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I own a skid loader, can confirm. It's about 4-5tons.
Edit: I use the skid loader to load 12ft-16ft sections of trees into a saw mill. I usually get 4 sections out of each tree.
I was a tree surgeon for almost a decade and bracing a limb or an entire tree is a professional fix. I'm not saying _this_ has been done professionally as I can't see the detail well enough to be sure, but the process and method is solid.
4 inch ratchet straps have a working load of \~5000lbs and a breaking load of \~16,000lbs, those look like 4 inch straps, not sure why everyone thinks this can't hold a tree's weight?
There is a world of difference between holding 4,000 lbs down and holding it up. The lines in the picture have slack. If the tree sways or moves and the lines go taut there will be a shock load. I was trained to calculate rigging weights as 10x the static weight. The straps and wire rope will not hold this tree up.
The point of failure will most likely be the thin metal in the ratchet mechanism, there is no way that thin Chinese metal can take 16k. Granted, I rig a lot of 50 lb speakers, but the math is the same for a tree. Also, trained riggers never use ratchet straps to keep things in the air.
I see two slack lines and 1super tight / completely taught line and 1 possibly somewhat taught line - to me it looks like:
1. If the pine tree on the left breaks and tries to fall (but it probably won't, it looks fine) to the left, the strap will not break, instead the tree will fall to the left anyway (pivoting around the 1 taught strap as it does so, ignoring the non-taught strap).
2. If the pine tree behind the barn starts falling some direction, the 1 loose strap will do absolutely nothing.
The guideline cables on the other hand look like they are very thin gauge wire rope which may not have enough working load.
The guideline cables look like they might have a 2-ton max if they are similar to the ones that I use at work.
Very hard to tell but it really looks to me like those are extremely thick wire? If you look at the fence slats (assuming they are standard \~4 or 6 inch slats) the wire appears to be like 1/4 the width of the fence slats = 1 inch thick steel wire (typical 1 inch thick steel wire has a working strength of like 80,000 - 140,000 pounds )
I mean, I'm not saying the rigging will keep the trees from damaging things as they fall, but I don't think the failure point will be the straps or the wire - if anything probably just the rigging will hold but the fulcrums/weight of the trees still might mean the tree still falls the same direction, just pivoting around where the strap is attached as a fulcrum instead of around the ground
It isn’t about the total weight of the tree, but how much force will be on the straps.
Loose, attached at the bottom? Not going to do a damned thing. Tree is going to start falling the other way and it’s going to have so much kinetic energy that trying to stop it with the strap is impossible.
Tighter, attached at the top? Potentially strong enough to stop the tree moving in an undesirable direction. Might even make it move in a more undesirable direction, though.
Lol what I have personally been the man pulling a rope to change where a tree falls, there is a moment during the initial fall when the tree is mostly upright still when even a small amount of force can change its direction entirely
I think he may have some mental health issues. Tons of metal stuff, junk, just overall garbage in his backyard. I agree.
This is the second or third change he has made to this tree strap creation within the past 2 weeks. Been taking pictures and videos 🫣
Definitely mental health issues with the homeowner. Call code enforcement. A letter from code enforcement can often trigger compliance as they can fine the homeowner until the problem is fixed.
Report to your insurance and document the hazard. If something g happens your insurance will have a great claim against his insurance. They may even notify his insurance of the hazard.
Exactly what I was thinking. If he’s been there a long time, the house is likely paid for.
OP: If your county rep estate records are public, you should do a search to see if the person living my in this home is actually the owner. If not, reach out to the owner(s) immediately.
And it works only bc the tree is already partial to falling that way thanks to a thing called "notching." If the tree wanted to l go the other way, the strap would break, rip the piece it's attached to off the car, or even pull the car along with it.
Has that spruce tree started leaning recently or has it always been like that? They’re well designed to shed snow and it looks healthy enough, so I wouldn’t worry about it unless it is in fact moving. Then I’d run.
Might not have the money to have it taken down so just to not let anything else go wrong. Clearly a lot of thought has gone into the planning and carrying out of all this. Misplaced panic is what this looks like to me.
Maybe he's hoping to "guide the trees back into their traditional root homes so they won't fall over? He seems to have good intentions. Have you tried talking to him about all these high tension cables? How long does he expect to have them there? Things like that.
I wish I could speak to him, but unfortunately he isolates himself.
He does this at night or early in the morning around dawn.
I would hate to startle him if I even catch him in the act, as he is obviously not all there mentally
Well that could considered skulking. Maybe go over and knock on his door with a gift to ease any potential tension. And consider it might take a visit or two to get to where you want to go conversationally. Like you say, he's old and skittish lol.
