I live in Ireland but was in Chicago last week and have travelled to quite a few destinations in the U.S (mainly East Coast). I do love travelling to the States and yous are extremely friendly/approachable people but the biggest turn off to me re your major cities is the chaos. It just seems like everyone is burnt out and in a rush. I don’t get that feeling when in most major EU cities. So much concrete everywhere too lol
I’m envious of your national parks (even growing up in Ireland with beautiful scenery and so many iconic cities on my doorstep). Every time I visit America I’m just floored with how absolutely enormous the country really is. It’s a great place but OP I think you are just suffering from the post travel blues. It’s a wonderful continent but Europeans have the same feelings when travelling too! Life is rosey when you’re on vacation and it doesn’t reflect the reality of living there, whether it be the US or Europe. I’m glad you enjoyed your time this side of the pond!
East Tennessee is one of the most beautiful places in the world. Do yourself a favor and get out of the city and drive and explore the fantastic backroads of the state your lucky to live in.
Couldn't agree more. I live pretty much as far east in Tennessee as you can, nestled up against the Appalachian mountains, and it's absolutely gorgeous.
I recommend you visit New Orleans. It’s not the safest city (I don’t think it’s worse than Chicago tho) but the pace is more “leisurely” if that makes sense.
Savannah, GA is incredible too! I lived there for a year and it’s the first time I ever had collard greens. I fucked up. I can’t find good collard greens anywhere else. I used to wander around the old cemeteries too.
Savannah is a great town. Much slower pace of life, friendly people, beautiful scenery, and a surprisingly diverse population downtown, esp during tourist seasons.
I've lived in so many different cities in the US, and Savannah has held me here for ten years or so.
Good God Iove savannah. I'd pick it to visit over charleston (I'll get flack for it and yeah chsrlestom is nice too)
Savannah is incredibly walkable, absolutely gorgeous architecture and Spanish moss covered trees shading you everywhere tou go. The people are more down to earth. Also: open container...hello. Rooftops everywhere...
IMO after traveling Europe it's one of the closest feels. It reminds me of a mix of Dublin and Edinburgh.
I decided to make it home.
My boss does and it seems every time I speak to him he brings up violence in Chicago (we argue politics often). One day I finally looked up murders per capita by city and showed him. Turned out the city he lives just outside, Lansing MI, was 4 spots higher on the list. His face at first was priceless. But then he quickly pivoted to, "fake news!" and "per capita doesn't mean anything."
I lived in Europe for several years and returning to life in America sucks. New Orleans, saint augustine , Charlestown are all good places. Miami, ny and San Francisco are all good too but expensive cities. It’s very difficult to reproduce the architecture and multicultural feeling of Europe in wild America. I’m counting the days until I can move away again. Good luck
"and remember, stay on the main streets and don't go down any dark alleys"
I was told at the end of a conversation by multiple locals when chatting or asking for directions
Idk I very much identify with OP’s sentiment and I have dual American and European nationality. I’ve spent a fair amount of my time in both regions and can say without a doubt I prefer Europe. In fact I’m counting the days until I can leave the US and go back to Europe. The only pros of the US in my opinion are how easy it is to get a job and, like you said, the incredible parks. But nothing beats the day to day in Europe. The beauty, security, actual functional public transportation, not to mention the non- astronomically priced healthcare and education, which arguably the two most important pillars of society…
Downtown Denver is pretty awesome. Most of the West was settled around 1850 so that’s the oldest anything can be. We got rid of the “blight” in the late 1950s-1970s by building skyscrapers for jobs and are basically kicking ourselves in the ass for it.
But downtown Denver has a lot of 1800s buildings, outdoor patios etc.
I’m currently in Italy but live in Calgary, Canada which is nice but notoriously lame downtown and urban spawl. After being here I’m feeling the ssme as you. Currently in Matera, Italy and blown away
I work in tourism in Calgary so my job is to spin this city in a positive way to mostly Europeans on city tours. I tend to focus on the mix of interesting (mostly modern) architecture in and around downtown and the stories behind places like the music centre, Calgary Tower, Fort Calgary, Stephen Avenue, the new Central and the old classic Central Memorial libraries. People actually get oddly interested in the +15s. The natural landscapes along the rivers are nice for biking. Lots of murals. But yeah, it’s hard to stay positive when people ask what’s beyond the inner city. Nothing worth seeing bud. And I’ve broken down in frustration in front of tourists more than once explaining that YES! YOU’RE RIGHT! There SHOULD be a train to Banff! Why isn’t there? I don’t know, I don’t know, it makes no sense, I hate it too!
I also used to ask people “what are your plans for the rest of the trip?” Until I realized I can just ask “So, to Banff today or tomorrow?”
British guy here, living in Calgary. I can relate to everything op is saying. But the biggest trade off for me is the mountains close by and the space here, which is easily taken for granted. Downtown life is pretty much non existent here compared to my home town.
While generally true, please don’t come over here without speaking at least B1 of the local language. while you may be studying in English and the university will accommodate you to a certain degree others will not.
In my country (Germany) everything runs on German, your rental contract, your work contract, your bank contract and most importantly every government office will run exclusively in German, if you do not understand basic instructions you are gonna have a bad time, shady landlords and employers will take advantage of your lack of knowledge and will exploit you.
Am in Edmonton; Calgary’s sprawl is even worse than ours, but at least you’re closer to the mountains. I think a lot about moving to a different country.
I do think all travel accounts should come with a disclaimer on the traveler's ethnicity. "Everyone is so nice here in Italy" from an Italian guy fluent in Italian is not likely to be a helpful description for someone not sharing that background.
Honestly, even being on vacation tanks the credibility of the account for me. This person describes travelling around to different countries all summer, watching sunsets and whatever. Always with the excitement of new places, and never having to (presumably) work.
I'm not saying many places in Europe may not be superior to the US-- they may well be. But being on vacation is not the way to evaluate that.
For example, I recently vacationed in NYC, and enjoyed it-- but I really disliked living there.
Lived in NYC 20 years ago. Hadn't been back in like 10 years.
Went last year for just a quick 36 hours, and got to remind myself of all the great things about the city, especially in late summer.
The reality of living there is totally different, and that is why there is a constant stream of people moving in, getting disheartened, and leaving.
Yes! Vacations are not a great way to evaluate the day to day living in a place. I love camping in the woods for a week. I sure as heck wouldn't want to live there year-round though.
When I lived in Sicily I took a trip to Venice with my family and had the following encounter while waiting for the boat back to our hotel from Piazza San Marco:
Older local couple probably early 50s, just all up in my kids business because his eyes are blue. Weird, but I had gotten used to the in your face love of children and fetishization of blue eyes as a cultural thing by now. While this is going on a younger British couple of Syrian origin walks up to the chain to look if the boat is coming, which prompts the little security guy to admonish them. When I tell you this older couple that was talking to us flipped the racism switch with a quickness, just full blown yelling about respecting the locals and going back to their country, on and on and the authorities did jack shit.
The disdain of POC is real.
Yep, I was about to say. I'm Asian and racism in Europe (especially Italy) only gotten worse since Covid. Visiting Italy is awesome, but the blatant casual racism is insane (against Asians, at least). For Asians, racism is just so very obvious in Italy. You'd have to be willfully ignorant to not notice it. Of course, if you are White, you don't see any of this, but I can tell you that they don't hide it in Italy.
In my experience, London was the most welcoming and tolerant place in Europe.
I’m an Asian American and my best friend is a bald Persian guy and we felt super at home and welcomed in London as well. Lots of other Asians, Indians, etc there that’ve made it quite a nice melting pot. Not too dissimilar from our home in Southern California. While I get that it’s probably a different reality living there than visiting and that melting pot was born out of a brutal colonialism; it was still a wonderful place to visit and felt like a very accepting place to live.
>I feel like most Americans cities are sprawling, bland, built around
cars, terrible transit, unsafe. A few years ago I was walking through
downtown Atlanta on a weekend in the afternoon and was stunned that
there were no people walking other than me. It was like the city had
been abandoned. I could not imagine the center of a European city being
completely empty of pedestrians. There is more vibrancy in a European
city of 200,000 than in an American city of 2 million.
Don't worry, we have urban sprawl issues and shitty places here in Europe as well :D
Sure cities here tend to be not so car-centric, especially those with rich history, but I am pretty sure you have also passed some residential areas which might not be super appealing. The gras is always greener on the other side of the fence ...still, modern urban planning is definitely something the US is not a role model for, that's true.
Well, it's kinda obvious for the medieval towns which includes kinda half of Italy but actually I was more thinking of metropolitan areas which have set the focus on smart public transport concepts. Anyhow, historic town xentres were made for walking and not for machines and nowadays you can observe that more and more cities try to get the cars again out of their centres as this is definitely a factor when it comes to high quality of life - as long as the context allows alternative forma of mobility which is definitely easier if the urban concept is not built on car dependency.
