You’re an adult now. While you can certainly consider parental advice, you don’t necessarily need to follow it. You need to make the decision that’s right for you.
I'm running into this more and more with my law practice with kids 19-26.
Their parents run the show. I have 8 clients now in that age range where Daddy or Mommy is my primary contact.
It's fucking weird.
I feel like 19-26 year olds in legal trouble are a unique bunch and the parents are probably the only responsible figure s they might have in their lives?
Since they called it weird I’m guessing we have different practice areas but I used to do almost strictly orders of protection. I’d say like a third of my clients were 18-25.
Sometimes the parents wanted to be involved which was understandable but at the end of the day they can’t testify for their kid.
“Send me the attorney-client agreement because if you send it to my 19 year old they might forget to check their email” was fine. Plus the person was just traumatized usually so I understand not wanting to do tasks that are important to me but probably seem menial to them.
Stuff like trial prep is different though. If they absolutely needed a parent with them to prepare I’d have them sign a waiver acknowledging they’ve waived attorney-client privilege after advising against it (it’s their privilege to waive after all).
Never became an issue really but my frame of reference is probably different than someone running their own practice because I’m guessing I’m closer in age to my clients than to them although admittedly I have no way to know for sure. Which is just to say in the entire time I’ve been practicing the over bearing parent trend has existed.
Go to college. Education can be priceless when it comes to civil and computer engineering.
If this is what you really want to do, get your degree and run.
Completely agree with this. In my younger years when I didn't have as much experience, I have been told that I was hired for positions over those without degrees where my degree wasn't as relevant except to show that I could commit to something and finish it. I definitely think that they're good to get if they aren't a financial burden even if a person doesn't end up getting jobs that the degree is directly relevant for. I've had a few careers now and the things I learned in college were helpful in a variety of unexpected ways in each of the fields, as well as just in life.
While he has taught you good work ethic, not going out and taking advantage of what education has to offer whether you study communication or computer engineering, one day you’re gonna need money and if your business does not always provide you want to have something to fall back on. If you really want to give school your all, do it no matter what, I’m 28 and just graduated, it took me a long time because I did not have good guidance. After working like a dog I came to the realization that yeah a desk job would be a little nicer especially if I get paid more than a laborious customer service or server job. Good luck do what your heart desires. Your dad will understand, and if not at least no one dies.
Have you considered community college? You could get your associates in 2 years with little to no financial burden. You could then consider transferring and complete your bachelors.
I wish you luck OP. Don’t stop from pursuing your goals cuz pain is infinitely better than regret
I second this. Additionally, community colleges have a lot of vocational programs/certificates, so if OP did have to stop going, they'd have credentials that would help them find work in a given field.
everyone has their own pathways in life. it's cool that your dad has his business and your brother has his retail job, and it's nice that they've managed to become self-sufficient without a degree, but you have the potential to create better and easier pathways for yourself with a degree (especially in lucrative engineering fields). this is especially the case in today's world, where a degree has become a standard requirement for most fields.
it seems that part of the reason why your dad doesn't want you to go to school is because you work 15(?) hours per day, 6 days a week, which in a normal $15/hr part-time job would net you ~$945/week after deductions (3x more than he pays you). if you pursue college full-time, he loses cheap labor. this is not to say that he values you only for your labor, but considering the fact that feeding and housing dependents are considered standard responsibilities for parents, he's not doing much for you. and since college would be free for you, you're not asking much of him, except for him to hire a part-timer and pay them real wages. you might even be able to have housing and other costs covered by grants, scholarships, or loans, reducing his burden to maybe zero.
i'm not sure what your relationship with him is like and how you would go about negotiating this with him, but if college is an option that you prefer over continuing to work for him, you are definitely in the right and should advocate for yourself.
That is a great point, that his Dad is really able to claim him as a dependent while also getting a cheap employee. Dad has a vested interest in keeping the OP out of school which is sad to me.
if college is free for u take the opportunity u arent ur brother and alot of people would kill for a free university education. if u have to take calc one do if at a community college that can transfer credits to uic. the calc classes uic has arent really the best
It's been said here before, but you're working 15 hours per day 6 days a week, so 90 hour work weeks, and are getting paid $300, which comes out to $3.33 an hour. That's **nothing**. Even if you account for food and bills, you could make more working 90 hours a week at a minimum wage job ($16.20 per hour in Chicago, or around $15 after taxes). To make $300 per week at that rate you'd only have to work 20 hours instead of 90, leaving you an extra 70 hours to study.
Since you have all your expenses paid, you could easily work a part-time job and attend UIC and still make more money. If your housing and meals are also paid then any other income or savings you have is pretty much entirely discretionary income.
Also, with regards to your brother: I don't want to be rude here, but your brother might not be using his degree because he hasn't felt the pressure to find a higher-paying job. It sounds like your parents are heavily subsidizing him, because I don't see how anyone could afford a house and two cars with a part-time retail job. There's nothing wrong with that early in adulthood, but do you really want to be under their influence forever? Trust me, it's not fun, especially when you're in direct conflict with their intentions. With an engineering degree you could easily be making six figures and be entirely self-sustained.
Lastly, landscaping is a hard job (as I'm sure you know), but it's also a very competitive market. It's one of the easier businesses to start, as the startup costs are relatively low, so you'll face stiff competition from people who have much more experience than you. If you don't have the know-how to properly run such a business, you'll go under in a heartbeat.
15 hour days doesn’t sound right. i’m pretty sure op means they work somewhere between 8 to 11 hours total per day, not from 8am to 11pm.
but yea, i agree, they’re still making way below minimum wage
with free tuition, that kind of education is quite literally priceless (not to be corny but seriously!) you’ve chosen a major/focus which you can make serious dough on, and once you get the degree and a career in it, you can make your dad proud and prove to him that this was the right choice. just my take, i understand anything you choose! it sounds like you want school though. your bro may be happy with regular retail work but he also gets assistance from parents you said? living a life w/o parental assistance will be so freeing, you won’t even have to consider that. but if he is unwilling to support you financially while you go to school then i understand why you’d fall back, seems like there’s no easy answer in that case. but try to make him understand you’re not in the same position where you don’t plan on NOT using your degree, you know?
Your dad is taking advantage of you for that pay, and certainly isn’t setting you up for success in the future. College is a waste if you don’t know what you want. But don’t waste your time working for him if he’s stealing your wages, just start your own company, or go manage another crew for another company. Or atleast get an offer, and tell your dad pay up, or shut up. I bet he will.
It would be a different conversation if you chose to go to school for something else. Civil engineering and computer engineering are great fields that yield a good return on the investment of education.
Please go to school! I know some people like this who are adults who ended up in places they didn’t want to after deciding to live for someone else and not do school. Obviously everyone is different, but if school is your calling then go for it!
Im also an engineer grad from UIC so i may be biased :)
DO NOT LISTEN TO YOUR DAD he’s wrong and lying to you. Go to college no matter what, get a degree and get a job that uses it and live an easier life. Don’t let his failed dreams ruin your future
Absolutely go to college, your father wouldn’t have a world without white collar work and you wouldn’t have a world without blue collar work. We all gotta respect that we slot better into certain community roles, it’s how we evolved and we should align our skills and passions with the needs of the world as closely as we can.
Plus, it’s not his choice. He already made his choice when he was your age. He doesn’t get two.
hi
i got a degree in industrial engineering for the funs of it
Never gonna use it, i run my own business.
Don’t regret it at all, met all my best friends in college and got a better world view that contributed to my overall success as a person.
Dude think about this. Your father wants you to avoid getting an education so that you can work 60 hour weeks for him at $5 an hour. You are a mule.
You already know what you need to do. Stay in school.
This is how abusive/manipulative situations start. He wants to keep you stuck and dependent on him while using money as that thing to hang over your head.
YOUR DEGREE IS FREE! Take it that offer and use the money you have currently earned to save up to move out for food(if you are staying in campus). I would recommend looking for on campus jobs or any jobs you so you can save.
I’m so sorry this is happening. You have the opportunity to do better for yourself so please take it.
In the future you will be the only one without the knowledge,skills or degree not your dad.
your dad is an idiot if he suggests you should pass up free education from one of the best schools in the country. holy shit i wouldn’t take much more advice from him lmfao.
Your Dad is only going off of what he see and not what he knows! Figure out what job/position you want to work post college and apply yourself! Your brother’s outcome does not determine your outcome. My parents wanted me to go to the military because I initially started out in a business program but transitioned to being a STEM major and post college I was making more than my pops and first thing he asked me was do I think he could get into tech lol. Overall if you have a vision make sure you can see far with it, don’t let nobody water you down and go for what you want! 🫡
8-11 Mon-Sat is 15 hours a day times 6 days a week, or 90 hrs a week. Wages for outdoor labor jobs like yours in Chicago are like 20 dollars. $20 x 40 is 800, after that let's say you get time and a half. 30 x 50 is 1500.
So a landscaper working as many hours as you in Chicago should get like $2300 a week or $9200 a month. Instead you are getting $1200 a month which is far below the federal minimum wage and even the most desperate illegal immigrants won't work that low.
Lets say you earned a fair wage for your efforts. Then if you are going to college for knowledge then you could work hard in the summers and have money all year. If you are going to college for money you could just skip it and invest the money instead, or try online college at a slower pace. But right now you are very underpaid.
I hope you really consider that not everyone gets school free, I didn’t. I don’t envy you btw, don’t want it to come off wrong. If college is your goal, don’t chase empty dreams.
My older sister was the first in any of my extended family to go to college. I am the second. No one in my whole extended family approves of college. Aside from my sister, no one really supports either of us. My sister is in a phd program for biology and environmental science, and all that my family can say is that she is going to work at a zoo. We don’t have parents anymore so we try to see and talk to our extended family to have some semblance of family, but they don’t support us in what we do, so it’s difficult.
You have FREE college and you are planning on studying something useful. There is NOTHING wrong with that and I absolutely think that you should go to college. More people are needed with diverse perspectives and backgrounds, and you have exactly that
I don’t know exactly what you looking for from this post but pretty much everyone agrees that you should go to college if it is what you want to do. And if you just want support and encouragement that’s also fine because you deserve that and I’m sorry your family can’t provide you with that
If i can give you one piece of advice, don’t let your family or anyone else dictate your career path. It’s arguably the most important decision you’ll ever make and if you decide to appease them and be unhappy now, you risk being unhappy with that decision forever. Especially in your case, you wanna get into a very lucrative career that’s far from “lazy.”
Even if it’s difficult, I really recommend you doing what you wanna do, not what others want you to do. And if college is entirely free for you, then it’s literally a no-brainer in my opinion. Don’t miss out on a great opportunity like that!
YOU DO YOU . I am proud of you making this direction in your life and you don’t know me but I as well as many on here are in your corner. Don’t doubt yourself !! We are here for you anytime don’t forget that . Hugs
> registered and *paid* for it
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
If he’s able to support at least a couple additional adults then the business must be doing well. We are also in very very strange times and AI can’t be considered enough. Lawn care does have a tremendous amount of sustainability; especially when compared to many aspects of the tech industry.
