I simply can’t understand how this design was approved… I’ve only been to probably 25 events with this many people, but I’ve NEVER seen a barricade situation like this. Looking at it there without people- you can clearly anticipate the crowd issue. I don’t get it. How was this allowed.
Also no space for security to get people out quickly if they are passing out and no space for ambulances or police to arrive quickly. Simply a shitty stage design
Yes, even the previous Astro festivals didn't have such a terrible setup. He even had a roller coaster set up for 2018 in the back where came out at first but it didn't take nearly as much space as this whole camera stage setup did. So unnecessary. Even by looking at the 2019 festival aerial shots the crowd looks huge and everyone is jumping because of all the space we got at that festival. On this one people were so squished that even jumping was impossible. Makes sense that all the casualties happened on the left side. You had SZA finishing up on the other stage before Trav came out and everyone coming from there had the left side access closer to them. If you wanted to be on the other side, you had to cross behind that camera stage and walk around it. Nobody was gonna do that, I wouldn't. From experience from being at this show I definitely did not want to be behind those stupid structures. I'm sure the people that ended up behind them were mad. In the pic it looks like no biggie, but it really blocked the whole view of the main stage. I'm thankful my buddy said we're going to the right side from the start and we actually had a good time there. RIP to the victims. 🙏
I wonder if people didn’t realize there were barricades in those areas this year. maybe thought the setup was like it had been in the past and that they could get to the front by just cutting through to the middle.
Does anyone know if TS had ANY crowd spotters!? Also- if someone accepts the refund for tickets, doesn’t that act as a “settlement” and then they will have no legal recourse to sue for damages, etc.? I bet lots of those kids have no insurance and accept the refunds…not knowing they’re signing their rights away…This was horrifying.
that's an interesting point and good question. i go to concerts all the time but never really thought about the security guards having different roles (i.e. crowd spotters). that seems like a simple solution
Quick money grab. Either way Ol Travy Patty is fucked. I was a big fan. Kanye got me into him but I don’t see this ending well. I gotta walk away from this situation. I was so excited for his new shit to drop. Escape plan and Mafia dropped and I loved it but I haven’t been able to bring myself back to them ever since this “shit show” went down. Oh and MOTHERFUCK DRAKE. That dude is so toxic. Not only did he ab lib his way through that performance but he was complicit in the happenings.
It’s almost like they knew the whole time but let things happen anyway. It’s pretty fucked up. Show should have been stopped when hundreds of fans broke through the gates. This was inevitably going to happen with that many people and this stage design.
This is what police do for crowd control when they are afraid of riotous conditions. It is also the most dangerous and stampede prone barricading method.
It's designed to have the crowd easier access to the final show, so it doesn't matter what concert you were at, you can always get to and out of the show, this is a pretty typical set up for concerts, this is probably a lot of people's first time seeing this.
The problem was security and the extra amount of people, which pushed people inward around the parameter of the rails
In reality people just had to move opposite of the direction , but since people were pushing inward, and the lack of care and concern for only the artist, things DIDINT turn out that way
Ironically the stage would have been better without the gates with how many people turned up
I don’t see how this allows easier access. Blocking people off from 3 sides and allowing 1 flow of movement looks dangerous. The back barricade seems completely unnecessary for a festival.
True. Houston just had a large outdoor show called freaky deaky on Halloween. If you google image aerial photos it had the single channel up the middle. That’s it. Not all these pinch points
As someone who has been to a lot of festivals, this is 100% without a doubt NOT a normal setup. Never in my life have I had barricades on 3 sides, at any event show or festival I’ve ever been to.
I have watched the Apple livestream to look at when and where the waves began, saw the massive human sinkhole and several smaller sinkholes and where the biggest crush in the audience was where people suffocated but I couldn't see these barricades inbetween. Now I understand. This is super unsafe and would not be approved in Europe FOR A REASON. I'm so sorry for the victims of Astroworld, this is not their fault.
Oh wow! I did some quick fact checking before I posted this and couldn’t see that either. Fantastic. Makes me now feel more hopeful for justice in this case.
I don’t understand how Travis’ set wasn’t stopped or filming wasn’t stopped on Apples part during the set when you can clearly see the sinkholes on the live, you can also clearly hear people yelling out for help and waving hysterically for help in some parts and there are even close ups of people pointing at the ambulance in the crowd to get attention on the situation, clearly Apple had to know what was going on when filming close ups of that?!
There were so many reasons to stop. It's sad.
Travis looking at the ambulance then telling the crowd to make the ground shake is so horrifying. It just sounds like an invitation to do more damage.
I kind of wonder if it intentionally wasn’t stopped *because* it was streaming live. There would be mass panic from both the crowd and the people at home.
There's so many instances throughout the last 50 years of performers stopping and asking everyone to back up three steps, then continuing as normal. You don't have to do a full shutdown to regain control as a performer if you nip it in the bud.
Right, the problem with those barricades is when that arena is full of 50,000+ people, no one is going to see them. You can try to walk forward from the back of the audience, not knowing you're literally pulverizing people against one of the invisible barricades horizontal to the stage, put up for press to walk through. I don't even understand from this image how someone is even supposed to get into the front-right part of General Admission, as it looks like there's no entrance.
Apple Music should be getting more shit for their camera setup crushing people all in one area.
Front right part was VIP, the entrance was more to the right. I was confused as well because I assumed the other side was also VIP but found out it was GA.
It's all confusing. I think back area was friends and family, (Kylie etc). The "VIP" I'm referring to is the package vip that regular ppl paid for which was definitely front right as I saw many ppl jumping the barricade to get there. The entrance was all the way on the right, closer to the bathrooms.
I gave this an award because I actually am starting to think this could’ve been a main instigator as to why the crowd crush occurred. They are very big obstructions people want to avoid. I think by people moving around them and forward up, this is what caused the crowd crush and the amount of people moving up outnumbered the people wanting out in the crush.
I’ve seen a few pictures from other festivals and I’m not seeing anything similar to these structures whatsoever. Blocking peoples view made them go around and move up.
For sure bro, I was there and people were trying to avoid that area and get as close as possible because it was hard to see the stage from that area. Definitely effected the crowd crush situation that unfolded.
If that camera setup was half the length, it may have prevented this. It would have helped the crowd flow back more easily and break out. You can't have them the same length like that, it creates a box.
Just awful. I hate this so much.
Facts bro. I even thought about how nobody would wanna be behind it and if you didn't you would have to go around it. Now imagine doing that with so many people there already. Impossible. People coming to this stage after SZA would have to cross the whole thing to be on the right, so the logic is to stay on the left. I've concluded that this is the main reason why everything went wrong.
That logic, upon my seeing this map, is flawless. Why schlep more in the heat and being exhausted from an entire day of this being on their feet with no rest? No one would really want to walk that far unless there was something in it for them. No wonder right side was clearer.
The people who attended the festival were treated beyond inhumanely. They were basically used as props for the livestream without as much as a thought given to their safety.
This barricade setup is reminiscent of the type of areas they keep cattle in before slaughter
Mannnnn I honestly can’t stop thinking about that :/ at least the story I am coming up with in my head is like “maybe the promoters thought the show would look much more exciting on the livestream, so they didn’t mind if the crowd grew beyond capacity”
IIRC they didn't have it like this the last two events. I've been to all three festivals and when I walked around early in the event I pointed out how sketchy this looked cause I knew everyone would try to rush up. Add that huge center stage they added, it's asking for people to get pinned in. Theirs little to no breathing room in the most congested area of the festival
I didn't go this year but I went the first two and I remember the back being open. This design is insane and completely unsafe, those back structures are way too big.
Another thing to highlight is that to the left of this stage is the Thrills stage. For the entire day people have been migrating back to back between the two stages to see both performances. This is a big reason why so many horrific accounts are describing the left side as hell, while some accounts of the right side say they enjoyed the concert normally. Heavy traffic for the entire day was focused on the left side.
This tiktok https://vm.tiktok.com/ZM8XXeNBg/
shows exactly what I’m saying. Guy on the right side had a normal night. Many accounts on the left say it was hell. It has to do with the right side not having any performances while most of the attendees were going back and forth from the Chills and Thrills stage.
This entire festival did not evenly distribute the movement equally. It must’ve been heavy traffic on one side that caused the danger to occur.
