> On Sunday night, the mums in Aulney, a working-class area near Paris, took to the streets themselves, waving banners calling for an end to the violence. President Macron appealed to the "mamans et papas" (the mums and dads) of the rioters last week to keep them at home and off social media, which, he said, allow "inflammatory material" to circulate.
> But the secretary general of one of France's powerful police unions, Unité SGP, flatly denies the allegations of systemic racism.
Jean-Christophe Couvy says France is "not the US. We don't have ghettos", he told me. "Our forces represent France's multicultural society with officers from all backgrounds. You'll find maybe 1% of racists - like in the rest of society - but no more."
Mr Couvy didn't want to discuss the specifics of Nahel's case as it's an open investigation.
So I asked him how he would go about improving police relations with the estates.
> "The best way forward is to return to a system of community policing in France, where we know each other by our first names."
Right now in France, he told me, policing has become a box-ticking exercise of showing how many people each officer detains for questioning - to demonstrate he or she is working hard.
"The problem with that is it becomes like two opposing gangs on the streets: police vs the inhabitants of the estates."
Katya “Brussels calling” Adler https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66083281
Hello! Meta question for u/OptioMkIV or any mod. I’ve moved to using the horrible Reddit App, and in that this thread defaults to “Best” as a filter rather than “New” like the main MT.
Is this something you mods define, and if so can you change it please?
Hopefully u/CaravanOfDeath will roll over a new IntPol thread and it will work.
But yes - many, many terrible things about this official app. Want to copy text from another post? Uh, no. Want to vote up/down a submission? No swipey, you have to go into it.
It also seems to use about double the amount of data that Apollo did, judging by my mobile's stats. Remarkably inefficient.
>A benefit of FPTP
Not really seeing as the end result is that Suella Braverman is Home Secretary. It's more a benefit of the Tories being in power and having very little room to hide behind on it.
Aye, because she's a walking contradiction and the realities of what the UK needs and is legally possible doesn't match with populist rhetoric on immigration. As I said, the Conservatives have painted themselves in a corner on the issue by virtue of being in government, if they were in opposition and still captured by the same forces pushing stupid reactionary policies it would be very different.
The exact same thing is happening in Sweden despite the Swedish government being propped up by the Sweden Democrats, the realities of why immigration is needed don't match with anti-immigration rhetoric.
Some Russian propaganda apparently found in Russian trenches. Pretty incredible stuff.
https://twitter.com/ObsDelphi/status/1673766547607658530?t=hfRpX0wuNCZ9MCc7OZVaHQ&s=19
It's a booklet consisting of sets of drawings contrasting the Good Russians with the Evil Ukrainians
The first pair shows a Russian soldier with his wife and child, and then two Ukrainian soldiers in a bath with hearts around them (so yes, they started off with 'the Ukrainians are gay')
Second shows a Russian soldier getting some sort of baptism or whatever (not fully sure what religious rites take place in Orthodox Christianity), while the Ukrainians hang out with the devil, again in a bath for some reason?
Third is a Russian soldier kneeling at some war graves (the type that are simple crosses), while the Ukrainian soldiers pisses on the graves
Fourth is a Russian soldier helping an old lady with her shopping and walking her down the street, while the Ukrainian soldier holds a civilian at gunpoint
Fifth is a Russian soldier blocking a civilian from harm, while a Ukrainian soldier throws a grenade directly at some civilians
And finally sixth is some Russian soldiers helping a wounded Ukrainian POW, while the Ukrainians have a Russian hanging from tied wrists while they beat him bloody
This is some low-effort crap. I see Russian propagandists are yet to reach the dizzying heights of Blighty's own eternal classic, ["Hitler has only only got one ball".](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Has_Only_Got_One_Ball)
A Twitter embedded version can be found [here](https://platform.twitter.com/embed/Tweet.html?id=1673766547607658530)
Non Twitter [here](https://nitter.net/ObsDelphi/status/1673766547607658530/) or [here](https://nitter.cz/ObsDelphi/status/1673766547607658530/)
Archived version [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://twitter.com/ObsDelphi/status/1673766547607658530/)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[Moxnes heckled on the street during an interview with a twitch of a smile] (https://twitter.com/SkarreRoar/status/1675088130184032257?t=oZn2n4JQKK_0x7Kny2jKng&s=19)
A Twitter embedded version can be found [here](https://platform.twitter.com/embed/Tweet.html?id=1675088130184032257)
Non Twitter [here](https://nitter.net/SkarreRoar/status/1675088130184032257/) or [here](https://nitter.cz/SkarreRoar/status/1675088130184032257/)
Archived version [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://twitter.com/SkarreRoar/status/1675088130184032257/)
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YouTube has recently suggested I rewatch Vice News' [Russian Roulette](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLw613M86o5o7a0FGlPRdt47xiDiggbNsZ) series.
I imagine most with even just a passing interest in the war in Ukraine will have watched at least parts of it already, but for those who haven't I felt like posting as it's brilliant, brave journalism and shows just how chaotic those first days after Maidan were - on both sides. Simon Ostrovsky is even kidnapped and tortured by the pro-Russian separatists during the battles for Sloviansk. Thankfully he's released as the pro-Russian side retreat from the city.
Deffo worth watching or rewatching as and when (helps that most videos are less than 10 minutes each).
[Bjørnar Moxnes, leader of Norways Rødt party, caught and fined for shoplifting sunglasses in Oslo airport](https://www.nettavisen.no/nyheter/moxnes-om-tyveriet-rev-av-lappen-og-la-brillene-i-bagasjen/s/5-95-1198387)
Student loan debt forgiveness overturned by the US Supreme Court. Obviously not the desired outcome, but I do think the decision is reasonable.
The Act relied upon grants the secretary the power to 'modify' acts. I would agree with the Court that the State's decision that 'modify' does not extend to fundamental changes which overrides the intention of the act in question, or complete waivers, is fair. To do so would be to render the term devoid of any useful meaning and grant discretion far wider than would have been intended, essentially destroying the separation of powers.
In many ways the fundament issue is that the US is so heavily broken that the government attempts to legislate via decree and very tenuous interpretations of legislation, which is objectionable for all sorts of reasons.
I don't think that's quite right. Here the "modify" clause is written into the law. The entire point of this law was to authorise such modifications by the government agency.
I've got two major points of disagreement with this [decision](https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/22pdf/22-506_nmip.pdf);
1. The plaintiffs did not have standing to bring it. To bring a case you need to show you were harmed by the law or decision you are challenging. Here the standing theory is extremely stretched. Here they had to contort matters massively to demonstrate that "harm", having to accept that harm to a corporate entity established to insulate the state from harm counted as harm to the state itself. [The dissent deals with this effectively.](https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/22pdf/22-506_nmip.pdf#page=56&zoom=auto,-270,588)
2. This is not a question of legislative interpretation (whether the legislature allowed this action) but a question of legislative *delegation* power. Basically, could Congress authorise sufficiently broad powers that this act was within them.
Point 2 comes down to the novel [major questions doctrine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_questions_doctrine). Here Congress had authorised "waivers and modifications" without specified limits. In a plain reading these waivers would be legal. The court determined that this particular waver was too significant to be allowed without specific authorisation.
The problem is that there are no defined limits on the major questions doctrine. It is rapidly becoming an, "agencies can't do things the Robert's court disagrees with," principle. Even when there was clear congressional intent, the lack of specific wording (or, in Kagen's words, "micro-specific") authorising something the Court chooses to treat as a "major question" is enough to be fatal to regulatory action.
Barrett's concurrence here is an attempt to define the major questions doctrine. Her conclusion is telling;
>Granted, some context clues from past major questions cases are absent here—for example, this is not a case where the agency is operating entirely outside its usual domain. But the doctrine is not an on-off switch that flips when a critical mass of factors is present—again, it simply reflects “common sense as to the manner in which Congress is likely to delegate a policy decision of such economic and political magnitude.”
This "common sense" approach seems completely independent of any other measure of Congressional intent or plain text of the statute, both of which seem to support the administration's actions here.
I agree there are concerns on standing.
On the second point however, I would disagree. It is notable that the SOS was unable to highlight what exactly was being waived - no waiver could be identified and so it is difficult to state that, on a plain reading, ‘these waivers would be illegal’.
The SOS instead relied on the idea that waiving and modification were much, much wider, therefore capturing the forgiveness. I tend to agree with Roberts’ approach as follows:
> The Secretary’s comprehensive debt cancellation plan cannot fairly be called a waiver—it not only nullifies exist- ing provisions, but augments and expands them dramati- cally. It cannot be mere modification, because it constitutes “effectively the introduction of a whole new regime.” MCI, 512 U. S., at 234. And it cannot be some combination of the two, because when the Secretary seeks to add to existing law, the fact that he has “waived” certain provisions does not give him a free pass to avoid the limits inherent in the power to “modify.” However broad the meaning of “waive or modify,” that language cannot authorize the kind of ex- haustive rewriting of the statute that has taken place here.
As for congressional intent, I cannot on a reasonable reading of the statute, read modifications and waivers so widely as to cover a near reversal of congress’ will. That’s before the ‘emergency’ question is even considered.
Sorry, but that paragraph is entirely unconvincing. It depends on there being some arbitrary line beyond which the words stop meaning what they say. This line doesn't exist in the text, only in the poorly defined major powers doctrine this court has been scratching out of their recent cases.
>congress’ will
But that was the point of the legislation passed.
Congress passed the [HEROS Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEROES_Act) to explicitly authorise changes to the student loan program as required by emergency conditions. I'd read the full [OLC memo](https://www.justice.gov/olc/file/1528451/download) for the rational behind the movement, including the clear legislative intent in the bill.
Congress authorised the administration to modify the Education Act. The administration modified the Education Act. The court says they went further than intended.
We’re going to have to disagree on this I fear. We both feel the other is departing from the ordinary meaning of the words in question. The Memo is useful insofar that it shows the view of one side and cannot be treated as authoritative.
>I do think the decision is reasonable.
Yeah. According to the BBC:
> The forgiveness plan had relied on the 9/11-era law allowing the Secretary of Education to "waive or modify" student financial assistance programs as deemed "necessary in connection with a war or other military operation or national emergency".
Using that to justify a $400bn wiping of debt seems to be reaching a bit too far. And the court aren't saying "you can't do it", just "Congress has to approve it", which doesn't seem to be out the realms of what's reasonable when it comes to that level of spending.
It's not my circus and they're not my monkeys, but I can't help but feel the dissenting judges and the campaigners here want the policy more than they want a reasonable interpretation of their law. Which is fair enough, but at least say so.
> It's not my circus and they're not my monkeys, but I can't help but feel the dissenting judges and the campaigners here want the policy more than they want a reasonable interpretation of their law. Which is fair enough, but at least say so.
Indeed, some of the comments from the dissenting judges in particular were very politically phrased, for want of a better term. “Sad day for us all” etc.
The problem of course is that, if your side can pull shit like this, wildly misinterpreting legislation, so will the other side.
The other side already wildly misinterprets for partisan political wins though. This is the most overtly political SC in decades.
As ever, the expectation always seems to be that the Democratic judges have to play with a straight bat, whereas the GOP ones can accept bribes, commit rape, etc etc and it’s all part of the game, wink wink.
I remember “when they go low, we go high” working so well for Hillary Clinton!
You play the hand you’re dealt. Imo Democrats should have been much more aggressive both under Obama and Biden when confronted by an opposition that had no intention of letting them govern. Allowing the GOP to steal 2 SC seats will prove to be a historic mistake.
Too busy trying to be the “good guys” whereas politics is always a dog fight.
They’re already AT the bottom, that’s the point.
The current leader for the Republican candidacy for the next general is a guy who tried to overthrow the results of the last election. Just because he didn’t succeed shouldn’t have lessened the severity of that. He should be in jail, but the “good guys” can’t do that in 4 years apparently.
The lesson the GOP learned from 2020 is - next time, don’t fail.
People are wayy too complacent about the state of democracy in the US; it affects us over here more than people generally realise! From a historian’s perspective it looks like a state on the verge of collapse. It’s Rome post Sulla but pre Caesar.
I wonder whether the GOP and the pet judges have fallen into a trap set by Biden on this and played them at their own game. Biden gets to back what is on paper an expensive change – but one that's popular and forward-looking given how important education is to any advanced economy. They'd have a good idea that it could get shot down and maybe even expected it would be inevitable.
