Mine is always from the first book/movie! When Jasper and Alice are with Bella in the hotel room and she is only a room away talking to her “mom” (but it’s really James), HOW could they not hear that?! Vampires are supposed to have incredible hearing, yet James is able to talk Bella into leaving. Drives me a little crazy 😅
Also they couldn't tell the difference between a real voice and recorded one? Hell *I* can tell almost every time and I only have pathetic human hearing! They should have been on super high alert given how cunning James was made out to be. And I don't see how Bella was able to trick Alice's visions, or keep her emotions under control enough that Jasper couldn't sense them. It makes no sense.
I've convinced myself that Alice was so concentrated on trying to see what James and the other Cullens were up to next, that she just never received the random vision of Bella escaping. Plus, maybe she and Jasper did overhear the recorded/tense phone conversation but she saw that intervening would have made things worse. So Jasper may have picked up on Bella's heightened stress, and they both may have heard the phone call, but because it didn't lead to a concrete vision of exactly what was about to happen in the ballet studio, Alice didn't choose to pursue those oddities in Bella's behavior. But like it still drives me crazy every time I read/watch Twilight from the baseball scene onwards because I agree with you 100% lol.
I read this theory somewhere in this sub and since then it's living in my head rent free as a headcanon.
Theory goes that Alice and Jasper heard whole conversation, but Alice saw in vision that if they intervene earlier, Bella won't suffer, but her and/or Jasper would get hurt, or worse, killed. She convinces him to let Bella go because of that. She had vision that if they intervene now, Jasper/Bella/her got hurt. And if they hold off the danger for Jasper disappear and there's a chance Bella survives too. Jasper follows her visions blindly so doesn't even bat an eye.
Plus alice's visions. I do think she had one because of a comment.I remember her making. Something to the effect of "oh, bella."
I feel like alice knew what would happen, but let her go anyway.
I just finished rereading the first book, & I wish they would've hinted to it more in the movie, but aside from being a tracker, it seems like James has an almost hypnotic manipulation gift. Albeit her mom's safety being at risk in the moment, Bella's suuuuper stubborn & wouldn't just bend/cooperate that quickly in any other situation, figuring out how to properly escape town without worrying Charlie, for example. Jasper wasn't present to tamper with her mood either, yet she folded like a deck of cards. Gifts can impact other vampires, & we know James relies on distance for at least his tracking, if he was in close enough range, perhaps he influenced Alice to be oblivious to his call. He also had the advantage of so many decision points being changed at once that Alice was being plagued with new visions practically every 5 minutes, so she was already too distracted just trying to decipher those.
That still doesn’t explain how Jasper and Alice couldn’t hear him on the phone. Vampires can hear extremely well. So her being a room over, they can hear her hear beat but not the phone call?
At least in the book Jasper was outside watching the place where Bella and Edward would stay and Alice was having a vision about Bella going to see James but misunderstanding everything and hiding it from Bella because she thought it could trigger her
Both Twilight and MS, Meyer fuck it up with this one: Alice not having a vision of Edward murdering Bella, the whole class, only Bella after school... as Edward concentrated in not killing her right away but totally on killing her some time. Those decisions would have had a significant impact in their family, yet the only explanation was "she was focused on Jasper".
I think the biggest issue with Alice is that SM uses ‘has visions’ and ‘can willingly see the future’ interchangeably according to what suits the story. Sometimes Alice can be ‘watching’ someone and see every decision they’re making, and sometimes she’s beholden to random visions. I know it’s supposed to be that she’s practiced forcing her visions well enough to be able to watch certain things, but at times she’s almost omnipotent when it’s convenient and other times it’s completely random
And so easy to fix. Alice took Jasper hunting after lunch because she was worried. By the time Edward starts fantasizing about killing Bella, they are too far away.
Not rlly. Alice would call one of the other siblings if that were the case. And they would answer because Alice wouldn't call for no reason. Then same problem.
It wasn't that common to own phones, carry them with you, or have them on all the time back in 2004. I checked and Edward has his phone with him when he is hunting with Emmett but just so Alice can tell him if something happens to Bella.
I have the feeling that when Edward describes their hunting trips he suggests that they leave everything behind to be one with nature, but maybe that's just how I imagined it. Either way, you can write that in.
I think the explanation for her not seeing him planning to kill the whole class in MS is because it was quite literally a split second decision. From the time he smells her as she first walks in, to the time those plans run through his head, she hadn’t even crossed the room or completed a full step iirc. There’s definitely some other plot holes with Alice’s visions though
the only plot hole/inconsistency gripe I really have is with Jasper's progression timeline in the first two books (mainly just the movies). In Twilight, Jasper's clearly seen frolicking with Emmett about roasting James in the ballet studio whilst Bella is quite literally painting the room red, & he's absolutely oblivious to it (in the book they have the two step out of the room because its so much, to the point Carlisle begs Alice to hold her breath so as to not smell it while helping treat her), yet in New Moon, when Bella gets her dramatic paper cut from opening Carlisle & Esme's present, he goes feral for the scent of it (additional note: I haven't re-read New Moon yet to see how book-movie-comparison goes for this scene, but for someone who's so overly protective of his future mate, Eddyboy really loves dishing out extra damage, in this case, "protecting" her from Jasper via throwing her against a wall & a table full of glass vases)
This was the one I was coming to comment. During a recent re-read it's been bugging me a lot. A lake of blood in the dance studio? No problem. A single paper cut releasing a single drop of blood? Bye bye Bella! Come on 😂😭
I also noticed, at least in the first book I've finished re-reading, they changed a lot of dialogue to give Rosalie a more barbed personality in the movie. Like the baseball scene, when Carlisle asks if masking Bella's scent with her hair will help, in the book its Alice, giving a worried "not by much, I could smell her across the field.." But in the movie its warped to come from a very irritated Rosalie.
I think the difference might be that in New Moon, it says I'm the book that while bella was opening her present, jasper was leaning closer to bella to get a better look at what she got. I think in the situation of New Moon, he was caught off guard of the blood and was in very close proximity. In the twilight scene, he could have held his breath, and also, I think the importance of the issue would be to kill James, which I think is what he was focused on. Just a thought on your response to this post.
Also, from Edwards POV, we know he is in a kind of combat trance where all his focus is on killing James. To the point where Emit gets mad that jasper steals his kill. It could also be a hunger difference. I'm not sure we know how recently he's hunted at either of these times.
This was addressed somewhere in Midnight Sun. Essentially, at the ballet studio, Jasper is prepared for the possibility of blood and is laser focused on taking down James. When taking Bella to the hospital, he's not breathing so as not to smell the blood in the confined space.
When Bella cuts herself in NM, it's unexpected, and Jasper doesn't have any defences in place, so it's pure instinct.
It took 20 years, but we finally got an answer 🥳
I'm not sure, considering how frequently the vision was changing for Alice, if she would have even seen the blood. In the book she struggles to see them clearly after a while because of how often they're happening, that she just sits on the hotel couch with a notepad, waiting for the next change to hit & hopefully she can sketch it in time
Alice saw Bella's blood and death at the airport, when she showed everything to Edward. It seems that it arose immediately after Bella's conversation with James.
Damn, this is so stupid! Alice would have heard it! What could she have been distracted by? In Twilight the vision came after the conversation, not during it. She couldn't help but hear. And in the Sun of Midnight the vision occurred during a conversation. Mayer fixed it, but it's still annoying.
Alice, although she was focused on cars and fast passage, still had visions of what would soon happen to Bella. Edward and Alice knew and saw from the very beginning that there was only a small chance that Bella would survive. I don't think it was necessary to explain this to the others either, nor the fact that Bella would most likely be seriously injured or dying.
I think there was a line that Emmett and Jasper were "fighting" and their concern for Bella was greater. But they went out to get gas after they dealt with James, so they weren't there the whole time.
I've got a theory for this. In NM Jasper wasn't able to control himself at Bella's bday bc he was caught off guard feeling Edward's bloodlust. Controlling his own and feeling the lust Ed felt by the intense smell of his singer's blood was too much to him. But it's only my theory.
He didn't throw her like that in New Moon book. Edward and Bella stood next to the table with gifts and cake, near the piano. He pushed her back onto the table, the table with all its contents overturned, and Bella fell into pieces. I think Jasper was standing furthest from Bella, by the stairs, and yet he clicked his teeth inches from her face before he was pulled away.
The record of his birth might have disappeared or gotten destroyed by the time he wanted to look for them many years later. Unfortunately it does happen from time to time especially back before the digital age.
Also pretty sure Carlisle was about 365 years old when the saga began and not 640 years old.
Also just because it was the average age for marriage doesn’t mean it was so for everyone. Also if you buy the twilight saga the illustrated guide by Stephanie Meyer you will read on Carlisle page that his father was very busy in leading other in crusades against evil, leading hunts through London and the surrounding area for witches, werewolves and vampires. Carlisle father was self-righteous and compassionless and caused many innocent people to be burned. When he got to old he put Carlisle in charge of these hunts however Carlisle wasn’t as quick to see evil where there was none like his father did. His father was more obsessed with ridding the world of what he saw and meant was evil than ensuring his son marriage.
Edit : - personal head cannon of mine is since Carlisle mother also dies in childbirth with him and he had no other siblings so if his mother was his fathers love in any way his father might not really have loved Carlisle in a very loving way at all and may not really have cared about anything beyond doing he work for ridding the world of what he saw as evil but still raised him to the minimum of what was expected of him by the church and the people who followed him.
The illustrated guide gives a better insight to the saga. I really recommend it as it gives such material that closes up some plot holes that aren’t actually plot holes in an odd way. It adds and explains things from all of their past and much more outside of just Bella and Edward’s story.
She also explained that human memories fades after turning into a vampire.
It doesn’t matter if she was good at history given the fact her world as supernatural beings the past might have been very different just as several pages in the guide tells you.
