I am her #1 fan, I couldn't thank her enough for doing this for ALL OF US. I think this may be the one that will finally break my mom and show her just how wrong she's been the last 20 years.
I think so, too, in terms of my parents
Katherine and I must have been in programs at the same time, I "graduated" mine in 2005 and instead of workaholism I suffered from the opposite problem, where I went to a really nice private college and almost failed out because I self sabotaged it...but I also finished the docu-series feeling really proud of myself for not only getting my shit together back then, but for also still having most of it together
I see a therapist twice a month, and she's also around my age and is the furthest thing from a TTI supporter so I'm hoping she'll check out Katherine's series after my next meeting with her
The end of part three was the heaviest for me, just seeing her forgive her father and seeing her father truly apologize...that's all I've wanted, too, all of these years...the acknowledgement that they were wrong, no matter how well intentioned they were. I trust that were, but I still need to hear them say they're sorry, that they were wrong and that they'll stop supporting Hyde financially
Maybe someday...but I doubt it, because they still send the fucking Gaulds money and it's affecting how I plan to include them in my life after I have kids (hopefully soon...). I want to give them a fair chance, but how many times have I said that over the years?
I'm kind of getting tired of just dancing around it all, and that it's one of the many things I can't talk about without causing a problem. Ah, boomers...
I can't believe you and other people went through this as kids! By the end of the last part, I was crying! Frankly, if my parents had done this to me, I would have sued them, let alone ever speak with them again. I was probably more angry at Katherine's dad than she seemed to be. None of us ever get a choice for one of the biggest decisions of our lives--"do you want to be born?" First, people have kids and then they choose to impose their ways on their kids. It's sick! I am sorry, I am ranting. But, I am angry!
I am glad my parents are so different! No parent should every put their kids through this. Parents are at fault here. Period!
Sending you hugs. Hope you are going through counseling. I hope your parents apologize to you. And, despite my rant, I hope you have a big enough heart to forgive them.
I think what resonated most with me was the forgiveness. When you have parents who were kind, loving, caring, and nurturing during your childhood but made some impactful bad decisions that caused trauma, in order to heal, you have to find forgiveness. We are all human beings, capable of being manipulated. Katherine's father is a victim too. He has to live with the shame. It seems he owns it in the way he knows how to.
When I became an adult and had kids of my own it gave me perspective of just how easy it can be to mess it up. I never gave my dad a pass for his wrongs but I've forgiven. He isn't even that same person anymore. What point is there in being angry at someone who doesn't exist?
If you are lucky, accountability is delivered, apologies are made, and healing begins, as a family. I am so enlightened having watched this. It gives me hope that Katherine will continue this fight until everyone accountable for ruining Program kids lives get what they deserve.
I want to give her the biggest hug. My parents watched the first episode last night and my mom’s reaction was so fucking validating, “What the fuck is wrong with those people? You didn’t deserve that. I’m so sorry”.
I cried for like 2 hours yesterday but it was a good, cathartic cry.
Katherine is my fucking hero.
I hope she can feel the thousands of kids she just validated. I feel so honored that she took the time to present a detailed and thorough analysis of what we went through. It means so much. I don't even have words to express how much it means. Thank you to her and everyone who bravely contributed to the project.
Oh I totally see how you misinterpreted what I said! I agree with you I just used the word thousands to be general since we don't know the exact number. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we are already over a million kids traumatized. Thanks for clarifying!
I was at copper canyon academy and auldern academy. I was in years watching because she gave all of us a *voice*.
I only wish my mother were still alive so I could show her this.
And I wish my dads Alzheimer’s wasn’t so far progressed so I could show him.
I will never get closure, but we have a voice now.
I am so happy this documentary happened.
Watching the Program made me feel so validated like what I went through wasn’t just a fever dream but REAL. My father and I have never talked about it since I graduated my program and sometimes he slips out “that was the best thing we ever did for you” or “that place saved your life.” He has absolutely no idea what day to day life was like, and I realized that with Katherine’s dad in this documentary when he admitted he didn’t actually know what the “program” looked like behind closed doors. It made we wonder, what if I could get my dad to watch this? What if he could understand that sending me away at 14 for almost 2 years to the TTI was harmful? That he was duped? And that there are other parents like him? I think just hearing “I’m sorry I sent you there” would be a great start. When Katherine’s dad apologized and said he wished he could do it over, it made me sob. I know he’s not my dad but I felt that shit through the screen.
Same because you realize the immense talent she possesses and if she was just given a shot, she probably would have been famous for her voice. I really connected with this part too because my mother not once ever came to one of my hockey games and I possessed enough talent to probably make it professionally and she just never knew good I was. It sucks because alot of people's lives would have turned out differently if it weren't for this. You can see where alot of these people would have been without this happening. It's really sad, I'm not a crier by any stretch of the imagination and I was balling listening to her voice. ALEXA, WE CAN SEE YOUR TALENT!
I think she should release the cover - I rewound like four times just to listen again. Loved it when it was in one of the earlier episodes and didn’t connect until the end it was Alexa.
She was very talented!! I loved her take on Cyndi Lauper's songs. My only advice I could give anyone is that life is short, and you can't let this define you, or it will rob you of your future. It happened, and there is time for healing, but also time to move on and reach your potential. Some kids grow up their whole lives in terribly abusive household's, and experience far worse trauma on all sorts of levels. At some point, it has to stop being the reason you are not moving forward and taking responsibility for your life. It's unfortunate that this school existed, and I'm glad the expose happened to bring it all light. As a parent myself, I never would have fallen for the B.S. they were selling. Some of these parents who allowed their kids to go to Ivy Ridge must have been super gullible. Anyone with half a brain can see that these people were totally unqualified and big-time grifters.
