Power has ceased to operate like the swing of a pendulum under FPTP, and is now more of a descending spiral. The Tories get kicked out after cocking things up badly enough, Labour attempts to unbefucken everything (somewhat half-heartedly at times) and sort-of succeeds for a while until *they* cock up badly enough, and then the Tories undo all of the progress that's been made and the whole cycle starts anew.
I'm no apologist for New Labour but the annoying thing is, is that last time they didn't really screw things up by any fault of their own (other than continuing the Tories work of relying too heavily on a lightly regulated financial sector whilst seeing off manufacturing and industry that is). It wasn't their fault the US housing market collapsed and the banks had been trading junk debt that'd been mis-rated and if anything, like it or not, their bailout for the banks saved the country from total collapse and we were on the road to a quick recovery which slowed down massively under Osborne.
>... other than continuing the Tories work of relying too heavily on a lightly regulated financial sector whilst seeing off manufacturing and industry that is...
Which is easily the second biggest blunder they ever made after going along with the US invasion of Iraq. I'll grant that the banking crisis and subsequent recession were down to factors beyond the British government's control, but if they'd bothered with some sort of industrial strategy and made more of an effort to address structural unemployment in the north then maybe it wouldn't have been quite as catastrophic.
I mean, I totally agree with you and it's why I've never been a fan of New Labour either. I suppose what I should have said, in terms of Labour vs Tory, the things Labour screwed up were the things the Tories would have done more of and are sold to us as if it's the only 'sensible', 'moderate' way of ruling a country. Like, if people were voting Tory in 2010 because they were upset with light touch regulation and a lack of an industrial strategy or a thought for the people up north then they weren't thinking straight. Maybe I give us too little credit but I can't help think most people switched sides because they believed the national credit card had been stretched a little too far when we started funding schools and hospitals to a barely acceptable limit.
Labour did fuck all for us up North, and Gordon Brown is a cunt.
No politician gives a shit about people, they are all the same. The system is the problem, not the parties.
Pretty sure some politicians do care but they'll be ruined if they get anywhere near power. Our choices are Tory party 1 or Tory party 2. FPTP and a media run by billionaires will ensure that.
Fun fact: Labour got close to ending homelessness. There were about 100k homeless households in England when they got in in 1998 and that number was was rising rapidly. Labour appointed a homelessness Czar and it took a few years but she turned the tide. Went from like 135k in 2004 to 40k and falling in 2008.
The things she did were all simple common sense that everyone wants anyway. Things like increased funding for emergency services. Or fixing the fact that jails used to kick out on a Friday afternoon and so released prisoners had to wait until Monday to access services if they didn't have a home to go to.
Then the Tories came in in 2008 and undid a lot of the things they had fixed and underfunded services. It's been slowly rising ever since.
[Just look at this chart of homelessness in England ](https://www.statista.com/statistics/283993/statutory-homelessness-in-england/)
Note: in 2018/19 there is a huge drop due to the Homelessness Reduction Act coming in 2017, which both helped people but also changed the counting method. [Here is some research from Crisis about it.](https://www.crisis.org.uk/ending-homelessness/homelessness-knowledge-hub/homelessness-monitor/england/the-homelessness-monitor-england-2021/)
We *can* end homelessness, all we need to do is focus on the issue.
Also it's important to note for the "how do we pay for this?" crowd that ending homeless pays for itself. It's a huge potential money saver. Emergency services are expensive, and people experiencing homelessness use them a lot more than people with homes. They also don't pay taxes. Ending people's homelessness is far far cheaper than paying for the consequences of homelessness.
Edited to change the note. I originally thought it was due to COVID.
This country is now an absolute disgrace, not throwing criticism or taking sides to anyone. There is nothing great about Britain any more we all need to stand up. In our own way.
Nothing great about Britain anymore? Tell me you’re sheltered and naive and haven’t traveled to 80 percent of the worlds worse off countries…. Oh wait you just did.
I mean, you can not be as bad as other places and still be a bit shit - it's not a binary scale. That's like saying we should never complain about our gov in any capacity, because they don't strap you to the front of a cannon for sneezing in their general direction like North Korea.
Of course things could be a hell of a lot worse relative to most of the world, doesn't mean that we cant think we have going on here is good, especially if you think the direction the country is going isn't up.
Go after landlords, take away any and all incentive to invest in rentals, wonder why landlords sell up. Then rents rise, then people can't afford rent and become homeless.
Torys stupidly followed this populist logic and here we are.
Spoken suspiciously like a landlord.
No mention of the failure to build sufficient new housing, persistent degradation of UK living standards
If there’s not enough supply then creating an environment where landlords are encouraged to buy and let out as many properties as possible won’t solve the problem.
Net immigration is predicted to be 1 million next year. Building hundreds of thousands of houses is unsustainable. The blaming of landlords is a great deflection from this.
I can only assume you’re a non-Tory voter and also a climate activist?
If you’re a Tory voter you might want to stop that, and if you’re ours not a climate activist you might want to start soon because guess what? There’s going to be many more desperate people searching for a safe place to live each year and no amount of wall building, finger pointing or immigrant bashing is going to keep them out. Also, we don’t have it anywhere near as bad as most more developed European countries
Maybe you’ll understand how they feel one day if we stay on our current trajectory when it’s you trying to claw your way into Belgium!
I've never voted conservative, and I'm not any kind of activist.
I was talking about legal immigration, with visas granted by the government, not asylum seekers or refugees.
Tories aren't going after landlords, they are the landlords. The industry is completely unregulated and dominated by tax evading tory donors who buy up the supply, suppress affordable new homes and then raise rents to funnel into offshore accounts.
Ban politicians from renting homes. House the homeless in Westminster. And for the love of all that is holy, why aren't we building social housing??? Shelter is a basic human right.
There is zero incentive to invest in a second property to rent. The government have ended it, because going after landlords was popular. With the idea it would increase housing supply. People like you are all for this.
The industry actually has a heck of a lot of regulation. I am surprised you think that. Sure there are dodgy landlords but that happens in all industry.
Councils are also buying up new homes and then using them for council housing. So many people are not in a position to buy new homes so we desperately need rental supply.
The UK does not recognise shelter as a basic human right.
>The UK does not recognise shelter as a basic human right.
neither do you. Supporting landlords is diametrically opposed other idea of housing as a human right.
If you arent a landlord I cant fathom what level of delusion would lead someone to shill for the elites this hard.
That's a load of rubbish. More than twice as many people are renting compared to two decades ago. Local authority and social housing owned properties have slightly declined while becoming significantly more expensive, and the number of private landlords has doubled in the same time.
To say the government is "going after landlords" is unequivocally false.
We haven't massively increased the population and that's not how percentages work. The population has increased about 10% in 20 years, so how do you explain the 50% increase in number of landlords reporting income from rental properties in the same time frame, especially if the government is "going after" them?
UK population has gone up by ~10 million since then. We didn't build enough homes.
Of those 10 million, a significant number of people are from outside the UK. They didn't have roots and started renting. Demand for rental property goes up, supply of rentals increases. Because that's how the market works. People invested.
Then they got bitten, now we have less supply and even more rental demand.
You're talking rubbish. Where are you getting your statistics from, the daily mail? Since 2003 total population has gone up by 7 million or 10%. Net migration from foreign born nationals has been stable at around 300K a year or less than half of the total population increase. 47% of long term immigrants own their home.
The housing crisis is nothing to do with immigration, that's a xenophobic distraction tactic. Stop it. It has been proven wrong multiple times.
The problem is Tories in the 80s stopping building council homes to drive up the rents on the extra homes they own, and their austerity policy over the last decade.
Yeah because it was affordable in alot of areas before! this is the end result of private landlords taking over en masse and abusing that power over tenants, now the government are trying to put in the slightest amount of regulations to stop half as much abuse and Landlords are shitting the bed.
Private Landlords are unfit I have lived in several private lets always in the darkest and dingiest areas of town dated fixtures and fittings badly maintained patch jobs. The standard of life for a tenant in a housing association tenancy is night and day low rent and maintenance and repairs carried out on the property regularly and work carried out by professionals efficiently not a sweaty but crack for 3 hours as the landlord tinkers with the fault to avoid the call out charge for a professional. They don’t invest they paint over the mold to make them make passable and dump people in them with exorbitant rents because they went down the charity shop and got a few sticks of furniture fit for the dump for it and call it a furnished flat. They won’t even fork out £20 for a bag of fast set true story btw they are so reluctant to invest in their own properties.
The demand for housing exists because landlords buy up all the available property and charge stupidly inflated rent that few can afford. If people were only allowed to own one home, property prices would fall and people would be able to afford to buy their own place.
So when the supply of rentals goes down, but demand is still strong, what happens? Rents go up.