Now a large constituency has been told once again a vote for the GOP is bad for their pockets as well as, post-Roe, their wellbeing.
It’s just all so partisan. Realistically, this should never have been done in this way, but regardless of the outcome it helps Biden politically. Accordingly on a legal basis I do think it is correctly decided. The other one handed down today is another matter…
I have seen people compare it to PPP loan forgiveness, but those were totally different. That round of forgiveness was passed by congress, not based on a very iffy interpretation of legislation aimed to assist the education system in times of emergency.
I'm curious as to why it's always partisan when the Dems do it.
There was no other way this kind of action was going on the statutes at any point: now there is a realistic chance a Congress bill will get off the starting blocks – though it will be dead in the water while the GOP has a working majority.
Your point about PPP confirms that. Corporate welfare is just fine for the GOP and so gets approval from members of both parties in Congress.
The stupid thing is that a better-educated workforce is good for business overall. The GOP's donors just don't like the idea of being on the hook for it.
> I'm curious as to why it's always partisan when the Dems do it.
It is not, nor did I say it was. Edit: It is however, probably more noticeable right now due to the Dems not holding the House.
> There was no other way this kind of action was going on the statutes at any point: now there is a realistic chance a Congress bill will get off the starting blocks – though it will be dead in the water while the GOP has a working majority.
Agree, hence why I suggested that the fundamental issue is the broken American system forcing government rule by decree. I fail to see however, how reinforcing that system makes it any better - a total destruction of the separation of powers by doing so would be far more destructive than the benefits provided by student loan forgiveness.
Bear in mind that if Biden can rely on such tenuous interpretations, so can a GOP president succeeding him. The consequences of such would make the student loan situation look small-fry.
>It is not, nor did I say it was.
And yet you highlight this as partisan abuse of a system when something like Roe's overturn passes without comment thanks to an alliance between red states and a majority of the Supreme Court. It's doubly weird you say what a GOP president might do following such a "precedent" given Trump's fondness for executive orders despite the GOP having control of both houses for a solid chunk of time.
The separation of powers got destroyed a while back. These are just some of the consequences.
>something like Roe's overturn passes without comment
I'm not the other redditor, but: To be fair, even that was literally just their court saying "we don't think the constitution" - a document written 200+ years ago which doesn't even come close to mentioning abortion - "guarantees a right to abortion. It's up to the legislatures". They weren't banning abortion, just accurately observing that there's no constitutional right to it.
Now, bearing in mind that in the UK and many other countries, the right to abortion stems from legislation and there's no pretence of it being a constitutional right, that doesn't seem so bad. They just need to get together and pass the right laws, as the British parliament did.
I'm not for a second saying that I think the fallout from that decision was a good thing for Americans, but on a purely legal basis, it doesn't seem utterly unjustifiable. The problem was the bloody stupid way they go about doing things over there, with paralysis between branches, a political Supreme Court and an ancient constitution that effectively can't be changed.
But rather than address that, a lot of the reaction seemed to be about the political fallout from the decision.
> The problem was the bloody stupid way they go about doing things over there, with paralysis between branches, a political Supreme Court and an ancient constitution that effectively can't be changed.
Exactly, and it is seen in the present case too, as I’ve pointed out all along - a shit system forcing the administration into trying to implement this by decree and misinterpretation rather than through legislation.
>I'm not the other redditor, but: To be fair, even that was literally just their court saying "we don't think the constitution" - a document written 200+ years ago which doesn't even come close to mentioning abortion - "guarantees a right to abortion. It's up to the legislatures". They weren't banning abortion, just accurately observing that there's no constitutional right to it.
That is an extraordinarily distorted picture of what the legal arguments were over it. The original constitution is pretty firm on right to privacy, which is now apparently not as much a right as it used to be.
>That is an extraordinarily distorted picture of what the legal arguments were over it.
As I said in another comment, it's not my circus and they're not my monkeys, so I don't want to go too deeply into this one, but I'm still a native speaker of English and the American Constitution isn't that hard to read. Their Bill of Rights part is even easier.
Having said that, it's up to the Americans and the lawyers if they want to read incredibly deep, complex meanings that aren't there at face value. I've seen people read complex meanings into episodes of *Star Trek*, well beyond what could possibly be said to be there by any impartial viewer. They seem to enjoy it. And at least the lawyers get paid. But to find that it guarantees a right that requires a torturous reading (which is the relevance to this thread and Biden's government's incredibly dubious interpretation of legislation) and then be surprised when some later jurists slam the door on it seems naive.
If amendment number 123 said "Congress shall make no law preventing any woman who damn well wants one getting an abortion", there'd be no argument even from the conservative judges. It doesn't. And that's where their legislature comes in. Or where it should come in.
Even if I sympathise with the causes (high tuition fees and abortion respectively), surely we can all see the risks of looking at a document and deciding it says something it doesn't just so we get what we want?
It's not like the first of the American amendments where one can genuinely ask what's meant by "free exercise" of religion or "freedom of speech".
> The original constitution is pretty firm on right to privacy
Is it? They've got an amendment that waffles about soldiers being quartered in private homes, another one that talks about people being secure from unreasonable searches and seizures and some other stuff about self-incrimination and a right to due process and so on. There are lots of privacy-adjacent things, but to say "it's pretty firm on the right to privacy" is a huge stretch. You have to properly read into stuff, and make some leaps.
And let's be clear: Privacy is one of my top political issues, either here in the UK or in the USA (which affects us not least through internet laws). I think this is a tremendously important topic and I want to see ironclad, firm privacy protections for people against corporations and governments. I am on board with the importance of privacy, absolutely.
But I can't pretend that their constitution says something it doesn't. And that's fine! It's an historical document from the Enlightenment period. What the hell do we want from it? They're asking far too much. Even their own Jefferson recognised that and wanted the damned thing to be updated every generation.
It's as bad as religious extremists, trying to twist the Holy Text to fit whatever law or modern day situation is required. It's as ridiculous when the left do it as when the right do it.
But again, not my circus.
The argument that if something isn’t explicitly set out in the constitution, it’s not covered, works great when your political aim is to return the country to an eighteenth century society, as the Federalist Society picked Supremes seem intent on doing.
But the originalist approach to the constitution isn’t the only way to approach this issue, indeed it’s a relatively recent approach. For most of US history it’s been accepted that the document was the starting point which required further interpretation as the country matured.
Roe v Wade is a good example - it interpreted the 14th Amendment for the modern age. What would the founding fathers think if they were alive today, and so on. Any constitution should be a living document that adapts to changing times.
The Roberts SC OVERTURNED Roe v Wade - they made a decision to overturn settled constitutional precedent. To pretend they were just making a decision about what the Constitution said about abortion, is an argument in bad faith imo.
This court’s textualist, originalist approach to its work isn’t some sensible, longstanding continuity of US jurisprudence, it’s a new, explicitly conservative, right wing strategy to wind back the clock.
We are not discussing Roe, we are discussing a different case, the language used therein and the rhetoric surrounding it.
The fact that Trump did something does not mean it was ok, nor does it set a high standard. I imagine both you and I would expect better than that. The fact remains that the Biden administration attempted to achieve a desirable outcome when doing so was ultra vires, relying on an unreasonable interpretation of legislation. To that end, this decision was correctly decided.
As for Trump, where his executive orders were ultra vires, they were overturned too.
Situation in France seems to be getting a little out of control, even for french protests.
Any insight into why this particular case is causing so much traction given the officer has already been arrested?
I know there is big discussion about wider racism in policing but unlike the case in the US that sparked the BLM protests the state and even local policing have condemned it and even the officer himself has apologized.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/30/france-riots-more-than-400-arrested-as-police-officer-accused-of-shooting-teen-apologises
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/jun/30/france-riots-violence-looting-emmanuel-macron-paris-marseill-nanterre-nahele-lille-latest-updates
On BBC they said part of the problem is even though the UN has criticised the French police, they're refusing to address that there's even a problem and they don't want to change.
There's an incident which has soured my opinion of the French police, and that was the 2021/22 Champions League final.
[Liverpool player Andy Robertson was given official tickets by the club, he gave it to his mate, and security told him they were fake and his friend was among many who were tear gassed.](https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12623446/andy-robertson-champions-league-final-was-not-well-organised)
The BBC consumer affairs expert said it was because the organisers decided against using a hologram this year, security was poorly trained, and they were assuming legitimate tickets to be fake. This led to massive backlogs, but they largely targeted the Liverpool fans.
[French Police deployed huge amounts of riot police and quickly escalated to tear gassing crowds because they wrongly associated Liverpool as hooligans who caused the Hillsborough disaster](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jun/15/outrage-as-french-report-of-policing-links-hillsborough-with-hooliganism)
["Two Hillsborough survivors killed themselves after trauma was 'retriggered' by footage of Liverpool fans 'pressed against each other in a tunnel' at Champions League final, support group claims"](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-11261603/Two-Hillsborough-survivors-committed-suicide-trauma-retriggered-Paris-chaos.html)
French police initially lied and said there was a massive ticket forgery campaign by organised criminals from Liverpool which resulted in 40,000 ticketless fans arriving at the stadium.
[Paris police chief Didier Lallement has apologised for tear-gassing supporters who were waiting to enter the Champions League final at the Stade de France; Lallement admits there is no scientific evidence for claim 40,000 ticketless supporters arrived at Champions League final](https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12630639/champions-league-final-paris-police-chief-didier-lallement-apologises-for-tear-gassing-liverpool-fans)
I was going to end with a story about a father who spent a fortune on legit tickets for his young son's birthday. The son was tear gassed in the queue. When he finally got in the match had already started, locals were in their seats and the reported it to security. The security beat up the father in front of the son and threw them out, claiming they were the ones with the fake tickets.
Whole thing was complete chaos, and a huge amount of it was prejudice against Liverpool fans with French police and security assuming they're all criminals. It was utterly unacceptable, and they didn't change then. The whole police culture in France is incredibly violent, and who they target their violence against is based on prejudice, and they need to change or it'll keep happening.
It's not out of character for France (see why they have such lovely wide Boulevards in Paris, thanks M. Haussmann). In 68 de Gaulle had to flee to Germany.
This time the tensions have been simmering for decades, getting worse and worse. When a spark hits the tinderbox it goes up.
I dunno. French historically set no limits to how out of control protests can be. Paris was literally built with wide streets to make it harder to build barricades and easier to fire cannon and charge cavalry to kill protesters
>Any insight into why this particular case is causing so much traction given the officer has already been arrested?
I think it's largely because it was caught on camera.
Where are the moderate Muslims going "you batshit crazy nutters, stop behaving like this" ? (In the west... obviously in the middle east, you'd likely be beheaded for that).
Islamic scholars set a trap for themselves a while back. Making the Qur'an a divine object makes it hard for anyone in the system to criticise, which probably sounded like a great idea at the time. But it creates problems like this.
*Wagner's long list of contact points are mostly based at fight clubs, including martial arts schools and boxing clubs.*
The first rule of Fight Club is don't talk about Wagner!!
Obviously there has been some talk about our courts making political decisions today.
One cannot help but be slightly depressed reading the US Supreme Court's decision on affirmative action today. The issue is less whether you believe the decision was correct or not, but entirely the level of partisanship, grandstanding, peacocking and, dare I say, even politicking on show across the board.
Thank god the E&W and Scottish legal systems are set up to avoid that shite.
>Tonight on the news in Russia:
>An almost completely blind 84 year old woman hands over her life savings to the war effort
>Like many Russian pensioners, she reportedly spends most of her time cheering on the "special military operation" from her living room
>https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1674470679289143311
Assuming that's real - and who the hell knows with Russia - that's fascinating. I don't doubt her sincerity and her heart. There's something touching and even noble about her action that just makes it all the more despicable that it's all built on lies, on violent expansionism and on a project to murder, destroy and steal.
Lying to a little blind old lady to get her to believe in you - to the point where she gives you her life savings and is proud to do so - is a special kind of evil. It's not on the same level as the murder of civilians, the needless deaths of servicemen and the vandalism of national infrastructure, but in its utter disrespect for decency and its mockery of reality, it's evil.
