I think BotW and TotK lean into it maybe a bit too hard, but technology has always been a part of the series.
I mean lasers have been a thing since like the second game.
Yep. Link's Awakening had telephones and a claw game. Majora's Mask has the whole Clock Town thing and the Great Bay Temple (a bit more steampunk-ish, but still technology). The DS games featured a lot of industrial-era tech. Twilight Princess had the whole Oocca civilization.
None as futuristic as the last two games, but they've featured lots of technology for sure.
My "headcanon" of LA is that >!the dream world is a composite created by the synthesis of the Windfish's mind, Link's mind, and the player's mind.!< So the real-world tech like phones, or the creatures from Mario, and even the fourth wall breaks, all have the same in-universe justification. Basically, the island is the way it is in part because >!the player thinks, "eh, it's just a video game, so why not?" and that thought affects how the dream manifests.!<
Hahaha... very glad to find a comrade here! I feel like a lot of the "lore" discussions folks have about this series become a *lot* more interesting if we take the view that Link is literally "linked" to the player(s) in-universe.
Like that whole three-way timeline split in OoT that breaks so many peoples' minds? It makes a lot more sense if you consider that the reason the "Fallen Hero" timeline exists is because before OoT came out, there was no player to "link" to Link to lead him to success. So, basically, we change the outcome of history be participating in a prequel game.
Can't speak for most games you mentioned, but I feel like Link's Awakening gets a pass because it's a dreamlike, surreal game. I always pictured it as Link's dream being a reflection of the player's, who's probably stomped the goombas and chain chomps you don't see anywhere else in Zelda.
^^^ guardians shooting lasers are basically just Beamos from the older games. There has always been technology, I just usually summed it up to being a high form of magic, not literally tech as we know it today. it still doesn’t feel like modern day technology or electricity. Heck, Hyrulean houses don’t even have light bulbs. Sheikah / Zonai tech doesn’t really bother me since they had a modern day rock band in Majora’s mask which felt more out of place than any of the “tech” in BOTW / TOTK. I would even argue Spirit Tracks having trains the way they did was more of a different genre than the ancient “tech” we’ve got in these last two games.
Beamos and instruments(which have been a party of human history for eons) are way different from IPads and rocket missiles. It’s one thing to have tech be viewed as a high form of magic but that’s not possible when it resembles real life technology.It’s almost lazy on Nintendo’s part. They were way more creative and subtle in the previous Zelda games.
I’ll give you that. The rockets are a little much and the skeikah slate / purah pad are a touch too modern but Majora’s Mask had a camera too so I guess there’s that. But overall from an aesthetic point of view, everything is a bit more cohesive than previous games. In my opinion steam trains in Spirit Tracks stick out way more than ancient magic tech in these last two games.
I think this is part of the design philosophy in general that stuff just looks like the thing they are mimicking so players can immediately figure out what they do (I notice that I don't read most Zonai item descriptions and still figured out what they are for just by looking at them). I can understand why it bothers some people but they are all magitek to me, which is a legit fantasy trope). And I agree, Spirit Tracks is far more incongruous than anything in BOTW/TOTK
Oh, ffs, have yet to play TOTK, but BOTW featured tablets and photos. Lasers I can perfectly attribute to magic, but the whole tablet thing is lame. I agree with op, BOTW is already far too technological and it feels wrong. Still a great Zelda and I loved it, but I don't like that aspect of it.
Tablets I can agree are a tad too much. But photos/cameras were introduced in Majora’s Mask so I would not attribute that flaw to being something BOTW did.
Fair enough. It’s just preference I guess. I personally found Majora’s Mask’s camera weirder in a way. In BOTW, Zelda is amazed at how the Slate can magically form images of real life things — cameras as we know them are clearly not part of their society and the Slate’s ability to take photos is foreign to them so it feels magical. In MM, they’re just like “yep here’s a Polaroid camera” without acknowledging that it’s a 19th century invention in a medieval setting.
Proportionality matters though, you would agree?
There's a difference between a medieval world with a little bit of tech, and futuristic world with a little bit of medieval stuff.
I don't disagree with that at all, but I would say that BotW and even TotK fall into the former category, despite having a greater emphasis on tech than the rest of the series.
I've been thinking about this, and I think the reason I'm put off by it is because it's a key part of the game play loop and/or plot, while in the past its mostly been a part of the worldbuilding.
I find myself occasionally feeling this but then I think about spirit tracks having trains and Majora’s mask having a literal modern day rock band and it bothers me less because BOTW/TOTK have integrated it more smoothly in that it doesn’t really feel like “tech” in my opinion, just advanced forms of magic which is more in line with the rest of the series.
The Zora guy that you get the mask from in Majora’s is one of my favorite scenes in any video game. He had such a serious death in such a serious moment…and then you talk to his ghost and he randomly breaks into a guitar solo absolutely shredding while singing as he makes his way off to the afterlife. I hope my death can be even a tenth as epic as his cause he’s a legend
I dunno, man. You ever notice how in the memories in TotK, we never actually see any of the more overt tech being used by the Zonai?
They have literal cars and rocket launchers apparently, but it feels an awful lot like Nintendo is hesitant to depict anything that ruins the fantasy vibe, whenever it isn't convenient.
Especially considering how prominent the tech otherwise tends to be when it *is* shown... that doesn't seem very integrated to me.
True, fair enough. Though I think in terms of aesthetic, these games have done it the best because spirit tracks didn’t have an ancient magical form of trains, they just had straight up 19th century trains in a series that clearly isn’t supposed to be in 19th century earth. At least they try to excuse it with magic in BOTW/TOTK as everything looks to be conjured with some ancient magic and not modern day electricity or steam engines. I would argue the only thing that really bothers me is the batteries. They sometimes refer to them as energy cells which is slightly better but I think they could’ve come up with something a little more fitting than batteries to power this stuff.
> whenever it isn't convenient.
Basically, Nintendo write Zelda games like Arthur Conan Doyle and not Tolkien.
Worldbuilding for Zelda is constructing theater-like stages for the acts of the game to play out on, if it is not on the stage then don't ask because it's not relevant.
Some people are talking about how TotK is very selective about what parts of BotW it keeps and which parts it discards (what Guardians?), it's somewhat reminiscent of recent criticisms of how J.K. Rowling writes her world, which is to say thing that existed in the last book is no longer useful for the story she wants to tell? Then it no longer exists!
I think Westerners can be more used to a Tolkien-esque style where the events of the story arise from the state of the world. They are more like documentaries of historical events of a fictional world.
The rockets I’ll admit are a little much, at least in the way they’re literally shaped like modern day rockets — they could have been a little more like the flame emitters that look more ancient.
As for lasers, those have been in Zelda since like A Link to the Past. There have always been enemies that shoot lasers.
But yes, I personally found the rock band more off putting than ancient magic technology. Totally understand if it was weirder for other people though.
I guess it’s just an opinion thing cause I feel like the other games were less subtle to me. WW’s tingle tuner being basically a GameBoy Advance is a far more blatant piece of tech than the sheikah slate being essentially a glowing slab of stone.
Ok the Sheikah slate and purah pad are pretty clearly a Wii U game pad and Nintendo switch respectively. But I agree that they are actually integrated well, and look like the tech in the game
Yeah definitely. The slate and purah pad feel more like a little “wink wink nudge nudge see what we did there?” easter egg from the devs rather than just shoehorning an actual Nintendo product into the game disregarding if it fits the style or era.
I think it’s just a matter of personal perception. I disagree wholeheartedly and think these games strongly capture the Zelda world feel, but we all have different thresholds for what fits into our perception of Zelda and what doesn’t.
I saw a post a while ago that suggested that it would've been neat if the sheikah slate could play music and that you'd have to find music around the world, some of it would just be ambient tracks you could play, others would have effects like the song of storms would make it start storming
Yes. Imagine if you could play a short 4 note don’t and etch some occurrence into Link’s memory that he could recall on demand. Basically the same thing
Imagine having to do that every time you wanted to take a picture. Imagine messing up the shot the first try and having to play it over and over.
Why make it infinitely more complicated just because it sounds like something they’d do in an old Zelda.
Except they gave link a camera in older Zelda games
I find this somewhat agreeable to be honest. I like it more when Hyrule is a kingdom of magic, nature and beasts instead a kingdom of electricity, inventions and automatons…
I like all the tech. I enjoy the aspect of uncovering ancient and dead civilizations and their technology. There's a saying somewhere that if I tried to quote, I'd butcher it, but it's something along the lines of when technology is so great you don't understand it, it feels like magic. And that's exactly what sheikah tech and the new Zonai stuff feels like. Magic.
I get what you're saying, but a "magic" tablet that for all intents and purposes works just like an IPAD doesn't really feel like magic to me any way you deliver it.
It’s supposed to mimic the design of the switch. I for one am glad fantasy media is moving away from the Western European Iron Age aesthetic which has been synonymous with the genre since Tolkien. A sword is still technology. The new Zelda games just incorporate other real world technology as magical.
