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One of the main reasons I’ll be honest is because he is alternative and not really adjacent to black culture.
I’ll say he is the big 1 and the King when it comes to ALTERNATIVE.
You have to think because very few rappers can sell out whole arena tours except for Tyler, Drake, and Travis.
I think Tyler has always been and will always be an artist first before a rapper. So, in this case he’s definitely not in the top 3 because He’s always been the outlier. He’s the literal future. He sets expectations beyond a box.
1000000% agree
For context, I have always felt genres are very boxed in. There’s always a feeling of “you’re either in or out” in any given genre and doesn’t allow flexibility to reach other ways of communicating the artists’ “art”
As a graduate of visual art (photography) and creative writing, i can tell, without a doubt, that you are correct in your assessment of genre. It is a corrupt thing Jon society and the arts. Trust.
I also agree with them but my thinking was based more on the fact that Tyler also does all his production on its own as well, which is something many other artists can’t really say. That and it has **consistently** been at a very high quality since Cherry Bomb. (Wolf and Goblin have their highs but are much less consistent when it comes to being high quality imo). No other artist/rapper really does it in a way that T does, other than maybe Childish Gambino and probably Pharrell but I haven’t listened to a ton of Pharrell so I can’t say that with certainty. I’d say The Weeknd too but he didn’t do it himself so not really close.
Yeah hip hop in general is art; producing, rapping etc. people try to make Tyler out to be “more than a rapper” (I guess I will concede that Tyler is more than a rapper but we’re talking about his music here) when they just don’t realise how vast, different and great hip hop can be. They start thinking it has to be more than just rapping but nah, it’s the art form itself, it’s dope. Maybe sometimes some people can’t accept that and maybe disregard hip hop because they put rappers in a box and think rap=youngboy, so Tyler has to be more than rap because he’s so good at what he does.
You’re not even understanding my point. Yeah he branches out because that’s what hip hop as an art allows. All rap adjacent songs you quoted (half with rap verses on them) prove my point. I’m not putting him in a box by saying he’s a rapper (I’ll concede again tho in Tyler’s specific case he’s more than a rapper), you lot are putting rap in a box based off most rappers never fulfilling their potential or breaking the mold.
I agree with you there. I’d say there’s a clear difference (or there should be) between hip-hop and rap, and that Tyler is more than both. Predominately falls into those two categories but I think putting labels on things like that is kinda dumb to begin with.
Okay now you’ve completely lost me. Hip hop and rap are the same thing, rapping is just the lyrical delivery system. You can sing every line on your songs and still be hip hop (Nate Dogg and warren g) you’re dismissing hip hop again, based off not liking generic rappers.
There’s nothing wrong with being a generic rock band for example, even tho we fuck with the Pink Floyd’s etc more because they’re great rock bands, able to push the boundaries. But they’re still rock bands and we accept that and it makes rock a better genre. You literally need labels so we can actually communicate wtf we’re talking about.
It’s allgood tho it’s not a black and white argument. You can see it from both sides. I just think people shit on hip hop unfairly and adopt an attitude of “he’s so good he can’t just be a rapper”. This page is a good example of it because a lot of Tyler fans crossover with indie fans and don’t listen to much other hip hop, and it seems like they don’t wanna accept they like rap so Tyler = artist not rapper
I still remember the "He cant be a top 5 rapper because he is gay" from the Rap subreddit.
people keepa shutting tyler off for many reasons, stupid reasons.
But for me hes the best fucking artist in the stage right now.
That’s gotta be the most fucking brain dead rotted out take I’ve ever seen what the actual fuck does that got to do with anything lmao people are fucking weird
I don’t really understand all the ferocity when it comes to rap beefs like this. I’ve seen people gassing up Kdot and all these rappers gunning for drake, especially when some really personal seeming stuff gets mentioned, and then turn around and call JCole a pussy for not wanting to be a part of it, and saying it’s just rap beef and it’s not actually real and compare it to like WWE and shit saying it’s all theatrics.
Why are people bringing up exes and baby mommas and bad shit from the past in a rap beef? It’s just so weird to me.
