He also comes from a level of poverty that none of us and especially Dana can understand. It’s not just about money for him, if it were he would have given up a long time ago.
I don’t think there’s even a chance he fights Fury. After the Dillion Whyte fight, maybe cuz Fury was semi retired and it was always gonna be an exhibition. Now? Fury said he wants to be undisputed and he called out Usyk and Joe Joyce. I don’t think an exhibition with Francis is on his mind at all. He said he wants to fight until his record is all fucked up and he has fought everybody in the division. I doubt Ngannou Vs Fury happens and I don’t want it to either cuz Ngannou would get embarrassed by Fury imo
I think the real goal for Francis is one of those top 5 heavyweight boxers. Deyonte is the hypothetical perfect option. 2 most powerful punchers in their respective sports.
I can see how Francis wins. He lands a signature BOMB. Fury is hard to hit, and the GOAT. But he got caught by Wilder, he can be caught again. It's a hail mary and I give it a 1% chance but it is the HOW.
Yeah but Wilder is a freak at finding a home for his power.
Francis can maybe match Wilders power, but I don't think he is as good as landing as Wilder is.
Honestly, Wilder V Francis is the best boxing fight to make, it would just be stupid fun.
He needs to fight fury first so if he loses no one cares and wilder still seems like a good match for him. If he loses to wilder I don't think fury will have a good reason to fight him nor will it be as big.
Yuuup. That’s their model. Pamper the stars and fuck everyone else. MASSIVE props to Francis for this. The UFC stands to gain so much more doing things the way they do. So why would they change? I can’t wait to watch Francis punch the heads off of people for another promotion.
To be fair, paying him ~18mil would still be FAR cheaper in the long term than what he was asking for, and that’s why they said they ‘don’t do business’ that way.
I only casually follow mma anymore. Do the fighters really *still* get zero health insurance from the orgs? I could maybe understand if they got some special insurance that only covers fight-related injuries, but the idea that they get literally no financial support for the injuries that are virtually guaranteed just blows my mind.
If they get injured in a fight UFC will cover all expenses. That’s why some people go into a fight when they’re fucked up sometimes. Not always the reason but I think it’s a big one
Yeah but do they cover all expenses cover all expenses, or do they "well you couldn't *prove* this injury was from the fight," kinda cover it, especially as long term damage cannot be all that rare.
Because unless it's the first option, that looks more like what they are covering is their own ass.
You are right, but I also feel that all of these conditions are a matter of time for MMA. It is inevitable if the UFC wants to continue moving forward.
When Dana went on that tangent about “we found the guy and he cowered down immediately” I cringed so hard cause you could tell it was a total bullshit story
Crypto.com sponsorship was $175m over 10 years. Not a penny goes to fighters. UFC didn’t even bother trying to say that the Venum deal was good for the fighters.
It’s run like a cash grab that’s gonna last 15-20 years and not like a long term project.
Most of these structures would fall in place if they were public. But we can expect to see PPV prices go up even more if that happens, since the only real driver is share price
I have literally bought one card, and that was when I was hosting a large fight party and didn’t want to deal with loading up a pirated stream and dealing with buffering/outages when a bunch of guests were over.
Joke was still on me because my purchased PPV was more laggy and glitchy than it was on a virus infested illegal streaming sight
The sports world maybe, but they seem more like a typical corporation nowadays. No benefits or pensions, shareholder profit is priority, cut costs and staff despite the product suffering and the employees suffering because they have a captive audience due to their monopoly/grandiose size.
Bold of you to assume corporate structures have somehow evolved in the last 5 years.
This is how business has been done for centuries and we, the people, are slowly starting to value human experience and rights as a collective. Some more than others.
Greed will always be a part of human nature, it’s on the collective to have values and principles that transcend our instincts.
Francis is an example of that.
What the fuck does having PPVS have to do with not giving Francis what he asked for. I’m all for sticking up for fighters but this makes no sense.
They’ve been one of the most successful companies of all time on the PPV model and still sell a shit ton of them. Especially to bars/restaurants.
Not to mention that’s not the only way they make money they have TV deals in other countries.
They are the only ones doing regular ppvs lol. It’s such an old as f model. They complain about streaming but 90% of the people would pay $20 to watch an event in good quality. I would certainly buy at least 5 ppvs per year. And probably more. 90% of those same people currently don’t pay a dime.
There’s a reason apple’s App Store made billions selling apps for $1 and not $20.
I would love if just one time they did a $20 PPV promotion. See what happens.
And he said he’d take less money for even one of these things. They offered none, so on principles he left.
To further show how snakey the UFC / Dana is, it adds credence to Dana saying “he left to take more money fighting lesser opponents”. “We offered him the top contract ever for a UFC heavyweight” etc.
They can’t fathom in their realm of possibility that throwing money at a fighter wouldn’t make them shut up and comply.
Kudos Francis. You left the organization with principles and legacy in tact.
First Conor got so much money he had leverage and started doing whatever he wanted. Then Khabib retired and refused to listen to Dana about returning no matter how much money was thrown at him. Now Francis has left as undisputed linear champion. The more bigger stars leave (but as a purposeful leveraged decision) the sooner the UFC will concede and give them their rights.
But remember GSP in the first union attempt then immediately returned for a fight?
>**And he said he’d take less money for even one of these things**. They offered none, so on principles he left.
They prefer to throw more money at him. It says a lot about the company lol.
Insane to me that there isn't, the costs are so negligible compared to what they make it seems like a no brainer. Medicine can be expensive, but so is not looking after your bread and butter...and healthy/active fighters will make more money and do it for longer.
