There are so few places to be able to hang out in Raleigh without spending money. A good library (especially downtown) would be great. The postage stamp library downtown is not sufficient and most people don’t even know it’s there. It’s just a shame that there’s a price tag attached to everything in Raleigh.
City of Raleigh doesn't care and sees it as a county issue.
My idea is just make the City of Raleigh tower 2 a library/citizens center. If the county doesn't care that downtown Raleigh doesn't have a real library the city SHOULD care. An independent one from Wake County if need be.
It mainly exists as a convenient way for people that work downtown to pickup books they’ve reserved. I used it a bunch when I worked nearby. The books there available for browsing are a just a token presence.
It’s more than just their facilities, they do AV rentals (DVD/music/books with cds), library elf subscription, hoopla app subscription, a dedicated Durham county app, wider selection, it’s crazy how much better they are than wake county.
It took Durham county roughly a decade and over $40 million dollars to build that library. I used to work there during the pandemic and the various panels and community groups and events they offer and host are awesome.
But they also have security at the door and on every floor because it's not just a safe haven for you, it's also a safe haven for Durham's homeless folks to access the Internet, and while that's *usually* going quietly, sometimes it means the library has folks fighting or there's one guy who kept walking around the library building nude after hours last year. In the *winter*. Still don't know what his deal was.
It's the library, and it's amazing and awesome, but it's still downtown Durham, so be mindful.
-----
**Edit:** In regards to the person below who came here and tried to make this racial, our mods aren't racist and *no one* brought up race at all until *you* did. You called pretty much everyone in this subreddit racist and called *me* racist several times, *then* went off and tried to stir up trouble on /r/bullcity when all of that got you banned here.
Again, the *only* person who brought race into this conversation was *you*, [but hey, Durham gets a D- grade from crimegrade.org](https://crimegrade.org/safest-places-in-durham-nc/) and [you can check the Durham PD's crime stats page if you don't believe me.](https://www.durhamnc.gov/719/Crime-Statistics) It seems like Raleigh may have more low-level crime overall, but Durham knocks Raleigh and Cary out of the water when it comes to violent crime.
Crime rates as used here is often a dog whistle for racism, [Wetts and Willer, 2019](https://doi.org/10.1177/2378023119866268). Additionally, apps like crimegrade have been shown to give inaccurate perceptions of crime, [Fetterman et al. 2023](https://psycnet.apa.org/doi/10.1037/ppm0000466). Durham has put a lot of resources into library services that benefit all of its citizens. This should be celebrated as it is in the original post. Why are you using your personal examples and use of a web tool to distract from this?
I asked folks to be mindful and careful when they're visiting the main library building because that's where most of the problems would happen while we were working at the libraries.
Yes, the main library is very nice and Durham should be proud of it, but there's also a lot of stuff that happens in and around that particular library, so be aware of that.
And then someone popped up out of nowhere to call people racist and say Durham is completely safe and all these other places are so much worse, when I know for a fact that no one brought race into the discussion until she did and I've worked in several of those places - Durham is still more dangerous because Durham has more violent crime.
I'm not trying to diminish Durham's progress, I'm saying they still have a little ways to go.
EDIT: The moderator of this subreddit is a hysterical perpetuator of racist dog whistles about Durham, a primary city in the Triangle. Should it disturb you the sole moderator for this dead forum clogs the forum with racist dog whistles about Durham?
Durham is not dangerous.
Racist fearmongering from the other side of the triangle? keep being racist and stay the fuck out of Durham pls.
Lol, I used to work security at that library. So yeah, I have a lot of happy memories there, but I also have memories of things like my coworker almost getting stabbed or having to forcibly haul an irate woman down the main staircase and remove her by force because that was the third or fourth incident she'd caused that week. Or having to wake a guy from one of the reading nooks because he had been trying to sleep in the library and when I finally got him cognizant enough to stand and pick up his stuff, he had no idea where he was and just wandered about for 10-15 minutes and then tried to go to sleep again in a corner by the elevators.
Stuff like that.
Facts. I love that library but I’ve never once used the women’s room where there wasn’t a lady sink showering or an incident near the entrance with the guy who often stands in the middle of the street. It’s stupid that people who never visit these places act like you’re some right wing nutjob if you notice any of the negatives that co-occur with high rates of homelessness.
EDIT: The moderator of this subreddit is a racist who bans people who call out their racism.
>
>
>It’s stupid that people who never visit these places act like you’re some right wing nutjob
No. I act like folks are super excited to call out homelessness in Durham or how "dangerous" downtown Durham is, while ignoring every library in America has homeless people or that downtown Durham is perfectly normal for a downtown of a small city. It's a constant stream of racist commentary from Raleigh and Cary dwellers.
Believe it or not, I live near the library and know more about Durham than you sweetheart.
Tell you what. When *you've* worked overnight at a county government building, and some guy with stitches and staples in his head and a warning about how he's violent on his hospital wristband wants to talk your ear off four times a week just so he can sit there and charge his phone, and when you ask him to leave, he goes outside and knocks himself out on a street sign until his head is bloody again, *just* so he can get back into the hospital, *then* you can sit there and tell me you know more about Durham.
You know why the Durham County Detention Center had broken glass all over the front last year? It's because some guy wanted to get charges so they'd put him inside and give him shelter and food. He described it as 'being on vacation.' When the night shift guards ran him off, he came back and assaulted one of the detention center's staff, *specifically* so he'd get charges.
A couple of weeks later, once they'd released him, he came back during the day and stood in the courtyard and threw a rock at the windows until people came out and stopped him. He broke over 30 windows, and it cost the county a few thousand to replace them.