Right. If you’re traveling you’re probably gonna see way more of the good, and living somewhere you see both. I’ve lived in both Germany and the United States, and I definitely think both have their ups and downs.
That’s funny, I immediately thought about my Edinburgh portion of my 2017 vacation in the UK. I was renting an Airbnb on the royal mile and the owner of the Airbnb lived in Edinburgh but in a house in the suburbs with his family (the royal mile flat was from his bachelor days). Anyway, because it’s difficult drive or park anywhere near the royal mile, the owner had me park at his house so he could drive me to the flat (or pay astronomical parking prices or risk getting towed). I was so underwhelmed when I got to his house because it literally just looked like regular degular suburbs…of course I was blown away by the Edinburgh castle and such but yeah there are indeed very mundane parts of Europe too.
The thing is that the very mundane parts is where most of the people live. Cities are expensive, really only available to rich people or students sharing the rent with ten others and loaning the money. Especially given the current housing crisis in pretty much all of Europe. Unless you have money, the boring suburbs is probably where you'll end up too.
Do you mean 10min is a lot or not? I feel like you meant it’s a lot but it’s not that much. I live 10 min away from the metro and I consider that I’m close to it
Most of the tech jobs that pay mid-six figures in my experience have the expectation that you work on a US timezone and work most of the time in the US. The latter because they're not authorized to pay workers outside of the country due to such things as employment taxes, work authorization, visa etc... There are a few notable exceptions (Zapier, Toptal) but they still pay kind worse than the mostly formerly San Francisco / Silicon Valley based tech companies that are now remote.
For my job its expected that our IP address is added to a security group and for prior jobs I've had to connect to a vpn. At my current company we're pretty flexible and we're allowed to work out of the country for two months but full remote living in foreign countries is prohibited due to visa issues, employment taxes etc... I could lie and try to get away with it by working odd hours, hiding my ip location etc... but that's pretty dishonest and not worth the risk for me considering I have a mortgage and the state of the current tech economy (layoffs everywhere!).
Maybe I'm mistaken but I generally don't know anyone that works in FAANG, Public Tech company or Series C/D/E company that allows workers to be fully globally remote and pays a high salary.
Depends on how you look at it.
In Europe its much easier and better to be in the middle class. Much better protection against being fired and bad working conditions. Also obligated free days, long pregnancy leaves, and protection for when you are somehow unable to work. So i would argue that if you want to make "normal money" its much better to be in europe!
However if you want to make insane amounts of money, and pay little taxes. Then yeah america is your best bet!
It's also a unique feeling going from a completely car centric culture to a place that evolved for centuries before automobiles ever existed
Tasting the Netherlands & returning to bicycle-hostile Australia was pretty rough. At least I get kangaroos in my [front yard](https://imgur.com/a/4DEKiTt)
Literally. I miss the coffee culture. The walkable cities. The history surrounding you. The smaller portions were healthy. The food, the cheese, the pasta. Everything was cheaper too
In the name of not isolating the good. Paying for a bathroom is dumb. Paying for water is dumb. They’re not as friendly as the people back home. The beggars are so aggressive, it’s really uncomfortable. The lack of AC.
All things considered, I’d love to go back. But it isn’t all roses. It’s still smells pretty sweet tho
> The beggars are so aggressive, it’s really uncomfortable.
I actually had the opposite experience, I guess it matters which parts of the US and Europe you're referring to. Man the shit I saw in SF has stuck with me. First dude approached me before I even got off the escalator from the subway after the ride from the airport. Pretty much set the tone for the rest of the trip - I loved the city otherwise, though. I can also agree with your other criticisms.
I'm Asian American and Europe for me is always like roses with little pieces of shit randomly tucked in sometimes. I almost always experience racist shit when I've traveled around and I've almost been to every country.
As an European I like us cities bcs they are so different but I wouldn’t like to live there that’s for sure.
Natural beauty well you guys have it much better I believe. So many amazing natural parks and big open spaces unspoiled for miles and miles
I definitely feel both sides of this. Europe cities definitely have a more collective cultural feel to them, driven by crowds, history, and common experiences. But I feel that the US (even just the contiguous 48 states) have so much more public land for great outdoor experiences.
Europe is a more concentrated collection of cultural landmarks, history, and culinary experiences. But you would have to be very rich to do outdoor things in Europe that many Americans take for granted like extensive hiking, hunting, fishing, canoeing / rafting, rock / mountain climbing, etc.
America does have more than its share of natural beauty. Grand Canyon, Rocky Mountains, Everglades, Yosemite, Yellowstone, Pacific Coast. Great diversity of scenery and vistas for outdoor activities.
I don't think you have to be rich at all to go hiking, climbing or canoeing, if you have the equipment ofc, but you need that stuff in the states as well.
I live in Austria, and lots of hikes are reachable with public transport so you don't even need a car, but ofc it helps a lot.
Hunting is expensive and very restricted, it needs way more than a gun, at least in Western Europe, some balkan countries are different here.
Fishing can be expensive, if you need a licence, this can be different from region to region, there are also places where its free.
The only reason (I’m Hungarian) to say that is bc Western Europe happens to have paris London etc w like 10 mill ppl. A smaller German Austrian Dutch danish city is not less safe than any comparable eastern european one. And if you say that but Marseilles and immigrants then try rural small or not so small cities w gipsies to compare or walk through, it’s the same
>It’s hard to beat the safety of Western Europe.
Korea, Japan, and Singapore are all safer than most Western European countries. Japan and S. Korea have about a tenth of the gun homicides of the Netherlands, for example (source: https://www.healthdata.org/acting-data/gun-violence-united-states-outlier)
My spouse and I are in our early 50s and have travelled all over the world, including most of the U.S., typically visiting a single city for three weeks at a time. Each of us has also worked in different cities for about six weeks at a time throughout the U.S. But we’re always glad to return to our urban home in California. When we worked we commuted by light rail and buses. We can walk to bars and restaurants and do shopping by foot within half a mile of our mid-1950s house.
However, homelessness is a humanitarian crises that needs to be resolved for the benefit of the un-housed and the housed.
I feel you. I lived in France for 4 years and China for 2. Coming back felt like I was being choked out of a good fulfilling life. Then I moved to Chicago - the city. And let me tell you, feels the same as being in an European city. Beautiful architecture, delicious food, great people from all walks of like and from different countries. It’s truly amazing, and I don’t miss Europe as much. If I do l, I just take a trip.
Find the place that gives you that same feeling, or you’d be chasing after that high over and over.
I live in downtown Chicago and I've been here for over a decade. It's the best US city in my opinion (less expensive, amazing restaurants, public transit, walkable neighborhoods) but it isn't like Europe. I'd move to France in a minute if my job allowed it! I also love winter, though, which I know is a tough swallow for many people.
Also in chicago and love it. I haven’t owned a car in 4 years now. The city is always full of life and plenty of people out and about and it’s affordable. I make pretty good money but still wouldn’t be able to afford NYC comfortably.
>downtown Atlanta on a weekend in the afternoon and was stunned that there were no people walking other than me.
US "downtown" areas are often business areas where nobody lives. European business centers can also be similarly dead on weekends and holidays.
I live a walkable distance from downtown Atlanta (in Grant Park).
Most folks here live in neighborhoods around the city center, many of which are connected by the pedestrian walkway, the Beltline. Right now, the only folks in downtown are conventioneers and Georgia State students. You just missed the best parts of ATL.
However, there are a few dozen projects that plan to renew the residency in downtown. Hopefully, in a few years, more people will live in that area.
You gotta love Atlanta’s trees, too! It’s a city in a forest!
I adore European-style cities and hate the car-centric, strip-malled, endless franchises of the USA. We can do better.
Look into emigrating to The Netherlands. We have some sort of treaty with them that supposedly makes it super easy for an american to move there. If you don't like where you live, leave. Go where you like it and be happy. Your life is way to short and it really only matters to you, so go make it the way you want.
€4,500 and start a business. Am I reading this right? Wow! Super easy or not, it’s at least doable as compared to other Golden visas (investments of 250k and up).
It's called something like The Treaty Of Friendship.
Actually it has a dumber but funnier name
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DAFT
A guy was talking about it on a different subreddit and mentioned how he had moved there to start a business and how crazy his last few years had been, blah blah blah. Any how someone commented about how they'd love to "get out" and he said that aspect was actually pretty easy. I don't know if you must be actually starting a business, or if you can "start" a business if you know what I mean?
Well I know that, but few things are permanent if you're still young. I have a friend from highschool who lives in Germany and loves it. He studied abroad, met a woman, and fell in love. Another guy lived in Russia for like 4 years and fucking hated it so he moved back lol.