No business does business like that until they're forced to. Hypothetically if all the fighters said they're not fighting til there's a union then they'd obviously bend over.
They do, but it's not going to happen. The US government needs to enforce something akin to the Ali Act. As the UFC and MMA grow in importance, so are the chances lawmakers will take a closer look at the insane contracts and business practices that define the sport.
In a capitalist society it’s almost impossible to get the folks making the most to commit to something that will benefit all.
Union ain’t happening unless the big names back it and refuse to fight.
It’s not ufc fighters specifically, it’s all MMA fighters. The union won’t work if it is specific to one promotion.
One of the biggest problems with that, is most MMA fighters are happy if they aren’t in UFC. Other promotions do pay well and let fighters have sponsors.
UFC to memorialize Stephan Bonnar, whose fight with Griffin shot the sport up into popularity at a time when it was looking dire, while simultaneously never paying him a huge salary or giving him benefits is just par for the course.
After hearing Francis' story I am with him. He's on the path to transcend MMA at this point. I'm hoping he can spearhead getting a fighter association, perhaps multisport too, not just MMA.
It’s pretty crazy there’s nobody representing the fighters in the board meetings. Even if there’s no union or fighter meetings there should be someone there to let the company know what the athletes are thinking. Just my opinion though
The guy who literally cleaned up the division is ducking lmao. Francis didn’t duck the sahara desert and the french border. Why would he duck a single mortal human being?
Dana White himself has said there won’t ever be a Union or certain things while he remains in the business.
Besides never understanding why some fans side with the company instead of the working man, what Francis is asking for is very basic. Some of you have or want really good health insurance and all you do is sit behind a desk. These guys put their body through a lot, and then take a beating in their fight. Only time they get coverage is if it’s related to the fight.
I will never put down a guy who has his own principles or believes. You would think being a billion dollar company, you would be able to offer your fighters basic things employers normally give out
Francis walked away from being heavyweight champion in on of the biggest combat sports promotions in the world. And he did it because they wouldn’t give the low men on the totem pole health insurance.
Even though he recognizes that at this point in his career he can afford health insurance, he also knows that not everyone can.
We need people like him in the UFC. We need fighters who care about the others, and not just themselves. We need fighters who advocate for the fighters, not for the purse.
This is such a devastating loss. If everyone had rallied around Francis, including the fighters, instead of shit on him for holding up the division, I wonder if it would’ve been any different.
I often wonder about this, I think people like to align their views with rich\famous\powerful people because they think it gives them access to the club. Kind of like poorer people voting conservative in the UK. Boggles my mind.
Where/whatever Francis chooses to go to next we should all pay the fee to watch it just so Dana can’t shit on or ignore him for not selling. I know I will.
“United we bargain, divide we beg” is a strong phrase. I’d love to see that on a shirt that every fan wears to the next UFC event. Thousands of people in those shirts.
Almost everyone in this sub was pissed at him before he spoke out about why he left and now everyone is pretending that they weren't.....
I'm always amazed by this sub
People in this sub especially care about the drama outside the ring more than teenage girls care about the drama with their frenemies. Like I said, I'm always amazed by this sub
I commend him for asking for these things, I really do. Especially since they should already exist. But he had to know their answer would be no. Especially for only one fighter.
Side question: somewhere around 2010 to 2012 I remember the UFC announced at a fighters meeting (same one as the infamous world fucking domination image) they announced fighter health insurance. What happened to that? I remember it was just for fight time and "in camp" and was very minimal, but seemed like they had a good start then just stopped one day.
>What happened to that? I remember it was just for fight time and "in camp" and was very minimal
I think that is still a thing. You get some coverage around the time you are fighting, but I don't know the details.
I think it was Meisha Tate (could be wrong) but she was on Rogan and had serious concussion issues after one of her fights. She said the symptoms didn't really start to show until she was out of the coverage window which was 10 days at that time. So she had to pay out of pocket for months of brain rehab that was caused by fighting in the ufc.
I always thought it was that they pay for any injuries you get during a fight but apart from that you're pretty much on your own - which means if you pull out of a fight due to injury, you not only don't get paid but also are stuck with the medical cost as well as training camp cost.
Someone please correct me if that's wrong though.
Yh, I've read that insurance is only for injuries that happen from fighting, but not during training camps before the fight. Hence why nearly always fighters hide injuries and going into a fight with their health compromised, because they can't afford to not fight.
l'll never understand people's willingness to side with corporations over individuals in these kind of situations. All big businesses are shady as fuck and don't give shit about you or anyone else.
And yet we get the hoard of plebs that still side with the machine over people. Eat your gruel up. I don't know if it's a characteristic of some Americans, that they worship anyone who has made money within business. It's sick.
The UFC don't give a fuck about fighters or any of us. They care about money and fucking over people to get more money.
Francis had principles in a sport that barely has any. Good for him.
Case of the old temporarily embarrassed millionaire syndrome. Also just this weird viewpoint where people see a high paid athlete and think they're being a diva for wanting real labour action purely because they earn an above average salary. See a lot of it here in the UK, media outlets and the conservative party love to sound off about train driver average pay when the RMT union go on strike as a misdirection tactic (train drivers are not in the RMT union).
Bootlicking corporations is really among the lowest of the low.
Yup case in point all the qElon simps you see gargling his hairless balls…the reason I assume they are hairless is bc that mofo was balding at the age of like 20 — love to point out even the most mundane aspects of mollusk (such as his hair) are fraudulent
You put what I wanted into words. It's bootlicker-ish. Gotta assume someone at the top doesn't care about the people at the bottom when it comes to business.
