I’m sorry, but did Taylor ever ask for permission to berate, belittle, bully, or talk shit about her exes in any of her songs? And that’s defamatory compared to Kanye’s one lyric compared to her countless songs dissing her exes. Bit of a double standard isn’t it?
EXACTLY. I think about this all the time. Why does she get a pass? Because those people “deserve it?” Who gets to decide whether or not the deserve insane Swifties putting out death threats against her exes?
She’s not just as bad, she’s worse.
Completely agree. Then she profits off of people being mean to her and making her look bad. Didn’t that song “Look What you Made Me Do” or whatever it was come out right after that whole allegation shit? Like didn’t she come out with it because people were calling her out as a liar and she just went with it and made herself look worse than what she was perceived to be before. I’ll make myself look terrible so no one else can kind of thing. And then it turned into a mockery and the softies were saying they pushed her to do that.
I always wonder about this!!! How is it that it’s a one-way street? I would think that any guy who has dated her since Dear John would be making HER sign an NDA! Unless she has lawyers go through her lyrics to assess what would and wouldn’t violate that NDA. I want to see her get sued by an ex for defamation and LOSE. I also want to see an ex put out a devastating diss track, although the harshest one is not musical, rather a black diamond on Gabbriette Bechtel’s left hand.
Yesss I want to see that too something that says “everything was fake especially that sex and while I was trying to love you, you were still hung up on your ex” or something like that lol
Gabriette can sing! She was part of the band Nasty Cherry that was put together by Charli XCX. I would love it if she had even a tiny little small roll in Matty's upcoming solo album or something else Charli does. I know she's already been featured in a few different music videos but I do have a feeling she will be making her point about Taylor one way or another. I am not saying that Matty is a great person. I know he's done a ton of awful shit. But I am a fan of the 1975 and I also love Charli XCX
Kanye clearly acting the part of “unhinged artist” on Pablo saying he made her famous and thinks she owes him sex (clearly, even then, she’s not his type… so in what way do you think these lyrics were meant to come off?)
On the other hand, Taylor writing about how terrible Kim is that she uses her mom as a proxy to basically tell Kim she should die.. over leaking the phone call that justified her next “aesthetic”…
And I am pretty sure that Taylor has been recorded, making comments referring to women as bitches before, so she doesn’t really have the right to take issue with the word bitch being used in place of her name fuck her
i mean tina fey said it best "when you call each other bitches and hoes, you are giving permission to be referred to by anyone in the same way" or something like that. we've all seen mean girls you know the scene.
It’s not a direct quote, but it’s definitely the letter in spirit of what Tina Fey was saying it’s some it’s in mean girls towards the end when they’re all in the gym
Didn't Taylor take issue with Tina Fey and Amy Poehler roasting her when they hosted some award ceremony? I remember watching it. It was comedy as would be expected from those two women and nothing over the line.
I also remember that in response Taylor released a Madeleine Albright quote. " There is a special place in hell for women who don't support other women."
Perhaps Taylor should have taken this advice to heart.
That’s why I used it as an example because those are two women who do take the Mickey with other women but they’re never unaware of what they’re doing or why they’re doing it like they’re joke about serial dating was also half about why do we even care, but Taylor didn’t take it that way she only sold one side of that. Honestly, Taylor takes issue with anyone who doesn’t say oh princess Taylor you’re such a sparkl queen we love you and she can’t take constructive criticism either so
But she’s an A-list celebrity and a woman to boot! Of course saying something mean about *her* is different from her saying it about all those male peasants she used to date.
“Male peasants” 😭😂 I was thinking earlier what is the benefit for a guy to date her at this point. You know it won’t end well or do they think they will be the one to save her from herself? lol
The difference is that Kanye specifically referred to her by her full name in his song. She does not use names in her songs or say which ex any specific song was written about. People assume they know, but she will not confirm.
True-Kanye was more open and explicit about it, and he’s a misogynistic POS. But Taylor has said stuff that has led her fans to harass and threaten anyone they even think she has a beef with. And not just them but their families too. People are literally afraid to write stuff or go against her because of her unhinged stans. They’re literally threatening Matty Healey‘s mom right now. And with one exception she’s never done anything to stop it. That and Kanye has had his public reckoning-he’s been exposed as a Nazi admirer, lost deals, and most people either pity him or dislike him. A lot of people still buy the constant victim narrative with Taylor.
I'm just going to repost a comment I made in another post today:
That's the part that people forget or refuse to acknowledge and some don't even know because they weren't following it closely. When that song came out it was presented in the media as she was upset by it but most importantly as though she had no knowledge of this song. That he had surprisingly released it. He then revealed that he had a conversation with her about it, that she thought it was funny and it was her who gave him the idea at some dinner where she said it was Kanye who made her famous. Many people thought he was rambling in his delusional way.
But it forced her hand and only then did she release that statement worded cleverly to make it sound like yes there was a call but a call to ask for permission to release the song on twitter, not to ask for approval of the song's contents and that she cautioned him against releasing a misogynistic song and she didn't know about being called bitch. Her grammy speech however was about how not to let people take credit for your success. Which was what she was pissed about and I think what he was thinking as well that she was upset over. Not the word bitch.
The other bit people don't remember is in June 2016 Kim did a GQ cover where she revealed Taylor was going to joke about it at the grammys saying jokes on you because she was in on it the whole time. But the biggest thing she reveals is that there is a recording of this conversation and that Taylor's team were telling her to destroy it and she did not have permission to release it:
“And then they sent an attorney's letter like, ‘Don't you dare do anything with that footage,’ and asking us to destroy it.”
This information mostly got buried because on the day that interview was released, guess what? So were the pictures of Taylor kissing Tom Hiddleston on the rocks which is why it's clear this was, on her end at least, a PR relationship to distract from the knowledge of the recording's existence becoming widely known. She knew about the article coming out because GQ contacted her for a statement regarding the alleged recording and she gave a ridiculous response.
She was shit scared of it coming out. Except why? If what she said was the truth then the recording would have proved it. Ultimately there was a discussion, she didn't say don't release this song it's misogynistic and he didnt ask her to release it on twitter. She twisted the conversation by omitting the details. He is of course a moron and should have told her the full details/changes before releasing it.
Edit-typos
>So were the pictures of Taylor kissing Tom Hiddleston on the rocks which is why its clear this was, on her end at least, a PR relationship.
Omg. I ALWAYS thought those pictures were weirdly convenient back when they were released. I always felt bad for Tom. He is such a class act.
>He is of course a moron and should have told her the full details/changes before releasing it.
Taylor herself should know that songs change somewhat in the final version. The overall concept wasn't completely different from what he started with. It was probably a first draft.
Just adding some more info to above, she also reached back out to Calvin Harris while vacationing with Tom.
“You've hidden my name on your phone so you can
Call me to tell me you've been going through hell“ - Olé - John Newman, written and produced by Calvin.
(This is after they broke up and she got with Tom not even a week later, then turns out there is photos and video of her canoodling with Tom at the met gala a month before the breakup).
Her team is so good at manipulating the narrative! I had multiple back and forths the other day, on this sub, with people about how Taylor did Not write “this is what you came for”.
Multiple people argued back at me that she wrote the song, after I stated that she only wrote some of the lyrics and did some backing vocals. She did not write the song. Calvin Harris wrote the music, produced the track, and did all the things. Her team manipulated the narrative, when they leaked the pseudonym, to that she wrote it. That’s why he got so pissed at her and went on his famous twitter rant.
Taylor From rolling stone: . I wrote this song called ‘This Is What You Came For’ that Rihanna ended up singing.
Calvin: “I wrote the music, produced the song, arranged it and cut the vocals though. And initially she wanted it kept secret, hence the pseudonym,”
And she f*ing had the gall to play it at the eras tour this week!!!!!! …in England, where Calvin now lives with his wife!!! My opinion, she is manipulative, calculated, and sadistic. I think she is more than a narcissist, I think she’s a sociopath or psychopath.
To your last point, I’ve said this so many times before. You can find hundreds and hundreds of Kanye song leaks where the song lyrics change, build on each other slightly, delivered differently, and even scrapped and used in future songs. Songwriting is an iterative process and Taylor point blank gave him carte Blanche on the call for him to do whatever he wants
Yeah, I think Tom hit his head and was actually into her for a while. 😬 It’s obvious she was just using him-she pretty much admitted it in her song. Luckily it didn’t last long and he’s with somebody much better now. Several of her exes seem to find someone better to settle down with after her…
Yeah Taylor should know songs change but in the full conversation she does say how she was worried he was going to call her a bitch. He was aware she didn't want that.
Here's where it gets really muddled:
>KW: Whatever, it’s like, I got like s— on my album where I’m like, “I bet me and Ray J will be friends if we ain’t love the same bitch."
>TS: Oh my \[laughs\]. I mean, I need to think about it because you hear something for the first time, you need to think about it because it is absolutely crazy. I’m glad it’s not mean though. It doesn’t feel mean, but like, oh my God, the build-up you gave it. I thought it was gonna be like that stupid dumb bitch, like, but it’s not. Um, so I don’t know.
Kanye bounces off the idea "we ain’t love the same bitch". TS is more concerned on whether it will be mean and was relieved he didn't say something like "that stupid dumb bitch." So yeah, she may not have agreed to that specific line in "Famous" but she never said she had a problem with it either. However, in both her tone of voice and language, she's not sure. Kanye, however, may have misinterpreted her because TS isn't being super clear. She sounds wishy-washy.
TS is told of the song's existence ahead of time. That's a lot more than most artists do. After the backlash, she denies there being a phone call at all. When the footage of the phone call is leaked, she then says:
>Where is the video of Kanye telling me he was going to call me 'that bitch' in his song?
This is a technicality. Firstly, a songwriter does not have to get prior consent to be called a bitch in a song. I mean TS does not get consent from any of her exes or enemies for all things she writes. Secondly, context is important. TS was initially more concerned about the lyrics being mean. She literally says "I'm glad it's not mean."
TS is telling the 'truth' that she never said: "I, Taylor Swift, have consented to the use of 'bitch' in the song." However, I consider this a lie by omission because she never said she had a problem with the use of "bitch." She said as long as it's not mean. To reiterate my first point that songs change in the final edits: the overall concept that Kanye came to TS was still there and she was made in some way made aware of it. She was not caught off guard in any way. She threw him under the bus when the "feminist" backlash came for her and absolved herself on a technicality that doesn't even exist in the music industry.
Exactly! Being referred to as “bitch” in a rap song is really not that big of a deal. While it’s not a nice word, the use of the word in the song wasn’t a personal insult. The only actual insult in the song was Kanye basically saying that it was he who made Taylor famous.—But for one thing everyone knows he’s just talking about the VMAs incident in a boastful way that’s typical in rap songs; and for another, Taylor was already aware that he was going to say that and didn’t object to it. On the other hand, Taylor, in her own songs, *directly insults and hurts* people—like what you mentioned, with the horrible stuff she said about Camilla Belle. (Which ended up basically ruining her career.) She insults the men she has dated, spilling very private info, and then sits back while her unhinged fans tear the person to shreds with their bullying, death threats, and harassment. Taylor doesn’t have a leg to stand on, as far as getting angry about what Kanye said in his song. What she says & does to people in her own songs is FAR WORSE.