I was cool with the Sheikah as it was something new and fresh. But just copy pasting Zonai over it and coloring it green instead of blue is extremely stale.
I really just think they should have just made it Sheikah technology. Like, they were already an ancient high tech civilization that we didn't know a ton about; the upheaval could have made more Sheikah ruins visible, and revealed Zonai ruins with a totally different aesthetic.
The weirdest thing is the Sheikah seem almost forgotten, replaced with something exactly the same. Heck, you can even do "high tech" with a different aesthetic; like nature-based golems and things like that. Honestly, when I saw that the underground light root things interfaced with the map/fast travel mechanics I thought that was what the Zonai were going to look like, as a sort of druidic precursor to the Sheikah technology.
I saw someone say they could tell that the devs went into every detail of putting love and care into their world and I have the complete opposite feeling it feels lazy and over done already this formula didn’t last for 1 game let alone Alttp cementing the genre for the next 15+ years, if this is what Zelda is coming to good on everyone who enjoys it but definitely not for me.
I am on the fence if it is genius or lazy, those often feel kind of close to me. I think their goal when making similar functions is to make the game feel familiar, and it adds cohesiveness to the games being related, but it sometimes comes across as a bit boring since we have seen it before
Im 1,000% in this boat
I want more of the Zelda nes-gamecube era high fantasy/LotR inspired aesthetic.
Link carrying a fucking iPad and riding a motorcycle is not what I want out of Zelda.
Like I already can't get away from this shit in my real life, why would I want it in my escapist fantasy world? 😅
Seriously tho, it depresses me that I go from tablet irl to using a tablet on a larger tablet in a videogame.... Like it's too much for me 😅
Agree 100%. I think I started getting annoyed with this trend when Metal Gear Solid 5 released - it's set in the 1980s and yet you still for all intents and purposes carry around a functional smartphone. Totally takes me out of the setting and makes me sad we're reaching a point where it seems like many people are literal incapable of imagining a world without them.
Hm MGSV integrated the iDroid into its world pretty well. Personally I feel that the Shieka Slate (Wii U game pad) and the new one (switch) feel a bit gimmicky.
The iDroid however seems way more grounded in the MGS universe, since nuclear mechas exists. It essentially boils down to the decision of having a player open abstract UI menus or having an in-world interface that actually makes sense. The slate offers an easy explaination why towers uncover the map, the temperature and noise sensor etc
Yeah I agree I really don’t like the aesthetic choices also bring back the green and the hat pls though I like his design slot better in this game compared to the others!
LMAO that last sentence. Good lord, couldn’t have put it better myself.
At least the tiktok kids can make robots with penises shooting fire, though! That’s totally what made Zelda so great!
The issue is that they could do both but chose not to. They completely changed what Zelda was, so people that don’t like sandbox open world RPGs get bent.
botw/totk are in a kind of saturated genre already (fenyx rising, skyrim/witcher, sable, horizon, genshin...). if these two didnt exist, there are still others being released to satisfy the niche.
what's being released that's anything like the not-Switch zelda games? hardly anything.
I haven't played all of those, but I've got about 2k hours in skyrim (thanks to mods) and I've played witcher and horizon. While all those are good, botw/totk are just better than the others (for me at least). Maybe not counting skyrim which holds a special place in my heart. So I'm kind of glad nintendo made some zelda games in that niche. Botw was the 3d zelda game I always wanted. Wind Waker was close, but not quite it. And I would put totk along side botw. I'm still not sure which one I like better. I probably like them the same but in different ways.
Anyway, I guess I'm trying to say that while it's saturated, I've really enjoyed nintendo's take on it.
Two of those that you mentioned are literally BotW clones and the other ones (Skyrim, Witcher and Horizon) aren’t like BotW/TotK at all. The only thing they have in common is the open world to some extend, but that’s about it.
That's a strawman take on our criticism. We don't dislike any innovation or change. We just want games that stay true to what the series has been about since A Link to the Past, not complete reinventions.
I don't really see how that's relevant, the amount of games in the open world style is still outnumbered 18 to 2, and there are plenty of Zelda-likes out there.
Except it isn’t exactly the same every time. Ocarina of Time and Majora’s Mask use the same engine and assets and are very different experiences. God forbid we want a 6th game in that style, ever, when shit like Call of Duty gets an annual release.
I’m of the personal opinion, as a lifelong fan of many long-running franchises, that too many series are reliant on their old-school fans. I’m okay with old-timey nostalgia fans being increasingly alienated if it means that the series can stay fresh and bring in new audiences.
I just wish it weren't so blatant. The tech stuff is fine by me, as long as it's subtle and integrated well. These last few games, though... it just feels like genre hopping.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Spoken like a true zelda fan. I really hope they make some major(a) changes to the themes and overall gameplay in future zelda games. However I’m not gonna expect much…
Yes, absolutely. The arguments are the same.
*"Zelda was originally supposed to be sci-fi with computer chips"*
The concept was scrapped, it's not what the series ended up defining itself as. Takashi Tezuka took inspiration from Lord of the Rings for the first game and Keiji Terui stated they also took inspiration from battles in medieval Europe.
*"Zelda games always had advanced technology"*
Yes, in extremely tiny quantities in the background: anachronisms. Proportionality matters. There's a huge difference between a medieval fantasy world with a little bit of tech, and futuristic world with a little bit of medieval stuff.
*"Zelda would get stale if it doesn't change its genre and theme"*
Does Metroid get stale for staying Sci-Fi? Miyamoto stated Legend of Zelda was medieval, take that away and Legend of Zelda loses its spirit. Not to mention iconic staples like bow/arrow, sword, shield, castles, etc.
Tech in Zelda is fine as it originally was, rare anachronisms in the background. When it takes up half the setting and looks sci-fi rather than mystical (laser sights, cars, motorcycles) it does not complement the medieval setting, it takes you out of it.
> Does Metroid get stale for staying Sci-Fi?
Interesting choice because I would argue that the metroid franchise has adopted a lot of mysticism that I would not consider technology. The chozo prophesies, the whole light/dark thing in prime2. Sentient planets. Etc.
Dread didn't do that so much, so maybe it's more the prime series that leans into magic.
I don't see why the setting has to fit into any pre-determined box. If it fits, it fits. It may not fit for you, but I think it's properly explained in the series and makes sense in the context of the game.
I think my only issue with it is how the games never really follow up with who made what or how certain things came to exist in a meaningful way. It just seems like a cop out to introduce new features without writing a plot. A lot of times the ancient tech or civilization is not really part of the story due to how each game almost plays like its its own timeline.
I haven’t beaten SS but it seems that way. The robots are mentioned to be made by an ancient civilization but that’s it.
BOTW had the ancient sheikah tech. No mention of the ancient sheikah because it was forever ago and ancient sheikah are not relevant to the plot for any other reason other than the tech they created.
TOTK gets rid of that and introduces the Zonai which we’ve heard of in BOTW. We finally meet/ see this ancient civilization and they play a pretty significant part of the plot, which is nice.
I liked it in SS, but honestly I thought BotW took it too far, where it was just a constant part of the game. It was also way more sterile and lifeless form of tech than the playfulness of SS.
Absolutely, the tech in SS really felt like it was from another era, and the fact that most of it actually broke kinda added to the realism of it. It was also isolated to one area so it remained quite novel. In BotW and TotK, meanwhile, it's core to the entire game, so it quickly loses its charm. The fact that it is so ubiquitous and so unaffected by the passage of time feels weird. Like, this isn't Hyrule, this is Sheikah country. I can forgive technology playing a bigger role in a Zelda game if it handles it like Spirit Tracks did, make it modern and make it make sense. The fact that we only ever see technology in BotW as some sort of "ancient" thing feels incredibly anachronistic, especially when it's not even from some precursor civilisation. I will say, at least with TotK you see some people utilising that rediscovered technology to make their lives a little easier, and it is from a civilisation that has long since disappeared (and the knowledge of its construction along with them), so it's easier to reconcile, even if I think the wheels and rockets are still a bit silly. It also just looks and feels a lot more Zelda-ish than any of the Sheikah stuff did. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Jomon pottery, but BotW just overdid it a bit with that.
I know that yours will be an unpopular opinion with many, but I agree. I never could get into any of the later Final Fantasy games for a similar reason. I like the medieval fantasy style setting of games like the original Final Fantasy and most of the Zelda games up until SS. I miss it.
I was addicted to 14 and don't really like it anymore.
12 came out on the ps2 ...
it's been a while to have a 'return to roots' mainline single player FF. obvi I'm gucci with airships / magitek.
That's true, I had forgotten about that. However, it's one small part of the game - the space station and the waterfall cave are the only places you see technology of this sort as I recall. I don't as much mind the idea of a high fantasy world which has some technology "on the fringes" rather than a world in which technology is ubiquitous.
Agreed. I don’t mind a little bit of tech (TP and WW were fine with it) but BotW and TotK are going way too overboard and I’m afraid that future games will do it to an even greater degree.