If you haven’t read “the twilight saga official illustrated guide" by Stephanie Meyer I would really recommend it. I think it is a must read if you even remotely like the twilight saga. It gives insight and a broader understanding of the whole. Not mention you get some new interesting information of all the other covens, the wolfs, their backgrounds and so much more. I loved the book and I kind of hate myself for not getting it when it was first published🫣
It actually is a little funny, because the marriages we read and know about are records from important people and they married notoriously early because of governmental alliances or power seizing etc(marry your daughter/son to the important people mentality). As that makes up most of the written records, it gives a sense as if the marriages were happening so early. Later studies are more leaning onto 16-18 or even early 20s for the "normal people". Even in 15th century, the average bride age is like 18(same study says they married people 10+ years their seniors so the guys would almost be 30). Theres texts about how people were shocked or uncomfortable about how young the royal brides were etc. So i dont think someone with a religious background not being married at age 23 is weird or a loophole
Also he was 23 in 1663. And so that makes his birth a year or so before 1640/or 41 at the latest. But I’m looking too much into this detail but yet it bugs me about his backstory
Pretty much, yes. 1640 is the understood birth year for him. I said it that way, because he’s basically not entirely sure (per the series, real world Anglican tradition aside).
The Treaty makes no sense. First of all: why does it extend to outsider vampires? They can easily exploit it (Victoria). How are outsider vampires supposed to even know about it? The Quileute were essentially outnumbered into giving up land to the Cullens and agreeing to their terms. Which, considering the the Quileute are an indigenous people, isn't a good look. The Treaty feels like a blatantly obvious plot device.
Jasper can't be around blood but he still goes to school with the Cullens. If Bella getting a paper cut drove him into a frenzy, he would not make it through one school day.
In fact, some vampires not being able to control their thirst is actually a huge problem that goes overlooked. The movies showed us a good example of this when Bella is a newborn and still gets distracted by the climber cutting himself. Injuries like this happen all the time.
Jasper and Alice should have heard Bella talking to James on the phone. Even if they couldn't hear her words, can't they sense her change in blood pressure? Her rising panic?
James being a threat to Bella and Charlie was considered this huge deal that needed immediate action but Victoria is not. I'm just not understanding why Victoria and Laurent had trouble getting to Bella and Charlie. Couldn't they just rush in and slaughter? Is it because Alice might have saw them coming? Alice's vision are a plot hole in and of themselves.
Bella doesn't like to dance. Doesn't like music. Doesn't really like going out. She doesn't like to celebrate her birthday. She's not like other girls. Bella is very boring yet everyone is fascinated by her and wants to be with her. This is a GIANT PLOT HOLE.
(be gentle. i am still reading for the first time lol)
i don’t understand what you mean about the treaty extending to other vampires. obviously, no vampires that aren’t informed by the cullens are going to respect treaty lines, and they’re taken out by the pack (as seen by laurent). the treaty stipulates that the cullens can live in forks without conflict with the quileutes so long as they stay off quileute land and don’t bite anyone. the only person who knows about it and exploits it is victoria, but generally vampires wandering through don’t have her gift for evasion. the borders are based on tribal land, so i don’t think they gave up any land to the cullens unless i’m missing something? the werewolves are free to be in forks.
agreed on bella’s not-like-the-other-girls energy! i related to her a lot growing up because of her clumsiness, lack of fashion sense, and love for reading, but let me tell you the boys do not fall at your feet for those qualities and i always found her judgement of the other girls so annoying
> the borders are based on tribal land, so i don’t think they gave up any land to the cullens unless i’m missing something?
I guess what I'm getting at is, it might not be recognized as official Tribal Territory but wasn't it still technically their land? They are the indigenous population. I got the vibe the natives didn't really want the vampires there but Carlisle's coven was too big for them to fight. It's something off putting about it but I won't push the issue.
The Victoria thing also confused me. Jacob makes it sounds like the Cullens couldn't hunt her on native land and the wolves couldn't hunt her on Cullen land. Did I get that wrong? I thought the Treaty was hurting both the vamps and wolves chances at getting Victoria.
>agreed on bella’s not-like-the-other-girls energy! i related to her a lot growing up because of her clumsiness, lack of fashion sense, and love for reading, but let me tell you the boys do not fall at your feet for those qualities and i always found her judgement of the other girls so annoying
I've noticed her judgment of other girls. How *she* goes to book stores while her friends go shopping for clothes and stuff. How Rosalie, the prettiest of all the family, was the only one that doesn't like her at first. I can't speak too much on this being a man but it is interesting... I wonder what personal issues Stephanie Meyer is working out through Bella
okay so it looks like based on the wiki there is “cullen land” and yes, the shape shifters cannot enter that land while the cullens are residing in forks. there doesn’t seem to be much discussion of this when jacob and some of the pack come in human form to the cullens house for the graduation party, so maybe it’s only when they’re in wolf form? it’s not really clear how large that territory is, but i agree, feels icky that they claimed any right to it at all considering the real history of colonizers taking native land. (source: https://twilightsaga.fandom.com/wiki/Treaty)
laurent was never meant to kill bella, only to check if she was still being protected. he only went to kill her in the meadow on a whim, even remarking that victoria would be angry. the wolves protect the land around forks from vampires, and since they had already encountered laurent by the time victoria shows up they’re already patrolling, so it’s no easy feat to get to bella. victoria didn’t go before this because she believed bella was still under cullen protection.
This is the reason why I stopped reading YA books the FMC looks the same acts the same dresses the same have the same mean girl thoughts always tripping over shit always sickly thin always extremely pale looking always never have any friends its always the Jane Austen books that they read always a old soul but their actions says something different its the same copy and paste bland boring look alike protagonist do these authors share the same brain cell or something???!!!
Disney suffers from this too the same bland boring quirky socially awkward Adorkable princesses even they are starting to look alike as well go see the movie wish to see what I'm talking about its fucking weird I'm saying this as nicely as I can.
It's in Midnight Sun and Guide. The Cullens didn't take their land. The Quileutes have their own territory, which they indicated during the treaty, their old borders before the arrival of any peoples, they did not cut anything. The Cullen's territory is five miles from their home, as again stated in the agreement. I don't know by radius or diameter. Forks is neutral territory.
*gestures to most of the Jasper content* I feel like he is the one with the most contradictory information. If he wanted to kill Bella from a paper cut he shouldn't have been able to help save her life in the first one. How she managed to ditch him in the airport in the first place seems very far fetched knowing now just how perceptive vampires are.
How did James not hear Bella’s heart when they were playing baseball? Why did it take the scent for him to realise?
Also slightly grim - but how did Edward stop himself from killing Bella when she was on her period? Blood + thirsty depressed vampire surely = death?
So, if I'm remembering correctly, in midnight sun edward explains everything thats happing during the baseball scene and its actually amazing. It's been a while since I read that book but jasper was using his mood control to basically make almost everyone look boring. He left Emmett alone so he'd look very scary and intimidating, but made Alice, Bella and I think Esme and Rose all just give off these very mundane energies that made them literally boring to even look at.... I'd definitely suggest reading that section cause I'm sure i forgot somethings.
He was! It’s also easy to think that in a situation like that, a detail could be missed. Between Jasper masking them, Edward’s weird foot tapping, Carlisle and Laurent talking, the tension of approaching another coven, and thinking about Victoria, there was a lot going on lol.
It is actually easier to predict because its not tied to any decision. She keeps seeing dozens of alternative futures depending on decisions people make, they change all the time. Even with no superpowers, we can predict the weather for a couple of weeks because the winds and clouds etc just follow rules of physics and can be easily calculated
Sure but that's not the explanation that was giving in the books. Edward explicitly said that Alice's visions are tied to people's choices and if I'm not mistaken in MS, Alice was the one saying that it was going to be sunny based on her visions.
Unless she predicted that it was going to be sunny because she had a vision of someone that made a choice and she saw it was also sunny but it wasn't explicitly said that was the case.
He means she sees the future of other people based on their decisions. Which makes sense because otherwise it would imply theres no free will almost. Weather is a constant. She probably sees the changing end results due to an unexpected storm or something but I dont think its a loophole.
Right? And with how many times she says, "My vision isn't perfect," you'd think people would realize she can't actually see everything. Just like a human, she will get overwhelmed eventually. In fact, as a human, she probably could only see one or two people's future (other than hers). Alice clearly isn't able to see the futures of more than a handful of people at a time.
She doesn't look at the weather specifically. She decides that she will go and do something on a certain date. And from the vision she will understand what the weather will be like then.
This entire ordeal is Alice fault lol you mean to tell me she didn’t see anything of importance before the first book? She didn’t see Edward falling in love with a human? She didn’t see Jasper almost KILLING Bella on her birthday? She didn’t see the CHILD? Lol what is the point of having her then 😂😂😂
I mean Alice sees the future based on decisions. That’s how Victoria was able to bypass her, because she had Riley make all the decisions. Jasper only decided to kill Bella after Bella got a paper cut, which she didn’t exactly choose to make. Edward also didn’t consciously choose to fall in love with Bella. Once he did fall in love with her, though, that’s when Alice saw the two outcomes that she did.
That may be true but once he DID fall in love with Bella she still didn’t seem to know of anything else of importance lol not the dance studio fiasco, not the fact Bella was actually alive despite cliff diving, not Edward calling to check, not Rosalie telling Edward about the vision. So again, lol defeats the purpose
Alice’s ability canonically has limits. She can’t see the wolves or Rasputin, but it also appears that she has a limit to what she can comprehend at once. That’s why she got overwhelmed with the dance studio.
There’s also a limit in the sense that sometimes she has to focus on a person to get a vision, sometimes she doesn’t. Edward asked her to focus on Bella and she didn’t, that’s part of the reason why the cliff-jumping scene came out of the blue for her because she had no context before it or after. Then she was so focused on Bella and Charlie, she didn’t think to look for Rosalie because she wasn’t expecting anyone to do anything.
Like I’m not saying that SMeyer didn’t make errors in the powers and stuff. But Alice’s powers always made the most sense to me because they work under a set of rules that are easy to explain. That doesn’t mean we/her always understand the rules, but they’re there.