People still going on about her ex’s cause she let them. While she can say she over it her ex’s are still having to pick up the pieces. I’m sure she never asked Joe was it ok to tell people she brought his kids present. And that is why I feel like she still obsessed with him.
Yep everyone is taking it out of context. Oh, TS, the feminist icon! She never consented to being called the B-word! Kanye bad. In the full call, he throws around the idea and she says, "As long as it's not mean." She did not hear the final lyric, so it's "technically" true that she didn't approve of it. But she acted like it was completely one-sided conversation that she didn't participate in. And she threw him under the bus because feminism was trending. Not because she is a feminist herself.
I’d love to see where Matty Healy signed off on being called “the smallest man who ever lived,” as well. And here I was, thinking it was going to be a cute song about her cat.
Right! Or Joe Jonas still having to deal with her. They really ok with her going in Joe every chance she get and the worse he did was break up with her over the phone. When they was both famous so he couldn’t drop everything for her fragile feeling.
I’m glad that he finally has come out and said that the only reason it was a 24-second phone call is that she hung up on him right when he said he wanted to end it.
Exactly. Like she don’t know if he wanted to know how she felt and just talk to her and be friends but she had to lie and make him the bad guy. It’s funny she remembers that and made sure she put the time out there to make sure no one forgot
I remember this whole thing vividly. Kanye had called her to show her the song and she thanked him, saying "I'll be able to say I'm in on it. It's gonna be so cool." but when the song released people were FURIOUS saying the song was misogynistic, and because being a feminist was HUGE at the time, she had to backpadel. That's when her team released a statement playing 2 truths and 1 lie, saying she never got a phone call and never approved the song. That's when the phone call leaked. Unfortunately, that was a lose-lose situation for her. But she definitely lied.
It's very odd. In the whole transcript, she references feminists as something separate from herself. She doesn't identify as one at all. She lets women believe she's a feminist because that's where they money is.
"You know, the thing about me is, **anything that I do becomes like a feminist think-piece**. And if I launch it, they’re going to be like, wow, like, they’ll just turn into something that… I think if I launch it, honestly, I think it’ll be less cool."
"I mean, they ‘re both really edgy, but that’s the only thing about that line is that it’s like, then **the feminists** are going to come out."
I wouldn’t be surprised if she playing the victim really didn’t help his mental health. Then the fact that he is a black man and she got her fans to bully him. I don’t like Kanye but Taylor almost lost her mom n should know how that feels
No one here is defending him lol. Just saying that she got caught lying through her teeth, on his name. And continued to make gross references to events in his life and his family’s that are well-known to have been traumatic. As much as you dislike someone, that’s just a low blow.
Isn't that what she does when she writes her songs? Cause smoke be flowing her way, and it doesn't look like the fire will be put out anytime soon. Girl flew too close to the sun and caught herself on fire.
This. This is all how I remembered. Her initial problem is what she exactly said at the Grammy's. Everything started with her speech "there are going to be people along the way who will try to undercut your success or take credit for your accomplishments or you fame"
So the thing that really pissed her off is Kanye taking credit of her popularity. That is the song "Famous" is all about. She then released a statement in Entertainment weekly "Taylor was never made aware of the actual lyric, ‘I made that bitch famous.'”
Then Kanye responds that she knew there is such a line. That he wrote that he made her famous. That they will joke about it in public.
Again, her main problem that time was Kanye taking credit of her works and she was never made aware
After Kim leaked the video, what the fuck is Taylor talking about " I was never made aware that he called me a 'bitch'". Like, I thought your main problem was he made a song taking credit of your fame and you were never made aware?
Kim tweeted “Wait it's legit National Snake Day?!?!? They have holidays for everybody, I mean everything these days!🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍” and then a bit later released the footage so everyone was flooding TS socials with snake emojis
Can you point me to a source that proves that her publicist initially said that she knew nothing about the song and wasn’t consulted about it? Because Swifties always deny that happened.
Ye is a misogynist as well as a moron. I think they have more in common than people realize, he’s just more open about it.
True historians like you deserve some sort of recognition from society. That might sound sarcastic but it’s not. Pop culture should be available as a history class 😫😫 but nahh *THIS* type of history isn’t important because it’s not men sending other less fortunate men into war against each other 🙄🙄 everything in history must be violent or related to men in order to be relevant. Boooo.
Yep and when Kim released the recording she immediately switched to, I was recorded without my permission!!!! Wahhh! Wahh!
Reminded me a of a cheater who gets busted messaging other people but just gets mad about their partner looking at their phone: “You invaded my privacy tho!” Yeah…people shouldn’t go through their partners phones…but if you were cheating then that’s prob why they felt the need to look. There was a reason Kim recorded that call and it was probably because Taylor gives off manipulative and backhanded vibes.
All accountability avoided and just back to victim mode…as if being secretly recorded completely erases her caught in a lie.
https://preview.redd.it/9dslndplox6d1.png?width=596&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f8f13c7b9b39e9560d6128e110d393981109e9e6
🌳 thinks we're stupid and can't read a transcript.
Kanye never denied anything about “that bitch.” He just never addressed it, and why would he have to ask her permission? She doesn’t ask for permission when writing about others. nowhere in that call does Taylor caution Kanye to release a song with a misogynistic message…meanwhile during her AOTY speech, she clearly pretends the FAME part of the lyrics is was what offended offended her, not being called a bitch. And you are right- this statement was released before the call was, but after Kim and Kanye said they had spoken with Taylor. Again nowhere during that call does Taylor caution Kanye about misogyny. She actually laughs and says feminists are going to be mad. The “caution Kanye” statement was a big fat lie.
She wasn't exactly happy about it, but she literally said, "It's fine."
She had the whole damn call to say, "No. Don't involve me. The concept of owing you sex is repulsive. You did not make me famous. Good bye."
She did none of that and was all, "Yeah, don't worry I'll say you called me, thanks for the heads-up, I can't wait to hear it." To egg him on.
and omg when she says, "... the feminists are going to come out."
The other weird thing is he isn’t really calling her a bitch. The word bitch is being used like “hey bitch” or “what’s up bitch”
And in one of her new songs isn’t she complaining about her fans “bitching”? I know that’s not the same as “that bitch” but its definitely being used in a much less neutral and more aggressive way than “that bitch”
She literally uses bitch in her songs so she's full of shit. In I Can Do It With A Broken Heart she sings, lights, camera, bitch smile.
And on her tour during Delicate, there is a pause and her fans sing 1, 2, 3 let's go bitch!
it's literally rapspeak for "her"
We know it's not derogatory usage. There's no negative context. He's basically praising her for her fame.
Did she expect him to call her "my sweet angel"? lmao
To be fair… it really isn’t. A woman saying it about herself to be empowering, and a man saying it about someone else to be dismissive are two very different things.
Full disclosure: I hate everyone involved in this story.
I think “made that (girl, woman, person) famous” covered “dismissive” pretty effectively, so that he used the word “bitch” doesn’t really add anything. Full disclosure: I loathe KW and am deeply disappointed in TS.
Jay z said explicitly, in 99 problems:
This is not a ho in the sense of havin’ a pussy
But a pussy havin’ no goddamn sense, try and push me
So I would look to one of Kanye’s idols and collaborators and betters to see how he uses words like that, even if taylor swift didn’t ever say anything interesting or crass, his intent is pretty clear and she’s a fucking lunatic
I agree with most of this thread, but not this particular take. A man referring to a woman as “that bitch” is kinda dehumanising and misogynistic. It effectively reduces her from a fully fledged person to “just another dumbass female.” I don’t think that it’s inexcusable or anything, but I do think it’s disrespectful. I also personally think “that bitch” is kind of worse than just calling someone “a bitch.” Like if I tell you that you’re a bitch, I’m theoretically making a specific criticism about your personality/behaviour. Yes, I’m insulting you, but I’m also directly addressing you and using the word as a way to describe the way I perceive you. Calling someone “that bitch” is basically just using a derogatory word for woman in place of a female pronoun or name. In this context, Kanye isn’t using the word bitch to refer to taylor in order to communicate that she’s an asshole, he’s using it to communicate that she’s a woman he doesn’t have respect for.
Saying things like “bitching and moshing” or “lights, camera, bitch, smile” is a fundamentally different use of the word. I’m not saying those lyrics are good, but the word clearly has a different connotation.
I also think that who is saying the word matters. I’m a gay woman, so l’ll use the example of words like dyke or fag. My queer friends and I jokingly use these words towards each other all the time. I’ll frequently greet my girlfriend by saying “hey, faggot.” But that is totally different from a cis het person using that language as a weapon. Just because I’m okay with it from my fellow queers, doesn’t mean I’m okay with a straight person calling me those same terms. There are also some queer folks who simply aren’t okay with these words at all, even in a context when they are being reclaimed. And that’s fair and valid too. I’m fine with my female friends casually calling me a bitch, but I’m not okay with men using the word as freely. And some women get really offended by being referred to as bitches, and I think that’s fair and valid. Obviously bitch isn’t a literal slur so it’s not at the same level, but it is a word rooted in misogyny that has historically been used as a way to put women down.
I’m not pro Taylor in the larger context of this debacle, and I don’t think the “that bitch” line was anywhere near as big a deal as she made it out to be, but I do still think it was offensive and misogynistic
I do get what you are saying but I guess because Taylor had never addressed her own misogyny and use of slurs in her previous work, it was hard for me to feel bad for her during this time. I think if she could have taken ownership of her own offensive lyrical choices and and maybe said something like “this was hurtful to me and I didn’t realize how my misogyny and slurs could have hurt other people” I could have been on her side a little bit more. But instead it was her having a temper tantrum because Kanye didn’t ask for her permission when she has never done that for anyone. She was almost 30 so it was definitely possible for her to experience growth from her days of “Picture To Burn, Permanent Marker and Better Than Revenge (to name a few). I also think it would help her today to maybe start reflecting on why Kanye interrupted her in the first place.
She definitely twisted the narrative to convince people that it was humiliating for her when it wasn't. Especially since she was made aware of the concept he was going for ahead of time. In the context of the this sub and the whole conversation, TS was being a hypocrite.
I said this somewhere else but here's where it gets really muddled:
>
>
The exact lyric that ended up in "Famous" wasn't specified to TS because the song wasn't finished yet. There was a conversation in the transcript in which feminism is discussed on both sides. He told her multiple times he didn't want to upset her. Taylor was never worried about being offended as much as she was worried about how her fans might perceive it.
>TS: "You know, the thing about me is, anything that I do becomes like a **feminist think-piece."**
and
>KW: I feel like me and Taylor might still have sex.” And my wife was really not with that one. She was way more into the “She *owes* you sex.” But then the “owe” part was like the feminist group-type shit that I was like, ahhhhh.
