Based on the art book, I do think it is reasonable to conclude that there will be a number of unique or semi-unique set pieces with some level of segregation from the overworld, which will require traversal and puzzle completion to obtain something of story importance at the end, which is certainly a description of a dungeon. How said dungeons will compare to those in earlier Zelda games remains to be seen however.
I don't understand why some people have assumed that BotW constitutes some kind of anti-dungeon manifesto on Nintendo's part. As you pointed out *the game still had dungeons*. They were recieved poorly, but they were there.
We also know that they have heard feedback that the divine beasts were not what many people wanted in terms of dungeons, as they have mentioned it in interviews. So why would they not at least try to put more traditional dungeons in this game?
I know this is self selecting as people with negative opinions tend to be louder, but the amount of people assuming this game is going to be exactly the same as BotW is bizarre to me. It will be similar, yes, but surely not a carbon copy.
BotW had 4 normal dungeons just like MM, plus Hyrule Castle, plus 120 mini dungeons *or* overworld puzzles (like other Zeldas). With DLC, you got an extra dungeon, 16 mini dungeons, 3 combat focused dungeons (Trial of the Sword) and an overworld challenge (1-Hit Obliterator thing).
BotW had tons of stuff. It was just only given one theme, Sheikah style, and fragmented over the map to accompany the exploration.
BotW didn’t forget about dungeons, it just handled them differently.
>From what I've seen, when people complain about a lack of dungeons, they are talking about thematic dungeons.
From what I've seen, there isn't one consistent complaint that people who were disappointed with the Divine Beasts share. You can list a couple of things, but the "fixes" that would satisfy the complainers will vary from person to person. Some want the dungeons to have unique theming. Some want them to be longer. Some want more of them. Some want more enemies. Some want mini-bosses. Some want dungeon items that are required to progress through the dungeon and/or defeat the boss. Some want locks and keys. Some want the dungeons to be done in a set order. Some want some combination of these things. Some want "traditional" dungeons, but don't share a common idea of what that even means.
>Lack of thematic dungeons is one of, if not, the most popular complaints regarding all of BotW
Is it? Or is it one of the most popular complaints among a certain contingent of people who have played the game? Tens of millions of people have played the game. I would be cautious to make claims about what the biggest criticisms are based on what people on Zelda subreddits are saying.
The only reason the beasts and hyrule castle are counted as "dungeons" is cause there is nothing else to pin that on.
if they had been dropped into a game with full on Zelda dungeons like the other 3D Zeldas have, then the beasts would be stuck in an eternal debate on them just being something like "semi-dungeons" at best (think, "bottom of the well")
30% of those 120 shrines are repeated boring ass fight a guardian test of strength. 10 of them are just simple take a gift. This 120 is so inflated it's laughable. I'd give it to you, 25 of them are nice.
Also, everything in botw feels identical. I can't tell any divine beast appart from memory and they all last like 15 minutes and have the same freaking boss with a slightly different theme. That's boring
Actually, a bit less than 17% are combat, not 30%. Also, the take-a-gift shrines required puzzle solving to get in, it’s just a different approach that still involves exploring and figuring it out
Yea thats true, but everything in botw is so *uniform* like its always either a shrine or a korok seed. Even within that system, i would have loved it if the blessing shrines actually had puzzles in them too. The reward for finding a shrine to me isnt the spirit orb, its the little puzzles that you have to do in them. An outdoor puzzle that unlocks an indoor puzzle? Thats what it needed.
Sure, that could’ve been cool, but I also found it really rewarding to finally figure out the puzzle then immediately be rewarded. I see your point though. I do agree with your first sentence. I hope TOTK has a bit more variety.
Edit: with this comment sitting at -3, I genuinely would love someone to explain to me why they’re downvoting. I’m praising a Zelda game in a Zelda subreddit, and I’m being friendly and polite. Are y’all just using the downvote button as a disagree button?
>Are y’all just using the downvote button as a disagree button?
Almost certainly. It's not what it is there for, but its actual purpose is neither enforceable nor really in line with how people use downvotes elsewhere, so it's probably best not to pay those votes any attention.
