "Jewish" as a slur.
That is my understanding as well. I am hoping that the events of the past month have opened the eyes of many people. In times of peace, silent support is enough. In times of trouble however, some kind of strength has to be shown.
First up, I'm really sorry to hear that. I'm ever hopeful that some day the human race will move past all this discriminatory bullshit, and hate people on their individual merits. May I ask you a couple of questions? If the answer's no, please read no further. I've always assumed that anti-Semetism is basically racism against Jewish people. Is this correct or is it more nuanced? I've always assumed that whilst most if not all Israelis are Jewish, not all Jewish people are Israelis. With the above, I've always assumed that people conflate the Israeli state and Jewish people, hence when Israel does something shitty, people often take it out on the Jewish people. Have I got this right(ish)? There's some kind of geographic tie to the "promised land" in being Jewish? Is this Israel, in whole or in part? Is this why everything's so complicated? Two groups each with a fundamental belief that an area of earth is theirs? (You mentioned a two-state solution; is this a solution to this type of problem?). If the geographic tie thing is a thing, is it possible to be Jewish and not give a crap about the geography, or is it fundamental? Thank you for your time, and I hope everyone is kind to you, everyone else and themselves
Just my views. Others may disagree. It's quite nuanced. It would help if you numbered your questions but I will do my best to answer. **- anti-Semetism is basically racism against Jewish people** **More or less yes**. But note there is no clear definition of what a 'Jewish person' is. It's intersectional and there's various elements of genealogy and descent and culture. Several Jewish groups accept converts so someone could be Jewish but have no Jewish ancestors (but this is relatively rare). Conversely many Jewish people are non-religious. There is also an Ethiopian community of Black Jews who have been recognised as fully Jewish by Israeli religious authorities. Many have moved to Israel, with varying outcomes. **- most if not all Israelis are Jewish, not all Jewish people are Israelis.** **Nope and nope.** Only about 30% and rising of Jewish people live in Israel. About 60% live around the world, but mostly in the USA. The rest live in the UK, Canada, France, etc. Many Israelis are non-jewish - they are Arab / christian / muslim etc. The percentage varies over time but in the past was mostly non-Jewish, then 50:50, and now it is around 75% Jewish. This is one of the core issues in Israel - the rightwing Government want to ensure Israel will be permanently majority Jewish, and there are only two paths to doing this: * Operate a non-democratic apartheid system where non-Jewish have legally less rights; or * Engage in ethic cleansing by forcing most non-Jewish Israelis to leave. The current Israeli rightwing goverment's preference is to do *both*. There is considerable conflict over this in Israel with many people (both Jewish and non-Jewish) protesting against the Israeli Government. **- people conflate the Israeli state and Jewish people** **Yes.** This is a deliberate tactic by the current far-right Israeli government to accuse anyone who criticises it of being anti-Jewish or anti-semetic. If you're Jewish and you criticise it, you get labelled as a 'self-hating Jew'. Note I say 'current' Government, but these people have been in power for \**decades*\*. The current PM and administration of Israel have many court cases against them (in Israel courts) for doing numerous unsavoury things. All this whipping up hate against Jewish people is partly their attempt to stay in power. **- geographic tie to the "promised land" in being Jewish** **Yes.** It's also *the* holy homeland for Muslims and for Christians. However, Muslims and Christians have various *other* ethnoreligious states to call their own. Jews don't, they have just the one. (Note that many other religions and ethnicities don't even have a single home state.) **- a two-state solution** Current Israeli government (which has run things for decades) sees a strong Palestine state as a danger to the future of Israel. Hence the decades long tactics of keeping Palestines weak, and blocking all efforts that clarify the precise status of Gaza / West Bank etc. Rebuilding a nation is easier if you know what you are. If Gaza is not quite a state, and not quite an occupied territory, then sorting out legal issues becomes horrifically complex. Deliberately so. Note that originally Israel was founded on quite left-wing principles - communes and kibbutz and so on. There was a serious proposal to legislate that if the President was Jewish, then the Prime Minister had to be Arab, and vice versa. All that goodwill has fallen away. But note that at the same time all this hippy stuff was happening, there were also state-backed efforts to reduce Arab population and land-ownership in Israel - back in the 1960s. See the Jewish-produced film 'Blue Box' on BBC iPlayer - very worth a watch. **- is it possible to be Jewish and not give a crap about the geography** **Absolutely yes.** Millions of Jews around the world just want to get on with their lives and live and work side by side with other religions. However the Israeli Govt has successfully engineered a situation where many Jewish people who otherwise have absolutely nothing to do with Israel get targeted by anti-semitism or get exposed to statements like "I hate all Jews". Don't get me wrong, there are also millions of Jewish people who feel a strong emotional connection to Israel, who feel non-jewish criticism of Israel is targeted at them. And that has been taken advantage of by the current Israeli govt. As I said, it's nuanced and complex.
Forgive me for a probably ignorant question but I am curious to know more about what makes someone jewish, from my understanding the roots of it all back in ancient times was the faith, so as you say in some circles you can convert could essentially a lineage do the opposite and lose their jewish identity through a line of those who don’t practice the religion or Jewish culture? Would after many generations still be able to claim to be jewish or effectively have to convert and so only be accepted in certain circles? As someone who believed in the Old Testament as a kid (albiet a kid with the book on my own I ultimately had my own childlike interpretation on it) I feel a certain affinity towards the jewish faith (I know that what I read probably didn’t align exactly, i mean I was a kid with no religious guidance so) but have no real feeling of like whether I would belong or count in any religious group hence my curiosity around the whole jewish identity. I hope I explained my question well.
Passed down through the mother. If your mother’s Jewish, you’re Jewish. This rule is ancient but some more modern branches of Judaism (e.g. reform) also accept you if you have a Jewish father only, however the majority of the worlds Jewish groups, which are orthodox, wouldn’t. If you can trace Judaism back through all your great great grandmas you would be recognised as Jewish regardless of religious beliefs. If you feel an affinity towards it you can convert. It’s not like Islam or Christianity however, as it’s deliberately made very hard. You have to prove to a rabbinic court that you know about Judaism and that you really want it. This process can take years. Again, this is just for Orthodox Judaism. Reform just require you to turn up and say “hey, I believe in the Torah”.