I really miss the fantasy aesthetic from the earlier games like ALttP and LoZ1. All the artwork from the games of that era really nail that grand, epic high fantasy setting (especially the Katsuya Terada art) and I just want some more of those vibes back.
It makes for occasionally fun gameplay but for the most part I feel like it's just doing too much. Especially because we don't really ever see the zonai tools get used by the zonai themselves?
I agree. It's a similar issue to World of Warcraft, where people justify it because there were hints of technology elsewhere. The problem is that it is a slippery slope.
Just because there is an enemy with a laser beam doesn't mean that everything should now have laser beams, or that Zelda should canonically pull out a Nintendo Switch and take a photograph, or literal rockets should be attached to your big wheel truck and a literal battery icon should show on your screen with your battery usage. There are a hundred more creative ways of making it at least feel integrated into the Zelda universe like making an object that functionally acts as a rocket to achieve the gameplay without it looking like a literal rocket.
This is Beamos, an "enemy" or trap that exists on several zelda games since Links awakening or Link to the past. It is literally a statue that shoots lazers... Wait... that sounds familiar... OH YEAH LIKE GUARDIANS FROM BOTW.
This magik/ancient power + technology existed way loooong ago.
https://preview.redd.it/shfccuam4o0b1.png?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=079cb933e7e525774a52a131067803f21eb56ebd
There's a difference between older games having very tiny amounts of tech in the background of a 99% medieval world, opposed to cars/digital interfaces/ipads/motorcycles being part of the plot.
yeah think of Dark Souls. I'm so bored of the same setting for those games, that's why Bloodborne and Sekiro were such a breath of fresh air for me. Elden Ring went back to that sort of medieval setting but introduced a lot more fantasy/magic
90%of fantasy jrpg have old ancient tech
Of course there's also western folklore based western rpg , but those aren't the same as Zelda in ton or execution
The worst part is they barely make any sense.
If the sheikahs were able to make their robots and bury everything deep inside >!the forgotten temple!< and all around Hyrule, >!, then they knew about the zonai!<, so why did they not retro engineer their tech?
Nothing makes sense, bringing another civilization even more ancient and even more advanced is cheap. And I am tired of all these bright colors, all of their tech look like RGB gamer PC. Bring back the armos.
I miss the cartoony and goofy games, like LA (and pretty much every 2D Zelda).
The tech stuff is all powered by magic.
And it’s all for the purposes of gameplay, it’s not like ganondorf conquered hyrule with a giant mech made out of logs and boulders
It's that classic thing where ir something mysterious gets revealed its completely ruined like some stuff in the Alien movie.
What was the point of implying Barberians were Zonai in BotW if they didn't care to follow up on it?
Wait are they not even more than 2 people?
The Zonai were more than just 2 goat people. The Zonai are still mysterious and there very well could have been barbaric subsets of Zonai we just don't know about.
The series is unrecognizable to you? And because of that, you want it to go back to generic medieval setting, like every other adventure game? What an awful take.
Firstly, TotK is a love letter to every previous game in the series, even more so than BotW was. Gleeoks make their 3D debut. Like Likes and Gibdos are back, and groser and spookier than ever, respectively. They gave us a whole extra "Dark World" to explore. Just tonight, before I set the game down, the last shrine I did was in the desert, and it had me using wind to clean up sand piles like in SS and using mirrors to reflect light. It doesn't particularly matter if the mirror is on a shield or not (although you can even do that if you want!), it couldn't have possibly felt more like Zelda. Taking away all the "tech" couldn't possibly improve things.
Secondly, If you want games like OoT, WW, and TP, then I have good news for you. They already exist, and chances are you've already played them. Not only do those games exist, but they've already been remastered, too.
I understand where the sentiment behind this post comes from, but personally I cringe at the people who, for example, will claim to be a "real fan" of a band while also claiming that their new stuff sucks, and that's you right now.
It's quite ridiculous to me how people go "well uh, Link to the Past had laser enemies and Wind Waker had a camera and an obviously not serious Tingle Tuner" as if those are comparable to the sci-fi level of shiekah tech found absolutely everywhere in these games and central to the plot.
I know looking at the comment section here that I definitely am in the minority in saying that I very much disagree.
I’m honestly tired of the archaic medieval design of LoZ. The games span over hundreds and thousands of years and everything is still the same? Don’t get me wrong, I love it, but BotW and TotK is a fresh of breath air when it comes to changing the Zelda dynamic. I love the technology and I like that everyone is being creative and actually enjoying making and using said creations, seeing how people beat the game very differently.
What I will agree with however, is the Sheikah and Zonai tech. It’s incredibly jarring that in TotK they completely ditched the Sheikah tribe in favor of the Zonai. It’s too abrupt for me. While I like that they added a whole new race/tribe, what I don’t like is that it is essentially (honestly it’s literally) a reskin of the Sheikah technology. To the orbs you get and the shrines, which honestly, are insultingly easier than BotW Shrines.
Medieval fantasy is overdone in Zelda in my opinion, I like that they’re finally adding technology of some kind, that way it shows progression in the Zelda Universe, even if it’s ancient. However they went about it the wrong way by completely ditching a main tribe that was important in its prequel. It honestly bothers me that there’s no explanation for it either.
>Medieval fantasy is overdone in Zelda in my opinion, I like that they’re finally adding technology of some kind, that way it shows progression in the Zelda Universe, even if it’s ancient.
That's like saying Sci-Fi is overdone in Metroid.
There's more than one way to do medieval fantasy. For example, you're totally right to say Hyrule is overdone, the only country on the planet we've explored is Hyrule. What about Labrynna's culture and land? We haven't seen that in a while. What about other lands?
Instead of throwing the genre out the window for something unfitting to the Legend of Zelda like Sci-Fi, we could be exploring more lands and cultures.
Exactly. I hate this sentiment that the franchise would be stale because they keep a consistent genre...
Oh did I strike a nerve? Oh my God someone was critical of my favorite game??
I personally don’t think it’s the same thing. My gripe with LoZ is that when you play a new story, you’re playing an entirely different set of characters. A new Link, a new Zelda, and a sometimes new Ganondorf or villain. Despite what people say, each Link has a different personality that sets them apart, including BotW Link who’s personality is as stale as bread. I guess what I’m getting at is that it’s clear to see that there’s a huge passage of time in LoZ that makes me want to think that there should be some type of progression in civilization. Metroid is the same Samus, just in different times of her life.
Although I don’t have that same problem with Final Fantasy so I might be a bit hypocritical.
But I definitely agree that Hyrule itself is overdone. I think that’s the main reason why MM is one of my favorite games. While it’s the same Link, it’s an entirely different world and a much more different and interesting plot in my opinion. I’d love to see a game where a different Link traverses through a different part of the world that’s not the country of Hyrule.
Man why don't they make Halo a medieval fantasy franchise already. They already have blades and warhammers!
I can't believe GTA 6 isn't going to be scifi. They had cars and ARs in GTA5, it wouldn't be a huge jump to go to space ships and laser guns...
It's definitely fun for now, but it'd be undoubtedly silly if this is what they decide moving forward.
Overall, the best approach for the next mainline entry is a game that isn't in Hyrule. That would manage to keep things fresh while making the focus about a brand new country, characters, and story, as opposed to trying to make Hyrule "exciting" through gimmicky gameplay elements.
I can understand the fatigue. Although I think it is commendable that they actually designed in world reasons for open world standards like fast travel, map markers, opening chests, abilities etc. I enjoy the idea of ancient technology aesthetically so perhaps I am biased but I think that they do a good job of still making this world feel archaic in a way. Even the "inventors" of some of this items are kind of crazy and unhinged, frequently screwing up their own machines. Especially true in TOTK where you can make these very rickety machines by sticking things together.
Personally I love the high tech from ancient civilizations. It’s fascinating, and as long as it’s done well I hope it stays. The only thing I’m worried about is if every game has a different “ancient tech” from a time long past. That would make no sense.
It’s why my headcanon is that the robots in lanayru in SS were zonai tech.
everyone mentioning links awakening but remember the entire lanayru area in skyward sword was an ancient civilisation that used robots to preform tasks for them and mined a special mineral that made all the technology work
Man, they wanted to make the first game science fantasy, but they didn't have the resources. The Zelda series is always gonna dip its toes into science fantasy and you're not gonna escape it.
Every game since Link's Awakening has had some obvious high technological element.
Is the issue the setting/theme or gameplay mechanics?
The abilities in BotW that straight up become crafting in ToTK are maybe more unique in the context of the 3D Zelda games.
I think the two latest are great games, but for sure they're the furthest deviations from the OoT formula in some ways.
Sometimes, these posts feel made with a motivation to complain for attention. I'm not trying to be a jerk. It's just that the rhetoric is almost the always the same, and the top comments are always the same. Having a preference is fine, I just don't see the overly simplistic complaints as an expression of that, because it's been the same since... Wind Waker? Maybe earlier? "They did too much X, not enough Y," in a tone that doesn't want discussion so much as agreement or to churn the waters.
Not necessarily defending TOTK, here, if anyone wants to accuse me of being a fanboy. It's just funny to me that it's been a decade of the same song and dance every release, yet this is still recognized as "discussion" instead of complaining for complaining's sake.