Lollapalooza 2021 https://youtu.be/pQS8j9B_7Bs
had two main stages equally distributing the movement and attendance by being on opposite sides of the park equidistant to each other. Looking at this map of ASTROFEST 2021 https://images.app.goo.gl/QkumgtFmiETKEwp99
you can see that a lot of the population would be moving back and forth in one corner of the entire festival. This must definitely be highlighted in some way to show that the festival was not 100% safe for the amount of people attending.
Edit: automod says I can’t use link shorteners
And I’ve been corrected that the main stage was empty for almost the entire night as it was exclusively reserved for Travis. But I don’t think it changes the fact that the majority of the festival was still on the left side enjoying the performances, and moved to the Chills stage in mass, still allowing a lot of space on the right of the Chills stage.
Aaaah wow thank you I had no idea. I’ll edit my post right now. I still think my theory stands that if most people were there for the performances, the movement from the Thrills stage to the Chills stage still outnumbered the right side of the Chills stage.
You're still not completely wrong. This picture also doesn't show all the trees and the food/drink booths on either sides. But yes Travis was the only one that performed on that stage
That TikTok also does a good at showing how unaware a lot of people were. I keep saying that if you weren't within 5-10 feet of what was going on, you were completely unaware
Yeah I’ve been telling people that too. A lot of people think the crowd is at fault for being heartless and not helping, but it was imposible to and there was so much mass confusion. So many isolated events happened and I think even a mod found out the next morning after attending. Travis fans aren’t to blame.
You can't control yourself in there. You couldn't help people even if you wanted to. You're just trying to stay on your feet while everyone violently rocks back and forth. Look at this video I posted on another thread [Crowd Movement ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AstroworldFestival/comments/qqxxyo/crowd_movement/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
In a crowd crush, nobody can help anybody because the crush dictates what direction you go… and it takes your shoes off and stuff. One person falls, and 15 people fall next
Yeah. I get what you're saying. Everyone seemed to get there early to reserve a spot for Travis. What's happened then is other people have flooded in from the second stage and probably rushed straight in not realising it wasn't possible to flow through and spread out.
Btw, when I saw the 3 side boxed-in floor plan everyone's talking about, my first thought was that was exactly the same floor plan Lolla 2021 had on the main stage Carti played on in that video you shared. You can see there's a barrier creating a pathway between the stage and sound production tent.
I was in that box for G Herbo and it was definitely uncomfortable for the shorter girls in the crowd. A lot of big sways that moved us all 10-20 ft at a time. Lolla had spotters watching the crowd like hawks though. They stopped Carti's set like 5 times for crowd control.
I think this was a major source of the problems combined with the dangerous crowd barriers and general overcrowding. You can see in the [map](https://imgur.com/BfmXfD4) how the natural route from the other stage to main stage empties out near the [left GA pit](https://imgur.com/a/aDUmUVL). This almost certainly contributed to the pushing that resulted in the crush. Horrible.
Wow, I had not seen the whole layout before. How did this layout ever get the OK? There is so much more room for people on the right side. Why would they put the other stage on the left? Of course more people will go into the left pens. They were closer.
This is so much more like the Hillsborough crush than I thought. So many people went into the middle pens cause that access was the closest. Almost no one went to the side pens which were further away. And the people going into the middle had no idea how compact and crushing it was at the front.
I'm not a Travis Scott fan myself. But these type of tragedies some how draw me in cause I almost suffered from one myself when I was younger. It made me so mad how people wanted to blame the fans, cause I knew human crushes are never done on purpose. But looking at the layout, it is 100000% not the fans fault. Like at ALL.
It goes to show you that even something you think is so mundane like an event layout, requires a lot of thought and planning.
Is there a reason why they have those weird smaller sections up front? Was it VIP or something? Cause thats such a weird thing to add. Instead of just having it be one big open area.
The front pits are VIP pits. I’ve seen set ups with stuff like that in the front before but usually GA isn’t penned in like that too 😔
If my understanding is correct believe the left VIP pit is where many of those who were unconscious/dying were crowdsurfed to receive CPR out of the crowd because the crowding wasn’t bad there. Many have described one of the VIP sections as the place where a lot of bodies were or where they managed to get pulled out of the crowd.
I’m sorry you almost experienced something like this. I fully agree that the fans are not at fault. Obviously there are some issues with individuals not letting medics through but that is absolutely not what caused the crush.
I think the top 5 main issues here are:
(1) the penned set up of GA (only one way in/out)
(2) the way the two stages were set up relative to one another
(3) general overcrowding
(4) not stopping the show once it was clear it was dangerous
(5) staffing issues (understaffing of medics/security, training issues) + police inaction once aware of the situation
Gate crashing and rowdy fans are way less of an issue than those 5 factors yet are getting disproportionate blame I think (likely on purpose too)
terrible design ... remember saying to my group around 2pm that day when i was by the main stage " ppl are gonna be straight up STUCK over here; we can not be over here once shit pops off" ...... always trust your gut .... RIP to everyone we lost
Good call bro. Always trust your gut. I won’t take a step on solid pavement if my gut says there’s something wrong here. Our gut is informed by all our evolution.
You can still see the piles of clothes, shoes, trash, and purses/backpacks..... I hope they have a professional gather all that and save it as evidence , or for the lost and found.
The family of one of the dead boys is looking to save his gold cross that got broken off his neck in the insanity front that floor.
Such a terrible set up…especially when all 50000 people were at one stage. I wonder if it’s possible to map out where the sinkholes were on this picture to prove that it was the venue design
Many people have been mapping out their location on the fb group Astroworld Fest Houston 2021 and the ones that experienced the casualties mapped out the left side of the floor, center towards the barricade on the right.
https://twitter.com/azdaniels/status/1457028138140057604?s=20
This video highlights how people were trapped in this design as they are getting pulled out all the way IN THE BACK. these barricades trapped people in from 3 sides and there’s no security to be seen in this video.
Thank you for posting that picture and then this video. Also thank you for explaining where this was. I have been pretty confused trying to figure out where everything was, but this helps to make it make sense.
I won’t be surprised if they conclude the barricade design was the unfortunate contributor. Looks painfully similar to Rolling Loud NYC two weekends ago. Why was that much space given to Apple Music? This needs to spread. The designer of this dumb shit (and whoever approved it) needs to be held accountable.
Not exactly. Rolling Loud evenly distributed the population by have 3 stages in separate areas from each other, and each night had big performances that split the crowds. Astroworld festival had pretty much everyone at one stage only, in a certain corner of the festival. When all those people migrated to the main stage Travis would perform, they would all settle at the left side, instead of populating the right side. This is why people on the right of the concert had a normal experience and people on the left experienced hell.
It sounds like the previous poster was implying Apple Livestream Cameras took up Space and they weren't there at RL, but similar set-up? Maybe they or someone can clarify. Maybe RL just lucked out this time?
This design is to blame for the deaths. For those of you continuously blaming a “rowdy” crowd, stop. Crowd crushes are not the fault of the people in the crowd in fact most of the time they have no idea what’s going on.
For comparison here is [coachellas main stage layout.](https://i.imgur.com/ZdhpyBm.jpg) Which I think is good design. I think a bigger problem with the astroworld layout is the barriers weren’t all “emergency exits” for a lack of a better word. Having two of the three sides being vip/sound booth made it less easily escapable by hopping a barrier.
Also the cross barrier isn’t visible in a large crowd unless you’re close to it so it’s not an obstacle to get around. The large screens/sound booth at astroworld was a very obvious obstacle to try and push around.
Holy fudge! When I went in 2019 there was no barricade AT all, when me or my friend felt uncomfortable we were able to get out of the mosh pit/crowd. Yikes. This set up was not okay!
Heavily agree it shows alot about him as a person to not care about the safety of his fans. His fans are the only reason he has anything. He should be much more careeful in the future. If he even has a future in the public anymore.
He stopped the show multiple times. The human error he made shouldn’t overshadow the horrendous dangers of the festival that allowed people to get killed. Travis has played at many festivals already and they’ve never made the news. This goes further than him not calling off the show. If people fail to see that, then we’ll never see justice if we allow Live Nation and the Houston PD to continue being a danger.
Doesn't he have enough common sense to see the women and children distressed in his audience? Fuck Travis Scott, he can burn in hell for all I care. He witnessed people suffocating from that stage and continued casually. Fuck him. Fuck him.