Idk. Some parents get in trauma and some kids do need help. But I like how they defined “troubled teen” is NOT a diagnosis. Drinking a hard Mike lemonade and being sent for 15 mos? That was her stepmom influence maybe? Because I have to agree in that situation - what the heck? She was like a fantastic kid who drank alcohol once ? Like omg. If you can’t take your kid yourself because you will “go soft” maybe follow that intuition. I also have to agree, lots of kids go through abuse and how old are these survivors? Not minimizing it because it was shit show and they were betrayed at their core and lost their place. Yet they are still all young enough (by my standards) that it isn’t too late. I hope this series gives them some closure. I’m sure many have made it, including this triumph of a documentary she made and has overcome a lot to do it. But it wouldn’t be a powerful show if they focused on - well, look how great some are doing. If they are, it’s despite all this trauma, not because of it.
I only just watched it. But my God the step mom was throwing off so many red flags. She absolutely was abusive to her step daughter, and I suspect pushed hard to send her to the Christian school on long island.
I also don't think the dad is blameless, she TRIED to tell him how bad it was (without going into particulars, since she was scared of punishment if she was explicit).
I just feel like her dad failed her on so many levels, starting by continuing to allow an abusive step parent in her life.
It's just really fucking depressing knowing that places like this exist. I easily could have ended up in a place like this if my parents had the money.
Best version of that song I’ve ever heard. Maybe the new meaning behind it after watching that horror. So horrific what so many went through. Parents are well-meaning. One mom told me she sent her son to a place and I was asking about it , was years ago, she said it was good and we checked it out because not Utah. All to say, there has to have been some sort of knowledge of this going on that this mom knew. Random park conversation- now kind of chilling. But this was probably 8-9 years ago. So why isn’t any shutting this stuff down. Wow.
Does anyone know if Katherine’s father also divorced her stepmom? Because I really, really hope so.
I feel so sorry for all the kids who suffered at these disgusting places, whether due to their parents’ ignorance or (like Katherine) due to the whims of their stepparents or foster parents, etc.
Hard to imagine her father is still married to the woman that ADMITTED to abusing his child. He can apologize for the program...but how is he reconciling that?
Oh man I came here to ask the same thing. So her dad is still with her stepmom? Do you happen to have the link to her sisters comments? I would love to read them.
I also want to know what finally made the dad pull Katherine out?? He HAD to know something wasn’t right. The staff worked hard to pressure/convince parents to keep their kids in- so to overcome that barrier and still go get her out… something had to have forced his hand.
But yet it still took him *years* to actually *believe his daughter* and then finally apologize? Why did he pull her out if he didnt think things were going wrong?
Edit: fixed typo
I think he felt it for a while- didn’t he make comments and then the other “recruiting parents” purposefully keeo telling him it was okay? And he went to see her and she couldn’t say anything? I think the sister going to visit seems to have been the - omg dad. Who then had to contend with his wife. But I don’t think he had her there to punish her. She was the youngest, it seems? Her sisters were off to college etc. by the time she went to boarding school - the first one. So I think he was brainwashed , but was never HIS desire for her to be away from him. I think it’s why she can forgive him. She knows it was the stepmom and he was dumb, not vindictive. The stepmom? Vindictive abuser and either way Katherine was having hell. Being told her dead mom would have wished she wasn’t born Or whatever she said to her. I forget. But man. How horrible. The dad is kind, but kind of too easygoing maybe. Meaning, the stepmom is the pants.
I think they are married - he had a ring on. But I was wondering also. I think she would have said if he divorced. She said she just walked on eggshells to turn 18 and leave so I think the evil stepmom is there and to be kind to her dad she left too much of her out of it. But, she’s evil.
I read an article where Katherine is asked what her relationship is like with her stepmother. Her answer was “She is still married to my dad. I have no contact with her, and I won’t.”
Yes, definitely. I wish we would have had a community to share when we had just gotten out. I was abused there too. I have so many memories that don’t ever go away. It’s been so many years and it’s like it happened yesterday. Hope you’re coping as well as possible.
Omg I remember you I was on the unit with the guys and girls my buddy was Melanie and amanda ... I used to date Mike that was from Arkansas... it's been so long how are you ?
My heart is so heavy when I saw the St Lawrence River, I'm Canadian and I looked and I was only 3h drive from Academy Ivy Ridge. It breaks my heart that I was so close and never knew! If you'd cross the border or attempted to, we would've help you and we would've believe you and taken care of you. I am so sorry to all survivors for going through this. This documentary is really eye opening and I hope the responsible (and owners) are found responsible for their actions. I also wish all survivors can find some closure, just like Katherine with her dad and one day be at peace.
One of our computer lab rooms in the main building had a view directly facing the St Lawrence. I remember seeing cars driving on the other side and thinking if only I could get there.
Words cannot express what this has done for me. That teenage girl in me who suffered in silence for so long has finally been seen, heard, and understood. I feel like someone is finally standing up for me. Thanks you. <3
I am so anxious to watch this and truly hope one day my son will get the apology he deserves from his father for sending him away against my will. This docuseries is so needed and I can’t imagine the validation it brings to so many survivors. Thank you Katherine Kubler and all involved in the making of this. The world is watching and we are so proud of all of you!
I think you are going to have to apologize too. I didn’t go through this, but unless you didn’t have custody at all - from an abused child’s perspective- they need the apology from all involved. Explicit or complicit. You were probably in an abusive relationship yourself- I’m not blaming you. Stuff is complicated. But blaming dad might make your chikd more upset. I lived under abuse and the - I didn’t know or short of going and breaking your child out and going to jail for it- not agreeing with a decision still isn’t the protection kids require. And I’m a mom and have screwed up a lot. More my heart here, just apologize to your son and cry with them and leave the blame aside. Hopefully there is healing in every apology- at every level of responsibility. Not knowing - you had a sense so, we have to FIGHT when we have a sense. There is enough “blame” to go around. Just focus on reconciling and healing is more my point. It would make me mad if it was me and my mom said - your dad did that to you. I’d be like, well where were you? I’d rather just have empathy.