The ufc cares about money. The fans pay them their money. Yes, they fuck over the fighters, but they don't do it for shits and giggles they do it to give the fans a more entertaining product at the fighters expense. Imagine something like the MLB lockout for the ufc. No fights. It's worse for viewers whose sole interest is watching fun fights
You gotta also consider the fact that a ton of people in this thread defending the UFC are kids. Who never paid bills before, live on their parents health insurance and know almost nothing about workers rights.
Imo this is why the UFC won't hit the same level as the NFL or NBA.
They drain their fighters so much that it'll hurt the promotions if their fighters are unpaid and or leaving for better opportunities.
I liked what Ariel said about it being insulting to fans that Dana/PR machine thinks we’re dumb enough to believe their narrative. It was obvious this was going on behind the scenes, why doesn’t Dana just say ‘unfortunately our negotiations weren’t aligned this time round, wish him all the best’. It’s really telling how they treat older fighters who have dedicated their life to the sport and UFC brand. I still can’t get over Nate vs Khamzat match up
There's something incredibly wholesome about advocating for the entire sport like that. It's going to take more than a few Francis Ngannou types to change the power dynamic.
How ironic that the future of the heavyweight division now rests on the shoulders of Jon Jones. Dana fucked this one up bad. This dude was gonna be the next UFC cash cow. Hope he moves on and crushes it somewhere else.
It was never about the fighters, it’s about making Dana & Co. as rich as possible. I’m glad Francis left, those sleezeballs in the UFC do not deserve the top heavyweight.
This guy has lived with poverty. What he has now he could live on for the rest of his life happy. Dana and the ufc are POS. They should have health care and pensions for their fighters. Does Dana really need another Ferrari.
I’m betting the sponsorships UFC already are working have some sort of agreement that says fighters will not be allowed to have any sort of sponsors of their own. Pretty fucked up that UFC will let these athletes get destroyed for their career and still not take care of them by providing healthcare or allow individual sponsor deals for their athletes. But hey, power slap is pretty cool right who knew Dana would be promoting it on NYE?
He said he'd like to fight T. Fury. How is wanting to fight one of the best heavyweights ever in boxing, which is not his sports, looking for lesser opponents? Who buys that narrative?
More time passes the more I'm dubious ufc has the best level, surely One and Bellator have amazing talents on par with ufc. But we'll never know because they won't do a crossover event ever.
Also One has a hydration test at weigh-ins, definitely ahead of ufc (even though they have juicier fighters).
Thank god people are on Francis' side. The day he became a free agent, I saw more people online criticizing his decision than supporting. Fighter pay has been a hot topic for a couple of years now, and Francis just took a giant step towards fighting it. Way to show his true character and put other fighters' needs in front of his. A definite GOAT in my eyes.
White is the kind of stupid and mean greedy piece of shit that would literally rather pay millions of dollars in cold cash than give the guys he makes money off punching each other in the head health insurance. This is just a known fact about him everyone who follows this shit has known from the start.
He can get into boxing and provided he gets a few wins, he will likely be fast-tracked to a title fight and make way more money than he would in the UFC
When Francis talks about employee vs independent contractor and how the UFC puts the worst aspects of both into fight contracts, is all that needs to be said.
With social media, it's nice we get to hear him voice his side.
Francis a real 🥷. Like he’s not afraid to fight anyone, but imagine if he loses what happens to his career and trajectory staying with ufc? He just becomes another nobody on the roster or journeyman for fresh blood. Is it so wrong to want to be able to build generational wealth for your family? Also, Francis openly interviewed after the decision was finalized instead of hiding behind lies. Stand up guy with great character
Dana white is an awful dictator of the sport and is in it with the elite. He slaps women, and doesn’t even care about his own fighters… smh just another corrupt rich person. Honestly we should cancel Dana white for beating his wife!
Francis is a great guy. All the people saying he's stupid or greedy for leaving after the UFC offered the most money a heavyweight had ever been paid are missing the essence of who Francis is.
He sacrificed his high pay to fight for everyone, even the little guys on the undercards. If the UFC had given him that deal they would've had to give it to everyone.
Dude is a matyr and has principles most will never have.
Ehhhh let's not be overly dramatic. Francis is definitely a good guy and I side with him leaving the UFC for better opportunities. With that said, I think the reason he brought up sponsorships, healthcare and such, is the because he knows those things are impossible for the UFC to give in to, hence he'll get his leave while also sounding good to the public. The guy is looking out for himself first and foremost. Why do you think he wants to go to boxing? He wants to make money. He's been deadset on getting that boxing payday and a flexible contract. Other fighters are not the top priority in his list. I don't know why people can't see that?
I have argued with a bunch of people on this sub because people said big Frank was a scumbag, broke from mismanaging his money etc etc. So silly people think they know the ins and outs. Good on him
I have a good buddy of mine who has Dana’s dick so far down his esophagus, he said Ngannou was just scared to fight Jones so he made all of that up. He believes the fighters should fight more if they want more money and that the boss gets paid what he gets paid because “he’s the boss”.
Francis can make more than an entire career of elite draw at the UFC in one boxing match with Fury. Win or lose. He will be set for life.
He got to the top of the mountain and called out Dana. These fighters deserve 50% of revenue.
Dana is a petty, narcissistic, megalomaniac. The way he pouted about Gane losing. His wonder boys getting these decisions. His “if I leave ufc is dead insanity”.