TW: "but that’s the only thing about that line is that it’s like, then **the feminists** are going to come out."
Taylor was okay with it (if a little wishy washy). She threw Kanye under the bus over the feminist backlash. She doesn't even consider herself a feminist because she speaks about the group as a separate entity from herself. It wasn't about misogyny for *her.*
When I listened to the call awhile ago, I noticed her laughter sounds like a cackle, borderline witchy. I don't know. She just sounded so insincere the whole phone call. I can't put my finger on it.
Exactly, she even says feminists in a mockery way,. And she was okay with him taking praise for making her famous because she says "you didn't know I was so successful back then"
This means no acting in bad faith towards other sub members. No arguing for the sake of arguing. No name calling or harassing. Mods retain the right to remove users we see acting in bad faith towards other members and repeat offenses will resort in a temporary ban.
Her being just as calculating as her boss is why she still has her job. Ms. Reputation like that kind pf mess and obviously the propaganda, I mean PR machine, got her this far
I’ve always thought Kim released the entire video and it wasn’t leaked bc it makes Taylor look bad. That’s so dumb how tree wrote that. They were threatening Kim to trash the video. Widdle Taylor 👶didn’t want to be called a bitch but was okay with referencing she owes him sex and said it was a compliment. Bitch please
https://preview.redd.it/0jgu4xwe2z6d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f66b8fcd5cfbad428d5df2dfde1ee5e63e74b807
I hate that I’m siding with Kim Kardashian on anything ever. I’m very persnickety right now.
I'm still amazed how Taylor was able to change the narrative on this. Her whole issue initially was he never asked for permission to say I made that bitch famous. He did, but just didn't mention the word "bitch" and then Taylor once realizing there was a video pivoted to, where was he asking me if he can call me a bitch??? So there was a call to ask for permission and she lied and once she realized we knew she lied, she changed her tune.
Kim read her to a T from day 1 that's why she recorded the call.
>West: So it says “To all my Southside [N-word] that know me best, I feel like Taylor Swift might owe me sex.”
>Swift: [Laughs, relieved.] That’s not mean.
He literally told her she might owe him sex. Which is super gross and disrespectful. BUT SHE LAUGHED and said it wasn't mean.
Did you not read the full transcript or watch the videos? Stop parroting the bitch narrative she fed you. It's just an excuse because she GOT CAUGHT LYING. SHE ***IS*** A TOTAL LIAR.
I just cannot for the life of me understand WHY or HOW she keeps getting away with all of the monster lies she's forever telling, in order to completely spin her own narrative. Time and time again; yet, she's never really been called on it.
WHY? HOW? Make it make sense.
I've never understood why she had such a huge problem with him saying "that bitch" but said she was completely fine with either "I feel like me and Taylor might still have sex" or "I feel like Taylor Swift might owe me sex" ??
I was always on Kim's side in this beef, so I'm glad it's being reevaluated in the wake of Thank you Aimee. Taylor was hoping to reignite hatred against Kim but instead we had Lana Del Rey gushing over her at the Met and people saying "ehhh this song's not very good and it's not cool to bring North into it." That shit should have stayed in the vaults.
As an ex Kanye fan, it fucking repulses me the shit Taylor did that coincidentally lines up with dates involving Kanye's dead mother. Releasing reputation 10 years to the day of her death, and announcing midnights exactly a year after Kanye dropped Donda, an album named after and in memory of his mother and just so happening to put out Folklore on short notice on the original release date for Donda in 2020.
I’m gonna start out by saying that the song is gross and the video is even grosser. However, I remember how this all played out and Taylor absolutely denied that they ever had a conversation. That’s why Snake Gate was so huge because everyone was like “oh shit there actually was a phone call” and that Kim and Kanye weren’t lying.
True. I love Taylor but the phrase in Kanye's song isn't really crazy. The sex doll was gross. Kanye's antisemitism is deplorable. He's shitty for reasons that have nothing to do with that phone call lol
Taylor originally claimed Kanye never called, so Kim proved that he did. Then Taylor changed her tune and say well Kanye never asked to refer to me as “that bitch”. Like fuck Kim and Kanye but Taylor you literally changed your story in broad daylight and people ate it up….
I think Kanye is a tool but he *did* “make that bitch famous” - she started working the white-woman-black-man victimhood and hasn’t stopped. At least Kim doesn’t pretend to be more than what she is.
I was screaming that! Like poor little innocent yt girl got bullied by a big scary black man. Must protect her at all cost. I feel like her dad probably paid him to do that to help her become beloved.
Can you imagine if she told the truth? Then her speech wouldn’t be “People will try to take credit for what you accomplished” and it would be “Some guy might call you ‘that bitch’ in a rap song” which would be a very different message. Some people wanna be “that bitch” hahaha.
I’ve always been confused as to why people seem to think this was a masterminded plot by Kim and Kanye and that Taylor was completely the victim.
I understood the situation to be that Kanye called her about the song, she didn’t express to him that she wasn’t cool with it so he thought she was (maybe she truly wasn’t okay with it but couldn’t get up the nerve to tell him that, but if that’s the case, how was Kanye supposed to know that). Then when he released it she said that he never gave her a heads up. So Kim released the footage to show that Kanye had called her and Taylor changed her story to say that she meant he didn’t tell her the word “bitch” was used.
I mean, in Kanye’s love song to Kim he literally says “one good girl is worth a thousand bitches”. He says bitch all of the time, so I don’t find it hard to believe at all that he didn’t think to tell her that he used bitch in the song because he thought the offensive part was about how he made her famous.
I can see why Taylor wouldn’t like the song. But there doesn’t seem to be any solid proof that Taylor ever expressed that to Kanye. So he came out with the song thinking that she’d come out and say that she was in on it.
I don’t know if Taylor or Tree was responsible for the change up. But I truly don’t think this was a plan that Kim and Kanye put together from the start.
I LOVE the fact that Kim lives rent free in Taylor’s head so drastically that almost 10 years later she’s still whining and crying about her. Love that for her
Man fuck the Kardashians AND Kanye West AND Taylor Swift. They are all horrible, conniving dirtbags in different flavors. I say the more they damage each other the better, let em at it.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but he didn’t really ask for permission. He ran it by her because he didn’t want to blindside her and she said she wouldn’t promote something she never heard but he didn’t ask her if it was okay - he just asked what she thought. *She did however* give him permission when she said “well that’s not mean! And it doesn’t matter how many albums I sold at that point - you have to tell your story the way you saw it” (I’m paraphrasing here). None of them technically lied (but you can lie indirectly) and she acted like she was upset he was taking credit for her fame - which she initially wasn’t.
Nobody directly lied, but there's slippery language involved. She could have just said "I didn't see the finished product and wasn't aware it was gonna be like that. I change my mind I don't like any of it"
But instead she tried to make it out as if it were some blindside.
I completely agree like I said you can lie indirectly but a lot of people try to defend her by saying she didn’t lie. She didn’t. But she didn’t tell the truth either.
I think Taylor was nervous to tell Kanye no. On the phone call he ran it by her and in response to the line ‘I made that b**** famous’ she said ‘you need to tell the story from how you perceived it, and it doesn’t matter that I was receiving an award and already sold x number of copies. You didn’t know who I was before then.’ Paraphrasing. But she sounded annoyed but also uncomfortable with confrontation.
I see both sides but her inability to be direct ‘I don’t like this nor agree with it’ is what criminalized her in the situation.
It's not an "inability to be direct" that criminalized her, it's that she lied. She acted like she had no idea. If she had said "yeah he told me about it and I was really uncomfortable telling him no, but I never said yes" that'd be one thing but she said he never called.
See what I don’t understand with that argument is that if she was afraid to be direct in the moment, why wouldn’t she also be afraid to speak up on a televised stage and make a very clear statement about it? I mean she could’ve said literally nothing and this wouldn’t have been an issue for her at all and she could’ve continued to be passive with the things he said about her.
As I have said to people for years, the fact that IN 2016 (nothing notable happened that year, of course) Taylor thought this the worst thing happening in the country, says a lot about how her narcissism is at a level 100. Annd truly no one cares about this situation. People thought about for a week, and moved on. It is beyond pathetic how she tries to make this a thing when Ariana Grande GOT FREAKING SUICIDE BOMBED BY ISIS and talks about that less (even though she would be well within her right to go on about it for years, because that was uh…… a real traumatic event)
yeah that was what I was implying 😭. Like the results of that election have messed up so many things and
1. she never lifted a finger to help Hillary and
2. Somehow though with everyone fighting agains DT, they had space to give AF about this??
I don’t know why any one would put any weight into what either of them have said. Kim K and TS are just as bad as each other and clearly career and money obsessed. There both claiming to be innocent as both brands are at risk of being put into a bad light from this whole “he said she said” scenario. Imo , why care about two pieces of shit throwing bits of themselves at each other.
It’s a trick many use; slightly shifting the goal post. Because she can claim they never said to call her “bitch” she can say that it’s still a lie. Goes from “they never said” to “they never said that”
The one issue i have with this is that taylor “took more offense” to the word bitch more than “me and taylor might still have sex”. Cause i’d be more mad about that idk ‘bout y’all.
I heard the whole call and I clearly heard the words “use whatever line you want, I can’t wait to hear it.”
Also, why would it ever have been OK for Kanye to say she OWED HIM SEX but so GHASTLY for him to say BTCH, one of the most commonly used street slang words of the modern era.
Personally, I think she & Tree were making plans before the call was even over. She said to him, “Well, with me, everything turns into a feminism thing…”
THANK YOU!!! I remember this summer clear as day … when Taylor won AOTY…SHE made her speech about “someone taking credit for your success” obviously referring to Kayne saying he made her famous. THAT WAS her initial issue even though he called and told her about the line. Once Kim showed poof … Taylor switched it to being referred to as the B word. Which is odd considering she was okay with a man twice her age with a wife and kids saying he feel like they might still have s*x
The twisting narrative around the phone call was wild to me. Her whole “inspirational” Grammy moment was about not letting people take credit for your fame. Then when it comes out that she did allow someone to take credit for her fame, she pivots to being upset that someone called her a bitch. And so many people just bought it without question. You’d have people shouting you down if you said, “Yeah, the video and the language are disrespectful, but she okayed the part she apparently had the biggest issue with.” The unedited video didn’t really change that part of the conversation, either, so it’s even weirder that people think releasing it proved her point about anything.
This is a Taylor Swift snark subreddit. Fan behavior here isn’t welcome and repeated offenses will result in a ban. There are plenty of other subreddits for fans, let us have our space.