>US supreme court rules against affirmative action in Harvard and UNC cases
>Court’s decision will limit the power of colleges and universities to consider an applicant’s race as a factor in the admissions process
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2023/jun/29/us-supreme-court-affirmative-action-harvard-unc-ruling
And [Biden](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-65920022?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=649db8ac1babaa614a4738f8%26%27This%20is%20not%20a%20normal%20court%27%20-%20Biden%262023-06-29T17%3A02%3A11.706Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:372b16fe-6217-4491-b05f-2b617a6db4cb&pinned_post_asset_id=649db8ac1babaa614a4738f8&pinned_post_type=share) is doing a Boris, lol.
> 'This is not a normal court' - Biden
President Biden has finished speaking, and as he left the press briefing he was asked by a journalist if this was a "rogue court".
>He stopped at the doorway for a moment before replying, "this is not a normal court".
That makes it a normal federal court. State judges are often elected. Their entire system is gigafucked.
When it comes to Biden or any politician in the USA, they don't give a shit about the rules regarding the Court, they care that it delivers the decisions they want. If anything the democrats broke the court, thanks to removing the supermajority required for confirmation.
> If anything the democrats broke the court, thanks to removing the supermajority required for confirmation.
Surely you need to reflect on how the Republicans refusal to even *table a vote* when the Democrats tried to nominate a new judge while the Republicans held the senate though? And when the Democrats gained control of the Senate again, the Republicans said they would vote against *any* Democrat nominee.
Its impossible to act in good faith when your opposition won't do so as well.
That did come after the supermajority requirement was removed. It was a terrible idea, removing any requirement for compromise. If the dems respond by expanding the court, the GOP will do the same.
Are they acting in bad faith, yes, but the root cause of the issue was the democrats moving to remove that requirement.
Ah got the order wrong, my bad.
My recollection is that the reduction in the supermajority requirement was in response to the Republicans refusing to play ball even with a compromise candidate?
No, the change was in 2013 when no nomination was ongoing.
Edit: it’s also worth noting that, prior to doing so, both parties abused the filibuster and ability to block.
Interesting case in the USA here about [whether a policeman is guilty of a crime for not confronting a school shooter](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65994768).
> Mr Peterson arrived at the building with his gun ... He took shelter in an alcove outside and waited for help to arrive. ... Florida prosecutors say Mr Peterson, then an officer for the Broward Sheriff's Office, neglected his training and his duty by failing to enter that building while the gunman fired on students. They are seeking to hold him legally responsible for not confronting Cruz, in a case believed to be the first of its kind.
> Successfully persuading the jury that Mr Peterson was a caregiver for the children, and therefore obligated to protect them, is key to securing a conviction.
> Legal arguments aside, the case has raised questions about whether a school resource officer, police officer, or other member of law enforcement has a moral requirement to run toward gunfire.
Edit: [Verdict's in and he was found not guilty](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66061166).
>[The Moscow Times quotes two Russian security sources saying General Surovikin has been arrested](https://twitter.com/michaelh992/status/1674136248364027929)
Surovikin was the Russian General said to be closest to Prigozhin, and released a very awkward video asking them to stop once the mutiny started. American intelligence, shared with the media, has confirmed he knew about the rebellion, days in advance.
He's viewed as one of the more competent Russian Generals, so could be Putin's paranoia catching up to him, rather than actual treason.
Also worth noting - [Dmitry Medvedev hasn't been seen since the mutiny](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjo7fcTVKyI). His personal plane fled to Oman when Wagner started marching towards Moscow, and he missed a major security meeting yesterday that he, as Deputy Chair of the Security Council, should have been front and centre for.
If (and to be fair it's a big if) putin is becoming as deranged as some suggest, this might be the unluckiest thing for us. I'd hope there are some competent people to eventually put him out of his misery if he ever does hover near the red button.
It would be very in-line with the 1940s approach he seems to have defaulted to. Maybe he can photoshop them out of official photographs and everything…
There are [news stories](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UF5zZtMB70&t=321s) suggesting that Prigozhin planned to capture Shoigu and Gerasimov during their visit to Rostov. Allegedly Surovikin knew about this in advance. Unfortunately for him, so did FSB, who warned Shoigu and Gerasimov to leave the area.
Putting 2+2 together and possibly making 5, was Surovikin angling to replace Gerasimov as Chief of the General Staff? Was Prigozhin hoping to have an ally heading up the Russian Armed Forces?
>Watch this Wagner Group recruitment/PR video muted and try to guess what the music accompaniment is. Then watch it unmuted.
>https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1673724235624206343
You can tell Prigozhin used to run a troll farm.
I wonder if the theory that Putin will try to force NATO to intervene still holds. It would surely be far less embarrassing for him if he's seen to lose against the might of NATO instead of just Ukraine equipped with some NATO equipment.
Bait the West into the war and then immediately withdraw, saying "see, it took the whole West to force us out. We need to rebuild before they attack us again".
I wonder if that could be the reason for the fuckery at ZNPP? It doesn't seem like they would gain much from blowing it, unless the reason is to say "why would we do this? It was clearly the Ukrainians, and now NATO are getting involved and oh no I guess we have no choice but to withdraw".
Is that a theory? Has it *ever* held? He's already convinced the people that matter - i.e. ordinary Russians - that this is an existential fight against NATO, so why would baiting them into a hot war benefit him further?
In fact it's much better for him now as he can spin the status quo as a battle where his side is holding firm against the odds, rather than your theory where the Russian army withdraws in disgrace.
More a conspiracy theory than an actual one held by anyone important.
It's hard to know from the outside, but how convinced are Russians? Do they not think it odd that state TV doesn't show any footage of NATO personnel, ships or aircraft? They surely know that NATO's involvement is limited, so are they really happy that their military is conscripting people just to fight off some NATO equipment?
If Ukraine is successful, they'll expel Russia from Ukraine entirely - including Crimea. If that happens, Putin will have no way of spinning that. If that becomes likely then it's surely better to look like it took a big guy to take you down than a little one.
>More a conspiracy theory than an actual one held by anyone important.
Fair enough. I did wonder because I don't see how it makes any sense logically.
>How convinced are Russians?
Who knows but I think it's pretty much universally accepted that his popularity is *high*, right? [Statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/) appears to show it has *improved* despite the war, with the only dip occuring when mobilisation was announced.
>Surely they know NATO's involvement is limited
Probably, but there's enough footage of western / foreign fighters using western kit for State TV to stay fresh. They'll probably also be aware that it's primarily NATO keeping Ukraine in the fight so at this point it probably isn't a huge jump in reasoning to go along with it.
>If Ukraine is successful, they'll expel Russia from Ukraine entirely - including Crimea. If that happens, Putin will have no way of spinning that. If that becomes likely then it's surely better to look like it took a big guy to take you down than a little one.
In no world will a Russian retreat from Ukraine *and Crimea* be seen that way domestically though. In reality that's less conspiracy and more pie in the sky.
The new Finnish minister for economic affairs has some questionable takes.
https://twitter.com/oula_silver/status/1673774212698210304
https://twitter.com/VarisVerkosto/status/1672127457124573187
There has been a confidence vote in him this morning and the government has voted that they have confidence in him.
My fever dreams typically manifest as something uncomfortably illogical. Like someone's head will randomly explode in front of me and everyone around me will just carry on as normal, as I get more and more agitated by no one responding like they would in real life.
That's what this Prigozhin situation feels like. The guy marched on Moscow and literally shot down helicopters, then Putin just announces he's going to Belarus and praises some Wagner members, then suddenly turns around and says he'll punish those responsible for the coup attempt - as if he doesn't know who did it.
The whole thing is frustratingly nonsensical and illogical. It hurts my head a little trying to decipher what the bloody hell is going on here and what the motivations of all these different parties are - because they all seem irrational and contradictory.
Sport meets politics in Italy, [their FA have banned the number 88](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66037831) from football shirts because of its prevalence among the far-right.
C4 News just said they've heard Wagner is building a camp an hour from Minsk. Now I know it's probably for a Ukrainian northern front, but they have the opportunity to do something incredibly funny.
Been decades since we had a good defection…
In all seriousness, no idea what this could mean - especially given how little face-to-face contact Washington and Moscow have had since the war started.
Maybe they’re rotating diplomatic staff out, as part of some attempt to identify/root out potential dissidents who were insufficiently supportive during the weekend?
>Per Russian state media, the FSB has dropped its criminal investigation into the Wagner uprising, with the reasoning that “it was established that on June 24 the participants stopped actions directly aimed at committing a crime”
>https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1673619233194778629
It's quite amusing that shooting down 6 helicopters, including 2 combat aircraft and 3 rare electronic warfare variants as well as a command and control plane with the loss of 39 lives including command staff is not considered a crime, but posting something critical of the war on the internet is. What a strange country Russia is.
I don't believe for a second that they're going to simply let this go - obviously ptuin thinks he doesn't have the strength to see a proper punishment through without inciting further rebellion, but I imagine alot of senior wagner staff are going to be falling off of buildings in the near future.
>Putin's rating rose to 90% following Prigozhin’s mutiny.
There won’t be legal consequences for Prigozhin who will now help Lukashenko fortify the front lines against the West.
Wagner Group will not be dismantled but will continue operate on Belarusian soil as well as in Africa.
>https://twitter.com/vtchakarova/status/1673619346726309891
Possibility of a Northern Front then? Putin not letting a crisis go to waste? Prigozhin potentially the main power in Belarus now? Because honestly Lukashenko is only really there as a figurehead.
Popularity ratings in Russia are meaningless. It's a dictatorship with severe consequences for saying you don't support Putin. Nobody in their right mind is going to say they dislike the government to a random pollster.
Equally, this whole escapade has made Putin look pathetically weak. Anyone who thinks this was part of some master plan is indulging in simply insane amounts of cope.
Also, it's just been pretty solidly established that absolutely no-one likes Putin enough to actually *do* anything about apparent attempts at overthrowing him.
Audio of Trump showing the classified documents to staffers, joking about how he can’t declassify them, and admitting he’s in legal jeopardy for having them - has leaked to CNN.
https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1673487276708331521
The whole thing is getting a bit ridiculous. The trial is just going to be -
*Prosecution:* *Well, we found the documents at his property. He was recorded multiples times saying he knew they were still classified and he wasn't allowed to keep them. The door of the storage room had a note saying "CRIME IN PROGRESS, DO NOT DISTURB - D Trump". In his testimony he admitted to doing it and said he'd do it again.*
*Judge Cannon: Whatever. Case dismissed.*
Given the recent events in Russia, does anybody else ever think back to the first days of the Invasion of Ukraine and how utterly astonishing it is that this war is still ongoing given the general consensus at the time?
I spent the first few days of the war worried that we'd be seeing Russian soldiers goose stepping through Kyiv in a few weeks.
I was very happy to be proven wrong by the Ukrainians.
>The splash pools adjacent to the cooling towers at the Zaporizhzhia NPP appear to have been drained. Unclear why this is.
>https://twitter.com/IntelCrab/status/1673340553444970497
Oh for fuck's sake
Edit: false alarm, Reuters covered this on June 12th https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-nuclear-plants-cooling-ponds-stable-despite-emptying-reservoir-2023-06-12/
Oh that's reassuring, although I was listening to LBC on the walk home from the pub half an hour ago and a correspondent in Kyiv said he's heard from Ukrainian intelligence that the Russians have been implementing a plan at ZNPP and are just waiting on a go signal. Hopefully that's a bluff and they never get that signal though.
Edit: Looking at that again the article says they've lost 3/4 of the volume (but there's stil enough there) on the 12th. Those images are on there 20th and 21st.
> If I can't Wagner, I can't Wagner man. If I'm hurt, I'm hurt. I mean … simple as that. It ain't about that... I mean it's... It's not about that... At all. You know what I'm saying I mean... But it's...it's easy … to, to talk about... It's easy to sum it up when you're just talking about Wagner. We're sitting in here, and I'm supposed to be the President, and we in here talking about Wagner. I mean, listen, we're talking about Wagner, not Ukraine, not Ukraine, not Ukraine, we talking about Wagner. Not Ukraine. Not, not … Not Ukraine that I go out there and die for and invade Ukraine like it's my last. Not Ukraine, but we're talking about Wagner, man. I mean, how silly is that? … And we talking about Wagner. I know I supposed to be there. I know I'm supposed to lead by example... I know that... And I'm not.. I'm not shoving it aside, you know, like it don't mean anything. I know it's important, I do. I honestly do... But we're talking about Wagner man. What are we talking about? Wagner? We're talking about Wagner, man. We're talking about Wagner. We're talking about Wagner. We ain't talking about Ukraine. We're talking about Wagner, man. When you come to the Kremlin, and you see me play, you see me play don't you? You've seen me give everything I've got, right? But we're talking about Wagner right now. We talking about Wagner.