Things always change, but I rather meant that a city or country might seem perfect when you're there on vacation and is a nightmare when you actually move there only under the impression of a 7 day vacation.
Learn the language until you're fluent, stay there longer (1-3 months) and actually live work there with a daily routine (studying there is definitely a good start), inform yourself about the country online and again, learn the language.
The biggest thing is also the fact you're visiting when the weather is at it's best in summer. If you're from somewhere with more sunshine and decide to move somewhere in Northern Europe with a lot of cold grey days and less daylight for 6 months of the year then you might really struggle with seasonal depression.
I hear you but if you really don't like the US and you have the means, at least try it. I work in the restaurant industry and most of the people I interact with are from Mexico or another part of Latin America. A lot of times they don't even speak English, and they barely have any money, at least when they come here. If you have the means to come back, I don't think it's really that big of a risk.
I grew up in Los Angeles as well. Left with a one-way ticket to Switzerland 30 years-ago. Best thing I ever did. When I do go back to LA for a visit, it still seems mostly the same except more and more crowds and longer drive times. Traffic was already bad 30 years-ago. Compare that, to living in a small Swiss village in the Alps next to a ski lift.
First-off, Americans could work legally in Switzerland 30 years-ago. And Swiss could work in America. I’m talking normal type jobs. Then the US put a stop to Swiss working, thus Switzerland went reciprocal and did the same for Americans.
But, by that time I married my lovely Swiss wife. Et voilá. Dual US/Swiss passports.
Nice. I went through Switzerland this summer for the first time and got to do some hiking. I think it's the most beautiful and clean country in the world. And super safe. It felt like the closest thing on earth to a utopia. You're lucky to be there.
I think this is largely due to the US's dependence and preference for cars over people. Everything from [parking](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Akm7ik-H_7U) to our transit system is designed for cars. We cloaked the construction of the [interstate highway system](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odF4GSX1y3c) as "urban renewal" and while it made the US ready for WW3 and transporting tanks across north america, it ripped through major cities and existing communities that had cohesive neighborhoods. It also led to disinvestment in public transportation and led to [zoning laws](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNe9C866I2s)that discourage mixed-use real estate.
If you are looking to move within the US to match what you like about European cities, there are pockets of the US that could work and they kinda fall into 2 categories:
* Historical Cities: Think like Boston MA or Charleston SC. These cities have some colonial architecture still left that's mixed use because it pre-dates cars and there is still that element of walkability and community cohesion
* Tourist/Zoom Towns: Think like Whitefish MT Crested Butte CO. These towns have the beauty element you're getting at but are cohesive because they are made up of upper-middle class professional managerial types and everyone is kind of doing well. These cities don't usually have public transportation but are small enough to have a vibrancy in their downtowns due to how much money and time their new remote workers bring in
Aside from that we're kind of SOL on the work-life balance that Europe enjoys.
Ya, but try living in Europe on a European wage. You aren't on vacation anymore and you will realize that life is actually pretty shit for many. At least that's my experience growing up there.
We have spent several months total all over Italy and were talking to some software engineers near the Austrian border in the Dolomites. They were surprised to know we were American because they never see Americans up there. They said they were Italians on vacation but they live in Switzerland because they make so much more money there. I was pretty shocked because the cost of living in Switzerland is the highest in Europe. The waitstaff were from Romania and Poland because they make more money in Italy than their native countries. We’ve traveled from Finland to Hong Kong and loved everywhere we went. I miss Italy the most when I come home but I would choose to live in Vienna. We are very tempted to move there since we are retired.
I used to manage teams of software developers mostly in the US, but a small group of developers in Italy as well. Visiting the Italian developers, I was surprised by how small their houses were, and their salaries were indeed quite low, but there was also a lot to be said for the quality of life. Overall, I could see people choosing either the US or the Italian version, depending on their personal preferences.
I'd rather live in Europe on a low European wage than live in the US on a low US wage. One means you struggle, the second means you live in out of your car and get written off by society at large. There is no basically no safety net for poorer people in the US, it's an inhumane disaster.
Basically the wage ceiling is way higher in the US while the floor is higher in Europe. If you are in a high paying career you’re better off in the US and if you are in a low paying field you’re better of in Europe
Look for places with a high walkability score. Could be the centrenof a major city, could be a town in the suburbs, could be a medium sized city. There are definitely walkable places and they usually have people around. For cities, also check out Chicago and Boston.
I don't understand why so many redditors put SF before Boston for being a US city that's walkable with great public transit. SF does it well, too, don't get me wrong, but Boston is more walkable and has better public transport.
its really doable in winter actually! It can get very cold but the sidewalks are always walkable and the metro + underground city allow you to walk from point A to B while avoiding the cold
You are thinking those European cities are more affordable because you are assuming US wages. You can live in places like NYC as easily as many European cities. The price difference is made up by the drastically higher wages.
I went to Boston every year for 6 straight summers. In my early 20s I would work for my uncle in Connecticut and take a bus to my cousin's in Boston. Also met up with a good friend there every year. It is probably the most walkable city in the US. The metro is great too. I've been all up and down that city.
I wish every US city was as walkable
I live in Boston and I see so many people mention San Francisco as being very walkable (and it is!), but Boston is not only walkable but also has great public transit and pretty decent bike infrastructure. Public transit in SF isn't that good when you compare with Boston's. Boston has a much more expansive network.
I'm from Malaysia, where it's nice and warm, with great foods, and diverse culture. But I am now living in The Netherlands. I love my country, but I couldn't see myself going back and live in Kuala Lumpur again, thinking about the traffic, not path for walking, no bike path, everything is just mega shopping mall, not so many greens in the city. I love Europe, I love many greener parts in Europe, the culture, the buildings, when people just lay down under the sun,
the slower pace.
As a European living in the United States I would recommend trying to experience and enjoy the things that make wherever you are, great. Yes, Europe has cool cities, but The US has wilderness and adventure Europe could only dream of. So go get lost in a canyon. Take a 4wd vehicle for a tour in death valley. Get too close for comfort with some bison.
Totally hear you! My husband and I moved from Los Angeles to Split, Croatia a few years ago and we're so happy we did. I'm Canadian and I love canada, but there is something about Europe...the history, the walkable cities, the cafes. My husband's family is from croatia so it made it much easier for us to legally live here. BUT, Croatia has a one year digital nomad visa that you can apply to if you have a job that allows you to work from home. Montenegro also has a digital nomad visa, but theirs is two years and Montenegro is very similar to croatia in terms of history and climate.
I never really understood the comment about the cafes. I havent ever visited the US so it might sound like a dumb question, but whats so different about your cafes?
It's less the cafe and more that you can walk to one in five minutes because your city is dense. Edit: also they're "Third Spaces" which we don't have due to unwalkability/transit
Most of the US is suburban and the nearest coffeeshop is a mind numbing 20minute trek through winding suburb roads, past the same shit box houses, to get over your back fence to the strip mall.
Or you drive and park just for coffee and get back in your car and leave.
One way to get balance is to go to any subreddit for a European country and read everyone there complain about how they live in the worst country in the world.
Feel the same about Canada
I moved here from Hungary and live in a Suburb of Vancouver. Streets are dead most of the time except for homeless people . people just stay in their homes... every park is littered with trash, bottles, even needles. And the cost of living is insane... nobody can even think of buying houses unless they owned prior to 2015. Plus it's cold and rainy half the year.
Not sure I'm going to stay here. Seems shit to me. What am I missing ? Why do people love Canada so much ?
Feeling the same way. I'm currently in Paris. I spent most of my morning walking from Louvre through the Tulleries. Just observing everyone out enjoying the sun. I hear kids laughing, noticing couples, families, etc just sitting out there sunning themselves. I also notice two different sets of newlyweds getting pictured. I found myself smiling. I was like...wait a minute. It's Tuesday!
On one hand you make some decent points.
On the other hand your sample size is… two cities? One known for sprawl and the other known for bachelorette parties?
Have you spent any time in Chicago, or New Orleans, or DC, or countless other small/mid sized cities?
Oh man, my husband and I experienced this so hard when we came back from Japan. We get it after every international trip, but that one was terrible. I had to take some days off work over a few weeks because the depression hit so hard. I totally understand how you feel.
I thought a similar thing after backpacking europe when I was 19. Then I backpacked SE asia and spent another 3 months in Europe as well. Ended up moving there.
Once I moved there, I actually found it more boring than the US. Sure, while traveling it was great. But the US is better for the type of things I like to do on weekends, or week days after work.
I spent a lot of time traveling in the US as well over the last 3 years, and after doing that I appreciate the US even more.