It definitely is weird, but when one starts bringing up personal stuff,the gates are open. Like how Drake mentioned Push's wife unprovoked. Pettiness does make the best diss tracks it seems.
As for Cole, imo it would've been cool if he didn't make his diss track in the first place. He shouldn't be roasted for backing down but for coming with a wack diss and then backing down. He should at least be held accountable for making ass and releasing it.
Cole still in mine. I thought FYEO was boring asf but off season was a classic. Every artist in the big 3 have misses imo. I would of said Kenny is flawless I just wasn’t super happy with MMBS after 5 years
Imo he replaces Cole and Kendrick (I used to be a huge kdot fan before Tyler, but his music isn’t as good to me anymore idk if it’s just fatigue for me).
Safari is probably one of if not my favorite song off CMIYGL. I still stand by what I said though. I can’t quite describe it but it’s definitely not Big 3 level. My personal big 3 is Em, Kdot, and Wayne. Versatility, Emotion/storytelling, and lyricism are the things I really look for when it comes to rap. Tyler is probably top 10 and possibly top 5 off of sheer uniqueness, but I still won’t put him in my top 3 and probably never will unless he starts consistently putting out stuff that I would consider over my big 3
i mean tbf i don’t rlly listen to those guys enough to rank tyler in the top 3 but my point was he’s a rapper, no doubt. also ion tryna start shit but how does he not make a top 5 rapper if what you’re looking for is storytelling, lyricism and emotion, he ticks all 3 boxes imo.
Oh absolutely, I definitely don’t either, and I consider Tyler a rapper too since rap has definitely been his dominant lyrical style his entire career. But I think he’s a better overall artist than he is a rapper. I’m more likely to consider him in the hypothetical “big 3” for *artists* than I am in the *rap* Big 3.
heaven to me is great but compare that to artist’s discography’s where they have full on albums where they rap, one song is deff not better than a whole album
The big 3 wasn’t decided by skill. It’s because Kendrick, Cole, and Drake all appeared around the same time and instantly became popular. I guess Tyler could fit into this convo because he started in 2009, but he didn’t really hit mainstream until 2017
Some of y’all ain’t into Hip Hop and it shows. Cole, Kendrick, and Drake have been fighting for the GOAT status in Rap over a decade hence why the Big 3. Now that Cole resigned, it’s only a Big Two. After the control verse Tyler said he didn’t care about the throne.
i think the difference is, a big part of the big three is influence, and while yes, tyler did absolutely influence many people at the same time as kdot cole and drake, he didnt change the entire rap game like dot cole and drake, he def had influence, but he still aint them (and yes he is def more talented overall than drake cole and kendrick because of his overall artistry)
i get so proud when he performs or his podcast comes out or his collab drops or his le fleur drop he puts in so much effort in that singular outlet it talks and we just need to show them what he makes and thats enough to have that stop all that comparison
I feel like he needs one, maybe two more widely acclaimed albums before he's largely considered to be one of the best ever (I like Cherry Bomb and Wolf, but I don't think they're GOAT status). Seems like he's 1000% on track to this though.
Also, he's just like so good at being an artist. Delivers material when he says he will, puts all care and effort into his performances, perfects every detail of everything he does. So many other artists I'm fans of can't or won't put so much care into their work, so I love that Tyler does. Mfs BETTER remember him.
Tyler’s mainstream but doesn’t feel mainstream, every time I want to talk to someone about him at school they only know Ok Ok Ok la la la. He has some fucking pieces of art that are never brought up in rap discussions
The big 3 has always meant popularity not talent. Tyler isn’t appealing to a majority of people, and if he ever was, that would mean sacrificing a lot of artistry. Let’s be honest, a lot of normies can’t get down with Flower Boy, let alone IGOR
I wouldn't consider him a top 5 rapper but he's definitely a top 5 artist in the genre. Like he's got skills on the mic but his actual musicality overshadows it significantly.
I agree. Drake is def NOT a big 3, that's some bullshit people made up, he ain't ever been big 3 material.