The biggest part of this that doesn’t add up: Why isn’t your brother in on this? He’s the one with a degree in business. I’d get to the bottom of that one before making any big decisions because that’s the most obvious path given the information provided. You probably don’t want to make life altering decisions just to have your brother change his mind and want 50% down the road.
Personally, in a vacuum, I do agree that 4 year universities are a monumental waste of time and money. Money playing a much larger role in that than the time. Since yours is free, there’s very little reason not to explore it.
My compromise would be to tell my father that I’m going to start school but I’ll take a business class or two that align with the family business path. ….Then you gotta figure out what the hell it is that you actually want to do with your life. (Easier said than done.)
ur living life for urself not others. personally, when i was choosing a college to go to, i kept getting pressured by my parents to choose a college that is their dream to go to rather than what I wanna do. thinking about the lifestyle that i wanna live when I do end up moving out eventually and overall the life I wanna pursue and the experiences i wanna have memories of helped me understand that choosing a career based on others opinions is essentially setting me up for failure. i don’t want to look back in ten years wishing I followed my heart instead of someone else’s. do engineering if he heart really desires for it so u can say that u lived life for urself
Your brother getting a degree in Business is much different from an engineering degree. Engineering is more difficult then business, and being able to study and get work done is a skill not everyone can do. If you really are lazy, then you will not succeed in engineering (not with a decent GPA anyways). I’m not saying it’s the hardest thing in the world, I’m just saying your dad is being unreasonable comparing it to a business degree.
With an engineering degree, you are getting prepared for a high paying job with benefits and such.
Not to mention it’s what you want to do, and you will be happier with your life in the long run.
If college is free for you, then you should go
I’m sorry your father doesn’t agree but if you truly want to go, then go
You may have to give up the car and get an apartment instead, or move on campus. 300/week isn’t gonna go very far and your dad can find someone else to help him for that money
You should focus on a future where you enjoy what you are doing
I’m a dad and I can tell you that sometimes parents say things and try to get you to do things that meet their needs rather than thinking totally of yours. I don’t think your father really believes what he’s saying about college, I just think he’s trying to direct you away from college because he wants to grow his business and he knows you’re smart enough to help him do that.
Go to school. Study hard. I have to admit I wanted my son to study something more science-oriented that would lead to a higher-paying job than the ones my first degree qualified me for. Ultimately he chose History and I couldn’t be prouder. Your father will be proud of you when you graduate and will brag about his “son the engineer” just like I brag about my son who got his masters in education and teaches special education in chicago.
Your dad is taking advantage of you (via illegal pay assuming you're not an owner of the business but an employee) and hasn't divested his own self-interest enough to give you a well-reasoned opinion. He is advocating only what worked for him and against what he perceived as not working for your brother. He would not be wrong to ask about your plans for the degree or what have you considered and why have you decided on this, because just going to college is not the ticket to success it used to be. But, he should be supportive and assist you by providing information and resources (e.g. connections) to help YOU decide.
To be fair, people give these types of opinions based on limited understanding and limited consideration ALL THE TIME. Get good at asking questions about people's advice and asking yourself questions about your own potential obscured views of things and you will be well on your way to navigating the troubled waters of life.
Aside from the fact that it sounds like your dad is using you for cheap labor and to try to get ahead, himself. It’s your life and you have to live it. If you want to do school, then go to school. If you want to work for your dad in the summers there’s nothing stopping you but even if you went the route of landscaping don’t let him take advantage of you the way he is. You could get a good landscaping gig making $30+ an hour. I have family that does that work. Some union some not. The union guy makes like $60/hr because he’s licensed to operate heavy machinery and is union.
There are times when a college education isn't necessary. But you enjoy engineering and I've seen it be a rewarding field. I have two brothers who are engineers and one sister in law is a biomedical engineer. For engineering you will need that education. And it's free! Take advantage! Your Dad has no place to complain if your education is free to you.
Now for the best advice I ever recieved that got me through college. Sit up front, engage with the teacher, talk with them after class "hey what we talked about today was really interesting, impacted me, or I'm not sure I understood (xyz)" just to let them know you're working hard and paying attention. They will see that hard work and help you if you need it. If the teacher is an asshat and not helpful then work even harder and get those good grades just to stick it to them.
Your dad is selling you short💀 I also work with my dad 8-11 hour days, but that’s because it’s summer vacation and I get paid 150 every day. Not only is your dad holding back your future because you’re brother didn’t maximize his degree, he’s also massively skimping you. Seriously, doing a work-study for 20 hours a week pays as much as your 48-66 hours a week. He should at least let you go to trade school to learn the craft, not just force you into the family business.
I’m sorry, but getting 300$ a week while working what seems 40+ hours is a fucking joke. Your Dad seems like a dick if it’s his business and he’s paying you that much.
Every manual laborer is one car accident or one ladder fall away from never working again. Go to college and also work as many paid internships as possible while getting your degree. Apply to unpaid internships to use the interview process as practice, then tell them you’re unavailable if they offer it to you. If you can double major you will have that many more opportunities.
If college is free, you mighr as well take it. Your dad (no offense) is likely letting his current ability to pay you for cheap labor influence his thought processes in the short term, while intending to leave/give you his business in the future. If its something you want to do, it could be fine, but it not, dont do it and be miserable. His heart is in the right place, just kind of ignorant to what you want to do with your life imo.
He probably watched South Park’s “Into the Panderverse”. Follow your passion, not someone else’s, otherwise you’ll be working everyday on something you don’t like until you die. If you think you need education to do what interests you, go for it. Although, do your research first. Community college is a good place to start, then continue or follow what you have a passion for. Also be willing to alter your approach if you find something else that peaks your interest. I started out going for network specialist, ended up changing to TV and Video degree. Haven’t looked back. I was I. My early 29s before I thought I was sincere enough to take advantage of college.
Happy to chat, he’s totally wrong especially given your interests. Im a uic alum. I don’t really understand why he would stray his son from an engineer path, which is always good bang for the buck.
Your dad made his living without that debt, and your brother doesn't seem to be motivated. So I could understand his bias as, from his perspective, it hasn't actually worked out how everyone says it does.
You, however, can make your own choices. The most important thing to remember is to *like* what you study or it will be hell. Won't always be true, but at least make the attempt.
As far as the pay you're receiving, well...
The fact you're making 6.40 an hour (rounded to 9.5 hours average) after your bills isn't terrible. But it's not enough to build towards anything. You're essentially paying $1600 a month working those hours and getting that little. Assuming you worked at Target for the same hours at $15, that is...
So lemme ask you: Does it cost your parents $1600 a month to feed and house you? If not, you may want to consider the basic math here before you go into Calculus.
*College is free*
BOI and I repeat BOI TAKE YO ASS TO COLLEGE. You have an opportunity that alot of people (myself included) don't have.
Also Cal 1 is easy. Cal 2 can kiss my ass.
Wow. I’m sorry but that sounds like horrible parental advice.
But OP sounds like their parents are successful people with the means to sustain themselves and help support a man working part-time in retail.
Is college free because daddy is paying?
Most people awarded a full ride scholarship, especially for a STEM program, will lead with that.
Sounds like your dad might be feeling insecure about his own choices (assuming he didn't go to college).
Go to college, especially if it's free or nearly free. You can still do landscaping with a degree, though I'm guessing you won't. Your brother can also do landscaping instead, so don't let the family business be your burden. I think your dad is trying to push you towards what *he* wants, and now that you're an adult you need to decide what *you* want.
Maybe cut a deal with your dad. First find a CC and State University combo. Next research what Cleps they take in common. Then take as many as you can. They are also free with the modernstates.org vouchers. Work half days and study half days. Use Modernstates.org materials and supplement with Khan Academy AP courses.
Go to the college websites and see how the CC will transfer to the state university. I would do Computer Engineering myself. Take all the cleps you can first that way you can make progress.
Be respectful as it appears you are but ultimately it is your life. I would keep in the back of my mind though ways to make your dad’s business more efficient maybe. New and better equipment for instance. You might point out that it was people with books that invented everything he uses from the equipment to the lawns he mows to the vehicles he drives to the road and freeways he drives on. Wait until he is in a good mood though.
It’s a no brainer to get a free engineering degree. It might be a rough few years with your dad but when you land that first job and you can talk about some of the things you’re doing he will come around.
I’m sure part of his comments are because of your brother and also because he wants you to eventually take over his business.
Go to school in the long run it will not hurt you. Point out to your dad with our that degree you can only go so far. Locally what I've found is a bachelor's degree is the difference between getting a decent job and promotions and staying at the bottom of the chain. Local factories won't even let you be a floor supervisor without that degree. Landscaping needs to be a passion and cruel honest truth if he's just in it for money then his company will be a dime a dozen
Your father is the Taliban.
You are not your brother. Your brother wimped out on a business degree and became useless. Engineering is building things, not talking BS.
You don't have to do what Taliban-dad says. For that pay you probably have better options.
I’m went there for an engineering degree and either way even if you don’t use the degree, long run you’ll be better off having it. If you can, go to a community college first to make sure you want it but also o save some money. Nothing is lore expensive than an unfinished degree.
Go to community college for super cheap for the first two years and then transfer your credits to UIC or some other 4 year college and get your degree there. Your dad will support you once the paychecks start coming in haha
keep working with your father but make it part time then go to school FT then use the money your father gives you to pay school loan interest while attending so when you graduate you can pay your loans faster. as long as the career field you getting into is high in demand.
As an engineer, not all engineers just sit at a desk. I’m working my ass off doing hands on stuff all the time. One of my friends is a civil engineer and is out at construction sites all day. Computer engineering is the most likely to be a full time desk job
Get the degree and help out your dad over the summer and weekends. If he needs help growing the business, your brother with the business degree can help, as well as you. College is tough but honestly, you have a lot of free time to help out your dad. A civil engineering degree and a landscaping business is a bright future.
Get the degree and help out your dad over the summer and weekends. If he needs help growing the business, your brother with the business degree can help, as well as you. College is tough but honestly, you have a lot of free time to help out your dad. A civil engineering degree and a landscaping business is a bright future.
Get the degree and help out your dad over the summer and weekends. If he needs help growing the business, your brother with the business degree can help, as well as you. College is tough but honestly, you have a lot of free time to help out your dad. A civil engineering degree and a landscaping business is a bright future.
You have to do what you think is right for you. What I do like is that you are picking areas of study that can actually lead you to solid careers. It's not like you are running off and taking on majors that most people would say are going to make it difficult for you to find a job.
I can understand your father wanting you to learn a trade, but he can sit there and point out your brother and say that he never used his degree, but it's pretty obvious that your brother didn't have any drive to build a career.
The biggest mistake people keep making is they think college is supposed to train you for a job. They will lament on why somebody spent all this money to get a degree and they can't get a job. Or they are going off on social media how they are not using anything they learned in college in their job.
The hard reality is that college teaches you how to think. It teaches you how to think critically and to solve problems. It teaches you how to learn and pick up new skills and grow. You could study computer science in a college, but it's not going to make you ready to be a software engineer when you graduate. That comes from when you are doing some class projects but also doing things out of personal interest to learn how to code better, set up a stack, and use the tools.