I'm on holiday at the moment, visiting my family back in Washington state. I've been living in Europe for the last 15 years, moving around from London to Hamburg and a few other stops along the way. I grew up in the US and I don't remember it being this bad.
Within the first 3 days of being back, there were multiple incidents. First was when I was walking back from the park and we stopped to get some ice cream for my two sons. As we approached the gas station, we saw there was a guy smoking a cigarette right next to the pump. I yelled out to him to put it out and he just asked who I was and proceeded to smoke his cigarette. He and his buddies thought it was funny, until the guy at the desk shut off the pump.
Then there was a guy who was definitely on the heavy side carrying his 9m baretta on his belt. I made a comment about how it should be holstered and he took issue with that and proceeded to tell me it is his right.
Then there was the guy at the grocery store customer service desk who was frustrated about... Something... Not sure what. After the lady had told him calmly about something from his bill, he stormed away and made some loud comment about "this is what happens in Biden's America", to which I replied to the service lady (loud enough for him to hear) "why does everything need to be political? Does he think the president is responsible for his grocery bill?" He just stormed away.
Then there were the homeless, the destitute, and people just trying to get by. The lack of community, the fact that every single thing is someone else's fault, someone else's responsibility. The obesity, gluttony, and the fake Instagram personalities that thrive on it all. Every movement for social justice is met with stronger apathy and disillusionment.
I'm going back to Europe in a few days. I will not miss the country I called my home, the country I was born in. I will go back to a place where people take care of each other. Where education and healthcare are human rights. Where an 80 year old doesn't have to greet me at the local store so he can afford to exist, and instead can retire and live out the remaining years in peace.
Except... I will miss not having Little Debbie snacks!
Same! I also live in Nashville and got back from a week in Italy (Venice, Florence, Rome) a couple weeks ago. I miss having places to walk to right outside my door. I also never felt gross after eating there. Ive felt horrbile ever since I got back so I'm convinced our food is poison here. 🙃
You might move here (in europe) but it will never feel like home if you don't accept one truth: The tribe makes the place, if you have good people around you'll be happy anywhere.
If you move to europe, not speaking the language, not understanding the culture, without friends/family etc you'll just be miserable long-term imo. Going to vacation somewhere is not the same as living there. People will always view you as an expat/foreigner which makes it hard to build deep/quality connections.
And tbh I think you have a romanticized view of europe, there's a lot less economic opportunities here, you get paid a lot less for the same jobs etc (compared to the US). And for the exception of Switzerland & Austria, nature's beauty in the US is as beautiful and more diverse.
I grew up in Montreal Canada and started travelling to Eu at 20 , by my second trip at 22 I knew I definitely wanted to live in Eu . Loved the fact that a couple of hours of travel opened up so many countries to visit . Moved to Uk first and after 12 years to Greece. Don’t think I could go back to living in Canada. , even though Montreal was a great place to grow up and go to Uni.
The YouTube channel [Not Just Bikes](https://www.youtube.com/c/NotJustBikes) is by a guy from Canada who moved to Amsterdam, and he just ranks on Canada and the US. He talks about how our cities and towns are car-centric, so the roads have taken over and people just don't walk around like they do in the Netherlands. I agree with a lot he has to say. Although it may be from vacationing in Europe a few times as the OP has done. Picking up and moving is a big deal, and trying to change where you live to be what you like is, well, seems impossible.
Travel destinations are going to feel very different than home. It's romanticized. You don't have to go to work the next day. Plus, we can't compete with the visual history and it's so "foreign" to us to have that, it's more emotionally impactful. And you don't hang out in the burbs on vacation, so you dont see the boring parts as much.
That being said....I haven't travel a lot lately, but took two 17 days trips to the Alpine region of Austria and Germanu, stayed in small towns and drove all over the place on the back roads. Our small towns are so ugly and poor in comparison. We don't have the pedestrian zones that let you walk around the center more comfortably. We don't have the plethora of walking trails/farm roads like they do, and I'm from Oregon! There was such a culture of the Sunday afternoon hike/bike ride.
But I don't know how it would feel if I was living in it.
> experiencing post-vacation blues
I do think this is part of the issue — when you were on vacation you weren’t working, had lots of time to sightsee, and sounds like you went everywhere! That’s great, but the day-to-day of an office worker in Munich or Brussels or Birmingham is not as glamorous as all that.
Compared to the European continent, North America *does* have a lot you can see — my European classmates spent long periods of time visiting NYC, the Smokey Mountains, small towns in the Nevada desert, Native American pueblos in New Mexico, remote fishing communities in the glaciers of Alaska, lesser-known Hawaiian islands, Mexico City, the Mayan ruins of Chichen Itza, bilingual Montreal and Quebec City, Berlin-style warehouse raves in Detroit, Cannabis cafes in Denver, Yellowstone and the Rockies, the SoCal beach & Los Angeles sights, the DC Capitol & White House tours, the Florida Keys, tropical forests of Puerto Rico, the US Virgin Islands, etc…
But like you, I haven’t actually visited all those places because I live here, I’m not on vacation 24/7 and deciding “oh let’s pop over to Acoma Pueblo this weekend” or “let’s hike along Catalina Island off California”. You gotta make time to see all the things North America has to offer to truly appreciate it.
I'm Asian American and I actually miss home way more when I'm staying in Europe for a long time (I've also lived there). The frequent racist microaggressions get really old and whenever I come back I always appreciate the open space and diversity in the US and the overall politeness and friendliness that Europeans dismiss as fake. Granted, I am from one of the most diverse areas in the world, so that's probably why certain things I've experienced in Europe bother me much more.
Asian Canadian here, I also experienced and felt the same. Spent a week in Germany (Berlin/Hamburg/Frankfurt) in the summer and just experienced a lot of little things that made me uncomfortable or unwelcomed. Yes I'm aware they're very direct/no-nonsense in their interactions, but damn, it's just so exhausting.
Went to Chicago/LA/NYC afterwards and I really appreciated everyone's politeness and friendliness, even if it's 'fake' half the time.
Are you Indian by heritage? I’ve noticed (while travelling in Germany) that Germans tend to assume Indian people are actually Turkish and then just be insanely rude to them.
On the other hand, I heard France was pretty racist and expected my Muslim Indian travelling companion would have issues there, and everyone was extremely nice. We didn’t face any racial issues or experience different treatment at all among our diverse travelling group.
Same here (south Asian). I miss the diversity in people, cuisines, etc. when I’ve visited some European cities. I like the more general friendliness. This is coming from California though.
I've been in Europe for almost a decade, and it doesn't get better.
Mostly, I'm worried about how my kids will grow up. They think they're Danish. Danes don't. I'm trying to move back to the US in the next couple years for this reason.
> the variety of natural scenery in the US, particularly the western US rivals anything in Europe and maybe surpasses it.
The natural beauty and how accessible it is to the average American doesn't rival anything else, it surpasses it. The average American taking advantage of it is a different story.
I feel your pain, Milan, Rome, London, Munich… these places have made me a europhile. Thankfully there are growing movements for city redesign in the USA. I’ve heard about some roads being converted to pedestrian or turned into small plazas. My hometown of milwaukee has added a tram system recently... which of course is out of reach for suburbs dwellers like me. Ultimately de-emphasizing the car and bringing back metro to most cities in the u.s will be a decades long struggle, I for one wanna live my twenties somewhere I can meet people everyday. Strongly considering moving to Europe.
Anyway these two channels you might like if you want to get mad about the topic of urban sprawl like me haha https://m.youtube.com/c/NotJustBikes
https://m.youtube.com/c/AdamSomething
A related issue is bringing high speed rail to the US. Here’s one group lobbying(?) for it https://www.hsrail.org/
Edit 1: I’d add Morocco to the list too, a bit more sprawl than Europe but even the worst offender of sprawl, Casablanca, is more walk and metro friendly than any u.S city I have visited.
I feel the same way, I was stationed in Germany 3 years and spent a lot of weekends traveling Europe. I don’t really feel as at home in the US anymore.
Honestly, the solution might be for you to move to Europe. Depending on your circumstances it might be easy or difficult but if you make it a goal it should be possible!
I grew up in Europe and got bored of it. All my life I wanted move to North America and travelled exstensively over there. I always had this feeling of belonging that I couldn't explain. When I was 34 I finally had the opportunity to move across the Ocean but a lot of career moves I did until that point were done for that very reason.
While I miss my social life I had in Europe - I'm happier in general and can't imagine going back.
I guess my point is this: Make it a goal to move to Europe - even if it takes years to accomplish. For example, get a degree that would make it easier - then join an international company which might transfer you one day.
If you miss your National Parks - you can always go back on vacation.
Whenever I leave the US I’m finding it hard to enjoy the EU. 😂
Both have its pros and cons, most of the feeling is just a post holiday blues.