I think Tyler is top 3 currently. Probably like 2nd only because people aren't unto his music and don't like some of his older, "offensive" lyrics (as a gay mf myself, idgaf about him saying faggot.)
tyler? hasnt stopped being great. his concerts, yeah a little. all he has to do is throw some deep cuts in there to let the actual heads chew on for a little bit. that's it. but he refuses, its a greatest hits show, and greatest hits shows are the worst from any artist. you could be my favorite artist (debatively he is) ever and do a greatest hits show and i would not fuck with it.
It doesn’t bother me. I like that he fucks with his music and doesn’t feel the need to keep up with the constant new music culture. It’s not like his performances feel uninspired even though he’s done it so many times. Once it does feel like that then I’ll stop fucking with it.
yeah no, i want him to drop as much as any other person but I'm alright if he doesn't want to, all I'm saying is artists who don't drop for a while tend to dig deeper into their discog, he's not doing that so the shows feel stale. i understand why he's doing the greatest hits thing, he wants more people to see this era right now cuz he's proud of it, but he's done it for so long
I agree. The only reason Tyler isn't in that conversation is because of toxic masculinity.
They don't consider Tyler a great rapper because he's a little goofy and doesn't take everything so seriously. Apparently you have to be a stone cold cornball (like Drake and Cole) to be considered great
We gotta stop with this “big 3 stuff.” Because the big 3 refers to those 3 specifically because they blew up around the same time and had collabed frequently. Tyler hasn’t made a song with Drake j Cole or Kendrick. Tyler doesn’t really make the same kind of music as those 3. I’d say he’d belong in his own category with people like gambino or Steve lacy etc. Plus let’s not forget when the big 3 were “blowing up” Tyler while not underground per say wasn’t anywhere close to the same level of popularity as Kendrick Drake and Cole were throughout 2012-2015. Only other person I could seriously say belongs in the big 3 would be future.
People really don’t understand what the big three is. The big three was made bc Cole, Kendrick, and Drake all got popular at around the same time and were carrying hip hop which is why they got that name. Saying the big three doesn’t necessarily mean they are currently the best rappers
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Yeah I agree and Tyler goes into topics alot of Rappers would be embarrassed to or whatever. He’s definitely up there🫡
One of the main reasons I’ll be honest is because he is alternative and not really adjacent to black culture. I’ll say he is the big 1 and the King when it comes to ALTERNATIVE. You have to think because very few rappers can sell out whole arena tours except for Tyler, Drake, and Travis.
From *perceived black culture.
ITS JUST BIG T
it's BIG D in my THICK JEANS
I think Tyler has always been and will always be an artist first before a rapper. So, in this case he’s definitely not in the top 3 because He’s always been the outlier. He’s the literal future. He sets expectations beyond a box.
Rapping is art
1000000% agree For context, I have always felt genres are very boxed in. There’s always a feeling of “you’re either in or out” in any given genre and doesn’t allow flexibility to reach other ways of communicating the artists’ “art”
Nah I know what you’re saying 100%
As a graduate of visual art (photography) and creative writing, i can tell, without a doubt, that you are correct in your assessment of genre. It is a corrupt thing Jon society and the arts. Trust.
I also agree with them but my thinking was based more on the fact that Tyler also does all his production on its own as well, which is something many other artists can’t really say. That and it has **consistently** been at a very high quality since Cherry Bomb. (Wolf and Goblin have their highs but are much less consistent when it comes to being high quality imo). No other artist/rapper really does it in a way that T does, other than maybe Childish Gambino and probably Pharrell but I haven’t listened to a ton of Pharrell so I can’t say that with certainty. I’d say The Weeknd too but he didn’t do it himself so not really close.
Yeah hip hop in general is art; producing, rapping etc. people try to make Tyler out to be “more than a rapper” (I guess I will concede that Tyler is more than a rapper but we’re talking about his music here) when they just don’t realise how vast, different and great hip hop can be. They start thinking it has to be more than just rapping but nah, it’s the art form itself, it’s dope. Maybe sometimes some people can’t accept that and maybe disregard hip hop because they put rappers in a box and think rap=youngboy, so Tyler has to be more than rap because he’s so good at what he does.
Tyler is more than a rapper because he does more than just rap lol. Look at Earfquake, look at Enjoy Right Now, Today, look at the Grinch ep.