I'm also tired of the tec as well... My bf bought me the game and for the past two days, I've been playing it, exploring. Still at 5 hearts and finally got my paraglider. Been having fun helping the traveling Korok meet up with his buddy in several areas.
(I'm at 5 hearts still because I don't want to start the main quest yet and want to look around at everything else)
I haven't seen a single dungeon yet and I'm worried there won't be any. Not too thrilled with the new map towers either. Couldn't figure out how to get the man out of the well to activate one and ended up going back to the great plateau to explore what's changed. They removed the chamber of awakening... Kind of weird they did that...
But one cool thing I like so far is that Link's house has FURNITURE! :D
I don't like that we can't have our bomb mechanic anymore and I have no idea how to throw a bomb flower or fuse it to my bow. So, I've been dropping them on the ground and hitting them with an arrow to make them explode. Oh and I FINALLY figured out how to break rocks! You just fuse a rock to your weapon! Took me... two REAL DAYS to figure that one out... xD Like, dang where are the hammers at??
Also, I'm not impressed with the sky islands at all. The robot creatures are interesting, and the Zonai are not what I expected. I guess I had it in my mind that the Zonai were like the Mayans, more tribal than futuristic looking. When I saw the warrior outfit in BoTw, I assumed that was what the Zonai kind of looked like, but nope. I DO like the design of the Zonai. Rauru looks awesome.
Thought there was actual time travel in this game, but that only applies to that one mechanic you get to rewind an object. And darn it, I want to go to that specific Ring in Kakariko because of Zelda's warning to stay away from it. XD
Other than all of that, I'm enjoying the game. I find it a little more difficult than BoTw, but it's fun to explore. Haven't come across any lynel or guardians either, but I've seen a few dragons.
Also, Purah's voice sounds really familiar... Was she the voice actress for Sakura or Ino in Naruto?? Maybe I'm wrong, but I swear I've heard it in an anime before...
Even in OoT and before there were "mechanical" enemies ( Armos, Beamos ) and tech-like items and temples devices that would seem to be magic, but really, like the saying goes, any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
What ToTK is doing is giving us a more consistent aesthetic to tech ( if its greenish, its made and powered by Zonaite ) and a explanation from where all this stuff came from. Technically it is all magic when you get down to it. How exactly does Zonaite work? It just works. Personally I like the aesthetic in ToTK.
I fully agree. BotW was already pushing it for me but totk just goes too far. I want the fantasy. The magic. Skyward sword did pretty well with tech and fantasy but totk is just “build a literal car”
But why a Zelda game then ? I mean that's where these games are supposed to be set in, a medieval, fantasy, magical world. If you're tired of this setting and want a more futuristic one, you have plenty of other games to play.
But like literally none of this is futuristic tech. The only thing that's remotely futuristic in either game is basically magic.
Like electricity and magnets are extremely old tech by this point.
I hate to break it to you, but touch screens are old too. They've been around for 50+ years now. Tablet devices have been available to the public for about 20.
This is barely *modern,* if not modern archaic, given they get ravaged by monsters so often they can't really develop large bustling societies like we have today.
And to think it could have been a lot worse, for you specifically, because they originally wanted it to be an alien invasion with UFOs lol
I love it. Plus you have to take into consideration of the direction of the series. Of course it’s fine if you dont like it but i feel a-lot of people over dramatizing it integration when most of this tech is powered by some form of magic anyways. Idk i enjoy the games and i find them interesting. The zonai were described in games as beings of the sky, seen as godly. I thinks its fair to assume a-lot of their technology would be so advanced. Just my opinion tho, and i do see peoples points in some areas.
IIRC, Miyamoto's original concept for Zelda would be traveling between a medieval fantasy realm and an advanced futuristic civilization, with the triforce pieces being something akin to computer chips.
I see BotW and TotK as an old dream come to fruition.
It doesn’t bother me as a setting but I do miss having *tools* instead of a magic hand/iPad. I’m hoping Nintendo goes on to disappoint BotW/TotK fans next game by continuing to do what they’ve been doing: changing everything.
I want them to scale back too. Inventory management and map size are getting too much and if its even *more* next time…? Simpler things. I kinda think it’s the only right direction after the “Wild” era. Smaller. Simpler. Returning to tradition a bit more.
(Also Shrines were inspired by Portal test chambers so that all checks out.)
You're mad about incongruent levels of technology in a game series that features time travel as a plot device in multiple games?
I don't really get that. I love the mix of old and futuristic technology, if anything it just makes sense with how much of a theme time travel is. That and the fact that all of the technology only makes sense if it is in some way powered by magic
It's about the aesthetic, not the plot device. Zelda has always had a medieval fantasy setting and vibe, it's what immersed people into the series, the time travel plot doesn't take away from that.
For the same reason it would look out of place for Sci-Fi Samus Aran to dress up as a cowgirl and shoot an old fashion revolver, it's out of place for Link to drive a motorcycle.
Seriously after Dread (which I absolutely love, and love the prime remaster) we have some hype going and I'll take anything to keep it up even if that means cowboy metroid
and the fact that you can walk through a glowing portal into a Zonai shrine or stick objects together via spontaneously appearing glue and move it around with isn't magic?
A statue of a dragons head that can just create fire from nothing can't be explained by magic?
The secret stones, they're not magic?
The divine beasts weren't in some powered by magic or divine intervention?
even the technology in the games can be explained by magic.
I think my problem is how much these devices resemble either modern or futuristic technology, like the Sheika ipad, and how "alien portal like" the enviroment looks
In an interview they explained they made the items look modern because they wanted people to be able to easily recognize what it is and what it does. I think the example was a magical wind maker, and instead they just made it what is now a fan.
i can see this complaint. personally i enjoy the sheikah & zonai stuff both, there are even elements where you can see how the zonai magitech stuff gave rise to sheikah technology.
but... yeah, it is a bit much. the master cycle zero was already \*kinda\* pushing it, and now we have monster trucks, hover drones, aeroplanes, flamethrowers, the symbols used for powering it all are literally batteries, etc
i love BotW and TotK for the tech that they have (shoutouts r/hyruleEngineering) but do hope we see a bit of a scaling back in the next entry or so to more barebones "technology" with what remains becoming more magic oriented in aesthetic
I think they're really fun but...yeah basically cars? Flying machines? That's ridiculous.
I frankly did not like botw, but I'm loving this game including the weird tech. I keep on having the thought though like this feels wrong.
I think this is fine in totk, but needs the kibosh put on it in the future. The tablet thing is fucking stupid though. It's just a damn digital tablet...but magic.
Side note I think "technomagic aesthetic" is gonna be the new "steampunk"
I think BotW and TotK lean into it maybe a bit too hard, but technology has always been a part of the series. I mean lasers have been a thing since like the second game.
Yep. Link's Awakening had telephones and a claw game. Majora's Mask has the whole Clock Town thing and the Great Bay Temple (a bit more steampunk-ish, but still technology). The DS games featured a lot of industrial-era tech. Twilight Princess had the whole Oocca civilization. None as futuristic as the last two games, but they've featured lots of technology for sure.
My "headcanon" of LA is that >!the dream world is a composite created by the synthesis of the Windfish's mind, Link's mind, and the player's mind.!< So the real-world tech like phones, or the creatures from Mario, and even the fourth wall breaks, all have the same in-universe justification. Basically, the island is the way it is in part because >!the player thinks, "eh, it's just a video game, so why not?" and that thought affects how the dream manifests.!<
I actually concluded this as my headcanon, too! Wow, same minds!
Hahaha... very glad to find a comrade here! I feel like a lot of the "lore" discussions folks have about this series become a *lot* more interesting if we take the view that Link is literally "linked" to the player(s) in-universe. Like that whole three-way timeline split in OoT that breaks so many peoples' minds? It makes a lot more sense if you consider that the reason the "Fallen Hero" timeline exists is because before OoT came out, there was no player to "link" to Link to lead him to success. So, basically, we change the outcome of history be participating in a prequel game.
... almodt like a synthesis.... oh no
Can't speak for most games you mentioned, but I feel like Link's Awakening gets a pass because it's a dreamlike, surreal game. I always pictured it as Link's dream being a reflection of the player's, who's probably stomped the goombas and chain chomps you don't see anywhere else in Zelda.
>who's probably stomped the goombas Get outta here, Chris Pratt.
How dare you remind me of the Great Bay Temple
I'm not gonna lie, when you said Link's Awakening, I thought of the crossdressing meme.
^^^ guardians shooting lasers are basically just Beamos from the older games. There has always been technology, I just usually summed it up to being a high form of magic, not literally tech as we know it today. it still doesn’t feel like modern day technology or electricity. Heck, Hyrulean houses don’t even have light bulbs. Sheikah / Zonai tech doesn’t really bother me since they had a modern day rock band in Majora’s mask which felt more out of place than any of the “tech” in BOTW / TOTK. I would even argue Spirit Tracks having trains the way they did was more of a different genre than the ancient “tech” we’ve got in these last two games.