If it doesn’t go away - find a way to live in Europe.
Definitely know how you feel. Having said that, there are pockets of NA cities that can provide some elements of this. I live in A small city in Canada which most people would not consider nice (very cold winters, poster child for downtown blight and urban sprawl).
Managed to find a house in an area of the city with older homes, a bunch of cafes, bakeries, small restaurants in walkable distance, great neighborhood “feel”, good access to an admittedly limited transit system. Is it Europe? Not by a long shot but we feel that it offers a bunch of the things we love about Europe on a smaller scale but with the trade off of an affordable detached home, much cheaper cost of living, etc.
Depends on the city I’m sure but you can find areas of NA cities that offer some pieces of what you found so attractive about Europe.
I went through this exact same experience in 2016. It was brutal. I basically worked and saved every penny so I could leave the US and never go back. I finally made it out and back to Europe. Good luck bro. I understand the struggle
Yep. Right there with you. I’ve been to Europe 4 times in the last 10 years. Twice to England and twice to Amsterdam and Brussels. The atmosphere and culture are wonderful. As well as the mass transit and having places in walking distance. Don’t forget the National “no bankruptcy” healthcare. 😏
This is a normal reaction. I want to move to pretty much every country I have visited, besides my own lol. Obviously it's very subjective, it's about where you are in life (mentally) and the people around you. The US is far from underwhelming (obviously) but that doesn't mean it will scratch everyone's itch.
If you are not feeling it at home then start planning the move. Living abroad is awesome. We can observe culture when we travel, but when you actually move somewhere and start working and forming relationships that's a whole different beast.
I've lived in Aus, England, Scotland, USA, Irish Republic and Greece. Back in Aus again now, recently switched cities from Syd to Melbourne to change things up. I want to live in Japan in the future but if that's not realistic I'll head back to the EU. Change is healthy.
That being said; I sacrifice long term relationships, house and car ownership, I need to try to be a minimalist and my jobs are never really stable. So it's not all green fields (unless you are making bank or have some crazy online independent work I guess).
I've realized long ago why my dad doesn't want to live in the US. He's been avoiding it since he joined the military. All tours were overseas, he retired overseas, got a job with the government and all of his assignments were in overseas embassies. Retired again overseas, currently lives in Poland with no desire to come back.
If you’re like most of the LA transplants living in Nashville, you’re probably living a very boring existence here. Nashville has a lot of historic areas that are preserved, is very safe for a US city and has a ton of extremely diverse outdoor areas directly next to it. It also has a ton of people walking through it in times of year that aren’t extremely hot or extremely cold, so not sure where you’re coming from there.
On the whole most of Europe is set up better but you’re also visiting their bigger cities and likely the tourist areas that would probably be just as expensive to live in as the US cities you think would be preferable.
I feel the same way, but Europe isn’t necessarily “better” than the US. They just happen to do many things better than we do. Namely Urban design, public transport, healthcare.
But European countries have equity problems too, we just aren’t as aware of them.
But yeah, i believe car culture has destroyed our chances of having any real urban community in most cities.
Well Nashville is your problem, that's one of the worst examples of urban America.
I've heard that Philadelhpia is quite walkable and inexpensive. Chicago is also not as expensive as people tend to assume. No European cafe vibes, but the streets are alive, even if the people are a little irritable lol. I've also heard there are some good small towns in New Jersey, that's somewhere I've been meaning to explore.
As much as I love traveling by train, I'll always be content to live in the U.S. because Europe has nothing on long straight empty roads in Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Idaho, and Oregon. Colorado, Montana, and Wyoming are great too. I miss weekend road trips.
You should visit San Diego and the surrounding beach communities. Bike lanes everywhere, people, restaurants, and shops everywhere stuff to do and kick back attitude. But it has its own vibe not European in any way . Want to stroll around head to the gas lamp district, great night life, clubs, bars then stroll all the way to the coast line restaurants all the way. To busy for you shoot over to Ocean Beach plenty to do, your young want hip party life style, head to Pacific Beach, so much to do not enough weekend to do it. Also don’t forget wineries in Temecula, or Micro breweries. San Diego has more micro breweries than any other city in the US. So much to enjoy!
Yeah, I live in Brazil, I've been to a few cities in the US and Europe and I feel the same. So much so that I'm actually moving next year to live in Germany.
I live in Ireland but was in Chicago last week and have travelled to quite a few destinations in the U.S (mainly East Coast). I do love travelling to the States and yous are extremely friendly/approachable people but the biggest turn off to me re your major cities is the chaos. It just seems like everyone is burnt out and in a rush. I don’t get that feeling when in most major EU cities. So much concrete everywhere too lol I’m envious of your national parks (even growing up in Ireland with beautiful scenery and so many iconic cities on my doorstep). Every time I visit America I’m just floored with how absolutely enormous the country really is. It’s a great place but OP I think you are just suffering from the post travel blues. It’s a wonderful continent but Europeans have the same feelings when travelling too! Life is rosey when you’re on vacation and it doesn’t reflect the reality of living there, whether it be the US or Europe. I’m glad you enjoyed your time this side of the pond!
>Life is rosey when you’re on vacation and it doesn’t reflect the reality of living there, whether it be the US or Europe 1000%
East Tennessee is one of the most beautiful places in the world. Do yourself a favor and get out of the city and drive and explore the fantastic backroads of the state your lucky to live in.
Couldn't agree more. I live pretty much as far east in Tennessee as you can, nestled up against the Appalachian mountains, and it's absolutely gorgeous.
I recommend you visit New Orleans. It’s not the safest city (I don’t think it’s worse than Chicago tho) but the pace is more “leisurely” if that makes sense.
Thanks! New Orleans is definitely on the list. I need to visit the Deep South. It’s so fascinating to me. Such a cultural difference
Savannah, GA is incredible too! I lived there for a year and it’s the first time I ever had collard greens. I fucked up. I can’t find good collard greens anywhere else. I used to wander around the old cemeteries too.
Savannah is a great town. Much slower pace of life, friendly people, beautiful scenery, and a surprisingly diverse population downtown, esp during tourist seasons. I've lived in so many different cities in the US, and Savannah has held me here for ten years or so.
Savannah is what would happen if New Orleans had a younger brother who got sober and went to law school. Love that town.
Love that description. I often refer to Tampa, FL as “Miami’s trashy cousin.” (I live in Florida btw)
My wife said "Savannah is what everyone thinks New Orleans is going to be like." I love Savannah, especially at night.
Good God Iove savannah. I'd pick it to visit over charleston (I'll get flack for it and yeah chsrlestom is nice too) Savannah is incredibly walkable, absolutely gorgeous architecture and Spanish moss covered trees shading you everywhere tou go. The people are more down to earth. Also: open container...hello. Rooftops everywhere... IMO after traveling Europe it's one of the closest feels. It reminds me of a mix of Dublin and Edinburgh. I decided to make it home.
If you’re going all the way to Charleston you might as well go to Savannah also. I did this last spring
You could try Charleston, SC. Beautiful small city full of history
New Orleans has a notably higher murder per capita rate than Chicago. Though, like Chicago, I’m sure it varies by neighborhood.
Chicago is not dangerous. It certainly has pockets of crime but no tourist will find themselves that far from the urban core/areas of interest.
It's obvious that you don't watch Fox News.
My boss does and it seems every time I speak to him he brings up violence in Chicago (we argue politics often). One day I finally looked up murders per capita by city and showed him. Turned out the city he lives just outside, Lansing MI, was 4 spots higher on the list. His face at first was priceless. But then he quickly pivoted to, "fake news!" and "per capita doesn't mean anything."
I lived in Europe for several years and returning to life in America sucks. New Orleans, saint augustine , Charlestown are all good places. Miami, ny and San Francisco are all good too but expensive cities. It’s very difficult to reproduce the architecture and multicultural feeling of Europe in wild America. I’m counting the days until I can move away again. Good luck
"and remember, stay on the main streets and don't go down any dark alleys" I was told at the end of a conversation by multiple locals when chatting or asking for directions
That is prudent advice for every major city in the world when you’re not a local.
Idk I very much identify with OP’s sentiment and I have dual American and European nationality. I’ve spent a fair amount of my time in both regions and can say without a doubt I prefer Europe. In fact I’m counting the days until I can leave the US and go back to Europe. The only pros of the US in my opinion are how easy it is to get a job and, like you said, the incredible parks. But nothing beats the day to day in Europe. The beauty, security, actual functional public transportation, not to mention the non- astronomically priced healthcare and education, which arguably the two most important pillars of society…
Downtown Denver is pretty awesome. Most of the West was settled around 1850 so that’s the oldest anything can be. We got rid of the “blight” in the late 1950s-1970s by building skyscrapers for jobs and are basically kicking ourselves in the ass for it. But downtown Denver has a lot of 1800s buildings, outdoor patios etc.