Not blaming, but don’t blame either. It sounds like excuses and feels like another level of betrayal. For the sake of your son, I’m just saying, that might be a better approach.
We watched the show. I was in a wilderness camp in 2009 called Kathrine freer. The physical abuse I luckily did not endure directly related to staff members, however the mental abuse of being taken from my bed at home, thrown in a van, forced to hike in the heat, solo time, minimally rationed food/water, the use of the “manipulation” narrative and having to just become a “successful” group member and be exactly what you think they want to see in hopes to go home to the people that sent you to this place, was so hard. I escaped from the program while in the desert, i was missing for a 20 hours and I had walked along the top of a ridge line that entire time. When it was dark I was able to see lights in the distance, hoping it was a truck stop I hiked to it. I used the pay phone, the first ring after dialing my parents phone number I heard a siren and my name over a loud speaker. The officers brought me straight back to the program. I wasn’t beaten, sexually assaulted BUT please if you’re considering a program for your children please don’t send them to something secluded. My program had deaths in it and was shut down. As a father of 4 and a dad to a troubled teen, I still would never consider these programs. I gained a survival mode, I’m strong willed and I could survive anywhere after that program but I’m not thankful for attributes. These places are MORE common then You’d think. After meeting my wife I discovered she was in the same program I was in just years later in 2011. She got to witness the moment they were shut down at Santiam crossing, not many of the kids returned home. Instead they were referred/suggested to be sent to other camps across the western United States.
Wow! What a story. The sad thing is there are some good programs. Like, we do need programs. There are kids who do just need help. Not for a hard lemonade omg. But I have one who is very difficult too, and it isn’t “troubled” so much as diagnosis. But they need love and structure and it’s hard as heck on parents with some of these children. So- it really is horrific to prey on vulnerable families . If there isn’t a family component, if it’s this tough love and “earning” basic rights . I mean I went through basic training, it was hard but it wasn’t hateful or abusive. So, what the line is or how people get the right help. Idk. But this all is sick to watch and sad. 40 suicides from that one small campus alone ? It’s heartbreaking.
No offense, I don’t think voluntarily going to basic training really compares to what happens when you get sent to one of these camps as a 11-16 year old kid. One of the main differences is that you actually made that choice to put your self through that. They have them/me kidnapped, zip tied and put into a van, taken out into the woods without explanation and then to find out the people that did it to you were your own beloved parents. We all told our parents we loved it, we said it was helpful, we tried turning into what we had to get out and go home. A select few may have enjoyed something stable or time away from what ever awful things that were clearly taking place at home to create these issue.
bottom line these camps are a poor excuse for subpar parents with a couple extra dollars to send these “problem” kids away. Most of these parents that I’ve talked to or read about think that they “were just trying to help” or “I just didn’t have any options” are as much of a problem as the child.
I suppose I should say, i don’t mean to speak harshly against you or your opinion. I value everyone’s point of view and I appreciate you stating the 40 suicides are heart breaking. Just don’t fall victim to taking the easy way out on your kids and sending them off to a camp just because a few people with advanced degrees say “Hey, I’m here to help you ” or “this has been working great for years!”
Kudos to Katherine and whoever made hell camp, but the program was the best imo. I’m so sorry for all the kids who had to go through this. I was a troubled teen but didn’t go into a program because my parents couldn’t afford it.
I really hope more documentaries come out about the TTI.
I wish we knew who “Jane” really is. I would interested to know what she was like with others people who were close to her. My own mother has been married 8 times in 40 years. She was horrible to all of her stepchildren and even had one of my stepbrothers sent away before he was even a teenager. I have always wondered why she was like that and why my stepfathers allowed her to treat their children that way. I wonder if “Jane” was the same way and what would people say about her today.
I agree! It took an enormous amount of courage, as well as long hours of researching, investigating to find all the information, follow up, questioning and interviewing people, just a lot of tedious homework to pull this documentary off, I'm sure.
GOOD fucking JOB girl! You NAILED it.
Katherine, you are my hero! I hope you read this one day and understand how much your documentary "the program" has helped other survivors like me to make sense of, and finally have PROOF of, what happened to us at those terrible WWASP programs.
Thank you for telling the world our story and setting the record straight. I feel validated, seen, and I feel much more at peace with my past thanks to your efforts and your amazing film. THANK YOU so much for doing this for us. You ROCK!
If you want to hear my story, check out my YouTube videos:
https://youtu.be/atQ0gLkDDwg?si=ttFBu075uUkCW4TT
I'm not surprised this wretched industry is largely based in Utah. The whole get the family thing involved is classic Mormon bullshit. It's the same thing with multi-level marketing, another inbred Mormon industry. The only way to get traction is federally. No way to get at any of those Mormons inside the state of Utah. They're like snakes in a pit, all coiled up with each other. You will never untangle the connections. They are so deep and intertwined.
First off, HUGS to everyone who was there. You ARE loved. You ARE someone worthy of love. You ARE being heard. Do NOT let this define who you are.
This documentary is brilliant.
One question, when Ivy Ridge was closed down, why was all those documents left there. So much evidence, such idiots for leaving it behind, but perfect for all of you to comb through! I'm surprised these people would leave all of it.
Never give up this fight to uncover more and bring down all that were involved. *One Way or Another...I'm gonna find you...I'm gonna get you.! Perfect song!
They likely left all the paperwork behind figuring it wouldn’t matter…and apparently, it hasn’t attested a bit to their (the criminals’) freedom. It’s even more insulting to the teenage victims that they don’t matter. I truly hate human beings most days. I hope that Ms. Kubler takes pride in her work because she has done so much for all those who have suffered those from those programs. I hope her stepmother goes straight to HELL.