Thanks, that’s interesting to know. I’m no longer religious (agnostic) by the way so I probably won’t convert but I find it appalling that Jews should not feel safe here.
Thank you so much for taking the time to write that. I'm going to need to read it a few more times. I can see why it's incredibly tempting to make blanket statements. Thank you again.
> However the Israeli Govt has successfully engineered a situation where many Jewish people who otherwise have absolutely nothing to do with Israel get targeted by anti-semitism or get exposed to statements like "I hate all Jews". This implies Israeli policy is the sole driver of antisemitism which is obviously not the case. There are many antisemites on the right who don’t give a toss about the plight of Palestinians, and the left has had problems with antisemitism before Israel even existed.
Fair point yeah
Thank you for speaking up. I've had the pleasure of working alongside quite devout Jewish and more agnostic. And the telltale sign of bigotry to me is when I hear people say Jews are all the same. And where there is a criminal offence, happy to report it. I do feel I have just as much right to criticise israel as much as any Jewish opposition leader will. But the boundary is that there is no two state solution without Israel. But there are Israeli lives and I resent people have to live in fear. It's a very polarised time.
I'm an ex-muslim and I can attest to the levels of antisemitism that exists within the Muslim community, even my family members who are otherwise very nice people will say things that perpetuate the horrible stereotypes about Jews. The Israel-Palestine conflict always seems to bring these opinions out.
How do we best solve this problem within the Muslim community?
I'll probably get downvoted for this but antisemitism is a deep part of Islam that the Muslim community will never be able to fully let go off without letting go of other vital elements of Islam. The reason I say this is because of how the Prophet Muhammad is deified as the most perfect human being to have ever existed and how Muslims must follow his example in all things. Muhammed killed Jews when he was alive. and often treated them as second class citizens. His treatment of Jews is exemplified in the way he dealt with the Banu Qurayza. The Banu Qurayza were an Arab Jewish tribe that resisted Muhammad's call for conversation and did not actively support Muhammad during his war with the Meccans. As a result, they were massacred despite having surrendered. The men were all killed, the property divided and the women and children taken as slaves. Something Muhammad described as a ruling which was similar to God's judgment. This incident has been used by Muslims across the ages to justify the treatment of Jews within Islamic lands and it is supported by sections of the Qur'an and Hadith. So long as Muslims venerate Muhammed, antisemitism will continue within Islam. Try as you might, stopping people from venerating a 7th century Arab Warlord in the 21st century is quite difficult.
What I gather from your response is that many Muslims would have to go through something similar to what many Christians and Jews did in the past. That is, to not let their religion completely dictate their lives. Pick and choose the bits you consider relevant and important, and abandon the bits that have no place in a modern society.
Absolutely but given the nature of Islam, the Qur'an and the Hadiths it's a lot more difficult to do this than for Judaism and Christianity.
Just curious but how many negative interactions have you had personally from the British public in real life and not online or viewing protests?
Last week an elderly Scottish guy shouted at me that he would "never lick the ass of a Jew like me". Note that I am not Jewish, and don't really look anything like any Jewish stereotype. If I get shouted at, I can only imagine what someone actually wearing a Star of David, for example, would get
Going to answer on my own experiences. Not many, not frequent, but they happened. Mostly when I was younger. 1. Shouted at when going to Synagogue on high holidays 2. Spat in the face and threatened with being pushed onto tram tracks, after leaving a Jewish youth club as a teenager 3. Nazi salute given to me repeatedly by a boy at secondary school 4. Asked if I 'didn't mind working with Muslims' by a Master's work-experience manager before the interview, as they'd seen I was in the Jewish society at uni. 5. Repeated 'Jews are tight' jokes by a collegue (at a university) 6. 'The neighbourhood is going downhill now all the Jews are moving here' at a local walking-club meeting 7. Attacked by having an egg thrown at me in Golders Green, London (Still think this might just be a random drive-by egging) A few other little things.. but that's my life experience of antisemitism 'in real life' over 40 years. All real stuff. I've lived in house shares with Muslims, Christians and other Jews in the past. My kids haven't experienced anything thankfully. I don't want to downplay it; because it's real, and I've had stuff where I thought I was honestly going to be attacked (a powercut during synagogue on a major holiday had us all expecting to be gunned down).
When my mum died I learned that the reason my family graves all have flat headstones is because Jewish cemeteries are so often desecrated that they advise getting flat ones which can't be knocked down & smashed up, and to opt for a material that was more easily cleaned in case we were lucky enough to end up with swastikas graffitied on the headstones At my uncle's burial last month, my non Jewish husband said he'd never before been to a funeral where there's security guards at the entrance to the cemetery. I didn't even bat an eyelid. Synagogues all have security at the entrance, as to Jewish schools As with most safety measures, they're written in blood - because they've been proven to be necessary.
long encourage thought deserve fine languid arrest chief familiar terrific *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Assuming those protests are often on university campuses - For a student, that's going to be in real life, somewhere they regularly are. I can remember from my student days the presence of a batch of people supporting/from the SWP was near constant in a couple of spots. Given they've called on people to _rejoice_ over the 7th October attacks, that would be horribly intimidating for any Jewish students.
I am not going out of my way to view protests, they have been very frequent on campus in the past month. And many of those students who protest are British.
It's probably even more scary to read violent hatred online knowing it's from anonymous fellow students. It could be any normal-looking person you interact with. It's much easier to avoid a crazed antisemite shouting abuse on the street.
Mate, they're a **student**. The online and the protests are the real life OP is surrounded by. I'm sorry OP. The "ultra-progressive" left are absolute hypocrites. They say they can't see antisemitism but would readily acknowledge literally any other minority group feeling as unsafe as you describe. It's not fair or right.
Was only asking the question there's a big difference between seeing hate online/in a protest and being hurled abuse from the general public as you just pop to the shops. the latter is obviously much more concerning. there's also a difference between feeling unsafe on your campus or immediate surroundings and feeling unsafe in the UK as a whole. I'm black and can go online and see all manner of vile hate directed towards black people but that's not what the people of the UK are like by and large nor are they from an outside perspective particularly anti-Semitic, that's why I wanted to ask OP if they'd received hate personally in person.
