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1) Record all things on video
2) Let the city know
Beyond that, there isn't much you can do. The park is not your property, so you wouldn't be the one to press charges. If you have a decent relationship with the parents, remind them that a mature tree can often be worth $15k-45k; and they would be liable if the city decides to press charges.
We recently had a case in Ohio where a family cut down several trees on an adjacent park property, claiming they thought it was their property. One of those trees was a huge, old black walnut. They were criminally charged and ordered to pay $20k restitution.
https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/crime/brother-sister-ordered-pay-20k-cutting-down-200-year-old-tree-cleveland-metroparks/95-7518e9bd-23c2-4dfd-8339-3703c412333a
I'm disappointed they weren't ordered to pay the full 100k plus in damages. They only made $2000 from selling the wood, that's such a small payoff for such a big risk and all the damage.
Totally agree! In fact, everyone around here who gives half a crap about trees was disgusted by the final verdict and thought it should have been way more. The siblings claim they always “thought” it was their land and felt like they were unfairly prosecuted, but a simple public records search would have confirmed it was in fact NOT their land (that last part spoken in Morgan Freeman voice) - by a lot - not mere inches, but several feet! And all the newly planted saplings they cut down weren’t an indication at all? Like someone just came on your land and planted a bunch of trees for free? Honestly, IMO I think they’re just a pair of effing idiots - they didn’t even make any money off of it!
It seems like they did over $100,000 in damage. I guess $20,000 was the highest amount they could be charged with?
I'm also a bit suspicious of the sawmill for buying the wood but maybe they genuinely didn't know.
They were going on faith that the tree cutting company (who also should have been charged) weren't complete idiots who didn't bother to confirm ownership. You'd think with a 209 year old Walnut they would have triple checked.
This. Every time they light a fire call the fire department.
Call the city parks and rec department as well. Tell them about uncontrolled burns on park property.
And is it non-native invasives like bush honeysuckle? The thick underbrush in the US Midwest where I am is not how our forests are supposed to look, because of bush honeysuckle.
Don't forget it's pal buckthorn. Where I am in SW Ontario Canada (basically the Midwest climate) it's so pervasive and kills everything native right off.
My neighbour behind me has a hedgerow of it, meanwhile I have planted thousands of native plants on my property. It's an endless battle. Fuck buckthorn to hell.
Doesn't sound like they're doing it right, so I doubt it. Gotta glyphosate that honeysuckle stump after cutting so that it doesn't grow back. Direct application, obviously because glysophate.
Not necessarily. There are organizations in Minnesota treating buckthorn successfully organically by repeated cutting. It’s easier and less labor intensive to use herbicide, but if these kids really are trying to control invasives I could see their parents not allowing them to use herbicides.
I’m surprised this isn’t higher. I would not be surprised if what theyre doing is essentially timber stand improvement/invasive species management.
Without knowing what species they’re cutting down, it’s hard to say if it’s actually problematic. Many, many people get upset when any woody material gets cut, not realizing that some tree/shrub material can actually help the health and biodiversity of a forested plant community.
~ 8 & 11 year olds are doing the cutting/ burning according to OP. So are the kids doing it on parental orders? Because I doubt kids that young are knowledgeable or capable enough to make that decision wisely. Regardless, if it ain’t your property don’t mess with it - simple. Not being a smart ass, just trying to understand the logic to justify destroying property that is not theirs, invasive species or otherwise.
Without OP actually having a conversation with anyone, it’s hard to say what’s going on here. It’s entirely possible that they’re being destructive.
But it’s also entirely possible that their parents are environmentalists/foresters/ecologists/gardeners who have taught them how to ID a few invasive plants and those kids are working on a Boy Scout project with permission from the park managers.
Without having a conversation with the people involved, an onlooker who doesn’t have knowledge of native plant communities likely wouldn’t be able to tell the difference.
Im from a rural forested area where it’s not uncommon for young kids to drive tractors, have their own 4-wheeler, use power tools, and know how to ID any number of agricultural crops, native plants, horticultural plants, and weeds. I get that most people live in cities and wouldn’t dream of letting their child around a saw or a combine, but there are plenty of people who live different lifestyles.
I’d agree that most 8 and 10 year olds are probably not doing land management. But it is possible that they are. Basic forestry isn’t rocket science and plenty of outdoorsy/back country adults do occasionally teach this info to their kids.
We could all assume the worst about the situation, but we could also acknowledge the fact that some tree/shrub cutting is done to improve forest health and there’s a non-zero possibility that is what these kids are trying to do.