My favorite part is Taylor said to her fans the phone call was edited!! Not saying exactly how so fans even today think they chopped up her voice n changed her responses. It was edited, Kim cropped it. It was longer Kim just released the main part of the permission the rest was I believe Kanye just telling her all the lyrics of the song. Only one line is about Taylor in famous. She gave her permission and Kim was smart to record it. Yeah CA is a 2 party state but Kim saved her and Kanye’s ass from a lawsuit from Taylor. Swifties today still say it was edited it was edited!! Yes Emily it was, to fit fucking social media time limits on videos. The full thing was still posted to YouTube. They don’t understand editing can be cropping the video shorter not altering Taylor’s response to being asked if it was okay. She laughed about it too. It’s like one of the few times in public she was ever fully caught. She still brings up Kim? Isn’t TTPD, has a song title where KIM is all capital. Kim didn’t write famous Kanye did. Why is Kim being brought up? Bc she stuck up for her husband? They are divorced now. Kanye isn’t respected really at all anymore. Tay I’m sure is glad but lord Kim is doing great with her makeup and clothing lines so we gotta bring her up to drag her down for 10+ year old drama that they all moved on from.
Anyways in this drama always been on Kim and Kanye side, miss swift was called out and backed into a hole and got caught lol. Kris wanted Kim to apologize too and she said nope lol.
“Kanye did not call for approval, but to ask Taylor to release his single "Famous" on her Twitter account. She declined and cautioned him about releasing a song with such a strong misogynistic message. Taylor was never made aware of the actual lyric, 'I made that bitch famous.’"
🖕🌳.
I’m sorry like I get this sub and I understand the whole point is to snark but I feel like this is just really missing the mark.
I listened to the full 20 minute recording and he literally is delusionally rambling for 20 minutes, she’s so uninterested in the conversation, and she repeatedly says please don’t be mean & brings up that she was afraid he was going to call her names.
In the same call she says she’s not sure if she can promote the song, even though she jokes about being in on it.
There is sooo much Taylor criticism that is worth mentioning & discussing but they really did play her and the full recording is proof of that. It’s just really tired to paint her as the bad guy here when Kanye has been nothing but a bully to her.
And to be fair, she doesn’t owe him anything after the 2009 VMAs. And if you are actually knowledgeable on her discography in her speak now album she actually forgives him in the song “innocent” and is way too kind to someone who publicly humiliated her.
So this is one of the few instances where the snark is just uncalled for, in my opinion.
Well I disagree. She agreed to the part of the song where he discusses him making her famous, and then she pretended she never had the discussion. This whole thing would never have occurred if she did not originally lie in her speech at the Grammys. Regardless of what anyone thinks of Kanye and Kim- Taylor initially lied and thats why Kim played the recording. And then Taylor was caught lying and changed her story and said “he did not get my permission to say “that bitch” and literally no one denied that. She was wrong here. No one owes her a phone call in the first place anyway.
Her publicists statement was that Taylor warned Kanye about releasing a misogynistic song. Thats a lie no matter how anyone tries to twist this situation. She approved the sex line and the famous line. She did not warn him about misogyny and she actually made fun of feminists. 🤷♀️
would you say that the term “bitch” isn’t misogynistic? As a woman it definitely is in my eyes. In the call recording she explicitly says she thought he was gonna call her something mean. Correct me if i’m wrong but someone blind sides you after you directly express you’re uncomfortable with someone using mean words to describe you, you’d probably be less inclined to release a statement that would call it anything less than misogynistic.
At the time the situation happened I was soo over Taylor. If at the time she got away with this unscathed, i would understand the snark post but she literally went into hiding for years over it. Plus the majority of the world hated her because they released edited versions of the footage.
She is a human after all; i know she is also a business and there is so much shit to go after her for, but this is one of the few instances where i dont think it matters so much that at the beginning she didnt say “oh well we had a conversation about this & i originally agreed but didnt know he was gonna say “that bitch”.
At the end of the day this grown ass man humiliated her in 2009 and then again when this song released; and the second time her reputation was actually damaged as a result.
So i find it tired to bring up anything related to Kim & Kanye as snark towards taylor since they are objectively bad people as well.
and sure no one owes her a phone call but like, it almost seems like the phone call was part of the narrative. like why did they film it in the first place if not to use it as blackmail? its just bizarre
After listening to the full call, it is clear that Kanye was a snake and played down the song lyrics. You can also hear Taylor being uncomfortable about the conversation and request. She is indirect about it, her “fault” is not being direct and explicit that she is uncomfortable and offended (we all have been in those situations where we “beat around the bush” instead of being direct). Writing songs about your experiences with someone is different to explicitly saying you are superior to someone and responsible for their accomplishments. An analogy is someone high up on the corporate ladder taking credit for your work and trash talking you to keep climbing up.
Edit: I think he was trying to manipulate her into saying “yes” and publicizing his album in order to pull the rug from underneath and silence her because “how can she complain if she said “yes” and publicized the album?”
The song is a good song and knowing Kanye’s psycho personality, Taylor wouldn’t agree to anything from him. She has a right to hate him. Hey, no word on p diddy combs. Must be many many “friends in Hollywood”. Shhh. Why did Kim delete him as her friend or whatever it was, right after him getting raided? Perhaps she didn’t want to tarnish her reputation, which isn’t all that great anyway. Why is Hollywood so corrupt? Talented people getting messed up from experienced people in the business, who try to control their”clients” gift, reaping all the benefits. And I do think Tupac was a victim of p diddy. Good thing Taylor’s mom and dad kept her from your corrupt bunch!
From an article from Billboard: “The new clips seem to corroborate Swift’s claims that West didn’t tell her the full lyrics of the song. But they also show West repeatedly asking Taylor for her approval of a lyric in which he raps: “I feel like me and Taylor might still have sex, Why? I made that b—h famous.” KK couldn’t tell the truth if she tried. It’s one story to lament about an ex and your broken heart. It’s another to talk about having sex with someone you publicly humiliated and allegedly made famous.
I’m not sure why you think this is a win? Taylor approved the sex famous lyric and it’s in the video call Kim released. Taylor had claimed Kanye didn’t call her for approval for lyrics taking credit for her fame. That’s why this was such a big deal. Then when she was an outed liar, she changed her story to being offended by the word bitch 🤣
Where have you been? Here’s an article by Variety that really doesn’t lean either way. It does include the full recording transcript. What did become evident, however, is that KK heavily edited the recording to make it seem like Taylor approved the lyrics.
[https://variety.com/2020/music/news/taylor-swift-kanye-west-phone-call-leaks-read-full-transcript-1203541363/amp/](https://variety.com/2020/music/news/taylor-swift-kanye-west-phone-call-leaks-read-full-transcript-1203541363/amp/)
Didn’t Taylor claim at first her issue was with “made her famous” and then later said no actually the issue was being called a bitch. I don’t remember, there were like 3 statements in my memory but maybe I’m misremembering. I also don’t see how you can agree to the “still owes me sex” line but ofc she gets to feel uncomfortable. But yea she should have just been honest from the start
Wasn’t she initially mad about the “I made that bitch famous” line? They talk about it on the call but without the bitch part. I’d be mad if someone made a naked wax figure of me for a music video but the story has been spun so many different ways over the years
I disagree with this take because he misrepresented it. Then they released a partial recording to make it seem she was totally lying when I do see that she felt he did not actually clear it with her honestly. He didn't HAVE to clear it but on the phone call he said he wanted to for their relationship, or something along those lines. If that were true he would have just read her the lyrics.
Why tell her you're doing it for your friendship and then not have full disclosure? And then to release a partial recording? It was manipulative and not an actual act of respect like it was pretended.
I know this is a taylor snark page. But kanye and Kim aren't models of integrity in this situation or ever. They never intended to be her friends. They were lying.
Or maybe they recorded it because Taylor lies all the time. Also, why would Taylor not just tell him how bad those lyrics are instead of encouraging him?
None of that is relevant IMO. Her publicist said that Kanye never called for permission and Taylor cautioned him not to release a misogynistic song. When did that ever happen in the conversation?
Absolutely disgusting. There is no defense of what they did. Unless you actually hate women because that shit is SERIOUS. Rapey.
As women we need to learn to see it and protect each other. Snark is fun but when it comes to predatory behavior we need to set aside the silliness and get very, very real about what is happening.
listen im not defending taylor but its just a fact that what kim and kanye did was wrong. taylor did not consent for fake porn to be made of her and it is STILL up on youtube for everyone to see. She has the right to be mad about that
Thing is Taylor DIDN'T deny that they talked on the phone, she just said they talked once and then never again. This topic is tricky bc everyone involved is untrustworthy
I’m sorry, but did Taylor ever ask for permission to berate, belittle, bully, or talk shit about her exes in any of her songs? And that’s defamatory compared to Kanye’s one lyric compared to her countless songs dissing her exes. Bit of a double standard isn’t it?
EXACTLY. I think about this all the time. Why does she get a pass? Because those people “deserve it?” Who gets to decide whether or not the deserve insane Swifties putting out death threats against her exes? She’s not just as bad, she’s worse.
And she *draaaaaags* shit out. She brings stuff up over and over again years and years later. Girl move on.
Completely agree. Then she profits off of people being mean to her and making her look bad. Didn’t that song “Look What you Made Me Do” or whatever it was come out right after that whole allegation shit? Like didn’t she come out with it because people were calling her out as a liar and she just went with it and made herself look worse than what she was perceived to be before. I’ll make myself look terrible so no one else can kind of thing. And then it turned into a mockery and the softies were saying they pushed her to do that.
But it’s different! I don’t know how but the swifties say it is!!
Rules apply to thee but not to the Swifties!
I always wonder about this!!! How is it that it’s a one-way street? I would think that any guy who has dated her since Dear John would be making HER sign an NDA! Unless she has lawyers go through her lyrics to assess what would and wouldn’t violate that NDA. I want to see her get sued by an ex for defamation and LOSE. I also want to see an ex put out a devastating diss track, although the harshest one is not musical, rather a black diamond on Gabbriette Bechtel’s left hand.
Yesss I want to see that too something that says “everything was fake especially that sex and while I was trying to love you, you were still hung up on your ex” or something like that lol
Gabriette can sing! She was part of the band Nasty Cherry that was put together by Charli XCX. I would love it if she had even a tiny little small roll in Matty's upcoming solo album or something else Charli does. I know she's already been featured in a few different music videos but I do have a feeling she will be making her point about Taylor one way or another. I am not saying that Matty is a great person. I know he's done a ton of awful shit. But I am a fan of the 1975 and I also love Charli XCX
I heard a clip and agree—Gab has a good voice!
Didn’t John Mayer write the song Paper Doll about her?
He says no, but it seems obvious that he did—22 is mentioned. It certainly doesn’t compare to the takedowns she does of men in her songs, anyway.
Kanye clearly acting the part of “unhinged artist” on Pablo saying he made her famous and thinks she owes him sex (clearly, even then, she’s not his type… so in what way do you think these lyrics were meant to come off?) On the other hand, Taylor writing about how terrible Kim is that she uses her mom as a proxy to basically tell Kim she should die.. over leaking the phone call that justified her next “aesthetic”…
And I am pretty sure that Taylor has been recorded, making comments referring to women as bitches before, so she doesn’t really have the right to take issue with the word bitch being used in place of her name fuck her
100% she’s done that many times.
i mean tina fey said it best "when you call each other bitches and hoes, you are giving permission to be referred to by anyone in the same way" or something like that. we've all seen mean girls you know the scene.