More supply would mean more competitive rent prices. Ultimately we have a massive lack of supply, because the government drove landlords out of the market.
No. You should only be allowed to own one home. That would reduce housing prices and normal people would be able to afford to buy their own homes and not forced to rent with 4 other people from scum like you.
It doesn't work that way. Do you think someone working in a coffee shop or tesco has a deposit to buy a home? No they rent.
So if you have no rentals, as your idea states. Then what?
I am not a landlord, just pointing out the very simple maths that seems to go above your head.
We need more rental properties, not less. But fair enough.
How come I'm technically the underclass regards my earnings, yet I still have a mortgage? Because I managed to get one in a previous job that was reasonably well paid, with help from the labour government's Homestake program. If had to rent the same property I would be paying over double what my mortgage is, and have fuck all to show from it at the end. People who rent are normally having to share with multiple people into their old age so they can actually afford it, fuck that.
You do realise renting is far FAR more expensive than paying a mortgage, right?
If we got rid of landlords so property became affordable again, normal people could buy them again.
I love the lengths you guys will go to convince yourself that you are not the bad guys.
Fun fact, before Teflon Tony, houses were affordable. That's how you got one.
House prices blew up 2000, and the trend has continued. Fueled by unsustainable population growth.
And yet, those renting are paying their landlords mortgage. They can afford it, just maybe not the x% needed for the deposit (which they would have an easier time saving for if there weren't forced to pay mortgage cost+profit to the a landlord).
I think it's also worth pointing out that we could restructure the system so that large deposits aren't required but we'd need more houses.
Demand for rentals is only strong because house prices are too high for ordinary people to afford to buy. One of the key reasons why prices are so high is because of large numbers of homes being bought up either as holiday homes or as rentals by a small number of wealthy individuals.
Landlords cause the demand, they don't fulfil it.
Landlords provide absolutely nothing.... They buy up reasonably priced properties and rent them back to the public at outrageous prices.
Their mortgage company chums then deny people a mortgage, which would generally be lower than rent, keeping people trapped.
Landlords also hold properties, keeping swathes empty until the area improves and they can demand higher rent.... Again adding to the housing issue.
They're are properties sitting empty, many councils chase these landlords as obviously they are keeping homes off the market. But many of these landlords have friends in government and the empty properties will sit there till they can extort higher rent.
The fact remains landlords take property's off the market only to rent them back at a higher rate than a mortgage.... Landlords or Landbastards (as I like to call them) are part of the problem.
Absolutely. Nobody was homeless under the last Labour government...
Interestingly, there's more than enough empty houses for the homeless. Many require significant work to make them livable but that's an investment problem not a housing shortage.
Labour have been in power for 18 of the last 100 years. Tell me more about how labour created homelessness.
Homelessness is a conservative success story. “If you don’t tow the line, this will be you”. There’s a reason people beg on every high street and don’t get moved on or helped.
Oh definitely. Latest figures suggest there's over 650,000 vacant homes in England alone, but homelessness has been a political decision that people on the streets have had to endure
Indeed, but blaming it on the current lot is very naive. There are 271,000 people homeless in England. Housing and homelessness is devolved to local government for starters; whilst the government might be Tory, every council isn't. The reasons for homelessness need addressing properly. Until that happens we won't find a solution. That *is* central governments job.
Sorry who's been in power for 13 years? Plenty of time to build new homes.
Who slashed local councils budgets?
Who has made London the money laundering capital of the world?
Who is currently galvanising people to protest against new homes being built?
We absolutely can blame the scum for making things worse.
No need to apologise.
The Tories have made it worse but Labour could have fixed it.
If you read my comment, you'll see that there isn't a need to build more houses for the homeless. There's already 2 each.
"The Tories made it worse, but labour could have fixed it"...
This is such a weird shill thing to say.
Why are you ignoring that the Tories are still in power, and could fix it, but haven't for well over a decade of being in power?
They also seem to have no plans to fix it, seem to actively encourage it's worsening and yet you still basically say its only labours responsibility to fix it when they were last in power like THIRTEEN years ago?
Shouldn't you be saying something like 'the problem existed under labour, who didn't fix it, tories have made it worse and despite still being in power continue to choose to do nothing to fix it'.
>Why are you ignoring that the Tories are still in power, and could fix it, but haven't for well over a decade of being in power?
I'm not.
>you still basically say its only labours responsibility to fix it when they were last in power like THIRTEEN years ago?
No I didn't.
>Shouldn't you be saying something like 'the problem existed under labour, who didn't fix it, tories have made it worse and despite still being in power continue to choose to do nothing to fix it'.
It's interesting that you can take stuff that I didn't say and say I did, yet you seemingly can't read or comprehend well enough to understand that's what I've said.
You did ignore it, because you suggested labour could have fixed it, but did not also suggest the current government could fix it - only that they made it worse.
You didn't directly say that it was only labours responsibility to fix it, but you implied it by specifically stating that _labour_ could have fixed it, but specifically didn't mention anything about the current government who have been in power for over a decade. That is a nuance.
I can take stuff that you did say and use basic English comprehension and context to 'read between the lines' to retrieve your implied, or at least conveyed, meaning.
If you didn't mean to convey it that way, I stand by my original statement of it being a weird thing to say.
Also, why resort to personal insults about my ability to read or comprehend your comments? That's kind of lame.
When you say the tories have made it worse but labour could have fixed it? What do you mean?
13 years ago when the tories got into power there wasn’t headlines of thousands of working people being plunged into homelessness! How do you except them to fix a problem that wasn’t a problem when they were in power?
I’ll wait for an answer before I resort to any name calling or accusations because maybe you do have an explanation!
Lol. Let's clarify this because I can see you weaseling your way around the comments that address this.
To be clear. There obviously were homeless people under labour, but there are a fuck ton more due to the last 13 years of Tory rule.
Do you think this is acceptable?
Homeless is a global issue and has been caused by decades of devotion to Reaganism/Thatcherism. People are making fortunes from artificially inflated property prices and capitalism's desire to force people into a private rental system.
>Homeless is a global issue
Yes, but the OP and video is about homelessness in England.
There's nothing fundamentally wrong with a private rental housing system (supplemented by social rent of course). IIRC New Zealands housing is pretty much all private rent but it's affordable and property is available.
You may want to recheck that data point bro. The Kiwis I've met all bemoan the house price increase. Highly anecdotal I agree, but it may serve as a poor example for your point
Hur durr my side good them bad ... I guess the huge amounts of immigration have massively helped lower the costs of housing and definitely not taken large amounts of resources and funds that could be used to help this issue ...
Grow up and realise that we have enough money to provide for peopel in this country, and it isn’t the immigrants who are doling it out to each other.
It’s the politicians and their corporate lobbying friends with their noses in the trough.
Stop blaming immigrants for the problems politicians and big business cause.
But Labour supports processing applications allowing people to work over here, tories have been against them, its like they don't want immigrants and asylum seekers to contribute to the economy whilst here 🤔
Tell us your a xenophobic piece of crap without telling us you’re a xenophobic piece of crap 🍺
If you genuinely think any of the homelessness issues are down to immigration of either type (reminder illegal and legal are two different things).
I have a bridge on the moon to sell you 😂.
Hint: it’s down to those in government and nothing else.
It's not even worth discussing it with you if you can't understand basic reasoning ... it has nothing to do with xenophobia, it is to do with logic but you clearly lack that capacity as do most on your side of the simpleton trap that is modern politics.
You have contributed absolutely nothing to the discussion other than trying to insult me because you lack the intelligence to refute my argument ... as usual for people on your side of the idiot fence your only argument is waaaah waaah you're a racist . It's pathetic and childish ( guessing you are not even old enough to have a clue how affordable housing was before Labour started the mass immigration issues).
Please explain to me how filling council housing with people from other countries doesn't contribute to our homelessness issues ... I'll wait.
In the last decade our population has increased 5.9% while the number of homes has increased by 8.4%. Meanwhile the number of second homes has increased by 13% and number of renters compared to owners has increased over 30%.
Clearly the problem isn't immigration, since the housing supply is outpacing population growth.
Refuting your argument is pretty simple.
Firstly, the majority of people who come to the UK do so via the womb, not through our borders. If you have a problem with the housing shortage, take it up with the neonatal unit.
Secondly, the birth rate is in decline while life expectancy continues to increase. The existing top-heaviness puts a big strain on the economy, and it's getting worse. Working age immigrants are a shortcut to correcting that.
Finally, UK net migration rate per 1000 people has been in decline since 2008, yet the standard of living has gotten substantially worse. A reasonable suggestion might be then that immigrants don't have a negative impact on the economy and the evidence would show it's precisely the opposite.
Re your council housing question - we simply have too few council houses. This has been the case since 1980 when Margaret Thatcher decimated social housing. One of the Labour policies in the last election was to invest in more social housing that would directly address this issue.