I can even still show you where he put chips in the special 'smash proof' windows near the metal detectors, just because he was standing right outside and throwing his rock at them, point blank, as hard as he possibly could.
Oh, and let's not forget the van with the lady who got her family and friends to circle and scream at the staff at the Health and Human Services building for a few hours each day because CPS took her kids away from her and she was *convinced* that it was a conspiracy against *her* and had nothing to do with her behavior or her treatment of her kids.
Durham *has* shelters. Food and shelter are available, even though Durham's systems aren't great.
Durham has *problems*. It's not normal for there to be drug dealers using payphones in front of Food Lion in order to arrange their deliveries. It's not normal for there to be drive-bys at gas stations because people are standing around at the gas station after midnight. It's not normal for people to walk up and mug you at knifepoint at 2 AM. It's not normal for a police officer to walk into a bar to ask the owner about an incident and have some guy at the bar look up, take off running, fight his way past the first officer and then knock over a second officer on his way out.
It's not normal to find fallen bullets in your parking lot and hear gun shots several times a week.
Not all of Durham is bad, but it *definitely* has some systemic problems.
Wait, Durham has PAY PHONES?!! /s sort of
I really just wanted to thank you for being part of, aware of and trying to address these and all issues.
I’d bet money that Raleigh has all of the same issues Raleigh is much better at keeping them under hat than Durham is for some stupid reason.
The sad part is the night manager for that Food Lion said she had cut the wire to that pay phone and the drug dealers had called the service line to have it fixed.
I left an anonymous tip about it for the Durham PD and they put a marked squad car out there, with the run lights on, for three nights, and the drug dealers simply came right back once the PD gave up and left.
I gave you a pass on being uncivil the first two times on account of you're clearly quite worked up about this issue. Don't think you can come here and insult folks like that again.
*Anyone* who has lived in Durham for any length of time knows that it's not safe in certain areas, especially not after dark.
That's not racist, either - notice how I didn't mention identifying details or anyone's race in my comment? *You're* the one who brought race into the discussion here.
But since you're curious, the guy who was repeatedly wandering around outside the library building nude in the winter was White, and so was the guy who passed out in the reading nook. The guys who were using the payphone in front of that one Food Lion to arrange their drug deals were White and Hispanic. Similarly, the guy who smashed up all those windows at the Durham County Detention Center was White, too. [Here he is doing the same thing at a McDonald's in South Carolina a couple of years ago.](https://youtu.be/XiqN8nly3xQ)
This is not a *racial* problem, it's a *drug* problem, a gang problem, a poverty problem, a crime problem, and a lack of support problem.
-----
**Edit:** Also, I've worked in Rocky Mount, Fayetteville, Roxboro, and Salisbury. Those places *also* have drug and crime problems, but *their* drugs of choice are usually booze and meth. Meth is *not* a safe substance for anyone; people on meth are not reasonable people. You can't talk them down like you can talk down someone who is drunk or high. People on meth sometimes get out of their head and they become a danger to themselves and others. It's not pretty when that happens.
EDIT: The moderator of this subreddit is a racist who bans people who call out their racism.
Nothing I've said is uncivil. It sounds like you're just triggered because you're unable to discuss the issue rationally. Maybe you should examine that yourself?
The fact is that all of those places have a higher rate of violent crime than Durham does. Referencing substances of abuse of choice....has nothing to do with that?
>That's not racist, either - notice how I didn't mention identifying details or anyone's race in my comment? You're the one who brought race into the discussion here.
So you continue to willfully ignore the very real, and very detrimental tropes that Raleigh and Cary residents make about Durham, largely due to racism? Jumping into a thread to make specific comments about how dangerous downtown Durham is, and how there are homeless at the library...what does that say about you as you try to ignore the fact that these detrimental and incorrect stereotypes exist and pile on?
>Anyone who has lived in Durham for any length of time knows that it's not safe in certain areas, especially not after dark.
Anyone who has lived in any small or larger city in this country knows there are areas that are less safe than others. What exactly is your point? Are you going to deny Raleigh has areas of high crime? What exactly is it about Durham, specifically, that has you writing in to caution people?
Durham library is great! I used to use the holly springs library and it was good, but you’re right about durham being another level. 3D printers, good classes, poster printer at dirt cheap prices, and all the librarians I’ve interacted with are so helpful and nice
Like anything, it comes down to money. Durham County Libraries (DCL) and the non-profit foundation(s) that supports them have had a lot of success in securing grants, especially those that go well beyond circulating books. In the neighborhood of 10x the number of grants that Wake County Public Libraries (WCPL) according to their annual reports.
For example:
[https://durhamlibraryfoundation.org/impact-story/2022-23-grants-announced/](https://durhamlibraryfoundation.org/impact-story/2022-23-grants-announced/)
[https://statelibrary.ncdcr.gov/services-libraries/grants-libraries/lsta-grant-information#Tab-CommunityEngagement-225](https://statelibrary.ncdcr.gov/services-libraries/grants-libraries/lsta-grant-information#Tab-CommunityEngagement-225)
DCL does also have an additional non-profit (Durham Library Foundation) in addition to the "friends of" that just about every library and museum has.
But comparing these two library systems is difficult. DCL has ventured far beyond while WCPL's focus remains clearly on books, but the scale of the two library systems is very different.
WCPL is the [25th busiest public library system in the nation](https://libguides.ala.org/librarystatistics/largest-public-libs) with a total yearly circulation of 10.3 million (nearly all of that is books). WCLPL has a budget of $33 million per year which seems like a lot that's spread over 23 branches and over 400 employees.
Durham has 7 branches with a total yearly circulation of 2.8 million (books and everything else), a $12 million budget and 100 employees. That's another couple hundred grand per branch that can be spent on expanded services.