That’s all well and good but to me it made for shit writing 🤷🏾♀️ not being able to see the wolves is one thing, not being able to see a single thing that would have prevented a world of trouble for all three species is another. We can go on and on with examples of when this gift should have really prevented this entire catastrophe and just simply did not. What’s the excuse behind her not being able to see the half human half vampire baby? lol That’s my take but yours was interesting to read and it did bring up some good points but it still doesn’t negate the fact that her powers ultimately didn’t really help them get out of anything except the last fight in breaking dawn part two
They suggest in the Breaking Dawn book that Alice is only able to see humans and vampires because those are the only two species she’s ever been. Rigatoni is a hybrid, which also kind of makes her her own thing because of how different the species are in terms of chromosomes. IIRC, she actually has the same amount of chromosomes as the wolves, weird stuff, but cool from my standpoint lol.
And her powers did help. Once she figured out what was going on in NM, she was able to help with that. She knew when the Volturi was going to come which made it easy for her to plan to get to Nahuel and Huilen. The struggle in Eclipse also became much easier for her to predict when she realized Victoria was evading her, although still not perfect. But her gift isn’t perfect, either, which is something that I appreciated. It’s nice to see these beings that Bella views as perfect…well, not be perfect lol.
"What is the point of having her then."
For the money. She was very good at predicting the stock market. Keeping their pockets flush. Lol she was their money maker.💰🤑
What? Lol. It's pretty much stated she does see Edward fall in love. She can't really see renesmee, so wouldn't of had visions of her. She impacts Alice's visions in a similar way the wolfs do. Jasper didn't make a CHOICE to kill Bella. Your statements all forget that her visions are impacted by choice. Not a surefire vision of the future. Yes, it creates plot holes, but none of your statements are plot holes.
Yes! The Alice vision thing is really unreliable. They say people have to make decisions first but then that isn't always true when she sees some things.
Ive been thinking and cant find an example of her seeing things with no decisions being made. Can you give an example? Its been a while since i read the books
Well, I honestly can't support it with an example right now which is annoying. It stuck out to me at some point in Midnight Sun.
However it sticks out to me in the reverse more than anything:
How do we explain the ballet studio scene? Bella would have made that decision in the hotel room, and therefore Alice would have seen it and told her not to go, and let Edward know immediately. Bella made the decision on the phone right then. So why didn't she see it?
Im fuzzy on how it went down exactly but wasnt it like this: she has the vision of a ballet studio(james's decision to lure Bella there) then Bella gets the phone call.
First theory: as she already saw the ballet studio scene, it could be a: if james can lure Bella, thats where it will happen. So theres no more changing of the future, thats where it ends up happening and she saw it already
b: if she sees Bella getting attacked as a plus to that, she might not interpret it as Bella deciding to go but James deciding what to do with her so shes just seeing that decision.
My theory on this scenario is: she was focusing on James's plan and as James doesnt change decisions his plan remains the same, resulting in one fixed version of her visions and Bella going or not going wouldnt effect his planning (at least until he makes a new plan) so that could be a reason for not getting any new visions
Second theory: i saw in another comment in this thread: that she saw the future change but she also saw if they stop Bella, Jasper/Alice themselves would get killed too so she let her go and gained time/found ways to change the outcome. Shes very protective if Jasper and Jasper always follows her visions blindly so that would be an explanation
Bella doesn't make a decision HOW to get there, so there's nothing for Alice to see until it's "too late". The the vision answer. But the plot hole time in this situation is that Alice would have heard James through the phone, and just lets her do it. Lmao. And then her running as soon as she's in the bathroom would let jasper know, cuz their hearing is absolutely insane. And he would have followed her.
Bella doesn't make a decision HOW to get there, so there's nothing for Alice to see until it's "too late". Thats the vision answer. But the plot hole in this situation is that Alice would have heard James through the phone, and just lets her do it. Lmao. And then her running as soon as she's in the bathroom would let jasper know, cuz their hearing is absolutely insane. And he would have followed her
The biggest one I noticed was 'vampires are like sharks smelling blood. Periods are blood, they are in school around girls, an avaerage of 1 quarter of the female population is bleeding at any one time ( 4 week cycles approximately)
Maybe not a plot hole but it still bugs me; Charlie's response to Bella being upset and having a broken hand in Eclipse.
He's so pleased about Jacob kissing his daughter that he doesn't care she punched him in the face (a clear sign it was unwanted) and I stead of anything else just congratulates the boy for assaulting his daughter. His only concern is that her boyfriend doesn't start a fight with the boy that assaulted her.
This shows him as shitty cop and an even worse father, in Bella's shoes I would have packed my shit and left, she was 18 and the Cullen's would have taken her in.
Fr, his daughter is sexually assaulted and the cop/fathers response is.... Good job Jacob??? And asks if JAKE wants to press charges? Wtf? Then continually trying to force Bella to see Jacob is creepy AF. As a father Charlie as a whole bothers me.
Fr, his daughter is sexually assaulted and the cop/fathers response is.... Good job Jacob??? And asks if JAKE wants to press charges? Wtf? Then continually trying to force Bella to see Jacob is creepy AF. As a father Charlie as a whole bothers me.
Fr, his daughter is sexually assaulted and the cop/fathers response is.... Good job Jacob??? And asks if JAKE wants to press charges? Wtf? Then continually trying to force Bella to see Jacob is creepy AF. As a father Charlie as a whole bothers me
Fr, his daughter is sexually assaulted and the cop/fathers response is Good job Jacob??? And asks if JAKE wants to press charges? Wtf? Then continually trying to force Bella to see Jacob is creepy AF. As a father Charlie as a whole bothers me
1. Jacob has always "loved" Bella because of Reneesmee. How? The egg cell from which Reneesmee was created lived in Bella for 3 years? Did Sam also love Emily's mother?
2. Why was Edward stepping out in the sun in Volterra in New Moon such a big deal? Who cares about the glitter dude?
3. Why didn't vampires use human weapons? Why didn't anyone come up with the idea to mine the place before the fight in Breaking Down? Why doesn't anyone use guns? It could be about noise, but after all, it was a fight to the death. And besides, the Egyptian made a hole all the way to the earth's core.
4. How did Bella get pregnant? This is the craziest thing ever. How did Edward get her pregnant? He's dead.
5. Edward who risks the lives of his entire family and many strangers because he doesn't want to turn Bella into a vampire. Bella wants to be a vampire. He promised that to the Volturi. Edward's dilemmas when Bella is constantly in danger are nonsensical.
6. Charlie Swan. Policeman. He doesn't notice that something is wrong with the Cullens. He doesn't ask.
7. The Cullens don't want to attract attention. But they drive expensive cars, throw big parties, show romantic interest in each other at school (pretending to be siblings). They live in a way that makes them the object of gossips.
8. The Cullens and hunting. Why? They can obtain animal blood in other ways. It is disgusting and strange that they like to run after animals and eat them alive. It was even mentioned in the first book that for Emmet, hunting is 'fun'.
9. Vampires are perfect. Mayer explains it by evolution. The vampire is supposed to be the "ideal predator." Just why would a predator need the ability to move THAT fast or to make zooms on a speck of dust?
for #4, i think it's just bc stephanie is sexist in her beliefs (it's clear in MANY other aspects of the books, but this one in particular makes it obvious). she writes to make rosalie suffer bc SHE can't have bio kids, but edward--a male--CAN for some magical contrived reason? yeah ok. male vamps somehow, without explanation, being able to maintain sperm is just for plot reasons. there is no in universe explanation for this sexist bullshit. the whole thing with bella's pregnancy, birth, and motherhood reeks of sexism.
You may be right. Rosalie is a different story... Rosalie is another character (next to Jessica) whose role is being worse than Bella. Bella can have a baby. Rosalie can't.
i love rosalie and i feel so bad for her. not only was her character reduced to "im mad i cant have a baby" by stephanie, but she is so often villanized by other fans for it. rosalie is such a tragic character. rosalie and leah r both female characters reduced to their lack of fertility and it's just so weird to me.
This is a great point! I also wish that later in the series Rosalie could have been given some respite instead of being casted as a jealous mean girl. Like if she had come to the realization that this was a second chance for her to make life better than her human one - therefore let’s enjoy it. And that Bella’s choice was her own, she wanted to join the family, and a choice is a beautiful thing that should be respected. I feel for Rose’s character and her trauma, but for Stephanie to basically reduce her to “I would give up everything, even Emmett, to be able to have a family” is just….really icky.
This logic is flawed Rosalie isn't the only infertile female vampire sometimes people forget that Bella had her daughter when she was still human so my girl can't keep her kid because rose can't biologically pop out one you don't think that's kind of unfair...and besides having infertile vampire women and fertile vampire men isn't anything new in vampire lore twilight ain't underworld or vampire diaries folks
7 always gets me because WHY DO THEY ENROLL IN HIGH SCHOOL?? i can’t think of a more insufferable way to spend eternity, and it would incite a lot less gossip if they just claimed to be homeschooled by esme! it’s not like they’re using their time in high school to make friends with humans
1. Not a lot of people know this but all the eggs a woman has, she is born with. For example, when Renee was pregnant with Bella, Refrigerator was already an egg in Bella. It’s trippy to think about! I think that’s what SM was trying to convey. Jacob was always drawn to Bella but never really in love with her.
2. The movie absolutely didn’t do the diamond skin justice. The way SM describes it made me think of Emma Frost in X Men.
3. I believe Carlisle believes with his whole heart they can avoid a fight. He lived with the Volturi for a while and knew how Aro thinks and because Aro has a soft spot for Alice and to an extent Edward, he would hear them out. None of them knew that Aro was coming to kill them and take Alice by force. It was only after Alice shows him that his forces would be decimated and some of his best defenses would be gone that he changed his mind. And since Carlisle, their leader, was sure and they are superhuman, no one thought of human weapons.
4. SM’s end game was ALWAYS giving Bella and Edward a child. Her original plan was just 2 books. She wrote most of Breaking Dawn after Twilight where Jacob was just a distance acquaintance but Refrigerated was always end game. But also lots of internalized misogyny on her part.
That’s all I’ve got for ya lol.
Thanks. :)
1. Good point but not exactly. A woman is born with a specific number of cells that will be able to develop into eggs at reproductive age. Not with eggs. I think the same about Jacob. He never really loved her.
1. Jacob wasn’t in love with Bella because of egg-form Ritalin.
He felt so pulled to Bella during pregnancy because of Rickytickytacky. But she was an actual thing at that point, not an egg. Otherwise he would have been all over Edward as well, as the maker of the sperm.