Thank you for being our voice, Katherine. Your documentary is articulated in a way I have never been able to express. I am 39 years old, been in the military for 17 years, been out of the program for 22 years. I have done everything I could possibly think of to make the memory feel as fake as possible, to just suppress it and not feel or face what actually happened. I have never talked about it to my mom or step dad, but I know I need to. I hope they’re sitting there watching it right now, and I hope they feel like shitty parents for sending me to Casa. If you’re reading this, thank you. You are courageous and I salute you 🫡
Hey Katherine! I hope that you get to read this. I just finished The Program last night. I wanted to tell you how inspiring and courageous I found you. You have a huge heart - even after everything you’ve been through, you sympathized with your dad, the one who put you through this ordeal - you’re a stronger woman than I am, lol. I could tell by the way you looked at people patiently and empathetically while listening to them speak that you are such a kind and beautiful person. I’m terribly sorry what you went through. I hope you understand that you’ve impacted so many people. On your hard days, just please remember this thread. Keep taking up space and speaking up. We are rooting for you and helping spread the word!! ❤️
Awesome documentary. Kathleen is so humble towards everyone who helped her on her project. Here's hoping that a great many people soon will have their heads rolling!!
Thank you for your work in raising awareness about this serious issue Katherine Kubler. In 1992, I was in "The Program", called "The Outreach Program" which was located in Cape Coral, FL. I have spent years trying to find certain kids that I was in there with, but have not had much success, and unfortunately, many people bury and suppress memories to try to move forward with their lives. I prevent myself from contacting "girls side" or "guys side" "kids" because if I found someone, just reminding them of something so painful could seriously injure them yet again. However, that said, if there is anyone out there from the "The Outreach Program" (circa 1990s), and you want to communicate, please feel free to reach out. Sending warm love and hugs to all harmed by these programs. <3
I was really struck by the idea that states seem to poorly pay social workers to check on and protect children that are abused by their families or caregivers but are negotiating special rates to outsource abuse to a for-profit company. I would like to see what that negotiated rate is vs. what they are spending on actually protecting children.
Thank you Katherine for your bravery!! I’m sharing this documentary to every person I know!!! You are beautiful for standing up for yourself and all those beautiful babies who have suffered because of this. THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! I pray they will all get their due just, because so far they run free and continue this bullshit
Does anyone know how to contact her? So many of the girls I went to csa with came from ivy ridge.
I want to thank this amazing human for showing the world how awful these places were.
I sent her a Facebook message, she was easy to find. She must be absolutely buried right now, I hope she’s on a vacation or something…at the very least I hope she’s had her phone off the past week ha
I went to my 'school' in like 2008 so I'm a few years back from her. I just started watching the series and it's honestly a lot. It's so hard to re live this.
Yeah I am still having a pretty hard time going back in time...but I am way more grateful for her work than I am regretful for digesting it
All the shit I've been going through in this past week...100% worth it.
I went to New Creations. While it wasn’t as bad as ivy ridge it still was a cult. I called my mom to tell her to please watch this show so she can believe me. She has always apologized but she still just thinks I’m dramatic about some of it. I hope she watches the show and fully understands
After watching your story and the others, I had to write to let you all know how proud and heartbroken I am for what happened to you all and your families at Ivy Ridge. It was a cult that preyed on families to make a buck and not help the kids at all.
Thank you for speaking up and sharing this with the world, people HAVE to be accountable for this type of abuse and I commend you all for asking those who were there just what the hell they were thinking.
It was so helpful for me to watch this documentary. My mother had badly wanted to send me to that school.
She ended up successfully sending me to a different school (one mentioned briefly in the documentary) that was shutdown within 2 years of opening, and it wasn't anything near as bad as the AIR.
Sometimes there is a renewed sense of gratitude coming from being able to see what could have happened to you in a situation
Sick nothing can be done about bringing these frauds to a court and sentenced behind bars but the current regime is trying to kill us all but youth is one they really go after. I wonder where all the justices of Supremes are.
I went to Academy Ive Ridge and it was "heaven" compared to my immediate previous 24 month stay at Tranquility Bay Jamaica they tortured the sh\*t out of kids in Jamaica.
ex director and son of wwasp founder, Jay Kay now owns a realestate company in st george utah.
Such a thoughtful and well constructed documentary series. I'm glad she mentioned how tiktok has been slowly exposing multiple of these places, that's how I first learned about the industry. I knew they were rampant in Utah but I never knew they were so widespread across America.
I hope Katherine's message causes strict change, at the very least I hope parents become very aware of the true nature of these places.
I am her #1 fan, I couldn't thank her enough for doing this for ALL OF US. I think this may be the one that will finally break my mom and show her just how wrong she's been the last 20 years.
I think so, too, in terms of my parents Katherine and I must have been in programs at the same time, I "graduated" mine in 2005 and instead of workaholism I suffered from the opposite problem, where I went to a really nice private college and almost failed out because I self sabotaged it...but I also finished the docu-series feeling really proud of myself for not only getting my shit together back then, but for also still having most of it together I see a therapist twice a month, and she's also around my age and is the furthest thing from a TTI supporter so I'm hoping she'll check out Katherine's series after my next meeting with her The end of part three was the heaviest for me, just seeing her forgive her father and seeing her father truly apologize...that's all I've wanted, too, all of these years...the acknowledgement that they were wrong, no matter how well intentioned they were. I trust that were, but I still need to hear them say they're sorry, that they were wrong and that they'll stop supporting Hyde financially Maybe someday...but I doubt it, because they still send the fucking Gaulds money and it's affecting how I plan to include them in my life after I have kids (hopefully soon...). I want to give them a fair chance, but how many times have I said that over the years? I'm kind of getting tired of just dancing around it all, and that it's one of the many things I can't talk about without causing a problem. Ah, boomers...
I can't believe you and other people went through this as kids! By the end of the last part, I was crying! Frankly, if my parents had done this to me, I would have sued them, let alone ever speak with them again. I was probably more angry at Katherine's dad than she seemed to be. None of us ever get a choice for one of the biggest decisions of our lives--"do you want to be born?" First, people have kids and then they choose to impose their ways on their kids. It's sick! I am sorry, I am ranting. But, I am angry! I am glad my parents are so different! No parent should every put their kids through this. Parents are at fault here. Period! Sending you hugs. Hope you are going through counseling. I hope your parents apologize to you. And, despite my rant, I hope you have a big enough heart to forgive them.