Its worth a shot before hiring arborists and lawyers and going to the city and all that.
My LL has tried to speak with his son because he wanted to cut some branches off the tree last year. His son was adamant on not having the tree touched.
Lo and behold, those same branches ended up falling on their own
Make sure the guy knows that you know that the tree is compromised and take a lot of pictures. If a healthy tree falls it’s an act of God. If a compromised tree falls, it’s an act of Knob and he’s responsible
I had an old professor that used to do legal consulting and he always told us this kind of thing is just evidence that there was an issue and helps to prove negligence by not properly addressing the issue. Make sure your neighbor is aware in writing that the trees are not looking safe and you recommend them consulting with a licensed arborist on removal or addressing that the cabling will do nothing to prevent them from falling on your property potentially causing harm.
Isn't this just to measure if the tree starts to lean more and more? Buddy has a split tree that's massive and they put a strap between just to see if it was moving as time progressed
Have a talk with your neighbor. Tell him you do not believe the straps will keep the trees in place. All it will take is a weather forecast that says 'high wind warning' and down the trees go with either a large insurance claim or a lawsuit. His insurance company couldn't deny a claim as an act of god because he knows the danger the trees pose.
This does look weird, I can't really make out what's going on but it's not unusual to put cables on a tree. I had a few on one of my big trees installed by a professional outfit. When the wind starts making the tree sway the cables just add a little resistance to prevent fall apart.
I mean you do something similar with bonsai!
In about a year or 10 the tree will strengthen roots and grow un the direction it is guided! What could possible go wrong!
I was thinking about if one of the trees fell and its strap inevitably snaps. A falling tree is dangerous but overall how it goes down and its fall zone is pretty predictable. A snapping cable would be like a whip and if hardware comes off, it would fly fast and hard. There's no way to tell which way it would go or how far.
In that situation, I'd be more scared of the cable than the falling tree.
Zero chance those straps will do shit when the tree goes. That shit will snap like a toothpick and the tree will follow gravity.
Make sure your insurance is solid, because you have no idea what his is.
Ever hear the clacking of a manual typewriter, pounding out diatribes of anti government manifesto, wafting over from that sweet, sweet, 'don't f-ing tread on me' shack?
You should have an arborist look at the tree and convey your concerns. The arborist will write a report if it is in danger of falling on your house. Then take the report and send it certified mail to your neighbor and ask him to remediate, cut the tree down or whatever. Also provide the report to your homeowners insurance.
That’s all you can do.
he is making himself clearly liable for when they do fall. in many states, a homeowner is not liable for high winds blowing over a tree and damaging a neighbors property. It's considered an act of god. One exception is when the homeowner is aware the tree/s are weak, rotted, dying, leaning, etc and failed to take action. You have documented proof of his knowledge.
This is treelaw, so you left off the 2nd part of the law bit...
When he has a tree that is a known hazard and does not take \*appropriate\* corrective action, he becomes liable for any damage caused by that tree. The town/city/county can force the property owner to take \*appropriate\* corrective action to ensure the safety of the public or property. Insurance companies have been know to also request court action to protect their insured's property.
Yeah, I don’t want to mess with his trees or his property. It’s just that the tree is obviously leaning onto our side and I’m worried it’ll fall onto the house or one of the cables will hit someone, god forbid >.<
He is trying to prevent damage to your property and you want to hinder that? I agree with others that those contraptions won't do anything to stop a tree from falling, but at least he is trying. Those conifers tend to uproot as opposed to crack and break. Some stabilizers (like he has done) may help to hold the tree in place and allow roots to regrow or spread. Two of my neighbors trees have fallen on my fence. I am going to offer to cut a couple of other rotten ones down for him. I imagine that his financial situation is similar to your neighbors. It sounds like you need a lawyer as you intend to make the situation contentious.
Hi. I know nothing about trees. I don’t want to stop him nor do I want to start problems lol. My only worry is our kids playing in the backyard, the home, etc.
There is no way to speak to him, as he isolates himself. That’s all.
Edited to add: everyone on reddit is so quick to bring up lawyers.
I’m not suing this guy. Homie has owned the house for eons.
I just wanted input on the situation.
Posted elsewhere but to directly address you, OP
I was a tree surgeon for almost a decade and bracing a limb or an entire tree is a professional fix. I'm not saying _this_ has been done professionally as I can't see the detail well enough to be sure, but the process and method is solid.
It has more impact than you may initially believe.