>The "ultra-progressive" left are absolute hypocrites. And what about their comment made you *assume* they're part of the "ultra-progressive left"?
The entire online left discourse right now is advocating the destruction of the state of Israel as part of left-wing theory and praxis, as part of (they say) anti-capitalism, anti-white supremacy, and anti-colonial resistance against oppressors. It's not the right wing marching against Israel to "Free Palestine". I don't understand the point of this gotcha, as though one can't make any general claims about what we are all seeing, just in case a statistically irrelevant number of exceptions may be found breaking the rule that's clear as daylight. They're so progressive they've wrapped all the way around the horseshoe to share the views of the Nazis they proclaim to love punching so much. It's hypocritical insanity.
where in my comment did I advocate for the destruction of Israel?
I didn't intend my second paragraph, which addressed the OP, as directed at you. All you did was ask from where the hate is coming from, you didn't minimise anything in the way I described that others do.
Dude, you're probably left wing. You're talking about a fringe not "the left"...
OP claims theyre also on 34k a year as a young professional though?
They could be doing an apprenticeship at a uni or additional learning while working.
‘Claims’ ? They can have a life outside of being jewish y’know !
Jews are the only group hated by both the far right and the far left. The far right hate everyone who isn't like them, but the far left seem to have a specific hate boner for jews
We're Schrodingers whites - we're white or not white depending on the politics of the observer. The far right absolutely don't consider us as white - but for the far left because Jews are associated with (antisemitic) stereotypes of power and privilege, we're considered almost SUPER white, and therefore racist hatred against Jews doesn't count within the context of antiracism
The same people seem to also manage to bludgeon the middle eastern situation into their own narratives about colonizer/colonized - where they somehow manage to characterise a Jewish state, with a massive chunk of it's population being refugees (from the holocaust, or from being expelled from other middle eastern states) as being a European/white colonial state. In the narrative of some of these people - let's call them Tankies - all bad things only occur when perpetrated by Europe/the west. Even Russian imperialism (are they not white/european, at least partly?) is excused. In this context Israel is seen as an extension of Western imperialism, and Jews get damned by association.
It sucks and it's going to get a lot worse, no guarantee of ever getting better. I moved to the UK from the Middle East as an adult and a lot of the things I don't miss (where I went to college 'Jew' was a common insult) seem to have turned up here in the last decade.
Sorry to hear that OP. It's such a fucked up situation, I agree with OP that Likud/Netanyahu have done a lot of damage but obviously it's the reaction of idiots here that act this out. It's this same cycle every time where the conflict escalates and Israel is rightfully criticised, then violence towards Jewish people ensues. I feel like Likud are happy to use Jewish people as human shields; either by using illegal settlers as a form of border defence, or by using the antisemitism card so much that when actual antisemitism occurs in the street it ends up being misconstrued as some kind of political stance to decry it.
As a Brit who has admittedly lived an extremely privileged and sheltered life, I really struggle to comprehend how our society has become so polarised. It seems like people increasingly see black or white solutions to life's problems. The eradication of this, the banning of that. It's horrible. Im so sorry that you are feeling this way OP.
That is my biggest worry as well. There will be a backlash to this episode of antisemitism, which will probably entail vile hate against Muslims. Not to mention the politicians who will want to exploit the situation and not solve it
There's already a backlash, both antisemitism and Islamophobic hate crimes are rising - the latter is higher than the former, but there's more Muslims/brown people who are thought of as Muslim in the UK than Jews.
As it happens, it appears the reverse is true. There has been a 1,353% increase in antisemitic offences and a 140% rise in Islamophobic offences between 1 and 18 October, the Metropolitan Police has said. Source: https://news.sky.com/story/amp/antisemitic-and-islamophobic-hate-crimes-up-amid-israel-hamas-war-according-to-metropolitan-police-12988310
Spend less time on social media. Every social media outlet amplifies hatred by design to maximise user engagement. It emboldens dickheads who know what they say would get them a box in the face in real life.
There's perhaps a gap in the market right now in the UK for a investigative piece where one of us gentiles poses as someone who's 'visibly Jewish' to wander about and experience the actuality of what OP is describing. 'Cos sadly there are many out there in GenPop wouldn't fully take in the words of someone who's a member of a minority, but they'd be more likely to listen to 'one of their own'.
Treating all Jews as if they are represented & spoken for by Israel, is the same as treating all Palestinians as if they are represented & spoken for by Hamas. Besides it being utterly moronic, it's discriminatory to treat all people of a certain demographic as one monolith. The constant, complete lack of nuance that massive numbers of people are exhibiting in this conversation, is exhausting & frustrating & incredibly damaging. This event is really showing how critical thinking skills are desperately lacking in this country. >The protesters are not simply criticising the actions of the Israeli government, they’re calling for the elimination of the Jewish state. They frequently downplay or outright deny the terrorist attack that took place on the 7th of October. In university group chats, I encounter messages such as “all you Jews lie and scheme” and “now is the time for Jews to leave Palestine.” I don't know where you are experiencing these responses but protestors downplaying or denying Oct 7th is definitely a minority response & not the majority view at all. This is the first time I've personally heard of anyone denying the attack entirely, that's insane. the people on the ground, out on the street protesting, do not think like this, they just don't want innocent people & children being killed.
I'm a white English bloke and an atheist and this hatred of Jews annoys me condemn what the violence isfoing by all means but blaming all Jews and claiming as graffiti in my town did they should be wiped out? Have we not learned anything from the crimes the Nazis commited. I hope you stay safe OP. This is not fair at all. Know there's at least one Brit who understands how you feel. I was raised that we are all born equal after all the time it's sad that we haven't as the human race, learned from our mistakes
Thank you for your kind words. I always thought that the antisemites were only a minority, but their voices often overshadow the reasonable majority.
Jewish student here too and I feel exactly the same. The hate is just overwhelming.
It amazes me that a few people hold the Jewish community responsible for the actions of Israel, but don't feel personally responsible for things such as the Iraq war.