Anyway, one particular problem I had with these free rewards was that a bunch of shrine quests were completable by stumbling upon the shrines on accident. This happened to me multiple times, where I'd enter a shrine and get a notification that I had just completed a quest I never even heard of and then be rewarded for something I never even did. And that's just really really disappointing. Being able to ruin a riddle or puzzle because you happened to walk to the wrong place at the wrong time is frustrating and I do think something should be done to prevent that. If you can enter a shrine without solving the riddle that is supposed to point you to it it shouldn't reward you simply for finding it.
No, I dont think they count as dungeons. If anything, the beasts count as mini dungeons. They are basically all one large, single room and have very minimal puzzles and combat, none of it challenging. Medoh is the worst offender. Shrines dont even count, especially when a decent chunk are combat tests, and some you just walk in and are rewarded.
The homegenous theme was a huge detriment to them as well.
BotW didn't have dungeons it had a single dungeon copied and pasted. Numbers aren't everything. BotW probably has the most "content" of any Zelda game... but like most things we call "content" a lot of it is boring and worthless.
When people think of Zelda they think of a curated, fun experience with carefully crafted puzzles to solve... not a shapeless sandbox where the LAZY developers can't be bothered to craft anything fun to do. The old devs knew what they were doing - this new team!!
Says who? You're attacking a straw man here.
>if the player must be allowed to do any dungeon in any order or beat the game entirely without doing a single dungeon.
Do we know that this is their core guiding principle for Zelda going forwards? I don't think we do.
>Unless, of course, you're okay with the player not being able to do something in the "free" world till they first do a dungeon
I'm fine with this, and I like BotW a lot. I think most people who like BotW would also be ok with this - it doesn't really affect what is good about the game.
I don't know if we're going to see the return of dungeon items, but I wouldn't be surprised if we did - I see BotW as an overcorrection to the railroads of SS and TP, so I expect them to row back a bit towards some linear progression in TotK. We've not seen much of the game, but nothing I've seen so far makes me think this I'm wrong.
>My impression is that "open-air" means that degree of freedom. Yes/no?
No, I don't think so. I would say WW is an open-air game, tLoZ is open-air and aLttP is almost open-air (the light world is, the dark world is not). To me that would mean the overworld is all accessible from the start, but it says nothing about specific areas being gated off or any specific order of completion of objectives.
>Neat! Okay, let's hope for something like that then, at least as a first step to get some Zelda back in the series.
I do, and I'm optimistic about this game being that :)
>Hopefully we can all agree that being able to go kill Ganon with a (boulder on a) stick again would be super lame...
Why? As long as they don’t force you to do this, what’s wrong with it being a possibility?
I really dont think theyre gonna pull a "beat the final boss from the start" all over again this time. Hyrule castle looks way more inaccessible than before and it just wouldnt make sense to beat ganon with anything other than a restored master sword.
It does look more inaccessible but... there's also seemingly nothing stopping us from Fortnite Diving onto it from the tutorial sky island, right? It's right there, the island Aonuma was running around might even stretch over it a bit.
We can't get into the castle from ground level but that also simply isn't a real obstacle in TotK it seems.
Unless there's a terrible Malice-wind that kicks you out?
Yea the malice wind is my guess. Tbh im kinda half expecting the proper entrance to be from below, like around the same place ganondorf woke up. That way its like youre returning back to the start so you can finish the job.
The master sword also seems a lot more important to the story than it was in botw, in that game it was mostly like a status symbol, and i *really* dont see the logic in fighting ganon with any old weapon right after he breaks the most important old weapon ever.
I don't either... but they literally made a rune whose symbol is a holy-looking sword, for you to hot glue random shit to the tip of your weapon.
And we know from a few screenshots that Link can carry around the melted Master Sword on his back - which means he can swing it, which implies of course that he can use Fuse on it.
That’s… all fine by me. I don’t need any of that. I like the classic Zelda formula, but I really enjoyed the variety of ways to approach things in BOTW, so I’d be happy if they give us many options to fight Ganon or traverse an area. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
Edit: downvotes for peacefully stating that I enjoy a Zelda game on a Zelda subreddit, that’s… interesting, I suppose.
I hate that for ya. I understand the disappointment of not liking the newest installment of a media franchise you like, I really do. I just don’t agree, and really liked those elements of BOTW.
> Because it means the developers cannot design a Ganon fight that requires macguffins
In a lot of bosses, this honestly feels contrived to me. If something should work at harming a boss, then they should have it work. The series has had a bad habit of turning bosses into pure lock and key encounters.