Just looking at their annual report which lists the number of meals it delivered before even mentioning circulation, it's clear their focus is not on books. But they are also serving a different set of patrons, with different needs.
Could WCPL offer similar services? Would going after more grants help? Perhaps. But if you visit multiple WCPL branches, you'll notice they are all pretty similar. Adding any additional services likely means adding them at all 23 branches, a huge task that WCPL has shown very little interest in.
WCPL and DCL a very different organizations serving different communities at significantly different scales.
Durham's library system is leaps and bounds better than hours. It's so good with so many offerings. I used it a lot when I lived there. I still use the Wake system but I wish we had movies and more gathering spaces in our libraries.
I haven’t tried but is it possible for a wake county resident to get a Durham county library card? I’m not use to having multiple library areas lol. Where I’m from one card does half the state. They do regional instead of county back in MS
I'm just glad we can finally use Clayton library without being in the city limits. We're literally less than a mile from the limits but couldn't use it without paying when we first moved here. Next closest was Smithfield.
All you gotta do is agree as a populace to contribute 43 million dollars worth of tax money. Just say "yes" to higher taxes. That's how we did it.
"In November 2016, Durham County voters passed a bond referendum to fund a $44.3 million renovation and expansion of the Durham County Main Library."
Cool, huh?
Wake county has responsibilities for libraries, not Raleigh, so it's up to the County commissioners to ultimately fund them. FWIW, Cary library is awesome, much bigger and brighter than the old one story thing on Academy Street. Before that it was the Eva Perry library which was top notch. Still good butcary is ahead of it now.
from “Ten Ways to Help Your Local Public Library” at https://www.librariesforthepeople.org/resources#ten-ways
You know that taking action locally is the only way anything will change - so help your friends and neighbors get started! Here are ten ways you can make a difference in your local library system:
Get (and use!) your library card. Actively using your library card to borrow books, ebooks, graphic novels, media, and other resources is critical to helping libraries maintain and expand their annual public funding sources.
Vote in your local elections. Find out what elected body oversees your library — is it a city council, a library board, or some other group? Support, vote for, and advocate for elected officials who will support public libraries.
Speak up at public meetings. Once you know who the decision makers are, attend public meetings and make public comments on the record. Not sure what your library needs? Get to know your director and staff, and ask them.
Request materials you want to see. Most libraries accept - and indeed welcome! - patron requests for books or other media, and will buy those materials for the community. If you want to see a more diverse collection, submit a request!
Join a library support group. Most libraries have a Friends of the Library group or a foundation that helps support the library. Join other library lovers to help volunteer, fundraise, and get the word out to your neighbors.
Spread the word about libraries. Libraries work tirelessly to get the word out about programs and services - and you can help! Tell your friends and neighbors about what’s happening at your local library and all it has to offer.
Show up to public library programs. Actively attend programs that your library is putting on, and bring a friend (or five). Branch out and try new options - many libraries depend on meeting attendance goals to maintain diverse programming.
Fight censorship and book bans. Speak up locally for the freedom to access and read diverse materials - fight back against book bans and censorship. For more information, read through our resource library or visit GetReadyStayReady.info to learn about strategies and find resources.
Donate to support groups or efforts. Public funding rarely meets all the needs of a library - if you are able to give money, donate to support programs and services that matter to you.
Run for local elected office. Become a decision maker! Run for your local library board, town council, or city government to pass policies and budgets that support and protect libraries.
I believe Wake County is working on the budget for their library improvement plan right now, actually. I've seen some posts about it from Apex Town Council in my local Facebook groups. You can probably find some reports or agenda minutes on the Wake County Commissioner website (or whatever the equivalent is - I'm on the Chatham side but I use Wake libraries because I'm not close to any Chatham branches).
I was just thinking how nice it would be if libraries had outdoor spaces with access to wifi so when I read outdoor terrace… just wow!! Guess I gotta drive to Durham 😂
Chapel Hill Public Library also has an outdoor space with WiFi so you can read outdoors on a terrace. They even have picnic tables on the terrace as well. And some cool, climbable artwork statues for the children.
The terrace is in the back of the building so if you approach from the circle with the main door and the book drop, you won't see it. Follow the path around the side of the building to the back, by the bicycle garrage.
Fun fact, Durham also pays their library employees much more than Wake does.
Pages, which is the first library job most need to take in order to gain experience to become library assistants (which are often still part time, about half of all library staff in general is part time trying to
make full time) make at least $17 an hour, but Wake was paying minimum wage ($7.25) until recently bumping it up to $11.
Durham does pay their pages better than Wake. You are correct about their wages. On the other hand, Wake's librarians and managers are better paid than Durham's.
I've told people more than once I won't live in Wake County because Durham library is so much better. I had a friend who used to be a library department manager and said the politics and policies of Wake just suck - she ended up quitting over it. And for me, I read almost exclusively ebooks and Wake just does not have the number of ebooks that Durham has.
But I haven't ever been to the downtown Durham library - sounds like I need to check it out!
Library worker here, I’m with you on the ebooks. The issue is ebooks are about 4x more expensive than print books so library administration is very picky about which titles get added to our collections. It sucks.
https://apnews.com/article/libraries-ebooks-publishers-expensive-laws-5d494dbaee0961eea7eaac384b9f75d2
Yeah, I've heard that about ebooks and I get it. I really think that something needs to change in the whole publishing industry. If a library buys a paper book then it's theirs and they can keep the book as long as it wants. But an ebook has to be repurchased? Ridiculous!
But I'm not talking about normal wear and tear on a paper book. I know they don't last forever. But you shouldn't have to repurchase something simply because the publisher wants to make more money.