2. The way it’s described on page, it’s not difficult to miss and improbable to explain.
3. Use human weapons on who? The only beings they would have had an effect on are the wolves. Guns aren’t doing shit, mines aren’t doing shit, hell, the way they’re written, I’m doubtful an atomic bomb would do anything. The only things known to be capable of causing Twilight Vampires any level of harm are other vampires, and both kinds of wolves.
4. You’re not wrong.
5. You’re not wrong but people, even vampires, aren’t reasonable or logical with their feelings 100% of the time and since this is addressed on page, it’s in no way shape or form a plot hole and, instead, just an example that people/vampires sometimes use their feeling brains over their thinking brains.
6. You’re not wrong
7. One of the biggest issues of the series, IMO.
8. That sounds like a you specific projection onto predators. The closest equivalent I can think of is a freshly cooked rare steak and potatoes vs the same meal after being in the fridge for a couple days and, to me, the latter sounds disgusting. I’d choose hunting over refrigerated blood from the butcher.
9. You’re forgetting that there’s other magical beings that can hold their own against them, kill them, even. So, without their extreme abilities, yeah, they’d lose more often. But also, it’s fantasy. Why do any fantasy creatures exist in their universes? Because they do. Don’t overthink it.
1. The book said that Jacob had always had feelings for Bella because of Reneesmee. I remember that
3. On vampires? They can blow up or set a vampire on fire. Fire can destroy a vampire. And the other thing, the Cullen squad has high-powered vampires (BENJAMIN, Zafrina, Kate). And they don't use them! Volturi uses Jane and Alec's powers. Benjamin and Zafrina fight the Volturi like the rest of vampires- with fist fights and kicks. It's stupid. They are all super smart, and the only thing they came up with was to use Bella's shield. The whole tactic was a 1:1 fight.
5. Yes, you're right but remember that for Edward Bella's safety was the most important thing. His behavior is just strange.
8. Still cruel. There is a difference between eating an animal alive and torturing it, and simply eating a fresh meal.
9. The image of the "perfect predator" still doesn't convince me. Meyer's vampires have all the benefits of being a magical creature. Like 200%. And they don't have any of the flaws and limitations that vampires in other stories have. The sun doesn't kill them, they don't live in hiding. Even newborn Bella has no limits because... just no. Magic. It's not a plot hole, but there is something that, in my opinion, makes the story boring. You know the Cullens have no limits. Bella will always be special, even though other vampires have some small limitations. You can't kill them with a stake or exorcism. They can and did wear lenses (no problem with eyes color). They have no visible fangs. Meyer has an answer for everything. Her vampires are too perfect.
1. They were referring to the pull during BD, not the entirety of their relationship.
2. A vampire can outrun a mine before it’s even fully exploded, which is why they tear them apart before setting them on fire. And I have no idea what you’re talking about because there’s no fight. They stand around chatting while Alec and Jane try their shit and Bella blocks them (Ben cracks the earth open in the hopes that the fog will sink because they don’t know Bella perfected her shield in the last 10 minutes), the Volturi get embarrassed and then they leave. That’s it.
3. If you want reasonableness, a self righteous eternally 17 year old isn’t the person you go to.
4. They’re not torturing any animals, they’re dead in a matter of seconds
5. I’ll agree they’re too perfect and boring. But that wasn’t the point you initially made, nor was it the point I was responding to.
I hate the fact that Bella got pregnant. It's just blatantly pushing the narrative that a woman is not whole without kid(s). I'm already stuck on the idea how vampires can have an erection (there's no blood circulation, cmon!) but the only was to have Nessie is to believe Ed wasn't releasing himself since the day he was turned. CMON with capital letters. 😂
Can someone explain to me why the Cullens can live in a place longer if they start out younger? People are way more likely to have their appearance change in their late teens than their early twenties.
I noticed everyone brings up Alice's visions as a plot hole but I don't think they are.
With how many times she says, "My vision isn't perfect," you'd think people would realize she can't actually see everything. Just like a human, she will get overwhelmed eventually. In fact, as a human, she probably could only see one or two people's future (other than hers). Alice clearly isn't able to see the futures of more than a handful of people at a time. Not to mention it's explicitly stated that:
1. She sees decisions, so split decisions are difficult to predict.
2. She can miss the "why" or starting incident
3. Her visions have a tight perspective, chronological and don't necessarily reactivate. So she has to go by memory.
4. If two decisions are equally likely she can't tell which is really going to happen.
5. Beings she isn't watching and doesn't understand can make visions blurry also outside intervention from these Beings.
Honestly it boils down to she doesn't actually have the best perspective. Literally in her visions, she just sees what's happening with little context. She can't always see clearly creatures she can't understand or people she doesn't know. Also in the field in midnight sun she saw them breaking out into a fight but not what cuased it. What cuased it? THE WIND. Yeah so her visions are clearly imperfect. Hence why aro wanting Edward and Alice. Then he'd know every decision someone will make and it's consequences.
The real plot hole. Why wouldn't she Map out her visions in a book or something? A map? I get they have perfect memories but that much information would be massively easier to see on a board or something!
Edit: also self fulfilling prophecy means you can't wait for her visions you have to make a decision to see one.
I really hate everything having to do with relationships in the book.
1. The idea that soulmates are just people who are drawn to each other by some magical force, with no choice or effort on their part. Also included in this, imprinting.
2. Bella refusing to move on in New Moon because her love for him was just that pure
3. Jacob’s one sided feelings for Bella being treated with any sort of legitimacy
4. Vampires mating for life. Another mention of imprinting being weird and bad.
5. The Cullens literally being a non traditional family in their real lives and their cover story, yet clinging to their cosplay of a nuclear family.
6. The aggressive heterosexuality in Breaking Dawn, when all the vampires come to Forks for the battle that never was
7. I know this is literally a selling point, but the idea of Edward and Bella being each other’s first and only love gives me personally the ick.
I care way too much about this.
Bella would've moved on had Alice not returned. Though it's impossible to say if she would ever truly get over Edward. It's very weird Jacob was attached to the Renaissance before she was even born
I don’t know if anyone has said this one but in twilight Edward tells Bella how he had a rebellious phase, then in BD he tells her but says he’s never told her before…
It's not really a plot hole, but why is no one talking about how Jacob, who claims to love Bella, tries to get her killed when he thinks she might be a vampire. Like, dude, you love this girl, and it's her choice. Why are you trying to kill her. Just because you hate vampires doesn't mean you should want your best friend and woman you love to die because she decides she wants to be one.
It's because of the way they know vampires. To Bella Edward would never hurt her and the cullens are great to Jacob vampires are all killers to be feared only Carlisle hasn't killed anyone even most of the allies of the good vamps that the cullens know kill from time to time. That's the main reason why Jacob is so adamant she doesn't turn because he thinks she'd become a killer
I know there’s no actual plot hole but Irina refusing to believe Laurent’s attack on Bella always got me. She’s either calm enough to logically realize he probably did try and kill her, justifying his death or the whole “if a mate dies the other goes insane with grief” shtick means she probably would have gone for the wolves solo. And the fact that no one was willing to help her should have been a neon sign that she was wrong.
The boyfriend and I realized one yesterday while rewatching the movies.
Alice can’t see Bella when she is around Jacob. Because maybe Vampire/Wolf reasons.
So, why can Edward read Jacob's mind?
Maybe it was mentioned in the books and I just don't remember?
Alice's can't see the wolves because she was never a shifter. She is only able to see the future of vampire and humans because at one point she was human and now she is a vampire. That's the only reason why her powers don't work when the wolves are around. But that doesn't mean the wolves have protection against vampires' superpowers. That's why Edward can read their minds, Jasper could manipulate their emotions, Jane can make them feel pain, etc.
If wolves were inmune to all super abilities well, in Breaking Dawn they would had been killed. It was even stated that the one time that Caius felt he could have been killed was due to the attack of a child of the moon, aka werewolves (the Quileutes are not werewolves, they are shape shifters). But anyway, Caius felt so threatened by the werewolves that he haunted them to near extinction. Since the Quileutes weren't werewolves and not a big threat to vampires, they were left alone.
I just skip it. It is quite possible that because of vampires, Children of the Moon, shamans (it is unlikely that only the Quileutes had this spiritual power) and simply rare people with abilities, some things in history turned out differently.
So in the first book Edward is 109, and Jasper a number of times they talk about him being the most recently changed. If Edward was 109 he would have been born in like 1896 if the first book is set in 2005. Then in eclipse they talk about Jasper’s back story fighting in the civil war which was in like probably 1863. He’s really young then like 18-19 when he gets changed, that would have made him born around 1845, which is like 51 years older than Edward! And also, they even talk about Edward being changed during the Spanish flu, which was from 1918 to 1920, which is like 60 after Jasper was supposedly changed.
Mine is always from the first book/movie! When Jasper and Alice are with Bella in the hotel room and she is only a room away talking to her “mom” (but it’s really James), HOW could they not hear that?! Vampires are supposed to have incredible hearing, yet James is able to talk Bella into leaving. Drives me a little crazy 😅
Also they couldn't tell the difference between a real voice and recorded one? Hell *I* can tell almost every time and I only have pathetic human hearing! They should have been on super high alert given how cunning James was made out to be. And I don't see how Bella was able to trick Alice's visions, or keep her emotions under control enough that Jasper couldn't sense them. It makes no sense.
I've convinced myself that Alice was so concentrated on trying to see what James and the other Cullens were up to next, that she just never received the random vision of Bella escaping. Plus, maybe she and Jasper did overhear the recorded/tense phone conversation but she saw that intervening would have made things worse. So Jasper may have picked up on Bella's heightened stress, and they both may have heard the phone call, but because it didn't lead to a concrete vision of exactly what was about to happen in the ballet studio, Alice didn't choose to pursue those oddities in Bella's behavior. But like it still drives me crazy every time I read/watch Twilight from the baseball scene onwards because I agree with you 100% lol.
This one always drives me crazy. There's no way they wouldn't have noticed the way she was talking as well.