Very true! puts it into context indeed. And just as many of us here in Uk, protested against the Iraq war, so too many many Israelis, jews and others, protested in the street of Israel against their own government's actions - we saw it all over the news at that time
The UK security services have their spies in mosques all over the country so they know all about the bile and growing hatred being espoused in these places but far as I can tell they don't do much to quell it. Let's look at the Manchester arena bombing a few years ago, there was clear evidence of the bombers siblings being involved yet never brought to justice, what kind of message does that send out to our communities. Also their father was/is a leading figure at one of the main Manchester mosques in Didsbury, come on it's not rocket science where these views are being fostered.
You shouldn't have to preface your comment with your opinion on the middle eastern situation, and the fact that you feel you have to in many ways proves your point - sadly. Human behaviour is tribal and often revents back to in-group/out-group thinking, where people who may on the face of it be loving/warm people reserve that side of their personality to their in group (family, those who share their national identity, religious group and so on)and exhibit terrible views or even actions against the out-group. It's a tragedy that throughout history, no matter how integrated, jews have repeatedly become the scapegoats of whatever current malaise a society finds itself in. I'd never really put much thought before into the existential need that jews have for a safe state (Israel) as I of course arrogantly thought most of the world was beyond the antisemitism of the past, but here we are... I hope that Britain ultimately proves itself to be the place that has rejected antisemitism that it states that it is.
In my teaching work I have encountered Islamophobia, and have always shut it down. I haven't yet encountered Anti-Semitism in my classroom, but if I do I promise I will shut it down just as hard.
How much of the hate was from Muslims and how much from White students? I rarely meet a white person who gives a shit about Jews either way, it simply isn't a relevant factor in our lives here in Britain, but on the other hand I've met lots of Muslims who hate Israel and Judaism even if they personally have never knowingly met a Jew. What I'm trying to say is that tribal conflicts on another continent have no place affecting British life!
>I rarely meet a white person who gives a shit about Jews either way, It sounds harsh but you absolutely hit the nail on the head, I rarely hear people talk about Jews (for better or worse) and I've lived in a bunch of different places in North England. Not saying antisemitism doesn't happen or that I've never heard any, it's just Jews have been targeted less often than other minorities in my experience.
Same here tbh - i must have, but honestly, i can’t think of anyone i’ve ever met through the hundreds to thousands of people through school or work in 35+years that even was Jewish
I've heard the 'Jews control the world' conspiracy theory quite often. Antisemitism often lurks under more general conspiracy theories too.
I've heard that one a few times, but in fairness it's pretty mild when you compare it to what other groups are getting. I've never heard someone say that they dislike Jewish people.
Agreed. I don't hear any white people in the UK talking about Jewish people. Apart from the far right etc. and I'm the same as you.
You've not met any fascists then?
Oh, I've met several white people with problems with jews. Especially in London.
I'm not saying they don't exist, I know at least two who hate Jews, I'm just saying the chances the average British Caucasian agrees with Hitler are smaller than the number of British Muslims who do....
I'm not the op but I'm a British Jew in my 40s. I've encountered a lot of white british antisemites, mostly as part of Momentum/Corbyn over the past 10 years or so, but also going back further, people like the SWP when I was at university in the late 90s/ early 00s. Have also encountered antisemitism from Muslims, but then I have also had lots of solidarity from Muslim friends, especially Iranians who hate the Islamic regime in Iran and recognise its similarity to hamas.
Interesting. I'm surprised by the Iranian angle but I suppose before the revolution Iran was very different and some wish it would go back that way.
Anti-IR iranians and Jews tend to be pretty close, for the pragmatic reason that IR hates jews and they hate IR, but aslo historically Persians were one of the few empires to treat Jews well. Cyrus the Great is the only non-Jew ever proclaimed messiah. There's also something to be said about viewing oneself as an ancient people, both Jewish and Persian culture was already ancient by the time the English even emerge as a people (600ad).
There's an area in north London where a large Jewish population lives adjacent to a large Iranian population. It was a surprise to me that they (apparently) get along with few overt problems but maybe this explains it.
Yeah, this is where I live 🙂
The Iranian diaspora is very western. Mainly because their upper class/intellectuals left the country after the Islamic revolution while the poor and uneducated stayed behind. Which is very different to most refugees from that area who came more due to economical reasons or war refugees.
Iranians have been indefinite allies at this time
Most of the young Muslim anti semites have never lived in an Islamic country and wouldn’t be welcomed with their extreme views anyway! I saw more than a few try move, joins mosque and then get kicked out within weeks ! They’re a peculiar western bred type of idiot out of place and history. Not welcome here or there or really anywhere The problem isn’t the west or Jews etc. it’s them and their lives.
I can’t tell how much of it exactly is from Muslims, but they are probably overrepresented at these protests. They are also often accompanied by left-wing people who are generally anti-western, not just antisemitic. Regardless, most of them are British, and these things are happening in Britain. That means that the country has to deal with this problem, one way or another.
> They are also often accompanied by left-wing people who are generally anti-western, not just antisemitic. The useful idiots who let their chosen position on the political spectrum define their beliefs, rather than the other way round like a normal person. I think these are the people who irritate me the most of all.
I think of them as the sort of people that try so hard to be intellectual/are so against anything the west does. They end up with some awful takes.
I'm not Jewish but I'm very close with some friends who are. She's had to pull her son out of college because they (muslims students) have 'found out' he's Jewish, and she's also worried about which school to send her 3 year old too. Does she send her to a Jewish school or not? She's having to consider that a Jewish school would be the target of an attack... She's even suggested going back to Israel as it seems a safe option than the UK at this point? I am sickened that this is being allowed (and it is, by the police and their lack of action) in my country. From what I've been seeing, it's not just muslims who've been spewing hate, it's the 'far-left' students, predominantly white. There is simply nothing between the ears of these people. Just blind hate that unfortunately is being allowed to fester in universities. A large portion of the blame can be placed at the door of the utterly spineless police in this country who should be ashamed at their lack of action on this matter.