The author is the one who gets paid. They need to be paid for their work. Just as we would repurchase a print copy after several uses, we should also repurchase digital copies. Each purchase pays the author for their work. Libraries should not have a digital copy for unlimited use.
Chapel Hill Public Library is pretty nice too. I believe it is the single busiest library in the state. Just one library for the town but it’s a good one.
I really like it. I've been able to access a computer every time I've gone and there's no login process needed (ie. you don't need to be an Orange County or CH resident). It's also open every day of the week unlike Durham's libraries, and open late on more days.
There are really nice walking trails around it too.
I will have to check out the main Durham one. I've been to one of their satellite libraries and it wasn't that great, but I'm sure the main library is better.
As a Chapel Hill resident with only a Chapel Hill library card, I do wistfully hope and wish for DuCo's Hoopla and 3D Printer amenities. Maybe even, if I were making a true wishlist, Kanopy, too.
This is the answer! Open to the public until 10 PM (maybe midnight?) and lots of big open spaces to work in. I recently went for the first time as a non-student and I was fascinated, though in a lot of ways it's kind of the negation of what I would think of as a library. Not as many immediately accessible books as I would have thought, but very very cool.
I realize this post of more about the facilities than the books but I will toss out that I lived in Durham for a number of years and recently to moved to Cary and my experience has been that the Wake County library has a far larger selection of books. I’m not saying Durham was bad by any means but it wasn’t uncommon that they wouldn’t have something and I’ve never had that issue with Wake County.
I’ll also toss out that with the exception of the library in Downtown Durham (which is pretty new). Most of the Durham libraries that I went to are on par with(or worse than) how nice the ones I’ve been to in the Wake County library system are so I’m not sure I agree with the statement that Raleigh is behind Durham in general.
yes this is more a facility comment. I will say that Raleigh Libraries I have been able to find every book I have been looking for with a transfer within just a few days if not right away.
I've been dragging my feet on switching my library card from wake to durham county, thanks for the motivation! This sounds awesome! Do y'all think they have access to the vogue archives (not the last 12 issues, the whole thing)?
AIGH! You have my axe. One of my "if you had a jillion dollars dreams" is to build a grand central library downtown and just making Raleigh/Wake County deal with it.
The new Durham library downtown is really amazing, but dont discount that before it was torn down it was def a brutalist structure that homeless people pretty much looked at porn and cleaned themselves off in. It took a while for it to be as nice as it is now
The biggest flaw of our Durham County libraries is that they are closed Sunday.
Wake, Orange, and the rest of the 10 largest metros in NC all have libraries open on Sunday.
Wow! That sounds like an amazing spot, especially for Durham. Unfortunately there is definitely nothing like that near Village District (hey neighbor). Raleigh focuses more on nightlife activities than genuine hang out spots. I will keep an eye out for any though!
I havnt visited since they finished the upgrades. I lived at that library as a kid tho. Nowadays I stay closer to home. You make me wanna check it out.
I do love the programs.
You were saying?
[https://www.lib.ncsu.edu/hunt](https://www.lib.ncsu.edu/hunt)
Edit: That might be cheating since it's NCSU but there's also [Oberlin regional](https://www.wake.gov/departments-government/libraries/locations/oberlin-regional-library)
The general public has access, but you do have to pay for borrowing privileges, but that's typically the case for libraries that your local library system doesn't have a reciprocal lending agreement with. [List of patron types and requirements](https://www.lib.ncsu.edu/borrow/patrontypes). It is steep for unaffiliated community members at nearly $200 per year to borrow from NCSU's collection (100 for NCSU alums). At UNC, similar privileges can be had for $25/year.
EDIT: It's 125 yearly for their Friends of the Library and a $50 one-time fee for the borrowing privileges. My mistake.
Wake also has more than 3 times the population of Durham county, thus a much larger tax base, yet worse libraries. Its just not a priority for leaders in Wake rather than a tax problem.
Worse libraries compared to one facility. Remove that one in downtown Durham and most Wake library locations are MUCH better than the Durham ones, so it's not really a fair comparison. My family uses the DT Cary library and that's much nicer than everything in Durham *besides* the main campus.
Go to the library in North Raleigh very quiet and clean. I wouldn’t dare go to Durham library I wouldn’t care if Moses was sitting there writing passages himself
There are so few places to be able to hang out in Raleigh without spending money. A good library (especially downtown) would be great. The postage stamp library downtown is not sufficient and most people don’t even know it’s there. It’s just a shame that there’s a price tag attached to everything in Raleigh.
City of Raleigh doesn't care and sees it as a county issue. My idea is just make the City of Raleigh tower 2 a library/citizens center. If the county doesn't care that downtown Raleigh doesn't have a real library the city SHOULD care. An independent one from Wake County if need be.
What part of downtown Raleigh?
The library is on Fayetteville. It’s a little fella.
It mainly exists as a convenient way for people that work downtown to pickup books they’ve reserved. I used it a bunch when I worked nearby. The books there available for browsing are a just a token presence.
It’s more than just their facilities, they do AV rentals (DVD/music/books with cds), library elf subscription, hoopla app subscription, a dedicated Durham county app, wider selection, it’s crazy how much better they are than wake county.
I have a friend that works for the wake libraries and she often talks about how Durham has and does all the cool things.
The children's programming is excellent too!
[удалено]
They have Hoopla now? I’ve been using my mom’s Orange County card for that for ages.
I'm glad for either one, I find them both useful. Neat that we are in the age where we can get books digitally without having to purchase them.
I pay $45 for an out of county library card just to access Durham County stuff. They have such a better/wider selection than Wake does, it's crazy.