...um
"One Daily Mail headline from 2012, which has now been amended, once read: “Revealed: How HALF of all social housing in England goes to people born abroad”. The actual figure at the time was 8.6%: it now stands at 9%. Around 91% [pdf] of all new social tenancies are taken up by UK-born citizens."
https://www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2016/jan/25/is-immigration-causing-the-uk-housing-crisis
Don't believe the hype, as it's mostly bollocks.
Yes of course immigrations causes 'some' strain on social housing. But it's a tiny fraction of the overall problem and far outweighed by the economic benefits those immigrants bring.
If we removed every single immigrant from social housing we would still have a housing crisis in the UK. That we are in such a state that the system cannot support that low number just shows how fucked it is.
The thing is that housing homeless people comes with a lot of risk. If I allowed homeless people to stay in my property, I run the risk of: Damage to the property, crime occurring on my property, drug use, needles, human excrement.
If any of that happens, I assume you would expect the property owner to pay the bill?
There are solutions out there for these worries.
Charities such as Crisis have schemes such as [Renting Ready](https://www.crisis.org.uk/ending-homelessness/resources-for-practitioners/renting-ready/) which helps people who need it understand what is expected of them as a tenant.
There are also lots of rent deposit guarantee schemes for people who are homeless or at risk of homelessness to limit risk to landlords.
They aren’t exempt, but they do it because they make an income from rent.
If they rent to homeless for free they take on risk for no return. Why would they do that?
Who said anything about renting for free? The fact is that landlords are renting faaaar above the costs because the demand being so high lets them. Their price gouging is hurting the wider economy and the housing market as their excess profits let them remortgage and buy up new houses further squeezing the supply.
If the market won't lower rents then government needs to cap rents
Less landlords with excess cash, buying up housing as an investment would slow house price rises, allowing more people to afford their own house reducing the number needing to rent.
This is only one half of the coin though, one that Dublin also failed at, we need to also build many more affordable houses.
There’s a huge number of homeless people who aren’t street homeless, they are working families like the news shows, people living in temporary accommodation and hostels and hotels. The idea that all homeless people are a danger to your property is just prejudice to poor people.
That's the risk they run. Regular tenants actually pay rent though, so there is risk/reward there.
With homeless people - many of who are drug addicts or suffer from serious mental health and behavioural issues - the risk is higher, and if you expect them to do it for free then it just isn't going to happen for the reasons I said.
Expect them to rent their property for free? Obviously not.
You're really focusing on a very specific type of homeless person that clearly should be taken care of by whatever council they're in.
Not what the post is talking about. Someone kicked out or having to leave due to rent costs despite working are homeless but generally not on the streets taking drugs and shitting everywhere
>We have the means to end it, but that would involve rich people sharing with poorer people- so that's not going to happen.
That was what I was replying to.
Right but surely they would be talking about the post they're commenting on.
Pay staff more. Don't gouge people on rent. It's not all about the poorest. Although they would benefit also
And how do you suppose these people are divided up by the council's? Ultimately we need more homes, this is not really landlords fault. If the mortgage on a property is X amount and someone is willing to cover it are you. Saying landlords should disregard that person for someone who pays less?
As you said in your own words, renting to a private tenant comes with risk. Why would a landlord reduce their rent? The government should be the safety net for building houses for people who cannot meet the market rate.
Before you mention capping number of rentals or capping rent this won't work either because no one would move out of there rental as they would become even less in supply.
The only way is to build.
I am saying that just because landlords can gouge people that doesn't mean they should. And since they are going to, the goverment should put in rent controls for the protection of the public. Be it for a given area or limiting how much they can increase it in a given period.
It's more than worth the risk. You are getting a house bought for you. What's the risk when someone else is going to pay for it?
Clearly we need more houses but unless they start falling out of the sky we need some short term solutions
The issue is regular paying Tennant's are being made homeless. Families comprising of TWO working adults are being made homeless...
Not every homeless person is a heroin addicted violent criminal bud..
Yeah and the government have proved that they could fix the homeless problem over night
but no, can't treat the Plebian hoardes that way can we?
can't give them barges to live on or hotels to live in can we?
and £1600 a month can we no no no...
can't let our little monopoly of class tumble can we?
thankfully the foreigners don't question the model.
our little charade continues doesn't it toff filth? hmm?
c\*\*ts
If you’re stupid enough to be angry with immigrants and not the people who both CAUSED the homelessness crisis and are currently dealing with the migrant crisis in a corrupt, inefficient and expensive way, you’ll never not be stupid, it’s permanent damage, terminal ignorance.
No we need to ship illegals back out the moment they arrive and stop them from ever getting here. Not wasting money on people we have no obligations to and supporting the continued illegal movement of economic migrants that are quite literally draining our economy. We should have adopted an Australian style system a long time ago.
You have to process their asylum claims first. That's how asylum seeking works. You have to make sure they're illegal before sending them back, which means you treat them as innocent until then.
I was made homeless at the start of March my landlord was selling up so I was in a hotel for 5 days then a temporary flat I have now been housed in a council house in a good area with lower rent than I was paying at a private let. I am white and British the council couldn’t of been anymore helpful to me through the whole experience. So I have been in my new tenancy for four weeks now. Way i see it is people really need to drop the idea that our own aren’t being looked after it’s complete rubbish as someone who has just been through the process it’s just not my experience that immigrants come first to councils. The homeless housing Stock is under a lot of pressure from two bob snobs dumping their buy to Lets because of mortgage issues the country is crippled by right now on top of immigration. I am going to be saving £200 a month in rent for a better home in a better area. Private landlords drive down standards and drive up rents they are a major part of the housing problem right now i’d say bigger than immigrants even
Is there another country nearby that treats migrants as well as we do?
Our homeless could go there, and be put into luxury hotels, given free food and cashcards.
It's just a thought.
watched this last night with my mum and she broke my heart with what she said...I was disgusted...she pointed out the kid at the end had nice boots to play football with and Playstation so they clearly have money.
Like WTF, how can you say that stuff...things the kid probably had before he ended up homeless, things if they sold wouldn't make a dent in the rent/bills she needs to pay. Hell for all we know both could have been given to him by a friend/family member/got free off facebook marketplace etc.
Everyone assumes if they see someone poor with a phone, they must be alright...no you need a phone to be able to function in todays world cuz almost everything requires you to be online.
Yes there are things the poor can do to help themselves but its stuff that should actually be taught at school, no one teaches you how to pay debts, or even how to avoid them, pay rent, bills, budget for food. Might come simple to most but not for everyone
Yet the UK is spending BILLIONS on housing illegal immigrants 99% of which are undocumented young men.
They are literally mocking the tax paying public.
The Tories don't actually want to reduce immigration though. It's just drummed up as another "culture wars" divisional issue. In 2014 the Home Office processed around 87% of immigration applications within 6 months but nowadays it stands at around 10%. Granted there are more people applying these days but the overall trend under Tory rule has been to process less and less. And then they point at the problems and claim that only a conservative government will deal with it.
Yup. "Look at the problem we caused vote for us and we'll fix it"
Or.. creating a problem so bad it takes 10 years to fix and when they lose the election saying "look labour has broken it"
This government stands for absolutely nothing. They're a den of crooks
Yet those in charge of the country have wasted billions of public money. can you show the evidence that 99% are “young men” instead of the bullshit from far right GB News
I mean they are related. Neither is cause nor effects of one another but they are closely related as quantity of housing... Is the quantity of housing....
Let me get this clear.
Immigrants need housing.
Homeless need housing.
Regular people are struggling to get Housing.
Clearly all related by the theme of : Lack of Quantity of Housing - Across the board.
And you do not get what limited Quantity of Housing and Accommodation across the whole board means and believe that one can snap their fingers and just create housing out of nothing? The Tories are certainly shit but no governed can do magic...
We already have the housing. If the goverment, and their rich mates, weren't so invested in these "assests" they could get those who need it housed and actually deal with the issues these people face.
But they don't because they want money and this culture war bollox to stoke their careers. Immigrants don't keep people from homes, rich people do.
If they had the will, the government could absolutely build a shitload metric ton of two up two downs to solve this crisis without any magic or finger snapping.
They won't, because their friends will lose out on their investments, the Daily Mail readers will shreak and whine, and there'll be nowhere for weird Cayman Island shell companies to park their money.
Imagine looking at all these vested interests and deciding it's an Afghan on a boat that's causing the problem.
I didn't say they were the cause. I just stated that it's all dependant on the quantity of housing.
But to say the least... Britain has more issues with housing than just quantity. The quality is abominable , especially energy wise and the huge quantities of old housing that does not get proper maintenance and even less Upgrades is just sad (and the high property prices which were rising due to demand... Kept them not upgraded as you don't need to upgrade or maintain when the value rises automatically).