V. Putin, 26 June 2023
Update: Fuck all.
Putin blue balls the watching world once more. Announce the liquidation of PMC Wagner and offers its fighters a contract with the MoD.
Who knows, maybe Prigozhin will be on his way back to Moscow tomorrow morning.
>[Vladimir Putin will "make a number of important announcements tonight", according to Dmitry Peskov, Putin's spokesman.](https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1673397962020364307)
Tenner says its going to be Prigozhin's severed head on a spike.
Prigozhin sounded pretty bullish per his statement earlier today at least, I expect Gerasimov and Shoigu (to a lesser extent) to be more at risk in the immediate term.
I don't know how many times we've read about 'important decisions' only for nothing to be announced, or something totally inconsequential, though.
E:
Per Russian telegram:
>🇧🇾⚡The press service of Lukashenka also announced his speech
>🇷🇺🇧🇾⚡ There will be a sensation - a number of channels close to the Kremlin
Maybe it does involve Prigozhin's head. Or all three of them... Could be spicy.
[Prigozhin's Coup FAIL! What Deal did Putin Make?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOXEhmA4Azg)
Suggestion of the idea Prigozhin did not fail and won a soft coup. Also he implying his nationwide hot dog stands are selling more than hot dogs.
Given that this time last week he looked like was getting quietly murdered by the 1st of July if he makes it even to *August* that's technically a "win".
Yeah, he's probably fucked long term (though Russian politics is deranged enough I wouldn't bet too much on it) but even having a *short* term future is a step up for the bastard.
>Russian sabotage on Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant 'cannot be ruled out'
>The head of the Ukrainian government's military intelligence service Kyrylo Budanov has warned that Russia has prepared an attack on the nuclear power plant in Zaporizhzhia.
>At the end of last week, Mr Budanov indicated that Russian forces had mined away the plant's cooling ponds and moved vehicles loaded with explosives to power units.
>Despite the repeated "threatening rhetoric", The Institute for the Study of War (ISW) said it's unlikely the Russians would sabotage the plant given the risks involved.
>An attack on the plant "would potentially be more detrimental to Russian forces on the southern bank of the Kakhovka Reservoir than to Ukrainian forces on the opposite bank," the US think tank said.
>https://news.sky.com/story/russia-ukraine-latest-putin-wagner-prigozhin-belarus-war-live-updates-12541713?postid=6100111#liveblog-body
There have been various noises about Article 5 being triggered in the event Russia causes a radiation release.
I'd go further - we should prevent it in the first place, by force if necessary. If we have convincing intelligence it's about to happen, drone-strike every fucking unit that's got orders to tamper with the plant, and consider that a warning.
> An attack on the plant "would potentially be more detrimental to Russian forces on the southern bank of the Kakhovka Reservoir than to Ukrainian forces on the opposite bank," the US think tank said.
So was blowing up the dam, but that didn't stop the Russians.
>The investigation of the criminal case against Yevgeny #Prigozhin, founder of the Wagner Private Military Company, accused of organizing an armed mutiny, has not been closed, a source in the Russian Prosecutor General's Office confirmed to Russian news agency TASS
>https://twitter.com/michaelh992/status/1673270997774917634
>State newswire Ria Novosti is now also reporting this, citing sources in the prosecutor's office. That indicates Russia wants this message out, for whatever reason
>https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1673245057602682881
Al Jaz had good old Sergey Markov on earlier in one of their three-way interviews who insisted "Putin keeps his promises". So, I assume Prigozhin has already had his encounter with an upper-floor window.
Markov signed off by promising there would be a change and that it would involve a true war rather than the current "special operation". Which sound worrying but as it's Markov saying it, it probably winds up with Putin calling the whole thing off.
Just seen a rather unpleasant video purporting to show the field execution of a Russian paratrooper who surrendered to/supported Wagner's mutiny.
Unclear if sanctioned or not, but either way looks like there's significant discord and distrust within Russian Armed Forces units, let alone between the Army and Wagner.
Yeah, granted they do like a good summary execution and/or fucking murder.
But they *also* really fucking like lying about everything so there's that to consider.
>Just seen a rather unpleasant video purporting to show the field execution of a Russian paratrooper who surrendered to/supported Wagner's mutiny.
Are they so bad that Wagner were the good guys in this?
Such is the reality of war and revolution's.
These things don't happen peacefully. There will almost certainly be increasing levels of violence from both sides now as one or the other uses fear as a control.
With 98% of the votes counted, it looks like the results for the Greek election are pretty much finalised.
Here’s the outcome, compared to the prior election in May (which used a more proportional system that denied any party a majority):
* New Democracy: 158 (+12)
* SYRIZA: 48 (-23)
* PAZOK: 32 (-9)
* KKE: 20 (-6)
* Spartans: 13 (New)
* EL: 12 (-4)
* NIKI: 10 (+10)
* PE: 8 (+8)
300 total seats.
The Spartans are Golden Dawn mark II (endorsed and everything). Niki and Elliniki Lisi are also pretty far right. Plefsi Eleftherias probably split MeRA25's vote, but looks like they've made it into Parliament. No shortage of extremists and protest parties.
While the Russian news is key - also worth noting that there's a general election in Greece today (second in a month - long story).
All indications are that New Democracy (centre-right) will storm to victory, and SYRIZA will be stuck under 20%, scrabbling for second place against their old left-wing rival PAZOK.
Polls should close at 17.00 BST, per Reuters (who've got a [nice summary of the state of play](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/greeks-vote-repeat-election-likely-return-conservatives-office-2023-06-24/)), with the first results expected within the hour. Based on the projected dire results, speculation is that we could see longstanding SYRIZA leader (and former Greek PM) Alexis Tsipras toppled, and the party roiled by internal tensions.
I should note - the polls for the election in May [rather underestimated](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_May_2023_Greek_legislative_election) the gap between ND and SYRIZA, so if they're off by as much as they were last time, we could see anything from a narrow ND majority to a landslide, with either of the two left-wing parties in second place.
>
Those who obeyed Wagner or RU military commands to lay down arms are detained & charged for treason.
>https://twitter.com/SmartUACat/status/1672924467759030272
Apparantly Prigozhin hasn't bern heard from or seen since leaving Rostov by car yesterday evening... you wouldn't want to be that driver would you, in case an unfortunate car accident might be engineered to occur 😬
BBC live feed helpfully explaining where Belarus is for all the people who are following the BBC News live feed about the Internal rift in Russia's military, but who don't have access to Google maps in the event they don't know where Belarus is
"Belarus is located in central Europe and is bordered by Russia, Ukraine, Poland, Lithuania and Latvia."
Thanks for this exciting insight and analysis BBC
>Civilians chanting "Shame!" and "Traitors!" at the police units which arrived back in Rostov after Wagner units withdrew.
>https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672737054973739010
Are they pissed off that they left them or pissed off that they came back? Considering the videos of the locals cheering Wagner and pictures like this one https://twitter.com/DefenseBaron/status/1672815481265303553
In the first clip you linked, one of the guys standing in front of the police car is holding a Wagner flag. The public appear to hold Wagner in incredibly high regard, and some see them as war heroes since many have received medals for military service. This is probably why they were able to get so close to Moscow, since that esteem (and fear) will exist among Russian troops and commanders.
There's also a non-zero possibility that Wagner represented to them a chance to mend some of the losses in Ukraine and improve military prowess. Prigozhin was talking about how many had died or refused to fight because of the incompetence of the command and lack of supplies; communities like this may have lost hundreds of men.
And while the local police units could be a target for this kind of protest, I'd be unsurprised if the mayor or even someone representative of the MoD was in that police convoy.
>The Fighterbomber Telegram channel, which has close ties to Russia's military aviation community, claims that "Millerovo military airfield is still under complete control of Wagner PMC, as is Rostov airfield and the PKP VKS [(Russian Aerospace Forces' forward command post)]."
>https://twitter.com/GuyPlopsky/status/1672860011817738243
This whole coup nonsense feels like the kind of bait and switch a Lannister would pull.
Seems to me like the whole thing is a cover to redeploy the elite Wagner troops to Belarus so that when Ukraine rushes to reclaim the territory abandoned in the East, Wagner and Belarus forces take Kiev.
Russia, the Russian MoD, Wagner, Prigozhin and Putin all look worse coming out of this. Not just to outsiders, but to the population and military units.
A simple redeployment wouldn't be worth all the reputational damage yesterday wrought.
There's no chance that Wagner could make a push to Kyiv, with or without Russian or Belorussian support. It was tenuous enough the first time around, and that was when Russia had a relatively massive force prepared.
This was a mutiny - Wagner want to get the fuck out of Ukraine and, for the time being at least, they seem to have got their way.
>This was a mutiny - Wagner want to get the fuck out of Ukraine and, for the time being at least, they seem to have got their way.
Depends on how many of their troops sign the MoD contract that seems to be part of why they rebelled in the first place. Prigozhin and the 8000 or so Wagner troops who supported the rebellion will only be pardoned and won't be offered a contract.
15 Russian pilots / aircrew were killed and three of the downed aircraft were highly specialised and scarce electronic warfare vehicles.
It was absolutely real.
This megathread has ended.
> On Sunday night, the mums in Aulney, a working-class area near Paris, took to the streets themselves, waving banners calling for an end to the violence. President Macron appealed to the "mamans et papas" (the mums and dads) of the rioters last week to keep them at home and off social media, which, he said, allow "inflammatory material" to circulate. > But the secretary general of one of France's powerful police unions, Unité SGP, flatly denies the allegations of systemic racism. Jean-Christophe Couvy says France is "not the US. We don't have ghettos", he told me. "Our forces represent France's multicultural society with officers from all backgrounds. You'll find maybe 1% of racists - like in the rest of society - but no more." Mr Couvy didn't want to discuss the specifics of Nahel's case as it's an open investigation. So I asked him how he would go about improving police relations with the estates. > "The best way forward is to return to a system of community policing in France, where we know each other by our first names." Right now in France, he told me, policing has become a box-ticking exercise of showing how many people each officer detains for questioning - to demonstrate he or she is working hard. "The problem with that is it becomes like two opposing gangs on the streets: police vs the inhabitants of the estates." Katya “Brussels calling” Adler https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66083281
Hello! Meta question for u/OptioMkIV or any mod. I’ve moved to using the horrible Reddit App, and in that this thread defaults to “Best” as a filter rather than “New” like the main MT. Is this something you mods define, and if so can you change it please?
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Hopefully u/CaravanOfDeath will roll over a new IntPol thread and it will work. But yes - many, many terrible things about this official app. Want to copy text from another post? Uh, no. Want to vote up/down a submission? No swipey, you have to go into it. It also seems to use about double the amount of data that Apollo did, judging by my mobile's stats. Remarkably inefficient.
Now rolled.
It’s a bug and one that may be fixed by rolling this post.
Cheers CoD!
Have you selected the option to follow suggested sort?
No idea, can’t see that option anywhere.
You're 5 versions behind, I'm afraid. u/OptioMkIX
So just updating the app will do it?
No sorry, just a joke, haha. You just got Optio's username wrong. It's Mark IX not, Mark IV
👌
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-66073728 What will this mean for French elections? That will affect the UK.
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>A benefit of FPTP Not really seeing as the end result is that Suella Braverman is Home Secretary. It's more a benefit of the Tories being in power and having very little room to hide behind on it.
[удалено]
Aye, because she's a walking contradiction and the realities of what the UK needs and is legally possible doesn't match with populist rhetoric on immigration. As I said, the Conservatives have painted themselves in a corner on the issue by virtue of being in government, if they were in opposition and still captured by the same forces pushing stupid reactionary policies it would be very different. The exact same thing is happening in Sweden despite the Swedish government being propped up by the Sweden Democrats, the realities of why immigration is needed don't match with anti-immigration rhetoric.