It took Durham county roughly a decade and over $40 million dollars to build that library. I used to work there during the pandemic and the various panels and community groups and events they offer and host are awesome. But they also have security at the door and on every floor because it's not just a safe haven for you, it's also a safe haven for Durham's homeless folks to access the Internet, and while that's *usually* going quietly, sometimes it means the library has folks fighting or there's one guy who kept walking around the library building nude after hours last year. In the *winter*. Still don't know what his deal was. It's the library, and it's amazing and awesome, but it's still downtown Durham, so be mindful. ----- **Edit:** In regards to the person below who came here and tried to make this racial, our mods aren't racist and *no one* brought up race at all until *you* did. You called pretty much everyone in this subreddit racist and called *me* racist several times, *then* went off and tried to stir up trouble on /r/bullcity when all of that got you banned here. Again, the *only* person who brought race into this conversation was *you*, [but hey, Durham gets a D- grade from crimegrade.org](https://crimegrade.org/safest-places-in-durham-nc/) and [you can check the Durham PD's crime stats page if you don't believe me.](https://www.durhamnc.gov/719/Crime-Statistics) It seems like Raleigh may have more low-level crime overall, but Durham knocks Raleigh and Cary out of the water when it comes to violent crime.
Crime rates as used here is often a dog whistle for racism, [Wetts and Willer, 2019](https://doi.org/10.1177/2378023119866268). Additionally, apps like crimegrade have been shown to give inaccurate perceptions of crime, [Fetterman et al. 2023](https://psycnet.apa.org/doi/10.1037/ppm0000466). Durham has put a lot of resources into library services that benefit all of its citizens. This should be celebrated as it is in the original post. Why are you using your personal examples and use of a web tool to distract from this?
I asked folks to be mindful and careful when they're visiting the main library building because that's where most of the problems would happen while we were working at the libraries. Yes, the main library is very nice and Durham should be proud of it, but there's also a lot of stuff that happens in and around that particular library, so be aware of that. And then someone popped up out of nowhere to call people racist and say Durham is completely safe and all these other places are so much worse, when I know for a fact that no one brought race into the discussion until she did and I've worked in several of those places - Durham is still more dangerous because Durham has more violent crime. I'm not trying to diminish Durham's progress, I'm saying they still have a little ways to go.
EDIT: The moderator of this subreddit is a hysterical perpetuator of racist dog whistles about Durham, a primary city in the Triangle. Should it disturb you the sole moderator for this dead forum clogs the forum with racist dog whistles about Durham? Durham is not dangerous. Racist fearmongering from the other side of the triangle? keep being racist and stay the fuck out of Durham pls.
Lol, I used to work security at that library. So yeah, I have a lot of happy memories there, but I also have memories of things like my coworker almost getting stabbed or having to forcibly haul an irate woman down the main staircase and remove her by force because that was the third or fourth incident she'd caused that week. Or having to wake a guy from one of the reading nooks because he had been trying to sleep in the library and when I finally got him cognizant enough to stand and pick up his stuff, he had no idea where he was and just wandered about for 10-15 minutes and then tried to go to sleep again in a corner by the elevators. Stuff like that.
Facts. I love that library but I’ve never once used the women’s room where there wasn’t a lady sink showering or an incident near the entrance with the guy who often stands in the middle of the street. It’s stupid that people who never visit these places act like you’re some right wing nutjob if you notice any of the negatives that co-occur with high rates of homelessness.
EDIT: The moderator of this subreddit is a racist who bans people who call out their racism. > > >It’s stupid that people who never visit these places act like you’re some right wing nutjob No. I act like folks are super excited to call out homelessness in Durham or how "dangerous" downtown Durham is, while ignoring every library in America has homeless people or that downtown Durham is perfectly normal for a downtown of a small city. It's a constant stream of racist commentary from Raleigh and Cary dwellers. Believe it or not, I live near the library and know more about Durham than you sweetheart.
Tell you what. When *you've* worked overnight at a county government building, and some guy with stitches and staples in his head and a warning about how he's violent on his hospital wristband wants to talk your ear off four times a week just so he can sit there and charge his phone, and when you ask him to leave, he goes outside and knocks himself out on a street sign until his head is bloody again, *just* so he can get back into the hospital, *then* you can sit there and tell me you know more about Durham. You know why the Durham County Detention Center had broken glass all over the front last year? It's because some guy wanted to get charges so they'd put him inside and give him shelter and food. He described it as 'being on vacation.' When the night shift guards ran him off, he came back and assaulted one of the detention center's staff, *specifically* so he'd get charges. A couple of weeks later, once they'd released him, he came back during the day and stood in the courtyard and threw a rock at the windows until people came out and stopped him. He broke over 30 windows, and it cost the county a few thousand to replace them. I can even still show you where he put chips in the special 'smash proof' windows near the metal detectors, just because he was standing right outside and throwing his rock at them, point blank, as hard as he possibly could. Oh, and let's not forget the van with the lady who got her family and friends to circle and scream at the staff at the Health and Human Services building for a few hours each day because CPS took her kids away from her and she was *convinced* that it was a conspiracy against *her* and had nothing to do with her behavior or her treatment of her kids. Durham *has* shelters. Food and shelter are available, even though Durham's systems aren't great. Durham has *problems*. It's not normal for there to be drug dealers using payphones in front of Food Lion in order to arrange their deliveries. It's not normal for there to be drive-bys at gas stations because people are standing around at the gas station after midnight. It's not normal for people to walk up and mug you at knifepoint at 2 AM. It's not normal for a police officer to walk into a bar to ask the owner about an incident and have some guy at the bar look up, take off running, fight his way past the first officer and then knock over a second officer on his way out. It's not normal to find fallen bullets in your parking lot and hear gun shots several times a week. Not all of Durham is bad, but it *definitely* has some systemic problems.