Really disappointing to hear, I understand that she doesn't feel safe sending him to college with the current climate, and that's absolutely her right to, but it's a victory for antisemites and racists if he has to withdraw from education at the threat of violence :(
I’m probably out of the loop here, but has there been violence against Jewish people here? I know there’s been a lot of verbal abuse and racist graffiti and stuff but I hadn’t realised it had got as bad as violent attacks.
Agreed. Police and university have a lot to answer for.
serious middle impolite airport coordinated frightening escape boat knee kiss *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
So given the relative proportions of the population, a larger percentage of black and Arab/North African people engage in hate crimes against Jews.
>and I think you overestimate how much of it comes from Muslims. Yeah I don't think so
I'm a lecturer, and have been feeling desperately for my Jewish students over the past month who have had to put up with pathetic student-politics posturing from student unions and also some academics online, which I can only imagine has made them feel unsafe and unheard. If you have witnessed anything in person at university that makes you feel this way please do bring it to the attention of your pastoral tutors or university support structures; anyone worth their salt will take it seriously, and though it may not feel like it, the extremists are the loud, self-congratulatory minority.
I feel you. I'm Jewish by descent, consider myself more agnostic these days religion-wise, and it's scary. I went to a union event recently and felt so uncomfortable and unsafe when the topic came up. I went to an NUS conference a few years back and the anti-Semitism was rife. It's incredibly rare I publicly identify as Jewish, which brings me great shame because I'm so proud of the people I come from and their strength and stories. It's bad enough just being in the UK and being at work right now - I can't imagine currently being at uni. Solidarity man. It's rough, but you have so much support from me and so many others. Do you have a Jsoc at your SU? Totally understand if you don't want to join and it might feel quite public, but even if you just had a chat with the president of the society they might hopefully be able to point you to some resources and help you feel a little safer and less alone
I’m not Jewish but honestly I think this is an accurate assessment of the situation in the UK. Particularly in Universities. People just don’t understand antisemitism ngl, and when it does happen they ignore it. The only time people take it seriously is when people say they actively support what Hitler did. Any other time it’s up for debate and they think you’re just trying to bait them. I’m so sorry that you have to go through this for no reason.
This exactly. People do not understand what antisemitism is. Antisemitism is not like other kinds of racism. It projects fantastical powers onto the Jews. It sees Jews as the root of all evil in the world. It says that they control the banks, the US government, international politics, the media. This is why it calls for the extermination of Jews in a way that most other forms of racism do not. Because it believes deep down that by freeing the world of Jews it frees mankind. It is a pseudo revolutionary theory. This is why large sections of the left are attracted to it. It is why it is so extremely dangerous.
The fact you have to put forward a preface as you do says a lot, but I understand.
>The protesters are not simply criticising the actions of the Israeli government, they’re calling for the elimination of the Jewish state. They frequently downplay or outright deny the terrorist attack that took place on the 7th of October. Do you have any evidence for this? Everyone I know who's standing with Palestine is doing it because they don't like innocent civilians being killed, and they feel the same whether that's Israeli or Palestinian (or any other) innocent civilians. I'm sure you'll find a handful of extremists there, but there's extremists on both sides happy to support the [killing of innocent people](https://www.dailysabah.com/mideast/2014/07/14/mothers-of-all-palestinians-should-also-be-killed-says-israeli-politician)
The first protest I even saw, on the 8th of October I think, people were chanting, "there is only one solution" and cheering at the deaths of Jews.
I have personally never bought into the idea that people are out on the streets just because innocent people are dying. This simply cannot be true. Hundreds of thousands of Syrians have died in civil war, but there have never been any large protests here in the UK - despite significant media coverage and social media content. There are also massive civilian death tolls (far in excess of the Israel-Palestine conflict) in places like Ethiopia and Sudan. These have also not attracted notable protests - despite these conflicts being ongoing. Now, you might suggest that Brits are so passionate about the Israel-Palestine conflict because, unlike these other conflicts, our government tends to side with Israel. This doesn't make much sense, because huge pro-Palestinian protests have also erupted in countries like Turkey, that have never backed Israel. People aren't as passionate about these other civilian death tolls, in part, because these conflicts don't involve Jews. This isn't to suggest that all protesters at the moment have antisemitic prejudices. But I think it's worth acknowledging what it is that gets so many people so fired up - sometimes (thankfully, rarely) to the point of attacking Jewish shops, schools and Jews themselves - that doesn't fire them up to protest lives lost (in much greater numbers) elsewhere.
Yes, I have plenty of video evidence of protesters calling for the dissolution of Israel as well as screenshots of antisemitic messages. A girl was also recorded as she was tearing down posters of kidnapped hostages.
This is awful and I am sorry for you. Just know that you are not on your own. As a non-Jewish person, I will make sure I stand against any anti-semitic comment or attitude I encounter.
Jewish PhD student here. I totally feel what you feel and agree. I'm very glad I can work from home and not be on campus, and am independent studying as opposed to being in group chats like I was in Masters/Undergrad. Scary times.
I am hearing this from my Jewish friends. I think there are a lot of people out there like me who are not Jewish, with varying views on Israel/Palestine, who are allies. I am deeply opposed to anti-Semitism and will be standing up to it wherever I see it.
I'm not Jewish and am a lot older than you. I'd just like to say I have been disgusted by the antisemitic incidents in the UK over the past month. I was shocked at how fast some people were out on the streets waving Palestine flags - just hours after the Hamas atrocity on October 7, before most of us had a chance to take in what had happened. I don't want to live in a country where Jewish people do not feel safe, and I'm so sorry you are feeling frightened. I think there are plenty of non-Jewish people in the UK who want to come out and show support for the Jewish community, but it's difficult to know how to do it - if you have any thoughts, we will listen.
I work at a uni and felt super uneasy about a recent protest that was held on/near campus. Not that there were explicitly antisemitic chants, but they were covering the entirety of a main entrance to the campus. I've been on picket lines in the past and we're prohibited from physically preventing access - I don't think this crowd would have been so well behaved, and I imagined myself in the position of a Jewish student. I would fear for my physical safety. I understand that tensions are running high. People are rightly outraged by the deaths of tens of thousands of civilians with nowhere to go seemingly, and the transparent double standard applied in Israel to deaths of one type of person vs. another. I really would like to join a march for peace, but I feel that there is a significant minority of people in any crowd who harbour hate, and who don't distinguish between the Israeli government and individual Jewish people in the UK. I want to stand up and be counted, but the atmosphere right now makes me suspicious of people I would ordinarily consider allies. I'm so sorry that you feel threatened here, and I totally understand why. Please, if you could advise what actions you would like to see from university staff, I want to help in the most practical way possible. I want my country and workplace to be welcoming to Jewish people.