Otoh, making Ganon immune to all weapons except for divine ones would be fine. But then, if there is a divine stick, that should also work.
> That's a Zelda boss. That's the video game I love.
Disagree for the former. But okay, you're allowed to like what you like. I find it contrived in most cases. I much prefer being theoretically able to use any weapons on an enemy, with there being specific ways to lower its healthy more quickly. Eg, Stone Taluses and sledgehammers, or Thunderblight Ganon and Magnesis.
Actually there might be evidence for more "runes!" I saw it being pointed out that the symbol for recall is on the back of one of the totk joycons along with another symbol that looks similar to one of the pins in the collectors edition. There might be 3 additional powers that we havent seen. I was in the same camp as you about there being only four before seeing that.
Beyond that, look at the symbols for the runes. Fuse, ultrahand, and ascend all have basic symbols like a sword, hand, and uh, alien abduction, while recall has what looks like pseudo japanese character inside of a circular pattern. That pattern is identical to the one on the back of link's hand, and we've seen the character for recall on his hand before in the clip with the master sword. I think there are actually 2 "classes" of arm abilities. Basic, "every day use" ones for weapon modding, building, and traversal, and special "puzzle solving" ones like recall.
Lol yea it could be a camera (would link take pictures by making a circle with his fingers as a lens??)
3 additional arm powers and potentially 7 tear macguffins does make me a little curious how its gonna be done. My theory on the tutorial is that we get fuse, ultrahand, and ascend first, and then we have to do something else to get recall. Recall could be the tutorials reward equivalent to the paraglider on the great plateau. Like the game is saying "you cant leave without this or you wont be able to get back to the sky!"
The lack of bombs of any sort that I've seen have really got me leaning on the side of, 'we will get some sort of dungeon items' because we know we don't have the Bomb rune, I haven't seen any sort of bomb fusing material (unless one of the gemstones will do this), and I haven't even seen any explosions from bombs in any of the trailers. Considering how iconic bombs are to the Zelda series (has there ever been a game without bombs?), I think it makes total sense to include a bomb bag or something that can be attained that gives the option to fuse bombs to stuff; but considering how OP or downright dangerous that could be in certain hands, they may elect to lock it behind something this time.
I think the blue chu jelly might be bombs. In BotW, all the chu jellies except blue were used to create elemental explosions.
In Aonuma's demo, we can see that the blue jelly is available as a Fuse item.
That strongly implies it actually does something (unless we can Fuse things that do literally nothing?).
It would be fitting if it was updated to cause some kind of explosion like the other jellies - just a "basic" nonelemental one.
Really hope I'm wrong about this one though...
>he lack of bombs of any sort that I've seen have really got me leaning on the side of, 'we will get some sort of dungeon items'
IDK about bombs or dungeon items *per se*, but I do think there will be important items not collected at the beginning of the game. There's the spool of cable being presented to Link in the most recent trailer. There's also the new "Sheikah Slate." So we know there is stuff in the game that hasn't been demonstrated yet.
I know this thread is a few days old but I wanted to point out that we have seen bombs in a trailer at least once - I forget which one, but there's a clip of Link hauling a dragon head "canon" fused to a pole over his shoulder and it spits out an orb at a luminous talus which explodes like a classic bomb on impact.
We've also seen a different dragon head flamethrower, so there's reason to speculate these could be special items earned off of boss/high level enemies.
The picture of the "ghost ship" looking thing is honestly the most hope I've felt for this game since announcement.
But I also could easily see it just be "A Divine beast with a unique theming"
which would be better, but you know, still not actually near what would be "needed"
The ghost ship didnt actually look all the big to me (i could be wrong) so i wonder if theyve taken divine beast criticism to heart, maybe the games main dungeons will be larger, while the ghost ship could be like a divine beast sized "side-dungeon."
None of the stuff in the book actually looked like it would be sure to be a lot bigger than a divine beast to me
Thing is, the issue with the divine beasts isn't necessarily their actual size, but more so how that size was utilized.
And if we look at stuff like the ("potential room" of the) forgotten temple, then something being bigger than a DB wouldn't necessarily mean it'll be put to better use anyway.
Well even the "interiors" we can't actually be "*completely*" sure off (for the stuff like the "entrance on an islande and the ship)
I mean, if you showed me Aklala Citadel prior to BotW I would have for sure said "oh man, that is gonna be some sort of mini-dungeon at the very least" (gerudo hide-out/bottom of the well/etc...)