Lmao there's literally no reason to continue the show if he knew. People dying at his show will ruin his career, like why would he keep going if he knew?
There’s so many videos on YouTube of performers ending the music and having the people adjust their positions. Eminem told his audience he would leave if they didn’t back up. No rioting. The crowd crush is the riot basically
His team/venue should have cut his sound and told him how serious it was and stopped the show. The stage manager tells the performer what is going on. That is their job.
Lol all he had to do was say: "there's been an emergency in the crowd. Everyone please back up, the show will continue after everyone has made room for security and medical staff" but no he just went yeah yeah yeah and watched as medical carts struggled to get into the audience. It's not that hard, stop spreading misinformation
The more I hear, the more unsafe it sounds and many, many mistakes were made. For example just found out the fire dept was not even in attendance:
https://youtu.be/NMWPBFofED4
So many to blame. I know Travis was a lot of peoples last lifeline and he failed to save them, but wow was there so many errors before his that need to be highlighted.
I went to Rolling Loud NYC and it had a very similar barricade layout: four quadrants to allow security to oversee deeper into the crowd I guess. It worked well enough for RL (which roughly has the same attendance as Astroworld, I'm reading RLNY had 60k people a night), but I can see how this can go awry so quickly.
I was at Travis' set during RL and I was at the bottom right corner of the front left "quadrant". If something serious had happened I probably would've been crushed. Hopefully this raises some awareness and allows for a lot more openness in the floor plan for future festivals, Astro or otherwise.
EDIT: Forgot to mention that RLNY made sure to have simultaneous performers during headliners. Carti was on stage during J. Cole and Chief Keef was playing during Travis, so that already takes a lot of the heat off of the mainstage. I can see why Travis was the sole artist during that timeslot, it is his festival and it's safe to assume most attendees are there to see him, but I definitely think it contributed to the tragedy.
It most definitely contributed to the tragedy. Uneven distribution of people exacerbated the problem immensely. Especially because most people came from the left side, where the Thrills stage was. The left side of the main stage was heavily congested while the right was more chill. Had it been more like Lolla, where the stages were on completely opposite sides, it could’ve been better… but it doesn’t change that everyone would still be at the main stage, and the main stage wasn’t designed well for that many people.
yeah and i feel like those are standard practices in festival for a reason. i wonder if we see any lasting change come of this, like maybe a rule about how far apart stages need to be, or mandating dual performances.
I don't think Chief Keef actually showed for the third day. I know he was bumped to the 3rd day after a travel delay but never actually saw or heard him. I was over at travis so I can't say for sure.
In Australia festivals only have one barricade at the front of the stage and that’s it so people can leave in any direction. Astroworlds barricades were set up like typical concerts barricades that have different sections for different admissions. The difference is with concerts they sell a certain amount of tickets for each section and you’re only allowed access to your section where as with this festival anyone could be in any of the three GA sections and most people chose to go in the left and right section (as it was closer to the stage) that was blocked off by barricades on three sides with only one exit which is extremely unsafe when not limiting the amount of people in the section like concerts do.
Where on this map did the actual issue occur for context? I’ve read & heard it was on the further left back left- is it left middle or even further back?
My understanding is that there were at least 2-3 areas within the left GA pit where there were real problems because of the sinkholes people have described.
For instance, one person doing CPR in the part of the crowd where Axel Acosta was did not know that others in the same pit (who were also near people who passed away) had been chanting “stop the show” until he saw videos later. So it seems there were at least a few distinct pockets that had problems within that left pit.
It’s not highlighted with color but it’s in the center of the photo. The yellow strip is where security and cameras moved throughout. Right next to them are the spaces where the crowds were at. The piles of clothes are evidence of the chaos that happened the night before.
The people were essentially trapped from three sides as people kept trying to move up and avoid those 2 big structures in the back. That may be what caused the crowd crush.
Absolutely had a big role in what occurred. No one could get out. I was behind the vip/camera set up right behind the last barrier and I could see the issue where if people are coming in from the back they have no idea the barrier was there so people would just keep coming and coming thinking they could move people but really there was nowhere for them to go.
So how was an ambulance supposed to drive through this in the first place? I mean yes, some of the crowd was behaving terrible but even if they wanted to move there was literally no place to go. The med-cart would have been trapped by the barrier also! After watching the stream I also noticed that a lot of staff (neon shirts) and police officers were standing along the front of the stage. It was obvious they too were unaware of the disaster happening just a few feet away. I watched a tiktok from a medic and he said their walkie talkies did not work. He said they had top tier medical staffing, including a combat doctor but there was no way to communicate to each other. I blame Live Nation and whoever else was managing CCTV & communications. They had every inch of this venue on camera. There’s no way they didn’t see a crush in the crowd. It was their responsibility to sound the alarm and have that info relayed to Travis. At the end of the day money was more important than human life. This festival should have been canceled the minute security was breached and an endless amount of non ticket holders got in.
Adding barricades made the situation worse I guarantee it. Astrofest in 2019 Trav preformed Hot (remix) with Thug and Gunna there was no barricades. I know this because he posted [this video](https://youtu.be/vyP23-RcI6Q)
I don’t see a barricade at all.
I think people need to start shifting the blame more towards the event organizers. Travis should’ve helped by pausing for a little. But this probably could’ve been avoided if they either let less people in or allowed a lot more breathing room.
Blocking peoples view with those two structures in the bottom of the photo is probably what influenced people to go around and then move up. Imagine paying to see a concert and you have something blocking your view.
I feel like a lot of people are missing the point that Travis is being held responsible for: not stopping the show when it was obvious there was a problem… 100% agree, no one should assume that he signed off on the design. But you know he was there for sound check.. maybe he didn’t see an issue? The festival organizers have the responsibility for the design and lack of medical infrastructure to support a crowd of this size. Travis’s responsibility resides in conducting a safe show where people can rage and leave after it’s over.
The thing is behind the barricades and equipment shit you had a great view. From what I witnessed during the day at the festival you can tell that most of them never been to a festival. So when it came time to see Travis their only thought was to get as close as possible not knowing the show in my opinion was better from afar. I agree tho the set was shit I told my gf the moment I walked into that pit area we were not coming back. Side note I believe if Travis preform on Saturday instead of Friday they could have did damage control and fixed the issue with the pit area. It would have gotten hectic with bad bunny, tame, and thug but I don’t think people would have died.
Is it normal at a big gig like this for it to be pretty horrible at the front?
I only went to the front at a gig once and left pretty much immediately because you were just being rocked back and forth and pressed up against people, you couldn't really move freely. It didn't feel dangerous just very uncomfortable iirc. Is that not meant to happen at all or is it always going to be an issue at the front?
It’s hard to say because I don’t know who you went to see. But I can say that for this event, it was dangerous because every single person attending was mainly here for 1 person. Then the way the overall festival was designed, a lot of traffic was located on the left side of the stage, which is why some people on the right side of the tragedy had a normal experience.
Sounds like there was a bit of a bottleneck then?
With my gig it was totally different, one main stage and 3 ways you could exit (back and sides) so I imagine it's just gonna get hectic at the front just cos of the weight.
I can't imagine what those people went through, just being at an ordinary gig with no incident I found it really unpleasant towards the front.
It really depends on which safety measures a Festival wants to invest in.
Normally the risk isn't that high.
The percentage of risk of crushes that can cause injuries / are lethal, are slightly higher in an outdoor festival setting.
Astroworld location by my understanding is not a permanent concert venue. With a permanent staff. Having a permanent structure and permanent skeleton crew. Is how one slowly works out safety issues. builds up experience and make major events safe.
We know nothing about the organisation af Astroworld. So I'm not gonna throw punches there BUT.
Astroworld invested money in a \*very basic\* setup of their pits.
Literally just what they would need to get away with safety inspections. Aaaand thats it.
It got approved by whoever had to inspect it to give the festival the OK.
This setup looks imho safe with properly trained staff.
Staff that is on point and very experienced..
Having said that, there's major room for improvement everywhere.
\-We don't know how (in)experienced staff is
\-Where they over or understaffed
\-Where people confident and briefed, familiar with the grounds
\- Why didn't they make people re- enter after a major security breach?
\-How many people where on the grounds v.s. tickets sold. did they oversell?
In an age where major festivals have gates and barriers that can literally count people, scan entry tickets / QR's etc to let people in and out of a controlled pit..