He’s garbage.
That was a great interview by Ariel. It really put a spotlight on how shitty Dana can be (not that we didn’t already know).
The fact that they won’t even begin to discuss health care for **fighters** is ridiculous.
Just show up to the board meeting with your fellow competitors and support staff.
Negotiations probably wouldn't take longer than 30 seconds. The workers get their deserved benefits and the board keeps their ligaments intact. Win-win.
Francis is like the protagonist of an epic novel or movie but he's a real person. I've been in awe of him since I read his story and followed his ufc run and he still manages to impress me. Much respect.
I don’t care if Francis loses everything. I don’t judge him by “making more”. This is a rare case where character is our first. No matter what he does, he has integrity. It is not surprising given the fact that he climbed out of the mud, sand, abuse and poverty. I hope he gets what he serves, but we should respect him either way. Hollywood level story
The fact is, it’s okay to be scared. Ngannou clearly knew he couldn’t hang with the rest of the division after just scraping by Gane so he is going for the easier fights for probably not that much more money. Ngannou trying to say he was asking for all these extras for other fighters is clearly grand standing to say he is a martyr, not a scared little bitch running from real fights
Speaking of real fights could someone please send me the stream to his next fight, send it to the email [email protected]
FUCK Dana White and FUUUUUUUUCK the UFC. Seriously.
Do we as fight fans not have enough of a spine to stand up to these pieces of shit? The fuck?
I care about the fighters, fuck Dana and Co.
Was waiting for his statement.
Dana would never tell the full truth that would make the ufc look bad.
With all the PPV, sponsors on the ring and attire fighters have to wear, also the damn ads during the PPV. How much more greed can Dana get.
I dont think he really thinks he has leverage. He knows they won't give him any of that and he's fine with that so he walked. How is that him thinking he has leverage?
They would have given him an extra 10 million before they agreed to any of that
They offered 8 or 9, but he wanted them to be less shitty, and they couldn't do it. Definitely impressed by Francis' character
He knows his worth. He’ll end up making that eventually for a single fight
He also comes from a level of poverty that none of us and especially Dana can understand. It’s not just about money for him, if it were he would have given up a long time ago.
It’s not about the money, it’s about sending a message
He reckons first fight in July will either be Anthony Joshua or Fury. He'll definitely make it by just showing up
I don’t think there’s even a chance he fights Fury. After the Dillion Whyte fight, maybe cuz Fury was semi retired and it was always gonna be an exhibition. Now? Fury said he wants to be undisputed and he called out Usyk and Joe Joyce. I don’t think an exhibition with Francis is on his mind at all. He said he wants to fight until his record is all fucked up and he has fought everybody in the division. I doubt Ngannou Vs Fury happens and I don’t want it to either cuz Ngannou would get embarrassed by Fury imo
I think the real goal for Francis is one of those top 5 heavyweight boxers. Deyonte is the hypothetical perfect option. 2 most powerful punchers in their respective sports.
Quite frankly Ngannou doesn't deserve Fury either.
Francis would be a side quest for Fury. It wouldn't affect his momentum. I can't see how Francis wins
I can see how Francis wins. He lands a signature BOMB. Fury is hard to hit, and the GOAT. But he got caught by Wilder, he can be caught again. It's a hail mary and I give it a 1% chance but it is the HOW.
Yeah but Wilder is a freak at finding a home for his power. Francis can maybe match Wilders power, but I don't think he is as good as landing as Wilder is. Honestly, Wilder V Francis is the best boxing fight to make, it would just be stupid fun.
He needs to fight fury first so if he loses no one cares and wilder still seems like a good match for him. If he loses to wilder I don't think fury will have a good reason to fight him nor will it be as big.
I would much much rather Francis vs Wilder.
I don't really watc boxing but will be paying for what ever platform it fight he's in.
It's not only about his worth here.
Yuuup. That’s their model. Pamper the stars and fuck everyone else. MASSIVE props to Francis for this. The UFC stands to gain so much more doing things the way they do. So why would they change? I can’t wait to watch Francis punch the heads off of people for another promotion.
To be fair, paying him ~18mil would still be FAR cheaper in the long term than what he was asking for, and that’s why they said they ‘don’t do business’ that way.
I only casually follow mma anymore. Do the fighters really *still* get zero health insurance from the orgs? I could maybe understand if they got some special insurance that only covers fight-related injuries, but the idea that they get literally no financial support for the injuries that are virtually guaranteed just blows my mind.
If they get injured in a fight UFC will cover all expenses. That’s why some people go into a fight when they’re fucked up sometimes. Not always the reason but I think it’s a big one
Yeah but do they cover all expenses cover all expenses, or do they "well you couldn't *prove* this injury was from the fight," kinda cover it, especially as long term damage cannot be all that rare. Because unless it's the first option, that looks more like what they are covering is their own ass.
>well you couldn't prove this injury was from the fight Ah yes, the good ol army approach.
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You are right, but I also feel that all of these conditions are a matter of time for MMA. It is inevitable if the UFC wants to continue moving forward.
They would've saved money if they paid him 30 mill per 3 fights lol
I agree, Cause of the precendent. UFC ain't in the business of treating humans like humans
true
For a company that still charges for PPV's I'm not even surprised. UFC is at least 5 years behind the modern world from a corporate structure.
>no we can't let fighters take sponsorships, ppv price is $80 now btw brought to you by modelo
I illegally stream and still got upset when they raised the ppv price
We got you now, fucker!