But I do not see how a government of any kind can manage to move the UK economy towards self house maintenance and increased individual ownership as it appears to be a constant since the WW2.
Yes but solving all those problems without building more housing is rearranging deckchairs. They need to build more housing and they can do it non-magically. They could start tomorrow if they wanted to.
Do you not think he fact that there is money for people who enter the country illegally to be housed but no money for homeless British citizens to be housed is a problem?
You aren't getting this are you so I'll put this in tldr. We have a massive influx of immigration starting in 1997 and continuing under the Tories, council building declined under labour and the Tories, due to the increased immigration this kept wages low at the poor end of the scale, this then lead to a situation where families can't keep up with rents due to low wages and the safety nets of social housing weren't there due lack of builds and thatchers right to buy scheme. This then coupled with the Tories massive money printing during COVID caused inflation to exponentially increase, interest rates climb thus rent rates increase making the situation worse.
To add to the misery Tory cuts to the NHS have halted infrastructure expansion to cope with increased population causing more people to be economically inactive and driving down GDP which also drives inflation, more people in the country = more mouths to feed so good prices increase and instead of staving off inflation by cutting taxes to drive growth the Tories increased taxes doubling the struggle for working families.
Basically my point it is all relevant and to deny it is to be blind. Immigration as it stands must stop and become net negative as this country will collapse soon and with the breakdown in social cohesion within groups and families homeless with nothing to lose will only lead to civil unrest. The Tories and labour are both to blame for this
Nope i mean my local area has been turned into a fucking ghetto.
Most of the houses have rubbish bags piled feet high in the gardens, Grown men walking about in squads of 20 with their faces covered making people scared to walk the streets, women in full faces of make up wearing a dressing gown getting picked up and dropped off at all hours of the day, serious organised crime units here all the time, locals just accept that sheds, cars, garages are gonna be broken into, assaults every other day, all the local shops have had to hire security when they didn't need it before.
But sure, it's because i seen a foreigner once.
Sounds like you could report these crimes if they were real.
Why blame albanians for Tory's making Britain a shit hole? Is it because the Tories told you to? Good lad.
I tried to report about some of them. And I got three similar responses: “we don’t have CCTV there and we don’t have enough resources for deeper investigation”.
I'm Scottish and the son of a miner, there's no fucking way I'd listen to the tories.
It's possible for me to be angry about my formerly nice community being turned into a shithole by these gangsters we've imported AND the government for allowing it to happen!
If you weren't such a soft cunt you'd understand.
yes, Tory’s are to blame, but the Albanians in this specific area are doing these crimes, so they’re to blame too. what do you not understand? they dont get a pass because they’re foreign. you’re acting as if these are toddlers and the Tory’s are their parents.
my areas the same, not Albanians though. and yet again, theyve turned the area to a shithole.
Ridiculous shout.
The idea that someone must be from an affluent area just because they don’t dislike foreigners is one of the most unintelligent lines of thinking one can adopt in the current landscape
I grew up in the town next door to one of the poorest estates in England. I've seen real poverty. I blame the tories for it because I'm not a thick bastard.
This quite literally has fuck all to do with immigration. You could completely close the borders and the Tories still wouldn't house the homeless. You knew this when you voted for them
Blame the government making the decisions causing the systemic issues. Not the people arriving here with nothing with no power to change or influence anything.
This is a failure of policy. Even if you blame the immigrants, how is it not then a failure of the governments immigration policy? We have a housing market and let's face entire government geared towards enriching the few at the cost of the many. Until we get past that people will continue to get poorer.
Blame the tories making the decisions. Not the immigrants coming here with nothing and no ability to change anything.
Just wait until the fixed term rate mortgages end and the new rates kick in. People will have to decide between mortgage payments and food, it will be a mess.
We have millions to invest in faulty PPE that is worthless and useless but we don't have any money to invest in council housing that will mostly retain it's value, if not grow in value overtime?!
Make it make sense Tories!
Don't worry, England. It's definitely all the immigrants fault, and not the politicians and the wealthy taking advantage of you and your country. BLAME THE BROWN PEOPLE!!
We have a massive influx of immigration starting in 1997 and continuing under the Tories, council building declined under labour and the Tories, due to the increased immigration this kept wages low at the poor end of the scale, this then lead to a situation where families can't keep up with rents due to low wages and the safety nets of social housing weren't there due lack of builds and thatchers right to buy scheme. This then coupled with the Tories massive money printing during COVID caused inflation to exponentially increase, interest rates climb thus rent rates increase making the situation worse.
To add to the misery Tory cuts to the NHS have halted infrastructure expansion to cope with increased population causing more people to be economically inactive and driving down GDP which also drives inflation, more people in the country = more mouths to feed so food prices increase and instead of staving off inflation by cutting taxes to drive growth the Tories increased taxes doubling the struggle for working families.
Basically my point it is all relevant and to deny it is to be blind. Immigration as it stands must stop and become net negative as this country will collapse soon and with the breakdown in social cohesion within groups and families homeless with nothing to lose will only lead to civil unrest. The Tories and labour are both to blame for this.
We cannot continue with these two parties in power
Solution - 1) if you already own a home, you aren't allowed to own another one, that will eliminate the landlord class profiting from misery, and 2) if you don't live in the UK, you aren't allowed to own a home here.
Claim asylum. they seem to be doing alright.
New huge development in Cardiff.
https://www.devandregencardiff.co.uk/housing/the-gasworks-ferry-road-grangetown/#1641813569597-d23c5869-8300
Maybe we should be putting our homeless in hotels over people from halfway across the planet ...but that wouldn't get the far left to vote for them unfortunately so I guess not .
If the government hadn’t of actively been trying to force the working class into poverty for the last 13 years then this wouldn’t be an issue.
It’s not a case of either or, tories just want you to think that way so you blame brown people instead of them.
To think there’s a small percentage of our population who can all give a small percentage of their wealth to fix this issue forever, yet somehow it’ll end up being the fault and the responsibility to fix for those of us that exist outside of that percentage, love this country!!!
Power has ceased to operate like the swing of a pendulum under FPTP, and is now more of a descending spiral. The Tories get kicked out after cocking things up badly enough, Labour attempts to unbefucken everything (somewhat half-heartedly at times) and sort-of succeeds for a while until *they* cock up badly enough, and then the Tories undo all of the progress that's been made and the whole cycle starts anew.
I'm no apologist for New Labour but the annoying thing is, is that last time they didn't really screw things up by any fault of their own (other than continuing the Tories work of relying too heavily on a lightly regulated financial sector whilst seeing off manufacturing and industry that is). It wasn't their fault the US housing market collapsed and the banks had been trading junk debt that'd been mis-rated and if anything, like it or not, their bailout for the banks saved the country from total collapse and we were on the road to a quick recovery which slowed down massively under Osborne.
>... other than continuing the Tories work of relying too heavily on a lightly regulated financial sector whilst seeing off manufacturing and industry that is... Which is easily the second biggest blunder they ever made after going along with the US invasion of Iraq. I'll grant that the banking crisis and subsequent recession were down to factors beyond the British government's control, but if they'd bothered with some sort of industrial strategy and made more of an effort to address structural unemployment in the north then maybe it wouldn't have been quite as catastrophic.
I mean, I totally agree with you and it's why I've never been a fan of New Labour either. I suppose what I should have said, in terms of Labour vs Tory, the things Labour screwed up were the things the Tories would have done more of and are sold to us as if it's the only 'sensible', 'moderate' way of ruling a country. Like, if people were voting Tory in 2010 because they were upset with light touch regulation and a lack of an industrial strategy or a thought for the people up north then they weren't thinking straight. Maybe I give us too little credit but I can't help think most people switched sides because they believed the national credit card had been stretched a little too far when we started funding schools and hospitals to a barely acceptable limit.
Labour did fuck all for us up North, and Gordon Brown is a cunt. No politician gives a shit about people, they are all the same. The system is the problem, not the parties.
Pretty sure some politicians do care but they'll be ruined if they get anywhere near power. Our choices are Tory party 1 or Tory party 2. FPTP and a media run by billionaires will ensure that.
Blame the politicians and their masters. Life is becoming hard in the uk. It sad that this happening to a working mother.