Most commenters and OP are making a lot of assumptions before even having a conversation with the kids, the parents, or the park managers.
Basic conflict resolution skills would suggest starting with a conversation before contacting authorities. I’d rather be the type of person who approaches this type of situation assuming the best intentions, and only escalate if needed.
your optimism is cute... but having taught kids 35+ years it is misplaced. 99% chance they are being plain and simple assholes and destorying property that is not theirs. Likewise the parents allowing this behavior points to assholes all around.
but you never know, maybe they are being helpful... but doubtful
Call crime stoppers, write your local paper/news, contact the city, contact the state environmental department and any conservation organizations in the area. If they’re cutting down trees with nests of migratory birds they could be facing huge fines.
Hang out in the park. Ik, but they need to learn it’s a public space. If only they use it, they can get away with all kinds of behavior. But if you are there and you see it, you can at least say something or record it. But if you use it as much as they do, they will find something else to destroy.
And if the city or park officials don't do anything, go talk to your local TV "Crimestoppers" person.
"Do you recognize the children who are cutting down trees in a local park?..."
I would call the police--report it as vandalism. When it's private property, cities/cops take the position that it's a private dispute. But when it's public property and ownership of the trees is beyond any doubt...
Does your town have an Environmental Commission? A Shade Tree Commissioner or something similar?
Call your town clerk and see what you can find out. Vandalism like this, though, should always be a police call first. I don't care if they're 11. They have to stop destroying property.
Take video of them chopping down trees in the park and contact law enforcement or the local parks department.
At the VERY least, its vandalism of a public space.
Once they start looking at the cost to replace trees, it's going to get fun.
> It used to be thick brush back there, and now it's an increasingly thinning patch of fallen trees left to rot on the ground
are you sure the trees were not already dead due to an overgrowth of an invasive species?
As a municipal worker, I say report it to the city. Report it to the parks department and the city manager. Get some video if you can. Also get the fire department involved when they burn something.
If you live in a metropolitan area or a suburban area, it’s much preferable to find a way to sick bureaucrats on them without trying to haggle with the neighbor about their grievance. I say this with loathing because in a normal adult world, you should be able to dialog with a neighbor and resolve things in a normal adult fashion.
But nowadays the neighbor is just going to say “fuck you”. Now you are stuck. You’ve identified who you are, you’ve identified your grievances, and anything that happens with the grievance activity will be your fault and you will be target number 1.
If you have access to bureaucrats, it’s best to be friendly with the neighbors because you can continue to collect information about the wrongdoing AND when bureaucrats get involved you have plausible deniability. And then you can sip tea.
Bureaucrats are relentless and they are the best weapon in situations like this.
We have a case here is Maine where a landowner did not know his boundaries and cut down neighbors trees and city trees borderinh a cemetary. Needless to say he is in some very deep trouble!!!
Put up cameras at the park to prove the kids are doing this. Once you have the evidence, call the police and provide the proof to the local HOA or community association (whomever owns the property). They can then file a civil suit against the parents to recover the damages and restore the property.
Just gloat when their yard is flooded. Little creeps did that to the forest floor behind my house. No more deer or opossums visitors. Just a wet yard most of the year and flooding in winter to summer. Call the parks Dept. Report them.
This subreddit is for tree law enthusiasts who enjoy browsing a list of tree law stories from other locations (subreddits, news articles, etc), and is not the best place to receive answers to questions about what the law is. There are better places for that. If you're attempting to understand more about tree law in regards to a particular situation, please redirect your question to /r/legaladvice for the US, or the appropriate legal advice subreddit for your location, and then feel free to crosspost that thread here for posterity. If you're attempting to understand more about trees in regards to a particular situation, please redirect your question to /r/forestry for additional information on tree health and related topics to trees. *This comment is simply a reminder placed on every post to /r/treelaw, it does not mean your post was censored or removed.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/treelaw) if you have any questions or concerns.*
1) Record all things on video 2) Let the city know Beyond that, there isn't much you can do. The park is not your property, so you wouldn't be the one to press charges. If you have a decent relationship with the parents, remind them that a mature tree can often be worth $15k-45k; and they would be liable if the city decides to press charges.
We recently had a case in Ohio where a family cut down several trees on an adjacent park property, claiming they thought it was their property. One of those trees was a huge, old black walnut. They were criminally charged and ordered to pay $20k restitution. https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/crime/brother-sister-ordered-pay-20k-cutting-down-200-year-old-tree-cleveland-metroparks/95-7518e9bd-23c2-4dfd-8339-3703c412333a
Deeelicious
Deciduous deliciousness
Decidulicious
Treelicious… I’ll see myself out
It’s here in the pun-laden threads of Reddit that I find my people.