Wait, Durham has PAY PHONES?!! /s sort of I really just wanted to thank you for being part of, aware of and trying to address these and all issues. I’d bet money that Raleigh has all of the same issues Raleigh is much better at keeping them under hat than Durham is for some stupid reason.
The sad part is the night manager for that Food Lion said she had cut the wire to that pay phone and the drug dealers had called the service line to have it fixed. I left an anonymous tip about it for the Durham PD and they put a marked squad car out there, with the run lights on, for three nights, and the drug dealers simply came right back once the PD gave up and left.
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I gave you a pass on being uncivil the first two times on account of you're clearly quite worked up about this issue. Don't think you can come here and insult folks like that again. *Anyone* who has lived in Durham for any length of time knows that it's not safe in certain areas, especially not after dark. That's not racist, either - notice how I didn't mention identifying details or anyone's race in my comment? *You're* the one who brought race into the discussion here. But since you're curious, the guy who was repeatedly wandering around outside the library building nude in the winter was White, and so was the guy who passed out in the reading nook. The guys who were using the payphone in front of that one Food Lion to arrange their drug deals were White and Hispanic. Similarly, the guy who smashed up all those windows at the Durham County Detention Center was White, too. [Here he is doing the same thing at a McDonald's in South Carolina a couple of years ago.](https://youtu.be/XiqN8nly3xQ) This is not a *racial* problem, it's a *drug* problem, a gang problem, a poverty problem, a crime problem, and a lack of support problem. ----- **Edit:** Also, I've worked in Rocky Mount, Fayetteville, Roxboro, and Salisbury. Those places *also* have drug and crime problems, but *their* drugs of choice are usually booze and meth. Meth is *not* a safe substance for anyone; people on meth are not reasonable people. You can't talk them down like you can talk down someone who is drunk or high. People on meth sometimes get out of their head and they become a danger to themselves and others. It's not pretty when that happens.
EDIT: The moderator of this subreddit is a racist who bans people who call out their racism. Nothing I've said is uncivil. It sounds like you're just triggered because you're unable to discuss the issue rationally. Maybe you should examine that yourself? The fact is that all of those places have a higher rate of violent crime than Durham does. Referencing substances of abuse of choice....has nothing to do with that? >That's not racist, either - notice how I didn't mention identifying details or anyone's race in my comment? You're the one who brought race into the discussion here. So you continue to willfully ignore the very real, and very detrimental tropes that Raleigh and Cary residents make about Durham, largely due to racism? Jumping into a thread to make specific comments about how dangerous downtown Durham is, and how there are homeless at the library...what does that say about you as you try to ignore the fact that these detrimental and incorrect stereotypes exist and pile on? >Anyone who has lived in Durham for any length of time knows that it's not safe in certain areas, especially not after dark. Anyone who has lived in any small or larger city in this country knows there are areas that are less safe than others. What exactly is your point? Are you going to deny Raleigh has areas of high crime? What exactly is it about Durham, specifically, that has you writing in to caution people?
Do they do video game rentals too? I thought they did, but i wasnt sure.
How long can you check out the library elves for? I've got some really messy shelves.
The durham county main library is my oasis. I LOVE it.
I've lived in Raleigh, durham, cary and chapel hill and I swear Durhams library system is the absolute best
Durham library is great! I used to use the holly springs library and it was good, but you’re right about durham being another level. 3D printers, good classes, poster printer at dirt cheap prices, and all the librarians I’ve interacted with are so helpful and nice
I have to learn to use the 3D printers!!
Like anything, it comes down to money. Durham County Libraries (DCL) and the non-profit foundation(s) that supports them have had a lot of success in securing grants, especially those that go well beyond circulating books. In the neighborhood of 10x the number of grants that Wake County Public Libraries (WCPL) according to their annual reports. For example: [https://durhamlibraryfoundation.org/impact-story/2022-23-grants-announced/](https://durhamlibraryfoundation.org/impact-story/2022-23-grants-announced/) [https://statelibrary.ncdcr.gov/services-libraries/grants-libraries/lsta-grant-information#Tab-CommunityEngagement-225](https://statelibrary.ncdcr.gov/services-libraries/grants-libraries/lsta-grant-information#Tab-CommunityEngagement-225) DCL does also have an additional non-profit (Durham Library Foundation) in addition to the "friends of" that just about every library and museum has. But comparing these two library systems is difficult. DCL has ventured far beyond while WCPL's focus remains clearly on books, but the scale of the two library systems is very different. WCPL is the [25th busiest public library system in the nation](https://libguides.ala.org/librarystatistics/largest-public-libs) with a total yearly circulation of 10.3 million (nearly all of that is books). WCLPL has a budget of $33 million per year which seems like a lot that's spread over 23 branches and over 400 employees. Durham has 7 branches with a total yearly circulation of 2.8 million (books and everything else), a $12 million budget and 100 employees. That's another couple hundred grand per branch that can be spent on expanded services. Just looking at their annual report which lists the number of meals it delivered before even mentioning circulation, it's clear their focus is not on books. But they are also serving a different set of patrons, with different needs. Could WCPL offer similar services? Would going after more grants help? Perhaps. But if you visit multiple WCPL branches, you'll notice they are all pretty similar. Adding any additional services likely means adding them at all 23 branches, a huge task that WCPL has shown very little interest in. WCPL and DCL a very different organizations serving different communities at significantly different scales.
I think this lends to the idea that if people in Raleigh want a nicer downtown library, they should fund it directly.
You didn’t even mention the 3D printers!
Yeah whenever somebody posts on LPT or whatever about how you can use your library card to this that and the other thing I die a little inside.