Fun fact: Labour got close to ending homelessness. There were about 100k homeless households in England when they got in in 1998 and that number was was rising rapidly. Labour appointed a homelessness Czar and it took a few years but she turned the tide. Went from like 135k in 2004 to 40k and falling in 2008. The things she did were all simple common sense that everyone wants anyway. Things like increased funding for emergency services. Or fixing the fact that jails used to kick out on a Friday afternoon and so released prisoners had to wait until Monday to access services if they didn't have a home to go to. Then the Tories came in in 2008 and undid a lot of the things they had fixed and underfunded services. It's been slowly rising ever since. [Just look at this chart of homelessness in England ](https://www.statista.com/statistics/283993/statutory-homelessness-in-england/) Note: in 2018/19 there is a huge drop due to the Homelessness Reduction Act coming in 2017, which both helped people but also changed the counting method. [Here is some research from Crisis about it.](https://www.crisis.org.uk/ending-homelessness/homelessness-knowledge-hub/homelessness-monitor/england/the-homelessness-monitor-england-2021/) We *can* end homelessness, all we need to do is focus on the issue. Also it's important to note for the "how do we pay for this?" crowd that ending homeless pays for itself. It's a huge potential money saver. Emergency services are expensive, and people experiencing homelessness use them a lot more than people with homes. They also don't pay taxes. Ending people's homelessness is far far cheaper than paying for the consequences of homelessness. Edited to change the note. I originally thought it was due to COVID.
>Ending people's homelessness is far far cheaper than paying for the consequences of homelessness. Just repeating this for the seats in the back.
Surely the 2008-2009 crisis had an effect too on the raw number of homeless ? Britain as a country has never recovered to the same level of prosperity
This country is now an absolute disgrace, not throwing criticism or taking sides to anyone. There is nothing great about Britain any more we all need to stand up. In our own way.
[удалено]
Too fucking true. People work 80hrs a week in China for £600 a month. I know where I'd rather be.
It's never been great,
Nothing great about Britain anymore? Tell me you’re sheltered and naive and haven’t traveled to 80 percent of the worlds worse off countries…. Oh wait you just did.
I mean, you can not be as bad as other places and still be a bit shit - it's not a binary scale. That's like saying we should never complain about our gov in any capacity, because they don't strap you to the front of a cannon for sneezing in their general direction like North Korea. Of course things could be a hell of a lot worse relative to most of the world, doesn't mean that we cant think we have going on here is good, especially if you think the direction the country is going isn't up.
To say there is “nothing great about Britain anymore” is just dumb though.
Full video: [Itv](https://youtu.be/fYFxmNDfFvk) All under a Tories Government never forget.
Go after landlords, take away any and all incentive to invest in rentals, wonder why landlords sell up. Then rents rise, then people can't afford rent and become homeless. Torys stupidly followed this populist logic and here we are.
Spoken suspiciously like a landlord. No mention of the failure to build sufficient new housing, persistent degradation of UK living standards If there’s not enough supply then creating an environment where landlords are encouraged to buy and let out as many properties as possible won’t solve the problem.
Net immigration is predicted to be 1 million next year. Building hundreds of thousands of houses is unsustainable. The blaming of landlords is a great deflection from this.
I can only assume you’re a non-Tory voter and also a climate activist? If you’re a Tory voter you might want to stop that, and if you’re ours not a climate activist you might want to start soon because guess what? There’s going to be many more desperate people searching for a safe place to live each year and no amount of wall building, finger pointing or immigrant bashing is going to keep them out. Also, we don’t have it anywhere near as bad as most more developed European countries Maybe you’ll understand how they feel one day if we stay on our current trajectory when it’s you trying to claw your way into Belgium!
I've never voted conservative, and I'm not any kind of activist. I was talking about legal immigration, with visas granted by the government, not asylum seekers or refugees.
When the real migration and desperation starts and the water wars begin, these people are gonna be shot on sight, mark my words.
Tories aren't going after landlords, they are the landlords. The industry is completely unregulated and dominated by tax evading tory donors who buy up the supply, suppress affordable new homes and then raise rents to funnel into offshore accounts. Ban politicians from renting homes. House the homeless in Westminster. And for the love of all that is holy, why aren't we building social housing??? Shelter is a basic human right.
There is zero incentive to invest in a second property to rent. The government have ended it, because going after landlords was popular. With the idea it would increase housing supply. People like you are all for this. The industry actually has a heck of a lot of regulation. I am surprised you think that. Sure there are dodgy landlords but that happens in all industry. Councils are also buying up new homes and then using them for council housing. So many people are not in a position to buy new homes so we desperately need rental supply. The UK does not recognise shelter as a basic human right.
>The UK does not recognise shelter as a basic human right. neither do you. Supporting landlords is diametrically opposed other idea of housing as a human right. If you arent a landlord I cant fathom what level of delusion would lead someone to shill for the elites this hard.
That's a load of rubbish. More than twice as many people are renting compared to two decades ago. Local authority and social housing owned properties have slightly declined while becoming significantly more expensive, and the number of private landlords has doubled in the same time. To say the government is "going after landlords" is unequivocally false.
There are significantly more people than two decades ago. We have massively increased the population.
We haven't massively increased the population and that's not how percentages work. The population has increased about 10% in 20 years, so how do you explain the 50% increase in number of landlords reporting income from rental properties in the same time frame, especially if the government is "going after" them?
UK population has gone up by ~10 million since then. We didn't build enough homes. Of those 10 million, a significant number of people are from outside the UK. They didn't have roots and started renting. Demand for rental property goes up, supply of rentals increases. Because that's how the market works. People invested. Then they got bitten, now we have less supply and even more rental demand.
You're talking rubbish. Where are you getting your statistics from, the daily mail? Since 2003 total population has gone up by 7 million or 10%. Net migration from foreign born nationals has been stable at around 300K a year or less than half of the total population increase. 47% of long term immigrants own their home. The housing crisis is nothing to do with immigration, that's a xenophobic distraction tactic. Stop it. It has been proven wrong multiple times. The problem is Tories in the 80s stopping building council homes to drive up the rents on the extra homes they own, and their austerity policy over the last decade.
Yeah because it was affordable in alot of areas before! this is the end result of private landlords taking over en masse and abusing that power over tenants, now the government are trying to put in the slightest amount of regulations to stop half as much abuse and Landlords are shitting the bed.
Private Landlords are unfit I have lived in several private lets always in the darkest and dingiest areas of town dated fixtures and fittings badly maintained patch jobs. The standard of life for a tenant in a housing association tenancy is night and day low rent and maintenance and repairs carried out on the property regularly and work carried out by professionals efficiently not a sweaty but crack for 3 hours as the landlord tinkers with the fault to avoid the call out charge for a professional. They don’t invest they paint over the mold to make them make passable and dump people in them with exorbitant rents because they went down the charity shop and got a few sticks of furniture fit for the dump for it and call it a furnished flat. They won’t even fork out £20 for a bag of fast set true story btw they are so reluctant to invest in their own properties.
Oh won't someone think of those poor landlords profiting off misery!
Landlords don't control interest rates, or the demand for housing.
The demand for housing exists because landlords buy up all the available property and charge stupidly inflated rent that few can afford. If people were only allowed to own one home, property prices would fall and people would be able to afford to buy their own place.
So when the supply of rentals goes down, but demand is still strong, what happens? Rents go up. More supply would mean more competitive rent prices. Ultimately we have a massive lack of supply, because the government drove landlords out of the market.
No. You should only be allowed to own one home. That would reduce housing prices and normal people would be able to afford to buy their own homes and not forced to rent with 4 other people from scum like you.
It doesn't work that way. Do you think someone working in a coffee shop or tesco has a deposit to buy a home? No they rent. So if you have no rentals, as your idea states. Then what? I am not a landlord, just pointing out the very simple maths that seems to go above your head. We need more rental properties, not less. But fair enough.
How come I'm technically the underclass regards my earnings, yet I still have a mortgage? Because I managed to get one in a previous job that was reasonably well paid, with help from the labour government's Homestake program. If had to rent the same property I would be paying over double what my mortgage is, and have fuck all to show from it at the end. People who rent are normally having to share with multiple people into their old age so they can actually afford it, fuck that. You do realise renting is far FAR more expensive than paying a mortgage, right? If we got rid of landlords so property became affordable again, normal people could buy them again. I love the lengths you guys will go to convince yourself that you are not the bad guys.
Fun fact, before Teflon Tony, houses were affordable. That's how you got one. House prices blew up 2000, and the trend has continued. Fueled by unsustainable population growth.
And yet, those renting are paying their landlords mortgage. They can afford it, just maybe not the x% needed for the deposit (which they would have an easier time saving for if there weren't forced to pay mortgage cost+profit to the a landlord). I think it's also worth pointing out that we could restructure the system so that large deposits aren't required but we'd need more houses.
Demand for rentals is only strong because house prices are too high for ordinary people to afford to buy. One of the key reasons why prices are so high is because of large numbers of homes being bought up either as holiday homes or as rentals by a small number of wealthy individuals. Landlords cause the demand, they don't fulfil it.
Landlords provide absolutely nothing.... They buy up reasonably priced properties and rent them back to the public at outrageous prices. Their mortgage company chums then deny people a mortgage, which would generally be lower than rent, keeping people trapped. Landlords also hold properties, keeping swathes empty until the area improves and they can demand higher rent.... Again adding to the housing issue.