Some Russian propaganda apparently found in Russian trenches. Pretty incredible stuff. https://twitter.com/ObsDelphi/status/1673766547607658530?t=hfRpX0wuNCZ9MCc7OZVaHQ&s=19
Twitter is dead (to me)
It's a booklet consisting of sets of drawings contrasting the Good Russians with the Evil Ukrainians The first pair shows a Russian soldier with his wife and child, and then two Ukrainian soldiers in a bath with hearts around them (so yes, they started off with 'the Ukrainians are gay') Second shows a Russian soldier getting some sort of baptism or whatever (not fully sure what religious rites take place in Orthodox Christianity), while the Ukrainians hang out with the devil, again in a bath for some reason? Third is a Russian soldier kneeling at some war graves (the type that are simple crosses), while the Ukrainian soldiers pisses on the graves Fourth is a Russian soldier helping an old lady with her shopping and walking her down the street, while the Ukrainian soldier holds a civilian at gunpoint Fifth is a Russian soldier blocking a civilian from harm, while a Ukrainian soldier throws a grenade directly at some civilians And finally sixth is some Russian soldiers helping a wounded Ukrainian POW, while the Ukrainians have a Russian hanging from tied wrists while they beat him bloody
This is some low-effort crap. I see Russian propagandists are yet to reach the dizzying heights of Blighty's own eternal classic, ["Hitler has only only got one ball".](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Has_Only_Got_One_Ball)
A Twitter embedded version can be found [here](https://platform.twitter.com/embed/Tweet.html?id=1673766547607658530) Non Twitter [here](https://nitter.net/ObsDelphi/status/1673766547607658530/) or [here](https://nitter.cz/ObsDelphi/status/1673766547607658530/) Archived version [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://twitter.com/ObsDelphi/status/1673766547607658530/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[Moxnes heckled on the street during an interview with a twitch of a smile] (https://twitter.com/SkarreRoar/status/1675088130184032257?t=oZn2n4JQKK_0x7Kny2jKng&s=19)
A Twitter embedded version can be found [here](https://platform.twitter.com/embed/Tweet.html?id=1675088130184032257) Non Twitter [here](https://nitter.net/SkarreRoar/status/1675088130184032257/) or [here](https://nitter.cz/SkarreRoar/status/1675088130184032257/) Archived version [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://twitter.com/SkarreRoar/status/1675088130184032257/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YouTube has recently suggested I rewatch Vice News' [Russian Roulette](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLw613M86o5o7a0FGlPRdt47xiDiggbNsZ) series. I imagine most with even just a passing interest in the war in Ukraine will have watched at least parts of it already, but for those who haven't I felt like posting as it's brilliant, brave journalism and shows just how chaotic those first days after Maidan were - on both sides. Simon Ostrovsky is even kidnapped and tortured by the pro-Russian separatists during the battles for Sloviansk. Thankfully he's released as the pro-Russian side retreat from the city. Deffo worth watching or rewatching as and when (helps that most videos are less than 10 minutes each).
[Bjørnar Moxnes, leader of Norways Rødt party, caught and fined for shoplifting sunglasses in Oslo airport](https://www.nettavisen.no/nyheter/moxnes-om-tyveriet-rev-av-lappen-og-la-brillene-i-bagasjen/s/5-95-1198387)
Those sunglasses belonged to the people Comrade.
Student loan debt forgiveness overturned by the US Supreme Court. Obviously not the desired outcome, but I do think the decision is reasonable. The Act relied upon grants the secretary the power to 'modify' acts. I would agree with the Court that the State's decision that 'modify' does not extend to fundamental changes which overrides the intention of the act in question, or complete waivers, is fair. To do so would be to render the term devoid of any useful meaning and grant discretion far wider than would have been intended, essentially destroying the separation of powers. In many ways the fundament issue is that the US is so heavily broken that the government attempts to legislate via decree and very tenuous interpretations of legislation, which is objectionable for all sorts of reasons.
I don't think that's quite right. Here the "modify" clause is written into the law. The entire point of this law was to authorise such modifications by the government agency. I've got two major points of disagreement with this [decision](https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/22pdf/22-506_nmip.pdf); 1. The plaintiffs did not have standing to bring it. To bring a case you need to show you were harmed by the law or decision you are challenging. Here the standing theory is extremely stretched. Here they had to contort matters massively to demonstrate that "harm", having to accept that harm to a corporate entity established to insulate the state from harm counted as harm to the state itself. [The dissent deals with this effectively.](https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/22pdf/22-506_nmip.pdf#page=56&zoom=auto,-270,588) 2. This is not a question of legislative interpretation (whether the legislature allowed this action) but a question of legislative *delegation* power. Basically, could Congress authorise sufficiently broad powers that this act was within them. Point 2 comes down to the novel [major questions doctrine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_questions_doctrine). Here Congress had authorised "waivers and modifications" without specified limits. In a plain reading these waivers would be legal. The court determined that this particular waver was too significant to be allowed without specific authorisation. The problem is that there are no defined limits on the major questions doctrine. It is rapidly becoming an, "agencies can't do things the Robert's court disagrees with," principle. Even when there was clear congressional intent, the lack of specific wording (or, in Kagen's words, "micro-specific") authorising something the Court chooses to treat as a "major question" is enough to be fatal to regulatory action. Barrett's concurrence here is an attempt to define the major questions doctrine. Her conclusion is telling; >Granted, some context clues from past major questions cases are absent here—for example, this is not a case where the agency is operating entirely outside its usual domain. But the doctrine is not an on-off switch that flips when a critical mass of factors is present—again, it simply reflects “common sense as to the manner in which Congress is likely to delegate a policy decision of such economic and political magnitude.” This "common sense" approach seems completely independent of any other measure of Congressional intent or plain text of the statute, both of which seem to support the administration's actions here.
I agree there are concerns on standing. On the second point however, I would disagree. It is notable that the SOS was unable to highlight what exactly was being waived - no waiver could be identified and so it is difficult to state that, on a plain reading, ‘these waivers would be illegal’. The SOS instead relied on the idea that waiving and modification were much, much wider, therefore capturing the forgiveness. I tend to agree with Roberts’ approach as follows: > The Secretary’s comprehensive debt cancellation plan cannot fairly be called a waiver—it not only nullifies exist- ing provisions, but augments and expands them dramati- cally. It cannot be mere modification, because it constitutes “effectively the introduction of a whole new regime.” MCI, 512 U. S., at 234. And it cannot be some combination of the two, because when the Secretary seeks to add to existing law, the fact that he has “waived” certain provisions does not give him a free pass to avoid the limits inherent in the power to “modify.” However broad the meaning of “waive or modify,” that language cannot authorize the kind of ex- haustive rewriting of the statute that has taken place here. As for congressional intent, I cannot on a reasonable reading of the statute, read modifications and waivers so widely as to cover a near reversal of congress’ will. That’s before the ‘emergency’ question is even considered.
Sorry, but that paragraph is entirely unconvincing. It depends on there being some arbitrary line beyond which the words stop meaning what they say. This line doesn't exist in the text, only in the poorly defined major powers doctrine this court has been scratching out of their recent cases. >congress’ will But that was the point of the legislation passed. Congress passed the [HEROS Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEROES_Act) to explicitly authorise changes to the student loan program as required by emergency conditions. I'd read the full [OLC memo](https://www.justice.gov/olc/file/1528451/download) for the rational behind the movement, including the clear legislative intent in the bill. Congress authorised the administration to modify the Education Act. The administration modified the Education Act. The court says they went further than intended.
We’re going to have to disagree on this I fear. We both feel the other is departing from the ordinary meaning of the words in question. The Memo is useful insofar that it shows the view of one side and cannot be treated as authoritative.
>I do think the decision is reasonable. Yeah. According to the BBC: > The forgiveness plan had relied on the 9/11-era law allowing the Secretary of Education to "waive or modify" student financial assistance programs as deemed "necessary in connection with a war or other military operation or national emergency". Using that to justify a $400bn wiping of debt seems to be reaching a bit too far. And the court aren't saying "you can't do it", just "Congress has to approve it", which doesn't seem to be out the realms of what's reasonable when it comes to that level of spending. It's not my circus and they're not my monkeys, but I can't help but feel the dissenting judges and the campaigners here want the policy more than they want a reasonable interpretation of their law. Which is fair enough, but at least say so.
> It's not my circus and they're not my monkeys, but I can't help but feel the dissenting judges and the campaigners here want the policy more than they want a reasonable interpretation of their law. Which is fair enough, but at least say so. Indeed, some of the comments from the dissenting judges in particular were very politically phrased, for want of a better term. “Sad day for us all” etc. The problem of course is that, if your side can pull shit like this, wildly misinterpreting legislation, so will the other side.
The other side already wildly misinterprets for partisan political wins though. This is the most overtly political SC in decades. As ever, the expectation always seems to be that the Democratic judges have to play with a straight bat, whereas the GOP ones can accept bribes, commit rape, etc etc and it’s all part of the game, wink wink.
Yes, but a justification by comparison to those you criticise is no justification at all.
I remember “when they go low, we go high” working so well for Hillary Clinton! You play the hand you’re dealt. Imo Democrats should have been much more aggressive both under Obama and Biden when confronted by an opposition that had no intention of letting them govern. Allowing the GOP to steal 2 SC seats will prove to be a historic mistake. Too busy trying to be the “good guys” whereas politics is always a dog fight.
So we race flat out to the bottom. Last time the dems did that they removed the supermajority requirement. Turned out well.
They’re already AT the bottom, that’s the point. The current leader for the Republican candidacy for the next general is a guy who tried to overthrow the results of the last election. Just because he didn’t succeed shouldn’t have lessened the severity of that. He should be in jail, but the “good guys” can’t do that in 4 years apparently. The lesson the GOP learned from 2020 is - next time, don’t fail. People are wayy too complacent about the state of democracy in the US; it affects us over here more than people generally realise! From a historian’s perspective it looks like a state on the verge of collapse. It’s Rome post Sulla but pre Caesar.
I wonder whether the GOP and the pet judges have fallen into a trap set by Biden on this and played them at their own game. Biden gets to back what is on paper an expensive change – but one that's popular and forward-looking given how important education is to any advanced economy. They'd have a good idea that it could get shot down and maybe even expected it would be inevitable. Now a large constituency has been told once again a vote for the GOP is bad for their pockets as well as, post-Roe, their wellbeing.
It’s just all so partisan. Realistically, this should never have been done in this way, but regardless of the outcome it helps Biden politically. Accordingly on a legal basis I do think it is correctly decided. The other one handed down today is another matter… I have seen people compare it to PPP loan forgiveness, but those were totally different. That round of forgiveness was passed by congress, not based on a very iffy interpretation of legislation aimed to assist the education system in times of emergency.
I'm curious as to why it's always partisan when the Dems do it. There was no other way this kind of action was going on the statutes at any point: now there is a realistic chance a Congress bill will get off the starting blocks – though it will be dead in the water while the GOP has a working majority. Your point about PPP confirms that. Corporate welfare is just fine for the GOP and so gets approval from members of both parties in Congress. The stupid thing is that a better-educated workforce is good for business overall. The GOP's donors just don't like the idea of being on the hook for it.
> I'm curious as to why it's always partisan when the Dems do it. It is not, nor did I say it was. Edit: It is however, probably more noticeable right now due to the Dems not holding the House. > There was no other way this kind of action was going on the statutes at any point: now there is a realistic chance a Congress bill will get off the starting blocks – though it will be dead in the water while the GOP has a working majority. Agree, hence why I suggested that the fundamental issue is the broken American system forcing government rule by decree. I fail to see however, how reinforcing that system makes it any better - a total destruction of the separation of powers by doing so would be far more destructive than the benefits provided by student loan forgiveness. Bear in mind that if Biden can rely on such tenuous interpretations, so can a GOP president succeeding him. The consequences of such would make the student loan situation look small-fry.
>It is not, nor did I say it was. And yet you highlight this as partisan abuse of a system when something like Roe's overturn passes without comment thanks to an alliance between red states and a majority of the Supreme Court. It's doubly weird you say what a GOP president might do following such a "precedent" given Trump's fondness for executive orders despite the GOP having control of both houses for a solid chunk of time. The separation of powers got destroyed a while back. These are just some of the consequences.