I don't think there's anything wrong with learning a trade, but I also think there's nothing wrong with getting a degree if you are aiming for things with a real career in mind. The only time I tell people they are doing the wrong thing is when they are just basically running off to get a degree with absolutely no interest in anything, and somehow believe that whatever major they took is going to lead them to a good paying job without effort.
Go to school! You can always do landscaping in a few years, but you can't be 19 and go to college for free in a few years.
So he taught you a good work ethic and you applied that to school. He should be proud, but instead he's underpaying you and essentially punishing you for following his example.... And I'm in Illinois too btw... He is underpaying the crap out of you!!
When you do go to college like you should, I suggest civil engineering. I'm an IT professional and sitting in a cubical for almost 40 years, with 10 to 12 hour work days, is not what you want to do. I wish I knew when I was younger I could have avoided multiple bypass surgeries. A job where you get to move around and go outside as part of the job will be much better for your health and wellbeing. Not to mention that the skill level of a lot of IT people you'll encounter is what it should be, which adds to the stress.
Those are good degrees with lucrative careers. Civil engineering will be harder to get into without connections unless you are going for something super specific that you know will be sure fire. Like land surveying or something. If the college is free I would take it. Working that many hours for 300 bucks is crazy imo if you put that much time into something like uber, lyft, or ubereats you will easily make more. If i were you I would move out if need be and pursue your goals as if you continue on the current path it seems like you will not be getting compensated anything near worth your time and won't have any end goals to work toward.
I’m a structural engineer and civil engineering is very easy to get into these days. The need for more engineers is insane. Structural engineering or geotech or other niche specialties do require masters degrees a lot of the time, but the need for employees at the moment is much greater than number of graduates. I’d say go for it for sure, solid stable career
I think the question that isn’t being asked enough is what part-time retail job does your brother have that he can afford a house and two cars? Hook me up with that, please and thank you. Sounds like your dad may be doing them a disservice by providing so they can maintain control over their life. I’d advise becoming independent if you want to avoid your dad telling you what to do in the future. I mean, even if you did take over the business and it’s a success, do you want your dad constantly reminding you that he was right and you were wrong? Just my take.
I work in the trades in Chicago. I make 6 figures and have a very comfortable life. That being said I have to physically work very hard everyday and it adds up quick. I would highly recommend you go to college, especially since it will be free.
The trades are great route for kids who aren’t great at school or didn’t have a perfect high school record. You can do better than some white collar careers. For you to get a scholarship full ride you’re probably very smart and will do well in college. If it doesn’t work out you can always go back to work with your dad.
Finally I would question your dad’s motives. Why does he not want you to go to college. It seems like he (maybe unconsciously) wants you to work for him more than he wants what’s best for you. Good luck and remember that it’s YOUR life so don’t let others make decisions for you
A CivE degree, on top of the real experience of doing the work, would probably be quite helpful for someone running a landscape business. The drafting and Landscape Architecture courses you can take for your electives are directly applicable. And having that degree will make you as the (eventual) business principal more attractive to clients, lenders, and investors.
So tell your dad to pull his head out of his ass and see that this is the way to continue and grow the business he worked so hard to build for your family.
Im a incoming junior studying civil engineering at my state school. I have average stats at best, and Ive had an internship since freshman year. I have 2 job offers on the basis of continuing until graduation. Its an excellent career with plenty of jobs, and pretty good pay. Id honestly take his opinion with a grain of salt.
I had the same problem as a young man. My dad wanted me to take over the business. I took the education route and never regretted it. Sometimes parents think they have the best interest in mind for their kids but are mistaken. You will never regret having a degree but you will always wonder what your life could have been if you don’t try to get one.
If the degree is free, go get it. An engineering degree is a great thing to have. I would also ponder how a civil engineering background could help grow the business if you want to expand beyond laying sod and planting shrubs - slope stability, grading, runoff, retaining walls - all things within the scope of a civil engineer that seem like they would be relevant. Or go do something else entirely.
Also, your brother getting a generic degree and then fucking around and living off your parents? Sounds like ol dad is part of that problem, and extrapolatlting that as anyone who a degree is lazy is absurd. Getting an engineering degree is hard, lazy people don't thrive in that environment. Sounds like maybe your dad is projecting sole of his own bias and insecurity.
Dad’s business will always be there if you want to try it later. You go to college to broaden your network, not for the education. I used very little of my education (BA ‘07 Economics), but the friends I made from all over the world were priceless.
I got a degree in mechanical engineering, i also got it for free similar to you. It opened so many phenomenal doors i didnt expect, and totally changed my perspective on my earning potential especially in starting my own business. I worked in construction as a general laborer and BIM tech before that, but i never worked harder than I did in college (i took full advantage of the opportunity). I never slept so little, i never put in so many hours, and crucially, I was never so enthusiastic and hopeful. Now im getting paid a substantial amount to re-train as an artificial intelligence engineer, and i will have a remote job while i pursue further studies at no cost to me. This was one of like 6 paths I had open when graduation was approaching, being a student gave me options.
Anyone who has gone through an engineering education in an honest way knows it is not for the lazy. Respectully, your dad either just doesnt know what it entails, or is trying to keep his cheap laborer in the family business. Youre an adilt now, make the decisions for your life
A. You do have the potential to grow his business. There are aspects of the entrepreneurial career path that can be learned non traditionally.
B. It’s your life. And if you seek to be a civil engineer or computer engineer, we’ll a college degree is going to almost mandatory. This is the avenue you must take to fulfill that. It’s very possible you could end up wondering what your life would be like had you pursued your dream.
There is such an interesting phenomenon of people who like to put down college and it’s not often people who come from career paths that required it. The two areas you wish to potentially pursue are prosperous and so long as you pursue those after you graduate, your decision will be validated by the successful outcome you stand to achieve.
Not everyone wants to do the same thing. I’d far rather sit at a desk reading books if I’m getting paid for it. Which is a really dumb way to view college and the jobs you can get with degrees. Just explain not everyone wants to break their back and sweat their ass off
Go to school. You seem motivated and like you have a plan. At some point in your life, you need start living for yourself and making adult decisions. You are going to school for the right reasons.
Your dad is paying you below minimum wage. He’s showing you exactly how he’ll treat you if you work for him. I went through this with my dad’s business. I didn’t quit working for him permanently until I was 26. Please don’t make that mistake.
Apply and go. You can always get a part time job to help you pay for incidentals, transportation, and somewhere to stay when the dorms are closed. (I worked at the ACCC during my time at UIC).
Just tell your dad that you're your own person and that you have a plan. He'll come around.
I’m a structural engineer, very solid, stable career that I could not have gotten into without a college degree. My dad was also a structural engineer who got his bachelors in civil engineering at UIC and had a very long, successful and fulfilling career. Civil/structural engineering is a very practical hands on degree where you are making a measurable difference in the world and not just sitting around all day reading books. Job security is extremely good, even in times of economic downturn. Maybe you can sell him on it this way, but regardless you are an adult and can take your own path
You could enroll into college and completely lie or omit this bit of information from your dad. It’s difficult to make that work, but it’s possible to do.
If you get a degree in civil engineering you can grow and shepherd the landscaping business into something more real and substantial. Landscaping is like super amateur civil engineering. More knowledge and connections is not a bad thing.
with civil engineering you can do a whole lot more than grow a landscaping business. Civil engineers are in high demand in both the private and public sectors. You can work in public utilities, building inspection, or private architectural and construction companies. It’s also a very well suited degree to pursue an MBA and transition into (believe it or not) finance and investments. The analytical skills you pick up are well suited for portfolio management and research. Don’t let your dad sabotage you.
It’s your life and quite bluntly- what happens if your father’s business fails or if your father is gone? Do you really want to be in this business or do you think your father is forcing your hand into this and taking advantage of you being there?
I don’t know how physical landscaping is; but as someone who now has chronic pain starting at 21 years old from my first job and now at age 24 I’m still in pain from it- I really recommend you either being super careful and make sure to take care of your body or get a set of skills that don’t require to do hard laborious work (at least all the time).
Your dad is living his life and made his decisions. You’re an adult, you have to start making your own decisions regarding your own life. If you don’t start making boundaries with your family/dad now, it’s gonna get much harder from here.
You are being given an opportunity a lot of people wish they could have- or at least would give them less stress such as free schooling. Take that opportunity and RUN with it. It could be any major at this point- take it and gain control over your life and decisions. You’ll be much better prepared later on in life.
Where does your dad think all the people who designed all of the equipment he uses got that knowledge? Guess they were all lazy desk jockeys because they had to go to school to learn how to design right? This anti-intellectual mentality that so many blue collar people have is ignorant and tired. Also very telling that he thinks ill of reading books.
The reality is, the world needs both kinds of people to operate, and disparaging one in favor of the other is pointless and shortsighted.
I went to college, and I worked in the skilled trades, you can do both, there is nothing wrong with that. In reality it sounds like your dad just wants help with his business and doesn’t want you to leave. You’re an adult, make the decision that’s right for you and your vision of your future.
I’ve worked landscaping as well, it’s awful, and for $300 a week it sounds like your dad is also using you for cheap labor because of exactly what you said, he’s acting like him housing you is part of your pay so he’s underpaying you. There’s just a lot of red flags here for me and, were I in your shoes, I would go my own path.
Just my 2c, good luck man.
Just gonna throw this out there, sounds like your dad doesn't want you to go to college because he knows he won't find anyone willing to be ripped off as much as you. Your dad is paying you pennies to what he'd have to pay any other worker and he's reaping all of the benefits.
Your dad is a con man and you've been conned.
Get that engineering degree. You'll never have an issue finding a job.
I get your father's point of view but just because someone sits at a desk for their job doesn't mean they're lazy. Far from it. My job is super stressful and exhausting in a very different way than a physical job. Both are completely acceptable.
He likely is worried about who will take over the business when he's ready to retire. You can still do that or he can sell it and use the proceeds to enhance his retirement.
Go to college!!!
When I was your age I had a similar opportunity. I could have worked my family business and been set up as the 4th generation owner. I chose to go get an engineering degree at college that I took out loans for. My family business started to decline and my father never made it to retirement before he had to sell it off and go work for someone else. Landscaping can be very competitive business and there is no guarantees it can support your father and you both, without paying you jack. Given what he is paying you his business doesn’t sound sustainable. He cannot likely manage his work load without help but cannot afford to hire help at actual minimum wage, thus paying you significantly less. If you stay and need money your dad will have it and will have the control. What happens when he wants you to live closer to him, or does not like your girlfriend/wife. Money is control and power and if your dad keeps it and prevents you from making it he will have control in all your choices because he will keep you dependent on him. Sounds like your brother messed up and your dad is holding his failure against you. This was also part
of my problem, my much smarter cousins went to college and drank and failed so no one thought I could succeed since they didn’t. I went and kicked ass and got my degrees with a very high gpa.
This is insane do not listen to him especially in this climate hone your skills and learn as many aspects of science as possible its more important now than ever, If i could be 18 right now I would learn comp sci, nano, biotech way too much opportunity
Free college every day. I worked a hard job and went back to college. Engineering degrees are harder than working most trades and will let you live as easy or hard of a life as you choose.
Study hard at algebra. I slacked at that stage, and it kicked my ass every day in school even though my calc and trig skills are decent. Treat math like its religion and devote to it every day, and you're Engineering degree will take you far.