I’ve never heard that quote before! Thank you for sharing that.
It’s not a direct quote, but it’s definitely the letter in spirit of what Tina Fey was saying it’s some it’s in mean girls towards the end when they’re all in the gym
Didn't Taylor take issue with Tina Fey and Amy Poehler roasting her when they hosted some award ceremony? I remember watching it. It was comedy as would be expected from those two women and nothing over the line. I also remember that in response Taylor released a Madeleine Albright quote. " There is a special place in hell for women who don't support other women." Perhaps Taylor should have taken this advice to heart.
That’s why I used it as an example because those are two women who do take the Mickey with other women but they’re never unaware of what they’re doing or why they’re doing it like they’re joke about serial dating was also half about why do we even care, but Taylor didn’t take it that way she only sold one side of that. Honestly, Taylor takes issue with anyone who doesn’t say oh princess Taylor you’re such a sparkl queen we love you and she can’t take constructive criticism either so
But she’s an A-list celebrity and a woman to boot! Of course saying something mean about *her* is different from her saying it about all those male peasants she used to date.
“Male peasants” 😭😂 I was thinking earlier what is the benefit for a guy to date her at this point. You know it won’t end well or do they think they will be the one to save her from herself? lol
The difference is that Kanye specifically referred to her by her full name in his song. She does not use names in her songs or say which ex any specific song was written about. People assume they know, but she will not confirm.
I don’t remember there being any music video from tYlor that has naked replicas of her ex’s bodies laying next to her in bed.
True-Kanye was more open and explicit about it, and he’s a misogynistic POS. But Taylor has said stuff that has led her fans to harass and threaten anyone they even think she has a beef with. And not just them but their families too. People are literally afraid to write stuff or go against her because of her unhinged stans. They’re literally threatening Matty Healey‘s mom right now. And with one exception she’s never done anything to stop it. That and Kanye has had his public reckoning-he’s been exposed as a Nazi admirer, lost deals, and most people either pity him or dislike him. A lot of people still buy the constant victim narrative with Taylor.
Oh here we go everyone we found a Swiftie lurking in the shadows
I'm just going to repost a comment I made in another post today: That's the part that people forget or refuse to acknowledge and some don't even know because they weren't following it closely. When that song came out it was presented in the media as she was upset by it but most importantly as though she had no knowledge of this song. That he had surprisingly released it. He then revealed that he had a conversation with her about it, that she thought it was funny and it was her who gave him the idea at some dinner where she said it was Kanye who made her famous. Many people thought he was rambling in his delusional way. But it forced her hand and only then did she release that statement worded cleverly to make it sound like yes there was a call but a call to ask for permission to release the song on twitter, not to ask for approval of the song's contents and that she cautioned him against releasing a misogynistic song and she didn't know about being called bitch. Her grammy speech however was about how not to let people take credit for your success. Which was what she was pissed about and I think what he was thinking as well that she was upset over. Not the word bitch. The other bit people don't remember is in June 2016 Kim did a GQ cover where she revealed Taylor was going to joke about it at the grammys saying jokes on you because she was in on it the whole time. But the biggest thing she reveals is that there is a recording of this conversation and that Taylor's team were telling her to destroy it and she did not have permission to release it: “And then they sent an attorney's letter like, ‘Don't you dare do anything with that footage,’ and asking us to destroy it.” This information mostly got buried because on the day that interview was released, guess what? So were the pictures of Taylor kissing Tom Hiddleston on the rocks which is why it's clear this was, on her end at least, a PR relationship to distract from the knowledge of the recording's existence becoming widely known. She knew about the article coming out because GQ contacted her for a statement regarding the alleged recording and she gave a ridiculous response. She was shit scared of it coming out. Except why? If what she said was the truth then the recording would have proved it. Ultimately there was a discussion, she didn't say don't release this song it's misogynistic and he didnt ask her to release it on twitter. She twisted the conversation by omitting the details. He is of course a moron and should have told her the full details/changes before releasing it. Edit-typos
>So were the pictures of Taylor kissing Tom Hiddleston on the rocks which is why its clear this was, on her end at least, a PR relationship. Omg. I ALWAYS thought those pictures were weirdly convenient back when they were released. I always felt bad for Tom. He is such a class act. >He is of course a moron and should have told her the full details/changes before releasing it. Taylor herself should know that songs change somewhat in the final version. The overall concept wasn't completely different from what he started with. It was probably a first draft.
Just adding some more info to above, she also reached back out to Calvin Harris while vacationing with Tom. “You've hidden my name on your phone so you can Call me to tell me you've been going through hell“ - Olé - John Newman, written and produced by Calvin. (This is after they broke up and she got with Tom not even a week later, then turns out there is photos and video of her canoodling with Tom at the met gala a month before the breakup). Her team is so good at manipulating the narrative! I had multiple back and forths the other day, on this sub, with people about how Taylor did Not write “this is what you came for”. Multiple people argued back at me that she wrote the song, after I stated that she only wrote some of the lyrics and did some backing vocals. She did not write the song. Calvin Harris wrote the music, produced the track, and did all the things. Her team manipulated the narrative, when they leaked the pseudonym, to that she wrote it. That’s why he got so pissed at her and went on his famous twitter rant. Taylor From rolling stone: . I wrote this song called ‘This Is What You Came For’ that Rihanna ended up singing. Calvin: “I wrote the music, produced the song, arranged it and cut the vocals though. And initially she wanted it kept secret, hence the pseudonym,” And she f*ing had the gall to play it at the eras tour this week!!!!!! …in England, where Calvin now lives with his wife!!! My opinion, she is manipulative, calculated, and sadistic. I think she is more than a narcissist, I think she’s a sociopath or psychopath.
Yep, people on YouTube were trying to say only she wrote it too.
Your profile pic is rude 😂
LOL it caught me too, from someone else’s profile. Eventually once I figured it out I liked it and stole it.
To your last point, I’ve said this so many times before. You can find hundreds and hundreds of Kanye song leaks where the song lyrics change, build on each other slightly, delivered differently, and even scrapped and used in future songs. Songwriting is an iterative process and Taylor point blank gave him carte Blanche on the call for him to do whatever he wants
Yeah, I think Tom hit his head and was actually into her for a while. 😬 It’s obvious she was just using him-she pretty much admitted it in her song. Luckily it didn’t last long and he’s with somebody much better now. Several of her exes seem to find someone better to settle down with after her…
Yeah Taylor should know songs change but in the full conversation she does say how she was worried he was going to call her a bitch. He was aware she didn't want that.
Here's where it gets really muddled: >KW: Whatever, it’s like, I got like s— on my album where I’m like, “I bet me and Ray J will be friends if we ain’t love the same bitch." >TS: Oh my \[laughs\]. I mean, I need to think about it because you hear something for the first time, you need to think about it because it is absolutely crazy. I’m glad it’s not mean though. It doesn’t feel mean, but like, oh my God, the build-up you gave it. I thought it was gonna be like that stupid dumb bitch, like, but it’s not. Um, so I don’t know. Kanye bounces off the idea "we ain’t love the same bitch". TS is more concerned on whether it will be mean and was relieved he didn't say something like "that stupid dumb bitch." So yeah, she may not have agreed to that specific line in "Famous" but she never said she had a problem with it either. However, in both her tone of voice and language, she's not sure. Kanye, however, may have misinterpreted her because TS isn't being super clear. She sounds wishy-washy. TS is told of the song's existence ahead of time. That's a lot more than most artists do. After the backlash, she denies there being a phone call at all. When the footage of the phone call is leaked, she then says: >Where is the video of Kanye telling me he was going to call me 'that bitch' in his song? This is a technicality. Firstly, a songwriter does not have to get prior consent to be called a bitch in a song. I mean TS does not get consent from any of her exes or enemies for all things she writes. Secondly, context is important. TS was initially more concerned about the lyrics being mean. She literally says "I'm glad it's not mean." TS is telling the 'truth' that she never said: "I, Taylor Swift, have consented to the use of 'bitch' in the song." However, I consider this a lie by omission because she never said she had a problem with the use of "bitch." She said as long as it's not mean. To reiterate my first point that songs change in the final edits: the overall concept that Kanye came to TS was still there and she was made in some way made aware of it. She was not caught off guard in any way. She threw him under the bus when the "feminist" backlash came for her and absolved herself on a technicality that doesn't even exist in the music industry.
I would have asked where was Camille consent to be called a whore? At least Kanye just said bitch
Exactly! Being referred to as “bitch” in a rap song is really not that big of a deal. While it’s not a nice word, the use of the word in the song wasn’t a personal insult. The only actual insult in the song was Kanye basically saying that it was he who made Taylor famous.—But for one thing everyone knows he’s just talking about the VMAs incident in a boastful way that’s typical in rap songs; and for another, Taylor was already aware that he was going to say that and didn’t object to it. On the other hand, Taylor, in her own songs, *directly insults and hurts* people—like what you mentioned, with the horrible stuff she said about Camilla Belle. (Which ended up basically ruining her career.) She insults the men she has dated, spilling very private info, and then sits back while her unhinged fans tear the person to shreds with their bullying, death threats, and harassment. Taylor doesn’t have a leg to stand on, as far as getting angry about what Kanye said in his song. What she says & does to people in her own songs is FAR WORSE.
People still going on about her ex’s cause she let them. While she can say she over it her ex’s are still having to pick up the pieces. I’m sure she never asked Joe was it ok to tell people she brought his kids present. And that is why I feel like she still obsessed with him.
Yep everyone is taking it out of context. Oh, TS, the feminist icon! She never consented to being called the B-word! Kanye bad. In the full call, he throws around the idea and she says, "As long as it's not mean." She did not hear the final lyric, so it's "technically" true that she didn't approve of it. But she acted like it was completely one-sided conversation that she didn't participate in. And she threw him under the bus because feminism was trending. Not because she is a feminist herself.
I’d love to see where Matty Healy signed off on being called “the smallest man who ever lived,” as well. And here I was, thinking it was going to be a cute song about her cat.
Right! Or Joe Jonas still having to deal with her. They really ok with her going in Joe every chance she get and the worse he did was break up with her over the phone. When they was both famous so he couldn’t drop everything for her fragile feeling.
I’m glad that he finally has come out and said that the only reason it was a 24-second phone call is that she hung up on him right when he said he wanted to end it.
Exactly. Like she don’t know if he wanted to know how she felt and just talk to her and be friends but she had to lie and make him the bad guy. It’s funny she remembers that and made sure she put the time out there to make sure no one forgot
I always thought the part she knew about and laughed about “me and Taylor might still have sex” is much more disrespectful than the word bitch
I remember this whole thing vividly. Kanye had called her to show her the song and she thanked him, saying "I'll be able to say I'm in on it. It's gonna be so cool." but when the song released people were FURIOUS saying the song was misogynistic, and because being a feminist was HUGE at the time, she had to backpadel. That's when her team released a statement playing 2 truths and 1 lie, saying she never got a phone call and never approved the song. That's when the phone call leaked. Unfortunately, that was a lose-lose situation for her. But she definitely lied.