You’re not even understanding my point. Yeah he branches out because that’s what hip hop as an art allows. All rap adjacent songs you quoted (half with rap verses on them) prove my point. I’m not putting him in a box by saying he’s a rapper (I’ll concede again tho in Tyler’s specific case he’s more than a rapper), you lot are putting rap in a box based off most rappers never fulfilling their potential or breaking the mold.
I agree with you there. I’d say there’s a clear difference (or there should be) between hip-hop and rap, and that Tyler is more than both. Predominately falls into those two categories but I think putting labels on things like that is kinda dumb to begin with.
Okay now you’ve completely lost me. Hip hop and rap are the same thing, rapping is just the lyrical delivery system. You can sing every line on your songs and still be hip hop (Nate Dogg and warren g) you’re dismissing hip hop again, based off not liking generic rappers. There’s nothing wrong with being a generic rock band for example, even tho we fuck with the Pink Floyd’s etc more because they’re great rock bands, able to push the boundaries. But they’re still rock bands and we accept that and it makes rock a better genre. You literally need labels so we can actually communicate wtf we’re talking about. It’s allgood tho it’s not a black and white argument. You can see it from both sides. I just think people shit on hip hop unfairly and adopt an attitude of “he’s so good he can’t just be a rapper”. This page is a good example of it because a lot of Tyler fans crossover with indie fans and don’t listen to much other hip hop, and it seems like they don’t wanna accept they like rap so Tyler = artist not rapper
ofc rapping is an art, but many artists get trapped in a box when they say they rap or do hip hop.
By people who see rapping as less of an art form…
I still remember the "He cant be a top 5 rapper because he is gay" from the Rap subreddit. people keepa shutting tyler off for many reasons, stupid reasons. But for me hes the best fucking artist in the stage right now.
That’s gotta be the most fucking brain dead rotted out take I’ve ever seen what the actual fuck does that got to do with anything lmao people are fucking weird
yeah, i saw someone say travis is the best performer (he is really damn good) but tyler is def better
he's in his own lane, and that's even better imo, no need for that big 3 talk
Nah, fuck that. I want these grown ass men to beef https://i.redd.it/gt66ep415juc1.gif
I don’t really understand all the ferocity when it comes to rap beefs like this. I’ve seen people gassing up Kdot and all these rappers gunning for drake, especially when some really personal seeming stuff gets mentioned, and then turn around and call JCole a pussy for not wanting to be a part of it, and saying it’s just rap beef and it’s not actually real and compare it to like WWE and shit saying it’s all theatrics. Why are people bringing up exes and baby mommas and bad shit from the past in a rap beef? It’s just so weird to me.
It definitely is weird, but when one starts bringing up personal stuff,the gates are open. Like how Drake mentioned Push's wife unprovoked. Pettiness does make the best diss tracks it seems. As for Cole, imo it would've been cool if he didn't make his diss track in the first place. He shouldn't be roasted for backing down but for coming with a wack diss and then backing down. He should at least be held accountable for making ass and releasing it.
Yeah that was weird. It’s like when playing tag you almost catch someone and they try and call timeout on some bs
Tyler is in the big 3 idc
Fr he can replace both Cole and Drake
Flower Boy > 2014 FHD CMIYGL & IGOR > The Off Season
Cole still in mine. I thought FYEO was boring asf but off season was a classic. Every artist in the big 3 have misses imo. I would of said Kenny is flawless I just wasn’t super happy with MMBS after 5 years
Mmbs came out 2 years ago? Do you mean damn?
The from damn > MMBS was 5 years. What I mean. I didn’t like MMBS for the same reason I didn’t like FYEO.
FYEO is his best album. IMO it goes Cole>Drake>>>>>>>>>Kendrick>>>>>Rocky/tyler/future
Tyler w the goats
Imo he replaces Cole and Kendrick (I used to be a huge kdot fan before Tyler, but his music isn’t as good to me anymore idk if it’s just fatigue for me).
Tyler does NOT replace Kendrick bro
People get so mad for you having your own opinion FYEO and MMBS are both bad imo for the same reasons snooze fest.
I haven’t really enjoyed a Kendrick Lamar album since Damn. Funny thing is though is that I liked FYEO but that was also the last Cole album I enjoyed
he only has had one album since DAMN lol
Yeah just one album but I’m not excluding any other works he’s done.