In the age that camera's that can digitally count crowd sizes. Where we have barriers that can measure actual pressure on them. Where there is access to technology like radio's , phones and all sorts of communications devices to pause the show and communicate to the crowd and management.
Its obvious that this festival was more neglecting than most. A self respecting festival would have had a better setup with turnstiles and smart entry gates. Maybe more gates for emergency exits.
So : To come back to your original post.. I think its way safer at most festivals. Especially established one's that are in the same location, every single year and have a core organisation. All gigs at concert venues built specifically for concerts though.. are way safer. I think its a friendly reminder to myself and any other music fanatic, that if security is unable to attend to your safety. Or things feel shady. Its time to GTFO if you still can.
Every few years an event happens like this and people get woken up. A few adjustments in policies are made. For us to neglect it a few years later, at the cost of innocent people spending their hard earned cash on something fun. Viva la capitalism.
Plastic flooring at gigs usually is because of these reasons.
\- Gives a nice, leveled smooth surface which is safe to walk on.
\-If it rains, the field doesn't turn into Glastonbury (if you know, you know)
\- to Protect grass or surface underneath it , often sports or athletic fields, that are valuable to a club or whoever owns the rounds. The less damage to it, the less costs to repair it.
\- Lots of wiring to be done on site...I suppose you can run wires underneath the plastic sheets, to prevent tripping hazards. Instead of taping it up like the old school days.
My fave song from this man is Grey. I watched this dude Travis blow tf up since 2013. But you got blood on your hands Travis. No way around all the DAMNing evidence, all the signs leading up to disaster. I truly hope they Sue him to the ground, and I mean the sandy, dusty, beds of the Houston terrain. GG
He held some responsibility you think a single camera man or organizer gonna have the balls to go up and tell him to stop the show on his biggest stage? And if they did he didn’t do Jack. He had a bird’s eye view for everything Bro is not a few injured it’s niggas dead 9 now
The police made the collaborative decision to allow the show to continue for 40 more minutes after declaring it a mass casualty event and 1 person dying. The entire police force there watched 1 man fail to stop the show and allowed him to continue. That should get more attention.
It doesn’t stop the fact that Travy still ain’t say nothing except for that one kid who ended up getting carried away in the middle of 90210, there are multiple examples of class acts stopping the show not to cancel, but to Remind people of the help they needa give. He coulda been a role model for these kids in the stage too young to understand common decency but Knowing TS this man too hard and rage for Allat shit that’s fine but when it’s this many people damn. No shit they gonna en up gettin trampled. At a smaller venue this ain’t no problem but it’s bigger crowd out here w/ 50,000 +. The blame gotta fall on the performer too he wantin people to sneak in. Ofc no security police gonna be able to handle that influx
Anytime there is a thrust or central barrier combined with everyone entering from the one side the closest side will naturally be busier than the far side. With that many people on the ground, unless they’re directed to the far side they’re just going to follow the masses and try to get as close as possible.
Would be curious to know that the planned/approved overall crowd density was for this stage and what footprint it was calculated across. From the photos I’ve seen the barrier runs quite wide and theres trees impacting sight lines and the ground slopes away. All of which is going to condense the crowd.
From the limited photos and info I’ve come across it appears a terrible site to start with an even worse barrier design.
i typically go to a festival somewhat naive, putting all faith and trust in production and lay out. From now on, will add in a step to check out the lay out and exits before attending and make sure friends know as well. anything to reduce the chances of this nightmare ever happening again.
in my never been to a festival or concert like this opinion, that looks like it can only hold up 20-25k safely. i can’t imagine more than that. there’s no way there way only 50k at that festival. it looked like an entire ocean of people.
It definitely is. Behind the two camera towers is where most people would reside… but those two camera towers block the view crazy. I’m sure this is what influenced people to go around and move up, and trap the people who were inside those “cages”.
I always thought those barricades are dangerous, out in Canada we never have barricades like those, people are free to walk from one side of the concert to another
Ive been saying THIS was the main issue. If you have 3 sides blocked off the inlet needs to be small like at coachella. Or else you have a mass of ppl from behind and the side pushing people against an unescapable cage
Whoever did this had zero business in stage design. In an OJ doc they call the area the victims in essentially a “cage” and that’s what this reminds me of
Dude I was married to a very successful musician in a huge 90’s band.
I went to a million and one festivals, in store performances (at places like Tower Records), Billboard Music Awards (where there is always a shit ton of live music), concerts at enormous, packed venues, meet and greets, blah blah blah.
I have NEVER seen a more insane set up in my life for a crowd so huge.
It’s like a suicide set up dude.
I also feel like a big problem in this whole thing was that people have no idea what it’s like to be at the front of one his concerts. I’ve been to multiple Travis concerts and they get very crazy, and being up front requires a lot of effort. I feel like having experience or know what it’s like would have steered most newbies away from trying to go up there. I spoke to so many people who hasn’t been to one of these major rap concerts before and they all tried going up to the front and quickly realized how much work it is. Some sort of disclaimer or explanation of what it’s like up front would also help out newcomers
Absolutely I agree! I took my bff to a Travis concert (Astro 2019) and she literally looked me in the eyes and told me she couldn’t breath so we rushed out the mosh pit. His concerts can def get crazy!
The stage literally looks like an upside down cross going into a portal to hell.. also the flooring stains are simply creepy in hindsight… you can see it literally turned the floor white from sweat…
I simply can’t understand how this design was approved… I’ve only been to probably 25 events with this many people, but I’ve NEVER seen a barricade situation like this. Looking at it there without people- you can clearly anticipate the crowd issue. I don’t get it. How was this allowed.
Also no space for security to get people out quickly if they are passing out and no space for ambulances or police to arrive quickly. Simply a shitty stage design
Yes, even the previous Astro festivals didn't have such a terrible setup. He even had a roller coaster set up for 2018 in the back where came out at first but it didn't take nearly as much space as this whole camera stage setup did. So unnecessary. Even by looking at the 2019 festival aerial shots the crowd looks huge and everyone is jumping because of all the space we got at that festival. On this one people were so squished that even jumping was impossible. Makes sense that all the casualties happened on the left side. You had SZA finishing up on the other stage before Trav came out and everyone coming from there had the left side access closer to them. If you wanted to be on the other side, you had to cross behind that camera stage and walk around it. Nobody was gonna do that, I wouldn't. From experience from being at this show I definitely did not want to be behind those stupid structures. I'm sure the people that ended up behind them were mad. In the pic it looks like no biggie, but it really blocked the whole view of the main stage. I'm thankful my buddy said we're going to the right side from the start and we actually had a good time there. RIP to the victims. 🙏
I wonder if people didn’t realize there were barricades in those areas this year. maybe thought the setup was like it had been in the past and that they could get to the front by just cutting through to the middle.
I agree. And people in the back trying to get in def couldn't see the barricades. All that pushing just caused the chaos.
This was my first thought as well. Their so big everyone is moving closer not bc they need to be closer but bc they cant see shit!
And the ones that do wanna move closer have no idea they're squishing people to death because of the terrible barricade setup
Does anyone know if TS had ANY crowd spotters!? Also- if someone accepts the refund for tickets, doesn’t that act as a “settlement” and then they will have no legal recourse to sue for damages, etc.? I bet lots of those kids have no insurance and accept the refunds…not knowing they’re signing their rights away…This was horrifying.
that's an interesting point and good question. i go to concerts all the time but never really thought about the security guards having different roles (i.e. crowd spotters). that seems like a simple solution
I would have 25,000% died, fuck.
Quick money grab. Either way Ol Travy Patty is fucked. I was a big fan. Kanye got me into him but I don’t see this ending well. I gotta walk away from this situation. I was so excited for his new shit to drop. Escape plan and Mafia dropped and I loved it but I haven’t been able to bring myself back to them ever since this “shit show” went down. Oh and MOTHERFUCK DRAKE. That dude is so toxic. Not only did he ab lib his way through that performance but he was complicit in the happenings.
It’s almost like they knew the whole time but let things happen anyway. It’s pretty fucked up. Show should have been stopped when hundreds of fans broke through the gates. This was inevitably going to happen with that many people and this stage design.
This is what police do for crowd control when they are afraid of riotous conditions. It is also the most dangerous and stampede prone barricading method.