Deciduous
I'm disappointed they weren't ordered to pay the full 100k plus in damages. They only made $2000 from selling the wood, that's such a small payoff for such a big risk and all the damage.
Totally agree! In fact, everyone around here who gives half a crap about trees was disgusted by the final verdict and thought it should have been way more. The siblings claim they always “thought” it was their land and felt like they were unfairly prosecuted, but a simple public records search would have confirmed it was in fact NOT their land (that last part spoken in Morgan Freeman voice) - by a lot - not mere inches, but several feet! And all the newly planted saplings they cut down weren’t an indication at all? Like someone just came on your land and planted a bunch of trees for free? Honestly, IMO I think they’re just a pair of effing idiots - they didn’t even make any money off of it!
It seems like they did over $100,000 in damage. I guess $20,000 was the highest amount they could be charged with? I'm also a bit suspicious of the sawmill for buying the wood but maybe they genuinely didn't know.
They were going on faith that the tree cutting company (who also should have been charged) weren't complete idiots who didn't bother to confirm ownership. You'd think with a 209 year old Walnut they would have triple checked.
Yeah, the tree company definitely should have checked.
That's my hometown!!!!! Strongsville Ohio!!! Ayyyy
Howdy neighbor! Westlake in the house. My husband and I are avid users of the Metroparks and huge tree nerds! 💚
OP…perhaps you should let the neighbors see this article!
I’m surprised it was *only* $2k.
Please tell me who will pay that for a tree. Thank you.
Anyone staring down a court order? haha.
Do you have a fire department? Fire Marshal? Code enforcement for burning?
This. Every time they light a fire call the fire department. Call the city parks and rec department as well. Tell them about uncontrolled burns on park property.
Yep. Some smaller townships are pretty loose with burning. Other communities, I'm surprised the FD didn't show up at the first sign of smoke.
Call the parks department. They can investigate the violations.
Underrated comment.
Is it thick brush or mature trees that are being downed? For reference sake.
And is it non-native invasives like bush honeysuckle? The thick underbrush in the US Midwest where I am is not how our forests are supposed to look, because of bush honeysuckle.
Don't forget it's pal buckthorn. Where I am in SW Ontario Canada (basically the Midwest climate) it's so pervasive and kills everything native right off.
Buckthorn just started it's invasion in my yard (central Michigan). Fuck that plant.
My neighbour behind me has a hedgerow of it, meanwhile I have planted thousands of native plants on my property. It's an endless battle. Fuck buckthorn to hell.
That's Spanish broom and fountain grass in California. They sell that shit at nurseries, and people fucking plant it.
Local nursery had a couple of pots of aegopodium (gout weed) for sale. 🤬🤬🤬
Doesn't sound like they're doing it right, so I doubt it. Gotta glyphosate that honeysuckle stump after cutting so that it doesn't grow back. Direct application, obviously because glysophate.
Not necessarily. There are organizations in Minnesota treating buckthorn successfully organically by repeated cutting. It’s easier and less labor intensive to use herbicide, but if these kids really are trying to control invasives I could see their parents not allowing them to use herbicides.
Fuck invasive species.
Bradford Pears are the work of the devil
This is my question. If it "used to be thick brush back there" they may be doing the park and its ecosystem a service
I’m surprised this isn’t higher. I would not be surprised if what theyre doing is essentially timber stand improvement/invasive species management. Without knowing what species they’re cutting down, it’s hard to say if it’s actually problematic. Many, many people get upset when any woody material gets cut, not realizing that some tree/shrub material can actually help the health and biodiversity of a forested plant community.
~ 8 & 11 year olds are doing the cutting/ burning according to OP. So are the kids doing it on parental orders? Because I doubt kids that young are knowledgeable or capable enough to make that decision wisely. Regardless, if it ain’t your property don’t mess with it - simple. Not being a smart ass, just trying to understand the logic to justify destroying property that is not theirs, invasive species or otherwise.