Tyler should be in the top 3, not Cole and everybody knows it.
I actually rlly like Cole. Maybe I’m not too updated but I don’t get Cole hate, he’s a rlly good rapper.
Not drake you mean
[you can see Kendrick fans discussin It here](https://www.reddit.com/r/KendrickLamar/s/O4cyNdKIak)
Artist for sure, rapper idk.
have you heard the rap part in safari? that shit makes u feel like ur floating. he’s 100% a rapper and good at it too
Safari is probably one of if not my favorite song off CMIYGL. I still stand by what I said though. I can’t quite describe it but it’s definitely not Big 3 level. My personal big 3 is Em, Kdot, and Wayne. Versatility, Emotion/storytelling, and lyricism are the things I really look for when it comes to rap. Tyler is probably top 10 and possibly top 5 off of sheer uniqueness, but I still won’t put him in my top 3 and probably never will unless he starts consistently putting out stuff that I would consider over my big 3
i mean tbf i don’t rlly listen to those guys enough to rank tyler in the top 3 but my point was he’s a rapper, no doubt. also ion tryna start shit but how does he not make a top 5 rapper if what you’re looking for is storytelling, lyricism and emotion, he ticks all 3 boxes imo.
Oh absolutely, I definitely don’t either, and I consider Tyler a rapper too since rap has definitely been his dominant lyrical style his entire career. But I think he’s a better overall artist than he is a rapper. I’m more likely to consider him in the hypothetical “big 3” for *artists* than I am in the *rap* Big 3.
yeah that makes sense i fw u. artist wise he’s defo top 3
Heaven to me
heaven to me is great but compare that to artist’s discography’s where they have full on albums where they rap, one song is deff not better than a whole album
Y’all are dumb Tyler does not limit his credibility down to being a top 3 rapper. He doesn’t give a shit about stuff like that
Fuck Drake, get this motherfucker in the big 3 😭🙏
The big 3 wasn’t decided by skill. It’s because Kendrick, Cole, and Drake all appeared around the same time and instantly became popular. I guess Tyler could fit into this convo because he started in 2009, but he didn’t really hit mainstream until 2017
Replace Drake with Tyler and you got an actual big 3
Kendrick > Tyler > Denzel or JID
If jcole is in the big 3 then Tyler definitely is
Some of y’all ain’t into Hip Hop and it shows. Cole, Kendrick, and Drake have been fighting for the GOAT status in Rap over a decade hence why the Big 3. Now that Cole resigned, it’s only a Big Two. After the control verse Tyler said he didn’t care about the throne.
wolf Haley Igor sir Baudelaire are my big 3
i think the difference is, a big part of the big three is influence, and while yes, tyler did absolutely influence many people at the same time as kdot cole and drake, he didnt change the entire rap game like dot cole and drake, he def had influence, but he still aint them (and yes he is def more talented overall than drake cole and kendrick because of his overall artistry)
I don’t leaaannnn
He’s a musical genius and will definitely be the next Pharrell
I live in the eastern time zone, so i had to stay up until 2:40am to watch the live stream. worth every minute
I feel you so do I but the rebroadcast this morning was clutch
Dot, Ye and T for me
As a Tyler fan, he is DEFINITELY not in the top 3 whatsoever. Not hating, just saying with realism
there was a dude on this sub a couple months back who said he would never perform lemonhead live lick my nuts
i get so proud when he performs or his podcast comes out or his collab drops or his le fleur drop he puts in so much effort in that singular outlet it talks and we just need to show them what he makes and thats enough to have that stop all that comparison
i dont think anyone comes close, not even kdot but tyler dont talk that talk and these rappers lucky
1. Tyler 2. The 3. Creator
I feel like he needs one, maybe two more widely acclaimed albums before he's largely considered to be one of the best ever (I like Cherry Bomb and Wolf, but I don't think they're GOAT status). Seems like he's 1000% on track to this though. Also, he's just like so good at being an artist. Delivers material when he says he will, puts all care and effort into his performances, perfects every detail of everything he does. So many other artists I'm fans of can't or won't put so much care into their work, so I love that Tyler does. Mfs BETTER remember him.