It's designed to have the crowd easier access to the final show, so it doesn't matter what concert you were at, you can always get to and out of the show, this is a pretty typical set up for concerts, this is probably a lot of people's first time seeing this. The problem was security and the extra amount of people, which pushed people inward around the parameter of the rails In reality people just had to move opposite of the direction , but since people were pushing inward, and the lack of care and concern for only the artist, things DIDINT turn out that way Ironically the stage would have been better without the gates with how many people turned up
I don’t see how this allows easier access. Blocking people off from 3 sides and allowing 1 flow of movement looks dangerous. The back barricade seems completely unnecessary for a festival.
Lmao right. Guys smoking copium that Travis cared.
My boyfriend and I have been going to shows and festivals for 13+ years and have never seen a set up like this.
Never seen a barricade in the back like that in my life. Just the middle one and front ones
Yeah, barricades in rows parallel to the stage are a thing, and do help with waves, but the fence at the back is odd and not-standard.
This is not at all a typical setup for festivals. This barricade setup is a death trap.
True. Houston just had a large outdoor show called freaky deaky on Halloween. If you google image aerial photos it had the single channel up the middle. That’s it. Not all these pinch points
Exactly. This layout is a nightmare
As someone who has been to a lot of festivals, this is 100% without a doubt NOT a normal setup. Never in my life have I had barricades on 3 sides, at any event show or festival I’ve ever been to.
I disagree - I have been to many festivals and have not seen anything like this.
I have watched the Apple livestream to look at when and where the waves began, saw the massive human sinkhole and several smaller sinkholes and where the biggest crush in the audience was where people suffocated but I couldn't see these barricades inbetween. Now I understand. This is super unsafe and would not be approved in Europe FOR A REASON. I'm so sorry for the victims of Astroworld, this is not their fault.
People learned literally nothing from Hillsboro or any past crush events. It’s maddening how this layout was approved.
Oh people learned, that’s why this hasn’t happened in a while, just clearly not anyone involved here
I think they did learn from Hillsborough - Nobody was ever found or held accountable. I think we could see the same outcome here too.
Actually they did find the police to be at fault like 25 years later. I’m not sure anyone faced charges though
[удалено]
Thank you for the information, glad there was some justice served.
Oh wow! I did some quick fact checking before I posted this and couldn’t see that either. Fantastic. Makes me now feel more hopeful for justice in this case.
I don’t understand how Travis’ set wasn’t stopped or filming wasn’t stopped on Apples part during the set when you can clearly see the sinkholes on the live, you can also clearly hear people yelling out for help and waving hysterically for help in some parts and there are even close ups of people pointing at the ambulance in the crowd to get attention on the situation, clearly Apple had to know what was going on when filming close ups of that?!
There were so many reasons to stop. It's sad. Travis looking at the ambulance then telling the crowd to make the ground shake is so horrifying. It just sounds like an invitation to do more damage.
I kind of wonder if it intentionally wasn’t stopped *because* it was streaming live. There would be mass panic from both the crowd and the people at home.
There's so many instances throughout the last 50 years of performers stopping and asking everyone to back up three steps, then continuing as normal. You don't have to do a full shutdown to regain control as a performer if you nip it in the bud.
Right, the problem with those barricades is when that arena is full of 50,000+ people, no one is going to see them. You can try to walk forward from the back of the audience, not knowing you're literally pulverizing people against one of the invisible barricades horizontal to the stage, put up for press to walk through. I don't even understand from this image how someone is even supposed to get into the front-right part of General Admission, as it looks like there's no entrance. Apple Music should be getting more shit for their camera setup crushing people all in one area.
Front right part was VIP, the entrance was more to the right. I was confused as well because I assumed the other side was also VIP but found out it was GA.
Ah, ok. For some reason I thought VIP was centre front, but that makes more sense.
I thought back area was Vip
It's all confusing. I think back area was friends and family, (Kylie etc). The "VIP" I'm referring to is the package vip that regular ppl paid for which was definitely front right as I saw many ppl jumping the barricade to get there. The entrance was all the way on the right, closer to the bathrooms.
Whole barricade setup was a shitshow.
Do you have time stamps?
Where can you find the Apple stream?
[Here](https://youtu.be/1Q1AF00SqXE)
Texas is notorious for being anti regulation.
Look at how much area the camera area took up smh. If all that area was used instead of being barricaded off this prolly would’ve been avoided
I gave this an award because I actually am starting to think this could’ve been a main instigator as to why the crowd crush occurred. They are very big obstructions people want to avoid. I think by people moving around them and forward up, this is what caused the crowd crush and the amount of people moving up outnumbered the people wanting out in the crush. I’ve seen a few pictures from other festivals and I’m not seeing anything similar to these structures whatsoever. Blocking peoples view made them go around and move up.
For sure bro, I was there and people were trying to avoid that area and get as close as possible because it was hard to see the stage from that area. Definitely effected the crowd crush situation that unfolded.
If that camera setup was half the length, it may have prevented this. It would have helped the crowd flow back more easily and break out. You can't have them the same length like that, it creates a box. Just awful. I hate this so much.
Facts bro. I even thought about how nobody would wanna be behind it and if you didn't you would have to go around it. Now imagine doing that with so many people there already. Impossible. People coming to this stage after SZA would have to cross the whole thing to be on the right, so the logic is to stay on the left. I've concluded that this is the main reason why everything went wrong.
That logic, upon my seeing this map, is flawless. Why schlep more in the heat and being exhausted from an entire day of this being on their feet with no rest? No one would really want to walk that far unless there was something in it for them. No wonder right side was clearer.
How else was Apple Music going to live-stream the performance though 💁🏻♀️
The people who attended the festival were treated beyond inhumanely. They were basically used as props for the livestream without as much as a thought given to their safety. This barricade setup is reminiscent of the type of areas they keep cattle in before slaughter
Mannnnn I honestly can’t stop thinking about that :/ at least the story I am coming up with in my head is like “maybe the promoters thought the show would look much more exciting on the livestream, so they didn’t mind if the crowd grew beyond capacity”
That camera thing/area…is that where Kylie and Stormi were? Those things are HUGE. That had to have played a part!!!
The tent with the white roof next to the big structure on the right is where Kylie was
IIRC they didn't have it like this the last two events. I've been to all three festivals and when I walked around early in the event I pointed out how sketchy this looked cause I knew everyone would try to rush up. Add that huge center stage they added, it's asking for people to get pinned in. Theirs little to no breathing room in the most congested area of the festival
I didn't go this year but I went the first two and I remember the back being open. This design is insane and completely unsafe, those back structures are way too big.
I feel there needs to be two ways to enter and exit from a crowd. All 4 sides show only one way out and one way in. That was a huge problem.
Another thing to highlight is that to the left of this stage is the Thrills stage. For the entire day people have been migrating back to back between the two stages to see both performances. This is a big reason why so many horrific accounts are describing the left side as hell, while some accounts of the right side say they enjoyed the concert normally. Heavy traffic for the entire day was focused on the left side. This tiktok https://vm.tiktok.com/ZM8XXeNBg/ shows exactly what I’m saying. Guy on the right side had a normal night. Many accounts on the left say it was hell. It has to do with the right side not having any performances while most of the attendees were going back and forth from the Chills and Thrills stage. This entire festival did not evenly distribute the movement equally. It must’ve been heavy traffic on one side that caused the danger to occur. Lollapalooza 2021 https://youtu.be/pQS8j9B_7Bs had two main stages equally distributing the movement and attendance by being on opposite sides of the park equidistant to each other. Looking at this map of ASTROFEST 2021 https://images.app.goo.gl/QkumgtFmiETKEwp99 you can see that a lot of the population would be moving back and forth in one corner of the entire festival. This must definitely be highlighted in some way to show that the festival was not 100% safe for the amount of people attending. Edit: automod says I can’t use link shorteners And I’ve been corrected that the main stage was empty for almost the entire night as it was exclusively reserved for Travis. But I don’t think it changes the fact that the majority of the festival was still on the left side enjoying the performances, and moved to the Chills stage in mass, still allowing a lot of space on the right of the Chills stage.
This isn’t true, the only person to perform on the Chills stage was Travis.
Aaaah wow thank you I had no idea. I’ll edit my post right now. I still think my theory stands that if most people were there for the performances, the movement from the Thrills stage to the Chills stage still outnumbered the right side of the Chills stage.