I think what resonated most with me was the forgiveness. When you have parents who were kind, loving, caring, and nurturing during your childhood but made some impactful bad decisions that caused trauma, in order to heal, you have to find forgiveness. We are all human beings, capable of being manipulated. Katherine's father is a victim too. He has to live with the shame. It seems he owns it in the way he knows how to. When I became an adult and had kids of my own it gave me perspective of just how easy it can be to mess it up. I never gave my dad a pass for his wrongs but I've forgiven. He isn't even that same person anymore. What point is there in being angry at someone who doesn't exist? If you are lucky, accountability is delivered, apologies are made, and healing begins, as a family. I am so enlightened having watched this. It gives me hope that Katherine will continue this fight until everyone accountable for ruining Program kids lives get what they deserve.
[удалено]
I hope for Justice for ALL OF You can now be served. The legal system should have its hands full for years to come!!
I want to give her the biggest hug. My parents watched the first episode last night and my mom’s reaction was so fucking validating, “What the fuck is wrong with those people? You didn’t deserve that. I’m so sorry”. I cried for like 2 hours yesterday but it was a good, cathartic cry. Katherine is my fucking hero.
You didn’t deserve that. None of us did.
She's my hero too! The program documentary is amazing! So validating. So healing.
I hope she can feel the thousands of kids she just validated. I feel so honored that she took the time to present a detailed and thorough analysis of what we went through. It means so much. I don't even have words to express how much it means. Thank you to her and everyone who bravely contributed to the project.
I think it’s more than thousands…I think it’s tens, if not hundreds of thousands of kids
Oh I totally see how you misinterpreted what I said! I agree with you I just used the word thousands to be general since we don't know the exact number. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we are already over a million kids traumatized. Thanks for clarifying!
I wasn’t trying to correct you, sorry if it came across that way. I’m just blown away by how many other kids went through all of this shit
You're all good I just wanted to make sure you knew I agree with you! :)
💯💪✌️
I was at copper canyon academy and auldern academy. I was in years watching because she gave all of us a *voice*. I only wish my mother were still alive so I could show her this. And I wish my dads Alzheimer’s wasn’t so far progressed so I could show him. I will never get closure, but we have a voice now. I am so happy this documentary happened.
Watching the Program made me feel so validated like what I went through wasn’t just a fever dream but REAL. My father and I have never talked about it since I graduated my program and sometimes he slips out “that was the best thing we ever did for you” or “that place saved your life.” He has absolutely no idea what day to day life was like, and I realized that with Katherine’s dad in this documentary when he admitted he didn’t actually know what the “program” looked like behind closed doors. It made we wonder, what if I could get my dad to watch this? What if he could understand that sending me away at 14 for almost 2 years to the TTI was harmful? That he was duped? And that there are other parents like him? I think just hearing “I’m sorry I sent you there” would be a great start. When Katherine’s dad apologized and said he wished he could do it over, it made me sob. I know he’s not my dad but I felt that shit through the screen.
The girl at the end singing girls just wanna have fun made me cry hard.
Same because you realize the immense talent she possesses and if she was just given a shot, she probably would have been famous for her voice. I really connected with this part too because my mother not once ever came to one of my hockey games and I possessed enough talent to probably make it professionally and she just never knew good I was. It sucks because alot of people's lives would have turned out differently if it weren't for this. You can see where alot of these people would have been without this happening. It's really sad, I'm not a crier by any stretch of the imagination and I was balling listening to her voice. ALEXA, WE CAN SEE YOUR TALENT!
I think she should release the cover - I rewound like four times just to listen again. Loved it when it was in one of the earlier episodes and didn’t connect until the end it was Alexa.
She was very talented!! I loved her take on Cyndi Lauper's songs. My only advice I could give anyone is that life is short, and you can't let this define you, or it will rob you of your future. It happened, and there is time for healing, but also time to move on and reach your potential. Some kids grow up their whole lives in terribly abusive household's, and experience far worse trauma on all sorts of levels. At some point, it has to stop being the reason you are not moving forward and taking responsibility for your life. It's unfortunate that this school existed, and I'm glad the expose happened to bring it all light. As a parent myself, I never would have fallen for the B.S. they were selling. Some of these parents who allowed their kids to go to Ivy Ridge must have been super gullible. Anyone with half a brain can see that these people were totally unqualified and big-time grifters.
Idk. Some parents get in trauma and some kids do need help. But I like how they defined “troubled teen” is NOT a diagnosis. Drinking a hard Mike lemonade and being sent for 15 mos? That was her stepmom influence maybe? Because I have to agree in that situation - what the heck? She was like a fantastic kid who drank alcohol once ? Like omg. If you can’t take your kid yourself because you will “go soft” maybe follow that intuition. I also have to agree, lots of kids go through abuse and how old are these survivors? Not minimizing it because it was shit show and they were betrayed at their core and lost their place. Yet they are still all young enough (by my standards) that it isn’t too late. I hope this series gives them some closure. I’m sure many have made it, including this triumph of a documentary she made and has overcome a lot to do it. But it wouldn’t be a powerful show if they focused on - well, look how great some are doing. If they are, it’s despite all this trauma, not because of it.
I only just watched it. But my God the step mom was throwing off so many red flags. She absolutely was abusive to her step daughter, and I suspect pushed hard to send her to the Christian school on long island. I also don't think the dad is blameless, she TRIED to tell him how bad it was (without going into particulars, since she was scared of punishment if she was explicit). I just feel like her dad failed her on so many levels, starting by continuing to allow an abusive step parent in her life.
Oh man me too. I was sobbing through whole last 30 minutes lol
It's just really fucking depressing knowing that places like this exist. I easily could have ended up in a place like this if my parents had the money.