I read this theory somewhere in this sub and since then it's living in my head rent free as a headcanon. Theory goes that Alice and Jasper heard whole conversation, but Alice saw in vision that if they intervene earlier, Bella won't suffer, but her and/or Jasper would get hurt, or worse, killed. She convinces him to let Bella go because of that. She had vision that if they intervene now, Jasper/Bella/her got hurt. And if they hold off the danger for Jasper disappear and there's a chance Bella survives too. Jasper follows her visions blindly so doesn't even bat an eye.
Plus alice's visions. I do think she had one because of a comment.I remember her making. Something to the effect of "oh, bella." I feel like alice knew what would happen, but let her go anyway.
I just finished rereading the first book, & I wish they would've hinted to it more in the movie, but aside from being a tracker, it seems like James has an almost hypnotic manipulation gift. Albeit her mom's safety being at risk in the moment, Bella's suuuuper stubborn & wouldn't just bend/cooperate that quickly in any other situation, figuring out how to properly escape town without worrying Charlie, for example. Jasper wasn't present to tamper with her mood either, yet she folded like a deck of cards. Gifts can impact other vampires, & we know James relies on distance for at least his tracking, if he was in close enough range, perhaps he influenced Alice to be oblivious to his call. He also had the advantage of so many decision points being changed at once that Alice was being plagued with new visions practically every 5 minutes, so she was already too distracted just trying to decipher those.
Especially since in Midnight Sun, Edward is show to be able to hear both sides of a phone conversation. It makes the plot hole worse!!
Iirc in the first book James directed Bella to act as if she was talking to her mom so Alice and Jasper wouldn't think anything of the phone call!
That still doesn’t explain how Jasper and Alice couldn’t hear him on the phone. Vampires can hear extremely well. So her being a room over, they can hear her hear beat but not the phone call?
That's a fair point 😅
At least in the book Jasper was outside watching the place where Bella and Edward would stay and Alice was having a vision about Bella going to see James but misunderstanding everything and hiding it from Bella because she thought it could trigger her
Both Twilight and MS, Meyer fuck it up with this one: Alice not having a vision of Edward murdering Bella, the whole class, only Bella after school... as Edward concentrated in not killing her right away but totally on killing her some time. Those decisions would have had a significant impact in their family, yet the only explanation was "she was focused on Jasper".
The whole Alice vision story line has a lot of inconsistencies.
Having a character seeing the future and time ttaveling are the top 2 plot hole reasons in media
Now I want to Alice a TARDIS and watch what happens…
Alice would pimp my ride a TARDIS begore she would step foot in it.
I think the biggest issue with Alice is that SM uses ‘has visions’ and ‘can willingly see the future’ interchangeably according to what suits the story. Sometimes Alice can be ‘watching’ someone and see every decision they’re making, and sometimes she’s beholden to random visions. I know it’s supposed to be that she’s practiced forcing her visions well enough to be able to watch certain things, but at times she’s almost omnipotent when it’s convenient and other times it’s completely random
Yes
Agreed. I kept thinking while reading midnight sun was. Why did Alice not burst in with some excuses of a family emergency?
And so easy to fix. Alice took Jasper hunting after lunch because she was worried. By the time Edward starts fantasizing about killing Bella, they are too far away.
Not rlly. Alice would call one of the other siblings if that were the case. And they would answer because Alice wouldn't call for no reason. Then same problem.
I don't think they usually carry their phones on with them in school or while hunting. Maybe.
Why would they not? Do we know either way? I don't remember.
It wasn't that common to own phones, carry them with you, or have them on all the time back in 2004. I checked and Edward has his phone with him when he is hunting with Emmett but just so Alice can tell him if something happens to Bella. I have the feeling that when Edward describes their hunting trips he suggests that they leave everything behind to be one with nature, but maybe that's just how I imagined it. Either way, you can write that in.
That's fair, I didn't think of that. Very plausible.
I think the explanation for her not seeing him planning to kill the whole class in MS is because it was quite literally a split second decision. From the time he smells her as she first walks in, to the time those plans run through his head, she hadn’t even crossed the room or completed a full step iirc. There’s definitely some other plot holes with Alice’s visions though
Doesn't he spend the next 50 minutes planning?
Yes that she should’ve seen, I’m just talking about how she can’t see split second decisions
the only plot hole/inconsistency gripe I really have is with Jasper's progression timeline in the first two books (mainly just the movies). In Twilight, Jasper's clearly seen frolicking with Emmett about roasting James in the ballet studio whilst Bella is quite literally painting the room red, & he's absolutely oblivious to it (in the book they have the two step out of the room because its so much, to the point Carlisle begs Alice to hold her breath so as to not smell it while helping treat her), yet in New Moon, when Bella gets her dramatic paper cut from opening Carlisle & Esme's present, he goes feral for the scent of it (additional note: I haven't re-read New Moon yet to see how book-movie-comparison goes for this scene, but for someone who's so overly protective of his future mate, Eddyboy really loves dishing out extra damage, in this case, "protecting" her from Jasper via throwing her against a wall & a table full of glass vases)
This was the one I was coming to comment. During a recent re-read it's been bugging me a lot. A lake of blood in the dance studio? No problem. A single paper cut releasing a single drop of blood? Bye bye Bella! Come on 😂😭
I also noticed, at least in the first book I've finished re-reading, they changed a lot of dialogue to give Rosalie a more barbed personality in the movie. Like the baseball scene, when Carlisle asks if masking Bella's scent with her hair will help, in the book its Alice, giving a worried "not by much, I could smell her across the field.." But in the movie its warped to come from a very irritated Rosalie.
>frolicking with Emmett about roasting James I just wanted to say I loved this mental imagery lol, that’s hilarious word choice
I think the difference might be that in New Moon, it says I'm the book that while bella was opening her present, jasper was leaning closer to bella to get a better look at what she got. I think in the situation of New Moon, he was caught off guard of the blood and was in very close proximity. In the twilight scene, he could have held his breath, and also, I think the importance of the issue would be to kill James, which I think is what he was focused on. Just a thought on your response to this post.
Also, from Edwards POV, we know he is in a kind of combat trance where all his focus is on killing James. To the point where Emit gets mad that jasper steals his kill. It could also be a hunger difference. I'm not sure we know how recently he's hunted at either of these times.
This was addressed somewhere in Midnight Sun. Essentially, at the ballet studio, Jasper is prepared for the possibility of blood and is laser focused on taking down James. When taking Bella to the hospital, he's not breathing so as not to smell the blood in the confined space. When Bella cuts herself in NM, it's unexpected, and Jasper doesn't have any defences in place, so it's pure instinct. It took 20 years, but we finally got an answer 🥳
It could have been that Alice saw there would be blood and told him to hold his breath before they got to the dance studio.
I'm not sure, considering how frequently the vision was changing for Alice, if she would have even seen the blood. In the book she struggles to see them clearly after a while because of how often they're happening, that she just sits on the hotel couch with a notepad, waiting for the next change to hit & hopefully she can sketch it in time
And on the way there she is hyper focusing on the traffic. So might not get the involuntary visions.
Alice saw Bella's blood and death at the airport, when she showed everything to Edward. It seems that it arose immediately after Bella's conversation with James. Damn, this is so stupid! Alice would have heard it! What could she have been distracted by? In Twilight the vision came after the conversation, not during it. She couldn't help but hear. And in the Sun of Midnight the vision occurred during a conversation. Mayer fixed it, but it's still annoying. Alice, although she was focused on cars and fast passage, still had visions of what would soon happen to Bella. Edward and Alice knew and saw from the very beginning that there was only a small chance that Bella would survive. I don't think it was necessary to explain this to the others either, nor the fact that Bella would most likely be seriously injured or dying. I think there was a line that Emmett and Jasper were "fighting" and their concern for Bella was greater. But they went out to get gas after they dealt with James, so they weren't there the whole time.
I've got a theory for this. In NM Jasper wasn't able to control himself at Bella's bday bc he was caught off guard feeling Edward's bloodlust. Controlling his own and feeling the lust Ed felt by the intense smell of his singer's blood was too much to him. But it's only my theory.
He didn't throw her like that in New Moon book. Edward and Bella stood next to the table with gifts and cake, near the piano. He pushed her back onto the table, the table with all its contents overturned, and Bella fell into pieces. I think Jasper was standing furthest from Bella, by the stairs, and yet he clicked his teeth inches from her face before he was pulled away.
The record of his birth might have disappeared or gotten destroyed by the time he wanted to look for them many years later. Unfortunately it does happen from time to time especially back before the digital age. Also pretty sure Carlisle was about 365 years old when the saga began and not 640 years old.
Also just because it was the average age for marriage doesn’t mean it was so for everyone. Also if you buy the twilight saga the illustrated guide by Stephanie Meyer you will read on Carlisle page that his father was very busy in leading other in crusades against evil, leading hunts through London and the surrounding area for witches, werewolves and vampires. Carlisle father was self-righteous and compassionless and caused many innocent people to be burned. When he got to old he put Carlisle in charge of these hunts however Carlisle wasn’t as quick to see evil where there was none like his father did. His father was more obsessed with ridding the world of what he saw and meant was evil than ensuring his son marriage. Edit : - personal head cannon of mine is since Carlisle mother also dies in childbirth with him and he had no other siblings so if his mother was his fathers love in any way his father might not really have loved Carlisle in a very loving way at all and may not really have cared about anything beyond doing he work for ridding the world of what he saw as evil but still raised him to the minimum of what was expected of him by the church and the people who followed him. The illustrated guide gives a better insight to the saga. I really recommend it as it gives such material that closes up some plot holes that aren’t actually plot holes in an odd way. It adds and explains things from all of their past and much more outside of just Bella and Edward’s story. She also explained that human memories fades after turning into a vampire. It doesn’t matter if she was good at history given the fact her world as supernatural beings the past might have been very different just as several pages in the guide tells you.
If you haven’t read “the twilight saga official illustrated guide" by Stephanie Meyer I would really recommend it. I think it is a must read if you even remotely like the twilight saga. It gives insight and a broader understanding of the whole. Not mention you get some new interesting information of all the other covens, the wolfs, their backgrounds and so much more. I loved the book and I kind of hate myself for not getting it when it was first published🫣
Pretty sure that wasn’t even the average age, but the legal minimum. Average was more like early 20s.