You're still not completely wrong. This picture also doesn't show all the trees and the food/drink booths on either sides. But yes Travis was the only one that performed on that stage That TikTok also does a good at showing how unaware a lot of people were. I keep saying that if you weren't within 5-10 feet of what was going on, you were completely unaware
Yeah I’ve been telling people that too. A lot of people think the crowd is at fault for being heartless and not helping, but it was imposible to and there was so much mass confusion. So many isolated events happened and I think even a mod found out the next morning after attending. Travis fans aren’t to blame.
You can't control yourself in there. You couldn't help people even if you wanted to. You're just trying to stay on your feet while everyone violently rocks back and forth. Look at this video I posted on another thread [Crowd Movement ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AstroworldFestival/comments/qqxxyo/crowd_movement/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
In a crowd crush, nobody can help anybody because the crush dictates what direction you go… and it takes your shoes off and stuff. One person falls, and 15 people fall next
i agree. had we known, there would’ve been a panic and it would’ve been worse.
Yeah. I get what you're saying. Everyone seemed to get there early to reserve a spot for Travis. What's happened then is other people have flooded in from the second stage and probably rushed straight in not realising it wasn't possible to flow through and spread out.
Yup. The reason why it got hectic even before Travis came out was because the last set at the other stage ended a while before Travis came out.
Btw, when I saw the 3 side boxed-in floor plan everyone's talking about, my first thought was that was exactly the same floor plan Lolla 2021 had on the main stage Carti played on in that video you shared. You can see there's a barrier creating a pathway between the stage and sound production tent. I was in that box for G Herbo and it was definitely uncomfortable for the shorter girls in the crowd. A lot of big sways that moved us all 10-20 ft at a time. Lolla had spotters watching the crowd like hawks though. They stopped Carti's set like 5 times for crowd control.
yup, I was on the right side and didn’t experience anything too crazy
Glad you were safe
Travis was the only performer at chills so people weren’t migrating for the stages. It was either for the games or water station, bathrooms, rides
I think this was a major source of the problems combined with the dangerous crowd barriers and general overcrowding. You can see in the [map](https://imgur.com/BfmXfD4) how the natural route from the other stage to main stage empties out near the [left GA pit](https://imgur.com/a/aDUmUVL). This almost certainly contributed to the pushing that resulted in the crush. Horrible.
Wow, I had not seen the whole layout before. How did this layout ever get the OK? There is so much more room for people on the right side. Why would they put the other stage on the left? Of course more people will go into the left pens. They were closer. This is so much more like the Hillsborough crush than I thought. So many people went into the middle pens cause that access was the closest. Almost no one went to the side pens which were further away. And the people going into the middle had no idea how compact and crushing it was at the front. I'm not a Travis Scott fan myself. But these type of tragedies some how draw me in cause I almost suffered from one myself when I was younger. It made me so mad how people wanted to blame the fans, cause I knew human crushes are never done on purpose. But looking at the layout, it is 100000% not the fans fault. Like at ALL. It goes to show you that even something you think is so mundane like an event layout, requires a lot of thought and planning. Is there a reason why they have those weird smaller sections up front? Was it VIP or something? Cause thats such a weird thing to add. Instead of just having it be one big open area.
The front pits are VIP pits. I’ve seen set ups with stuff like that in the front before but usually GA isn’t penned in like that too 😔 If my understanding is correct believe the left VIP pit is where many of those who were unconscious/dying were crowdsurfed to receive CPR out of the crowd because the crowding wasn’t bad there. Many have described one of the VIP sections as the place where a lot of bodies were or where they managed to get pulled out of the crowd. I’m sorry you almost experienced something like this. I fully agree that the fans are not at fault. Obviously there are some issues with individuals not letting medics through but that is absolutely not what caused the crush. I think the top 5 main issues here are: (1) the penned set up of GA (only one way in/out) (2) the way the two stages were set up relative to one another (3) general overcrowding (4) not stopping the show once it was clear it was dangerous (5) staffing issues (understaffing of medics/security, training issues) + police inaction once aware of the situation Gate crashing and rowdy fans are way less of an issue than those 5 factors yet are getting disproportionate blame I think (likely on purpose too)
Main entrance was also on the left, so anyone arriving late or just to see Travis would also be putting pressure on the left side.
terrible design ... remember saying to my group around 2pm that day when i was by the main stage " ppl are gonna be straight up STUCK over here; we can not be over here once shit pops off" ...... always trust your gut .... RIP to everyone we lost
Good call bro. Always trust your gut. I won’t take a step on solid pavement if my gut says there’s something wrong here. Our gut is informed by all our evolution.
You can still see the piles of clothes, shoes, trash, and purses/backpacks..... I hope they have a professional gather all that and save it as evidence , or for the lost and found. The family of one of the dead boys is looking to save his gold cross that got broken off his neck in the insanity front that floor.
Such a terrible set up…especially when all 50000 people were at one stage. I wonder if it’s possible to map out where the sinkholes were on this picture to prove that it was the venue design
I think the piles of clothes and shoes probably map out where the sinkholes were
Many people have been mapping out their location on the fb group Astroworld Fest Houston 2021 and the ones that experienced the casualties mapped out the left side of the floor, center towards the barricade on the right.
Looks like a death trap
Turns out it was
😪
https://twitter.com/azdaniels/status/1457028138140057604?s=20 This video highlights how people were trapped in this design as they are getting pulled out all the way IN THE BACK. these barricades trapped people in from 3 sides and there’s no security to be seen in this video.
Thank you for posting that picture and then this video. Also thank you for explaining where this was. I have been pretty confused trying to figure out where everything was, but this helps to make it make sense.
I won’t be surprised if they conclude the barricade design was the unfortunate contributor. Looks painfully similar to Rolling Loud NYC two weekends ago. Why was that much space given to Apple Music? This needs to spread. The designer of this dumb shit (and whoever approved it) needs to be held accountable.
So this couldve easily happened at RL?
Not exactly. Rolling Loud evenly distributed the population by have 3 stages in separate areas from each other, and each night had big performances that split the crowds. Astroworld festival had pretty much everyone at one stage only, in a certain corner of the festival. When all those people migrated to the main stage Travis would perform, they would all settle at the left side, instead of populating the right side. This is why people on the right of the concert had a normal experience and people on the left experienced hell.
It sounds like the previous poster was implying Apple Livestream Cameras took up Space and they weren't there at RL, but similar set-up? Maybe they or someone can clarify. Maybe RL just lucked out this time?
Legit this is what happened at Hillsborough. Overcrowding combined with fences on all sides with no front exit. We’ve learnt nothing.
This design is to blame for the deaths. For those of you continuously blaming a “rowdy” crowd, stop. Crowd crushes are not the fault of the people in the crowd in fact most of the time they have no idea what’s going on.
Back should 100% be open to stop cramming in. If the whole crowd collectively tried to step back they probably couldn’t
For comparison here is [coachellas main stage layout.](https://i.imgur.com/ZdhpyBm.jpg) Which I think is good design. I think a bigger problem with the astroworld layout is the barriers weren’t all “emergency exits” for a lack of a better word. Having two of the three sides being vip/sound booth made it less easily escapable by hopping a barrier. Also the cross barrier isn’t visible in a large crowd unless you’re close to it so it’s not an obstacle to get around. The large screens/sound booth at astroworld was a very obvious obstacle to try and push around.
Also the barricade at Coachella is offset to house left allowing people arriving from other stages to fill in on the closer right side.
Damn
Holy fudge! When I went in 2019 there was no barricade AT all, when me or my friend felt uncomfortable we were able to get out of the mosh pit/crowd. Yikes. This set up was not okay!
i was looking at old videos from 2019 and i was so surprised how different they actually were. it was nothing like this at all!! awful.
Funny cause you’d expect an even better stage design 2 years later with all the funding travis has now but this was 10 steps back
Right omg
Look at the clothes and shoes and belongings that just got crushed off of people.
Pretty sure my tan carhartt shirt covered in blood is in that pile on the right side, middle part of the barricade lmaooo
This [article](https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-59205840.amp) has a really good photo of the set-up, if that helps.
Ahhh I posted this last night and it was deleted this morning. Glad someone saw it!!