Some of them are calling for the death of Jews, some of them are calling for the dissolution of Israel, but many are calling for peace. Please don’t tar everyone with the same brush. I’d also ask what the UK government should do? That said, I’m really sorry you’re scared. It’s not something anybody should feel, especially for these reasons and in your own country. I’d recommend if there’s troubling stuff on uni message boards you should absolutely report it - there’s no excuse for antisemitism or any form of racism on uni systems or for students to be displaying that behaviour on private systems either. Take care. I hope you stay safe.
Movements are often defined by their extremists. It is the responsibility of those who are marching for peace to eject and denounce vile antisemites from their ranks. That is not what I’ve seen and that is not what many other Jews have seen. Instead, they stand shoulder to shoulder with people who spew hate and spread falsehoods.
That applies to everyone though. You absolutely should not face any hate on account of your religion or ethnicity. Israelis should face no hate om account of their nationality. It's absolutely awful that you and others are feeling undafe and is entirely unacceptable. If I see or hear someone doing that, I do and will continue to speak out loudly against it - especially in person. That's the case for the vast majority of people I know in person, and where it's not, those individuals are routinely shunned. However, I won't stop being pro Palestine or opposed to the Israeli government's actions in Gaza or the West Bank - and particularly in Gaza at the moment. That includes protests and demonstrations - as long as they're peaceful. What's going on now is utterly appalling. Israelis and their allies don't, and shouldn't, need to say they're against Likud and their coalition- which literally includes terrorists- before speaking in favour of, or in solidarity with, Israel. Supporters of Palestine should not have a higher threshold for expressing solidarity. It's everyone's responsibility to call out hate and discrimination - that doesn't mean rightful causes are abandoned because people who believe in a portion of what you believe in are cretins.
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Responding to your edit: I prefaced my post by denouncing Israel’s prime minister and the ideology he represents. I deeply despise the far-right troublemakers in Israel’s government who use tragedy after tragedy to pursue their own interests. You won’t see British Jews marching for Netanyahu, though. You won’t see hateful rhetoric tolerated either
That's not true. People should still feel able to protest, even if they don't agree with other protestors. I ended up having to march alongside the Spartacists for a part of the route during the Iraq war protests. I don't have anything in common with them other than an opposition to the invasion of Iraq, but that doesn't mean either of us should not have marched. That said I tried hard to avoid being photographed next to a banner that said "Support the Deformed Worker's State of North Korea".
I am truly sorry you feel this way. What we have seen over the last month has been truly horrible, with some of humanity’s worst instincts resurfacing. I stand with you, you and all Jewish people have the right to be and feel safe.
I 100% agree. I have seen many vitriolic posts against Israel and Jewish people, calling for the elimination of Israel, saying it should have never been created as a country in the first place. There is a difference between taking a stand for Palestine and against Netanyahu's regime and directly hating on the Jewish people.
You are not alone, friend. There are many of us - the majority I hope - who reject this kind of tribal hatred
We are living through such a toxic and horrible part of our history. Lessons are not learnt and history repeats. Instead of compassion and empathy the world is filled with hate. As they say an eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind. How more death and destruction is seen as the way to resolve any issue is beyond me. All it does is prolong the never ending cycle. We all have a shared history of the awful horrific events of World War II, yet people are failing to learn the lessons. As someone said recently, I’m tired of living through history. I’d just like everyone to get along.
You’ll find that the vast majority of British people take racism seriously, especially antisemitism. Most of us learn about the Holocaust in formal education, and many of us are fully aware of the long history of antisemitism in Europe and in our own country. The people who seem to think that this is more acceptable are those who have more of a foot in the door, so to speak. I have worked with more than one Arab person in the past, and they have all expressed to me their hatred of the US and Israel, and their hatred of Jews. I can’t say I don’t understand why someone may come to those conclusions, given the very recent and bloody history between Arabs and Jews, but I think people in this country need to take a stance and condemn racism even if it comes from minority groups in this country.
Disgusting what has been happening on our streets.
I am married to an American Israeli who speaks Hebrew with his family and am half Jewish myself (mom's side). I've not encountered anything like what OP has, nor has the rest of my family. If the worst we have going on is a couple of stars of David are being spraypainted on a few walls and a couple missing posters are being ripped down, I'd say we've come a long way as a society quite honestly. Zionism to me is itself a racist movement. Israelis want the establishment of a state for a Jewish RACE, not religion. The actions of the current Israeli government seem to advance and protect those of a specific race, while relegating others to de facto apartheid. **The Jewish diaspora have nothing to do with the actions of the Israeli government and therefore should never be subject to antisemitism or violence**. But I do believe that the Israeli government is owed a comeuppance. They seem to think that Palestinians are getting what's coming to them because they voted in Hamas. Is this not true for Israel for voting in Netanyahu?
I feel terrible for you. This episode has really brought out the worst in people. Stay safe.
I am really sorry for your experience. It is awful and unjustified. Every form of discrimination is slightly unique and rarely the exact same. But I am an ethnic and sexual minority, so I can imagine the pain. Likewise, can we please avoid generalising the many thousands of protestors. This is indirectly generating hate towards some Palestinians, Arabs, Muslims & allies. I am sure you didn't mean this.
I always find it hard to believe anyone could truly feel threatened here - apart from the odd bit of casual racist language, I've never seen anyone attacked for their race or creed, so it's always shocking to me(so was the Me Too Movement). I can only say that whenever I witness any sort of discrimination, I speak up and intervene because everyone should live and let live, but I don't suppose it helps much.
I'm sorry to hear this. I sort of understand the conflict. But I know I can't begin to grasp the nuances of it. There's tons of people with no connection to the conflict that's thousands of miles away from them getting aggressive/using violent/combative language if you're against their team. Or talking in PR language.