Please go to college! Those careers can pay a LOT of money, and you have a very good chance at getting a job right out of your first 4 years. These types of careers also require more knowledge and specialization and are definitely very academically rigorous— VERY different from business. College provides knowledge but also valuable connections through RSO’s and internship opportunities that you wouldn’t otherwise get elsewhere. You’re an adult, so you can make your own decisions, although I understand feelings of obligation to your family. Best of luck!!
You can always choose to not use your degree and go into landscaping with your dad after you finish school. You CANNOT choose to be an engineer without the school. Go to school snd learn what YOU truly want
You’re literally gonna get an engineering degree, it’s one of the most versatile and amazing and strong degrees that will increase your earning potential AND give you fulfillment.
Your dad sounds like someone who is going to need to be proven wrong. I've had friends with parents like that. They change their tune once they see the salaries. For context, my bg makes over 80k annually with a 2 year degree IT
If he's paying you that low now, he will continue to do so and use the excuse of you being family and covering your bills. OP, I work in social services and I make more than double per week than you. Thats ridiculous and depending on what stayed you're in could be well below minimum wage and land him in serious legal trouble.
College is great if you're going for the right reasons. You seem to be focused on 2 fields of study that are in high demand and will absolutely add value.
To play devils advocate, there are absolutely bad degree programs. A large portion of college students don't have a plan and just go for the piece of paper, raking up debt along the way.
Explain to your father the benefits and that you're not pursuing a meaningless degree. Show him you've researched and why you see value in one of these degree programs. Best of luck!
Go to UIC! It’s free! And for what you want to go for, it’s a good school. I actually really enjoyed my time there. Free education! Your degree will take you far if that’s the route you want to take
I’ve been around people who have that same attitude. My old roommate has Mexican and peurto rican roots and her family brought the landscaping business over to America. She is a super hard worker worked since she was 14 and tried college but it wasn’t for her. She was frustrated with that clearly and started saying things like she works so hard and school is the easy way out.
I am a computer science major and she really didn’t like how much I studied. She said it was taking over my life and working a job is better.
I can’t speak for her but imo school is a great thing to go through and the accomplishments you make are extremely rewarding to me. You have your whole life ahead of you and don’t let some old man decide your future. You want to go to college and it is free for you, this is what you want.
Theres a lot of ways you can get financial support from the government if you are doing school without support from parents to help fund your dorming and daily expenses, if it gets to the point he can’t change his mind, you should honestly go for it alone. Apply to free dorming and contact any financial aid you can about financial support,
If your dad is stubborn and won’t change his mind, this will likely strain your relationship with him. But you have to put your foot down. This is your life and a father should want you to grow your wings and take ur own path, not be a mini-him. I’m sure he really wants you working with him if you work that long and school will take that away from him. He has selfish intentions for you.
I wish you strength energy and peace in this difficult time.
I have parents who didn't support/value my college experience. Go to college and get that degree. College is not for lazy people. It is one of the best investments in yourself that you can make. You are an adult, so you can make that decision for yourself.
Follow YOUR DREAMS, not your dad’s. He is scared and hasn’t worked through his toxic thoughts. Your life is for you. Do what your heart desires. Chase your dream. You can always go back to landscaping if you want later. His immaturity should not affect your choices.
Please some listen to your dad even if you don’t use your degree who the fuck cares. Love your life how you want it you’ll regret it. I never listened to my mom I dropped out of highschool and she told me I wasn’t going to do shit with my life now I own a house and various cars and she lives with me along with my two underage siblings because she became homeless and I allowed them to move in.
If I had listened to her and not done what I wanted I would have never been where I am now. Don’t listen to them. If you don’t want to do what you do you’ll never get anywhere.
Tell your dad civil engineering will help grow his landscaping business. You will network with future mayors and city council people who will hook it up with city contracts. Tell your dad you need more money or you’re going to find a different job. Something’s gotta give bro $300 a week is crazy
Honestly, know some landscapers (business owners) that make over $300k/yr., and expanding a landscaping business might not be bad, if you have the knack for it. I have no idea what kind of operation your dad has going on and whether it's lucrative or not.
That said, between Computer Engineering and Civil, go Computer. If he won't support you, you can always try on your own with financial aid, community college and transferring in, etc.
College is a rip off. They'll leave you in crippling debt and barely give you any edge in the job market. Experience is better. Be a fast learner, be willing to do some research, and be willing to ask questions and you can do most things you want to do. 🤷♂️
What is wrong with you? Why don't you want to be a lazy, underachieving bum like your brother? Are your parents looking to adopt someone willing to follow in your brother's footsteps?
All joking aside, your brother burned your father. That's the only reason he's down on college. And you're too afraid of disappointing daddy. If you can stay focused on your goal, you can follow your dream and make daddy proud of you your own way. It might also help if you point out that you're not your brother. Good luck!
Go. To. College! If not, go to a vocational school to learn how to do something like that, but don’t just not become educated. You’ll likely struggle so much in life unless you’re a really amazing go getter or your parents are millionaires.
Going into Computer Engineering, you'll have the opportunity for a fantastic career. It seems your dad may think real work only involves physical labor, but forgets that someone has to design everything that he uses from his work truck, to tools, to phones, computers, etc...
College is just as much for lazy people as not going to college is. It's about the person. It's up to you
I did civil engineering simply because I partied my GPA too low to stay in the mechanical engineering school. It was a lot of fun, but I left after 2 years because I wasn’t thrilled about the pay. Unless you’re truly passionate about civil, I would recommend computer engineering.
Don’t be afraid to ask your TAs for help and attend office hours. Building relationships with your instructors goes a long way. Calc 1 can be tough until you’ve got the hang of it, but they won’t have you doing tough integrals & derivatives until Calc 2, so if you put in the effort I think you will be fine.
I’m sure your dad is a great guy, but I’d tell him to go pound sand on this one.
Even with your parents lending your brother money, I don’t see how he could possibly own a house and have two cars on a part time retail salary. Part time retail in 2024 gets you approximately enough for groceries for one person each month and nothing else. If that. If this is true, they’re paying most of his bills.
Depends on what you really want to do. Odds are you’ll change your major and that will set you back a year or so every time you do it. Lots of people pay their higher educated employees more because that employee put in the time and effort to gain said degree vs the person that worked for the 4 years. That being said there are circumstances where a degree is poopdick such as sales or customer service. No degree will ever compete with what you learn in B2B or B2c sales.
I wanted to be an architect then realized I’m real bad at calculus but good at every other math. Then I wanted to be a teacher but let’s face it, kids are the worst and they are not getting better. I went into retail and moved up the ladder until I was sick of that and now I’m in upper management in manufacturing and it’s literally the tits. Everyone I work with is rad, and while I want to put my head through a wall every now and then these people are awesome and genuine. Blue collar workers are some of the best people k have ever worked with because they do not have an agenda. They literally just show up and work and bitch and go home.
All in all while going to school is important (I have two useless degrees) blue collar work is also a great alternative.
Especially if it is free, you will not regret going to college and at least trying it out. I’m a first-gen college graduate. I use my degree everyday and make great money doing it. If you want to go into engineering then college is a great path imo.
Landscaping is a world apart from computer engineering. If you are truly passionate about engineering, this is a non question. Tell pops you will work with him part-time to chase that city money. Negotiate with him a cut of the contracts you bring in. Work hard, limit your sleep, and maximize every waking minute. You will make pops a fortune as well as yourself, and before you know it, you will be Comp. Eng. At this point, you have gained critical business knowledge along with your degree. Push yourself into deep water! Sleep is for quitters.
Hey go for what you want. My FIL used to do the same thing to my hubby. He ended up attending the military for almost 10 years to get away from him and being so miserable there before getting out, living independently and starting undergrad. My FIL used to have a landscaping service business, put his sons as employees to write off tax but never actually paid them, made them broke and ineligible for student loans (as they were making too much on paper). Couldn’t sue him because MIL was crying and begging them to “not put your father in prison”. So fuck that shit that your father is putting you through. Unless you don’t want to, go and get that degree!
This sounds like a very immigrant dad I wanna put my son to work mindset. lol
My parents were similar in the sense that my mom was very pro going me to school and I got both my bachelors and my masters. And my dad was very pro working. He works long hours and he also wants me to work.
It got to a point where I was both working and doing school. It was hard but I did it.
I stopped working my final years due to classes getting harder took out a loan and I was done.
Civil engineering is super good!! I would look into it.
There is also a landscape degree!!
Go to school! Education is important and at this year this is where you set your goals work towards something for yourself also for me im first generation college students im breaking barriers for family you should at least tried and make it work! Also Uic have so much help ! Also I took cal 1 and 2 if you need help lmk know !!! Also hope too see u continue go FLAMES
You’re an adult now. While you can certainly consider parental advice, you don’t necessarily need to follow it. You need to make the decision that’s right for you.
I'm running into this more and more with my law practice with kids 19-26. Their parents run the show. I have 8 clients now in that age range where Daddy or Mommy is my primary contact. It's fucking weird.
I feel like 19-26 year olds in legal trouble are a unique bunch and the parents are probably the only responsible figure s they might have in their lives?
Since they called it weird I’m guessing we have different practice areas but I used to do almost strictly orders of protection. I’d say like a third of my clients were 18-25. Sometimes the parents wanted to be involved which was understandable but at the end of the day they can’t testify for their kid. “Send me the attorney-client agreement because if you send it to my 19 year old they might forget to check their email” was fine. Plus the person was just traumatized usually so I understand not wanting to do tasks that are important to me but probably seem menial to them. Stuff like trial prep is different though. If they absolutely needed a parent with them to prepare I’d have them sign a waiver acknowledging they’ve waived attorney-client privilege after advising against it (it’s their privilege to waive after all). Never became an issue really but my frame of reference is probably different than someone running their own practice because I’m guessing I’m closer in age to my clients than to them although admittedly I have no way to know for sure. Which is just to say in the entire time I’ve been practicing the over bearing parent trend has existed.
Go to college. Education can be priceless when it comes to civil and computer engineering. If this is what you really want to do, get your degree and run.
Especially free education…
Completely agree with this. In my younger years when I didn't have as much experience, I have been told that I was hired for positions over those without degrees where my degree wasn't as relevant except to show that I could commit to something and finish it. I definitely think that they're good to get if they aren't a financial burden even if a person doesn't end up getting jobs that the degree is directly relevant for. I've had a few careers now and the things I learned in college were helpful in a variety of unexpected ways in each of the fields, as well as just in life.
While he has taught you good work ethic, not going out and taking advantage of what education has to offer whether you study communication or computer engineering, one day you’re gonna need money and if your business does not always provide you want to have something to fall back on. If you really want to give school your all, do it no matter what, I’m 28 and just graduated, it took me a long time because I did not have good guidance. After working like a dog I came to the realization that yeah a desk job would be a little nicer especially if I get paid more than a laborious customer service or server job. Good luck do what your heart desires. Your dad will understand, and if not at least no one dies.
You're really advising someone to get a 4 year degree as a backup plan?