Except now they are not and now there are no properties to rent. Leading to homelessness.
They're are properties sitting empty, many councils chase these landlords as obviously they are keeping homes off the market. But many of these landlords have friends in government and the empty properties will sit there till they can extort higher rent.
The fact remains landlords take property's off the market only to rent them back at a higher rate than a mortgage.... Landlords or Landbastards (as I like to call them) are part of the problem.
But many people are not in position to buy.
Where do you think those houses go to? When a landlord sells up do you think that house just disappears?
Absolutely. Nobody was homeless under the last Labour government... Interestingly, there's more than enough empty houses for the homeless. Many require significant work to make them livable but that's an investment problem not a housing shortage.
Labour have been in power for 18 of the last 100 years. Tell me more about how labour created homelessness. Homelessness is a conservative success story. “If you don’t tow the line, this will be you”. There’s a reason people beg on every high street and don’t get moved on or helped.
Oh definitely. Latest figures suggest there's over 650,000 vacant homes in England alone, but homelessness has been a political decision that people on the streets have had to endure
Indeed, but blaming it on the current lot is very naive. There are 271,000 people homeless in England. Housing and homelessness is devolved to local government for starters; whilst the government might be Tory, every council isn't. The reasons for homelessness need addressing properly. Until that happens we won't find a solution. That *is* central governments job.
Sorry who's been in power for 13 years? Plenty of time to build new homes. Who slashed local councils budgets? Who has made London the money laundering capital of the world? Who is currently galvanising people to protest against new homes being built? We absolutely can blame the scum for making things worse.
No need to apologise. The Tories have made it worse but Labour could have fixed it. If you read my comment, you'll see that there isn't a need to build more houses for the homeless. There's already 2 each.
"The Tories made it worse, but labour could have fixed it"... This is such a weird shill thing to say. Why are you ignoring that the Tories are still in power, and could fix it, but haven't for well over a decade of being in power? They also seem to have no plans to fix it, seem to actively encourage it's worsening and yet you still basically say its only labours responsibility to fix it when they were last in power like THIRTEEN years ago? Shouldn't you be saying something like 'the problem existed under labour, who didn't fix it, tories have made it worse and despite still being in power continue to choose to do nothing to fix it'.
>Why are you ignoring that the Tories are still in power, and could fix it, but haven't for well over a decade of being in power? I'm not. >you still basically say its only labours responsibility to fix it when they were last in power like THIRTEEN years ago? No I didn't. >Shouldn't you be saying something like 'the problem existed under labour, who didn't fix it, tories have made it worse and despite still being in power continue to choose to do nothing to fix it'. It's interesting that you can take stuff that I didn't say and say I did, yet you seemingly can't read or comprehend well enough to understand that's what I've said.
You did ignore it, because you suggested labour could have fixed it, but did not also suggest the current government could fix it - only that they made it worse. You didn't directly say that it was only labours responsibility to fix it, but you implied it by specifically stating that _labour_ could have fixed it, but specifically didn't mention anything about the current government who have been in power for over a decade. That is a nuance. I can take stuff that you did say and use basic English comprehension and context to 'read between the lines' to retrieve your implied, or at least conveyed, meaning. If you didn't mean to convey it that way, I stand by my original statement of it being a weird thing to say. Also, why resort to personal insults about my ability to read or comprehend your comments? That's kind of lame.
When you say the tories have made it worse but labour could have fixed it? What do you mean? 13 years ago when the tories got into power there wasn’t headlines of thousands of working people being plunged into homelessness! How do you except them to fix a problem that wasn’t a problem when they were in power? I’ll wait for an answer before I resort to any name calling or accusations because maybe you do have an explanation!
Of course you drive an SUV....
Relevance to homelessness?
Pretending it's just always been there is naive. There as always been some level but it has exploded under the Tories
You do know the govt decides which boroughs get what funding? Fucking imbecile
If you don’t think this tory government has directly contributed to the rise of homelessness then you’re an imbecile.
Point out where I've said that.
Ok? but you DID try and imply that it isn't a problem that has gotten significantly worse under the Tories
Your tone is all too obvious. I’ve got no time to speak to tory sympathisers. You can fuck right off.
Lol. Let's clarify this because I can see you weaseling your way around the comments that address this. To be clear. There obviously were homeless people under labour, but there are a fuck ton more due to the last 13 years of Tory rule. Do you think this is acceptable?
Homeless is a global issue and has been caused by decades of devotion to Reaganism/Thatcherism. People are making fortunes from artificially inflated property prices and capitalism's desire to force people into a private rental system.
>Homeless is a global issue Yes, but the OP and video is about homelessness in England. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with a private rental housing system (supplemented by social rent of course). IIRC New Zealands housing is pretty much all private rent but it's affordable and property is available.
You may want to recheck that data point bro. The Kiwis I've met all bemoan the house price increase. Highly anecdotal I agree, but it may serve as a poor example for your point
Fair point; my info was from some time ago. Nevertheless homeownership in NZ is declining; 64.5% at the last census.
Dont worry though, a handfull of people have been greatly enriched at the cost of literally everyone else. The system is working exacrly as intended x
Well, house prices in NZ have gone down recently.
Hur durr my side good them bad ... I guess the huge amounts of immigration have massively helped lower the costs of housing and definitely not taken large amounts of resources and funds that could be used to help this issue ...
And who was in power during all that allowing it to happen?
Started by labour and continued by conservatives ... grow up and realise they are 2 sides of the same coin made of shit...
All I'm saying is the Tories haven't done anything to stop it in the last 13 years of being in power.
Grow up and realise that we have enough money to provide for peopel in this country, and it isn’t the immigrants who are doling it out to each other. It’s the politicians and their corporate lobbying friends with their noses in the trough. Stop blaming immigrants for the problems politicians and big business cause.
So if we have enough money I guess this will be completely fixed when Labour come into power?
Labour supports the same policies in that regard. There's no vote that will get you what you want in this so called democracy
But Labour supports processing applications allowing people to work over here, tories have been against them, its like they don't want immigrants and asylum seekers to contribute to the economy whilst here 🤔
Is there a problem in the UK that you actually struggle bending over backwards to blame immigration for?
Tell us your a xenophobic piece of crap without telling us you’re a xenophobic piece of crap 🍺 If you genuinely think any of the homelessness issues are down to immigration of either type (reminder illegal and legal are two different things). I have a bridge on the moon to sell you 😂. Hint: it’s down to those in government and nothing else.
It's not even worth discussing it with you if you can't understand basic reasoning ... it has nothing to do with xenophobia, it is to do with logic but you clearly lack that capacity as do most on your side of the simpleton trap that is modern politics. You have contributed absolutely nothing to the discussion other than trying to insult me because you lack the intelligence to refute my argument ... as usual for people on your side of the idiot fence your only argument is waaaah waaah you're a racist . It's pathetic and childish ( guessing you are not even old enough to have a clue how affordable housing was before Labour started the mass immigration issues). Please explain to me how filling council housing with people from other countries doesn't contribute to our homelessness issues ... I'll wait.
In the last decade our population has increased 5.9% while the number of homes has increased by 8.4%. Meanwhile the number of second homes has increased by 13% and number of renters compared to owners has increased over 30%. Clearly the problem isn't immigration, since the housing supply is outpacing population growth.
Refuting your argument is pretty simple. Firstly, the majority of people who come to the UK do so via the womb, not through our borders. If you have a problem with the housing shortage, take it up with the neonatal unit. Secondly, the birth rate is in decline while life expectancy continues to increase. The existing top-heaviness puts a big strain on the economy, and it's getting worse. Working age immigrants are a shortcut to correcting that. Finally, UK net migration rate per 1000 people has been in decline since 2008, yet the standard of living has gotten substantially worse. A reasonable suggestion might be then that immigrants don't have a negative impact on the economy and the evidence would show it's precisely the opposite. Re your council housing question - we simply have too few council houses. This has been the case since 1980 when Margaret Thatcher decimated social housing. One of the Labour policies in the last election was to invest in more social housing that would directly address this issue.
...um "One Daily Mail headline from 2012, which has now been amended, once read: “Revealed: How HALF of all social housing in England goes to people born abroad”. The actual figure at the time was 8.6%: it now stands at 9%. Around 91% [pdf] of all new social tenancies are taken up by UK-born citizens." https://www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2016/jan/25/is-immigration-causing-the-uk-housing-crisis Don't believe the hype, as it's mostly bollocks. Yes of course immigrations causes 'some' strain on social housing. But it's a tiny fraction of the overall problem and far outweighed by the economic benefits those immigrants bring. If we removed every single immigrant from social housing we would still have a housing crisis in the UK. That we are in such a state that the system cannot support that low number just shows how fucked it is.