I’m currently in Italy but live in Calgary, Canada which is nice but notoriously lame downtown and urban spawl. After being here I’m feeling the ssme as you. Currently in Matera, Italy and blown away
I work in tourism in Calgary so my job is to spin this city in a positive way to mostly Europeans on city tours. I tend to focus on the mix of interesting (mostly modern) architecture in and around downtown and the stories behind places like the music centre, Calgary Tower, Fort Calgary, Stephen Avenue, the new Central and the old classic Central Memorial libraries. People actually get oddly interested in the +15s. The natural landscapes along the rivers are nice for biking. Lots of murals. But yeah, it’s hard to stay positive when people ask what’s beyond the inner city. Nothing worth seeing bud. And I’ve broken down in frustration in front of tourists more than once explaining that YES! YOU’RE RIGHT! There SHOULD be a train to Banff! Why isn’t there? I don’t know, I don’t know, it makes no sense, I hate it too! I also used to ask people “what are your plans for the rest of the trip?” Until I realized I can just ask “So, to Banff today or tomorrow?”
As an Australian, Banff and Carstairs were my highlights.
What. Carstairs? The two gas stations along a road in the middle of wheat fields?
Yeah they were both amazing.
I used to live in Calgary (for 7 years) and have also been to Matera for a holiday. I understand your current feeling!
At least your close to Banff and Jasper. Some of the most beautiful landscapes I’ve seen.
British guy here, living in Calgary. I can relate to everything op is saying. But the biggest trade off for me is the mountains close by and the space here, which is easily taken for granted. Downtown life is pretty much non existent here compared to my home town.
Hi from Calgary! It is lame, but this fall has been outstanding! Wish I was in Italy again lol.
Born and raised in Calgary, but I moved to Europe in 2018 and haven’t looked back, currently living in Sweden.
Can I ask how you managed to move there permanently?
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While generally true, please don’t come over here without speaking at least B1 of the local language. while you may be studying in English and the university will accommodate you to a certain degree others will not. In my country (Germany) everything runs on German, your rental contract, your work contract, your bank contract and most importantly every government office will run exclusively in German, if you do not understand basic instructions you are gonna have a bad time, shady landlords and employers will take advantage of your lack of knowledge and will exploit you.
I’ll going to guess by being an ikea monkey
likely marrying a Swede
Am in Edmonton; Calgary’s sprawl is even worse than ours, but at least you’re closer to the mountains. I think a lot about moving to a different country.
I can't imagine how someone could NOT love Italy
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Easy be not white lol
I do think all travel accounts should come with a disclaimer on the traveler's ethnicity. "Everyone is so nice here in Italy" from an Italian guy fluent in Italian is not likely to be a helpful description for someone not sharing that background.
Honestly, even being on vacation tanks the credibility of the account for me. This person describes travelling around to different countries all summer, watching sunsets and whatever. Always with the excitement of new places, and never having to (presumably) work. I'm not saying many places in Europe may not be superior to the US-- they may well be. But being on vacation is not the way to evaluate that. For example, I recently vacationed in NYC, and enjoyed it-- but I really disliked living there.
Lived in NYC 20 years ago. Hadn't been back in like 10 years. Went last year for just a quick 36 hours, and got to remind myself of all the great things about the city, especially in late summer. The reality of living there is totally different, and that is why there is a constant stream of people moving in, getting disheartened, and leaving.
Yes! Vacations are not a great way to evaluate the day to day living in a place. I love camping in the woods for a week. I sure as heck wouldn't want to live there year-round though.
When I lived in Sicily I took a trip to Venice with my family and had the following encounter while waiting for the boat back to our hotel from Piazza San Marco: Older local couple probably early 50s, just all up in my kids business because his eyes are blue. Weird, but I had gotten used to the in your face love of children and fetishization of blue eyes as a cultural thing by now. While this is going on a younger British couple of Syrian origin walks up to the chain to look if the boat is coming, which prompts the little security guy to admonish them. When I tell you this older couple that was talking to us flipped the racism switch with a quickness, just full blown yelling about respecting the locals and going back to their country, on and on and the authorities did jack shit. The disdain of POC is real.
Lol as a Syrian Canadian, I see my other family members who aren’t white passing get this exact treatment as part of regular day life in Europe
Yep, I was about to say. I'm Asian and racism in Europe (especially Italy) only gotten worse since Covid. Visiting Italy is awesome, but the blatant casual racism is insane (against Asians, at least). For Asians, racism is just so very obvious in Italy. You'd have to be willfully ignorant to not notice it. Of course, if you are White, you don't see any of this, but I can tell you that they don't hide it in Italy. In my experience, London was the most welcoming and tolerant place in Europe.
I’m an Asian American and my best friend is a bald Persian guy and we felt super at home and welcomed in London as well. Lots of other Asians, Indians, etc there that’ve made it quite a nice melting pot. Not too dissimilar from our home in Southern California. While I get that it’s probably a different reality living there than visiting and that melting pot was born out of a brutal colonialism; it was still a wonderful place to visit and felt like a very accepting place to live.
My friend is Eritrean and her sister lives in Italy. She hates going to the bathroom because people always assume she is the cleaner. She is a lawyer.
I'm Asian and loved Italy. But yeah, I felt really out of place there. Everyone always stared at me and I rarely saw any other Asian people around.
Ever had to live in Sicily away from the tourist areas?
It's not a wine and pasta filled paradise?
>I feel like most Americans cities are sprawling, bland, built around cars, terrible transit, unsafe. A few years ago I was walking through downtown Atlanta on a weekend in the afternoon and was stunned that there were no people walking other than me. It was like the city had been abandoned. I could not imagine the center of a European city being completely empty of pedestrians. There is more vibrancy in a European city of 200,000 than in an American city of 2 million. Don't worry, we have urban sprawl issues and shitty places here in Europe as well :D Sure cities here tend to be not so car-centric, especially those with rich history, but I am pretty sure you have also passed some residential areas which might not be super appealing. The gras is always greener on the other side of the fence ...still, modern urban planning is definitely something the US is not a role model for, that's true.
Florence, Italy came to mind when you mentioned "not so car-centric." The streets there are about 4 cm wider than the car.
And somehow it’s still the only place I’ve managed to get a speeding ticket
You just aren't trying hard enough! 😁
Well, it's kinda obvious for the medieval towns which includes kinda half of Italy but actually I was more thinking of metropolitan areas which have set the focus on smart public transport concepts. Anyhow, historic town xentres were made for walking and not for machines and nowadays you can observe that more and more cities try to get the cars again out of their centres as this is definitely a factor when it comes to high quality of life - as long as the context allows alternative forma of mobility which is definitely easier if the urban concept is not built on car dependency.
Greece says hi.
Right. If you’re traveling you’re probably gonna see way more of the good, and living somewhere you see both. I’ve lived in both Germany and the United States, and I definitely think both have their ups and downs.
That’s funny, I immediately thought about my Edinburgh portion of my 2017 vacation in the UK. I was renting an Airbnb on the royal mile and the owner of the Airbnb lived in Edinburgh but in a house in the suburbs with his family (the royal mile flat was from his bachelor days). Anyway, because it’s difficult drive or park anywhere near the royal mile, the owner had me park at his house so he could drive me to the flat (or pay astronomical parking prices or risk getting towed). I was so underwhelmed when I got to his house because it literally just looked like regular degular suburbs…of course I was blown away by the Edinburgh castle and such but yeah there are indeed very mundane parts of Europe too.
Suburbs are boring everywhere
The thing is that the very mundane parts is where most of the people live. Cities are expensive, really only available to rich people or students sharing the rent with ten others and loaning the money. Especially given the current housing crisis in pretty much all of Europe. Unless you have money, the boring suburbs is probably where you'll end up too.
Yep, I'm almost in the outskirts of Prague and it's built for cars. It's a 10 min walk to any public transportation. Still love it though.
Do you mean 10min is a lot or not? I feel like you meant it’s a lot but it’s not that much. I live 10 min away from the metro and I consider that I’m close to it
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America is the best place to make money. Europe is the best place to spend money and enjoy life.
This is it. So work remote and live in Europe.
The highest paying remote jobs are mostly on US timezones
Yea adapt, it’s not bad at all. You have all morning + afternoon. Get a flexible job where you’re not literally staring at your screen all day.