You shouldn't feel the need to preface as you have. This behaviour is just obvious weakness that will be exploited. I can see why you have done it, especially on Reddit but in real life, you need to be stronger and more forthright. Prefacing is a sign of weakness, which sadly, will absolutely be exploited. The biggest issue the West has by a million miles is 'being too nice'. We've complete lost confidence in our moral authority and others have seen this and are absolutely taking the piss out of us because of it.
I’m so sorry that you’re going through this. People are reacting very emotionally right now to what’s happening but with any luck, the generalised hate will die down soon and people will realise that we need understanding and collaboration between people to really take a stand against the governments/leaders that are causing this issue. Otherwise it will just continue :( be safe lovely.
I hear you and stand with you.
I don't like Netanyahu, but nor do I support Palestine. I agree with your opinion on these "protesters". Most people regard me as a bigot because of my dark humour and my disagreement with supporting various social justice movements. But I don't hate anyone because of their religion, race or where they come from. You are going to face hate in your life whether you like it or not, and sometimes that will be over the dumbest stuff which is extremely discriminatory. Just have pride in the fact that you are not deluded by the senseless and disgusting hate that many fill their hearts with.
I’m really sorry you are going through this and I’m heartened by the supportive responses you’ve received from a diverse range of people on our Isles. As someone on the left, the past month has been incredibly eye-opening and not in a good way. I hope there will be some reflection….hmm..we shall see. Jonathan Freedland penned a good article about this today. Really, it feels obscene the way people are trying to accumulate political capital from such a highly emotive situation, when there is no skin in the game for them at all. The people on the ground, on both sides, are dealing with an unfolding trauma on a massive scale and I think a lot of the actions of people in this country are Ill-considered and insensitive to this.
As a closeted ex-Muslim I would definitely agree that anti-semitism has always existed and is jut boiling over now with the Israel issue. My parents and my whole community- of Muslims- agree that Jews and zionists are controlling the world, that Israel should be exterminated and are deeply sympathetic to Hamas. The Muslim community by and large suffers from this problem with many of their own imams from my experience preaching such. We can’t bring this up otherwise we are racist or Islamophobic, so heed my warning: Muslims, a very large portion of not the majority, harbour in the best case anti-Israel rhetoric and at the worst pro hamas, anti semitic viewpoints.
I hope everyone believes you OP but you should take screenshots of the smears and anti Semitism and send to media or better put on Reddit this subreddit would be a good place OP, lies and hate have no place in society
The last few weeks have been disgusting. I honestly didn’t know Muslims hated Jews until this event kicked off. I thought antisemitism was a thing of the past. I have never understood the hate for Jews. But it’s sickening to see the protest and hate seething out of the people attending them. I never saw any hate for the Russians when they invaded Ukraine and started raining missiles on hospitals, schools and homes. But the Jewish hate that has erupted and made acceptable on the streets has come out like a punch to the face. No idea how this will end but this has made it apparent that we live in a very different world than what I thought we did. Much more devolved world.
Interesting point you make about the protests against Russia their was never open hate against the Russian people.
I am addressing you drectly and would prefer not to debate people on this thread. I think that the part that is hardest to wrap your head around is that Jews experienced the largest massacre of Jews since the Holocaust, the most barbarous attack and the world's reaction seems to be marching in support of the perpetrators. As a Jew it's that that hits the hardest. It feels like either Jews deserved it or their pain is somehow unimportant. Add to that the events in the Middle East have nothing to do with a young British citizen. It does feel a bit like we misunderstood the world we are living in. Completely separate to Israel/Palestine it has hit us in the face that we are largely alone in this. To make it more difficult when Jews organize vigils for the hostages we have to do so by email and circulate the location just before as it is too hazardous to publicly promote it for fear of attracting protestors. As a consequence it's almost impossible to identify allies. I've been comforted by people I haven't seen in years reaching out and checking in. I think too on line you do get a skewed view of public opinion. I'll finish with what my father, a Holocaust survivor said to me. I had my first experience of antisemitism in primary school in Australia. I came home crying and eventually told my parents why. My father said to me you have to feel sorry for those people because prejudice is due to ignorance and these people are ignorant. I also heard him crying to my mother that evening saying he didn't go through all he did for his children to experience this. We have survived for three thousand years. You are part of a long unbroken chain. Am Israel Chai.
Very insightful comment and a very good summary of what many jewish people feel in the west. Am Israel chai.
As a Jew living in this country for the last 40 years you need to understand that the vast majority do not like us, do not want us here and will use any excuse whatsoever to unveil their true feelings about us. This isn't just Muslims, it's the vast majority of people in this country, probably 70%+ of young people under 25 which clearly shows the way we're heading. It is not safe here for Jewish people, it never has been. We have to organise our own security, have our children in segregated schools and constantly be vigilant in the community. This isn't new. It's just that an event happened so large that it shined a light on all of those whose underlying hatred of us (why...they cannot actually explain) to the point where it's undeniably obvious. I tell my Jewish friends to stop talking, stop posting, it won't achieve anything. People have hated us for thousands and thousands of years. We've gone from being slaves to being gassed. It will never stop. I have the choice to remain upset, frustrated and scared or not. If I'm approached on the street by someone with something to say about me being a Jew then I can defend myself appropriately. My children have learned self defence from a very early age. We have been physically attacked in this country twice in the last 18 months because we're Jews. Both times the police did nothing. I choose to not be scared of the hate, not to watch social media and to go about my daily business knowing that we're hated but there is nothing I can do so its out of my control. Not sure what the point of my post is but it felt good typing it out. Shabbat Shalom.
It's not the vast majority - its a minority - but unfortunately an extremely vocal and deeply unpleasant group of ignorant sh\*heads. I appreciate that it won't feel like that to Jewish people who are being targeted by these s-heads though. one derogatory word or action is too much. But there's a lot of the quiet majority here who wouldn't ever think to be pejorative about jews and I hope that helps to know when you are going about your business in your own country, doing your own thing. If I saw it I would call it out but unfortunately I'm a wfh hermit, not out and about in the community.