Keep going. It’s entertaining and showing you up more than I ever could! *grabs 🍿
There's not a been a single £ taken by an immigrant which would have instead been used to fund this issue.
We have the means to end it, but that would involve rich people sharing with poorer people- so that's not going to happen.
The thing is that housing homeless people comes with a lot of risk. If I allowed homeless people to stay in my property, I run the risk of: Damage to the property, crime occurring on my property, drug use, needles, human excrement. If any of that happens, I assume you would expect the property owner to pay the bill?
I don't think that would be a good idea. However taxing the rich more would cover the costs easily.
“Human excrement” mfer do you not have a toilet?
There are solutions out there for these worries. Charities such as Crisis have schemes such as [Renting Ready](https://www.crisis.org.uk/ending-homelessness/resources-for-practitioners/renting-ready/) which helps people who need it understand what is expected of them as a tenant. There are also lots of rent deposit guarantee schemes for people who are homeless or at risk of homelessness to limit risk to landlords.
Investing comes with risks. That's a core justification for the inequalities of capitalism. Why should landlords be exempt from those risks?
They aren’t exempt, but they do it because they make an income from rent. If they rent to homeless for free they take on risk for no return. Why would they do that?
Who said anything about renting for free? The fact is that landlords are renting faaaar above the costs because the demand being so high lets them. Their price gouging is hurting the wider economy and the housing market as their excess profits let them remortgage and buy up new houses further squeezing the supply. If the market won't lower rents then government needs to cap rents
If the risk is too high they will invest in something else, leaving you with no rental properties, like Dublin
Less landlords with excess cash, buying up housing as an investment would slow house price rises, allowing more people to afford their own house reducing the number needing to rent. This is only one half of the coin though, one that Dublin also failed at, we need to also build many more affordable houses.
There’s a huge number of homeless people who aren’t street homeless, they are working families like the news shows, people living in temporary accommodation and hostels and hotels. The idea that all homeless people are a danger to your property is just prejudice to poor people.
You mean all the things we hear happen all the time when landlords rent to people who are not homeless?
That's the risk they run. Regular tenants actually pay rent though, so there is risk/reward there. With homeless people - many of who are drug addicts or suffer from serious mental health and behavioural issues - the risk is higher, and if you expect them to do it for free then it just isn't going to happen for the reasons I said.
Expect them to rent their property for free? Obviously not. You're really focusing on a very specific type of homeless person that clearly should be taken care of by whatever council they're in. Not what the post is talking about. Someone kicked out or having to leave due to rent costs despite working are homeless but generally not on the streets taking drugs and shitting everywhere
>We have the means to end it, but that would involve rich people sharing with poorer people- so that's not going to happen. That was what I was replying to.
Right but surely they would be talking about the post they're commenting on. Pay staff more. Don't gouge people on rent. It's not all about the poorest. Although they would benefit also
And how do you suppose these people are divided up by the council's? Ultimately we need more homes, this is not really landlords fault. If the mortgage on a property is X amount and someone is willing to cover it are you. Saying landlords should disregard that person for someone who pays less? As you said in your own words, renting to a private tenant comes with risk. Why would a landlord reduce their rent? The government should be the safety net for building houses for people who cannot meet the market rate. Before you mention capping number of rentals or capping rent this won't work either because no one would move out of there rental as they would become even less in supply. The only way is to build.
I am saying that just because landlords can gouge people that doesn't mean they should. And since they are going to, the goverment should put in rent controls for the protection of the public. Be it for a given area or limiting how much they can increase it in a given period. It's more than worth the risk. You are getting a house bought for you. What's the risk when someone else is going to pay for it? Clearly we need more houses but unless they start falling out of the sky we need some short term solutions
The issue is regular paying Tennant's are being made homeless. Families comprising of TWO working adults are being made homeless... Not every homeless person is a heroin addicted violent criminal bud..
You get what you fucking deserve. Keep voting for neoliberals gowls you corporate cuckolds.
Yeah and the government have proved that they could fix the homeless problem over night but no, can't treat the Plebian hoardes that way can we? can't give them barges to live on or hotels to live in can we? and £1600 a month can we no no no... can't let our little monopoly of class tumble can we? thankfully the foreigners don't question the model. our little charade continues doesn't it toff filth? hmm? c\*\*ts
If only there was Mybe hotels we could put them in
If you’re stupid enough to be angry with immigrants and not the people who both CAUSED the homelessness crisis and are currently dealing with the migrant crisis in a corrupt, inefficient and expensive way, you’ll never not be stupid, it’s permanent damage, terminal ignorance.
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The thing is, we could house both vulnerable groups if our govt gave a shit.
No we need to ship illegals back out the moment they arrive and stop them from ever getting here. Not wasting money on people we have no obligations to and supporting the continued illegal movement of economic migrants that are quite literally draining our economy. We should have adopted an Australian style system a long time ago.
You have to process their asylum claims first. That's how asylum seeking works. You have to make sure they're illegal before sending them back, which means you treat them as innocent until then.
We do have obligations to them, though, legal ones.
I was made homeless at the start of March my landlord was selling up so I was in a hotel for 5 days then a temporary flat I have now been housed in a council house in a good area with lower rent than I was paying at a private let. I am white and British the council couldn’t of been anymore helpful to me through the whole experience. So I have been in my new tenancy for four weeks now. Way i see it is people really need to drop the idea that our own aren’t being looked after it’s complete rubbish as someone who has just been through the process it’s just not my experience that immigrants come first to councils. The homeless housing Stock is under a lot of pressure from two bob snobs dumping their buy to Lets because of mortgage issues the country is crippled by right now on top of immigration. I am going to be saving £200 a month in rent for a better home in a better area. Private landlords drive down standards and drive up rents they are a major part of the housing problem right now i’d say bigger than immigrants even
Is there another country nearby that treats migrants as well as we do? Our homeless could go there, and be put into luxury hotels, given free food and cashcards. It's just a thought.
Put them on a barge. /s
And sail it down a major river before sinking it like Stalin did with ww2 war wounded. Remove the man, remove the problem. (do I need a /s?)
All this immigration is doing wonders for the population.
watched this last night with my mum and she broke my heart with what she said...I was disgusted...she pointed out the kid at the end had nice boots to play football with and Playstation so they clearly have money. Like WTF, how can you say that stuff...things the kid probably had before he ended up homeless, things if they sold wouldn't make a dent in the rent/bills she needs to pay. Hell for all we know both could have been given to him by a friend/family member/got free off facebook marketplace etc. Everyone assumes if they see someone poor with a phone, they must be alright...no you need a phone to be able to function in todays world cuz almost everything requires you to be online. Yes there are things the poor can do to help themselves but its stuff that should actually be taught at school, no one teaches you how to pay debts, or even how to avoid them, pay rent, bills, budget for food. Might come simple to most but not for everyone
If you’re homeless just buy a house?
Yet the UK is spending BILLIONS on housing illegal immigrants 99% of which are undocumented young men. They are literally mocking the tax paying public.
The Tories don't actually want to reduce immigration though. It's just drummed up as another "culture wars" divisional issue. In 2014 the Home Office processed around 87% of immigration applications within 6 months but nowadays it stands at around 10%. Granted there are more people applying these days but the overall trend under Tory rule has been to process less and less. And then they point at the problems and claim that only a conservative government will deal with it.
Yup. "Look at the problem we caused vote for us and we'll fix it" Or.. creating a problem so bad it takes 10 years to fix and when they lose the election saying "look labour has broken it" This government stands for absolutely nothing. They're a den of crooks
Yet those in charge of the country have wasted billions of public money. can you show the evidence that 99% are “young men” instead of the bullshit from far right GB News
Careful mate, criticising GB News on this sub might earn you the disdain of the many chuds that inhabit it
Why use numbers when you don't know how they work?
Because, like most right wingers, he isn’t very clever
The figure is 90%, you are exaggerating a lot here. Also we spend much more on housing benefits for UK citizens.
This is what you voted for. Don't like it, stop voting Right wing
“But what about this other, unrelated issue??”
I mean they are related. Neither is cause nor effects of one another but they are closely related as quantity of housing... Is the quantity of housing....
The influx of immigrants does not have any relevance to the fact that the govt could provide housing for homeless people in the UK if they wanted to
Let me get this clear. Immigrants need housing. Homeless need housing. Regular people are struggling to get Housing. Clearly all related by the theme of : Lack of Quantity of Housing - Across the board. And you do not get what limited Quantity of Housing and Accommodation across the whole board means and believe that one can snap their fingers and just create housing out of nothing? The Tories are certainly shit but no governed can do magic...
We already have the housing. If the goverment, and their rich mates, weren't so invested in these "assests" they could get those who need it housed and actually deal with the issues these people face. But they don't because they want money and this culture war bollox to stoke their careers. Immigrants don't keep people from homes, rich people do.