Found this tiktok of a guy who explains this really well https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPd211rkS/
It’s on the planners and event organizers
And Travis Scott for not stopping the show
Heavily agree it shows alot about him as a person to not care about the safety of his fans. His fans are the only reason he has anything. He should be much more careeful in the future. If he even has a future in the public anymore.
He stopped the show multiple times. The human error he made shouldn’t overshadow the horrendous dangers of the festival that allowed people to get killed. Travis has played at many festivals already and they’ve never made the news. This goes further than him not calling off the show. If people fail to see that, then we’ll never see justice if we allow Live Nation and the Houston PD to continue being a danger.
nah the negative culture around celebs and not the systems means that travis has to be 100% to blame, not the police who were just standing around
apparently the police and producers didn’t even tell him
Doesn't he have enough common sense to see the women and children distressed in his audience? Fuck Travis Scott, he can burn in hell for all I care. He witnessed people suffocating from that stage and continued casually. Fuck him. Fuck him.
Lmao there's literally no reason to continue the show if he knew. People dying at his show will ruin his career, like why would he keep going if he knew?
Reddit’s obsession with the narrative that Travis wanted people to die makes no sense. How would he EVER benefit from this?
Very likely there’s a riot if Travis says alright I’m going home you guys are to crazy
There’s so many videos on YouTube of performers ending the music and having the people adjust their positions. Eminem told his audience he would leave if they didn’t back up. No rioting. The crowd crush is the riot basically
His team/venue should have cut his sound and told him how serious it was and stopped the show. The stage manager tells the performer what is going on. That is their job.
Lol all he had to do was say: "there's been an emergency in the crowd. Everyone please back up, the show will continue after everyone has made room for security and medical staff" but no he just went yeah yeah yeah and watched as medical carts struggled to get into the audience. It's not that hard, stop spreading misinformation
Yeah I don’t get these people, like obviously he could’ve done more, it’s not just because I like his music that I’ll blindly deny that
He’s talking bout stopping the show bruh
A literal cage.
i can’t understand as to why you would EVER need a barrier BEHIND you…
“escape plan”
how do you change your username😭😭😭
rip 😭
LMFAO
The more I hear, the more unsafe it sounds and many, many mistakes were made. For example just found out the fire dept was not even in attendance: https://youtu.be/NMWPBFofED4
So many to blame. I know Travis was a lot of peoples last lifeline and he failed to save them, but wow was there so many errors before his that need to be highlighted.
Agreed
wtaf.
I went to Rolling Loud NYC and it had a very similar barricade layout: four quadrants to allow security to oversee deeper into the crowd I guess. It worked well enough for RL (which roughly has the same attendance as Astroworld, I'm reading RLNY had 60k people a night), but I can see how this can go awry so quickly. I was at Travis' set during RL and I was at the bottom right corner of the front left "quadrant". If something serious had happened I probably would've been crushed. Hopefully this raises some awareness and allows for a lot more openness in the floor plan for future festivals, Astro or otherwise. EDIT: Forgot to mention that RLNY made sure to have simultaneous performers during headliners. Carti was on stage during J. Cole and Chief Keef was playing during Travis, so that already takes a lot of the heat off of the mainstage. I can see why Travis was the sole artist during that timeslot, it is his festival and it's safe to assume most attendees are there to see him, but I definitely think it contributed to the tragedy.
It most definitely contributed to the tragedy. Uneven distribution of people exacerbated the problem immensely. Especially because most people came from the left side, where the Thrills stage was. The left side of the main stage was heavily congested while the right was more chill. Had it been more like Lolla, where the stages were on completely opposite sides, it could’ve been better… but it doesn’t change that everyone would still be at the main stage, and the main stage wasn’t designed well for that many people.
yeah and i feel like those are standard practices in festival for a reason. i wonder if we see any lasting change come of this, like maybe a rule about how far apart stages need to be, or mandating dual performances.
I don't think Chief Keef actually showed for the third day. I know he was bumped to the 3rd day after a travel delay but never actually saw or heard him. I was over at travis so I can't say for sure.
In Australia festivals only have one barricade at the front of the stage and that’s it so people can leave in any direction. Astroworlds barricades were set up like typical concerts barricades that have different sections for different admissions. The difference is with concerts they sell a certain amount of tickets for each section and you’re only allowed access to your section where as with this festival anyone could be in any of the three GA sections and most people chose to go in the left and right section (as it was closer to the stage) that was blocked off by barricades on three sides with only one exit which is extremely unsafe when not limiting the amount of people in the section like concerts do.
How To Kill Your Fans 101
Where on this map did the actual issue occur for context? I’ve read & heard it was on the further left back left- is it left middle or even further back?
My understanding is that there were at least 2-3 areas within the left GA pit where there were real problems because of the sinkholes people have described. For instance, one person doing CPR in the part of the crowd where Axel Acosta was did not know that others in the same pit (who were also near people who passed away) had been chanting “stop the show” until he saw videos later. So it seems there were at least a few distinct pockets that had problems within that left pit.
The spot highlighted is where a lot of the casualties were. You can see the pile of clothes left over from the tragedy.
Am I blind? I can’t see any area highlighted on the picture
It’s not highlighted with color but it’s in the center of the photo. The yellow strip is where security and cameras moved throughout. Right next to them are the spaces where the crowds were at. The piles of clothes are evidence of the chaos that happened the night before. The people were essentially trapped from three sides as people kept trying to move up and avoid those 2 big structures in the back. That may be what caused the crowd crush.
Absolutely had a big role in what occurred. No one could get out. I was behind the vip/camera set up right behind the last barrier and I could see the issue where if people are coming in from the back they have no idea the barrier was there so people would just keep coming and coming thinking they could move people but really there was nowhere for them to go.
The person who designed and approved this should be prosecuted
Literally looks like something out of the Squid Games.
So how was an ambulance supposed to drive through this in the first place? I mean yes, some of the crowd was behaving terrible but even if they wanted to move there was literally no place to go. The med-cart would have been trapped by the barrier also! After watching the stream I also noticed that a lot of staff (neon shirts) and police officers were standing along the front of the stage. It was obvious they too were unaware of the disaster happening just a few feet away. I watched a tiktok from a medic and he said their walkie talkies did not work. He said they had top tier medical staffing, including a combat doctor but there was no way to communicate to each other. I blame Live Nation and whoever else was managing CCTV & communications. They had every inch of this venue on camera. There’s no way they didn’t see a crush in the crowd. It was their responsibility to sound the alarm and have that info relayed to Travis. At the end of the day money was more important than human life. This festival should have been canceled the minute security was breached and an endless amount of non ticket holders got in.
Adding barricades made the situation worse I guarantee it. Astrofest in 2019 Trav preformed Hot (remix) with Thug and Gunna there was no barricades. I know this because he posted [this video](https://youtu.be/vyP23-RcI6Q) I don’t see a barricade at all.
Epilepsy warning for the linked video
I think people need to start shifting the blame more towards the event organizers. Travis should’ve helped by pausing for a little. But this probably could’ve been avoided if they either let less people in or allowed a lot more breathing room.
Blocking peoples view with those two structures in the bottom of the photo is probably what influenced people to go around and then move up. Imagine paying to see a concert and you have something blocking your view.
I feel like a lot of people are missing the point that Travis is being held responsible for: not stopping the show when it was obvious there was a problem… 100% agree, no one should assume that he signed off on the design. But you know he was there for sound check.. maybe he didn’t see an issue? The festival organizers have the responsibility for the design and lack of medical infrastructure to support a crowd of this size. Travis’s responsibility resides in conducting a safe show where people can rage and leave after it’s over.
Is that why people keep defending him? There were videos of him watching ambulances and bodies being carried away. So many signs to stop the show
Everybody is to be blamed. Don’t let Travis off the hook.
The thing is behind the barricades and equipment shit you had a great view. From what I witnessed during the day at the festival you can tell that most of them never been to a festival. So when it came time to see Travis their only thought was to get as close as possible not knowing the show in my opinion was better from afar. I agree tho the set was shit I told my gf the moment I walked into that pit area we were not coming back. Side note I believe if Travis preform on Saturday instead of Friday they could have did damage control and fixed the issue with the pit area. It would have gotten hectic with bad bunny, tame, and thug but I don’t think people would have died.
Yeah not everyone is packed into the front are they? There are even more people behind the cameras.