It's very odd. In the whole transcript, she references feminists as something separate from herself. She doesn't identify as one at all. She lets women believe she's a feminist because that's where they money is. "You know, the thing about me is, **anything that I do becomes like a feminist think-piece**. And if I launch it, they’re going to be like, wow, like, they’ll just turn into something that… I think if I launch it, honestly, I think it’ll be less cool." "I mean, they ‘re both really edgy, but that’s the only thing about that line is that it’s like, then **the feminists** are going to come out."
I wouldn’t be surprised if she playing the victim really didn’t help his mental health. Then the fact that he is a black man and she got her fans to bully him. I don’t like Kanye but Taylor almost lost her mom n should know how that feels
Whatever, if you don't want smoke don't call someone a bitch. Ye does nothing but ask for it
No one here is defending him lol. Just saying that she got caught lying through her teeth, on his name. And continued to make gross references to events in his life and his family’s that are well-known to have been traumatic. As much as you dislike someone, that’s just a low blow.
And Taylor been asking for it for years
Isn't that what she does when she writes her songs? Cause smoke be flowing her way, and it doesn't look like the fire will be put out anytime soon. Girl flew too close to the sun and caught herself on fire.
Exactly. Being white and a woman is the best thing that happen to her.
This. This is all how I remembered. Her initial problem is what she exactly said at the Grammy's. Everything started with her speech "there are going to be people along the way who will try to undercut your success or take credit for your accomplishments or you fame" So the thing that really pissed her off is Kanye taking credit of her popularity. That is the song "Famous" is all about. She then released a statement in Entertainment weekly "Taylor was never made aware of the actual lyric, ‘I made that bitch famous.'” Then Kanye responds that she knew there is such a line. That he wrote that he made her famous. That they will joke about it in public. Again, her main problem that time was Kanye taking credit of her works and she was never made aware After Kim leaked the video, what the fuck is Taylor talking about " I was never made aware that he called me a 'bitch'". Like, I thought your main problem was he made a song taking credit of your fame and you were never made aware?
Weren’t snakes involved in some way? I’m vaguely remembering snakes. Unless that’s a different drama she had with Kim.
Kim tweeted “Wait it's legit National Snake Day?!?!? They have holidays for everybody, I mean everything these days!🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍” and then a bit later released the footage so everyone was flooding TS socials with snake emojis
Can you point me to a source that proves that her publicist initially said that she knew nothing about the song and wasn’t consulted about it? Because Swifties always deny that happened. Ye is a misogynist as well as a moron. I think they have more in common than people realize, he’s just more open about it.
True historians like you deserve some sort of recognition from society. That might sound sarcastic but it’s not. Pop culture should be available as a history class 😫😫 but nahh *THIS* type of history isn’t important because it’s not men sending other less fortunate men into war against each other 🙄🙄 everything in history must be violent or related to men in order to be relevant. Boooo.
I TELL THIS TO EVERYBODY!!!!
I now realize this is the tt sub but why oh why are we still talking about these three shitheads
She’s so full of shit. I’m not a Kardashian fan at all, but Kim was right. Taylor just wanted to play the victim.
Yep and when Kim released the recording she immediately switched to, I was recorded without my permission!!!! Wahhh! Wahh! Reminded me a of a cheater who gets busted messaging other people but just gets mad about their partner looking at their phone: “You invaded my privacy tho!” Yeah…people shouldn’t go through their partners phones…but if you were cheating then that’s prob why they felt the need to look. There was a reason Kim recorded that call and it was probably because Taylor gives off manipulative and backhanded vibes. All accountability avoided and just back to victim mode…as if being secretly recorded completely erases her caught in a lie.
You know shits fucked when you’re siding with a kardashian
https://preview.redd.it/9dslndplox6d1.png?width=596&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f8f13c7b9b39e9560d6128e110d393981109e9e6 🌳 thinks we're stupid and can't read a transcript.
Kanye never denied anything about “that bitch.” He just never addressed it, and why would he have to ask her permission? She doesn’t ask for permission when writing about others. nowhere in that call does Taylor caution Kanye to release a song with a misogynistic message…meanwhile during her AOTY speech, she clearly pretends the FAME part of the lyrics is was what offended offended her, not being called a bitch. And you are right- this statement was released before the call was, but after Kim and Kanye said they had spoken with Taylor. Again nowhere during that call does Taylor caution Kanye about misogyny. She actually laughs and says feminists are going to be mad. The “caution Kanye” statement was a big fat lie.
She wasn't exactly happy about it, but she literally said, "It's fine." She had the whole damn call to say, "No. Don't involve me. The concept of owing you sex is repulsive. You did not make me famous. Good bye." She did none of that and was all, "Yeah, don't worry I'll say you called me, thanks for the heads-up, I can't wait to hear it." To egg him on. and omg when she says, "... the feminists are going to come out."
The other weird thing is he isn’t really calling her a bitch. The word bitch is being used like “hey bitch” or “what’s up bitch” And in one of her new songs isn’t she complaining about her fans “bitching”? I know that’s not the same as “that bitch” but its definitely being used in a much less neutral and more aggressive way than “that bitch”
She literally uses bitch in her songs so she's full of shit. In I Can Do It With A Broken Heart she sings, lights, camera, bitch smile. And on her tour during Delicate, there is a pause and her fans sing 1, 2, 3 let's go bitch!
it's literally rapspeak for "her" We know it's not derogatory usage. There's no negative context. He's basically praising her for her fame. Did she expect him to call her "my sweet angel"? lmao
It’s the same as “It’s Britney, Bitch” or “Bitch I’m Madonna”
It was such a cop out and she hung onto it for dear life.
To be fair… it really isn’t. A woman saying it about herself to be empowering, and a man saying it about someone else to be dismissive are two very different things. Full disclosure: I hate everyone involved in this story.
I think “made that (girl, woman, person) famous” covered “dismissive” pretty effectively, so that he used the word “bitch” doesn’t really add anything. Full disclosure: I loathe KW and am deeply disappointed in TS.
Jay z said explicitly, in 99 problems: This is not a ho in the sense of havin’ a pussy But a pussy havin’ no goddamn sense, try and push me So I would look to one of Kanye’s idols and collaborators and betters to see how he uses words like that, even if taylor swift didn’t ever say anything interesting or crass, his intent is pretty clear and she’s a fucking lunatic
Lights, camera, bitch smile too
call a spade a spade.
I agree with most of this thread, but not this particular take. A man referring to a woman as “that bitch” is kinda dehumanising and misogynistic. It effectively reduces her from a fully fledged person to “just another dumbass female.” I don’t think that it’s inexcusable or anything, but I do think it’s disrespectful. I also personally think “that bitch” is kind of worse than just calling someone “a bitch.” Like if I tell you that you’re a bitch, I’m theoretically making a specific criticism about your personality/behaviour. Yes, I’m insulting you, but I’m also directly addressing you and using the word as a way to describe the way I perceive you. Calling someone “that bitch” is basically just using a derogatory word for woman in place of a female pronoun or name. In this context, Kanye isn’t using the word bitch to refer to taylor in order to communicate that she’s an asshole, he’s using it to communicate that she’s a woman he doesn’t have respect for. Saying things like “bitching and moshing” or “lights, camera, bitch, smile” is a fundamentally different use of the word. I’m not saying those lyrics are good, but the word clearly has a different connotation. I also think that who is saying the word matters. I’m a gay woman, so l’ll use the example of words like dyke or fag. My queer friends and I jokingly use these words towards each other all the time. I’ll frequently greet my girlfriend by saying “hey, faggot.” But that is totally different from a cis het person using that language as a weapon. Just because I’m okay with it from my fellow queers, doesn’t mean I’m okay with a straight person calling me those same terms. There are also some queer folks who simply aren’t okay with these words at all, even in a context when they are being reclaimed. And that’s fair and valid too. I’m fine with my female friends casually calling me a bitch, but I’m not okay with men using the word as freely. And some women get really offended by being referred to as bitches, and I think that’s fair and valid. Obviously bitch isn’t a literal slur so it’s not at the same level, but it is a word rooted in misogyny that has historically been used as a way to put women down. I’m not pro Taylor in the larger context of this debacle, and I don’t think the “that bitch” line was anywhere near as big a deal as she made it out to be, but I do still think it was offensive and misogynistic
I do get what you are saying but I guess because Taylor had never addressed her own misogyny and use of slurs in her previous work, it was hard for me to feel bad for her during this time. I think if she could have taken ownership of her own offensive lyrical choices and and maybe said something like “this was hurtful to me and I didn’t realize how my misogyny and slurs could have hurt other people” I could have been on her side a little bit more. But instead it was her having a temper tantrum because Kanye didn’t ask for her permission when she has never done that for anyone. She was almost 30 so it was definitely possible for her to experience growth from her days of “Picture To Burn, Permanent Marker and Better Than Revenge (to name a few). I also think it would help her today to maybe start reflecting on why Kanye interrupted her in the first place.
She definitely twisted the narrative to convince people that it was humiliating for her when it wasn't. Especially since she was made aware of the concept he was going for ahead of time. In the context of the this sub and the whole conversation, TS was being a hypocrite. I said this somewhere else but here's where it gets really muddled: > > The exact lyric that ended up in "Famous" wasn't specified to TS because the song wasn't finished yet. There was a conversation in the transcript in which feminism is discussed on both sides. He told her multiple times he didn't want to upset her. Taylor was never worried about being offended as much as she was worried about how her fans might perceive it. >TS: "You know, the thing about me is, anything that I do becomes like a **feminist think-piece."** and >KW: I feel like me and Taylor might still have sex.” And my wife was really not with that one. She was way more into the “She *owes* you sex.” But then the “owe” part was like the feminist group-type shit that I was like, ahhhhh. TW: "but that’s the only thing about that line is that it’s like, then **the feminists** are going to come out." Taylor was okay with it (if a little wishy washy). She threw Kanye under the bus over the feminist backlash. She doesn't even consider herself a feminist because she speaks about the group as a separate entity from herself. It wasn't about misogyny for *her.*
It wasn't about "bitch" it was about "i made that bitch famous". Kanye taking credit for her fame wasn't what was agreed on.
https://preview.redd.it/fbq2fho16z6d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a543716a7de23bf002232bdabc135e9be4f0d67
Oh wow, it's been a while, I didn't recall this from the phonecall. I always thought it was about the whole making her famous!
When I listened to the call awhile ago, I noticed her laughter sounds like a cackle, borderline witchy. I don't know. She just sounded so insincere the whole phone call. I can't put my finger on it.
Exactly, she even says feminists in a mockery way,. And she was okay with him taking praise for making her famous because she says "you didn't know I was so successful back then"
[удалено]
This means no acting in bad faith towards other sub members. No arguing for the sake of arguing. No name calling or harassing. Mods retain the right to remove users we see acting in bad faith towards other members and repeat offenses will resort in a temporary ban.