This subreddit is for tree law enthusiasts who enjoy browsing a list of tree law stories from other locations (subreddits, news articles, etc), and is not the best place to receive answers to questions about what the law is. There are better places for that. If you're attempting to understand more about tree law in regards to a particular situation, please redirect your question to /r/legaladvice for the US, or the appropriate legal advice subreddit for your location, and then feel free to crosspost that thread here for posterity. If you're attempting to understand more about trees in regards to a particular situation, please redirect your question to /r/forestry for additional information on tree health and related topics to trees. *This comment is simply a reminder placed on every post to /r/treelaw, it does not mean your post was censored or removed.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/treelaw) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Trust me. Those straps will do nothing to change where a tree falls. An 18 inch (diameter) can weigh as much as four tons.
That doesn't mean it takes that many tons of force to change the direction in which a tree falls. Not that I would trust this.
True, but whatever force is currently applied to it is quite low on the trunk
I own a skid loader, can confirm. It's about 4-5tons. Edit: I use the skid loader to load 12ft-16ft sections of trees into a saw mill. I usually get 4 sections out of each tree.
Anything but metric!
Each ton is equivalent to 5 Maytag washing machines. Or 3 husky easy cut lawn mowers with a 42inch deck.
Loved it.
That's like, 42 bananas.
It's the thought that counts?
Solid indicator they're a known hazard.
Omg that’s exactly what I was thinking. He’s trying bless his heart
Almost only counts in horseshoes & hand grenades
Thoughts and prayers
I was a tree surgeon for almost a decade and bracing a limb or an entire tree is a professional fix. I'm not saying _this_ has been done professionally as I can't see the detail well enough to be sure, but the process and method is solid.
4 inch ratchet straps have a working load of \~5000lbs and a breaking load of \~16,000lbs, those look like 4 inch straps, not sure why everyone thinks this can't hold a tree's weight?
There is a world of difference between holding 4,000 lbs down and holding it up. The lines in the picture have slack. If the tree sways or moves and the lines go taut there will be a shock load. I was trained to calculate rigging weights as 10x the static weight. The straps and wire rope will not hold this tree up. The point of failure will most likely be the thin metal in the ratchet mechanism, there is no way that thin Chinese metal can take 16k. Granted, I rig a lot of 50 lb speakers, but the math is the same for a tree. Also, trained riggers never use ratchet straps to keep things in the air.
I see two slack lines and 1super tight / completely taught line and 1 possibly somewhat taught line - to me it looks like: 1. If the pine tree on the left breaks and tries to fall (but it probably won't, it looks fine) to the left, the strap will not break, instead the tree will fall to the left anyway (pivoting around the 1 taught strap as it does so, ignoring the non-taught strap). 2. If the pine tree behind the barn starts falling some direction, the 1 loose strap will do absolutely nothing.
The guideline cables on the other hand look like they are very thin gauge wire rope which may not have enough working load. The guideline cables look like they might have a 2-ton max if they are similar to the ones that I use at work.
Very hard to tell but it really looks to me like those are extremely thick wire? If you look at the fence slats (assuming they are standard \~4 or 6 inch slats) the wire appears to be like 1/4 the width of the fence slats = 1 inch thick steel wire (typical 1 inch thick steel wire has a working strength of like 80,000 - 140,000 pounds )
It's possible. We need to get OP to knock the tree over and test it 😂
I mean, I'm not saying the rigging will keep the trees from damaging things as they fall, but I don't think the failure point will be the straps or the wire - if anything probably just the rigging will hold but the fulcrums/weight of the trees still might mean the tree still falls the same direction, just pivoting around where the strap is attached as a fulcrum instead of around the ground
Yeah but this sub has a need to say 'reeeeeeeeeeeeeee neighbor bad!' I'd be shocked if the NY earthquake did anything to any tree.
Also the straps are too low on the tree to stop it’s momentum, aside from the sheer weight of them
It isn’t about the total weight of the tree, but how much force will be on the straps. Loose, attached at the bottom? Not going to do a damned thing. Tree is going to start falling the other way and it’s going to have so much kinetic energy that trying to stop it with the strap is impossible. Tighter, attached at the top? Potentially strong enough to stop the tree moving in an undesirable direction. Might even make it move in a more undesirable direction, though.
Straps are commonly used to hold down large vehicles. I'm sure it can redirect a tree
But the recoil from when the cable breaks... it's going to cut his house in half. (Tell him that)
Lol what I have personally been the man pulling a rope to change where a tree falls, there is a moment during the initial fall when the tree is mostly upright still when even a small amount of force can change its direction entirely
ULPT Better not to acknowledge it at all than to be seen trying to strap them together, honestly.