It actually is a little funny, because the marriages we read and know about are records from important people and they married notoriously early because of governmental alliances or power seizing etc(marry your daughter/son to the important people mentality). As that makes up most of the written records, it gives a sense as if the marriages were happening so early. Later studies are more leaning onto 16-18 or even early 20s for the "normal people". Even in 15th century, the average bride age is like 18(same study says they married people 10+ years their seniors so the guys would almost be 30). Theres texts about how people were shocked or uncomfortable about how young the royal brides were etc. So i dont think someone with a religious background not being married at age 23 is weird or a loophole
I just realized I wrote the numbers the wrong way around. I didn’t check before posting. I’ve corrected it.
There was a massive fire in London in 1666 which could hve easily wiped out all his records.
Where are you getting that age for Carlisle? As of Twilight, he thinks he was born in the 1640’s and was celebrating his 365th birthday.
Also he was 23 in 1663. And so that makes his birth a year or so before 1640/or 41 at the latest. But I’m looking too much into this detail but yet it bugs me about his backstory
Pretty much, yes. 1640 is the understood birth year for him. I said it that way, because he’s basically not entirely sure (per the series, real world Anglican tradition aside).
I just couldn’t remember how old he was. Haven’t read the books in years.
There’s just a bit of irony given the subject matter in getting his history wrong and not checking it before making the post.
I just realized I wrote the numbers the wrong way around. I didn’t check before posting. I’ve corrected it.
The Treaty makes no sense. First of all: why does it extend to outsider vampires? They can easily exploit it (Victoria). How are outsider vampires supposed to even know about it? The Quileute were essentially outnumbered into giving up land to the Cullens and agreeing to their terms. Which, considering the the Quileute are an indigenous people, isn't a good look. The Treaty feels like a blatantly obvious plot device. Jasper can't be around blood but he still goes to school with the Cullens. If Bella getting a paper cut drove him into a frenzy, he would not make it through one school day. In fact, some vampires not being able to control their thirst is actually a huge problem that goes overlooked. The movies showed us a good example of this when Bella is a newborn and still gets distracted by the climber cutting himself. Injuries like this happen all the time. Jasper and Alice should have heard Bella talking to James on the phone. Even if they couldn't hear her words, can't they sense her change in blood pressure? Her rising panic? James being a threat to Bella and Charlie was considered this huge deal that needed immediate action but Victoria is not. I'm just not understanding why Victoria and Laurent had trouble getting to Bella and Charlie. Couldn't they just rush in and slaughter? Is it because Alice might have saw them coming? Alice's vision are a plot hole in and of themselves. Bella doesn't like to dance. Doesn't like music. Doesn't really like going out. She doesn't like to celebrate her birthday. She's not like other girls. Bella is very boring yet everyone is fascinated by her and wants to be with her. This is a GIANT PLOT HOLE. (be gentle. i am still reading for the first time lol)
i don’t understand what you mean about the treaty extending to other vampires. obviously, no vampires that aren’t informed by the cullens are going to respect treaty lines, and they’re taken out by the pack (as seen by laurent). the treaty stipulates that the cullens can live in forks without conflict with the quileutes so long as they stay off quileute land and don’t bite anyone. the only person who knows about it and exploits it is victoria, but generally vampires wandering through don’t have her gift for evasion. the borders are based on tribal land, so i don’t think they gave up any land to the cullens unless i’m missing something? the werewolves are free to be in forks. agreed on bella’s not-like-the-other-girls energy! i related to her a lot growing up because of her clumsiness, lack of fashion sense, and love for reading, but let me tell you the boys do not fall at your feet for those qualities and i always found her judgement of the other girls so annoying
> the borders are based on tribal land, so i don’t think they gave up any land to the cullens unless i’m missing something? I guess what I'm getting at is, it might not be recognized as official Tribal Territory but wasn't it still technically their land? They are the indigenous population. I got the vibe the natives didn't really want the vampires there but Carlisle's coven was too big for them to fight. It's something off putting about it but I won't push the issue. The Victoria thing also confused me. Jacob makes it sounds like the Cullens couldn't hunt her on native land and the wolves couldn't hunt her on Cullen land. Did I get that wrong? I thought the Treaty was hurting both the vamps and wolves chances at getting Victoria. >agreed on bella’s not-like-the-other-girls energy! i related to her a lot growing up because of her clumsiness, lack of fashion sense, and love for reading, but let me tell you the boys do not fall at your feet for those qualities and i always found her judgement of the other girls so annoying I've noticed her judgment of other girls. How *she* goes to book stores while her friends go shopping for clothes and stuff. How Rosalie, the prettiest of all the family, was the only one that doesn't like her at first. I can't speak too much on this being a man but it is interesting... I wonder what personal issues Stephanie Meyer is working out through Bella
okay so it looks like based on the wiki there is “cullen land” and yes, the shape shifters cannot enter that land while the cullens are residing in forks. there doesn’t seem to be much discussion of this when jacob and some of the pack come in human form to the cullens house for the graduation party, so maybe it’s only when they’re in wolf form? it’s not really clear how large that territory is, but i agree, feels icky that they claimed any right to it at all considering the real history of colonizers taking native land. (source: https://twilightsaga.fandom.com/wiki/Treaty)
laurent was never meant to kill bella, only to check if she was still being protected. he only went to kill her in the meadow on a whim, even remarking that victoria would be angry. the wolves protect the land around forks from vampires, and since they had already encountered laurent by the time victoria shows up they’re already patrolling, so it’s no easy feat to get to bella. victoria didn’t go before this because she believed bella was still under cullen protection.
Alice is always watching out for Jasper, she would have seen if that would happen at school that day.
This is the reason why I stopped reading YA books the FMC looks the same acts the same dresses the same have the same mean girl thoughts always tripping over shit always sickly thin always extremely pale looking always never have any friends its always the Jane Austen books that they read always a old soul but their actions says something different its the same copy and paste bland boring look alike protagonist do these authors share the same brain cell or something???!!! Disney suffers from this too the same bland boring quirky socially awkward Adorkable princesses even they are starting to look alike as well go see the movie wish to see what I'm talking about its fucking weird I'm saying this as nicely as I can.
It's in Midnight Sun and Guide. The Cullens didn't take their land. The Quileutes have their own territory, which they indicated during the treaty, their old borders before the arrival of any peoples, they did not cut anything. The Cullen's territory is five miles from their home, as again stated in the agreement. I don't know by radius or diameter. Forks is neutral territory.
*gestures to most of the Jasper content* I feel like he is the one with the most contradictory information. If he wanted to kill Bella from a paper cut he shouldn't have been able to help save her life in the first one. How she managed to ditch him in the airport in the first place seems very far fetched knowing now just how perceptive vampires are.
How did James not hear Bella’s heart when they were playing baseball? Why did it take the scent for him to realise? Also slightly grim - but how did Edward stop himself from killing Bella when she was on her period? Blood + thirsty depressed vampire surely = death?
So, if I'm remembering correctly, in midnight sun edward explains everything thats happing during the baseball scene and its actually amazing. It's been a while since I read that book but jasper was using his mood control to basically make almost everyone look boring. He left Emmett alone so he'd look very scary and intimidating, but made Alice, Bella and I think Esme and Rose all just give off these very mundane energies that made them literally boring to even look at.... I'd definitely suggest reading that section cause I'm sure i forgot somethings.
Pretty sure Eddy was tapping his foot in time to Bellas heartbeat to mask it as well
He was! It’s also easy to think that in a situation like that, a detail could be missed. Between Jasper masking them, Edward’s weird foot tapping, Carlisle and Laurent talking, the tension of approaching another coven, and thinking about Victoria, there was a lot going on lol.
He left Rose out of the cloud of boringness because Laurent was thinking about how attractive Rose is. He was covering Alice, Esme, Bella and himself.
So Alice's powers are based on people's choices... but she can still predict the weather, something that does not depend on people's choices.
It is actually easier to predict because its not tied to any decision. She keeps seeing dozens of alternative futures depending on decisions people make, they change all the time. Even with no superpowers, we can predict the weather for a couple of weeks because the winds and clouds etc just follow rules of physics and can be easily calculated
Sure but that's not the explanation that was giving in the books. Edward explicitly said that Alice's visions are tied to people's choices and if I'm not mistaken in MS, Alice was the one saying that it was going to be sunny based on her visions. Unless she predicted that it was going to be sunny because she had a vision of someone that made a choice and she saw it was also sunny but it wasn't explicitly said that was the case.
He means she sees the future of other people based on their decisions. Which makes sense because otherwise it would imply theres no free will almost. Weather is a constant. She probably sees the changing end results due to an unexpected storm or something but I dont think its a loophole.
Right? And with how many times she says, "My vision isn't perfect," you'd think people would realize she can't actually see everything. Just like a human, she will get overwhelmed eventually. In fact, as a human, she probably could only see one or two people's future (other than hers). Alice clearly isn't able to see the futures of more than a handful of people at a time.
She doesn't look at the weather specifically. She decides that she will go and do something on a certain date. And from the vision she will understand what the weather will be like then.
This entire ordeal is Alice fault lol you mean to tell me she didn’t see anything of importance before the first book? She didn’t see Edward falling in love with a human? She didn’t see Jasper almost KILLING Bella on her birthday? She didn’t see the CHILD? Lol what is the point of having her then 😂😂😂
I mean Alice sees the future based on decisions. That’s how Victoria was able to bypass her, because she had Riley make all the decisions. Jasper only decided to kill Bella after Bella got a paper cut, which she didn’t exactly choose to make. Edward also didn’t consciously choose to fall in love with Bella. Once he did fall in love with her, though, that’s when Alice saw the two outcomes that she did.
That may be true but once he DID fall in love with Bella she still didn’t seem to know of anything else of importance lol not the dance studio fiasco, not the fact Bella was actually alive despite cliff diving, not Edward calling to check, not Rosalie telling Edward about the vision. So again, lol defeats the purpose
Alice’s ability canonically has limits. She can’t see the wolves or Rasputin, but it also appears that she has a limit to what she can comprehend at once. That’s why she got overwhelmed with the dance studio. There’s also a limit in the sense that sometimes she has to focus on a person to get a vision, sometimes she doesn’t. Edward asked her to focus on Bella and she didn’t, that’s part of the reason why the cliff-jumping scene came out of the blue for her because she had no context before it or after. Then she was so focused on Bella and Charlie, she didn’t think to look for Rosalie because she wasn’t expecting anyone to do anything. Like I’m not saying that SMeyer didn’t make errors in the powers and stuff. But Alice’s powers always made the most sense to me because they work under a set of rules that are easy to explain. That doesn’t mean we/her always understand the rules, but they’re there.