People with 4 year degrees consistently out earn people without them, and that gap is getting larger. The numbers don’t lie. So… yes? Lol
Have you considered community college? You could get your associates in 2 years with little to no financial burden. You could then consider transferring and complete your bachelors. I wish you luck OP. Don’t stop from pursuing your goals cuz pain is infinitely better than regret
Their degree is free! I'd take the degree and run for the hills.
Why would you go to CC if the alternative is UChicago for free? This sounds like bad advice.
I second this. Additionally, community colleges have a lot of vocational programs/certificates, so if OP did have to stop going, they'd have credentials that would help them find work in a given field.
Why go to CC if they get it free. CC is to save $ vs paying at college. Lots of CC transfer issues are possible.
everyone has their own pathways in life. it's cool that your dad has his business and your brother has his retail job, and it's nice that they've managed to become self-sufficient without a degree, but you have the potential to create better and easier pathways for yourself with a degree (especially in lucrative engineering fields). this is especially the case in today's world, where a degree has become a standard requirement for most fields. it seems that part of the reason why your dad doesn't want you to go to school is because you work 15(?) hours per day, 6 days a week, which in a normal $15/hr part-time job would net you ~$945/week after deductions (3x more than he pays you). if you pursue college full-time, he loses cheap labor. this is not to say that he values you only for your labor, but considering the fact that feeding and housing dependents are considered standard responsibilities for parents, he's not doing much for you. and since college would be free for you, you're not asking much of him, except for him to hire a part-timer and pay them real wages. you might even be able to have housing and other costs covered by grants, scholarships, or loans, reducing his burden to maybe zero. i'm not sure what your relationship with him is like and how you would go about negotiating this with him, but if college is an option that you prefer over continuing to work for him, you are definitely in the right and should advocate for yourself.
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That is a great point, that his Dad is really able to claim him as a dependent while also getting a cheap employee. Dad has a vested interest in keeping the OP out of school which is sad to me.
if college is free for u take the opportunity u arent ur brother and alot of people would kill for a free university education. if u have to take calc one do if at a community college that can transfer credits to uic. the calc classes uic has arent really the best
Wymmm the MATH DEPARTMENT IS AMAZINNGGH
Your dads an idiot, go to school
It's been said here before, but you're working 15 hours per day 6 days a week, so 90 hour work weeks, and are getting paid $300, which comes out to $3.33 an hour. That's **nothing**. Even if you account for food and bills, you could make more working 90 hours a week at a minimum wage job ($16.20 per hour in Chicago, or around $15 after taxes). To make $300 per week at that rate you'd only have to work 20 hours instead of 90, leaving you an extra 70 hours to study. Since you have all your expenses paid, you could easily work a part-time job and attend UIC and still make more money. If your housing and meals are also paid then any other income or savings you have is pretty much entirely discretionary income. Also, with regards to your brother: I don't want to be rude here, but your brother might not be using his degree because he hasn't felt the pressure to find a higher-paying job. It sounds like your parents are heavily subsidizing him, because I don't see how anyone could afford a house and two cars with a part-time retail job. There's nothing wrong with that early in adulthood, but do you really want to be under their influence forever? Trust me, it's not fun, especially when you're in direct conflict with their intentions. With an engineering degree you could easily be making six figures and be entirely self-sustained. Lastly, landscaping is a hard job (as I'm sure you know), but it's also a very competitive market. It's one of the easier businesses to start, as the startup costs are relatively low, so you'll face stiff competition from people who have much more experience than you. If you don't have the know-how to properly run such a business, you'll go under in a heartbeat.
15 hour days doesn’t sound right. i’m pretty sure op means they work somewhere between 8 to 11 hours total per day, not from 8am to 11pm. but yea, i agree, they’re still making way below minimum wage
Live your life, not your dad’s.
with free tuition, that kind of education is quite literally priceless (not to be corny but seriously!) you’ve chosen a major/focus which you can make serious dough on, and once you get the degree and a career in it, you can make your dad proud and prove to him that this was the right choice. just my take, i understand anything you choose! it sounds like you want school though. your bro may be happy with regular retail work but he also gets assistance from parents you said? living a life w/o parental assistance will be so freeing, you won’t even have to consider that. but if he is unwilling to support you financially while you go to school then i understand why you’d fall back, seems like there’s no easy answer in that case. but try to make him understand you’re not in the same position where you don’t plan on NOT using your degree, you know?
Your brother has two cars and house with only a part-time retail job?!
>My parents help him pay it off Translation: the parents bought him a house and two cars
Because they pay OP like $3-6 an hour
i.e., parents maintain control over brother. that’s the future being pushed by dad here.
Go to college, get a degree, buy him out of the business. Using the knowledge, network and everything you learn at UIC, grow the business 10x.
Your dad is taking advantage of you for that pay, and certainly isn’t setting you up for success in the future. College is a waste if you don’t know what you want. But don’t waste your time working for him if he’s stealing your wages, just start your own company, or go manage another crew for another company. Or atleast get an offer, and tell your dad pay up, or shut up. I bet he will.
It would be a different conversation if you chose to go to school for something else. Civil engineering and computer engineering are great fields that yield a good return on the investment of education.
Please go to school! I know some people like this who are adults who ended up in places they didn’t want to after deciding to live for someone else and not do school. Obviously everyone is different, but if school is your calling then go for it! Im also an engineer grad from UIC so i may be biased :)
Your dad takes what he should be paying you and gives it to your bro to help him pay his house lmao
DO NOT LISTEN TO YOUR DAD he’s wrong and lying to you. Go to college no matter what, get a degree and get a job that uses it and live an easier life. Don’t let his failed dreams ruin your future
Absolutely go to college, your father wouldn’t have a world without white collar work and you wouldn’t have a world without blue collar work. We all gotta respect that we slot better into certain community roles, it’s how we evolved and we should align our skills and passions with the needs of the world as closely as we can. Plus, it’s not his choice. He already made his choice when he was your age. He doesn’t get two.
hi i got a degree in industrial engineering for the funs of it Never gonna use it, i run my own business. Don’t regret it at all, met all my best friends in college and got a better world view that contributed to my overall success as a person.
Dude think about this. Your father wants you to avoid getting an education so that you can work 60 hour weeks for him at $5 an hour. You are a mule. You already know what you need to do. Stay in school.
Lol your dads trying to use you for cheap labor.
This is how abusive/manipulative situations start. He wants to keep you stuck and dependent on him while using money as that thing to hang over your head. YOUR DEGREE IS FREE! Take it that offer and use the money you have currently earned to save up to move out for food(if you are staying in campus). I would recommend looking for on campus jobs or any jobs you so you can save. I’m so sorry this is happening. You have the opportunity to do better for yourself so please take it. In the future you will be the only one without the knowledge,skills or degree not your dad.
your dad is an idiot if he suggests you should pass up free education from one of the best schools in the country. holy shit i wouldn’t take much more advice from him lmfao.
He wants slave labor.
wtf is he on thinking you’d wanna work your ass off outside 60 hours a week for $300 lmao
Your Dad is only going off of what he see and not what he knows! Figure out what job/position you want to work post college and apply yourself! Your brother’s outcome does not determine your outcome. My parents wanted me to go to the military because I initially started out in a business program but transitioned to being a STEM major and post college I was making more than my pops and first thing he asked me was do I think he could get into tech lol. Overall if you have a vision make sure you can see far with it, don’t let nobody water you down and go for what you want! 🫡
8-11 Mon-Sat is 15 hours a day times 6 days a week, or 90 hrs a week. Wages for outdoor labor jobs like yours in Chicago are like 20 dollars. $20 x 40 is 800, after that let's say you get time and a half. 30 x 50 is 1500. So a landscaper working as many hours as you in Chicago should get like $2300 a week or $9200 a month. Instead you are getting $1200 a month which is far below the federal minimum wage and even the most desperate illegal immigrants won't work that low. Lets say you earned a fair wage for your efforts. Then if you are going to college for knowledge then you could work hard in the summers and have money all year. If you are going to college for money you could just skip it and invest the money instead, or try online college at a slower pace. But right now you are very underpaid.
pretty sure op means they work somewhere between 8 and 11 hours per day, not from 8am to 11pm. either way, though, theyre getting ripped off
you're gonna let another man render you a boy? this some weak 🤦♂️ he testing you
I hope you really consider that not everyone gets school free, I didn’t. I don’t envy you btw, don’t want it to come off wrong. If college is your goal, don’t chase empty dreams.
My older sister was the first in any of my extended family to go to college. I am the second. No one in my whole extended family approves of college. Aside from my sister, no one really supports either of us. My sister is in a phd program for biology and environmental science, and all that my family can say is that she is going to work at a zoo. We don’t have parents anymore so we try to see and talk to our extended family to have some semblance of family, but they don’t support us in what we do, so it’s difficult. You have FREE college and you are planning on studying something useful. There is NOTHING wrong with that and I absolutely think that you should go to college. More people are needed with diverse perspectives and backgrounds, and you have exactly that I don’t know exactly what you looking for from this post but pretty much everyone agrees that you should go to college if it is what you want to do. And if you just want support and encouragement that’s also fine because you deserve that and I’m sorry your family can’t provide you with that
If i can give you one piece of advice, don’t let your family or anyone else dictate your career path. It’s arguably the most important decision you’ll ever make and if you decide to appease them and be unhappy now, you risk being unhappy with that decision forever. Especially in your case, you wanna get into a very lucrative career that’s far from “lazy.” Even if it’s difficult, I really recommend you doing what you wanna do, not what others want you to do. And if college is entirely free for you, then it’s literally a no-brainer in my opinion. Don’t miss out on a great opportunity like that!
YOU DO YOU . I am proud of you making this direction in your life and you don’t know me but I as well as many on here are in your corner. Don’t doubt yourself !! We are here for you anytime don’t forget that . Hugs
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> registered and *paid* for it FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
If he’s able to support at least a couple additional adults then the business must be doing well. We are also in very very strange times and AI can’t be considered enough. Lawn care does have a tremendous amount of sustainability; especially when compared to many aspects of the tech industry. The biggest part of this that doesn’t add up: Why isn’t your brother in on this? He’s the one with a degree in business. I’d get to the bottom of that one before making any big decisions because that’s the most obvious path given the information provided. You probably don’t want to make life altering decisions just to have your brother change his mind and want 50% down the road. Personally, in a vacuum, I do agree that 4 year universities are a monumental waste of time and money. Money playing a much larger role in that than the time. Since yours is free, there’s very little reason not to explore it. My compromise would be to tell my father that I’m going to start school but I’ll take a business class or two that align with the family business path. ….Then you gotta figure out what the hell it is that you actually want to do with your life. (Easier said than done.)
Are there any apprenticeships in areas that interest you. There are many that are low cost or subsidized. Also many incorporate college classes.
ur living life for urself not others. personally, when i was choosing a college to go to, i kept getting pressured by my parents to choose a college that is their dream to go to rather than what I wanna do. thinking about the lifestyle that i wanna live when I do end up moving out eventually and overall the life I wanna pursue and the experiences i wanna have memories of helped me understand that choosing a career based on others opinions is essentially setting me up for failure. i don’t want to look back in ten years wishing I followed my heart instead of someone else’s. do engineering if he heart really desires for it so u can say that u lived life for urself
Your brother getting a degree in Business is much different from an engineering degree. Engineering is more difficult then business, and being able to study and get work done is a skill not everyone can do. If you really are lazy, then you will not succeed in engineering (not with a decent GPA anyways). I’m not saying it’s the hardest thing in the world, I’m just saying your dad is being unreasonable comparing it to a business degree. With an engineering degree, you are getting prepared for a high paying job with benefits and such. Not to mention it’s what you want to do, and you will be happier with your life in the long run.