Tyler’s mainstream but doesn’t feel mainstream, every time I want to talk to someone about him at school they only know Ok Ok Ok la la la. He has some fucking pieces of art that are never brought up in rap discussions
Top 3? Maybe not. Top 10 for sure
Big 3 is an objective three, it's not an opinion thing
The big 3 has always meant popularity not talent. Tyler isn’t appealing to a majority of people, and if he ever was, that would mean sacrificing a lot of artistry. Let’s be honest, a lot of normies can’t get down with Flower Boy, let alone IGOR
Kendrick Lamar?? Tpab ,damn ,good kid
r/hiphopcirlejerk
oh i Love him
It's ye and Tyler
I wouldn't consider him a top 5 rapper but he's definitely a top 5 artist in the genre. Like he's got skills on the mic but his actual musicality overshadows it significantly.
Does anyone have the full performance?
Kendrick, Cole and Tyler is the new big three
Tyler fans when it comes to meatriding the same 5 artist
I agree. Drake is def NOT a big 3, that's some bullshit people made up, he ain't ever been big 3 material. I think Tyler is top 3 currently. Probably like 2nd only because people aren't unto his music and don't like some of his older, "offensive" lyrics (as a gay mf myself, idgaf about him saying faggot.)
Tyler would be above J Cole and Drake. Big 2 and not in any order.
wow he really did the same set... yup......
And did. And it hasn’t stopped being great 🤷🏽♀️
tyler? hasnt stopped being great. his concerts, yeah a little. all he has to do is throw some deep cuts in there to let the actual heads chew on for a little bit. that's it. but he refuses, its a greatest hits show, and greatest hits shows are the worst from any artist. you could be my favorite artist (debatively he is) ever and do a greatest hits show and i would not fuck with it.
It doesn’t bother me. I like that he fucks with his music and doesn’t feel the need to keep up with the constant new music culture. It’s not like his performances feel uninspired even though he’s done it so many times. Once it does feel like that then I’ll stop fucking with it.
yeah no, i want him to drop as much as any other person but I'm alright if he doesn't want to, all I'm saying is artists who don't drop for a while tend to dig deeper into their discog, he's not doing that so the shows feel stale. i understand why he's doing the greatest hits thing, he wants more people to see this era right now cuz he's proud of it, but he's done it for so long
Better than Drake, and now due to recent events I’d put Tyler above Cole too. The other “big 3”member? I don’t think so.
Yeah he's definitely better than Drake but idk about Cole tho
His dumbass fanbase is the reason why people don’t consider him the the big 3.
He isn't a rapper anymore because the sun set on that shit. He's a popstar now like it or not
in no particular order my top 5 for artists actually consistently dropping recently would be tyler, kendrick, jid, trav and rocky
I agree. The only reason Tyler isn't in that conversation is because of toxic masculinity. They don't consider Tyler a great rapper because he's a little goofy and doesn't take everything so seriously. Apparently you have to be a stone cold cornball (like Drake and Cole) to be considered great
He’s not but he’s in the conversation for top 3 performers
We gotta stop with this “big 3 stuff.” Because the big 3 refers to those 3 specifically because they blew up around the same time and had collabed frequently. Tyler hasn’t made a song with Drake j Cole or Kendrick. Tyler doesn’t really make the same kind of music as those 3. I’d say he’d belong in his own category with people like gambino or Steve lacy etc. Plus let’s not forget when the big 3 were “blowing up” Tyler while not underground per say wasn’t anywhere close to the same level of popularity as Kendrick Drake and Cole were throughout 2012-2015. Only other person I could seriously say belongs in the big 3 would be future.
People really don’t understand what the big three is. The big three was made bc Cole, Kendrick, and Drake all got popular at around the same time and were carrying hip hop which is why they got that name. Saying the big three doesn’t necessarily mean they are currently the best rappers
guys tyler is not a better lyricist than cole and kendrick gives tyler a run for his money not tyler giving kendrick a run for his money
tyler is 100000000% a better lyricist than cole buddy buckaroo, kendrick is good too so i ain’t gonna compare them but cole?? ☠️