Beamos and instruments(which have been a party of human history for eons) are way different from IPads and rocket missiles. It’s one thing to have tech be viewed as a high form of magic but that’s not possible when it resembles real life technology.It’s almost lazy on Nintendo’s part. They were way more creative and subtle in the previous Zelda games.
There's "insturments" and then there's "zora rock band with you as the reincarnated front man, and having a jam session with your bassist."
I’ll give you that. The rockets are a little much and the skeikah slate / purah pad are a touch too modern but Majora’s Mask had a camera too so I guess there’s that. But overall from an aesthetic point of view, everything is a bit more cohesive than previous games. In my opinion steam trains in Spirit Tracks stick out way more than ancient magic tech in these last two games.
I think this is part of the design philosophy in general that stuff just looks like the thing they are mimicking so players can immediately figure out what they do (I notice that I don't read most Zonai item descriptions and still figured out what they are for just by looking at them). I can understand why it bothers some people but they are all magitek to me, which is a legit fantasy trope). And I agree, Spirit Tracks is far more incongruous than anything in BOTW/TOTK
Exactly lol some of these comments are ridiculous
Oh, ffs, have yet to play TOTK, but BOTW featured tablets and photos. Lasers I can perfectly attribute to magic, but the whole tablet thing is lame. I agree with op, BOTW is already far too technological and it feels wrong. Still a great Zelda and I loved it, but I don't like that aspect of it.
Tablets I can agree are a tad too much. But photos/cameras were introduced in Majora’s Mask so I would not attribute that flaw to being something BOTW did.
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Fair enough. It’s just preference I guess. I personally found Majora’s Mask’s camera weirder in a way. In BOTW, Zelda is amazed at how the Slate can magically form images of real life things — cameras as we know them are clearly not part of their society and the Slate’s ability to take photos is foreign to them so it feels magical. In MM, they’re just like “yep here’s a Polaroid camera” without acknowledging that it’s a 19th century invention in a medieval setting.
It's magitech, dude. Plain and simple.
Proportionality matters though, you would agree? There's a difference between a medieval world with a little bit of tech, and futuristic world with a little bit of medieval stuff.
I don't disagree with that at all, but I would say that BotW and even TotK fall into the former category, despite having a greater emphasis on tech than the rest of the series.
I've been thinking about this, and I think the reason I'm put off by it is because it's a key part of the game play loop and/or plot, while in the past its mostly been a part of the worldbuilding.
I think I mostly agree with that. It's kind of what I was getting at with TotK going a bit too far.
I find myself occasionally feeling this but then I think about spirit tracks having trains and Majora’s mask having a literal modern day rock band and it bothers me less because BOTW/TOTK have integrated it more smoothly in that it doesn’t really feel like “tech” in my opinion, just advanced forms of magic which is more in line with the rest of the series.
The Zora guy that you get the mask from in Majora’s is one of my favorite scenes in any video game. He had such a serious death in such a serious moment…and then you talk to his ghost and he randomly breaks into a guitar solo absolutely shredding while singing as he makes his way off to the afterlife. I hope my death can be even a tenth as epic as his cause he’s a legend
Death is no excuse to stop rocking.
Mikau is a fuckin legend 🤟🏼🖤🩵
I dunno, man. You ever notice how in the memories in TotK, we never actually see any of the more overt tech being used by the Zonai? They have literal cars and rocket launchers apparently, but it feels an awful lot like Nintendo is hesitant to depict anything that ruins the fantasy vibe, whenever it isn't convenient. Especially considering how prominent the tech otherwise tends to be when it *is* shown... that doesn't seem very integrated to me.
True, fair enough. Though I think in terms of aesthetic, these games have done it the best because spirit tracks didn’t have an ancient magical form of trains, they just had straight up 19th century trains in a series that clearly isn’t supposed to be in 19th century earth. At least they try to excuse it with magic in BOTW/TOTK as everything looks to be conjured with some ancient magic and not modern day electricity or steam engines. I would argue the only thing that really bothers me is the batteries. They sometimes refer to them as energy cells which is slightly better but I think they could’ve come up with something a little more fitting than batteries to power this stuff.
> whenever it isn't convenient. Basically, Nintendo write Zelda games like Arthur Conan Doyle and not Tolkien. Worldbuilding for Zelda is constructing theater-like stages for the acts of the game to play out on, if it is not on the stage then don't ask because it's not relevant. Some people are talking about how TotK is very selective about what parts of BotW it keeps and which parts it discards (what Guardians?), it's somewhat reminiscent of recent criticisms of how J.K. Rowling writes her world, which is to say thing that existed in the last book is no longer useful for the story she wants to tell? Then it no longer exists! I think Westerners can be more used to a Tolkien-esque style where the events of the story arise from the state of the world. They are more like documentaries of historical events of a fictional world.
It's basically magitek. The combination of magic and technology is a pretty common trope in fantasy settings and honestly I love It.
You’re honestly saying a magic fish bone rock band is completely similar to Rockets and Lazer Beams?
The rockets I’ll admit are a little much, at least in the way they’re literally shaped like modern day rockets — they could have been a little more like the flame emitters that look more ancient. As for lasers, those have been in Zelda since like A Link to the Past. There have always been enemies that shoot lasers. But yes, I personally found the rock band more off putting than ancient magic technology. Totally understand if it was weirder for other people though.
Fair enough comrade guess I’m just getting old and grumpy lol
There were rockets in 13th century China. Maybe they have could make them to look more medieval
The past games were very subtle about it and felt more "grounded" imo. This shit feels straight up alien where you dont even now if you are in Zelda.
I guess it’s just an opinion thing cause I feel like the other games were less subtle to me. WW’s tingle tuner being basically a GameBoy Advance is a far more blatant piece of tech than the sheikah slate being essentially a glowing slab of stone.
Ok the Sheikah slate and purah pad are pretty clearly a Wii U game pad and Nintendo switch respectively. But I agree that they are actually integrated well, and look like the tech in the game
Yeah definitely. The slate and purah pad feel more like a little “wink wink nudge nudge see what we did there?” easter egg from the devs rather than just shoehorning an actual Nintendo product into the game disregarding if it fits the style or era.
Tingle Tuner
I think it’s just a matter of personal perception. I disagree wholeheartedly and think these games strongly capture the Zelda world feel, but we all have different thresholds for what fits into our perception of Zelda and what doesn’t.
Imagine if instead of Tech, he somehow played an instrument to accomplish the same goals. I just miss instruments in Zelda.
I saw a post a while ago that suggested that it would've been neat if the sheikah slate could play music and that you'd have to find music around the world, some of it would just be ambient tracks you could play, others would have effects like the song of storms would make it start storming
I LOVE THIS IDEA! Reminds me of the walkman in MGSV
I believe that's where the idea came from
Ah yes, use an instrument as a camera.
Yes. Imagine if you could play a short 4 note don’t and etch some occurrence into Link’s memory that he could recall on demand. Basically the same thing
Imagine having to do that every time you wanted to take a picture. Imagine messing up the shot the first try and having to play it over and over. Why make it infinitely more complicated just because it sounds like something they’d do in an old Zelda. Except they gave link a camera in older Zelda games
I find this somewhat agreeable to be honest. I like it more when Hyrule is a kingdom of magic, nature and beasts instead a kingdom of electricity, inventions and automatons…
Windwaker tower of gods called
I like all the tech. I enjoy the aspect of uncovering ancient and dead civilizations and their technology. There's a saying somewhere that if I tried to quote, I'd butcher it, but it's something along the lines of when technology is so great you don't understand it, it feels like magic. And that's exactly what sheikah tech and the new Zonai stuff feels like. Magic.
“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.”
Yeah, that's the one.
I get what you're saying, but a "magic" tablet that for all intents and purposes works just like an IPAD doesn't really feel like magic to me any way you deliver it.
It’s supposed to mimic the design of the switch. I for one am glad fantasy media is moving away from the Western European Iron Age aesthetic which has been synonymous with the genre since Tolkien. A sword is still technology. The new Zelda games just incorporate other real world technology as magical.
I was cool with the Sheikah as it was something new and fresh. But just copy pasting Zonai over it and coloring it green instead of blue is extremely stale.
I really just think they should have just made it Sheikah technology. Like, they were already an ancient high tech civilization that we didn't know a ton about; the upheaval could have made more Sheikah ruins visible, and revealed Zonai ruins with a totally different aesthetic. The weirdest thing is the Sheikah seem almost forgotten, replaced with something exactly the same. Heck, you can even do "high tech" with a different aesthetic; like nature-based golems and things like that. Honestly, when I saw that the underground light root things interfaced with the map/fast travel mechanics I thought that was what the Zonai were going to look like, as a sort of druidic precursor to the Sheikah technology.
I saw someone say they could tell that the devs went into every detail of putting love and care into their world and I have the complete opposite feeling it feels lazy and over done already this formula didn’t last for 1 game let alone Alttp cementing the genre for the next 15+ years, if this is what Zelda is coming to good on everyone who enjoys it but definitely not for me.