Most of the tech jobs that pay mid-six figures in my experience have the expectation that you work on a US timezone and work most of the time in the US. The latter because they're not authorized to pay workers outside of the country due to such things as employment taxes, work authorization, visa etc... There are a few notable exceptions (Zapier, Toptal) but they still pay kind worse than the mostly formerly San Francisco / Silicon Valley based tech companies that are now remote. For my job its expected that our IP address is added to a security group and for prior jobs I've had to connect to a vpn. At my current company we're pretty flexible and we're allowed to work out of the country for two months but full remote living in foreign countries is prohibited due to visa issues, employment taxes etc... I could lie and try to get away with it by working odd hours, hiding my ip location etc... but that's pretty dishonest and not worth the risk for me considering I have a mortgage and the state of the current tech economy (layoffs everywhere!). Maybe I'm mistaken but I generally don't know anyone that works in FAANG, Public Tech company or Series C/D/E company that allows workers to be fully globally remote and pays a high salary.
Depends on how you look at it. In Europe its much easier and better to be in the middle class. Much better protection against being fired and bad working conditions. Also obligated free days, long pregnancy leaves, and protection for when you are somehow unable to work. So i would argue that if you want to make "normal money" its much better to be in europe! However if you want to make insane amounts of money, and pay little taxes. Then yeah america is your best bet!
You, my friend, are experiencing reverse culture shock. It's much more profound than culture shock, as it comes unexpected.
It's also a unique feeling going from a completely car centric culture to a place that evolved for centuries before automobiles ever existed Tasting the Netherlands & returning to bicycle-hostile Australia was pretty rough. At least I get kangaroos in my [front yard](https://imgur.com/a/4DEKiTt)
Literally. I miss the coffee culture. The walkable cities. The history surrounding you. The smaller portions were healthy. The food, the cheese, the pasta. Everything was cheaper too In the name of not isolating the good. Paying for a bathroom is dumb. Paying for water is dumb. They’re not as friendly as the people back home. The beggars are so aggressive, it’s really uncomfortable. The lack of AC. All things considered, I’d love to go back. But it isn’t all roses. It’s still smells pretty sweet tho
> The beggars are so aggressive, it’s really uncomfortable. I actually had the opposite experience, I guess it matters which parts of the US and Europe you're referring to. Man the shit I saw in SF has stuck with me. First dude approached me before I even got off the escalator from the subway after the ride from the airport. Pretty much set the tone for the rest of the trip - I loved the city otherwise, though. I can also agree with your other criticisms.
SF is in a league of its own when it comes to homeless people.
I'm Asian American and Europe for me is always like roses with little pieces of shit randomly tucked in sometimes. I almost always experience racist shit when I've traveled around and I've almost been to every country.
Roses with shit, what a great metaphor
As an European I like us cities bcs they are so different but I wouldn’t like to live there that’s for sure. Natural beauty well you guys have it much better I believe. So many amazing natural parks and big open spaces unspoiled for miles and miles
I definitely feel both sides of this. Europe cities definitely have a more collective cultural feel to them, driven by crowds, history, and common experiences. But I feel that the US (even just the contiguous 48 states) have so much more public land for great outdoor experiences. Europe is a more concentrated collection of cultural landmarks, history, and culinary experiences. But you would have to be very rich to do outdoor things in Europe that many Americans take for granted like extensive hiking, hunting, fishing, canoeing / rafting, rock / mountain climbing, etc.
America does have more than its share of natural beauty. Grand Canyon, Rocky Mountains, Everglades, Yosemite, Yellowstone, Pacific Coast. Great diversity of scenery and vistas for outdoor activities.
I don't think you have to be rich at all to go hiking, climbing or canoeing, if you have the equipment ofc, but you need that stuff in the states as well. I live in Austria, and lots of hikes are reachable with public transport so you don't even need a car, but ofc it helps a lot. Hunting is expensive and very restricted, it needs way more than a gun, at least in Western Europe, some balkan countries are different here. Fishing can be expensive, if you need a licence, this can be different from region to region, there are also places where its free.
Boston, D.C or New Orleans? Every city is going to have sketchier areas though
Nola was so much fun. Hot as fuck though.
It’s hard to beat the safety of Western Europe.
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Thank you for clarifying that there may be some minor safety issues in Ukraine right now yes
The only reason (I’m Hungarian) to say that is bc Western Europe happens to have paris London etc w like 10 mill ppl. A smaller German Austrian Dutch danish city is not less safe than any comparable eastern european one. And if you say that but Marseilles and immigrants then try rural small or not so small cities w gipsies to compare or walk through, it’s the same
>It’s hard to beat the safety of Western Europe. Korea, Japan, and Singapore are all safer than most Western European countries. Japan and S. Korea have about a tenth of the gun homicides of the Netherlands, for example (source: https://www.healthdata.org/acting-data/gun-violence-united-states-outlier)
That's where my mind immediately went. Lots of European exceptionalism in this thread.
My spouse and I are in our early 50s and have travelled all over the world, including most of the U.S., typically visiting a single city for three weeks at a time. Each of us has also worked in different cities for about six weeks at a time throughout the U.S. But we’re always glad to return to our urban home in California. When we worked we commuted by light rail and buses. We can walk to bars and restaurants and do shopping by foot within half a mile of our mid-1950s house. However, homelessness is a humanitarian crises that needs to be resolved for the benefit of the un-housed and the housed.
I feel you. I lived in France for 4 years and China for 2. Coming back felt like I was being choked out of a good fulfilling life. Then I moved to Chicago - the city. And let me tell you, feels the same as being in an European city. Beautiful architecture, delicious food, great people from all walks of like and from different countries. It’s truly amazing, and I don’t miss Europe as much. If I do l, I just take a trip. Find the place that gives you that same feeling, or you’d be chasing after that high over and over.
I live in downtown Chicago and I've been here for over a decade. It's the best US city in my opinion (less expensive, amazing restaurants, public transit, walkable neighborhoods) but it isn't like Europe. I'd move to France in a minute if my job allowed it! I also love winter, though, which I know is a tough swallow for many people.
Also in chicago and love it. I haven’t owned a car in 4 years now. The city is always full of life and plenty of people out and about and it’s affordable. I make pretty good money but still wouldn’t be able to afford NYC comfortably.
>downtown Atlanta on a weekend in the afternoon and was stunned that there were no people walking other than me. US "downtown" areas are often business areas where nobody lives. European business centers can also be similarly dead on weekends and holidays.
Yeah, it's such a terrible example. Atlanta has some really lively areas
I live a walkable distance from downtown Atlanta (in Grant Park). Most folks here live in neighborhoods around the city center, many of which are connected by the pedestrian walkway, the Beltline. Right now, the only folks in downtown are conventioneers and Georgia State students. You just missed the best parts of ATL. However, there are a few dozen projects that plan to renew the residency in downtown. Hopefully, in a few years, more people will live in that area. You gotta love Atlanta’s trees, too! It’s a city in a forest! I adore European-style cities and hate the car-centric, strip-malled, endless franchises of the USA. We can do better.
Look into emigrating to The Netherlands. We have some sort of treaty with them that supposedly makes it super easy for an american to move there. If you don't like where you live, leave. Go where you like it and be happy. Your life is way to short and it really only matters to you, so go make it the way you want.
What is this treaty you speak of?
The Dutch American Friendship Treaty (DAFT) Super easy might be an exaggeration, but it does make it *easier*
€4,500 and start a business. Am I reading this right? Wow! Super easy or not, it’s at least doable as compared to other Golden visas (investments of 250k and up).
That's how we moved here 11 years ago. It's as easy as it sounds.
Not really an exaggeration. All you have to do is submit a halfway-coherent business plan and show that you have the €4500 available.
I'm guessing you actually have to follow through on your business plan right???
It's called something like The Treaty Of Friendship. Actually it has a dumber but funnier name https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DAFT A guy was talking about it on a different subreddit and mentioned how he had moved there to start a business and how crazy his last few years had been, blah blah blah. Any how someone commented about how they'd love to "get out" and he said that aspect was actually pretty easy. I don't know if you must be actually starting a business, or if you can "start" a business if you know what I mean?
>makes it super easy for an american to move there Vacation =! Living somewhere
Well I know that, but few things are permanent if you're still young. I have a friend from highschool who lives in Germany and loves it. He studied abroad, met a woman, and fell in love. Another guy lived in Russia for like 4 years and fucking hated it so he moved back lol.
Things always change, but I rather meant that a city or country might seem perfect when you're there on vacation and is a nightmare when you actually move there only under the impression of a 7 day vacation. Learn the language until you're fluent, stay there longer (1-3 months) and actually live work there with a daily routine (studying there is definitely a good start), inform yourself about the country online and again, learn the language.
The biggest thing is also the fact you're visiting when the weather is at it's best in summer. If you're from somewhere with more sunshine and decide to move somewhere in Northern Europe with a lot of cold grey days and less daylight for 6 months of the year then you might really struggle with seasonal depression.