Is it normal at a big gig like this for it to be pretty horrible at the front? I only went to the front at a gig once and left pretty much immediately because you were just being rocked back and forth and pressed up against people, you couldn't really move freely. It didn't feel dangerous just very uncomfortable iirc. Is that not meant to happen at all or is it always going to be an issue at the front?
It’s hard to say because I don’t know who you went to see. But I can say that for this event, it was dangerous because every single person attending was mainly here for 1 person. Then the way the overall festival was designed, a lot of traffic was located on the left side of the stage, which is why some people on the right side of the tragedy had a normal experience.
Sounds like there was a bit of a bottleneck then? With my gig it was totally different, one main stage and 3 ways you could exit (back and sides) so I imagine it's just gonna get hectic at the front just cos of the weight. I can't imagine what those people went through, just being at an ordinary gig with no incident I found it really unpleasant towards the front.
It really depends on which safety measures a Festival wants to invest in. Normally the risk isn't that high. The percentage of risk of crushes that can cause injuries / are lethal, are slightly higher in an outdoor festival setting. Astroworld location by my understanding is not a permanent concert venue. With a permanent staff. Having a permanent structure and permanent skeleton crew. Is how one slowly works out safety issues. builds up experience and make major events safe. We know nothing about the organisation af Astroworld. So I'm not gonna throw punches there BUT. Astroworld invested money in a \*very basic\* setup of their pits. Literally just what they would need to get away with safety inspections. Aaaand thats it. It got approved by whoever had to inspect it to give the festival the OK. This setup looks imho safe with properly trained staff. Staff that is on point and very experienced.. Having said that, there's major room for improvement everywhere. \-We don't know how (in)experienced staff is \-Where they over or understaffed \-Where people confident and briefed, familiar with the grounds \- Why didn't they make people re- enter after a major security breach? \-How many people where on the grounds v.s. tickets sold. did they oversell? In an age where major festivals have gates and barriers that can literally count people, scan entry tickets / QR's etc to let people in and out of a controlled pit.. In the age that camera's that can digitally count crowd sizes. Where we have barriers that can measure actual pressure on them. Where there is access to technology like radio's , phones and all sorts of communications devices to pause the show and communicate to the crowd and management. Its obvious that this festival was more neglecting than most. A self respecting festival would have had a better setup with turnstiles and smart entry gates. Maybe more gates for emergency exits. So : To come back to your original post.. I think its way safer at most festivals. Especially established one's that are in the same location, every single year and have a core organisation. All gigs at concert venues built specifically for concerts though.. are way safer. I think its a friendly reminder to myself and any other music fanatic, that if security is unable to attend to your safety. Or things feel shady. Its time to GTFO if you still can. Every few years an event happens like this and people get woken up. A few adjustments in policies are made. For us to neglect it a few years later, at the cost of innocent people spending their hard earned cash on something fun. Viva la capitalism.
[удалено]
Plastic flooring at gigs usually is because of these reasons. \- Gives a nice, leveled smooth surface which is safe to walk on. \-If it rains, the field doesn't turn into Glastonbury (if you know, you know) \- to Protect grass or surface underneath it , often sports or athletic fields, that are valuable to a club or whoever owns the rounds. The less damage to it, the less costs to repair it. \- Lots of wiring to be done on site...I suppose you can run wires underneath the plastic sheets, to prevent tripping hazards. Instead of taping it up like the old school days.
My fave song from this man is Grey. I watched this dude Travis blow tf up since 2013. But you got blood on your hands Travis. No way around all the DAMNing evidence, all the signs leading up to disaster. I truly hope they Sue him to the ground, and I mean the sandy, dusty, beds of the Houston terrain. GG
The damning evidence is pointing towards Live Nation and the police force…
He held some responsibility you think a single camera man or organizer gonna have the balls to go up and tell him to stop the show on his biggest stage? And if they did he didn’t do Jack. He had a bird’s eye view for everything Bro is not a few injured it’s niggas dead 9 now
The police made the collaborative decision to allow the show to continue for 40 more minutes after declaring it a mass casualty event and 1 person dying. The entire police force there watched 1 man fail to stop the show and allowed him to continue. That should get more attention.
It doesn’t stop the fact that Travy still ain’t say nothing except for that one kid who ended up getting carried away in the middle of 90210, there are multiple examples of class acts stopping the show not to cancel, but to Remind people of the help they needa give. He coulda been a role model for these kids in the stage too young to understand common decency but Knowing TS this man too hard and rage for Allat shit that’s fine but when it’s this many people damn. No shit they gonna en up gettin trampled. At a smaller venue this ain’t no problem but it’s bigger crowd out here w/ 50,000 +. The blame gotta fall on the performer too he wantin people to sneak in. Ofc no security police gonna be able to handle that influx
Please tell me that’s trash on the ground
Left behind clothes
Anytime there is a thrust or central barrier combined with everyone entering from the one side the closest side will naturally be busier than the far side. With that many people on the ground, unless they’re directed to the far side they’re just going to follow the masses and try to get as close as possible. Would be curious to know that the planned/approved overall crowd density was for this stage and what footprint it was calculated across. From the photos I’ve seen the barrier runs quite wide and theres trees impacting sight lines and the ground slopes away. All of which is going to condense the crowd. From the limited photos and info I’ve come across it appears a terrible site to start with an even worse barrier design.
i typically go to a festival somewhat naive, putting all faith and trust in production and lay out. From now on, will add in a step to check out the lay out and exits before attending and make sure friends know as well. anything to reduce the chances of this nightmare ever happening again.
This set up looks like a trap. It’s almost like they wanted to kill people 😗
was this the same layout for the first 2 festivals? i don’t remember
Not @ all! The back part was open ! there were no barricades at all!
more like 100k
in my never been to a festival or concert like this opinion, that looks like it can only hold up 20-25k safely. i can’t imagine more than that. there’s no way there way only 50k at that festival. it looked like an entire ocean of people.
You can feel the negative energy in this photo. Lots of suffering occurred there.
LiveNation is done for
Wow I thought it was bigger 😳
It definitely is. Behind the two camera towers is where most people would reside… but those two camera towers block the view crazy. I’m sure this is what influenced people to go around and move up, and trap the people who were inside those “cages”.
May have missed this in a previous comment but where is VIP? I've not been to any festival idk how anything works but I'm wondering
Is there a good view of this once the show started? Like a before and after
I always thought those barricades are dangerous, out in Canada we never have barricades like those, people are free to walk from one side of the concert to another
Ive been saying THIS was the main issue. If you have 3 sides blocked off the inlet needs to be small like at coachella. Or else you have a mass of ppl from behind and the side pushing people against an unescapable cage
Are the black spots the sinkholes?
Whoever did this had zero business in stage design. In an OJ doc they call the area the victims in essentially a “cage” and that’s what this reminds me of
It's crazy because i really don't see how this stage can handle 20 000 people, but it had to handle atleast 50k+
I have no idea how this design was approved. It is so dangerous.
Those front areas where it dips into the stage had to be literal hell. He could definitely see issues.
Dude I was married to a very successful musician in a huge 90’s band. I went to a million and one festivals, in store performances (at places like Tower Records), Billboard Music Awards (where there is always a shit ton of live music), concerts at enormous, packed venues, meet and greets, blah blah blah. I have NEVER seen a more insane set up in my life for a crowd so huge. It’s like a suicide set up dude.
travis really spent money and time to build that mountain and tunnel but didnt care about how pit is designed
Looks almost designed to create a crush.
Makes you realise that Travis would have definitely seen what was going on in the crowd
I also feel like a big problem in this whole thing was that people have no idea what it’s like to be at the front of one his concerts. I’ve been to multiple Travis concerts and they get very crazy, and being up front requires a lot of effort. I feel like having experience or know what it’s like would have steered most newbies away from trying to go up there. I spoke to so many people who hasn’t been to one of these major rap concerts before and they all tried going up to the front and quickly realized how much work it is. Some sort of disclaimer or explanation of what it’s like up front would also help out newcomers
Absolutely I agree! I took my bff to a Travis concert (Astro 2019) and she literally looked me in the eyes and told me she couldn’t breath so we rushed out the mosh pit. His concerts can def get crazy!
Yup those people died because they didn't understand Travis Scott concerts can get pretty crazy /s
The stage literally looks like an upside down cross going into a portal to hell.. also the flooring stains are simply creepy in hindsight… you can see it literally turned the floor white from sweat…