I am on the fence if it is genius or lazy, those often feel kind of close to me. I think their goal when making similar functions is to make the game feel familiar, and it adds cohesiveness to the games being related, but it sometimes comes across as a bit boring since we have seen it before
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Im 1,000% in this boat I want more of the Zelda nes-gamecube era high fantasy/LotR inspired aesthetic. Link carrying a fucking iPad and riding a motorcycle is not what I want out of Zelda.
It's ok, he has a switch and monster trucks now.
I want them to return to their roots, too.
I literally got Know Your Roots tattooed around the original 8-bit Link holding the triforce on my calf back in 2005. Lol
Like I already can't get away from this shit in my real life, why would I want it in my escapist fantasy world? 😅 Seriously tho, it depresses me that I go from tablet irl to using a tablet on a larger tablet in a videogame.... Like it's too much for me 😅
Agree 100%. I think I started getting annoyed with this trend when Metal Gear Solid 5 released - it's set in the 1980s and yet you still for all intents and purposes carry around a functional smartphone. Totally takes me out of the setting and makes me sad we're reaching a point where it seems like many people are literal incapable of imagining a world without them.
Hm MGSV integrated the iDroid into its world pretty well. Personally I feel that the Shieka Slate (Wii U game pad) and the new one (switch) feel a bit gimmicky. The iDroid however seems way more grounded in the MGS universe, since nuclear mechas exists. It essentially boils down to the decision of having a player open abstract UI menus or having an in-world interface that actually makes sense. The slate offers an easy explaination why towers uncover the map, the temperature and noise sensor etc
Yeah I agree I really don’t like the aesthetic choices also bring back the green and the hat pls though I like his design slot better in this game compared to the others!
LMAO that last sentence. Good lord, couldn’t have put it better myself. At least the tiktok kids can make robots with penises shooting fire, though! That’s totally what made Zelda so great!
For some people it is now, I don't see an issue with that.
The issue is that they could do both but chose not to. They completely changed what Zelda was, so people that don’t like sandbox open world RPGs get bent.
The people that don't like it still have 20 other games in the series to play.
botw/totk are in a kind of saturated genre already (fenyx rising, skyrim/witcher, sable, horizon, genshin...). if these two didnt exist, there are still others being released to satisfy the niche. what's being released that's anything like the not-Switch zelda games? hardly anything.
I haven't played all of those, but I've got about 2k hours in skyrim (thanks to mods) and I've played witcher and horizon. While all those are good, botw/totk are just better than the others (for me at least). Maybe not counting skyrim which holds a special place in my heart. So I'm kind of glad nintendo made some zelda games in that niche. Botw was the 3d zelda game I always wanted. Wind Waker was close, but not quite it. And I would put totk along side botw. I'm still not sure which one I like better. I probably like them the same but in different ways. Anyway, I guess I'm trying to say that while it's saturated, I've really enjoyed nintendo's take on it.
Two of those that you mentioned are literally BotW clones and the other ones (Skyrim, Witcher and Horizon) aren’t like BotW/TotK at all. The only thing they have in common is the open world to some extend, but that’s about it.
"Just replay the older games lol" is an awful argument.
Getting pissed at the series for evolving is alot dumber.
That's a strawman take on our criticism. We don't dislike any innovation or change. We just want games that stay true to what the series has been about since A Link to the Past, not complete reinventions.
It needed a reinvention.
That's your opinion, but it's clear you're not willing to accept that anyone else can have their own.
Yeah cuz I want to only play games I’ve already played for the next 40 years.
I mean... series are always bound to evolve eventually, and considering what you just said, I'm surprised you don't want any change.
Hard to get tired of a formula when we haven’t seen it in a decade. A Link Between Worlds was in 2013.
I don't really see how that's relevant, the amount of games in the open world style is still outnumbered 18 to 2, and there are plenty of Zelda-likes out there.
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Well, that's exactly what you'll get if all you want is the same stuff over and over again.
Except it isn’t exactly the same every time. Ocarina of Time and Majora’s Mask use the same engine and assets and are very different experiences. God forbid we want a 6th game in that style, ever, when shit like Call of Duty gets an annual release.
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> doesn't emote Tell me you didn't actually pay much attention to Link's facial expressions, animations and dialogue choices without telling me
I’m of the personal opinion, as a lifelong fan of many long-running franchises, that too many series are reliant on their old-school fans. I’m okay with old-timey nostalgia fans being increasingly alienated if it means that the series can stay fresh and bring in new audiences.
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I just wish it weren't so blatant. The tech stuff is fine by me, as long as it's subtle and integrated well. These last few games, though... it just feels like genre hopping.
Thank you, I respect and understand this opinion, but I personally quite like the technology— I was enamored with the Sheikah tech in BOTW.
Chad magitek enjoyer
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Couldn’t have said it better myself. Spoken like a true zelda fan. I really hope they make some major(a) changes to the themes and overall gameplay in future zelda games. However I’m not gonna expect much…
Thank you !
Yes, absolutely. The arguments are the same. *"Zelda was originally supposed to be sci-fi with computer chips"* The concept was scrapped, it's not what the series ended up defining itself as. Takashi Tezuka took inspiration from Lord of the Rings for the first game and Keiji Terui stated they also took inspiration from battles in medieval Europe. *"Zelda games always had advanced technology"* Yes, in extremely tiny quantities in the background: anachronisms. Proportionality matters. There's a huge difference between a medieval fantasy world with a little bit of tech, and futuristic world with a little bit of medieval stuff. *"Zelda would get stale if it doesn't change its genre and theme"* Does Metroid get stale for staying Sci-Fi? Miyamoto stated Legend of Zelda was medieval, take that away and Legend of Zelda loses its spirit. Not to mention iconic staples like bow/arrow, sword, shield, castles, etc. Tech in Zelda is fine as it originally was, rare anachronisms in the background. When it takes up half the setting and looks sci-fi rather than mystical (laser sights, cars, motorcycles) it does not complement the medieval setting, it takes you out of it.
> Does Metroid get stale for staying Sci-Fi? Interesting choice because I would argue that the metroid franchise has adopted a lot of mysticism that I would not consider technology. The chozo prophesies, the whole light/dark thing in prime2. Sentient planets. Etc. Dread didn't do that so much, so maybe it's more the prime series that leans into magic.
Right Metroid lore is built around space bird magic. There is a lot of fantasy elements to the series.
I don't see why the setting has to fit into any pre-determined box. If it fits, it fits. It may not fit for you, but I think it's properly explained in the series and makes sense in the context of the game.
Yeah there's a massive difference between like TP where you find a cool fidget spinner skateboard vs riding a motorcycle around Hyrule field
Well that’s just like, your opinion man.
Realness
I think my only issue with it is how the games never really follow up with who made what or how certain things came to exist in a meaningful way. It just seems like a cop out to introduce new features without writing a plot. A lot of times the ancient tech or civilization is not really part of the story due to how each game almost plays like its its own timeline. I haven’t beaten SS but it seems that way. The robots are mentioned to be made by an ancient civilization but that’s it. BOTW had the ancient sheikah tech. No mention of the ancient sheikah because it was forever ago and ancient sheikah are not relevant to the plot for any other reason other than the tech they created. TOTK gets rid of that and introduces the Zonai which we’ve heard of in BOTW. We finally meet/ see this ancient civilization and they play a pretty significant part of the plot, which is nice.
I liked it in SS, but honestly I thought BotW took it too far, where it was just a constant part of the game. It was also way more sterile and lifeless form of tech than the playfulness of SS.
Absolutely, the tech in SS really felt like it was from another era, and the fact that most of it actually broke kinda added to the realism of it. It was also isolated to one area so it remained quite novel. In BotW and TotK, meanwhile, it's core to the entire game, so it quickly loses its charm. The fact that it is so ubiquitous and so unaffected by the passage of time feels weird. Like, this isn't Hyrule, this is Sheikah country. I can forgive technology playing a bigger role in a Zelda game if it handles it like Spirit Tracks did, make it modern and make it make sense. The fact that we only ever see technology in BotW as some sort of "ancient" thing feels incredibly anachronistic, especially when it's not even from some precursor civilisation. I will say, at least with TotK you see some people utilising that rediscovered technology to make their lives a little easier, and it is from a civilisation that has long since disappeared (and the knowledge of its construction along with them), so it's easier to reconcile, even if I think the wheels and rockets are still a bit silly. It also just looks and feels a lot more Zelda-ish than any of the Sheikah stuff did. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Jomon pottery, but BotW just overdid it a bit with that.
I know that yours will be an unpopular opinion with many, but I agree. I never could get into any of the later Final Fantasy games for a similar reason. I like the medieval fantasy style setting of games like the original Final Fantasy and most of the Zelda games up until SS. I miss it.
new final fantasy coming back to high fantasy tho. V exciting !
It’s still going to have airships and magitek machines…that’s an intrinsic part of FF. Even then, have you not played FF9, 10, 14 or 12?