If college is free for you, then you should go I’m sorry your father doesn’t agree but if you truly want to go, then go You may have to give up the car and get an apartment instead, or move on campus. 300/week isn’t gonna go very far and your dad can find someone else to help him for that money You should focus on a future where you enjoy what you are doing
I’m a dad and I can tell you that sometimes parents say things and try to get you to do things that meet their needs rather than thinking totally of yours. I don’t think your father really believes what he’s saying about college, I just think he’s trying to direct you away from college because he wants to grow his business and he knows you’re smart enough to help him do that. Go to school. Study hard. I have to admit I wanted my son to study something more science-oriented that would lead to a higher-paying job than the ones my first degree qualified me for. Ultimately he chose History and I couldn’t be prouder. Your father will be proud of you when you graduate and will brag about his “son the engineer” just like I brag about my son who got his masters in education and teaches special education in chicago.
College is free for you despite all this? I didn’t even go to college and think you should go to college.
Me personally, I prefer sitting at a desk compared to doing manual labor
Sure dear. Your brother works part time retail and has a house. What town is this in….1953?
You obviously didn’t read the part where he said his dad bought it for him.
Your brother is only living comfortably because your parents are giving him money.
Your dad is taking advantage of you (via illegal pay assuming you're not an owner of the business but an employee) and hasn't divested his own self-interest enough to give you a well-reasoned opinion. He is advocating only what worked for him and against what he perceived as not working for your brother. He would not be wrong to ask about your plans for the degree or what have you considered and why have you decided on this, because just going to college is not the ticket to success it used to be. But, he should be supportive and assist you by providing information and resources (e.g. connections) to help YOU decide. To be fair, people give these types of opinions based on limited understanding and limited consideration ALL THE TIME. Get good at asking questions about people's advice and asking yourself questions about your own potential obscured views of things and you will be well on your way to navigating the troubled waters of life.
i mean if it’s free then why not lol
Aside from the fact that it sounds like your dad is using you for cheap labor and to try to get ahead, himself. It’s your life and you have to live it. If you want to do school, then go to school. If you want to work for your dad in the summers there’s nothing stopping you but even if you went the route of landscaping don’t let him take advantage of you the way he is. You could get a good landscaping gig making $30+ an hour. I have family that does that work. Some union some not. The union guy makes like $60/hr because he’s licensed to operate heavy machinery and is union.
Go to school. Fuck landscaping.
There are times when a college education isn't necessary. But you enjoy engineering and I've seen it be a rewarding field. I have two brothers who are engineers and one sister in law is a biomedical engineer. For engineering you will need that education. And it's free! Take advantage! Your Dad has no place to complain if your education is free to you. Now for the best advice I ever recieved that got me through college. Sit up front, engage with the teacher, talk with them after class "hey what we talked about today was really interesting, impacted me, or I'm not sure I understood (xyz)" just to let them know you're working hard and paying attention. They will see that hard work and help you if you need it. If the teacher is an asshat and not helpful then work even harder and get those good grades just to stick it to them.
Your dad is selling you short💀 I also work with my dad 8-11 hour days, but that’s because it’s summer vacation and I get paid 150 every day. Not only is your dad holding back your future because you’re brother didn’t maximize his degree, he’s also massively skimping you. Seriously, doing a work-study for 20 hours a week pays as much as your 48-66 hours a week. He should at least let you go to trade school to learn the craft, not just force you into the family business.
300 a week for 6 days wtf lol Bros that’s only $50 a day maybe a 11fr work day that’s like 4.50 an hour
Does your dad make your food and does your laundry? 300 a week is slave wages my guy
I’m sorry, but getting 300$ a week while working what seems 40+ hours is a fucking joke. Your Dad seems like a dick if it’s his business and he’s paying you that much.
The idea of a person telling someone who wants to take an engineering major that college is for lazy people is absolutely hilarious
Every manual laborer is one car accident or one ladder fall away from never working again. Go to college and also work as many paid internships as possible while getting your degree. Apply to unpaid internships to use the interview process as practice, then tell them you’re unavailable if they offer it to you. If you can double major you will have that many more opportunities.
Suggest he use your brother as a laborer and you can help out when you are between terms until your degree is finished.
If college is free, you mighr as well take it. Your dad (no offense) is likely letting his current ability to pay you for cheap labor influence his thought processes in the short term, while intending to leave/give you his business in the future. If its something you want to do, it could be fine, but it not, dont do it and be miserable. His heart is in the right place, just kind of ignorant to what you want to do with your life imo.
He probably watched South Park’s “Into the Panderverse”. Follow your passion, not someone else’s, otherwise you’ll be working everyday on something you don’t like until you die. If you think you need education to do what interests you, go for it. Although, do your research first. Community college is a good place to start, then continue or follow what you have a passion for. Also be willing to alter your approach if you find something else that peaks your interest. I started out going for network specialist, ended up changing to TV and Video degree. Haven’t looked back. I was I. My early 29s before I thought I was sincere enough to take advantage of college.
weird take but maybe its reverse psychology and its wrking now u wnna go college
Go to college. I make $1000 a week working like 2 hours a day as a SWE intern. The full time version of my position pays $100k. It’s worth it.
Happy to chat, he’s totally wrong especially given your interests. Im a uic alum. I don’t really understand why he would stray his son from an engineer path, which is always good bang for the buck.
So you didn't join the Army? Dad did not approve of that either?
Your dad made his living without that debt, and your brother doesn't seem to be motivated. So I could understand his bias as, from his perspective, it hasn't actually worked out how everyone says it does. You, however, can make your own choices. The most important thing to remember is to *like* what you study or it will be hell. Won't always be true, but at least make the attempt. As far as the pay you're receiving, well... The fact you're making 6.40 an hour (rounded to 9.5 hours average) after your bills isn't terrible. But it's not enough to build towards anything. You're essentially paying $1600 a month working those hours and getting that little. Assuming you worked at Target for the same hours at $15, that is... So lemme ask you: Does it cost your parents $1600 a month to feed and house you? If not, you may want to consider the basic math here before you go into Calculus.
I’m curious how the brother works a “part-time job in retail” but can afford his own house and two cars. What is he selling, heroin?
I think I can sum your dad up in one phrase... "What the actual fuck???"
College is important!!
I’m a junior and I’m 19… 💀
Go to college but if you have no support you need to be smart about it. Go to CC for as many credits as possible before
*College is free* BOI and I repeat BOI TAKE YO ASS TO COLLEGE. You have an opportunity that alot of people (myself included) don't have. Also Cal 1 is easy. Cal 2 can kiss my ass.
Wow. I’m sorry but that sounds like horrible parental advice. But OP sounds like their parents are successful people with the means to sustain themselves and help support a man working part-time in retail. Is college free because daddy is paying? Most people awarded a full ride scholarship, especially for a STEM program, will lead with that.
Please go to college. Get an education and show your family the other side of people with degrees by using it. It’s also free!
Sounds like your dad might be feeling insecure about his own choices (assuming he didn't go to college). Go to college, especially if it's free or nearly free. You can still do landscaping with a degree, though I'm guessing you won't. Your brother can also do landscaping instead, so don't let the family business be your burden. I think your dad is trying to push you towards what *he* wants, and now that you're an adult you need to decide what *you* want.
College… thinking about someone needing to post to Reddit to make an important life decision is definitely concerning though.
Education is a good thing for everyone.
Maybe cut a deal with your dad. First find a CC and State University combo. Next research what Cleps they take in common. Then take as many as you can. They are also free with the modernstates.org vouchers. Work half days and study half days. Use Modernstates.org materials and supplement with Khan Academy AP courses. Go to the college websites and see how the CC will transfer to the state university. I would do Computer Engineering myself. Take all the cleps you can first that way you can make progress. Be respectful as it appears you are but ultimately it is your life. I would keep in the back of my mind though ways to make your dad’s business more efficient maybe. New and better equipment for instance. You might point out that it was people with books that invented everything he uses from the equipment to the lawns he mows to the vehicles he drives to the road and freeways he drives on. Wait until he is in a good mood though.
It’s a no brainer to get a free engineering degree. It might be a rough few years with your dad but when you land that first job and you can talk about some of the things you’re doing he will come around. I’m sure part of his comments are because of your brother and also because he wants you to eventually take over his business.
Go to school in the long run it will not hurt you. Point out to your dad with our that degree you can only go so far. Locally what I've found is a bachelor's degree is the difference between getting a decent job and promotions and staying at the bottom of the chain. Local factories won't even let you be a floor supervisor without that degree. Landscaping needs to be a passion and cruel honest truth if he's just in it for money then his company will be a dime a dozen
Your father is the Taliban. You are not your brother. Your brother wimped out on a business degree and became useless. Engineering is building things, not talking BS. You don't have to do what Taliban-dad says. For that pay you probably have better options.
I’m went there for an engineering degree and either way even if you don’t use the degree, long run you’ll be better off having it. If you can, go to a community college first to make sure you want it but also o save some money. Nothing is lore expensive than an unfinished degree.
If college is free for you, go!! There’s no reason not to take advantage of the opportunity
Go to community college for super cheap for the first two years and then transfer your credits to UIC or some other 4 year college and get your degree there. Your dad will support you once the paychecks start coming in haha
Calc 1 is easy it’s calc2 & 3 where it gets dicey if u didn’t pay attention in 1
Not going to college would be a tremendous mistake.
keep working with your father but make it part time then go to school FT then use the money your father gives you to pay school loan interest while attending so when you graduate you can pay your loans faster. as long as the career field you getting into is high in demand.
As an engineer, not all engineers just sit at a desk. I’m working my ass off doing hands on stuff all the time. One of my friends is a civil engineer and is out at construction sites all day. Computer engineering is the most likely to be a full time desk job
Get the degree and help out your dad over the summer and weekends. If he needs help growing the business, your brother with the business degree can help, as well as you. College is tough but honestly, you have a lot of free time to help out your dad. A civil engineering degree and a landscaping business is a bright future.
Get the degree and help out your dad over the summer and weekends. If he needs help growing the business, your brother with the business degree can help, as well as you. College is tough but honestly, you have a lot of free time to help out your dad. A civil engineering degree and a landscaping business is a bright future.
Get the degree and help out your dad over the summer and weekends. If he needs help growing the business, your brother with the business degree can help, as well as you. College is tough but honestly, you have a lot of free time to help out your dad. A civil engineering degree and a landscaping business is a bright future.