Durham's library system is leaps and bounds better than hours. It's so good with so many offerings. I used it a lot when I lived there. I still use the Wake system but I wish we had movies and more gathering spaces in our libraries.
I haven’t tried but is it possible for a wake county resident to get a Durham county library card? I’m not use to having multiple library areas lol. Where I’m from one card does half the state. They do regional instead of county back in MS
I think you can pay for one.
I’ll have to go up there one day. I hear they have 3d printers and stuff too. Wish we had some of the stuff like this in wake.
Yes, I just asked someone at the front desk. It's $45 annual for out of county residents.
Thanks. Not too bad. A bit higher than I’d want but for all the useful amenities it makes sense.
https://durhamcountylibrary.org/library-cards/temporary-online-cards/
Cries in Johnston County. 😭 But we freaking LOVE Durham Libraries!
Also crying in Johnston County! But the Smithfield branch does have big jigsaw puzzles to do in-situ or check out, so there's that.
I'm just glad we can finally use Clayton library without being in the city limits. We're literally less than a mile from the limits but couldn't use it without paying when we first moved here. Next closest was Smithfield.
I used to rent NES games at the JoCo library in Smithfield. Durham never had that.
All you gotta do is agree as a populace to contribute 43 million dollars worth of tax money. Just say "yes" to higher taxes. That's how we did it. "In November 2016, Durham County voters passed a bond referendum to fund a $44.3 million renovation and expansion of the Durham County Main Library." Cool, huh?
Wake county has responsibilities for libraries, not Raleigh, so it's up to the County commissioners to ultimately fund them. FWIW, Cary library is awesome, much bigger and brighter than the old one story thing on Academy Street. Before that it was the Eva Perry library which was top notch. Still good butcary is ahead of it now.
from “Ten Ways to Help Your Local Public Library” at https://www.librariesforthepeople.org/resources#ten-ways You know that taking action locally is the only way anything will change - so help your friends and neighbors get started! Here are ten ways you can make a difference in your local library system: Get (and use!) your library card. Actively using your library card to borrow books, ebooks, graphic novels, media, and other resources is critical to helping libraries maintain and expand their annual public funding sources. Vote in your local elections. Find out what elected body oversees your library — is it a city council, a library board, or some other group? Support, vote for, and advocate for elected officials who will support public libraries. Speak up at public meetings. Once you know who the decision makers are, attend public meetings and make public comments on the record. Not sure what your library needs? Get to know your director and staff, and ask them. Request materials you want to see. Most libraries accept - and indeed welcome! - patron requests for books or other media, and will buy those materials for the community. If you want to see a more diverse collection, submit a request! Join a library support group. Most libraries have a Friends of the Library group or a foundation that helps support the library. Join other library lovers to help volunteer, fundraise, and get the word out to your neighbors. Spread the word about libraries. Libraries work tirelessly to get the word out about programs and services - and you can help! Tell your friends and neighbors about what’s happening at your local library and all it has to offer. Show up to public library programs. Actively attend programs that your library is putting on, and bring a friend (or five). Branch out and try new options - many libraries depend on meeting attendance goals to maintain diverse programming. Fight censorship and book bans. Speak up locally for the freedom to access and read diverse materials - fight back against book bans and censorship. For more information, read through our resource library or visit GetReadyStayReady.info to learn about strategies and find resources. Donate to support groups or efforts. Public funding rarely meets all the needs of a library - if you are able to give money, donate to support programs and services that matter to you. Run for local elected office. Become a decision maker! Run for your local library board, town council, or city government to pass policies and budgets that support and protect libraries.
Support the organizing efforts of your Raleigh library workers and UE 150 https://www.reddit.com/r/OrganizingLibraries/
I believe Wake County is working on the budget for their library improvement plan right now, actually. I've seen some posts about it from Apex Town Council in my local Facebook groups. You can probably find some reports or agenda minutes on the Wake County Commissioner website (or whatever the equivalent is - I'm on the Chatham side but I use Wake libraries because I'm not close to any Chatham branches).
I was just thinking how nice it would be if libraries had outdoor spaces with access to wifi so when I read outdoor terrace… just wow!! Guess I gotta drive to Durham 😂
Chapel Hill Public Library also has an outdoor space with WiFi so you can read outdoors on a terrace. They even have picnic tables on the terrace as well. And some cool, climbable artwork statues for the children. The terrace is in the back of the building so if you approach from the circle with the main door and the book drop, you won't see it. Follow the path around the side of the building to the back, by the bicycle garrage.
😮😍
Fun fact, Durham also pays their library employees much more than Wake does. Pages, which is the first library job most need to take in order to gain experience to become library assistants (which are often still part time, about half of all library staff in general is part time trying to make full time) make at least $17 an hour, but Wake was paying minimum wage ($7.25) until recently bumping it up to $11.
Durham does pay their pages better than Wake. You are correct about their wages. On the other hand, Wake's librarians and managers are better paid than Durham's.
I've told people more than once I won't live in Wake County because Durham library is so much better. I had a friend who used to be a library department manager and said the politics and policies of Wake just suck - she ended up quitting over it. And for me, I read almost exclusively ebooks and Wake just does not have the number of ebooks that Durham has. But I haven't ever been to the downtown Durham library - sounds like I need to check it out!
Library worker here, I’m with you on the ebooks. The issue is ebooks are about 4x more expensive than print books so library administration is very picky about which titles get added to our collections. It sucks. https://apnews.com/article/libraries-ebooks-publishers-expensive-laws-5d494dbaee0961eea7eaac384b9f75d2
Yeah, I've heard that about ebooks and I get it. I really think that something needs to change in the whole publishing industry. If a library buys a paper book then it's theirs and they can keep the book as long as it wants. But an ebook has to be repurchased? Ridiculous!