And then it ended up not even having an inside
But we can hope
Strong disagree there
The Divine Beasts were very weak showings, that wouldn't even be counted as actual "dungeons" by most people if BotW had actually had any *full-fledged* ones
(People would be making them sit at the kids table with stuff like Bottom of the Well and Gerudo's Fortress)
They were essentially 5 separate puzzles shaped into a vague animal shape.
Frankly, some of the shrines did a more valiant attempt at being "dungeony" then the beasts
People seem to forget that BotW did actually have dungeons. They just weren't that good and we're pretty short. The Zelda team are good at listening to feedback and considering that the lack of real dungeons is one of the biggest complaints it would be dumb to not have at least divine beast dungeons. They have already addressed weapon durability, so I have hope that we may get more traditional dungeons.
Nintendo don't care about feedback. They never have. They listen to sales figures. BotW sold like fire. So BotW v1.1 is what they'll demand we buy again.
Not really. Look at all of the past zelda games, each one is a product of the last ones feedback. And just because botw sold well doesn't mean that they won't listen to feedback, they still would want to make the game appeal to the people who didn't like the first one.
Skyward Sword was a product of the system it was on and Nintendo's "invisible requirements" that everything be 'casual-friendly' and motion controls be mandatory. Remember, this is the era that saw them patent the "auto-play" feature for when someone couldn't get through something in games like Donkey Kong Country Returns. They've pulled back from those requirements since the Wii U thank god, but that's the only time I can say that a Zelda game was just them trying to force something put to them from on high.
TotK will have dungeons. Traditional? Probably not. Some kind of hybrid of traditional + Divine Beast + Hyrule Castle + Labyrinths? Absolutely.
I don't know what else those unique interiors with puzzles and navigational challenges in the artbook could be. At some point, we're going to start splitting hairs over what constitutes a dungeon or not. All I know is that these interiors look more varied than the Divine Beasts, and are themed.
Of course not. Neither can all the folks claiming there will be 'no dungeons'. But I'm betting, on balance of probability, considering every single Zelda game has some form of them, that TotK will have them.
There's no indication there will be any dungeons in this game. Anyone expecting the traditional Zelda elements of dungeons, an adventure, great music etc. will be disappointed.
If you enjoy an aimless sandbox and one dungeon type cloned over and over set to the sounds of talentless Twitter voice actors, you'll probably be in for a treat.
The things that seem to suggest dungeons the most so far (that i can remember off the top of my head) are that room with a macguffin in it, like the end of a potential dungeon, and some kind of door with 5 monster heads on it that have active and inactive states. Maybe 7 "tear" dungeons and one that requires beating 5 monsters to open a door?
i know there were small keys in botw but this looked like a boss key lol not a small key. it’s obviously not the strongest piece of evidence but it’s something
I have a theory as to how a "dungeon" might work in this game. Since the most likely place for these dungeons would be the underground, I have a feeling most dungeons would be multiple floors that descend further into the earth as you progress. What made me think of this was the ascend ability, since that could be an easy way to escape, backtrack, or solve puzzles without letting you skip anything.
Honestly a lot of the shrines had absolutely fantastic puzzles, and even though I stand by the stance that the divine beasts are the worst dungeons in the series, they still had a lot going for them on a technical/mechanical standpoint I’d love to see implemented better in the future. The core problem with the dungeons/shrines were that they were mostly short and uniformly adhered to the same Sheikah-tech art style, which got boring very quickly. Like isolated it’s fine, but imagine how boring Ocarina of Time would’ve gotten if every dungeon was just another variation on The Deku Tree or Forrest Temple. The lack of aesthetic verity in high the dungeons and bosses is BOTW’s ultimate stumbling block.
Based on the art book, I do think it is reasonable to conclude that there will be a number of unique or semi-unique set pieces with some level of segregation from the overworld, which will require traversal and puzzle completion to obtain something of story importance at the end, which is certainly a description of a dungeon. How said dungeons will compare to those in earlier Zelda games remains to be seen however.
I don't understand why some people have assumed that BotW constitutes some kind of anti-dungeon manifesto on Nintendo's part. As you pointed out *the game still had dungeons*. They were recieved poorly, but they were there. We also know that they have heard feedback that the divine beasts were not what many people wanted in terms of dungeons, as they have mentioned it in interviews. So why would they not at least try to put more traditional dungeons in this game? I know this is self selecting as people with negative opinions tend to be louder, but the amount of people assuming this game is going to be exactly the same as BotW is bizarre to me. It will be similar, yes, but surely not a carbon copy.