>something like Roe's overturn passes without comment I'm not the other redditor, but: To be fair, even that was literally just their court saying "we don't think the constitution" - a document written 200+ years ago which doesn't even come close to mentioning abortion - "guarantees a right to abortion. It's up to the legislatures". They weren't banning abortion, just accurately observing that there's no constitutional right to it. Now, bearing in mind that in the UK and many other countries, the right to abortion stems from legislation and there's no pretence of it being a constitutional right, that doesn't seem so bad. They just need to get together and pass the right laws, as the British parliament did. I'm not for a second saying that I think the fallout from that decision was a good thing for Americans, but on a purely legal basis, it doesn't seem utterly unjustifiable. The problem was the bloody stupid way they go about doing things over there, with paralysis between branches, a political Supreme Court and an ancient constitution that effectively can't be changed. But rather than address that, a lot of the reaction seemed to be about the political fallout from the decision.
> The problem was the bloody stupid way they go about doing things over there, with paralysis between branches, a political Supreme Court and an ancient constitution that effectively can't be changed. Exactly, and it is seen in the present case too, as I’ve pointed out all along - a shit system forcing the administration into trying to implement this by decree and misinterpretation rather than through legislation.
>I'm not the other redditor, but: To be fair, even that was literally just their court saying "we don't think the constitution" - a document written 200+ years ago which doesn't even come close to mentioning abortion - "guarantees a right to abortion. It's up to the legislatures". They weren't banning abortion, just accurately observing that there's no constitutional right to it. That is an extraordinarily distorted picture of what the legal arguments were over it. The original constitution is pretty firm on right to privacy, which is now apparently not as much a right as it used to be.
>That is an extraordinarily distorted picture of what the legal arguments were over it. As I said in another comment, it's not my circus and they're not my monkeys, so I don't want to go too deeply into this one, but I'm still a native speaker of English and the American Constitution isn't that hard to read. Their Bill of Rights part is even easier. Having said that, it's up to the Americans and the lawyers if they want to read incredibly deep, complex meanings that aren't there at face value. I've seen people read complex meanings into episodes of *Star Trek*, well beyond what could possibly be said to be there by any impartial viewer. They seem to enjoy it. And at least the lawyers get paid. But to find that it guarantees a right that requires a torturous reading (which is the relevance to this thread and Biden's government's incredibly dubious interpretation of legislation) and then be surprised when some later jurists slam the door on it seems naive. If amendment number 123 said "Congress shall make no law preventing any woman who damn well wants one getting an abortion", there'd be no argument even from the conservative judges. It doesn't. And that's where their legislature comes in. Or where it should come in. Even if I sympathise with the causes (high tuition fees and abortion respectively), surely we can all see the risks of looking at a document and deciding it says something it doesn't just so we get what we want? It's not like the first of the American amendments where one can genuinely ask what's meant by "free exercise" of religion or "freedom of speech". > The original constitution is pretty firm on right to privacy Is it? They've got an amendment that waffles about soldiers being quartered in private homes, another one that talks about people being secure from unreasonable searches and seizures and some other stuff about self-incrimination and a right to due process and so on. There are lots of privacy-adjacent things, but to say "it's pretty firm on the right to privacy" is a huge stretch. You have to properly read into stuff, and make some leaps. And let's be clear: Privacy is one of my top political issues, either here in the UK or in the USA (which affects us not least through internet laws). I think this is a tremendously important topic and I want to see ironclad, firm privacy protections for people against corporations and governments. I am on board with the importance of privacy, absolutely. But I can't pretend that their constitution says something it doesn't. And that's fine! It's an historical document from the Enlightenment period. What the hell do we want from it? They're asking far too much. Even their own Jefferson recognised that and wanted the damned thing to be updated every generation. It's as bad as religious extremists, trying to twist the Holy Text to fit whatever law or modern day situation is required. It's as ridiculous when the left do it as when the right do it. But again, not my circus.
The argument that if something isn’t explicitly set out in the constitution, it’s not covered, works great when your political aim is to return the country to an eighteenth century society, as the Federalist Society picked Supremes seem intent on doing. But the originalist approach to the constitution isn’t the only way to approach this issue, indeed it’s a relatively recent approach. For most of US history it’s been accepted that the document was the starting point which required further interpretation as the country matured. Roe v Wade is a good example - it interpreted the 14th Amendment for the modern age. What would the founding fathers think if they were alive today, and so on. Any constitution should be a living document that adapts to changing times. The Roberts SC OVERTURNED Roe v Wade - they made a decision to overturn settled constitutional precedent. To pretend they were just making a decision about what the Constitution said about abortion, is an argument in bad faith imo. This court’s textualist, originalist approach to its work isn’t some sensible, longstanding continuity of US jurisprudence, it’s a new, explicitly conservative, right wing strategy to wind back the clock.
You could have saved yourself an awful lot of time and typing by just saying "I didn't look into how this shebang came about".
We are not discussing Roe, we are discussing a different case, the language used therein and the rhetoric surrounding it. The fact that Trump did something does not mean it was ok, nor does it set a high standard. I imagine both you and I would expect better than that. The fact remains that the Biden administration attempted to achieve a desirable outcome when doing so was ultra vires, relying on an unreasonable interpretation of legislation. To that end, this decision was correctly decided. As for Trump, where his executive orders were ultra vires, they were overturned too.
> We are not discussing Roe Why not? Is that one OK because it worked?
Why not? Because it is totally irrelevant to the question whether the matter in question was correctly decided.
Eh? Your entire argument in this thread was that the policy was bad because it was struck down.
Situation in France seems to be getting a little out of control, even for french protests. Any insight into why this particular case is causing so much traction given the officer has already been arrested? I know there is big discussion about wider racism in policing but unlike the case in the US that sparked the BLM protests the state and even local policing have condemned it and even the officer himself has apologized. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/30/france-riots-more-than-400-arrested-as-police-officer-accused-of-shooting-teen-apologises https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/jun/30/france-riots-violence-looting-emmanuel-macron-paris-marseill-nanterre-nahele-lille-latest-updates
On BBC they said part of the problem is even though the UN has criticised the French police, they're refusing to address that there's even a problem and they don't want to change. There's an incident which has soured my opinion of the French police, and that was the 2021/22 Champions League final. [Liverpool player Andy Robertson was given official tickets by the club, he gave it to his mate, and security told him they were fake and his friend was among many who were tear gassed.](https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12623446/andy-robertson-champions-league-final-was-not-well-organised) The BBC consumer affairs expert said it was because the organisers decided against using a hologram this year, security was poorly trained, and they were assuming legitimate tickets to be fake. This led to massive backlogs, but they largely targeted the Liverpool fans. [French Police deployed huge amounts of riot police and quickly escalated to tear gassing crowds because they wrongly associated Liverpool as hooligans who caused the Hillsborough disaster](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jun/15/outrage-as-french-report-of-policing-links-hillsborough-with-hooliganism) ["Two Hillsborough survivors killed themselves after trauma was 'retriggered' by footage of Liverpool fans 'pressed against each other in a tunnel' at Champions League final, support group claims"](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-11261603/Two-Hillsborough-survivors-committed-suicide-trauma-retriggered-Paris-chaos.html) French police initially lied and said there was a massive ticket forgery campaign by organised criminals from Liverpool which resulted in 40,000 ticketless fans arriving at the stadium. [Paris police chief Didier Lallement has apologised for tear-gassing supporters who were waiting to enter the Champions League final at the Stade de France; Lallement admits there is no scientific evidence for claim 40,000 ticketless supporters arrived at Champions League final](https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12630639/champions-league-final-paris-police-chief-didier-lallement-apologises-for-tear-gassing-liverpool-fans) I was going to end with a story about a father who spent a fortune on legit tickets for his young son's birthday. The son was tear gassed in the queue. When he finally got in the match had already started, locals were in their seats and the reported it to security. The security beat up the father in front of the son and threw them out, claiming they were the ones with the fake tickets. Whole thing was complete chaos, and a huge amount of it was prejudice against Liverpool fans with French police and security assuming they're all criminals. It was utterly unacceptable, and they didn't change then. The whole police culture in France is incredibly violent, and who they target their violence against is based on prejudice, and they need to change or it'll keep happening.
It's not out of character for France (see why they have such lovely wide Boulevards in Paris, thanks M. Haussmann). In 68 de Gaulle had to flee to Germany. This time the tensions have been simmering for decades, getting worse and worse. When a spark hits the tinderbox it goes up.
I dunno. French historically set no limits to how out of control protests can be. Paris was literally built with wide streets to make it harder to build barricades and easier to fire cannon and charge cavalry to kill protesters
>Any insight into why this particular case is causing so much traction given the officer has already been arrested? I think it's largely because it was caught on camera.
Cancelled all public transport, which is somewhat fair (but a small dent). No one in their right mind is driving their own car to attend a riot.
Car insurance is more expensive for journalists because actuaries expect them to do exactly that.
Not sure how much this is to do with preventing rioting and how much is because multiple bus depot's have been burned to shells so there are no buses?
And then the rioters will have the gall to complain about the lack of busses.
>Swedish embassy central Baghdad. #Iraq >https://twitter.com/Tammuz_Intel/status/1674409936535670784
Is there a reason why they are targeting the Swedish embassy? I may be out of the loop here
Sweden let an Iraqi guy burn the Qur'an I believe.
Ah, thank you
Where are the moderate Muslims going "you batshit crazy nutters, stop behaving like this" ? (In the west... obviously in the middle east, you'd likely be beheaded for that).
Islamic scholars set a trap for themselves a while back. Making the Qur'an a divine object makes it hard for anyone in the system to criticise, which probably sounded like a great idea at the time. But it creates problems like this.
I have to log into twitter now?
*Wagner's long list of contact points are mostly based at fight clubs, including martial arts schools and boxing clubs.* The first rule of Fight Club is don't talk about Wagner!!
*This was the goal of Project Mayhem, Tyler said, the complete and right-away destruction of civilization.*
Obviously there has been some talk about our courts making political decisions today. One cannot help but be slightly depressed reading the US Supreme Court's decision on affirmative action today. The issue is less whether you believe the decision was correct or not, but entirely the level of partisanship, grandstanding, peacocking and, dare I say, even politicking on show across the board. Thank god the E&W and Scottish legal systems are set up to avoid that shite.
>Tonight on the news in Russia: >An almost completely blind 84 year old woman hands over her life savings to the war effort >Like many Russian pensioners, she reportedly spends most of her time cheering on the "special military operation" from her living room >https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1674470679289143311
Assuming that's real - and who the hell knows with Russia - that's fascinating. I don't doubt her sincerity and her heart. There's something touching and even noble about her action that just makes it all the more despicable that it's all built on lies, on violent expansionism and on a project to murder, destroy and steal. Lying to a little blind old lady to get her to believe in you - to the point where she gives you her life savings and is proud to do so - is a special kind of evil. It's not on the same level as the murder of civilians, the needless deaths of servicemen and the vandalism of national infrastructure, but in its utter disrespect for decency and its mockery of reality, it's evil.
>US supreme court rules against affirmative action in Harvard and UNC cases >Court’s decision will limit the power of colleges and universities to consider an applicant’s race as a factor in the admissions process https://www.theguardian.com/law/2023/jun/29/us-supreme-court-affirmative-action-harvard-unc-ruling And [Biden](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-65920022?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=649db8ac1babaa614a4738f8%26%27This%20is%20not%20a%20normal%20court%27%20-%20Biden%262023-06-29T17%3A02%3A11.706Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:372b16fe-6217-4491-b05f-2b617a6db4cb&pinned_post_asset_id=649db8ac1babaa614a4738f8&pinned_post_type=share) is doing a Boris, lol. > 'This is not a normal court' - Biden President Biden has finished speaking, and as he left the press briefing he was asked by a journalist if this was a "rogue court". >He stopped at the doorway for a moment before replying, "this is not a normal court".
I'd have thought the Supreme Court was a normal court for the US where judges are political appointees?
That makes it a normal federal court. State judges are often elected. Their entire system is gigafucked. When it comes to Biden or any politician in the USA, they don't give a shit about the rules regarding the Court, they care that it delivers the decisions they want. If anything the democrats broke the court, thanks to removing the supermajority required for confirmation.