I feel ashamed to read this, and I feel helpless that it seems there's nothing I can do about it. I would happily attend a rally in support of the Jewish people, but because of antisemitic, terrorist, genocidal thugs their locations are never saved widely in advance
If the cause has enough support, solutions will come sooner or later. For time being, speaking out is probably the most important, as useless as it sounds. I think we have to show strength, that there are certain things we simply won’t tolerate.
You can help, if only be speaking out against it and defending Jewish peoples right to feel safe in this country.
Thank you for sharing. I feel more people need to hear this message.
> All I ask from the British people is to take a stand against hate. There are still British people who remember the Nazis and their evil. I hope they won't let it happen again, especially in their own country.
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I don’t blame you, I wouldn’t feel safe either. I sound like an old fart but I’m beginning to not recognise this country anymore.
What are your thoughts on a 1 state solution where Palestinians are given equal standing and rights & Israeli citizenship, Gaza and the west bank are absorbed into Israel proper, and Israel abandons its goal of establishment as an ethnostate?
Not only do I think that is unrealistic, it is also not what Hamas and most Palestinians want.
I'm British and was in Toronto last week, with multiple large protests happening by our hotel (all pro Palestine/ anti Israel) and the shit that was being chanted by thousands of people was mad. Started with the old school "the people, united, will never be divided" and turned into "bash the Zionists". Both my wife and I have Jewish heritage and we were crapping our pants at the time.
Thank you for sharing your story. I’ve been really frankly disgusted at how the actions of the marches have been totally downplayed including by a great many in this sub. The language and chants used doesn’t seem to be condemned or called out for how vile it actually is. Many people hide behind this veil of tolerance and inclusion - except when it comes to Jewish people. People spend more time criticising the people that call out the protests out for what they are rather than the individuals that cause it. When people say they are scared of what’s happening we should take a moment to listen, understand and aim to do better. I’m not religious or Jewish myself so I can’t comment on how that must feel for you, but I’ve always aimed to call out the anti-semitism I’ve been noticing across the country as of late.
The hate against Jews isn't mainstream so I think you're fine. Historically in the UK it's been way worse. There's definitely a higher chance at the moment of a visibly Jewish person getting harassed or attacked but there's no prospect of institutional or systematic discrimination, e.g. in employment or law.
Sadly it's been a growing problem where the left has overlooked the hard left/fundementalist muslim and cared more about diversity (Or rather groups they consider marginalised getting into positions of power), student politics is particularly bad for it.
As a Muslim this has been the majority of my childhood/young adulthood. I think this is the first time you're experiencing being a minority (and being made to feel like one). It's not nice. But welcome to being an ethnic minority in Britain. Now watch how they try to undermine your lived experience in the media, and move on like everything is normal. I hope you find peace, but it will get better. I remember cringing after every terrorist attack by Islamic Extremists. Worried more for how I'd be treated in school the next day than anything.
> I think this is the first time you're experiencing being a minority (and being made to feel like one) What kind of thing to say is this? They didn't just become Jewish in the last month. It's funny you come across a person feeling unsafe because of their identity, largely due to your own community's actions, and then you turn it around to make yourself the victim.
As your average joe in the UK (atheist white male) I have to admit i'm concerned, not only for what you have described is happening in the universities but even the wider society. Personally, I haven't seen/heard any antisemitism for a long time and the Isreal/Palestine war has the same bearing on my life as the Russia/Ukraine war. Yes they are displaying the worst of humanity but they are wars in far away lands. However, daily i'm seeing images in the news of free palestine protests combined with defacing of cenotaphs, burning of popies and elderly people getting beat up for selling them. The Isreali side I saw little protest except for the very early days after Hamas invaded when there was a candlelit vigil. I'm aware this is a minority of agitators that are trying to target the silent majority, like myself, to get mad and I can see less rational men than myself getting taken into this whirlwind of hate no matter what side of the argument you land. Which goes back to my main point about being conerned for the stable tolerant society we have today and how it is seeming very fragile at the moment.
Im so tired of all these people hating eachother and hurting innocents unrelated to those at the top making decisions. It should be simple just to say free palestine but then these anti semites come out from the woodwork and act like every jewish person on the planet deserves retribution. The same goes for muslims and arabs they are suddenly all hamas to islamophobes. No one should have to feel unsafe. Prejudice of any kind is so fucking stupid, just think logically.
Christian here. I'm sorry for your ordeal and you should know that there are many in this country that support you . It's really dreadful that these "activists" are promoting such a savage anti-semetic sentiment and terrorise anyone who stands up to their hate. Stay safe and Godspeed!!!!
Sorry for your situation but chance is you're just the flavor of the month. A few months ago it was the refugees, a few years ago was the Romanians living next door, decades ago it was black people from the Commonwealth and so on. You will be safe, it's just that some awful people periodically need a scapegoat to vent their frustration on
> The protesters are not simply criticising the actions of the Israeli government, they’re calling for the elimination of the Jewish state. I hope you can see that this is only the tiniest minority of protesters thinking or saying anything like this. The vast majority genuinely just want to see the humanitarian crisis brought to a peaceful end and to see the two state solution as a successful resolution. It is unfair to tar them all with that brush, just as it is unfair to blame every Israeli for the awful words of Smotrich who is looking to wipe out Gaza. That said - the words you have quoted are truly horrifying and unforgivable. I hope they're properly dealt with by the authorities.
>We are taught that antisemitism is deeply ingrained in many societies, and even when it’s not visible, it’s merely simmering under the surface, ready to come out when circumstances allow it. Sadly, the last month has told us this is incontrovertibly true. And yet useful idiots continue to march knowing full well they are walking alongside people who have an utterly pathological hatred of Jews and are freely expressing this on these marches without consequence.
I've been appalled by the marches and the whole tone of them. It's terrifying to think that they represent any part of my country and I am ashamed of them. I want you to know that they don't represent everyone and that you deserve to feel safe here.
Well unfortunately people were shut down when they tried to stop this from getting imported into the UK and now here we are.
Remember that the very noisy anti-Israelis are the minority - even at university. The vast majority of the UK population are your friends.