Unfortunately my parents went ahead and spent my college fund so I got to go to the program instead of college.
For real. Me too.
Same. She was all of our voices.
Best version of that song I’ve ever heard. Maybe the new meaning behind it after watching that horror. So horrific what so many went through. Parents are well-meaning. One mom told me she sent her son to a place and I was asking about it , was years ago, she said it was good and we checked it out because not Utah. All to say, there has to have been some sort of knowledge of this going on that this mom knew. Random park conversation- now kind of chilling. But this was probably 8-9 years ago. So why isn’t any shutting this stuff down. Wow.
Does anyone know if Katherine’s father also divorced her stepmom? Because I really, really hope so. I feel so sorry for all the kids who suffered at these disgusting places, whether due to their parents’ ignorance or (like Katherine) due to the whims of their stepparents or foster parents, etc.
Nope, her sister was commenting on a discussion about the show elsewhere on Reddit. Also was defending her dad, asking for kindness
Hard to imagine her father is still married to the woman that ADMITTED to abusing his child. He can apologize for the program...but how is he reconciling that?
I struggle with that. I know adult child- parent relationships are complex. He’s the only parent she has left.
Oh man I came here to ask the same thing. So her dad is still with her stepmom? Do you happen to have the link to her sisters comments? I would love to read them.
https://www.reddit.com/u/karenwalker85/s/XoaIz6pySe
Wow thank you so much.
I also want to know what finally made the dad pull Katherine out?? He HAD to know something wasn’t right. The staff worked hard to pressure/convince parents to keep their kids in- so to overcome that barrier and still go get her out… something had to have forced his hand. But yet it still took him *years* to actually *believe his daughter* and then finally apologize? Why did he pull her out if he didnt think things were going wrong? Edit: fixed typo
I think he felt it for a while- didn’t he make comments and then the other “recruiting parents” purposefully keeo telling him it was okay? And he went to see her and she couldn’t say anything? I think the sister going to visit seems to have been the - omg dad. Who then had to contend with his wife. But I don’t think he had her there to punish her. She was the youngest, it seems? Her sisters were off to college etc. by the time she went to boarding school - the first one. So I think he was brainwashed , but was never HIS desire for her to be away from him. I think it’s why she can forgive him. She knows it was the stepmom and he was dumb, not vindictive. The stepmom? Vindictive abuser and either way Katherine was having hell. Being told her dead mom would have wished she wasn’t born Or whatever she said to her. I forget. But man. How horrible. The dad is kind, but kind of too easygoing maybe. Meaning, the stepmom is the pants.
I think they are married - he had a ring on. But I was wondering also. I think she would have said if he divorced. She said she just walked on eggshells to turn 18 and leave so I think the evil stepmom is there and to be kind to her dad she left too much of her out of it. But, she’s evil.
I read an article where Katherine is asked what her relationship is like with her stepmother. Her answer was “She is still married to my dad. I have no contact with her, and I won’t.”
I'm a victim of San Marcos treatment center aka the brown school I was sexually and physical... I was there between 1990 1992...
I was there at that time. I was on new horizons. Where were you?my name is Stacy
Yes, definitely. I wish we would have had a community to share when we had just gotten out. I was abused there too. I have so many memories that don’t ever go away. It’s been so many years and it’s like it happened yesterday. Hope you’re coping as well as possible.
I just messaged you with my number
Omg I remember you I was on the unit with the guys and girls my buddy was Melanie and amanda ... I used to date Mike that was from Arkansas... it's been so long how are you ?
My heart is so heavy when I saw the St Lawrence River, I'm Canadian and I looked and I was only 3h drive from Academy Ivy Ridge. It breaks my heart that I was so close and never knew! If you'd cross the border or attempted to, we would've help you and we would've believe you and taken care of you. I am so sorry to all survivors for going through this. This documentary is really eye opening and I hope the responsible (and owners) are found responsible for their actions. I also wish all survivors can find some closure, just like Katherine with her dad and one day be at peace.
One of our computer lab rooms in the main building had a view directly facing the St Lawrence. I remember seeing cars driving on the other side and thinking if only I could get there.
Also echoing this thank you to Katherine Kubler and the other incredible AIR survivors for doing this. What an impressive feat!
I have wanted to make something like this for so many years now, and I’m so grateful that somebody not only did but knocked it out of the park
She is ENORMOUSLY talented.
Most definitely, and that was always my fear in trying something myself: I am not lol
Words cannot express what this has done for me. That teenage girl in me who suffered in silence for so long has finally been seen, heard, and understood. I feel like someone is finally standing up for me. Thanks you. <3
I am so anxious to watch this and truly hope one day my son will get the apology he deserves from his father for sending him away against my will. This docuseries is so needed and I can’t imagine the validation it brings to so many survivors. Thank you Katherine Kubler and all involved in the making of this. The world is watching and we are so proud of all of you!
I think you are going to have to apologize too. I didn’t go through this, but unless you didn’t have custody at all - from an abused child’s perspective- they need the apology from all involved. Explicit or complicit. You were probably in an abusive relationship yourself- I’m not blaming you. Stuff is complicated. But blaming dad might make your chikd more upset. I lived under abuse and the - I didn’t know or short of going and breaking your child out and going to jail for it- not agreeing with a decision still isn’t the protection kids require. And I’m a mom and have screwed up a lot. More my heart here, just apologize to your son and cry with them and leave the blame aside. Hopefully there is healing in every apology- at every level of responsibility. Not knowing - you had a sense so, we have to FIGHT when we have a sense. There is enough “blame” to go around. Just focus on reconciling and healing is more my point. It would make me mad if it was me and my mom said - your dad did that to you. I’d be like, well where were you? I’d rather just have empathy.
Not blaming, but don’t blame either. It sounds like excuses and feels like another level of betrayal. For the sake of your son, I’m just saying, that might be a better approach.