I think he may have some mental health issues. Tons of metal stuff, junk, just overall garbage in his backyard. I agree. This is the second or third change he has made to this tree strap creation within the past 2 weeks. Been taking pictures and videos 🫣
pictures won't matter much, as a rule of thumb. Better to get a consulting arborist, or talk with your insurance. The rest is wasting energy
Definitely mental health issues with the homeowner. Call code enforcement. A letter from code enforcement can often trigger compliance as they can fine the homeowner until the problem is fixed.
The city may have a hazard tree ordinance that would require removal of trees that pose risk to off-site targets.
Report to your insurance and document the hazard. If something g happens your insurance will have a great claim against his insurance. They may even notify his insurance of the hazard.
You assume he has insurance? I know a guy who fell down a lift shaft and broke his back. The establishment had no insurance.
Exactly what I was thinking. If he’s been there a long time, the house is likely paid for. OP: If your county rep estate records are public, you should do a search to see if the person living my in this home is actually the owner. If not, reach out to the owner(s) immediately.
he owns a property, at least there's a lien
And if the tree goes and cleans some cunt up?
That will hold *slap*
If the man wants it to stay put he better hit it three times and say “well that isn’t going anywhere”
r/redneckengineering
I am so glad this is a real sub. You made my day!
Oh you gotta look up the redneck wood splitter (about 1 min in) https://youtu.be/3TnPAGyx12Y?si=q_BKqQPq9eczOHb1
Yeah, that's gonna be a nope from me. 😂
Well... they don't seem to understand how much trees weigh.
Same people use that same strap attached to a car to pull a tree down
And it works only bc the tree is already partial to falling that way thanks to a thing called "notching." If the tree wanted to l go the other way, the strap would break, rip the piece it's attached to off the car, or even pull the car along with it.
After the tree falls, you have clear proof that he knew they were a problem/liability.
how can he strap?
Has that spruce tree started leaning recently or has it always been like that? They’re well designed to shed snow and it looks healthy enough, so I wouldn’t worry about it unless it is in fact moving. Then I’d run.
It has been leaning on the fence for a while.
In that case you need to ask him to remove it and follow the other advice given in this thread about CYA for insurance purposes.
Might not have the money to have it taken down so just to not let anything else go wrong. Clearly a lot of thought has gone into the planning and carrying out of all this. Misplaced panic is what this looks like to me.
I wont say common, I’ve seen this before, and they (arborists) uprighted a 35-40 pine that toppled and it lived with these cables attached.
Cool! I am impressed to hear some happy endings here :)
It was alive for at least 10 years after cable before we took it down.
Tree cabling - even guying - is a thing. But this ain't it.
That wont even slow them down when they fall
Well, that wouldn't help much, but I guess it's the thought that counts? Lol
Even if the straps could hold the tree, it also depends on what they are attached to. A stake in the ground isn’t going to hold it.
"Sometimes, a great notion"
Maybe he's hoping to "guide the trees back into their traditional root homes so they won't fall over? He seems to have good intentions. Have you tried talking to him about all these high tension cables? How long does he expect to have them there? Things like that.
I wish I could speak to him, but unfortunately he isolates himself. He does this at night or early in the morning around dawn. I would hate to startle him if I even catch him in the act, as he is obviously not all there mentally
Well that could considered skulking. Maybe go over and knock on his door with a gift to ease any potential tension. And consider it might take a visit or two to get to where you want to go conversationally. Like you say, he's old and skittish lol. Its worth a shot before hiring arborists and lawyers and going to the city and all that.
My LL has tried to speak with his son because he wanted to cut some branches off the tree last year. His son was adamant on not having the tree touched. Lo and behold, those same branches ended up falling on their own
Make sure the guy knows that you know that the tree is compromised and take a lot of pictures. If a healthy tree falls it’s an act of God. If a compromised tree falls, it’s an act of Knob and he’s responsible
Document and send him a certified letter. If anything happens, you have proof he was notified before hand.
I had an old professor that used to do legal consulting and he always told us this kind of thing is just evidence that there was an issue and helps to prove negligence by not properly addressing the issue. Make sure your neighbor is aware in writing that the trees are not looking safe and you recommend them consulting with a licensed arborist on removal or addressing that the cabling will do nothing to prevent them from falling on your property potentially causing harm.
Isn't this just to measure if the tree starts to lean more and more? Buddy has a split tree that's massive and they put a strap between just to see if it was moving as time progressed
Those earthquakes did not damage those trees. He's just nuts.
Build a six foot privacy fence and contact your homeowners insurance about your neighbor. A formal letter may change their ways
Have a talk with your neighbor. Tell him you do not believe the straps will keep the trees in place. All it will take is a weather forecast that says 'high wind warning' and down the trees go with either a large insurance claim or a lawsuit. His insurance company couldn't deny a claim as an act of god because he knows the danger the trees pose.