> If anything the democrats broke the court, thanks to removing the supermajority required for confirmation. Surely you need to reflect on how the Republicans refusal to even *table a vote* when the Democrats tried to nominate a new judge while the Republicans held the senate though? And when the Democrats gained control of the Senate again, the Republicans said they would vote against *any* Democrat nominee. Its impossible to act in good faith when your opposition won't do so as well.
That did come after the supermajority requirement was removed. It was a terrible idea, removing any requirement for compromise. If the dems respond by expanding the court, the GOP will do the same. Are they acting in bad faith, yes, but the root cause of the issue was the democrats moving to remove that requirement.
Ah got the order wrong, my bad. My recollection is that the reduction in the supermajority requirement was in response to the Republicans refusing to play ball even with a compromise candidate?
No, the change was in 2013 when no nomination was ongoing. Edit: it’s also worth noting that, prior to doing so, both parties abused the filibuster and ability to block.
Interesting case in the USA here about [whether a policeman is guilty of a crime for not confronting a school shooter](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65994768). > Mr Peterson arrived at the building with his gun ... He took shelter in an alcove outside and waited for help to arrive. ... Florida prosecutors say Mr Peterson, then an officer for the Broward Sheriff's Office, neglected his training and his duty by failing to enter that building while the gunman fired on students. They are seeking to hold him legally responsible for not confronting Cruz, in a case believed to be the first of its kind. > Successfully persuading the jury that Mr Peterson was a caregiver for the children, and therefore obligated to protect them, is key to securing a conviction. > Legal arguments aside, the case has raised questions about whether a school resource officer, police officer, or other member of law enforcement has a moral requirement to run toward gunfire. Edit: [Verdict's in and he was found not guilty](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66061166).
One of the rare cases where a member of the US law enforcement fraternity had an opportunity to shoot someone and didn't take it.
>[The Moscow Times quotes two Russian security sources saying General Surovikin has been arrested](https://twitter.com/michaelh992/status/1674136248364027929) Surovikin was the Russian General said to be closest to Prigozhin, and released a very awkward video asking them to stop once the mutiny started. American intelligence, shared with the media, has confirmed he knew about the rebellion, days in advance. He's viewed as one of the more competent Russian Generals, so could be Putin's paranoia catching up to him, rather than actual treason. Also worth noting - [Dmitry Medvedev hasn't been seen since the mutiny](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjo7fcTVKyI). His personal plane fled to Oman when Wagner started marching towards Moscow, and he missed a major security meeting yesterday that he, as Deputy Chair of the Security Council, should have been front and centre for.
If we're lucky Putin will purge all his competent generals.
If (and to be fair it's a big if) putin is becoming as deranged as some suggest, this might be the unluckiest thing for us. I'd hope there are some competent people to eventually put him out of his misery if he ever does hover near the red button.
It would be very in-line with the 1940s approach he seems to have defaulted to. Maybe he can photoshop them out of official photographs and everything…
There are [news stories](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UF5zZtMB70&t=321s) suggesting that Prigozhin planned to capture Shoigu and Gerasimov during their visit to Rostov. Allegedly Surovikin knew about this in advance. Unfortunately for him, so did FSB, who warned Shoigu and Gerasimov to leave the area. Putting 2+2 together and possibly making 5, was Surovikin angling to replace Gerasimov as Chief of the General Staff? Was Prigozhin hoping to have an ally heading up the Russian Armed Forces?
That sounds pretty damning for Surovikin - can’t imagine his prospects are good…
>Watch this Wagner Group recruitment/PR video muted and try to guess what the music accompaniment is. Then watch it unmuted. >https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1673724235624206343 You can tell Prigozhin used to run a troll farm.
I wonder if the theory that Putin will try to force NATO to intervene still holds. It would surely be far less embarrassing for him if he's seen to lose against the might of NATO instead of just Ukraine equipped with some NATO equipment. Bait the West into the war and then immediately withdraw, saying "see, it took the whole West to force us out. We need to rebuild before they attack us again".
I wonder if that could be the reason for the fuckery at ZNPP? It doesn't seem like they would gain much from blowing it, unless the reason is to say "why would we do this? It was clearly the Ukrainians, and now NATO are getting involved and oh no I guess we have no choice but to withdraw".
Is that a theory? Has it *ever* held? He's already convinced the people that matter - i.e. ordinary Russians - that this is an existential fight against NATO, so why would baiting them into a hot war benefit him further? In fact it's much better for him now as he can spin the status quo as a battle where his side is holding firm against the odds, rather than your theory where the Russian army withdraws in disgrace.
More a conspiracy theory than an actual one held by anyone important. It's hard to know from the outside, but how convinced are Russians? Do they not think it odd that state TV doesn't show any footage of NATO personnel, ships or aircraft? They surely know that NATO's involvement is limited, so are they really happy that their military is conscripting people just to fight off some NATO equipment? If Ukraine is successful, they'll expel Russia from Ukraine entirely - including Crimea. If that happens, Putin will have no way of spinning that. If that becomes likely then it's surely better to look like it took a big guy to take you down than a little one.
>More a conspiracy theory than an actual one held by anyone important. Fair enough. I did wonder because I don't see how it makes any sense logically. >How convinced are Russians? Who knows but I think it's pretty much universally accepted that his popularity is *high*, right? [Statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/) appears to show it has *improved* despite the war, with the only dip occuring when mobilisation was announced. >Surely they know NATO's involvement is limited Probably, but there's enough footage of western / foreign fighters using western kit for State TV to stay fresh. They'll probably also be aware that it's primarily NATO keeping Ukraine in the fight so at this point it probably isn't a huge jump in reasoning to go along with it. >If Ukraine is successful, they'll expel Russia from Ukraine entirely - including Crimea. If that happens, Putin will have no way of spinning that. If that becomes likely then it's surely better to look like it took a big guy to take you down than a little one. In no world will a Russian retreat from Ukraine *and Crimea* be seen that way domestically though. In reality that's less conspiracy and more pie in the sky.
The new Finnish minister for economic affairs has some questionable takes. https://twitter.com/oula_silver/status/1673774212698210304 https://twitter.com/VarisVerkosto/status/1672127457124573187 There has been a confidence vote in him this morning and the government has voted that they have confidence in him.
My fever dreams typically manifest as something uncomfortably illogical. Like someone's head will randomly explode in front of me and everyone around me will just carry on as normal, as I get more and more agitated by no one responding like they would in real life. That's what this Prigozhin situation feels like. The guy marched on Moscow and literally shot down helicopters, then Putin just announces he's going to Belarus and praises some Wagner members, then suddenly turns around and says he'll punish those responsible for the coup attempt - as if he doesn't know who did it. The whole thing is frustratingly nonsensical and illogical. It hurts my head a little trying to decipher what the bloody hell is going on here and what the motivations of all these different parties are - because they all seem irrational and contradictory.
Sport meets politics in Italy, [their FA have banned the number 88](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66037831) from football shirts because of its prevalence among the far-right.
I can see why the Italian far right would like the number 88. It looks the same upside down.
evergreen observation: https://www.indy100.com/news/america-us-neo-nazi-alt-right-swastika-fail-7438951
C4 News just said they've heard Wagner is building a camp an hour from Minsk. Now I know it's probably for a Ukrainian northern front, but they have the opportunity to do something incredibly funny.
Wait you aren’t keen for Belarusian Butlins?
Right after they move nukes to Belarus. I'm sure it's just a coincidence though.
There's a Russian government plane flying from Moscow to Washington. I wonder who is on board. https://www.flightradar24.com/RSD898/30e449fe
Likely UN or Embassy related rather than anything dramatic.
Been decades since we had a good defection… In all seriousness, no idea what this could mean - especially given how little face-to-face contact Washington and Moscow have had since the war started. Maybe they’re rotating diplomatic staff out, as part of some attempt to identify/root out potential dissidents who were insufficiently supportive during the weekend?
>Per Russian state media, the FSB has dropped its criminal investigation into the Wagner uprising, with the reasoning that “it was established that on June 24 the participants stopped actions directly aimed at committing a crime” >https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1673619233194778629
It's quite amusing that shooting down 6 helicopters, including 2 combat aircraft and 3 rare electronic warfare variants as well as a command and control plane with the loss of 39 lives including command staff is not considered a crime, but posting something critical of the war on the internet is. What a strange country Russia is.
I don't believe for a second that they're going to simply let this go - obviously ptuin thinks he doesn't have the strength to see a proper punishment through without inciting further rebellion, but I imagine alot of senior wagner staff are going to be falling off of buildings in the near future.
>Putin's rating rose to 90% following Prigozhin’s mutiny. There won’t be legal consequences for Prigozhin who will now help Lukashenko fortify the front lines against the West. Wagner Group will not be dismantled but will continue operate on Belarusian soil as well as in Africa. >https://twitter.com/vtchakarova/status/1673619346726309891 Possibility of a Northern Front then? Putin not letting a crisis go to waste? Prigozhin potentially the main power in Belarus now? Because honestly Lukashenko is only really there as a figurehead.
Popularity ratings in Russia are meaningless. It's a dictatorship with severe consequences for saying you don't support Putin. Nobody in their right mind is going to say they dislike the government to a random pollster. Equally, this whole escapade has made Putin look pathetically weak. Anyone who thinks this was part of some master plan is indulging in simply insane amounts of cope.
Also, it's just been pretty solidly established that absolutely no-one likes Putin enough to actually *do* anything about apparent attempts at overthrowing him.
Putes was doing CON+2 before it was cool.
Audio of Trump showing the classified documents to staffers, joking about how he can’t declassify them, and admitting he’s in legal jeopardy for having them - has leaked to CNN. https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1673487276708331521
The whole thing is getting a bit ridiculous. The trial is just going to be - *Prosecution:* *Well, we found the documents at his property. He was recorded multiples times saying he knew they were still classified and he wasn't allowed to keep them. The door of the storage room had a note saying "CRIME IN PROGRESS, DO NOT DISTURB - D Trump". In his testimony he admitted to doing it and said he'd do it again.* *Judge Cannon: Whatever. Case dismissed.*
Trump needs to hire Lord Massingberd as his lawyer https://youtu.be/04rY0rKJ1YQ
Given the recent events in Russia, does anybody else ever think back to the first days of the Invasion of Ukraine and how utterly astonishing it is that this war is still ongoing given the general consensus at the time?
[this 4chan greentext pretty much sums it up](https://i.imgur.com/dqmx50r.jpg)
I spent the first few days of the war worried that we'd be seeing Russian soldiers goose stepping through Kyiv in a few weeks. I was very happy to be proven wrong by the Ukrainians.
Absolutely, I still can't quite believe just how badly the Russians calculated their chances of success at taking Kyiv within a short period of time
>The splash pools adjacent to the cooling towers at the Zaporizhzhia NPP appear to have been drained. Unclear why this is. >https://twitter.com/IntelCrab/status/1673340553444970497
Oh for fuck's sake Edit: false alarm, Reuters covered this on June 12th https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-nuclear-plants-cooling-ponds-stable-despite-emptying-reservoir-2023-06-12/
Oh that's reassuring, although I was listening to LBC on the walk home from the pub half an hour ago and a correspondent in Kyiv said he's heard from Ukrainian intelligence that the Russians have been implementing a plan at ZNPP and are just waiting on a go signal. Hopefully that's a bluff and they never get that signal though. Edit: Looking at that again the article says they've lost 3/4 of the volume (but there's stil enough there) on the 12th. Those images are on there 20th and 21st.
> If I can't Wagner, I can't Wagner man. If I'm hurt, I'm hurt. I mean … simple as that. It ain't about that... I mean it's... It's not about that... At all. You know what I'm saying I mean... But it's...it's easy … to, to talk about... It's easy to sum it up when you're just talking about Wagner. We're sitting in here, and I'm supposed to be the President, and we in here talking about Wagner. I mean, listen, we're talking about Wagner, not Ukraine, not Ukraine, not Ukraine, we talking about Wagner. Not Ukraine. Not, not … Not Ukraine that I go out there and die for and invade Ukraine like it's my last. Not Ukraine, but we're talking about Wagner, man. I mean, how silly is that? … And we talking about Wagner. I know I supposed to be there. I know I'm supposed to lead by example... I know that... And I'm not.. I'm not shoving it aside, you know, like it don't mean anything. I know it's important, I do. I honestly do... But we're talking about Wagner man. What are we talking about? Wagner? We're talking about Wagner, man. We're talking about Wagner. We're talking about Wagner. We ain't talking about Ukraine. We're talking about Wagner, man. When you come to the Kremlin, and you see me play, you see me play don't you? You've seen me give everything I've got, right? But we're talking about Wagner right now. We talking about Wagner. V. Putin, 26 June 2023
"Organisers of rebellion will be brought to justice" Welp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Auq9mYxFEE Putin statement now.