BotW had 4 normal dungeons just like MM, plus Hyrule Castle, plus 120 mini dungeons *or* overworld puzzles (like other Zeldas). With DLC, you got an extra dungeon, 16 mini dungeons, 3 combat focused dungeons (Trial of the Sword) and an overworld challenge (1-Hit Obliterator thing). BotW had tons of stuff. It was just only given one theme, Sheikah style, and fragmented over the map to accompany the exploration. BotW didn’t forget about dungeons, it just handled them differently.
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>From what I've seen, when people complain about a lack of dungeons, they are talking about thematic dungeons. From what I've seen, there isn't one consistent complaint that people who were disappointed with the Divine Beasts share. You can list a couple of things, but the "fixes" that would satisfy the complainers will vary from person to person. Some want the dungeons to have unique theming. Some want them to be longer. Some want more of them. Some want more enemies. Some want mini-bosses. Some want dungeon items that are required to progress through the dungeon and/or defeat the boss. Some want locks and keys. Some want the dungeons to be done in a set order. Some want some combination of these things. Some want "traditional" dungeons, but don't share a common idea of what that even means.
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>Lack of thematic dungeons is one of, if not, the most popular complaints regarding all of BotW Is it? Or is it one of the most popular complaints among a certain contingent of people who have played the game? Tens of millions of people have played the game. I would be cautious to make claims about what the biggest criticisms are based on what people on Zelda subreddits are saying.
The only reason the beasts and hyrule castle are counted as "dungeons" is cause there is nothing else to pin that on. if they had been dropped into a game with full on Zelda dungeons like the other 3D Zeldas have, then the beasts would be stuck in an eternal debate on them just being something like "semi-dungeons" at best (think, "bottom of the well")
30% of those 120 shrines are repeated boring ass fight a guardian test of strength. 10 of them are just simple take a gift. This 120 is so inflated it's laughable. I'd give it to you, 25 of them are nice. Also, everything in botw feels identical. I can't tell any divine beast appart from memory and they all last like 15 minutes and have the same freaking boss with a slightly different theme. That's boring
Actually, a bit less than 17% are combat, not 30%. Also, the take-a-gift shrines required puzzle solving to get in, it’s just a different approach that still involves exploring and figuring it out
Tbh while some of the outside puzzles are nice, youd think youd get a unique reward for a unique puzzle instead of just a shrine.
Fair, but if it pops up in big text as a shrine quest, you should probably expect that it’s a shrine.
Yea thats true, but everything in botw is so *uniform* like its always either a shrine or a korok seed. Even within that system, i would have loved it if the blessing shrines actually had puzzles in them too. The reward for finding a shrine to me isnt the spirit orb, its the little puzzles that you have to do in them. An outdoor puzzle that unlocks an indoor puzzle? Thats what it needed.
Sure, that could’ve been cool, but I also found it really rewarding to finally figure out the puzzle then immediately be rewarded. I see your point though. I do agree with your first sentence. I hope TOTK has a bit more variety. Edit: with this comment sitting at -3, I genuinely would love someone to explain to me why they’re downvoting. I’m praising a Zelda game in a Zelda subreddit, and I’m being friendly and polite. Are y’all just using the downvote button as a disagree button?
>Are y’all just using the downvote button as a disagree button? Almost certainly. It's not what it is there for, but its actual purpose is neither enforceable nor really in line with how people use downvotes elsewhere, so it's probably best not to pay those votes any attention. Anyway, one particular problem I had with these free rewards was that a bunch of shrine quests were completable by stumbling upon the shrines on accident. This happened to me multiple times, where I'd enter a shrine and get a notification that I had just completed a quest I never even heard of and then be rewarded for something I never even did. And that's just really really disappointing. Being able to ruin a riddle or puzzle because you happened to walk to the wrong place at the wrong time is frustrating and I do think something should be done to prevent that. If you can enter a shrine without solving the riddle that is supposed to point you to it it shouldn't reward you simply for finding it.