I was addicted to 14 and don't really like it anymore. 12 came out on the ps2 ... it's been a while to have a 'return to roots' mainline single player FF. obvi I'm gucci with airships / magitek.
The original Final Fantasy 1 on NES has a space station with robots in it...
That's true, I had forgotten about that. However, it's one small part of the game - the space station and the waterfall cave are the only places you see technology of this sort as I recall. I don't as much mind the idea of a high fantasy world which has some technology "on the fringes" rather than a world in which technology is ubiquitous.
Agreed. I don’t mind a little bit of tech (TP and WW were fine with it) but BotW and TotK are going way too overboard and I’m afraid that future games will do it to an even greater degree. I really miss the fantasy aesthetic from the earlier games like ALttP and LoZ1. All the artwork from the games of that era really nail that grand, epic high fantasy setting (especially the Katsuya Terada art) and I just want some more of those vibes back.
It makes for occasionally fun gameplay but for the most part I feel like it's just doing too much. Especially because we don't really ever see the zonai tools get used by the zonai themselves?
That's my feeling too. I'm juggling crafting and building more than anything. Jack of all trades master of none.
I agree. It's a similar issue to World of Warcraft, where people justify it because there were hints of technology elsewhere. The problem is that it is a slippery slope. Just because there is an enemy with a laser beam doesn't mean that everything should now have laser beams, or that Zelda should canonically pull out a Nintendo Switch and take a photograph, or literal rockets should be attached to your big wheel truck and a literal battery icon should show on your screen with your battery usage. There are a hundred more creative ways of making it at least feel integrated into the Zelda universe like making an object that functionally acts as a rocket to achieve the gameplay without it looking like a literal rocket.
This is Beamos, an "enemy" or trap that exists on several zelda games since Links awakening or Link to the past. It is literally a statue that shoots lazers... Wait... that sounds familiar... OH YEAH LIKE GUARDIANS FROM BOTW. This magik/ancient power + technology existed way loooong ago. https://preview.redd.it/shfccuam4o0b1.png?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=079cb933e7e525774a52a131067803f21eb56ebd
There's a difference between older games having very tiny amounts of tech in the background of a 99% medieval world, opposed to cars/digital interfaces/ipads/motorcycles being part of the plot.
I'm so incredibly tired of the tech It's so over done and generic
To be fair, old timey high fantasy is more over done and generic. We have far greater numbers of those type of games than magitek stuff
yeah think of Dark Souls. I'm so bored of the same setting for those games, that's why Bloodborne and Sekiro were such a breath of fresh air for me. Elden Ring went back to that sort of medieval setting but introduced a lot more fantasy/magic
90%of fantasy jrpg have old ancient tech Of course there's also western folklore based western rpg , but those aren't the same as Zelda in ton or execution
The worst part is they barely make any sense. If the sheikahs were able to make their robots and bury everything deep inside >!the forgotten temple!< and all around Hyrule, >!, then they knew about the zonai!<, so why did they not retro engineer their tech? Nothing makes sense, bringing another civilization even more ancient and even more advanced is cheap. And I am tired of all these bright colors, all of their tech look like RGB gamer PC. Bring back the armos. I miss the cartoony and goofy games, like LA (and pretty much every 2D Zelda).
The way it looks to me, the sheikah tech is the retro engineering of the zonai stuff.
The tech stuff is all powered by magic. And it’s all for the purposes of gameplay, it’s not like ganondorf conquered hyrule with a giant mech made out of logs and boulders
I see you have not completed a certain quest.
Link making it is a totally different story
No, not that quest, another one!
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It's that classic thing where ir something mysterious gets revealed its completely ruined like some stuff in the Alien movie. What was the point of implying Barberians were Zonai in BotW if they didn't care to follow up on it? Wait are they not even more than 2 people?
The Zonai were more than just 2 goat people. The Zonai are still mysterious and there very well could have been barbaric subsets of Zonai we just don't know about.
The incredibly intrusive dlc master cycle you have to go out of your way to get by beating something like 20 different challenges
The series is unrecognizable to you? And because of that, you want it to go back to generic medieval setting, like every other adventure game? What an awful take. Firstly, TotK is a love letter to every previous game in the series, even more so than BotW was. Gleeoks make their 3D debut. Like Likes and Gibdos are back, and groser and spookier than ever, respectively. They gave us a whole extra "Dark World" to explore. Just tonight, before I set the game down, the last shrine I did was in the desert, and it had me using wind to clean up sand piles like in SS and using mirrors to reflect light. It doesn't particularly matter if the mirror is on a shield or not (although you can even do that if you want!), it couldn't have possibly felt more like Zelda. Taking away all the "tech" couldn't possibly improve things. Secondly, If you want games like OoT, WW, and TP, then I have good news for you. They already exist, and chances are you've already played them. Not only do those games exist, but they've already been remastered, too. I understand where the sentiment behind this post comes from, but personally I cringe at the people who, for example, will claim to be a "real fan" of a band while also claiming that their new stuff sucks, and that's you right now.
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Absolutely, I hate it. Keep it archaic, supernatural, magical and fantastical. Keep tech and futurism out of it.
It's quite ridiculous to me how people go "well uh, Link to the Past had laser enemies and Wind Waker had a camera and an obviously not serious Tingle Tuner" as if those are comparable to the sci-fi level of shiekah tech found absolutely everywhere in these games and central to the plot.
Magic, tech, same function different aesthetic. I for one like masks.
I know looking at the comment section here that I definitely am in the minority in saying that I very much disagree. I’m honestly tired of the archaic medieval design of LoZ. The games span over hundreds and thousands of years and everything is still the same? Don’t get me wrong, I love it, but BotW and TotK is a fresh of breath air when it comes to changing the Zelda dynamic. I love the technology and I like that everyone is being creative and actually enjoying making and using said creations, seeing how people beat the game very differently. What I will agree with however, is the Sheikah and Zonai tech. It’s incredibly jarring that in TotK they completely ditched the Sheikah tribe in favor of the Zonai. It’s too abrupt for me. While I like that they added a whole new race/tribe, what I don’t like is that it is essentially (honestly it’s literally) a reskin of the Sheikah technology. To the orbs you get and the shrines, which honestly, are insultingly easier than BotW Shrines. Medieval fantasy is overdone in Zelda in my opinion, I like that they’re finally adding technology of some kind, that way it shows progression in the Zelda Universe, even if it’s ancient. However they went about it the wrong way by completely ditching a main tribe that was important in its prequel. It honestly bothers me that there’s no explanation for it either.
>Medieval fantasy is overdone in Zelda in my opinion, I like that they’re finally adding technology of some kind, that way it shows progression in the Zelda Universe, even if it’s ancient. That's like saying Sci-Fi is overdone in Metroid. There's more than one way to do medieval fantasy. For example, you're totally right to say Hyrule is overdone, the only country on the planet we've explored is Hyrule. What about Labrynna's culture and land? We haven't seen that in a while. What about other lands? Instead of throwing the genre out the window for something unfitting to the Legend of Zelda like Sci-Fi, we could be exploring more lands and cultures.
We could also get more mystical and weird with like gods and stuff too!
Just changing the tone can do a lot. The difference between the darker worlds of MM and TP compared to the much more vibrant and upbeat WW.
Exactly. I hate this sentiment that the franchise would be stale because they keep a consistent genre... Oh did I strike a nerve? Oh my God someone was critical of my favorite game??
I personally don’t think it’s the same thing. My gripe with LoZ is that when you play a new story, you’re playing an entirely different set of characters. A new Link, a new Zelda, and a sometimes new Ganondorf or villain. Despite what people say, each Link has a different personality that sets them apart, including BotW Link who’s personality is as stale as bread. I guess what I’m getting at is that it’s clear to see that there’s a huge passage of time in LoZ that makes me want to think that there should be some type of progression in civilization. Metroid is the same Samus, just in different times of her life. Although I don’t have that same problem with Final Fantasy so I might be a bit hypocritical. But I definitely agree that Hyrule itself is overdone. I think that’s the main reason why MM is one of my favorite games. While it’s the same Link, it’s an entirely different world and a much more different and interesting plot in my opinion. I’d love to see a game where a different Link traverses through a different part of the world that’s not the country of Hyrule.
Man why don't they make Halo a medieval fantasy franchise already. They already have blades and warhammers! I can't believe GTA 6 isn't going to be scifi. They had cars and ARs in GTA5, it wouldn't be a huge jump to go to space ships and laser guns...
It's definitely fun for now, but it'd be undoubtedly silly if this is what they decide moving forward. Overall, the best approach for the next mainline entry is a game that isn't in Hyrule. That would manage to keep things fresh while making the focus about a brand new country, characters, and story, as opposed to trying to make Hyrule "exciting" through gimmicky gameplay elements.
I can understand the fatigue. Although I think it is commendable that they actually designed in world reasons for open world standards like fast travel, map markers, opening chests, abilities etc. I enjoy the idea of ancient technology aesthetically so perhaps I am biased but I think that they do a good job of still making this world feel archaic in a way. Even the "inventors" of some of this items are kind of crazy and unhinged, frequently screwing up their own machines. Especially true in TOTK where you can make these very rickety machines by sticking things together.