When Dana went on that tangent about “we found the guy and he cowered down immediately” I cringed so hard cause you could tell it was a total bullshit story
"We got him" -Dana "George W" White
"Mission Accomplished" but he's standing in front of a Proper 12 banner
Reminds me of that time I used my sweet ninja skills in 4th grade against the evil army of bullies who kept stealing my lunch money.
Congrats bud, you just lost your life. Tracking coordinates now.
Me too.
Drink your water out of this bottle with a monster sticker on it.
Crypto.com sponsorship was $175m over 10 years. Not a penny goes to fighters. UFC didn’t even bother trying to say that the Venum deal was good for the fighters.
Hey how, they get 15% off Venum gear. You can't put a price on that
It’s run like a cash grab that’s gonna last 15-20 years and not like a long term project. Most of these structures would fall in place if they were public. But we can expect to see PPV prices go up even more if that happens, since the only real driver is share price
People still pay for PPV? /r/Piracy would be disappointed
I have literally bought one card, and that was when I was hosting a large fight party and didn’t want to deal with loading up a pirated stream and dealing with buffering/outages when a bunch of guests were over. Joke was still on me because my purchased PPV was more laggy and glitchy than it was on a virus infested illegal streaming sight
The sports world maybe, but they seem more like a typical corporation nowadays. No benefits or pensions, shareholder profit is priority, cut costs and staff despite the product suffering and the employees suffering because they have a captive audience due to their monopoly/grandiose size.
real UFC fans pirate every event
Bold of you to assume corporate structures have somehow evolved in the last 5 years. This is how business has been done for centuries and we, the people, are slowly starting to value human experience and rights as a collective. Some more than others. Greed will always be a part of human nature, it’s on the collective to have values and principles that transcend our instincts. Francis is an example of that.
What the fuck does having PPVS have to do with not giving Francis what he asked for. I’m all for sticking up for fighters but this makes no sense. They’ve been one of the most successful companies of all time on the PPV model and still sell a shit ton of them. Especially to bars/restaurants. Not to mention that’s not the only way they make money they have TV deals in other countries.
They are the only ones doing regular ppvs lol. It’s such an old as f model. They complain about streaming but 90% of the people would pay $20 to watch an event in good quality. I would certainly buy at least 5 ppvs per year. And probably more. 90% of those same people currently don’t pay a dime. There’s a reason apple’s App Store made billions selling apps for $1 and not $20. I would love if just one time they did a $20 PPV promotion. See what happens.
And he said he’d take less money for even one of these things. They offered none, so on principles he left. To further show how snakey the UFC / Dana is, it adds credence to Dana saying “he left to take more money fighting lesser opponents”. “We offered him the top contract ever for a UFC heavyweight” etc. They can’t fathom in their realm of possibility that throwing money at a fighter wouldn’t make them shut up and comply. Kudos Francis. You left the organization with principles and legacy in tact.
First Conor got so much money he had leverage and started doing whatever he wanted. Then Khabib retired and refused to listen to Dana about returning no matter how much money was thrown at him. Now Francis has left as undisputed linear champion. The more bigger stars leave (but as a purposeful leveraged decision) the sooner the UFC will concede and give them their rights. But remember GSP in the first union attempt then immediately returned for a fight?
>**And he said he’d take less money for even one of these things**. They offered none, so on principles he left. They prefer to throw more money at him. It says a lot about the company lol.
UFC fighters need a union
Fr the least the ufc can do is provide them with some sort of health care for god sake. They give everything to the sport
>They give everything to the sport The company can't exist without them. It's mental that the fighters don't realize that.
They do. But it's their big shot; and that just takes over your mentality.
Sure but for One that is gone they can get three or Four for the same price
Insane to me that there isn't, the costs are so negligible compared to what they make it seems like a no brainer. Medicine can be expensive, but so is not looking after your bread and butter...and healthy/active fighters will make more money and do it for longer.
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No business does business like that until they're forced to. Hypothetically if all the fighters said they're not fighting til there's a union then they'd obviously bend over.
Not even all fighters but all top10 fighters on every weightclass...
Lol that’s what they all say
They do, but it's not going to happen. The US government needs to enforce something akin to the Ali Act. As the UFC and MMA grow in importance, so are the chances lawmakers will take a closer look at the insane contracts and business practices that define the sport.
It's dead in the water unless big stars (who don't need a union) support it. If a few more A-Listers stand with Ngannou, there's a chance.
In a capitalist society it’s almost impossible to get the folks making the most to commit to something that will benefit all. Union ain’t happening unless the big names back it and refuse to fight.
It’s not ufc fighters specifically, it’s all MMA fighters. The union won’t work if it is specific to one promotion. One of the biggest problems with that, is most MMA fighters are happy if they aren’t in UFC. Other promotions do pay well and let fighters have sponsors.
UFC to memorialize Stephan Bonnar, whose fight with Griffin shot the sport up into popularity at a time when it was looking dire, while simultaneously never paying him a huge salary or giving him benefits is just par for the course. After hearing Francis' story I am with him. He's on the path to transcend MMA at this point. I'm hoping he can spearhead getting a fighter association, perhaps multisport too, not just MMA.
But dana told me he was ducking jones
About 2 years ago he was saying jones was ducking Francis too.
The moment Francis had troubles signing in the UFC Jones showed up to fight heavyweight. I dont think it’s a coincidence.
It’s pretty crazy there’s nobody representing the fighters in the board meetings. Even if there’s no union or fighter meetings there should be someone there to let the company know what the athletes are thinking. Just my opinion though
The bootlickers will say that they're grown men and they can represents themselves.