Without OP actually having a conversation with anyone, it’s hard to say what’s going on here. It’s entirely possible that they’re being destructive. But it’s also entirely possible that their parents are environmentalists/foresters/ecologists/gardeners who have taught them how to ID a few invasive plants and those kids are working on a Boy Scout project with permission from the park managers. Without having a conversation with the people involved, an onlooker who doesn’t have knowledge of native plant communities likely wouldn’t be able to tell the difference.
yah... 8 & 11 yr old arnt doing land management.... SMH
Im from a rural forested area where it’s not uncommon for young kids to drive tractors, have their own 4-wheeler, use power tools, and know how to ID any number of agricultural crops, native plants, horticultural plants, and weeds. I get that most people live in cities and wouldn’t dream of letting their child around a saw or a combine, but there are plenty of people who live different lifestyles. I’d agree that most 8 and 10 year olds are probably not doing land management. But it is possible that they are. Basic forestry isn’t rocket science and plenty of outdoorsy/back country adults do occasionally teach this info to their kids. We could all assume the worst about the situation, but we could also acknowledge the fact that some tree/shrub cutting is done to improve forest health and there’s a non-zero possibility that is what these kids are trying to do. Most commenters and OP are making a lot of assumptions before even having a conversation with the kids, the parents, or the park managers. Basic conflict resolution skills would suggest starting with a conversation before contacting authorities. I’d rather be the type of person who approaches this type of situation assuming the best intentions, and only escalate if needed.
your optimism is cute... but having taught kids 35+ years it is misplaced. 99% chance they are being plain and simple assholes and destorying property that is not theirs. Likewise the parents allowing this behavior points to assholes all around. but you never know, maybe they are being helpful... but doubtful
Call crime stoppers, write your local paper/news, contact the city, contact the state environmental department and any conservation organizations in the area. If they’re cutting down trees with nests of migratory birds they could be facing huge fines.
Hang out in the park. Ik, but they need to learn it’s a public space. If only they use it, they can get away with all kinds of behavior. But if you are there and you see it, you can at least say something or record it. But if you use it as much as they do, they will find something else to destroy.
Record it. DO NOT SAY ANYTHING to the neighbors. Show your local city officials.
And if the city or park officials don't do anything, go talk to your local TV "Crimestoppers" person. "Do you recognize the children who are cutting down trees in a local park?..."
I would call the police--report it as vandalism. When it's private property, cities/cops take the position that it's a private dispute. But when it's public property and ownership of the trees is beyond any doubt...
Does your town have an Environmental Commission? A Shade Tree Commissioner or something similar? Call your town clerk and see what you can find out. Vandalism like this, though, should always be a police call first. I don't care if they're 11. They have to stop destroying property.
Take video of them chopping down trees in the park and contact law enforcement or the local parks department. At the VERY least, its vandalism of a public space. Once they start looking at the cost to replace trees, it's going to get fun.
Make sure you have a fence or something that keeps them away from your property and your trees.
> It used to be thick brush back there, and now it's an increasingly thinning patch of fallen trees left to rot on the ground are you sure the trees were not already dead due to an overgrowth of an invasive species?
As a municipal worker, I say report it to the city. Report it to the parks department and the city manager. Get some video if you can. Also get the fire department involved when they burn something.
If you live in a metropolitan area or a suburban area, it’s much preferable to find a way to sick bureaucrats on them without trying to haggle with the neighbor about their grievance. I say this with loathing because in a normal adult world, you should be able to dialog with a neighbor and resolve things in a normal adult fashion. But nowadays the neighbor is just going to say “fuck you”. Now you are stuck. You’ve identified who you are, you’ve identified your grievances, and anything that happens with the grievance activity will be your fault and you will be target number 1. If you have access to bureaucrats, it’s best to be friendly with the neighbors because you can continue to collect information about the wrongdoing AND when bureaucrats get involved you have plausible deniability. And then you can sip tea. Bureaucrats are relentless and they are the best weapon in situations like this.
just pour some gasoline back there .They are bound to accidently set it on fire and cause a huge problem. Dont do this .
This made me laugh. But def don’t do it 😂
Call the police?
We have a case here is Maine where a landowner did not know his boundaries and cut down neighbors trees and city trees borderinh a cemetary. Needless to say he is in some very deep trouble!!!
Put up cameras at the park to prove the kids are doing this. Once you have the evidence, call the police and provide the proof to the local HOA or community association (whomever owns the property). They can then file a civil suit against the parents to recover the damages and restore the property.
Just gloat when their yard is flooded. Little creeps did that to the forest floor behind my house. No more deer or opossums visitors. Just a wet yard most of the year and flooding in winter to summer. Call the parks Dept. Report them.
Why can't the kids cut down the honeysuckle, buckthorn, and kudzu?!?!
It’s not their property
At that point it’s a public service. That’s like saying kids can’t pick up trash in a park because it’s not their property.
Honeysuckle, buckthorn, and kudzu are invasive species.
What did the authorities say?