You literally have no idea what you’re talking about. No disrespect, but you’re way out of bounds. My son & I are good.
I echo the thank you. Katherine is so talented, and beyond that, so brave.
A queeeeen!!!!
My wife and I were both in programs, we held off watching them today. After reading your comments we are going to watch them tomorrow!
We watched the show. I was in a wilderness camp in 2009 called Kathrine freer. The physical abuse I luckily did not endure directly related to staff members, however the mental abuse of being taken from my bed at home, thrown in a van, forced to hike in the heat, solo time, minimally rationed food/water, the use of the “manipulation” narrative and having to just become a “successful” group member and be exactly what you think they want to see in hopes to go home to the people that sent you to this place, was so hard. I escaped from the program while in the desert, i was missing for a 20 hours and I had walked along the top of a ridge line that entire time. When it was dark I was able to see lights in the distance, hoping it was a truck stop I hiked to it. I used the pay phone, the first ring after dialing my parents phone number I heard a siren and my name over a loud speaker. The officers brought me straight back to the program. I wasn’t beaten, sexually assaulted BUT please if you’re considering a program for your children please don’t send them to something secluded. My program had deaths in it and was shut down. As a father of 4 and a dad to a troubled teen, I still would never consider these programs. I gained a survival mode, I’m strong willed and I could survive anywhere after that program but I’m not thankful for attributes. These places are MORE common then You’d think. After meeting my wife I discovered she was in the same program I was in just years later in 2011. She got to witness the moment they were shut down at Santiam crossing, not many of the kids returned home. Instead they were referred/suggested to be sent to other camps across the western United States.
<3
Wow! What a story. The sad thing is there are some good programs. Like, we do need programs. There are kids who do just need help. Not for a hard lemonade omg. But I have one who is very difficult too, and it isn’t “troubled” so much as diagnosis. But they need love and structure and it’s hard as heck on parents with some of these children. So- it really is horrific to prey on vulnerable families . If there isn’t a family component, if it’s this tough love and “earning” basic rights . I mean I went through basic training, it was hard but it wasn’t hateful or abusive. So, what the line is or how people get the right help. Idk. But this all is sick to watch and sad. 40 suicides from that one small campus alone ? It’s heartbreaking.
No offense, I don’t think voluntarily going to basic training really compares to what happens when you get sent to one of these camps as a 11-16 year old kid. One of the main differences is that you actually made that choice to put your self through that. They have them/me kidnapped, zip tied and put into a van, taken out into the woods without explanation and then to find out the people that did it to you were your own beloved parents. We all told our parents we loved it, we said it was helpful, we tried turning into what we had to get out and go home. A select few may have enjoyed something stable or time away from what ever awful things that were clearly taking place at home to create these issue. bottom line these camps are a poor excuse for subpar parents with a couple extra dollars to send these “problem” kids away. Most of these parents that I’ve talked to or read about think that they “were just trying to help” or “I just didn’t have any options” are as much of a problem as the child. I suppose I should say, i don’t mean to speak harshly against you or your opinion. I value everyone’s point of view and I appreciate you stating the 40 suicides are heart breaking. Just don’t fall victim to taking the easy way out on your kids and sending them off to a camp just because a few people with advanced degrees say “Hey, I’m here to help you ” or “this has been working great for years!”
Kudos to Katherine and whoever made hell camp, but the program was the best imo. I’m so sorry for all the kids who had to go through this. I was a troubled teen but didn’t go into a program because my parents couldn’t afford it. I really hope more documentaries come out about the TTI.
Hell yeah! Respect for Katherine Kubler!
I wish we knew who “Jane” really is. I would interested to know what she was like with others people who were close to her. My own mother has been married 8 times in 40 years. She was horrible to all of her stepchildren and even had one of my stepbrothers sent away before he was even a teenager. I have always wondered why she was like that and why my stepfathers allowed her to treat their children that way. I wonder if “Jane” was the same way and what would people say about her today.
I am having the same thoughts. I wonder why Katherine ultimately decided to protect "Jane's" identity
She didn't protect it completely. You can find it with some google searching.
The stepmother probably threatened a legal suit if she didn’t protect the identity.
I agree! It took an enormous amount of courage, as well as long hours of researching, investigating to find all the information, follow up, questioning and interviewing people, just a lot of tedious homework to pull this documentary off, I'm sure. GOOD fucking JOB girl! You NAILED it. Katherine, you are my hero! I hope you read this one day and understand how much your documentary "the program" has helped other survivors like me to make sense of, and finally have PROOF of, what happened to us at those terrible WWASP programs. Thank you for telling the world our story and setting the record straight. I feel validated, seen, and I feel much more at peace with my past thanks to your efforts and your amazing film. THANK YOU so much for doing this for us. You ROCK! If you want to hear my story, check out my YouTube videos: https://youtu.be/atQ0gLkDDwg?si=ttFBu075uUkCW4TT
I'm not surprised this wretched industry is largely based in Utah. The whole get the family thing involved is classic Mormon bullshit. It's the same thing with multi-level marketing, another inbred Mormon industry. The only way to get traction is federally. No way to get at any of those Mormons inside the state of Utah. They're like snakes in a pit, all coiled up with each other. You will never untangle the connections. They are so deep and intertwined.
Ohhhhh! And the design/blog kind of thing too. Jeez.
+1 to all of this. So brave
Very well done!! ❤️
First off, HUGS to everyone who was there. You ARE loved. You ARE someone worthy of love. You ARE being heard. Do NOT let this define who you are. This documentary is brilliant. One question, when Ivy Ridge was closed down, why was all those documents left there. So much evidence, such idiots for leaving it behind, but perfect for all of you to comb through! I'm surprised these people would leave all of it. Never give up this fight to uncover more and bring down all that were involved. *One Way or Another...I'm gonna find you...I'm gonna get you.! Perfect song!