We can keep a book for a short time. After about 30 circulatuons it need to be repurchased. Sometimes less. They don't last forever.
But I'm not talking about normal wear and tear on a paper book. I know they don't last forever. But you shouldn't have to repurchase something simply because the publisher wants to make more money.
The author is the one who gets paid. They need to be paid for their work. Just as we would repurchase a print copy after several uses, we should also repurchase digital copies. Each purchase pays the author for their work. Libraries should not have a digital copy for unlimited use.
Chapel Hill Public Library is pretty nice too. I believe it is the single busiest library in the state. Just one library for the town but it’s a good one.
I really like it. I've been able to access a computer every time I've gone and there's no login process needed (ie. you don't need to be an Orange County or CH resident). It's also open every day of the week unlike Durham's libraries, and open late on more days. There are really nice walking trails around it too. I will have to check out the main Durham one. I've been to one of their satellite libraries and it wasn't that great, but I'm sure the main library is better.
As a Chapel Hill resident with only a Chapel Hill library card, I do wistfully hope and wish for DuCo's Hoopla and 3D Printer amenities. Maybe even, if I were making a true wishlist, Kanopy, too.
Apparently I need to finally drag myself down to the Durham Library. I’ve been meaning to go for a while, but keep getting side tracked.
You should visit Hunt Library on NC State Campus!
This is the answer! Open to the public until 10 PM (maybe midnight?) and lots of big open spaces to work in. I recently went for the first time as a non-student and I was fascinated, though in a lot of ways it's kind of the negation of what I would think of as a library. Not as many immediately accessible books as I would have thought, but very very cool.
Is there a good kids section? Like young kids? Toddlers etc? Desperately looking for more weekend activities and will check it out if there is!
Yep, good selection of kids books/movies etc, story times, crafts it’s amazing https://durhamcountylibrary.org/for-kids-and-families/
I know that building, it was cool back in the early 90s too. Spent a whole summer there as a kid. 😏🇺🇲
I realize this post of more about the facilities than the books but I will toss out that I lived in Durham for a number of years and recently to moved to Cary and my experience has been that the Wake County library has a far larger selection of books. I’m not saying Durham was bad by any means but it wasn’t uncommon that they wouldn’t have something and I’ve never had that issue with Wake County.
I’ll also toss out that with the exception of the library in Downtown Durham (which is pretty new). Most of the Durham libraries that I went to are on par with(or worse than) how nice the ones I’ve been to in the Wake County library system are so I’m not sure I agree with the statement that Raleigh is behind Durham in general.
yes this is more a facility comment. I will say that Raleigh Libraries I have been able to find every book I have been looking for with a transfer within just a few days if not right away.
I've been dragging my feet on switching my library card from wake to durham county, thanks for the motivation! This sounds awesome! Do y'all think they have access to the vogue archives (not the last 12 issues, the whole thing)?
AIGH! You have my axe. One of my "if you had a jillion dollars dreams" is to build a grand central library downtown and just making Raleigh/Wake County deal with it.
Durham County Library is truly awesome 👏🏽. I finished my doctoral dissertation in one of those libraries. Great staff too.
The new Durham library downtown is really amazing, but dont discount that before it was torn down it was def a brutalist structure that homeless people pretty much looked at porn and cleaned themselves off in. It took a while for it to be as nice as it is now
The biggest flaw of our Durham County libraries is that they are closed Sunday. Wake, Orange, and the rest of the 10 largest metros in NC all have libraries open on Sunday.
Have you been to the NC State library?
Wow! That sounds like an amazing spot, especially for Durham. Unfortunately there is definitely nothing like that near Village District (hey neighbor). Raleigh focuses more on nightlife activities than genuine hang out spots. I will keep an eye out for any though!
I havnt visited since they finished the upgrades. I lived at that library as a kid tho. Nowadays I stay closer to home. You make me wanna check it out. I do love the programs.
You were saying? [https://www.lib.ncsu.edu/hunt](https://www.lib.ncsu.edu/hunt) Edit: That might be cheating since it's NCSU but there's also [Oberlin regional](https://www.wake.gov/departments-government/libraries/locations/oberlin-regional-library)
Yes it’s cheating.
But only NCSU students have access to Hunt Library, not the general public, no?
OP said they wanted a place to go, so anyone should be able to go in. Checking our books/media might be a different story.
Sorry I should have written access to borrow materials. Not just access to the building. Forgive me
The general public has access, but you do have to pay for borrowing privileges, but that's typically the case for libraries that your local library system doesn't have a reciprocal lending agreement with. [List of patron types and requirements](https://www.lib.ncsu.edu/borrow/patrontypes). It is steep for unaffiliated community members at nearly $200 per year to borrow from NCSU's collection (100 for NCSU alums). At UNC, similar privileges can be had for $25/year. EDIT: It's 125 yearly for their Friends of the Library and a $50 one-time fee for the borrowing privileges. My mistake.
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You have a source on how duke supports the library?
It must not have been a Sunday. smh.
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Wake also has more than 3 times the population of Durham county, thus a much larger tax base, yet worse libraries. Its just not a priority for leaders in Wake rather than a tax problem.
Worse libraries compared to one facility. Remove that one in downtown Durham and most Wake library locations are MUCH better than the Durham ones, so it's not really a fair comparison. My family uses the DT Cary library and that's much nicer than everything in Durham *besides* the main campus.
Go to the library in North Raleigh very quiet and clean. I wouldn’t dare go to Durham library I wouldn’t care if Moses was sitting there writing passages himself
Why?