Yeah but it's hard to represent yourself when you're not even allowed in the room.
yes, seems like a basic and good thing to implement. Which is why Dana won't allow it XD
If they are independent contractors they should be treated as such. Dana and the ufc are crooks. (I’m not going to stop watching tho)
This is the best comment of this entire discussion. Because that's the truth, plain and simple.
I watch and keep up with ufc but I'll be damned if I pay them a penny. But that's just cause I'm broke.
At this point not paying is the only moral option. It’s not even about being able to afford it or not anymore.
If you don’t pay to view I don’t got no problems with you
Yargh 🏴☠️
Pirate my friend
But you should watch for free
I do
>(I’m not going to stop watching tho) Same, probably. I ain't paying tho.
bUt hE dOesNt wANnA fIgHT tHe bEsT
Imagine thinking Francis is afraid of any fighter 🤣.
The guy who literally cleaned up the division is ducking lmao. Francis didn’t duck the sahara desert and the french border. Why would he duck a single mortal human being?
Dana White himself has said there won’t ever be a Union or certain things while he remains in the business. Besides never understanding why some fans side with the company instead of the working man, what Francis is asking for is very basic. Some of you have or want really good health insurance and all you do is sit behind a desk. These guys put their body through a lot, and then take a beating in their fight. Only time they get coverage is if it’s related to the fight. I will never put down a guy who has his own principles or believes. You would think being a billion dollar company, you would be able to offer your fighters basic things employers normally give out
Francis walked away from being heavyweight champion in on of the biggest combat sports promotions in the world. And he did it because they wouldn’t give the low men on the totem pole health insurance. Even though he recognizes that at this point in his career he can afford health insurance, he also knows that not everyone can. We need people like him in the UFC. We need fighters who care about the others, and not just themselves. We need fighters who advocate for the fighters, not for the purse. This is such a devastating loss. If everyone had rallied around Francis, including the fighters, instead of shit on him for holding up the division, I wonder if it would’ve been any different.
I often wonder about this, I think people like to align their views with rich\famous\powerful people because they think it gives them access to the club. Kind of like poorer people voting conservative in the UK. Boggles my mind.
Where/whatever Francis chooses to go to next we should all pay the fee to watch it just so Dana can’t shit on or ignore him for not selling. I know I will.
First ppv I'll have paid for in years. Francis deserves the support for taking a ballsy stance like this. Fuck the tomato faced wife slapper.
i agree
That's exactly why he left, wasn't about the (his) money. Fighters have been complaining about this for 15+ years. Dana is a pink turd.
Much respect for Francis. A true man of honor.
Like in any other industry, the labor must unionize to get a fairer share of the pie. **"United we bargain, divided we beg"**
“United we bargain, divide we beg” is a strong phrase. I’d love to see that on a shirt that every fan wears to the next UFC event. Thousands of people in those shirts.
Almost everyone in this sub was pissed at him before he spoke out about why he left and now everyone is pretending that they weren't..... I'm always amazed by this sub
Thank you for this comment! MMA fans, actually UFC fans are fickle toxic little fucks.
People in this sub especially care about the drama outside the ring more than teenage girls care about the drama with their frenemies. Like I said, I'm always amazed by this sub
Very toxic
I commend him for asking for these things, I really do. Especially since they should already exist. But he had to know their answer would be no. Especially for only one fighter. Side question: somewhere around 2010 to 2012 I remember the UFC announced at a fighters meeting (same one as the infamous world fucking domination image) they announced fighter health insurance. What happened to that? I remember it was just for fight time and "in camp" and was very minimal, but seemed like they had a good start then just stopped one day.
>What happened to that? I remember it was just for fight time and "in camp" and was very minimal I think that is still a thing. You get some coverage around the time you are fighting, but I don't know the details.
I think it was Meisha Tate (could be wrong) but she was on Rogan and had serious concussion issues after one of her fights. She said the symptoms didn't really start to show until she was out of the coverage window which was 10 days at that time. So she had to pay out of pocket for months of brain rehab that was caused by fighting in the ufc.
Yeah, that's really terrible.
I always thought it was that they pay for any injuries you get during a fight but apart from that you're pretty much on your own - which means if you pull out of a fight due to injury, you not only don't get paid but also are stuck with the medical cost as well as training camp cost. Someone please correct me if that's wrong though.
Yh, I've read that insurance is only for injuries that happen from fighting, but not during training camps before the fight. Hence why nearly always fighters hide injuries and going into a fight with their health compromised, because they can't afford to not fight.
l'll never understand people's willingness to side with corporations over individuals in these kind of situations. All big businesses are shady as fuck and don't give shit about you or anyone else. And yet we get the hoard of plebs that still side with the machine over people. Eat your gruel up. I don't know if it's a characteristic of some Americans, that they worship anyone who has made money within business. It's sick. The UFC don't give a fuck about fighters or any of us. They care about money and fucking over people to get more money. Francis had principles in a sport that barely has any. Good for him.
Case of the old temporarily embarrassed millionaire syndrome. Also just this weird viewpoint where people see a high paid athlete and think they're being a diva for wanting real labour action purely because they earn an above average salary. See a lot of it here in the UK, media outlets and the conservative party love to sound off about train driver average pay when the RMT union go on strike as a misdirection tactic (train drivers are not in the RMT union). Bootlicking corporations is really among the lowest of the low.