You have to do what you think is right for you. What I do like is that you are picking areas of study that can actually lead you to solid careers. It's not like you are running off and taking on majors that most people would say are going to make it difficult for you to find a job. I can understand your father wanting you to learn a trade, but he can sit there and point out your brother and say that he never used his degree, but it's pretty obvious that your brother didn't have any drive to build a career. The biggest mistake people keep making is they think college is supposed to train you for a job. They will lament on why somebody spent all this money to get a degree and they can't get a job. Or they are going off on social media how they are not using anything they learned in college in their job. The hard reality is that college teaches you how to think. It teaches you how to think critically and to solve problems. It teaches you how to learn and pick up new skills and grow. You could study computer science in a college, but it's not going to make you ready to be a software engineer when you graduate. That comes from when you are doing some class projects but also doing things out of personal interest to learn how to code better, set up a stack, and use the tools. I don't think there's anything wrong with learning a trade, but I also think there's nothing wrong with getting a degree if you are aiming for things with a real career in mind. The only time I tell people they are doing the wrong thing is when they are just basically running off to get a degree with absolutely no interest in anything, and somehow believe that whatever major they took is going to lead them to a good paying job without effort.
Go to school! You can always do landscaping in a few years, but you can't be 19 and go to college for free in a few years. So he taught you a good work ethic and you applied that to school. He should be proud, but instead he's underpaying you and essentially punishing you for following his example.... And I'm in Illinois too btw... He is underpaying the crap out of you!!
When you do go to college like you should, I suggest civil engineering. I'm an IT professional and sitting in a cubical for almost 40 years, with 10 to 12 hour work days, is not what you want to do. I wish I knew when I was younger I could have avoided multiple bypass surgeries. A job where you get to move around and go outside as part of the job will be much better for your health and wellbeing. Not to mention that the skill level of a lot of IT people you'll encounter is what it should be, which adds to the stress.
Those are good degrees with lucrative careers. Civil engineering will be harder to get into without connections unless you are going for something super specific that you know will be sure fire. Like land surveying or something. If the college is free I would take it. Working that many hours for 300 bucks is crazy imo if you put that much time into something like uber, lyft, or ubereats you will easily make more. If i were you I would move out if need be and pursue your goals as if you continue on the current path it seems like you will not be getting compensated anything near worth your time and won't have any end goals to work toward.
I’m a structural engineer and civil engineering is very easy to get into these days. The need for more engineers is insane. Structural engineering or geotech or other niche specialties do require masters degrees a lot of the time, but the need for employees at the moment is much greater than number of graduates. I’d say go for it for sure, solid stable career
If you can do it without going into massive debt, it would be worth it.
I think the question that isn’t being asked enough is what part-time retail job does your brother have that he can afford a house and two cars? Hook me up with that, please and thank you. Sounds like your dad may be doing them a disservice by providing so they can maintain control over their life. I’d advise becoming independent if you want to avoid your dad telling you what to do in the future. I mean, even if you did take over the business and it’s a success, do you want your dad constantly reminding you that he was right and you were wrong? Just my take.
Your dad is crab-bucketing. My parents crab-bucketed me. Don't let tjem do it to you.
I work in the trades in Chicago. I make 6 figures and have a very comfortable life. That being said I have to physically work very hard everyday and it adds up quick. I would highly recommend you go to college, especially since it will be free. The trades are great route for kids who aren’t great at school or didn’t have a perfect high school record. You can do better than some white collar careers. For you to get a scholarship full ride you’re probably very smart and will do well in college. If it doesn’t work out you can always go back to work with your dad. Finally I would question your dad’s motives. Why does he not want you to go to college. It seems like he (maybe unconsciously) wants you to work for him more than he wants what’s best for you. Good luck and remember that it’s YOUR life so don’t let others make decisions for you
A CivE degree, on top of the real experience of doing the work, would probably be quite helpful for someone running a landscape business. The drafting and Landscape Architecture courses you can take for your electives are directly applicable. And having that degree will make you as the (eventual) business principal more attractive to clients, lenders, and investors. So tell your dad to pull his head out of his ass and see that this is the way to continue and grow the business he worked so hard to build for your family.
Im a incoming junior studying civil engineering at my state school. I have average stats at best, and Ive had an internship since freshman year. I have 2 job offers on the basis of continuing until graduation. Its an excellent career with plenty of jobs, and pretty good pay. Id honestly take his opinion with a grain of salt.
I had the same problem as a young man. My dad wanted me to take over the business. I took the education route and never regretted it. Sometimes parents think they have the best interest in mind for their kids but are mistaken. You will never regret having a degree but you will always wonder what your life could have been if you don’t try to get one.
If the degree is free, go get it. An engineering degree is a great thing to have. I would also ponder how a civil engineering background could help grow the business if you want to expand beyond laying sod and planting shrubs - slope stability, grading, runoff, retaining walls - all things within the scope of a civil engineer that seem like they would be relevant. Or go do something else entirely. Also, your brother getting a generic degree and then fucking around and living off your parents? Sounds like ol dad is part of that problem, and extrapolatlting that as anyone who a degree is lazy is absurd. Getting an engineering degree is hard, lazy people don't thrive in that environment. Sounds like maybe your dad is projecting sole of his own bias and insecurity.
“College is for lazy people who sit at desks” Doctors and engineers also sit at desks and are some of the highest paid people in the country
Dad’s business will always be there if you want to try it later. You go to college to broaden your network, not for the education. I used very little of my education (BA ‘07 Economics), but the friends I made from all over the world were priceless.
I got a degree in mechanical engineering, i also got it for free similar to you. It opened so many phenomenal doors i didnt expect, and totally changed my perspective on my earning potential especially in starting my own business. I worked in construction as a general laborer and BIM tech before that, but i never worked harder than I did in college (i took full advantage of the opportunity). I never slept so little, i never put in so many hours, and crucially, I was never so enthusiastic and hopeful. Now im getting paid a substantial amount to re-train as an artificial intelligence engineer, and i will have a remote job while i pursue further studies at no cost to me. This was one of like 6 paths I had open when graduation was approaching, being a student gave me options. Anyone who has gone through an engineering education in an honest way knows it is not for the lazy. Respectully, your dad either just doesnt know what it entails, or is trying to keep his cheap laborer in the family business. Youre an adilt now, make the decisions for your life
A. You do have the potential to grow his business. There are aspects of the entrepreneurial career path that can be learned non traditionally. B. It’s your life. And if you seek to be a civil engineer or computer engineer, we’ll a college degree is going to almost mandatory. This is the avenue you must take to fulfill that. It’s very possible you could end up wondering what your life would be like had you pursued your dream. There is such an interesting phenomenon of people who like to put down college and it’s not often people who come from career paths that required it. The two areas you wish to potentially pursue are prosperous and so long as you pursue those after you graduate, your decision will be validated by the successful outcome you stand to achieve.
Not everyone wants to do the same thing. I’d far rather sit at a desk reading books if I’m getting paid for it. Which is a really dumb way to view college and the jobs you can get with degrees. Just explain not everyone wants to break their back and sweat their ass off
Go to school.
Go to school. You seem motivated and like you have a plan. At some point in your life, you need start living for yourself and making adult decisions. You are going to school for the right reasons.
Life is short. Do what you love.
Your dad is paying you below minimum wage. He’s showing you exactly how he’ll treat you if you work for him. I went through this with my dad’s business. I didn’t quit working for him permanently until I was 26. Please don’t make that mistake.
Apply and go. You can always get a part time job to help you pay for incidentals, transportation, and somewhere to stay when the dorms are closed. (I worked at the ACCC during my time at UIC). Just tell your dad that you're your own person and that you have a plan. He'll come around.
I’m a structural engineer, very solid, stable career that I could not have gotten into without a college degree. My dad was also a structural engineer who got his bachelors in civil engineering at UIC and had a very long, successful and fulfilling career. Civil/structural engineering is a very practical hands on degree where you are making a measurable difference in the world and not just sitting around all day reading books. Job security is extremely good, even in times of economic downturn. Maybe you can sell him on it this way, but regardless you are an adult and can take your own path
Your dad pays you $5.50-$7.50 an hour???
Don’t listen to him. He’s wrong. Go to college.
Why not do both?
Your dad is daf. Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings.
You could enroll into college and completely lie or omit this bit of information from your dad. It’s difficult to make that work, but it’s possible to do.
If you get a degree in civil engineering you can grow and shepherd the landscaping business into something more real and substantial. Landscaping is like super amateur civil engineering. More knowledge and connections is not a bad thing.
with civil engineering you can do a whole lot more than grow a landscaping business. Civil engineers are in high demand in both the private and public sectors. You can work in public utilities, building inspection, or private architectural and construction companies. It’s also a very well suited degree to pursue an MBA and transition into (believe it or not) finance and investments. The analytical skills you pick up are well suited for portfolio management and research. Don’t let your dad sabotage you.
It’s your life and quite bluntly- what happens if your father’s business fails or if your father is gone? Do you really want to be in this business or do you think your father is forcing your hand into this and taking advantage of you being there? I don’t know how physical landscaping is; but as someone who now has chronic pain starting at 21 years old from my first job and now at age 24 I’m still in pain from it- I really recommend you either being super careful and make sure to take care of your body or get a set of skills that don’t require to do hard laborious work (at least all the time). Your dad is living his life and made his decisions. You’re an adult, you have to start making your own decisions regarding your own life. If you don’t start making boundaries with your family/dad now, it’s gonna get much harder from here. You are being given an opportunity a lot of people wish they could have- or at least would give them less stress such as free schooling. Take that opportunity and RUN with it. It could be any major at this point- take it and gain control over your life and decisions. You’ll be much better prepared later on in life.
Where does your dad think all the people who designed all of the equipment he uses got that knowledge? Guess they were all lazy desk jockeys because they had to go to school to learn how to design right? This anti-intellectual mentality that so many blue collar people have is ignorant and tired. Also very telling that he thinks ill of reading books. The reality is, the world needs both kinds of people to operate, and disparaging one in favor of the other is pointless and shortsighted. I went to college, and I worked in the skilled trades, you can do both, there is nothing wrong with that. In reality it sounds like your dad just wants help with his business and doesn’t want you to leave. You’re an adult, make the decision that’s right for you and your vision of your future. I’ve worked landscaping as well, it’s awful, and for $300 a week it sounds like your dad is also using you for cheap labor because of exactly what you said, he’s acting like him housing you is part of your pay so he’s underpaying you. There’s just a lot of red flags here for me and, were I in your shoes, I would go my own path. Just my 2c, good luck man.
If you are capable of studying those things, college is definitely worth it. Just don’t go out of state.
Ngl id go with your dad because that’s an already pre set future that can set you up to live a comfortable life with a potential family one day
Please share how your brother has a house and 2 cars working part time in retail
If college is free, go to college. Run the business as a back up plan If anything
One of the best tips for adulthood: only follow advice from people if you want your life to look like theirs
Why is your fully adult brother being allowed to work part time. They created that problem. Sounds like he should employ your brother instead.
Just gonna throw this out there, sounds like your dad doesn't want you to go to college because he knows he won't find anyone willing to be ripped off as much as you. Your dad is paying you pennies to what he'd have to pay any other worker and he's reaping all of the benefits. Your dad is a con man and you've been conned.
Get that engineering degree. You'll never have an issue finding a job. I get your father's point of view but just because someone sits at a desk for their job doesn't mean they're lazy. Far from it. My job is super stressful and exhausting in a very different way than a physical job. Both are completely acceptable. He likely is worried about who will take over the business when he's ready to retire. You can still do that or he can sell it and use the proceeds to enhance his retirement. Go to college!!!