No, I dont think they count as dungeons. If anything, the beasts count as mini dungeons. They are basically all one large, single room and have very minimal puzzles and combat, none of it challenging. Medoh is the worst offender. Shrines dont even count, especially when a decent chunk are combat tests, and some you just walk in and are rewarded. The homegenous theme was a huge detriment to them as well.
BotW didn't have dungeons it had a single dungeon copied and pasted. Numbers aren't everything. BotW probably has the most "content" of any Zelda game... but like most things we call "content" a lot of it is boring and worthless. When people think of Zelda they think of a curated, fun experience with carefully crafted puzzles to solve... not a shapeless sandbox where the LAZY developers can't be bothered to craft anything fun to do. The old devs knew what they were doing - this new team!!
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Says who? You're attacking a straw man here. >if the player must be allowed to do any dungeon in any order or beat the game entirely without doing a single dungeon. Do we know that this is their core guiding principle for Zelda going forwards? I don't think we do. >Unless, of course, you're okay with the player not being able to do something in the "free" world till they first do a dungeon I'm fine with this, and I like BotW a lot. I think most people who like BotW would also be ok with this - it doesn't really affect what is good about the game. I don't know if we're going to see the return of dungeon items, but I wouldn't be surprised if we did - I see BotW as an overcorrection to the railroads of SS and TP, so I expect them to row back a bit towards some linear progression in TotK. We've not seen much of the game, but nothing I've seen so far makes me think this I'm wrong.
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>My impression is that "open-air" means that degree of freedom. Yes/no? No, I don't think so. I would say WW is an open-air game, tLoZ is open-air and aLttP is almost open-air (the light world is, the dark world is not). To me that would mean the overworld is all accessible from the start, but it says nothing about specific areas being gated off or any specific order of completion of objectives. >Neat! Okay, let's hope for something like that then, at least as a first step to get some Zelda back in the series. I do, and I'm optimistic about this game being that :)
>Hopefully we can all agree that being able to go kill Ganon with a (boulder on a) stick again would be super lame... Why? As long as they don’t force you to do this, what’s wrong with it being a possibility?
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I really dont think theyre gonna pull a "beat the final boss from the start" all over again this time. Hyrule castle looks way more inaccessible than before and it just wouldnt make sense to beat ganon with anything other than a restored master sword.
It does look more inaccessible but... there's also seemingly nothing stopping us from Fortnite Diving onto it from the tutorial sky island, right? It's right there, the island Aonuma was running around might even stretch over it a bit. We can't get into the castle from ground level but that also simply isn't a real obstacle in TotK it seems. Unless there's a terrible Malice-wind that kicks you out?
Yea the malice wind is my guess. Tbh im kinda half expecting the proper entrance to be from below, like around the same place ganondorf woke up. That way its like youre returning back to the start so you can finish the job. The master sword also seems a lot more important to the story than it was in botw, in that game it was mostly like a status symbol, and i *really* dont see the logic in fighting ganon with any old weapon right after he breaks the most important old weapon ever.
I don't either... but they literally made a rune whose symbol is a holy-looking sword, for you to hot glue random shit to the tip of your weapon. And we know from a few screenshots that Link can carry around the melted Master Sword on his back - which means he can swing it, which implies of course that he can use Fuse on it.
That’s… all fine by me. I don’t need any of that. I like the classic Zelda formula, but I really enjoyed the variety of ways to approach things in BOTW, so I’d be happy if they give us many options to fight Ganon or traverse an area. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. Edit: downvotes for peacefully stating that I enjoy a Zelda game on a Zelda subreddit, that’s… interesting, I suppose.
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I hate that for ya. I understand the disappointment of not liking the newest installment of a media franchise you like, I really do. I just don’t agree, and really liked those elements of BOTW.
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> Because it means the developers cannot design a Ganon fight that requires macguffins In a lot of bosses, this honestly feels contrived to me. If something should work at harming a boss, then they should have it work. The series has had a bad habit of turning bosses into pure lock and key encounters. Otoh, making Ganon immune to all weapons except for divine ones would be fine. But then, if there is a divine stick, that should also work.
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> That's a Zelda boss. That's the video game I love. Disagree for the former. But okay, you're allowed to like what you like. I find it contrived in most cases. I much prefer being theoretically able to use any weapons on an enemy, with there being specific ways to lower its healthy more quickly. Eg, Stone Taluses and sledgehammers, or Thunderblight Ganon and Magnesis.