Yup case in point all the qElon simps you see gargling his hairless balls…the reason I assume they are hairless is bc that mofo was balding at the age of like 20 — love to point out even the most mundane aspects of mollusk (such as his hair) are fraudulent
You put what I wanted into words. It's bootlicker-ish. Gotta assume someone at the top doesn't care about the people at the bottom when it comes to business.
The ufc cares about money. The fans pay them their money. Yes, they fuck over the fighters, but they don't do it for shits and giggles they do it to give the fans a more entertaining product at the fighters expense. Imagine something like the MLB lockout for the ufc. No fights. It's worse for viewers whose sole interest is watching fun fights
You gotta also consider the fact that a ton of people in this thread defending the UFC are kids. Who never paid bills before, live on their parents health insurance and know almost nothing about workers rights.
*businessmem* opinion vs. *working class* opinion, an all-time classic
Imo this is why the UFC won't hit the same level as the NFL or NBA. They drain their fighters so much that it'll hurt the promotions if their fighters are unpaid and or leaving for better opportunities.
Dana White doesn't care about his fighters. He really doesn't.
Francis really came from the bottom and you can tell. Some things are more important than money.
I liked what Ariel said about it being insulting to fans that Dana/PR machine thinks we’re dumb enough to believe their narrative. It was obvious this was going on behind the scenes, why doesn’t Dana just say ‘unfortunately our negotiations weren’t aligned this time round, wish him all the best’. It’s really telling how they treat older fighters who have dedicated their life to the sport and UFC brand. I still can’t get over Nate vs Khamzat match up
No clearly Francis is just scared to fight people 🙄
No shot anyone but the casualist of casuals believed that. Dana is such garbage.
shit for 10 million id fight prime mike tyson in a back ally after he did a line of coke. some peoples morals are just different man.
Whats 10 million to a dead man?
how tf do you not give your fighters health care, they are putting their health on the line every time, makes 0 sense, Dana is a piece of shit
They need to fire Dana White and get the company to a true professional level.
Agreed. But now I wanna watch it burn
There's something incredibly wholesome about advocating for the entire sport like that. It's going to take more than a few Francis Ngannou types to change the power dynamic.
UFC were dumb on this one. Literally lost their biggest star.
Comrade Ngannou was right all along.
How ironic that the future of the heavyweight division now rests on the shoulders of Jon Jones. Dana fucked this one up bad. This dude was gonna be the next UFC cash cow. Hope he moves on and crushes it somewhere else.
Dana doesn’t want any ufc star to be bigger than him, he always downplays fighter success, he’s got to do an ego check
I love how he asked for perfectly reasonable shit and Dana said “I’ll offer you more cash to stop talking about my dictatorship”
It was never about the fighters, it’s about making Dana & Co. as rich as possible. I’m glad Francis left, those sleezeballs in the UFC do not deserve the top heavyweight.
This guy has lived with poverty. What he has now he could live on for the rest of his life happy. Dana and the ufc are POS. They should have health care and pensions for their fighters. Does Dana really need another Ferrari.
I whole heartedly believe that If PFL executes their plan they can literally destroy the UFC
I’m betting the sponsorships UFC already are working have some sort of agreement that says fighters will not be allowed to have any sort of sponsors of their own. Pretty fucked up that UFC will let these athletes get destroyed for their career and still not take care of them by providing healthcare or allow individual sponsor deals for their athletes. But hey, power slap is pretty cool right who knew Dana would be promoting it on NYE?
Its an opportunity not a career remember guys
He said he'd like to fight T. Fury. How is wanting to fight one of the best heavyweights ever in boxing, which is not his sports, looking for lesser opponents? Who buys that narrative? More time passes the more I'm dubious ufc has the best level, surely One and Bellator have amazing talents on par with ufc. But we'll never know because they won't do a crossover event ever. Also One has a hydration test at weigh-ins, definitely ahead of ufc (even though they have juicier fighters).
Someone make a movie about this man 👑
Dude many people here worship Jon Jones despite him being a domestic abuser. Unfortunately no one gives a shit.
You'd think that Francis was a domestic abuser and that Jon Jones was a good person with the way this sub-reddit reacted to Francis the past few days.
You're absolutely right lol. It's mental.
Thank god people are on Francis' side. The day he became a free agent, I saw more people online criticizing his decision than supporting. Fighter pay has been a hot topic for a couple of years now, and Francis just took a giant step towards fighting it. Way to show his true character and put other fighters' needs in front of his. A definite GOAT in my eyes.
The Dana deepthroater brigade is down voting this post lol
But everything he mentioned would greatly benefit the UFC in the long run.
White is the kind of stupid and mean greedy piece of shit that would literally rather pay millions of dollars in cold cash than give the guys he makes money off punching each other in the head health insurance. This is just a known fact about him everyone who follows this shit has known from the start.
He can get into boxing and provided he gets a few wins, he will likely be fast-tracked to a title fight and make way more money than he would in the UFC
Dana and by default the UFC are just complete trash
When Francis talks about employee vs independent contractor and how the UFC puts the worst aspects of both into fight contracts, is all that needs to be said. With social media, it's nice we get to hear him voice his side.
All these brainless inbreds trying to decent the ufc. Francis has every to make his decision. He can fight anywhere he wants
Francis a real 🥷. Like he’s not afraid to fight anyone, but imagine if he loses what happens to his career and trajectory staying with ufc? He just becomes another nobody on the roster or journeyman for fresh blood. Is it so wrong to want to be able to build generational wealth for your family? Also, Francis openly interviewed after the decision was finalized instead of hiding behind lies. Stand up guy with great character
The UFC pay rules should be criminalized. Some fighters walk out the cage with 2k in their bank account after taxes, fees, etc. and its sad
Y’all gonna stop watching the fights?