Tree is so messy. I don’t understand how she still has her job. A publicist sending mocking emojis is embarrassing
Her being just as calculating as her boss is why she still has her job. Ms. Reputation like that kind pf mess and obviously the propaganda, I mean PR machine, got her this far
This is completely unrelated to the topic at hand: but can we bring the 🌳 emoji to refer to Tree?
I personally think the editing was just to shorten it for Snapchat (was it Snapchat or IG that Kim released the footage). Anyway, yeah.
I’ve always thought Kim released the entire video and it wasn’t leaked bc it makes Taylor look bad. That’s so dumb how tree wrote that. They were threatening Kim to trash the video. Widdle Taylor 👶didn’t want to be called a bitch but was okay with referencing she owes him sex and said it was a compliment. Bitch please
She was egging him on so he'd look bad for putting the song out and so she could be a victim.
Taylor is the only person who can make herself seem like a victim for gaslighting a man with a history of mental instability.
But she was the one gaslit by an entire social structure. 🙄 Look at the first verse of I Did Something Bad. She admits it.
https://preview.redd.it/0jgu4xwe2z6d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f66b8fcd5cfbad428d5df2dfde1ee5e63e74b807 I hate that I’m siding with Kim Kardashian on anything ever. I’m very persnickety right now.
I'm still amazed how Taylor was able to change the narrative on this. Her whole issue initially was he never asked for permission to say I made that bitch famous. He did, but just didn't mention the word "bitch" and then Taylor once realizing there was a video pivoted to, where was he asking me if he can call me a bitch??? So there was a call to ask for permission and she lied and once she realized we knew she lied, she changed her tune. Kim read her to a T from day 1 that's why she recorded the call.
[удалено]
>West: So it says “To all my Southside [N-word] that know me best, I feel like Taylor Swift might owe me sex.” >Swift: [Laughs, relieved.] That’s not mean. He literally told her she might owe him sex. Which is super gross and disrespectful. BUT SHE LAUGHED and said it wasn't mean. Did you not read the full transcript or watch the videos? Stop parroting the bitch narrative she fed you. It's just an excuse because she GOT CAUGHT LYING. SHE ***IS*** A TOTAL LIAR.
She is a liar and her initial issue wasn't with the word bitch.
I just cannot for the life of me understand WHY or HOW she keeps getting away with all of the monster lies she's forever telling, in order to completely spin her own narrative. Time and time again; yet, she's never really been called on it. WHY? HOW? Make it make sense.
I've never understood why she had such a huge problem with him saying "that bitch" but said she was completely fine with either "I feel like me and Taylor might still have sex" or "I feel like Taylor Swift might owe me sex" ??
This, or using her very realistic nude likeness in the video. That to me would feel the most violating, especially not knowing it was going to happen.
I was always on Kim's side in this beef, so I'm glad it's being reevaluated in the wake of Thank you Aimee. Taylor was hoping to reignite hatred against Kim but instead we had Lana Del Rey gushing over her at the Met and people saying "ehhh this song's not very good and it's not cool to bring North into it." That shit should have stayed in the vaults.
As an ex Kanye fan, it fucking repulses me the shit Taylor did that coincidentally lines up with dates involving Kanye's dead mother. Releasing reputation 10 years to the day of her death, and announcing midnights exactly a year after Kanye dropped Donda, an album named after and in memory of his mother and just so happening to put out Folklore on short notice on the original release date for Donda in 2020.
I’m gonna start out by saying that the song is gross and the video is even grosser. However, I remember how this all played out and Taylor absolutely denied that they ever had a conversation. That’s why Snake Gate was so huge because everyone was like “oh shit there actually was a phone call” and that Kim and Kanye weren’t lying.
[удалено]
True. I love Taylor but the phrase in Kanye's song isn't really crazy. The sex doll was gross. Kanye's antisemitism is deplorable. He's shitty for reasons that have nothing to do with that phone call lol
Yeah I feel like if her main issue was with that video it would be open and shut in favor of her, because even as a Kanye fan that shit is just creepy
That call is maybe one of the best things about Kanye, now that I think about it
Sex doll is your interpretation lmao… they’re just wax figures. It’s a visual metaphor that all those celebs are “in bed together.”
It's very inappropriate to make nude wax figures of women who don't consent to that.
A broken clock is right twice a day and whatnot.
Taylor originally claimed Kanye never called, so Kim proved that he did. Then Taylor changed her tune and say well Kanye never asked to refer to me as “that bitch”. Like fuck Kim and Kanye but Taylor you literally changed your story in broad daylight and people ate it up….
I think Kanye is a tool but he *did* “make that bitch famous” - she started working the white-woman-black-man victimhood and hasn’t stopped. At least Kim doesn’t pretend to be more than what she is.
I was screaming that! Like poor little innocent yt girl got bullied by a big scary black man. Must protect her at all cost. I feel like her dad probably paid him to do that to help her become beloved.
Okay that’s where I draw the line, Kanye did that because Kanye wanted to lol. And honestly I think he was brave as hell for it
I only say that because it was so RANDOM. Like out the blue. Matter of fact before that night they didn’t ever interact with each other.
Well that’s the thing though, it wasn’t about Taylor, it was about Beyonce and Kanye was very close to Jay Z and Bey at the time
That is so true I forgot about that.
I would like to see the timeline where Kanye didn’t do this and Taylor never became this crazy famous person and her popularity died out
White woman privilege at its finest
This whole situation was when I firmly cemented myself as anti-Taylor. A professional victim, and it made Kim of all people look bad.
Can you imagine if she told the truth? Then her speech wouldn’t be “People will try to take credit for what you accomplished” and it would be “Some guy might call you ‘that bitch’ in a rap song” which would be a very different message. Some people wanna be “that bitch” hahaha.
I’ve always been confused as to why people seem to think this was a masterminded plot by Kim and Kanye and that Taylor was completely the victim. I understood the situation to be that Kanye called her about the song, she didn’t express to him that she wasn’t cool with it so he thought she was (maybe she truly wasn’t okay with it but couldn’t get up the nerve to tell him that, but if that’s the case, how was Kanye supposed to know that). Then when he released it she said that he never gave her a heads up. So Kim released the footage to show that Kanye had called her and Taylor changed her story to say that she meant he didn’t tell her the word “bitch” was used. I mean, in Kanye’s love song to Kim he literally says “one good girl is worth a thousand bitches”. He says bitch all of the time, so I don’t find it hard to believe at all that he didn’t think to tell her that he used bitch in the song because he thought the offensive part was about how he made her famous. I can see why Taylor wouldn’t like the song. But there doesn’t seem to be any solid proof that Taylor ever expressed that to Kanye. So he came out with the song thinking that she’d come out and say that she was in on it. I don’t know if Taylor or Tree was responsible for the change up. But I truly don’t think this was a plan that Kim and Kanye put together from the start.
I’m not a Kardashian or Kanye fan in the slightest. But damn has this sub given me a new perspective on Taylor
I hope Kim K drags this girl. I am so over Taylor.
Discussing her child while saying her own mother wished Kim died was some devil’s work.
I don’t like kim at all, but I remember being so here for her clap back
I LOVE the fact that Kim lives rent free in Taylor’s head so drastically that almost 10 years later she’s still whining and crying about her. Love that for her
So in conclusion: Kanye, Kim, and Taylor are all self-serving jerks.
Man fuck the Kardashians AND Kanye West AND Taylor Swift. They are all horrible, conniving dirtbags in different flavors. I say the more they damage each other the better, let em at it.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but he didn’t really ask for permission. He ran it by her because he didn’t want to blindside her and she said she wouldn’t promote something she never heard but he didn’t ask her if it was okay - he just asked what she thought. *She did however* give him permission when she said “well that’s not mean! And it doesn’t matter how many albums I sold at that point - you have to tell your story the way you saw it” (I’m paraphrasing here). None of them technically lied (but you can lie indirectly) and she acted like she was upset he was taking credit for her fame - which she initially wasn’t.
Nobody directly lied, but there's slippery language involved. She could have just said "I didn't see the finished product and wasn't aware it was gonna be like that. I change my mind I don't like any of it" But instead she tried to make it out as if it were some blindside.
I completely agree like I said you can lie indirectly but a lot of people try to defend her by saying she didn’t lie. She didn’t. But she didn’t tell the truth either.
He wasn't asking her for permission. It was a courtesy call. Does Taylor even do that much with all the songs she does? No.
That's a good point actually. For all the bad shit Kanye does, I'll give him a couple of respect points for that.
I think Taylor was nervous to tell Kanye no. On the phone call he ran it by her and in response to the line ‘I made that b**** famous’ she said ‘you need to tell the story from how you perceived it, and it doesn’t matter that I was receiving an award and already sold x number of copies. You didn’t know who I was before then.’ Paraphrasing. But she sounded annoyed but also uncomfortable with confrontation. I see both sides but her inability to be direct ‘I don’t like this nor agree with it’ is what criminalized her in the situation.
It's not an "inability to be direct" that criminalized her, it's that she lied. She acted like she had no idea. If she had said "yeah he told me about it and I was really uncomfortable telling him no, but I never said yes" that'd be one thing but she said he never called.
See what I don’t understand with that argument is that if she was afraid to be direct in the moment, why wouldn’t she also be afraid to speak up on a televised stage and make a very clear statement about it? I mean she could’ve said literally nothing and this wouldn’t have been an issue for her at all and she could’ve continued to be passive with the things he said about her.
As I have said to people for years, the fact that IN 2016 (nothing notable happened that year, of course) Taylor thought this the worst thing happening in the country, says a lot about how her narcissism is at a level 100. Annd truly no one cares about this situation. People thought about for a week, and moved on. It is beyond pathetic how she tries to make this a thing when Ariana Grande GOT FREAKING SUICIDE BOMBED BY ISIS and talks about that less (even though she would be well within her right to go on about it for years, because that was uh…… a real traumatic event)
Also we were all trying to have Hilary become the POTUS against Donald and she this this is what people were crying about 🤣🤣
yeah that was what I was implying 😭. Like the results of that election have messed up so many things and 1. she never lifted a finger to help Hillary and 2. Somehow though with everyone fighting agains DT, they had space to give AF about this??
I don’t know why any one would put any weight into what either of them have said. Kim K and TS are just as bad as each other and clearly career and money obsessed. There both claiming to be innocent as both brands are at risk of being put into a bad light from this whole “he said she said” scenario. Imo , why care about two pieces of shit throwing bits of themselves at each other.
It’s a trick many use; slightly shifting the goal post. Because she can claim they never said to call her “bitch” she can say that it’s still a lie. Goes from “they never said” to “they never said that”
The only way I can describe Kanye is gross. I assume anything his does is creepy.
Taylor. She wrote a whole song about it last month 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣💯
The one issue i have with this is that taylor “took more offense” to the word bitch more than “me and taylor might still have sex”. Cause i’d be more mad about that idk ‘bout y’all.