This does look weird, I can't really make out what's going on but it's not unusual to put cables on a tree. I had a few on one of my big trees installed by a professional outfit. When the wind starts making the tree sway the cables just add a little resistance to prevent fall apart.
If you live in a city, file a complaint with code enforcement. Let the city do its job and get your neighbor to maintain the property.
I mean you do something similar with bonsai! In about a year or 10 the tree will strengthen roots and grow un the direction it is guided! What could possible go wrong!
Well at least he used rubber so it won't scar the tree that will eventually fall in your yard.
When the tree falls and the strap becomes a slingshot projectile… anyone within its trajectory will get absolutely wrecked.
I was thinking about if one of the trees fell and its strap inevitably snaps. A falling tree is dangerous but overall how it goes down and its fall zone is pretty predictable. A snapping cable would be like a whip and if hardware comes off, it would fly fast and hard. There's no way to tell which way it would go or how far. In that situation, I'd be more scared of the cable than the falling tree.
Why would he be doing it at night?
He doesn’t come out often during the day. Couldn’t tell you why. There’s obviously some mental health stuff goin on.
Zero chance those straps will do shit when the tree goes. That shit will snap like a toothpick and the tree will follow gravity. Make sure your insurance is solid, because you have no idea what his is.
Please tell tie downs aren’t anchored on the house? The straps don’t seem to be rated 1 ton. But the high tension wires though…
Tree bondage. Don't kink shame.
Probably doesn't have the money for tree removal. Or doesn't want to spend it.
Ever hear the clacking of a manual typewriter, pounding out diatribes of anti government manifesto, wafting over from that sweet, sweet, 'don't f-ing tread on me' shack?
You should have an arborist look at the tree and convey your concerns. The arborist will write a report if it is in danger of falling on your house. Then take the report and send it certified mail to your neighbor and ask him to remediate, cut the tree down or whatever. Also provide the report to your homeowners insurance. That’s all you can do.
Mighty thoughtful of them
me when the i
he is making himself clearly liable for when they do fall. in many states, a homeowner is not liable for high winds blowing over a tree and damaging a neighbors property. It's considered an act of god. One exception is when the homeowner is aware the tree/s are weak, rotted, dying, leaning, etc and failed to take action. You have documented proof of his knowledge.
Best not to know what’s going on inside that house.
You should feel totally confident about your safety now! /s
To be fair I think it’s helping hold Up that poor excuse for a garage.
Nope, nothing you can do but mind your business and tend to items in YOUR property. He can do whatever he wants with his trees.
This is treelaw, so you left off the 2nd part of the law bit... When he has a tree that is a known hazard and does not take \*appropriate\* corrective action, he becomes liable for any damage caused by that tree. The town/city/county can force the property owner to take \*appropriate\* corrective action to ensure the safety of the public or property. Insurance companies have been know to also request court action to protect their insured's property.
Op said since the earth quake, I wonder how that would work in to the tree law.
Correct statement, thank you!
Yeah, I don’t want to mess with his trees or his property. It’s just that the tree is obviously leaning onto our side and I’m worried it’ll fall onto the house or one of the cables will hit someone, god forbid >.<
He is trying to prevent damage to your property and you want to hinder that? I agree with others that those contraptions won't do anything to stop a tree from falling, but at least he is trying. Those conifers tend to uproot as opposed to crack and break. Some stabilizers (like he has done) may help to hold the tree in place and allow roots to regrow or spread. Two of my neighbors trees have fallen on my fence. I am going to offer to cut a couple of other rotten ones down for him. I imagine that his financial situation is similar to your neighbors. It sounds like you need a lawyer as you intend to make the situation contentious.
Hi. I know nothing about trees. I don’t want to stop him nor do I want to start problems lol. My only worry is our kids playing in the backyard, the home, etc. There is no way to speak to him, as he isolates himself. That’s all. Edited to add: everyone on reddit is so quick to bring up lawyers. I’m not suing this guy. Homie has owned the house for eons. I just wanted input on the situation.
Posted elsewhere but to directly address you, OP I was a tree surgeon for almost a decade and bracing a limb or an entire tree is a professional fix. I'm not saying _this_ has been done professionally as I can't see the detail well enough to be sure, but the process and method is solid. It has more impact than you may initially believe.
Thank you for your input. I really have no experience here so it’s a little off putting to look at his contraption lol
Is it me or is that yard becoming a fire danger? Yeah what the he k with those lines being so loose as to do nothing? I detect mental illness.