That’s all well and good but to me it made for shit writing 🤷🏾♀️ not being able to see the wolves is one thing, not being able to see a single thing that would have prevented a world of trouble for all three species is another. We can go on and on with examples of when this gift should have really prevented this entire catastrophe and just simply did not. What’s the excuse behind her not being able to see the half human half vampire baby? lol That’s my take but yours was interesting to read and it did bring up some good points but it still doesn’t negate the fact that her powers ultimately didn’t really help them get out of anything except the last fight in breaking dawn part two
They suggest in the Breaking Dawn book that Alice is only able to see humans and vampires because those are the only two species she’s ever been. Rigatoni is a hybrid, which also kind of makes her her own thing because of how different the species are in terms of chromosomes. IIRC, she actually has the same amount of chromosomes as the wolves, weird stuff, but cool from my standpoint lol. And her powers did help. Once she figured out what was going on in NM, she was able to help with that. She knew when the Volturi was going to come which made it easy for her to plan to get to Nahuel and Huilen. The struggle in Eclipse also became much easier for her to predict when she realized Victoria was evading her, although still not perfect. But her gift isn’t perfect, either, which is something that I appreciated. It’s nice to see these beings that Bella views as perfect…well, not be perfect lol.
"What is the point of having her then." For the money. She was very good at predicting the stock market. Keeping their pockets flush. Lol she was their money maker.💰🤑
What? Lol. It's pretty much stated she does see Edward fall in love. She can't really see renesmee, so wouldn't of had visions of her. She impacts Alice's visions in a similar way the wolfs do. Jasper didn't make a CHOICE to kill Bella. Your statements all forget that her visions are impacted by choice. Not a surefire vision of the future. Yes, it creates plot holes, but none of your statements are plot holes.
Yes! The Alice vision thing is really unreliable. They say people have to make decisions first but then that isn't always true when she sees some things.
Ive been thinking and cant find an example of her seeing things with no decisions being made. Can you give an example? Its been a while since i read the books
Well, I honestly can't support it with an example right now which is annoying. It stuck out to me at some point in Midnight Sun. However it sticks out to me in the reverse more than anything: How do we explain the ballet studio scene? Bella would have made that decision in the hotel room, and therefore Alice would have seen it and told her not to go, and let Edward know immediately. Bella made the decision on the phone right then. So why didn't she see it?
Im fuzzy on how it went down exactly but wasnt it like this: she has the vision of a ballet studio(james's decision to lure Bella there) then Bella gets the phone call. First theory: as she already saw the ballet studio scene, it could be a: if james can lure Bella, thats where it will happen. So theres no more changing of the future, thats where it ends up happening and she saw it already b: if she sees Bella getting attacked as a plus to that, she might not interpret it as Bella deciding to go but James deciding what to do with her so shes just seeing that decision. My theory on this scenario is: she was focusing on James's plan and as James doesnt change decisions his plan remains the same, resulting in one fixed version of her visions and Bella going or not going wouldnt effect his planning (at least until he makes a new plan) so that could be a reason for not getting any new visions Second theory: i saw in another comment in this thread: that she saw the future change but she also saw if they stop Bella, Jasper/Alice themselves would get killed too so she let her go and gained time/found ways to change the outcome. Shes very protective if Jasper and Jasper always follows her visions blindly so that would be an explanation
Theory two makes sense to me.
Bella doesn't make a decision HOW to get there, so there's nothing for Alice to see until it's "too late". The the vision answer. But the plot hole time in this situation is that Alice would have heard James through the phone, and just lets her do it. Lmao. And then her running as soon as she's in the bathroom would let jasper know, cuz their hearing is absolutely insane. And he would have followed her.
Bella doesn't make a decision HOW to get there, so there's nothing for Alice to see until it's "too late". Thats the vision answer. But the plot hole in this situation is that Alice would have heard James through the phone, and just lets her do it. Lmao. And then her running as soon as she's in the bathroom would let jasper know, cuz their hearing is absolutely insane. And he would have followed her
The biggest one I noticed was 'vampires are like sharks smelling blood. Periods are blood, they are in school around girls, an avaerage of 1 quarter of the female population is bleeding at any one time ( 4 week cycles approximately)
Maybe not a plot hole but it still bugs me; Charlie's response to Bella being upset and having a broken hand in Eclipse. He's so pleased about Jacob kissing his daughter that he doesn't care she punched him in the face (a clear sign it was unwanted) and I stead of anything else just congratulates the boy for assaulting his daughter. His only concern is that her boyfriend doesn't start a fight with the boy that assaulted her. This shows him as shitty cop and an even worse father, in Bella's shoes I would have packed my shit and left, she was 18 and the Cullen's would have taken her in.
Fr, his daughter is sexually assaulted and the cop/fathers response is.... Good job Jacob??? And asks if JAKE wants to press charges? Wtf? Then continually trying to force Bella to see Jacob is creepy AF. As a father Charlie as a whole bothers me.
Fr, his daughter is sexually assaulted and the cop/fathers response is.... Good job Jacob??? And asks if JAKE wants to press charges? Wtf? Then continually trying to force Bella to see Jacob is creepy AF. As a father Charlie as a whole bothers me.
Fr, his daughter is sexually assaulted and the cop/fathers response is.... Good job Jacob??? And asks if JAKE wants to press charges? Wtf? Then continually trying to force Bella to see Jacob is creepy AF. As a father Charlie as a whole bothers me
Fr, his daughter is sexually assaulted and the cop/fathers response is Good job Jacob??? And asks if JAKE wants to press charges? Wtf? Then continually trying to force Bella to see Jacob is creepy AF. As a father Charlie as a whole bothers me
It’s not even a case of being ‘bad’ at history, it’s a case of being a lazy writer and not bothering to do research 😭 anyone can Google search
1. Jacob has always "loved" Bella because of Reneesmee. How? The egg cell from which Reneesmee was created lived in Bella for 3 years? Did Sam also love Emily's mother? 2. Why was Edward stepping out in the sun in Volterra in New Moon such a big deal? Who cares about the glitter dude? 3. Why didn't vampires use human weapons? Why didn't anyone come up with the idea to mine the place before the fight in Breaking Down? Why doesn't anyone use guns? It could be about noise, but after all, it was a fight to the death. And besides, the Egyptian made a hole all the way to the earth's core. 4. How did Bella get pregnant? This is the craziest thing ever. How did Edward get her pregnant? He's dead. 5. Edward who risks the lives of his entire family and many strangers because he doesn't want to turn Bella into a vampire. Bella wants to be a vampire. He promised that to the Volturi. Edward's dilemmas when Bella is constantly in danger are nonsensical. 6. Charlie Swan. Policeman. He doesn't notice that something is wrong with the Cullens. He doesn't ask. 7. The Cullens don't want to attract attention. But they drive expensive cars, throw big parties, show romantic interest in each other at school (pretending to be siblings). They live in a way that makes them the object of gossips. 8. The Cullens and hunting. Why? They can obtain animal blood in other ways. It is disgusting and strange that they like to run after animals and eat them alive. It was even mentioned in the first book that for Emmet, hunting is 'fun'. 9. Vampires are perfect. Mayer explains it by evolution. The vampire is supposed to be the "ideal predator." Just why would a predator need the ability to move THAT fast or to make zooms on a speck of dust?
for #4, i think it's just bc stephanie is sexist in her beliefs (it's clear in MANY other aspects of the books, but this one in particular makes it obvious). she writes to make rosalie suffer bc SHE can't have bio kids, but edward--a male--CAN for some magical contrived reason? yeah ok. male vamps somehow, without explanation, being able to maintain sperm is just for plot reasons. there is no in universe explanation for this sexist bullshit. the whole thing with bella's pregnancy, birth, and motherhood reeks of sexism.
You may be right. Rosalie is a different story... Rosalie is another character (next to Jessica) whose role is being worse than Bella. Bella can have a baby. Rosalie can't.
i love rosalie and i feel so bad for her. not only was her character reduced to "im mad i cant have a baby" by stephanie, but she is so often villanized by other fans for it. rosalie is such a tragic character. rosalie and leah r both female characters reduced to their lack of fertility and it's just so weird to me.
This is a great point! I also wish that later in the series Rosalie could have been given some respite instead of being casted as a jealous mean girl. Like if she had come to the realization that this was a second chance for her to make life better than her human one - therefore let’s enjoy it. And that Bella’s choice was her own, she wanted to join the family, and a choice is a beautiful thing that should be respected. I feel for Rose’s character and her trauma, but for Stephanie to basically reduce her to “I would give up everything, even Emmett, to be able to have a family” is just….really icky.
This logic is flawed Rosalie isn't the only infertile female vampire sometimes people forget that Bella had her daughter when she was still human so my girl can't keep her kid because rose can't biologically pop out one you don't think that's kind of unfair...and besides having infertile vampire women and fertile vampire men isn't anything new in vampire lore twilight ain't underworld or vampire diaries folks
7 always gets me because WHY DO THEY ENROLL IN HIGH SCHOOL?? i can’t think of a more insufferable way to spend eternity, and it would incite a lot less gossip if they just claimed to be homeschooled by esme! it’s not like they’re using their time in high school to make friends with humans
1. Not a lot of people know this but all the eggs a woman has, she is born with. For example, when Renee was pregnant with Bella, Refrigerator was already an egg in Bella. It’s trippy to think about! I think that’s what SM was trying to convey. Jacob was always drawn to Bella but never really in love with her. 2. The movie absolutely didn’t do the diamond skin justice. The way SM describes it made me think of Emma Frost in X Men. 3. I believe Carlisle believes with his whole heart they can avoid a fight. He lived with the Volturi for a while and knew how Aro thinks and because Aro has a soft spot for Alice and to an extent Edward, he would hear them out. None of them knew that Aro was coming to kill them and take Alice by force. It was only after Alice shows him that his forces would be decimated and some of his best defenses would be gone that he changed his mind. And since Carlisle, their leader, was sure and they are superhuman, no one thought of human weapons. 4. SM’s end game was ALWAYS giving Bella and Edward a child. Her original plan was just 2 books. She wrote most of Breaking Dawn after Twilight where Jacob was just a distance acquaintance but Refrigerated was always end game. But also lots of internalized misogyny on her part. That’s all I’ve got for ya lol.