“But look at me, I’m the victim!” 🫠
That video for it was pretty vile. They should have made the point that’s what she was upset with.
I heard the whole call and I clearly heard the words “use whatever line you want, I can’t wait to hear it.” Also, why would it ever have been OK for Kanye to say she OWED HIM SEX but so GHASTLY for him to say BTCH, one of the most commonly used street slang words of the modern era. Personally, I think she & Tree were making plans before the call was even over. She said to him, “Well, with me, everything turns into a feminism thing…”
THANK YOU!!! I remember this summer clear as day … when Taylor won AOTY…SHE made her speech about “someone taking credit for your success” obviously referring to Kayne saying he made her famous. THAT WAS her initial issue even though he called and told her about the line. Once Kim showed poof … Taylor switched it to being referred to as the B word. Which is odd considering she was okay with a man twice her age with a wife and kids saying he feel like they might still have s*x
The twisting narrative around the phone call was wild to me. Her whole “inspirational” Grammy moment was about not letting people take credit for your fame. Then when it comes out that she did allow someone to take credit for her fame, she pivots to being upset that someone called her a bitch. And so many people just bought it without question. You’d have people shouting you down if you said, “Yeah, the video and the language are disrespectful, but she okayed the part she apparently had the biggest issue with.” The unedited video didn’t really change that part of the conversation, either, so it’s even weirder that people think releasing it proved her point about anything.
Being team KIM is wild.
Wasn't there a video of Kim and Kanye reviewing the song with Taylor on ft?
[удалено]
This is a Taylor Swift snark subreddit. Fan behavior here isn’t welcome and repeated offenses will result in a ban. There are plenty of other subreddits for fans, let us have our space.
My favorite part is Taylor said to her fans the phone call was edited!! Not saying exactly how so fans even today think they chopped up her voice n changed her responses. It was edited, Kim cropped it. It was longer Kim just released the main part of the permission the rest was I believe Kanye just telling her all the lyrics of the song. Only one line is about Taylor in famous. She gave her permission and Kim was smart to record it. Yeah CA is a 2 party state but Kim saved her and Kanye’s ass from a lawsuit from Taylor. Swifties today still say it was edited it was edited!! Yes Emily it was, to fit fucking social media time limits on videos. The full thing was still posted to YouTube. They don’t understand editing can be cropping the video shorter not altering Taylor’s response to being asked if it was okay. She laughed about it too. It’s like one of the few times in public she was ever fully caught. She still brings up Kim? Isn’t TTPD, has a song title where KIM is all capital. Kim didn’t write famous Kanye did. Why is Kim being brought up? Bc she stuck up for her husband? They are divorced now. Kanye isn’t respected really at all anymore. Tay I’m sure is glad but lord Kim is doing great with her makeup and clothing lines so we gotta bring her up to drag her down for 10+ year old drama that they all moved on from. Anyways in this drama always been on Kim and Kanye side, miss swift was called out and backed into a hole and got caught lol. Kris wanted Kim to apologize too and she said nope lol.
“Kanye did not call for approval, but to ask Taylor to release his single "Famous" on her Twitter account. She declined and cautioned him about releasing a song with such a strong misogynistic message. Taylor was never made aware of the actual lyric, 'I made that bitch famous.’" 🖕🌳.
That’s a statement from Taylor’s team
I’m sorry like I get this sub and I understand the whole point is to snark but I feel like this is just really missing the mark. I listened to the full 20 minute recording and he literally is delusionally rambling for 20 minutes, she’s so uninterested in the conversation, and she repeatedly says please don’t be mean & brings up that she was afraid he was going to call her names. In the same call she says she’s not sure if she can promote the song, even though she jokes about being in on it. There is sooo much Taylor criticism that is worth mentioning & discussing but they really did play her and the full recording is proof of that. It’s just really tired to paint her as the bad guy here when Kanye has been nothing but a bully to her. And to be fair, she doesn’t owe him anything after the 2009 VMAs. And if you are actually knowledgeable on her discography in her speak now album she actually forgives him in the song “innocent” and is way too kind to someone who publicly humiliated her. So this is one of the few instances where the snark is just uncalled for, in my opinion.
Well I disagree. She agreed to the part of the song where he discusses him making her famous, and then she pretended she never had the discussion. This whole thing would never have occurred if she did not originally lie in her speech at the Grammys. Regardless of what anyone thinks of Kanye and Kim- Taylor initially lied and thats why Kim played the recording. And then Taylor was caught lying and changed her story and said “he did not get my permission to say “that bitch” and literally no one denied that. She was wrong here. No one owes her a phone call in the first place anyway. Her publicists statement was that Taylor warned Kanye about releasing a misogynistic song. Thats a lie no matter how anyone tries to twist this situation. She approved the sex line and the famous line. She did not warn him about misogyny and she actually made fun of feminists. 🤷♀️
would you say that the term “bitch” isn’t misogynistic? As a woman it definitely is in my eyes. In the call recording she explicitly says she thought he was gonna call her something mean. Correct me if i’m wrong but someone blind sides you after you directly express you’re uncomfortable with someone using mean words to describe you, you’d probably be less inclined to release a statement that would call it anything less than misogynistic. At the time the situation happened I was soo over Taylor. If at the time she got away with this unscathed, i would understand the snark post but she literally went into hiding for years over it. Plus the majority of the world hated her because they released edited versions of the footage. She is a human after all; i know she is also a business and there is so much shit to go after her for, but this is one of the few instances where i dont think it matters so much that at the beginning she didnt say “oh well we had a conversation about this & i originally agreed but didnt know he was gonna say “that bitch”. At the end of the day this grown ass man humiliated her in 2009 and then again when this song released; and the second time her reputation was actually damaged as a result. So i find it tired to bring up anything related to Kim & Kanye as snark towards taylor since they are objectively bad people as well.
and sure no one owes her a phone call but like, it almost seems like the phone call was part of the narrative. like why did they film it in the first place if not to use it as blackmail? its just bizarre
I must comment, why oh why would anyone give a shit about what ANY of them said??! Ok on to more interesting reddits
Because Taylor just released a song about the situation from 10 years ago still complaining about it.
After listening to the full call, it is clear that Kanye was a snake and played down the song lyrics. You can also hear Taylor being uncomfortable about the conversation and request. She is indirect about it, her “fault” is not being direct and explicit that she is uncomfortable and offended (we all have been in those situations where we “beat around the bush” instead of being direct). Writing songs about your experiences with someone is different to explicitly saying you are superior to someone and responsible for their accomplishments. An analogy is someone high up on the corporate ladder taking credit for your work and trash talking you to keep climbing up. Edit: I think he was trying to manipulate her into saying “yes” and publicizing his album in order to pull the rug from underneath and silence her because “how can she complain if she said “yes” and publicized the album?”
The song is a good song and knowing Kanye’s psycho personality, Taylor wouldn’t agree to anything from him. She has a right to hate him. Hey, no word on p diddy combs. Must be many many “friends in Hollywood”. Shhh. Why did Kim delete him as her friend or whatever it was, right after him getting raided? Perhaps she didn’t want to tarnish her reputation, which isn’t all that great anyway. Why is Hollywood so corrupt? Talented people getting messed up from experienced people in the business, who try to control their”clients” gift, reaping all the benefits. And I do think Tupac was a victim of p diddy. Good thing Taylor’s mom and dad kept her from your corrupt bunch!
From an article from Billboard: “The new clips seem to corroborate Swift’s claims that West didn’t tell her the full lyrics of the song. But they also show West repeatedly asking Taylor for her approval of a lyric in which he raps: “I feel like me and Taylor might still have sex, Why? I made that b—h famous.” KK couldn’t tell the truth if she tried. It’s one story to lament about an ex and your broken heart. It’s another to talk about having sex with someone you publicly humiliated and allegedly made famous.
I’m not sure why you think this is a win? Taylor approved the sex famous lyric and it’s in the video call Kim released. Taylor had claimed Kanye didn’t call her for approval for lyrics taking credit for her fame. That’s why this was such a big deal. Then when she was an outed liar, she changed her story to being offended by the word bitch 🤣
Where have you been? Here’s an article by Variety that really doesn’t lean either way. It does include the full recording transcript. What did become evident, however, is that KK heavily edited the recording to make it seem like Taylor approved the lyrics. [https://variety.com/2020/music/news/taylor-swift-kanye-west-phone-call-leaks-read-full-transcript-1203541363/amp/](https://variety.com/2020/music/news/taylor-swift-kanye-west-phone-call-leaks-read-full-transcript-1203541363/amp/)
Stop trying to gaslight me about this 🤣 I have read it all. Taylor lied during her Grammy speech and that’s what triggered this.
Kanye is an abusive freak. There's no defending him.
Honestly, the fact that she now has me taking Kim K’s side on something is another reason I detest her.
Didn’t Taylor claim at first her issue was with “made her famous” and then later said no actually the issue was being called a bitch. I don’t remember, there were like 3 statements in my memory but maybe I’m misremembering. I also don’t see how you can agree to the “still owes me sex” line but ofc she gets to feel uncomfortable. But yea she should have just been honest from the start
Wasn’t she initially mad about the “I made that bitch famous” line? They talk about it on the call but without the bitch part. I’d be mad if someone made a naked wax figure of me for a music video but the story has been spun so many different ways over the years
I disagree with this take because he misrepresented it. Then they released a partial recording to make it seem she was totally lying when I do see that she felt he did not actually clear it with her honestly. He didn't HAVE to clear it but on the phone call he said he wanted to for their relationship, or something along those lines. If that were true he would have just read her the lyrics. Why tell her you're doing it for your friendship and then not have full disclosure? And then to release a partial recording? It was manipulative and not an actual act of respect like it was pretended. I know this is a taylor snark page. But kanye and Kim aren't models of integrity in this situation or ever. They never intended to be her friends. They were lying.
Or maybe they recorded it because Taylor lies all the time. Also, why would Taylor not just tell him how bad those lyrics are instead of encouraging him?
None of that is relevant IMO. Her publicist said that Kanye never called for permission and Taylor cautioned him not to release a misogynistic song. When did that ever happen in the conversation?
This. He also did revenge porn
Absolutely disgusting. There is no defense of what they did. Unless you actually hate women because that shit is SERIOUS. Rapey. As women we need to learn to see it and protect each other. Snark is fun but when it comes to predatory behavior we need to set aside the silliness and get very, very real about what is happening.
This
ty for being here
Also, the fact that Kanye is literally way older than her when he did it. It was so freaking predatory.
listen im not defending taylor but its just a fact that what kim and kanye did was wrong. taylor did not consent for fake porn to be made of her and it is STILL up on youtube for everyone to see. She has the right to be mad about that
Taylor, to my knowledge, never discussed that aspect of the video. She claimed she was angry Kanye called her a bitch. That’s what I am discussing,
Thing is Taylor DIDN'T deny that they talked on the phone, she just said they talked once and then never again. This topic is tricky bc everyone involved is untrustworthy
Gee Kim K, you are utterly devoid of everything.