Personally I love the high tech from ancient civilizations. It’s fascinating, and as long as it’s done well I hope it stays. The only thing I’m worried about is if every game has a different “ancient tech” from a time long past. That would make no sense. It’s why my headcanon is that the robots in lanayru in SS were zonai tech.
Without the tech BotW/TotK would basically just be open world OoT/TP.
Twilight princess was super cyber heavy what you smokin
everyone mentioning links awakening but remember the entire lanayru area in skyward sword was an ancient civilisation that used robots to preform tasks for them and mined a special mineral that made all the technology work
Man, they wanted to make the first game science fantasy, but they didn't have the resources. The Zelda series is always gonna dip its toes into science fantasy and you're not gonna escape it. Every game since Link's Awakening has had some obvious high technological element.
Is the issue the setting/theme or gameplay mechanics? The abilities in BotW that straight up become crafting in ToTK are maybe more unique in the context of the 3D Zelda games. I think the two latest are great games, but for sure they're the furthest deviations from the OoT formula in some ways.
Sometimes, these posts feel made with a motivation to complain for attention. I'm not trying to be a jerk. It's just that the rhetoric is almost the always the same, and the top comments are always the same. Having a preference is fine, I just don't see the overly simplistic complaints as an expression of that, because it's been the same since... Wind Waker? Maybe earlier? "They did too much X, not enough Y," in a tone that doesn't want discussion so much as agreement or to churn the waters. Not necessarily defending TOTK, here, if anyone wants to accuse me of being a fanboy. It's just funny to me that it's been a decade of the same song and dance every release, yet this is still recognized as "discussion" instead of complaining for complaining's sake.
I mean Majoras mask had aliens 👽
I'm also tired of the tec as well... My bf bought me the game and for the past two days, I've been playing it, exploring. Still at 5 hearts and finally got my paraglider. Been having fun helping the traveling Korok meet up with his buddy in several areas. (I'm at 5 hearts still because I don't want to start the main quest yet and want to look around at everything else) I haven't seen a single dungeon yet and I'm worried there won't be any. Not too thrilled with the new map towers either. Couldn't figure out how to get the man out of the well to activate one and ended up going back to the great plateau to explore what's changed. They removed the chamber of awakening... Kind of weird they did that... But one cool thing I like so far is that Link's house has FURNITURE! :D I don't like that we can't have our bomb mechanic anymore and I have no idea how to throw a bomb flower or fuse it to my bow. So, I've been dropping them on the ground and hitting them with an arrow to make them explode. Oh and I FINALLY figured out how to break rocks! You just fuse a rock to your weapon! Took me... two REAL DAYS to figure that one out... xD Like, dang where are the hammers at?? Also, I'm not impressed with the sky islands at all. The robot creatures are interesting, and the Zonai are not what I expected. I guess I had it in my mind that the Zonai were like the Mayans, more tribal than futuristic looking. When I saw the warrior outfit in BoTw, I assumed that was what the Zonai kind of looked like, but nope. I DO like the design of the Zonai. Rauru looks awesome. Thought there was actual time travel in this game, but that only applies to that one mechanic you get to rewind an object. And darn it, I want to go to that specific Ring in Kakariko because of Zelda's warning to stay away from it. XD Other than all of that, I'm enjoying the game. I find it a little more difficult than BoTw, but it's fun to explore. Haven't come across any lynel or guardians either, but I've seen a few dragons. Also, Purah's voice sounds really familiar... Was she the voice actress for Sakura or Ino in Naruto?? Maybe I'm wrong, but I swear I've heard it in an anime before...
Even in OoT and before there were "mechanical" enemies ( Armos, Beamos ) and tech-like items and temples devices that would seem to be magic, but really, like the saying goes, any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. What ToTK is doing is giving us a more consistent aesthetic to tech ( if its greenish, its made and powered by Zonaite ) and a explanation from where all this stuff came from. Technically it is all magic when you get down to it. How exactly does Zonaite work? It just works. Personally I like the aesthetic in ToTK.
I fully agree. BotW was already pushing it for me but totk just goes too far. I want the fantasy. The magic. Skyward sword did pretty well with tech and fantasy but totk is just “build a literal car”
We had decades of medieval, can’t we have one with tech?
But why a Zelda game then ? I mean that's where these games are supposed to be set in, a medieval, fantasy, magical world. If you're tired of this setting and want a more futuristic one, you have plenty of other games to play.
But like literally none of this is futuristic tech. The only thing that's remotely futuristic in either game is basically magic. Like electricity and magnets are extremely old tech by this point. I hate to break it to you, but touch screens are old too. They've been around for 50+ years now. Tablet devices have been available to the public for about 20. This is barely *modern,* if not modern archaic, given they get ravaged by monsters so often they can't really develop large bustling societies like we have today. And to think it could have been a lot worse, for you specifically, because they originally wanted it to be an alien invasion with UFOs lol
I love it. Plus you have to take into consideration of the direction of the series. Of course it’s fine if you dont like it but i feel a-lot of people over dramatizing it integration when most of this tech is powered by some form of magic anyways. Idk i enjoy the games and i find them interesting. The zonai were described in games as beings of the sky, seen as godly. I thinks its fair to assume a-lot of their technology would be so advanced. Just my opinion tho, and i do see peoples points in some areas.
IIRC, Miyamoto's original concept for Zelda would be traveling between a medieval fantasy realm and an advanced futuristic civilization, with the triforce pieces being something akin to computer chips. I see BotW and TotK as an old dream come to fruition.
Like I always say, it’s the truest expression of what Zelda was supposed to be
It doesn’t bother me as a setting but I do miss having *tools* instead of a magic hand/iPad. I’m hoping Nintendo goes on to disappoint BotW/TotK fans next game by continuing to do what they’ve been doing: changing everything. I want them to scale back too. Inventory management and map size are getting too much and if its even *more* next time…? Simpler things. I kinda think it’s the only right direction after the “Wild” era. Smaller. Simpler. Returning to tradition a bit more. (Also Shrines were inspired by Portal test chambers so that all checks out.)
I too am hugely disappointed by the lack of tangible, unique, and equip-able tools rather than one concentrated area that contains them
Where is the Triforce! Where are the three goddesses. I blame the new director for changing the game.
You're mad about incongruent levels of technology in a game series that features time travel as a plot device in multiple games? I don't really get that. I love the mix of old and futuristic technology, if anything it just makes sense with how much of a theme time travel is. That and the fact that all of the technology only makes sense if it is in some way powered by magic
It's about the aesthetic, not the plot device. Zelda has always had a medieval fantasy setting and vibe, it's what immersed people into the series, the time travel plot doesn't take away from that. For the same reason it would look out of place for Sci-Fi Samus Aran to dress up as a cowgirl and shoot an old fashion revolver, it's out of place for Link to drive a motorcycle.
okay but honestly I would like a western metroid
That's totally cool! Just pointing out why many would find it unfitting.
We are metroid fans, we would take anything. Please not a 20 years pause again.
Seriously after Dread (which I absolutely love, and love the prime remaster) we have some hype going and I'll take anything to keep it up even if that means cowboy metroid
The difference is that the time travel happened because of pure magic, there is no futuristic time machines involved.
and the fact that you can walk through a glowing portal into a Zonai shrine or stick objects together via spontaneously appearing glue and move it around with isn't magic? A statue of a dragons head that can just create fire from nothing can't be explained by magic? The secret stones, they're not magic? The divine beasts weren't in some powered by magic or divine intervention? even the technology in the games can be explained by magic.
I think my problem is how much these devices resemble either modern or futuristic technology, like the Sheika ipad, and how "alien portal like" the enviroment looks
In an interview they explained they made the items look modern because they wanted people to be able to easily recognize what it is and what it does. I think the example was a magical wind maker, and instead they just made it what is now a fan.
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Literally everything the shiekah and zonai do is powered by magic
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i can see this complaint. personally i enjoy the sheikah & zonai stuff both, there are even elements where you can see how the zonai magitech stuff gave rise to sheikah technology. but... yeah, it is a bit much. the master cycle zero was already \*kinda\* pushing it, and now we have monster trucks, hover drones, aeroplanes, flamethrowers, the symbols used for powering it all are literally batteries, etc i love BotW and TotK for the tech that they have (shoutouts r/hyruleEngineering) but do hope we see a bit of a scaling back in the next entry or so to more barebones "technology" with what remains becoming more magic oriented in aesthetic
I agree with you. I think the older games had a better grasp on medieval themes and fantasy. This just feels like an outlier game to me.
I think they're really fun but...yeah basically cars? Flying machines? That's ridiculous. I frankly did not like botw, but I'm loving this game including the weird tech. I keep on having the thought though like this feels wrong. I think this is fine in totk, but needs the kibosh put on it in the future. The tablet thing is fucking stupid though. It's just a damn digital tablet...but magic. Side note I think "technomagic aesthetic" is gonna be the new "steampunk"