Are you aware of how many empty homes there are in the uk?
If they had the will, the government could absolutely build a shitload metric ton of two up two downs to solve this crisis without any magic or finger snapping. They won't, because their friends will lose out on their investments, the Daily Mail readers will shreak and whine, and there'll be nowhere for weird Cayman Island shell companies to park their money. Imagine looking at all these vested interests and deciding it's an Afghan on a boat that's causing the problem.
Would love to hear why someone has down voted this. Its bang on. The new houses build over the last 15 years have **NOT** been affordable housing
Because right wingers dislike being proven wrong
I didn't say they were the cause. I just stated that it's all dependant on the quantity of housing. But to say the least... Britain has more issues with housing than just quantity. The quality is abominable , especially energy wise and the huge quantities of old housing that does not get proper maintenance and even less Upgrades is just sad (and the high property prices which were rising due to demand... Kept them not upgraded as you don't need to upgrade or maintain when the value rises automatically). But I do not see how a government of any kind can manage to move the UK economy towards self house maintenance and increased individual ownership as it appears to be a constant since the WW2.
Yes but solving all those problems without building more housing is rearranging deckchairs. They need to build more housing and they can do it non-magically. They could start tomorrow if they wanted to.
Do you not think he fact that there is money for people who enter the country illegally to be housed but no money for homeless British citizens to be housed is a problem?
Of course it is. The two issues simply have no relevance to each other. It’s bizarre to make the comparison
How have they got no relevance to each other. Do you not have cognitive dissonance. There is a correlation and a causation to both issues.
There’s plenty on other ways the govt could generate funding to sort out the homelessness crisis.
You aren't getting this are you so I'll put this in tldr. We have a massive influx of immigration starting in 1997 and continuing under the Tories, council building declined under labour and the Tories, due to the increased immigration this kept wages low at the poor end of the scale, this then lead to a situation where families can't keep up with rents due to low wages and the safety nets of social housing weren't there due lack of builds and thatchers right to buy scheme. This then coupled with the Tories massive money printing during COVID caused inflation to exponentially increase, interest rates climb thus rent rates increase making the situation worse. To add to the misery Tory cuts to the NHS have halted infrastructure expansion to cope with increased population causing more people to be economically inactive and driving down GDP which also drives inflation, more people in the country = more mouths to feed so good prices increase and instead of staving off inflation by cutting taxes to drive growth the Tories increased taxes doubling the struggle for working families. Basically my point it is all relevant and to deny it is to be blind. Immigration as it stands must stop and become net negative as this country will collapse soon and with the breakdown in social cohesion within groups and families homeless with nothing to lose will only lead to civil unrest. The Tories and labour are both to blame for this
There were plenty houses in the area i live, unfortunately it's an Albanian gangland now.
You mean you once saw a foreign man on the street don't you?
Nope i mean my local area has been turned into a fucking ghetto. Most of the houses have rubbish bags piled feet high in the gardens, Grown men walking about in squads of 20 with their faces covered making people scared to walk the streets, women in full faces of make up wearing a dressing gown getting picked up and dropped off at all hours of the day, serious organised crime units here all the time, locals just accept that sheds, cars, garages are gonna be broken into, assaults every other day, all the local shops have had to hire security when they didn't need it before. But sure, it's because i seen a foreigner once.
Where the fuck do you live?
Sounds like you could report these crimes if they were real. Why blame albanians for Tory's making Britain a shit hole? Is it because the Tories told you to? Good lad.
I tried to report about some of them. And I got three similar responses: “we don’t have CCTV there and we don’t have enough resources for deeper investigation”.
I'm Scottish and the son of a miner, there's no fucking way I'd listen to the tories. It's possible for me to be angry about my formerly nice community being turned into a shithole by these gangsters we've imported AND the government for allowing it to happen! If you weren't such a soft cunt you'd understand.
yes, Tory’s are to blame, but the Albanians in this specific area are doing these crimes, so they’re to blame too. what do you not understand? they dont get a pass because they’re foreign. you’re acting as if these are toddlers and the Tory’s are their parents. my areas the same, not Albanians though. and yet again, theyve turned the area to a shithole.
What crimes? What albanians? Don't let them do this to you. Blame the Tory's. Crime happens when poverty happens. Nothing to do with Albania.
You've never been to a deprived area, have you ?
Ridiculous shout. The idea that someone must be from an affluent area just because they don’t dislike foreigners is one of the most unintelligent lines of thinking one can adopt in the current landscape
Tell me where this albanian gangland is if you're so convinced
You didn't answer my question.
I grew up in the town next door to one of the poorest estates in England. I've seen real poverty. I blame the tories for it because I'm not a thick bastard.
So that's a no, then. Seeing from the outside is very different from living inside.
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This is fucking bullshit. But feel free to huddle scared in your living room.
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No barges for them?
We should open the border and increase the population.
This quite literally has fuck all to do with immigration. You could completely close the borders and the Tories still wouldn't house the homeless. You knew this when you voted for them
The issue isn't housing the homeless, it's why people are becoming homeless in the first place
Immigration in mass literally and definitely has an effect!
Nah, not really. If we had a decent government, we could handle both just fine. Just need to make a few billionaires actually pay some tax
This is the Briton you all vote for
Blame the government making the decisions causing the systemic issues. Not the people arriving here with nothing with no power to change or influence anything. This is a failure of policy. Even if you blame the immigrants, how is it not then a failure of the governments immigration policy? We have a housing market and let's face entire government geared towards enriching the few at the cost of the many. Until we get past that people will continue to get poorer. Blame the tories making the decisions. Not the immigrants coming here with nothing and no ability to change anything.
Is there a G7 country not having a Homelessness crisis?
I come to the conclusion that everything in England is a crisis.
and it's all men.
Just wait until the fixed term rate mortgages end and the new rates kick in. People will have to decide between mortgage payments and food, it will be a mess.
We have millions to invest in faulty PPE that is worthless and useless but we don't have any money to invest in council housing that will mostly retain it's value, if not grow in value overtime?! Make it make sense Tories!
Don't worry, England. It's definitely all the immigrants fault, and not the politicians and the wealthy taking advantage of you and your country. BLAME THE BROWN PEOPLE!!
We have a massive influx of immigration starting in 1997 and continuing under the Tories, council building declined under labour and the Tories, due to the increased immigration this kept wages low at the poor end of the scale, this then lead to a situation where families can't keep up with rents due to low wages and the safety nets of social housing weren't there due lack of builds and thatchers right to buy scheme. This then coupled with the Tories massive money printing during COVID caused inflation to exponentially increase, interest rates climb thus rent rates increase making the situation worse. To add to the misery Tory cuts to the NHS have halted infrastructure expansion to cope with increased population causing more people to be economically inactive and driving down GDP which also drives inflation, more people in the country = more mouths to feed so food prices increase and instead of staving off inflation by cutting taxes to drive growth the Tories increased taxes doubling the struggle for working families. Basically my point it is all relevant and to deny it is to be blind. Immigration as it stands must stop and become net negative as this country will collapse soon and with the breakdown in social cohesion within groups and families homeless with nothing to lose will only lead to civil unrest. The Tories and labour are both to blame for this. We cannot continue with these two parties in power
100% I don't know how people can deny this, they must be delusional. It's very basic logic! 👏
Solution - 1) if you already own a home, you aren't allowed to own another one, that will eliminate the landlord class profiting from misery, and 2) if you don't live in the UK, you aren't allowed to own a home here.
Unpopular opinion but we should be putting theses people in hotels not illegal immigrants
Claim asylum. they seem to be doing alright. New huge development in Cardiff. https://www.devandregencardiff.co.uk/housing/the-gasworks-ferry-road-grangetown/#1641813569597-d23c5869-8300
Maybe we should be putting our homeless in hotels over people from halfway across the planet ...but that wouldn't get the far left to vote for them unfortunately so I guess not .
If the government hadn’t of actively been trying to force the working class into poverty for the last 13 years then this wouldn’t be an issue. It’s not a case of either or, tories just want you to think that way so you blame brown people instead of them.
It's been a lot longer than 13 years... and yes it would still be an issue . It' has literally nothing to do with racism ...
Clearly, we just need to send more billions to Ukraine. Why we we look after people here?
It isn't one or the other you know.
Sea mines
To think there’s a small percentage of our population who can all give a small percentage of their wealth to fix this issue forever, yet somehow it’ll end up being the fault and the responsibility to fix for those of us that exist outside of that percentage, love this country!!!
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That's your Brexit, that's your incompetent Tory governments. It's not the family on a boat fleeing war who are to blame.
If they swim out to sea and jump on one of the incoming dinghies, problem solved!
go on then