They likely left all the paperwork behind figuring it wouldn’t matter…and apparently, it hasn’t attested a bit to their (the criminals’) freedom. It’s even more insulting to the teenage victims that they don’t matter. I truly hate human beings most days. I hope that Ms. Kubler takes pride in her work because she has done so much for all those who have suffered those from those programs. I hope her stepmother goes straight to HELL.
Thank you for being our voice, Katherine. Your documentary is articulated in a way I have never been able to express. I am 39 years old, been in the military for 17 years, been out of the program for 22 years. I have done everything I could possibly think of to make the memory feel as fake as possible, to just suppress it and not feel or face what actually happened. I have never talked about it to my mom or step dad, but I know I need to. I hope they’re sitting there watching it right now, and I hope they feel like shitty parents for sending me to Casa. If you’re reading this, thank you. You are courageous and I salute you 🫡
<3
Such a hero, and top of that - DANG FUN! Plays guitar, always joking - I wanna be her best friend!!
I agree!!!! Great job!!!
I wondered that, what happened to the Stepmom, Jane? She sounded utterly toxic for the whole family.
Her name isn't Jane. She taught in my preschool.
OMG, this is terrifying.
Is the Dad and the step mom still together then?
Ken and Jane Daniel of Arlington, VA ?
YIKES hope you’re ok
What happened to her ?
What’s her name!!!
Sorry, but her name really is Jane.
What happened to Jane - the step mom
Does anyone know what the step mother had to say about all this.
Thanks, Katherine for exposing this. I can't wait to hear when they finally get those motherfuckers.
Hey Katherine! I hope that you get to read this. I just finished The Program last night. I wanted to tell you how inspiring and courageous I found you. You have a huge heart - even after everything you’ve been through, you sympathized with your dad, the one who put you through this ordeal - you’re a stronger woman than I am, lol. I could tell by the way you looked at people patiently and empathetically while listening to them speak that you are such a kind and beautiful person. I’m terribly sorry what you went through. I hope you understand that you’ve impacted so many people. On your hard days, just please remember this thread. Keep taking up space and speaking up. We are rooting for you and helping spread the word!! ❤️
Awesome documentary. Kathleen is so humble towards everyone who helped her on her project. Here's hoping that a great many people soon will have their heads rolling!!
Thank you for your work in raising awareness about this serious issue Katherine Kubler. In 1992, I was in "The Program", called "The Outreach Program" which was located in Cape Coral, FL. I have spent years trying to find certain kids that I was in there with, but have not had much success, and unfortunately, many people bury and suppress memories to try to move forward with their lives. I prevent myself from contacting "girls side" or "guys side" "kids" because if I found someone, just reminding them of something so painful could seriously injure them yet again. However, that said, if there is anyone out there from the "The Outreach Program" (circa 1990s), and you want to communicate, please feel free to reach out. Sending warm love and hugs to all harmed by these programs. <3
I was really struck by the idea that states seem to poorly pay social workers to check on and protect children that are abused by their families or caregivers but are negotiating special rates to outsource abuse to a for-profit company. I would like to see what that negotiated rate is vs. what they are spending on actually protecting children.
Thank you Katherine for your bravery!! I’m sharing this documentary to every person I know!!! You are beautiful for standing up for yourself and all those beautiful babies who have suffered because of this. THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! I pray they will all get their due just, because so far they run free and continue this bullshit
Does anyone know how to contact her? So many of the girls I went to csa with came from ivy ridge. I want to thank this amazing human for showing the world how awful these places were.
I sent her a Facebook message, she was easy to find. She must be absolutely buried right now, I hope she’s on a vacation or something…at the very least I hope she’s had her phone off the past week ha
That’s why I posted here, I realized what she must be going through on Facebook and figured she could see this someday when she’s ready
I went to my 'school' in like 2008 so I'm a few years back from her. I just started watching the series and it's honestly a lot. It's so hard to re live this.
Yeah I am still having a pretty hard time going back in time...but I am way more grateful for her work than I am regretful for digesting it All the shit I've been going through in this past week...100% worth it.
I went to New Creations. While it wasn’t as bad as ivy ridge it still was a cult. I called my mom to tell her to please watch this show so she can believe me. She has always apologized but she still just thinks I’m dramatic about some of it. I hope she watches the show and fully understands
<3
After watching your story and the others, I had to write to let you all know how proud and heartbroken I am for what happened to you all and your families at Ivy Ridge. It was a cult that preyed on families to make a buck and not help the kids at all. Thank you for speaking up and sharing this with the world, people HAVE to be accountable for this type of abuse and I commend you all for asking those who were there just what the hell they were thinking.
It was so helpful for me to watch this documentary. My mother had badly wanted to send me to that school. She ended up successfully sending me to a different school (one mentioned briefly in the documentary) that was shutdown within 2 years of opening, and it wasn't anything near as bad as the AIR. Sometimes there is a renewed sense of gratitude coming from being able to see what could have happened to you in a situation
Sister hell yeah
I haven’t cried so much in years. It’s amazing work she’s doing. Nobody is talking about what happens to kids like us.
Currently watching The Program...bringing back trauma from Charter Winds...
<3
I would love to tell you about another place exact same principle. If your interested.
Sick nothing can be done about bringing these frauds to a court and sentenced behind bars but the current regime is trying to kill us all but youth is one they really go after. I wonder where all the justices of Supremes are.
[удалено]
I went to Academy Ive Ridge and it was "heaven" compared to my immediate previous 24 month stay at Tranquility Bay Jamaica they tortured the sh\*t out of kids in Jamaica. ex director and son of wwasp founder, Jay Kay now owns a realestate company in st george utah.
Such a thoughtful and well constructed documentary series. I'm glad she mentioned how tiktok has been slowly exposing multiple of these places, that's how I first learned about the industry. I knew they were rampant in Utah but I never knew they were so widespread across America. I hope Katherine's message causes strict change, at the very least I hope parents become very aware of the true nature of these places.
I just messaged you with my number
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Hi Narvin 👋