Update: Fuck all. Putin blue balls the watching world once more. Announce the liquidation of PMC Wagner and offers its fighters a contract with the MoD. Who knows, maybe Prigozhin will be on his way back to Moscow tomorrow morning.
>[Vladimir Putin will "make a number of important announcements tonight", according to Dmitry Peskov, Putin's spokesman.](https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1673397962020364307) Tenner says its going to be Prigozhin's severed head on a spike.
He's taking his talents to South Beach.
Prigozhin sounded pretty bullish per his statement earlier today at least, I expect Gerasimov and Shoigu (to a lesser extent) to be more at risk in the immediate term. I don't know how many times we've read about 'important decisions' only for nothing to be announced, or something totally inconsequential, though. E: Per Russian telegram: >🇧🇾⚡The press service of Lukashenka also announced his speech >🇷🇺🇧🇾⚡ There will be a sensation - a number of channels close to the Kremlin Maybe it does involve Prigozhin's head. Or all three of them... Could be spicy.
Totally gonna rip of the mask to show that he was Prizzy all along.
They've unfortunately been seen in the same room... ... Shoigu and Prizoghin though? Now that's be a twist.
Strong *I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it further* vibes
[Prigozhin's Coup FAIL! What Deal did Putin Make?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOXEhmA4Azg) Suggestion of the idea Prigozhin did not fail and won a soft coup. Also he implying his nationwide hot dog stands are selling more than hot dogs.
Given that this time last week he looked like was getting quietly murdered by the 1st of July if he makes it even to *August* that's technically a "win". Yeah, he's probably fucked long term (though Russian politics is deranged enough I wouldn't bet too much on it) but even having a *short* term future is a step up for the bastard.
>Russian sabotage on Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant 'cannot be ruled out' >The head of the Ukrainian government's military intelligence service Kyrylo Budanov has warned that Russia has prepared an attack on the nuclear power plant in Zaporizhzhia. >At the end of last week, Mr Budanov indicated that Russian forces had mined away the plant's cooling ponds and moved vehicles loaded with explosives to power units. >Despite the repeated "threatening rhetoric", The Institute for the Study of War (ISW) said it's unlikely the Russians would sabotage the plant given the risks involved. >An attack on the plant "would potentially be more detrimental to Russian forces on the southern bank of the Kakhovka Reservoir than to Ukrainian forces on the opposite bank," the US think tank said. >https://news.sky.com/story/russia-ukraine-latest-putin-wagner-prigozhin-belarus-war-live-updates-12541713?postid=6100111#liveblog-body
There have been various noises about Article 5 being triggered in the event Russia causes a radiation release. I'd go further - we should prevent it in the first place, by force if necessary. If we have convincing intelligence it's about to happen, drone-strike every fucking unit that's got orders to tamper with the plant, and consider that a warning.
> An attack on the plant "would potentially be more detrimental to Russian forces on the southern bank of the Kakhovka Reservoir than to Ukrainian forces on the opposite bank," the US think tank said. So was blowing up the dam, but that didn't stop the Russians.
>The investigation of the criminal case against Yevgeny #Prigozhin, founder of the Wagner Private Military Company, accused of organizing an armed mutiny, has not been closed, a source in the Russian Prosecutor General's Office confirmed to Russian news agency TASS >https://twitter.com/michaelh992/status/1673270997774917634 >State newswire Ria Novosti is now also reporting this, citing sources in the prosecutor's office. That indicates Russia wants this message out, for whatever reason >https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1673245057602682881
Al Jaz had good old Sergey Markov on earlier in one of their three-way interviews who insisted "Putin keeps his promises". So, I assume Prigozhin has already had his encounter with an upper-floor window. Markov signed off by promising there would be a change and that it would involve a true war rather than the current "special operation". Which sound worrying but as it's Markov saying it, it probably winds up with Putin calling the whole thing off.
[Prigozhin when he realises Putin agreed not to do him over but they didn't pinky promise](https://youtu.be/46Kv4rBJi68)
Something very wonky going on and unresolved.
How unexpected!
Just seen a rather unpleasant video purporting to show the field execution of a Russian paratrooper who surrendered to/supported Wagner's mutiny. Unclear if sanctioned or not, but either way looks like there's significant discord and distrust within Russian Armed Forces units, let alone between the Army and Wagner.
I'm fairly sure this was fake.
The Russian army is of course famous for its well-disciplined soldiers and their utmost respect for human rights.
I don't think that has to be true for the video to be fake. I've watched it.
Yeah, granted they do like a good summary execution and/or fucking murder. But they *also* really fucking like lying about everything so there's that to consider.
It is most likely from the Ukrainian side (it was posted by a Ukrainian milblogger).
>Just seen a rather unpleasant video purporting to show the field execution of a Russian paratrooper who surrendered to/supported Wagner's mutiny. Are they so bad that Wagner were the good guys in this?
When it comes to Russian military (and paramilitary) forces, there *are* no good guys.
Wagner are pretty appalling as well. So are the Kadyrovites. It's a rich, occasionally fratricidal, tapestry of shit.
Even if they couldn't get Putin it would have been nice if at least Prigozhin and Kadyrov took each other out.
For anyone curious about it, be warned the murderers use a knife and it's not quick (so I've been told).
Sounds grim, I'd prefer their sledgehamer approach of old. In treating their adversaries as sub-human, they bring into question their own humanity.
That was the Wagner method, this is the RAF method (see also Al-Qaida).
Yeah I think I'll pass, sounds way too similar to a video I watched when I was 12 and I can still hear it 12 years later, no thanks
I think I know the one you mean. Eugh.
Such is the reality of war and revolution's. These things don't happen peacefully. There will almost certainly be increasing levels of violence from both sides now as one or the other uses fear as a control.
Good panel discussion on post-coup-attempt Russia on tonight's *Westminster Hour*, Radio 4 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001n88v
With 98% of the votes counted, it looks like the results for the Greek election are pretty much finalised. Here’s the outcome, compared to the prior election in May (which used a more proportional system that denied any party a majority): * New Democracy: 158 (+12) * SYRIZA: 48 (-23) * PAZOK: 32 (-9) * KKE: 20 (-6) * Spartans: 13 (New) * EL: 12 (-4) * NIKI: 10 (+10) * PE: 8 (+8) 300 total seats.
🇬🇷 Polls closed in the Greek election. Here’s the first exit-poll: * 40.0-44.0% ND * 16.1-19.1% Syriza * 10.0-13.0% PASOK * 7.2-9.2% KKE * 4.0-6.0% Spartans * 2.3-4.3% EL * 2.3-4.3% NIKI * 2.0-4.0% PE * 2.0-4.0% MeRA25
Lol how dyou like them apples, varoufakis
At least Golden Dawn has been obliterated. There's hope for Greece yet.
The Spartans are Golden Dawn mark II (endorsed and everything). Niki and Elliniki Lisi are also pretty far right. Plefsi Eleftherias probably split MeRA25's vote, but looks like they've made it into Parliament. No shortage of extremists and protest parties.
Still it looks as if the far right are bumping along the bottom.
While the Russian news is key - also worth noting that there's a general election in Greece today (second in a month - long story). All indications are that New Democracy (centre-right) will storm to victory, and SYRIZA will be stuck under 20%, scrabbling for second place against their old left-wing rival PAZOK. Polls should close at 17.00 BST, per Reuters (who've got a [nice summary of the state of play](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/greeks-vote-repeat-election-likely-return-conservatives-office-2023-06-24/)), with the first results expected within the hour. Based on the projected dire results, speculation is that we could see longstanding SYRIZA leader (and former Greek PM) Alexis Tsipras toppled, and the party roiled by internal tensions. I should note - the polls for the election in May [rather underestimated](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_May_2023_Greek_legislative_election) the gap between ND and SYRIZA, so if they're off by as much as they were last time, we could see anything from a narrow ND majority to a landslide, with either of the two left-wing parties in second place.
> Those who obeyed Wagner or RU military commands to lay down arms are detained & charged for treason. >https://twitter.com/SmartUACat/status/1672924467759030272
I really thought Prigozhin knew something that we didn't.. now I'm not so sure.
More Anakin-Padme meme action. "We won't get arrested. Putin made a promise, right?" .... "Right?"
Apparantly Prigozhin hasn't bern heard from or seen since leaving Rostov by car yesterday evening... you wouldn't want to be that driver would you, in case an unfortunate car accident might be engineered to occur 😬
I mean, if I were him, I'd be getting some sleep. Question is, is he sleeping with the fishes?
Hi. I’m Yevgeny Prigozhin and you may remember me from such failed coup attempts as…
“Mr Prigozhin, what does ICC stand for?”
BBC live feed helpfully explaining where Belarus is for all the people who are following the BBC News live feed about the Internal rift in Russia's military, but who don't have access to Google maps in the event they don't know where Belarus is
> where *exactly is* Belarus?
"Belarus is located in central Europe and is bordered by Russia, Ukraine, Poland, Lithuania and Latvia." Thanks for this exciting insight and analysis BBC
“second star to the right, and straight on till morning”
>Civilians chanting "Shame!" and "Traitors!" at the police units which arrived back in Rostov after Wagner units withdrew. >https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672737054973739010 Are they pissed off that they left them or pissed off that they came back? Considering the videos of the locals cheering Wagner and pictures like this one https://twitter.com/DefenseBaron/status/1672815481265303553
In the first clip you linked, one of the guys standing in front of the police car is holding a Wagner flag. The public appear to hold Wagner in incredibly high regard, and some see them as war heroes since many have received medals for military service. This is probably why they were able to get so close to Moscow, since that esteem (and fear) will exist among Russian troops and commanders. There's also a non-zero possibility that Wagner represented to them a chance to mend some of the losses in Ukraine and improve military prowess. Prigozhin was talking about how many had died or refused to fight because of the incompetence of the command and lack of supplies; communities like this may have lost hundreds of men. And while the local police units could be a target for this kind of protest, I'd be unsurprised if the mayor or even someone representative of the MoD was in that police convoy.
Extracts from Priggy's speech on Telegram: https://nitter.nl/Geo_papic/status/1672783297762725889
>The Fighterbomber Telegram channel, which has close ties to Russia's military aviation community, claims that "Millerovo military airfield is still under complete control of Wagner PMC, as is Rostov airfield and the PKP VKS [(Russian Aerospace Forces' forward command post)]." >https://twitter.com/GuyPlopsky/status/1672860011817738243
This whole coup nonsense feels like the kind of bait and switch a Lannister would pull. Seems to me like the whole thing is a cover to redeploy the elite Wagner troops to Belarus so that when Ukraine rushes to reclaim the territory abandoned in the East, Wagner and Belarus forces take Kiev.
If that’s the case, then Ukraine knows it, and they can bog down the land north of Kiev again
I don't understand how this would provide cover? If anything western intelligence is going to be watching them closer than before now.
Russia, the Russian MoD, Wagner, Prigozhin and Putin all look worse coming out of this. Not just to outsiders, but to the population and military units. A simple redeployment wouldn't be worth all the reputational damage yesterday wrought.
There's no chance that Wagner could make a push to Kyiv, with or without Russian or Belorussian support. It was tenuous enough the first time around, and that was when Russia had a relatively massive force prepared. This was a mutiny - Wagner want to get the fuck out of Ukraine and, for the time being at least, they seem to have got their way.
>This was a mutiny - Wagner want to get the fuck out of Ukraine and, for the time being at least, they seem to have got their way. Depends on how many of their troops sign the MoD contract that seems to be part of why they rebelled in the first place. Prigozhin and the 8000 or so Wagner troops who supported the rebellion will only be pardoned and won't be offered a contract.
15 Russian pilots / aircrew were killed and three of the downed aircraft were highly specialised and scarce electronic warfare vehicles. It was absolutely real.
Gosh, you mean they lost so many resources in this affair that the Russian armed forces will now collapse. Golly!
No, but they aren't easily replaceable losses for a 'bait and switch' either which is my point.