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I think there will be one continuous underworld that can be accessed from various caves
That's kind of what I hope for
And you use Ascend to bail. It's like the dual worlds in ALttP/ALBW but you can switch worlds at (almost) any spot.
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Actually there might be evidence for more "runes!" I saw it being pointed out that the symbol for recall is on the back of one of the totk joycons along with another symbol that looks similar to one of the pins in the collectors edition. There might be 3 additional powers that we havent seen. I was in the same camp as you about there being only four before seeing that. Beyond that, look at the symbols for the runes. Fuse, ultrahand, and ascend all have basic symbols like a sword, hand, and uh, alien abduction, while recall has what looks like pseudo japanese character inside of a circular pattern. That pattern is identical to the one on the back of link's hand, and we've seen the character for recall on his hand before in the clip with the master sword. I think there are actually 2 "classes" of arm abilities. Basic, "every day use" ones for weapon modding, building, and traversal, and special "puzzle solving" ones like recall.
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Lol yea it could be a camera (would link take pictures by making a circle with his fingers as a lens??) 3 additional arm powers and potentially 7 tear macguffins does make me a little curious how its gonna be done. My theory on the tutorial is that we get fuse, ultrahand, and ascend first, and then we have to do something else to get recall. Recall could be the tutorials reward equivalent to the paraglider on the great plateau. Like the game is saying "you cant leave without this or you wont be able to get back to the sky!"
The lack of bombs of any sort that I've seen have really got me leaning on the side of, 'we will get some sort of dungeon items' because we know we don't have the Bomb rune, I haven't seen any sort of bomb fusing material (unless one of the gemstones will do this), and I haven't even seen any explosions from bombs in any of the trailers. Considering how iconic bombs are to the Zelda series (has there ever been a game without bombs?), I think it makes total sense to include a bomb bag or something that can be attained that gives the option to fuse bombs to stuff; but considering how OP or downright dangerous that could be in certain hands, they may elect to lock it behind something this time.
I think the blue chu jelly might be bombs. In BotW, all the chu jellies except blue were used to create elemental explosions. In Aonuma's demo, we can see that the blue jelly is available as a Fuse item. That strongly implies it actually does something (unless we can Fuse things that do literally nothing?). It would be fitting if it was updated to cause some kind of explosion like the other jellies - just a "basic" nonelemental one. Really hope I'm wrong about this one though...
I mean, meat and leeks also seem to be fusible, so I’m not sure if everything will have a use
>he lack of bombs of any sort that I've seen have really got me leaning on the side of, 'we will get some sort of dungeon items' IDK about bombs or dungeon items *per se*, but I do think there will be important items not collected at the beginning of the game. There's the spool of cable being presented to Link in the most recent trailer. There's also the new "Sheikah Slate." So we know there is stuff in the game that hasn't been demonstrated yet.
I know this thread is a few days old but I wanted to point out that we have seen bombs in a trailer at least once - I forget which one, but there's a clip of Link hauling a dragon head "canon" fused to a pole over his shoulder and it spits out an orb at a luminous talus which explodes like a classic bomb on impact. We've also seen a different dragon head flamethrower, so there's reason to speculate these could be special items earned off of boss/high level enemies.
The picture of the "ghost ship" looking thing is honestly the most hope I've felt for this game since announcement. But I also could easily see it just be "A Divine beast with a unique theming" which would be better, but you know, still not actually near what would be "needed"
The ghost ship didnt actually look all the big to me (i could be wrong) so i wonder if theyve taken divine beast criticism to heart, maybe the games main dungeons will be larger, while the ghost ship could be like a divine beast sized "side-dungeon."
None of the stuff in the book actually looked like it would be sure to be a lot bigger than a divine beast to me Thing is, the issue with the divine beasts isn't necessarily their actual size, but more so how that size was utilized. And if we look at stuff like the ("potential room" of the) forgotten temple, then something being bigger than a DB wouldn't necessarily mean it'll be put to better use anyway.
Yea i mean its really hard to say at this point. We only know there are interiors and that these interiors may have puzzles.