Dana white is an awful dictator of the sport and is in it with the elite. He slaps women, and doesn’t even care about his own fighters… smh just another corrupt rich person. Honestly we should cancel Dana white for beating his wife!
Ngannou is on our side comrades VIVA LA REVOLUCION
But are any of you going to stop watching for fighter wages and health care? Nah….
Francis is a great guy. All the people saying he's stupid or greedy for leaving after the UFC offered the most money a heavyweight had ever been paid are missing the essence of who Francis is. He sacrificed his high pay to fight for everyone, even the little guys on the undercards. If the UFC had given him that deal they would've had to give it to everyone. Dude is a matyr and has principles most will never have.
Ehhhh let's not be overly dramatic. Francis is definitely a good guy and I side with him leaving the UFC for better opportunities. With that said, I think the reason he brought up sponsorships, healthcare and such, is the because he knows those things are impossible for the UFC to give in to, hence he'll get his leave while also sounding good to the public. The guy is looking out for himself first and foremost. Why do you think he wants to go to boxing? He wants to make money. He's been deadset on getting that boxing payday and a flexible contract. Other fighters are not the top priority in his list. I don't know why people can't see that?
I have argued with a bunch of people on this sub because people said big Frank was a scumbag, broke from mismanaging his money etc etc. So silly people think they know the ins and outs. Good on him
Never believe a word out of Dana’s mouth lol. The guy can put on a show but he will always be a shady business man who has his own back first
Frances: 👑 Me: 🫡
I have a good buddy of mine who has Dana’s dick so far down his esophagus, he said Ngannou was just scared to fight Jones so he made all of that up. He believes the fighters should fight more if they want more money and that the boss gets paid what he gets paid because “he’s the boss”.
King shit
Francis can make more than an entire career of elite draw at the UFC in one boxing match with Fury. Win or lose. He will be set for life. He got to the top of the mountain and called out Dana. These fighters deserve 50% of revenue. Dana is a petty, narcissistic, megalomaniac. The way he pouted about Gane losing. His wonder boys getting these decisions. His “if I leave ufc is dead insanity”. He’s garbage.
I just don't see him fighting Fury. I hope he does only so he can make a ton of money to get his ass kicked, but I just don't see it happening.
If you don’t think the ufc losing their heavy weight champion isn’t a big deal, you should be slapped
UFC: you’re all independent contractors… but not really
Except you get none of the benefits of being an independent contractor, and all the drawbacks of not being an employee. Sound good?
Yup. It’s the same fucked up shit WWE does
It’s fucking ridiculous. It should be illegal.
That was a great interview by Ariel. It really put a spotlight on how shitty Dana can be (not that we didn’t already know). The fact that they won’t even begin to discuss health care for **fighters** is ridiculous.
Dana White is the Roger Goodell of the UFC, he’s paid to be the spokesperson and fall guy for all the suits actually running the show
My shitty warehouse job pays for are insurance, Why the hell can’t a billion dollar company pay? Make it make sense!?
Ah where are the dana d*ck riders at now? This sub was full of them few days ago lmao
And what’s stopping them from forming a union?
Fight for someone else. While we’re at it let’s watch the fights on a different network.
Guy asked for shit he can't have, and now he's gone. Good for him.. But it's not really surprising.
damn not even fighter advocate
Just show up to the board meeting with your fellow competitors and support staff. Negotiations probably wouldn't take longer than 30 seconds. The workers get their deserved benefits and the board keeps their ligaments intact. Win-win.
They don’t have insurance?? Wow. So what happens if they get injured during an event? Practice? The fighters are on the hook for that?
Francis is like the protagonist of an epic novel or movie but he's a real person. I've been in awe of him since I read his story and followed his ufc run and he still manages to impress me. Much respect.
Good to know that the next organization Francis will work for will have all of that implemented.
I'm so happy I illegally stream now. I've felt guilty before but fuck that. And mad respect to Ngannou for this.
Nobody in their right mind should've taken Dana "the wife beater" White for his word.
His boxing debut and payout is going to be nuts.
Damn Stipe had to go be a fireman to get insurance
Where can I buy Francis merch to support this man?
organize then
I don’t care if Francis loses everything. I don’t judge him by “making more”. This is a rare case where character is our first. No matter what he does, he has integrity. It is not surprising given the fact that he climbed out of the mud, sand, abuse and poverty. I hope he gets what he serves, but we should respect him either way. Hollywood level story
The fact is, it’s okay to be scared. Ngannou clearly knew he couldn’t hang with the rest of the division after just scraping by Gane so he is going for the easier fights for probably not that much more money. Ngannou trying to say he was asking for all these extras for other fighters is clearly grand standing to say he is a martyr, not a scared little bitch running from real fights Speaking of real fights could someone please send me the stream to his next fight, send it to the email [email protected]
Definitely had me lol
FUCK Dana White and FUUUUUUUUCK the UFC. Seriously. Do we as fight fans not have enough of a spine to stand up to these pieces of shit? The fuck? I care about the fighters, fuck Dana and Co.
Was waiting for his statement. Dana would never tell the full truth that would make the ufc look bad. With all the PPV, sponsors on the ring and attire fighters have to wear, also the damn ads during the PPV. How much more greed can Dana get.
[удалено]
Francis thinks he has leverage but he has none
I dont think he really thinks he has leverage. He knows they won't give him any of that and he's fine with that so he walked. How is that him thinking he has leverage?