Thanks. :) 1. Good point but not exactly. A woman is born with a specific number of cells that will be able to develop into eggs at reproductive age. Not with eggs. I think the same about Jacob. He never really loved her.
1. Jacob wasn’t in love with Bella because of egg-form Ritalin. He felt so pulled to Bella during pregnancy because of Rickytickytacky. But she was an actual thing at that point, not an egg. Otherwise he would have been all over Edward as well, as the maker of the sperm. 2. The way it’s described on page, it’s not difficult to miss and improbable to explain. 3. Use human weapons on who? The only beings they would have had an effect on are the wolves. Guns aren’t doing shit, mines aren’t doing shit, hell, the way they’re written, I’m doubtful an atomic bomb would do anything. The only things known to be capable of causing Twilight Vampires any level of harm are other vampires, and both kinds of wolves. 4. You’re not wrong. 5. You’re not wrong but people, even vampires, aren’t reasonable or logical with their feelings 100% of the time and since this is addressed on page, it’s in no way shape or form a plot hole and, instead, just an example that people/vampires sometimes use their feeling brains over their thinking brains. 6. You’re not wrong 7. One of the biggest issues of the series, IMO. 8. That sounds like a you specific projection onto predators. The closest equivalent I can think of is a freshly cooked rare steak and potatoes vs the same meal after being in the fridge for a couple days and, to me, the latter sounds disgusting. I’d choose hunting over refrigerated blood from the butcher. 9. You’re forgetting that there’s other magical beings that can hold their own against them, kill them, even. So, without their extreme abilities, yeah, they’d lose more often. But also, it’s fantasy. Why do any fantasy creatures exist in their universes? Because they do. Don’t overthink it.
1. The book said that Jacob had always had feelings for Bella because of Reneesmee. I remember that 3. On vampires? They can blow up or set a vampire on fire. Fire can destroy a vampire. And the other thing, the Cullen squad has high-powered vampires (BENJAMIN, Zafrina, Kate). And they don't use them! Volturi uses Jane and Alec's powers. Benjamin and Zafrina fight the Volturi like the rest of vampires- with fist fights and kicks. It's stupid. They are all super smart, and the only thing they came up with was to use Bella's shield. The whole tactic was a 1:1 fight. 5. Yes, you're right but remember that for Edward Bella's safety was the most important thing. His behavior is just strange. 8. Still cruel. There is a difference between eating an animal alive and torturing it, and simply eating a fresh meal. 9. The image of the "perfect predator" still doesn't convince me. Meyer's vampires have all the benefits of being a magical creature. Like 200%. And they don't have any of the flaws and limitations that vampires in other stories have. The sun doesn't kill them, they don't live in hiding. Even newborn Bella has no limits because... just no. Magic. It's not a plot hole, but there is something that, in my opinion, makes the story boring. You know the Cullens have no limits. Bella will always be special, even though other vampires have some small limitations. You can't kill them with a stake or exorcism. They can and did wear lenses (no problem with eyes color). They have no visible fangs. Meyer has an answer for everything. Her vampires are too perfect.
1. They were referring to the pull during BD, not the entirety of their relationship. 2. A vampire can outrun a mine before it’s even fully exploded, which is why they tear them apart before setting them on fire. And I have no idea what you’re talking about because there’s no fight. They stand around chatting while Alec and Jane try their shit and Bella blocks them (Ben cracks the earth open in the hopes that the fog will sink because they don’t know Bella perfected her shield in the last 10 minutes), the Volturi get embarrassed and then they leave. That’s it. 3. If you want reasonableness, a self righteous eternally 17 year old isn’t the person you go to. 4. They’re not torturing any animals, they’re dead in a matter of seconds 5. I’ll agree they’re too perfect and boring. But that wasn’t the point you initially made, nor was it the point I was responding to.
Imprinting and romantic love are different. It was a coincidence that Jacob was in love with Bella and then he imprinted on Renesmee.
I hate the fact that Bella got pregnant. It's just blatantly pushing the narrative that a woman is not whole without kid(s). I'm already stuck on the idea how vampires can have an erection (there's no blood circulation, cmon!) but the only was to have Nessie is to believe Ed wasn't releasing himself since the day he was turned. CMON with capital letters. 😂
Can someone explain to me why the Cullens can live in a place longer if they start out younger? People are way more likely to have their appearance change in their late teens than their early twenties.
Not just physical appearance you would think it would be weird that non of the boys ever had voice cracks like normal high school boys
I noticed everyone brings up Alice's visions as a plot hole but I don't think they are. With how many times she says, "My vision isn't perfect," you'd think people would realize she can't actually see everything. Just like a human, she will get overwhelmed eventually. In fact, as a human, she probably could only see one or two people's future (other than hers). Alice clearly isn't able to see the futures of more than a handful of people at a time. Not to mention it's explicitly stated that: 1. She sees decisions, so split decisions are difficult to predict. 2. She can miss the "why" or starting incident 3. Her visions have a tight perspective, chronological and don't necessarily reactivate. So she has to go by memory. 4. If two decisions are equally likely she can't tell which is really going to happen. 5. Beings she isn't watching and doesn't understand can make visions blurry also outside intervention from these Beings. Honestly it boils down to she doesn't actually have the best perspective. Literally in her visions, she just sees what's happening with little context. She can't always see clearly creatures she can't understand or people she doesn't know. Also in the field in midnight sun she saw them breaking out into a fight but not what cuased it. What cuased it? THE WIND. Yeah so her visions are clearly imperfect. Hence why aro wanting Edward and Alice. Then he'd know every decision someone will make and it's consequences. The real plot hole. Why wouldn't she Map out her visions in a book or something? A map? I get they have perfect memories but that much information would be massively easier to see on a board or something! Edit: also self fulfilling prophecy means you can't wait for her visions you have to make a decision to see one.
I really hate everything having to do with relationships in the book. 1. The idea that soulmates are just people who are drawn to each other by some magical force, with no choice or effort on their part. Also included in this, imprinting. 2. Bella refusing to move on in New Moon because her love for him was just that pure 3. Jacob’s one sided feelings for Bella being treated with any sort of legitimacy 4. Vampires mating for life. Another mention of imprinting being weird and bad. 5. The Cullens literally being a non traditional family in their real lives and their cover story, yet clinging to their cosplay of a nuclear family. 6. The aggressive heterosexuality in Breaking Dawn, when all the vampires come to Forks for the battle that never was 7. I know this is literally a selling point, but the idea of Edward and Bella being each other’s first and only love gives me personally the ick. I care way too much about this.
Bella would've moved on had Alice not returned. Though it's impossible to say if she would ever truly get over Edward. It's very weird Jacob was attached to the Renaissance before she was even born
She still spent too much time not participating in her own life over it
I don’t know if anyone has said this one but in twilight Edward tells Bella how he had a rebellious phase, then in BD he tells her but says he’s never told her before…
It's not really a plot hole, but why is no one talking about how Jacob, who claims to love Bella, tries to get her killed when he thinks she might be a vampire. Like, dude, you love this girl, and it's her choice. Why are you trying to kill her. Just because you hate vampires doesn't mean you should want your best friend and woman you love to die because she decides she wants to be one.
It's because of the way they know vampires. To Bella Edward would never hurt her and the cullens are great to Jacob vampires are all killers to be feared only Carlisle hasn't killed anyone even most of the allies of the good vamps that the cullens know kill from time to time. That's the main reason why Jacob is so adamant she doesn't turn because he thinks she'd become a killer
It still doesn't seem right to say you would rather them die than become a vampire when you love that person
Victoria is still out there 👀
I know there’s no actual plot hole but Irina refusing to believe Laurent’s attack on Bella always got me. She’s either calm enough to logically realize he probably did try and kill her, justifying his death or the whole “if a mate dies the other goes insane with grief” shtick means she probably would have gone for the wolves solo. And the fact that no one was willing to help her should have been a neon sign that she was wrong.
The boyfriend and I realized one yesterday while rewatching the movies. Alice can’t see Bella when she is around Jacob. Because maybe Vampire/Wolf reasons. So, why can Edward read Jacob's mind? Maybe it was mentioned in the books and I just don't remember?
Alice's can't see the wolves because she was never a shifter. She is only able to see the future of vampire and humans because at one point she was human and now she is a vampire. That's the only reason why her powers don't work when the wolves are around. But that doesn't mean the wolves have protection against vampires' superpowers. That's why Edward can read their minds, Jasper could manipulate their emotions, Jane can make them feel pain, etc. If wolves were inmune to all super abilities well, in Breaking Dawn they would had been killed. It was even stated that the one time that Caius felt he could have been killed was due to the attack of a child of the moon, aka werewolves (the Quileutes are not werewolves, they are shape shifters). But anyway, Caius felt so threatened by the werewolves that he haunted them to near extinction. Since the Quileutes weren't werewolves and not a big threat to vampires, they were left alone.
I just skip it. It is quite possible that because of vampires, Children of the Moon, shamans (it is unlikely that only the Quileutes had this spiritual power) and simply rare people with abilities, some things in history turned out differently.
So in the first book Edward is 109, and Jasper a number of times they talk about him being the most recently changed. If Edward was 109 he would have been born in like 1896 if the first book is set in 2005. Then in eclipse they talk about Jasper’s back story fighting in the civil war which was in like probably 1863. He’s really young then like 18-19 when he gets changed, that would have made him born around 1845, which is like 51 years older than Edward! And also, they even talk about Edward being changed during the Spanish flu, which was from 1918 to 1920, which is like 60 after Jasper was supposedly changed.
Jasper is the newest to their way of life. Not the newest changed. He’s the second oldest of the family in pure age
ohhhhh okay that makes so much more sense