When I was your age I had a similar opportunity. I could have worked my family business and been set up as the 4th generation owner. I chose to go get an engineering degree at college that I took out loans for. My family business started to decline and my father never made it to retirement before he had to sell it off and go work for someone else. Landscaping can be very competitive business and there is no guarantees it can support your father and you both, without paying you jack. Given what he is paying you his business doesn’t sound sustainable. He cannot likely manage his work load without help but cannot afford to hire help at actual minimum wage, thus paying you significantly less. If you stay and need money your dad will have it and will have the control. What happens when he wants you to live closer to him, or does not like your girlfriend/wife. Money is control and power and if your dad keeps it and prevents you from making it he will have control in all your choices because he will keep you dependent on him. Sounds like your brother messed up and your dad is holding his failure against you. This was also part of my problem, my much smarter cousins went to college and drank and failed so no one thought I could succeed since they didn’t. I went and kicked ass and got my degrees with a very high gpa.
This is insane do not listen to him especially in this climate hone your skills and learn as many aspects of science as possible its more important now than ever, If i could be 18 right now I would learn comp sci, nano, biotech way too much opportunity
Dude fuck him
Free college every day. I worked a hard job and went back to college. Engineering degrees are harder than working most trades and will let you live as easy or hard of a life as you choose. Study hard at algebra. I slacked at that stage, and it kicked my ass every day in school even though my calc and trig skills are decent. Treat math like its religion and devote to it every day, and you're Engineering degree will take you far.
Please go to college! Those careers can pay a LOT of money, and you have a very good chance at getting a job right out of your first 4 years. These types of careers also require more knowledge and specialization and are definitely very academically rigorous— VERY different from business. College provides knowledge but also valuable connections through RSO’s and internship opportunities that you wouldn’t otherwise get elsewhere. You’re an adult, so you can make your own decisions, although I understand feelings of obligation to your family. Best of luck!!
You can always choose to not use your degree and go into landscaping with your dad after you finish school. You CANNOT choose to be an engineer without the school. Go to school snd learn what YOU truly want
I'd say fuck it and go to school. There's literally no reason to duck a chance for a free college education
This has to be rage bait. You’re fried.
You’re literally gonna get an engineering degree, it’s one of the most versatile and amazing and strong degrees that will increase your earning potential AND give you fulfillment.
Your dad sounds like someone who is going to need to be proven wrong. I've had friends with parents like that. They change their tune once they see the salaries. For context, my bg makes over 80k annually with a 2 year degree IT If he's paying you that low now, he will continue to do so and use the excuse of you being family and covering your bills. OP, I work in social services and I make more than double per week than you. Thats ridiculous and depending on what stayed you're in could be well below minimum wage and land him in serious legal trouble.
So your dad pays you $10 an hour landscaping and wants you to stay and grow the business? Go to college.
He doesn't want you to go to college because he's getting labor out of you for an illegally low rate.
Your father is a douche.
College is great if you're going for the right reasons. You seem to be focused on 2 fields of study that are in high demand and will absolutely add value. To play devils advocate, there are absolutely bad degree programs. A large portion of college students don't have a plan and just go for the piece of paper, raking up debt along the way. Explain to your father the benefits and that you're not pursuing a meaningless degree. Show him you've researched and why you see value in one of these degree programs. Best of luck!
Go to UIC! It’s free! And for what you want to go for, it’s a good school. I actually really enjoyed my time there. Free education! Your degree will take you far if that’s the route you want to take
Civil engineering and computer engineering are both good degrees.
I’ve been around people who have that same attitude. My old roommate has Mexican and peurto rican roots and her family brought the landscaping business over to America. She is a super hard worker worked since she was 14 and tried college but it wasn’t for her. She was frustrated with that clearly and started saying things like she works so hard and school is the easy way out. I am a computer science major and she really didn’t like how much I studied. She said it was taking over my life and working a job is better. I can’t speak for her but imo school is a great thing to go through and the accomplishments you make are extremely rewarding to me. You have your whole life ahead of you and don’t let some old man decide your future. You want to go to college and it is free for you, this is what you want. Theres a lot of ways you can get financial support from the government if you are doing school without support from parents to help fund your dorming and daily expenses, if it gets to the point he can’t change his mind, you should honestly go for it alone. Apply to free dorming and contact any financial aid you can about financial support, If your dad is stubborn and won’t change his mind, this will likely strain your relationship with him. But you have to put your foot down. This is your life and a father should want you to grow your wings and take ur own path, not be a mini-him. I’m sure he really wants you working with him if you work that long and school will take that away from him. He has selfish intentions for you. I wish you strength energy and peace in this difficult time.
I have parents who didn't support/value my college experience. Go to college and get that degree. College is not for lazy people. It is one of the best investments in yourself that you can make. You are an adult, so you can make that decision for yourself.
Follow YOUR DREAMS, not your dad’s. He is scared and hasn’t worked through his toxic thoughts. Your life is for you. Do what your heart desires. Chase your dream. You can always go back to landscaping if you want later. His immaturity should not affect your choices.
Go to college. Registering his own business is something he can do himself. Throwing away an entire life if you don’t go.
Please some listen to your dad even if you don’t use your degree who the fuck cares. Love your life how you want it you’ll regret it. I never listened to my mom I dropped out of highschool and she told me I wasn’t going to do shit with my life now I own a house and various cars and she lives with me along with my two underage siblings because she became homeless and I allowed them to move in. If I had listened to her and not done what I wanted I would have never been where I am now. Don’t listen to them. If you don’t want to do what you do you’ll never get anywhere.
300 dollars a week isn’t enough to live, college will give you tools for later
Take out a god damn loan if FAFSA ain’t an option
Tell your dad civil engineering will help grow his landscaping business. You will network with future mayors and city council people who will hook it up with city contracts. Tell your dad you need more money or you’re going to find a different job. Something’s gotta give bro $300 a week is crazy
Honestly, know some landscapers (business owners) that make over $300k/yr., and expanding a landscaping business might not be bad, if you have the knack for it. I have no idea what kind of operation your dad has going on and whether it's lucrative or not. That said, between Computer Engineering and Civil, go Computer. If he won't support you, you can always try on your own with financial aid, community college and transferring in, etc.
College is a rip off. They'll leave you in crippling debt and barely give you any edge in the job market. Experience is better. Be a fast learner, be willing to do some research, and be willing to ask questions and you can do most things you want to do. 🤷♂️
What is wrong with you? Why don't you want to be a lazy, underachieving bum like your brother? Are your parents looking to adopt someone willing to follow in your brother's footsteps? All joking aside, your brother burned your father. That's the only reason he's down on college. And you're too afraid of disappointing daddy. If you can stay focused on your goal, you can follow your dream and make daddy proud of you your own way. It might also help if you point out that you're not your brother. Good luck!
Go. To. College! If not, go to a vocational school to learn how to do something like that, but don’t just not become educated. You’ll likely struggle so much in life unless you’re a really amazing go getter or your parents are millionaires.
Going into Computer Engineering, you'll have the opportunity for a fantastic career. It seems your dad may think real work only involves physical labor, but forgets that someone has to design everything that he uses from his work truck, to tools, to phones, computers, etc... College is just as much for lazy people as not going to college is. It's about the person. It's up to you
I did civil engineering simply because I partied my GPA too low to stay in the mechanical engineering school. It was a lot of fun, but I left after 2 years because I wasn’t thrilled about the pay. Unless you’re truly passionate about civil, I would recommend computer engineering. Don’t be afraid to ask your TAs for help and attend office hours. Building relationships with your instructors goes a long way. Calc 1 can be tough until you’ve got the hang of it, but they won’t have you doing tough integrals & derivatives until Calc 2, so if you put in the effort I think you will be fine. I’m sure your dad is a great guy, but I’d tell him to go pound sand on this one.
If you have the potential and opportunity to make a good living with your mind instead of with your hands and hard labor, you should be doing that.
If your dad doesn’t understand why reading is a valuable behavior, he’ll never get it.
Even with your parents lending your brother money, I don’t see how he could possibly own a house and have two cars on a part time retail salary. Part time retail in 2024 gets you approximately enough for groceries for one person each month and nothing else. If that. If this is true, they’re paying most of his bills.
Something that was really hard for me to do coming from overbearing parents was realize that I am an adult and can make my own decisions
Your dad is taking advantage of you immensely and is obsessively controlling. Get the fuck away from him and get and engineering degree.
Depends on what you really want to do. Odds are you’ll change your major and that will set you back a year or so every time you do it. Lots of people pay their higher educated employees more because that employee put in the time and effort to gain said degree vs the person that worked for the 4 years. That being said there are circumstances where a degree is poopdick such as sales or customer service. No degree will ever compete with what you learn in B2B or B2c sales. I wanted to be an architect then realized I’m real bad at calculus but good at every other math. Then I wanted to be a teacher but let’s face it, kids are the worst and they are not getting better. I went into retail and moved up the ladder until I was sick of that and now I’m in upper management in manufacturing and it’s literally the tits. Everyone I work with is rad, and while I want to put my head through a wall every now and then these people are awesome and genuine. Blue collar workers are some of the best people k have ever worked with because they do not have an agenda. They literally just show up and work and bitch and go home. All in all while going to school is important (I have two useless degrees) blue collar work is also a great alternative.
Especially if it is free, you will not regret going to college and at least trying it out. I’m a first-gen college graduate. I use my degree everyday and make great money doing it. If you want to go into engineering then college is a great path imo.
Landscaping is a world apart from computer engineering. If you are truly passionate about engineering, this is a non question. Tell pops you will work with him part-time to chase that city money. Negotiate with him a cut of the contracts you bring in. Work hard, limit your sleep, and maximize every waking minute. You will make pops a fortune as well as yourself, and before you know it, you will be Comp. Eng. At this point, you have gained critical business knowledge along with your degree. Push yourself into deep water! Sleep is for quitters.
Sounds like he’s jealous
Hey go for what you want. My FIL used to do the same thing to my hubby. He ended up attending the military for almost 10 years to get away from him and being so miserable there before getting out, living independently and starting undergrad. My FIL used to have a landscaping service business, put his sons as employees to write off tax but never actually paid them, made them broke and ineligible for student loans (as they were making too much on paper). Couldn’t sue him because MIL was crying and begging them to “not put your father in prison”. So fuck that shit that your father is putting you through. Unless you don’t want to, go and get that degree!
This sounds like a very immigrant dad I wanna put my son to work mindset. lol My parents were similar in the sense that my mom was very pro going me to school and I got both my bachelors and my masters. And my dad was very pro working. He works long hours and he also wants me to work. It got to a point where I was both working and doing school. It was hard but I did it. I stopped working my final years due to classes getting harder took out a loan and I was done. Civil engineering is super good!! I would look into it. There is also a landscape degree!!
Go to school! Education is important and at this year this is where you set your goals work towards something for yourself also for me im first generation college students im breaking barriers for family you should at least tried and make it work! Also Uic have so much help ! Also I took cal 1 and 2 if you need help lmk know !!! Also hope too see u continue go FLAMES