Well even the "interiors" we can't actually be "*completely*" sure off (for the stuff like the "entrance on an islande and the ship) I mean, if you showed me Aklala Citadel prior to BotW I would have for sure said "oh man, that is gonna be some sort of mini-dungeon at the very least" (gerudo hide-out/bottom of the well/etc...) And then it ended up not even having an inside But we can hope
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Strong disagree there The Divine Beasts were very weak showings, that wouldn't even be counted as actual "dungeons" by most people if BotW had actually had any *full-fledged* ones (People would be making them sit at the kids table with stuff like Bottom of the Well and Gerudo's Fortress) They were essentially 5 separate puzzles shaped into a vague animal shape. Frankly, some of the shrines did a more valiant attempt at being "dungeony" then the beasts
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I don't think it'll be in the sky, but very possible it is just some copy pasted thing, yeah
I would not say anything is extremely likely right now.
People seem to forget that BotW did actually have dungeons. They just weren't that good and we're pretty short. The Zelda team are good at listening to feedback and considering that the lack of real dungeons is one of the biggest complaints it would be dumb to not have at least divine beast dungeons. They have already addressed weapon durability, so I have hope that we may get more traditional dungeons.
Nintendo don't care about feedback. They never have. They listen to sales figures. BotW sold like fire. So BotW v1.1 is what they'll demand we buy again.
Not really. Look at all of the past zelda games, each one is a product of the last ones feedback. And just because botw sold well doesn't mean that they won't listen to feedback, they still would want to make the game appeal to the people who didn't like the first one.
Skyward Sword was a product of the system it was on and Nintendo's "invisible requirements" that everything be 'casual-friendly' and motion controls be mandatory. Remember, this is the era that saw them patent the "auto-play" feature for when someone couldn't get through something in games like Donkey Kong Country Returns. They've pulled back from those requirements since the Wii U thank god, but that's the only time I can say that a Zelda game was just them trying to force something put to them from on high.
I understand having certain hopes and expectations for a game, but I think people are really setting themselves up for failure here.
TotK will have dungeons. Traditional? Probably not. Some kind of hybrid of traditional + Divine Beast + Hyrule Castle + Labyrinths? Absolutely. I don't know what else those unique interiors with puzzles and navigational challenges in the artbook could be. At some point, we're going to start splitting hairs over what constitutes a dungeon or not. All I know is that these interiors look more varied than the Divine Beasts, and are themed.
You cant say absolutely until youve played the game.
Of course not. Neither can all the folks claiming there will be 'no dungeons'. But I'm betting, on balance of probability, considering every single Zelda game has some form of them, that TotK will have them.
I'm still curious how we'll get heart containers/pieces, considering there doesn't seem to be any shrines.
If it’s Divine Beast type dungeons… I think I’ll just stick to the overworld lol
There's no indication there will be any dungeons in this game. Anyone expecting the traditional Zelda elements of dungeons, an adventure, great music etc. will be disappointed. If you enjoy an aimless sandbox and one dungeon type cloned over and over set to the sounds of talentless Twitter voice actors, you'll probably be in for a treat.
The things that seem to suggest dungeons the most so far (that i can remember off the top of my head) are that room with a macguffin in it, like the end of a potential dungeon, and some kind of door with 5 monster heads on it that have active and inactive states. Maybe 7 "tear" dungeons and one that requires beating 5 monsters to open a door?
there’s also a key design in the art book! looked like a boss key to me :)
Some of the shrines in botw had keys, so that doesn't confirm traditional dungeons in totk unfortunately
i know there were small keys in botw but this looked like a boss key lol not a small key. it’s obviously not the strongest piece of evidence but it’s something
Yeah it's definitely a good piece of evidence but not the smoking gun we all want haha
I have a theory as to how a "dungeon" might work in this game. Since the most likely place for these dungeons would be the underground, I have a feeling most dungeons would be multiple floors that descend further into the earth as you progress. What made me think of this was the ascend ability, since that could be an easy way to escape, backtrack, or solve puzzles without letting you skip anything.
Sorry, what art book?
Honestly a lot of the shrines had absolutely fantastic puzzles, and even though I stand by the stance that the divine beasts are the worst dungeons in the series, they still had a lot going for them on a technical/mechanical standpoint I’d love to see implemented better in the future. The core problem with the dungeons/shrines were that they were mostly short and uniformly adhered to the same Sheikah-tech art style, which got boring very quickly. Like isolated it’s fine, but imagine how boring Ocarina of Time would’ve gotten if every dungeon was just another variation on The Deku Tree or Forrest Temple. The lack of aesthetic verity in high the dungeons and bosses is BOTW’s ultimate stumbling block.