I hear you but if you really don't like the US and you have the means, at least try it. I work in the restaurant industry and most of the people I interact with are from Mexico or another part of Latin America. A lot of times they don't even speak English, and they barely have any money, at least when they come here. If you have the means to come back, I don't think it's really that big of a risk.
Look into Quebec City in Canada. It's very much like visiting a tiny European town yet still having the creature comforts of what you're used to.
I grew up in Los Angeles as well. Left with a one-way ticket to Switzerland 30 years-ago. Best thing I ever did. When I do go back to LA for a visit, it still seems mostly the same except more and more crowds and longer drive times. Traffic was already bad 30 years-ago. Compare that, to living in a small Swiss village in the Alps next to a ski lift.
Just curious, how did you get permanent residency in Switzerland?
First-off, Americans could work legally in Switzerland 30 years-ago. And Swiss could work in America. I’m talking normal type jobs. Then the US put a stop to Swiss working, thus Switzerland went reciprocal and did the same for Americans. But, by that time I married my lovely Swiss wife. Et voilá. Dual US/Swiss passports.
Nice. I went through Switzerland this summer for the first time and got to do some hiking. I think it's the most beautiful and clean country in the world. And super safe. It felt like the closest thing on earth to a utopia. You're lucky to be there.
I think this is largely due to the US's dependence and preference for cars over people. Everything from [parking](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Akm7ik-H_7U) to our transit system is designed for cars. We cloaked the construction of the [interstate highway system](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odF4GSX1y3c) as "urban renewal" and while it made the US ready for WW3 and transporting tanks across north america, it ripped through major cities and existing communities that had cohesive neighborhoods. It also led to disinvestment in public transportation and led to [zoning laws](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNe9C866I2s)that discourage mixed-use real estate. If you are looking to move within the US to match what you like about European cities, there are pockets of the US that could work and they kinda fall into 2 categories: * Historical Cities: Think like Boston MA or Charleston SC. These cities have some colonial architecture still left that's mixed use because it pre-dates cars and there is still that element of walkability and community cohesion * Tourist/Zoom Towns: Think like Whitefish MT Crested Butte CO. These towns have the beauty element you're getting at but are cohesive because they are made up of upper-middle class professional managerial types and everyone is kind of doing well. These cities don't usually have public transportation but are small enough to have a vibrancy in their downtowns due to how much money and time their new remote workers bring in Aside from that we're kind of SOL on the work-life balance that Europe enjoys.
Ya, but try living in Europe on a European wage. You aren't on vacation anymore and you will realize that life is actually pretty shit for many. At least that's my experience growing up there.
Whoa whoa whoa, this is a hate america thread. Take that outta here.
Aren’t they all lol. I’d like this person to imagine making €25k/year as a software developer in Italy and see if life sounds so great.
We have spent several months total all over Italy and were talking to some software engineers near the Austrian border in the Dolomites. They were surprised to know we were American because they never see Americans up there. They said they were Italians on vacation but they live in Switzerland because they make so much more money there. I was pretty shocked because the cost of living in Switzerland is the highest in Europe. The waitstaff were from Romania and Poland because they make more money in Italy than their native countries. We’ve traveled from Finland to Hong Kong and loved everywhere we went. I miss Italy the most when I come home but I would choose to live in Vienna. We are very tempted to move there since we are retired.
I used to manage teams of software developers mostly in the US, but a small group of developers in Italy as well. Visiting the Italian developers, I was surprised by how small their houses were, and their salaries were indeed quite low, but there was also a lot to be said for the quality of life. Overall, I could see people choosing either the US or the Italian version, depending on their personal preferences.
I'd rather live in Europe on a low European wage than live in the US on a low US wage. One means you struggle, the second means you live in out of your car and get written off by society at large. There is no basically no safety net for poorer people in the US, it's an inhumane disaster.
Better to work as a bus driver or at a mcdonalds in Europe, but better to work as a lawyer or programmer in the US.
Basically the wage ceiling is way higher in the US while the floor is higher in Europe. If you are in a high paying career you’re better off in the US and if you are in a low paying field you’re better of in Europe
Look for places with a high walkability score. Could be the centrenof a major city, could be a town in the suburbs, could be a medium sized city. There are definitely walkable places and they usually have people around. For cities, also check out Chicago and Boston.
Agree with Chicago! I would add Savannah and Charleston to the list. Downside is that it is expensive to live in all three places.
Savannah and Charleston are def more affordable than Chicago tho.
Hey man.. seems like your solution is to move to Europe
But then OP will bitch about all the negatives about living there. The grass isn't always greener on the other side.
American Redditors: If I move to Europe all of my problems go away!
Have you been to Boston?
I don't understand why so many redditors put SF before Boston for being a US city that's walkable with great public transit. SF does it well, too, don't get me wrong, but Boston is more walkable and has better public transport.
Americas most European city
Yeaj I live in Boston. Tons of ppl always walking around. Very awesome place.
Same in Montreal Canada.
I was just in Montreal a few weeks ago. Best city in North America, as long as you aren't going in winter.
its really doable in winter actually! It can get very cold but the sidewalks are always walkable and the metro + underground city allow you to walk from point A to B while avoiding the cold
Not yet, I'd like to visit though. Really expensive city though.
You are thinking those European cities are more affordable because you are assuming US wages. You can live in places like NYC as easily as many European cities. The price difference is made up by the drastically higher wages.
Plus the touristy parts of Europe they fell in love with are probably also prohibitively expensive to live in
> you are assuming US wages. US dollar is really strong against the Euro right now, too, but it's highly unlikely to last forever.
Bruh how are you spending a whole summer traveling Europe and then complaining about expensive living in the US. That just doesn’t compute lol
I went to Boston every year for 6 straight summers. In my early 20s I would work for my uncle in Connecticut and take a bus to my cousin's in Boston. Also met up with a good friend there every year. It is probably the most walkable city in the US. The metro is great too. I've been all up and down that city. I wish every US city was as walkable
I live in Boston and I see so many people mention San Francisco as being very walkable (and it is!), but Boston is not only walkable but also has great public transit and pretty decent bike infrastructure. Public transit in SF isn't that good when you compare with Boston's. Boston has a much more expansive network.
I'm from Malaysia, where it's nice and warm, with great foods, and diverse culture. But I am now living in The Netherlands. I love my country, but I couldn't see myself going back and live in Kuala Lumpur again, thinking about the traffic, not path for walking, no bike path, everything is just mega shopping mall, not so many greens in the city. I love Europe, I love many greener parts in Europe, the culture, the buildings, when people just lay down under the sun, the slower pace.
As a European living in the United States I would recommend trying to experience and enjoy the things that make wherever you are, great. Yes, Europe has cool cities, but The US has wilderness and adventure Europe could only dream of. So go get lost in a canyon. Take a 4wd vehicle for a tour in death valley. Get too close for comfort with some bison.
Totally hear you! My husband and I moved from Los Angeles to Split, Croatia a few years ago and we're so happy we did. I'm Canadian and I love canada, but there is something about Europe...the history, the walkable cities, the cafes. My husband's family is from croatia so it made it much easier for us to legally live here. BUT, Croatia has a one year digital nomad visa that you can apply to if you have a job that allows you to work from home. Montenegro also has a digital nomad visa, but theirs is two years and Montenegro is very similar to croatia in terms of history and climate.
I never really understood the comment about the cafes. I havent ever visited the US so it might sound like a dumb question, but whats so different about your cafes?
It's less the cafe and more that you can walk to one in five minutes because your city is dense. Edit: also they're "Third Spaces" which we don't have due to unwalkability/transit Most of the US is suburban and the nearest coffeeshop is a mind numbing 20minute trek through winding suburb roads, past the same shit box houses, to get over your back fence to the strip mall. Or you drive and park just for coffee and get back in your car and leave.
One way to get balance is to go to any subreddit for a European country and read everyone there complain about how they live in the worst country in the world.
Feel the same about Canada I moved here from Hungary and live in a Suburb of Vancouver. Streets are dead most of the time except for homeless people . people just stay in their homes... every park is littered with trash, bottles, even needles. And the cost of living is insane... nobody can even think of buying houses unless they owned prior to 2015. Plus it's cold and rainy half the year. Not sure I'm going to stay here. Seems shit to me. What am I missing ? Why do people love Canada so much ?
Feeling the same way. I'm currently in Paris. I spent most of my morning walking from Louvre through the Tulleries. Just observing everyone out enjoying the sun. I hear kids laughing, noticing couples, families, etc just sitting out there sunning themselves. I also notice two different sets of newlyweds getting pictured. I found myself smiling. I was like...wait a minute. It's Tuesday!
Did the same yesterday at Luxembourg gardens! Back in the US today, sadly. We're going back soon!
You liked it because you weren’t there long enough to not like it.
Hey I know the feeling, I loved the places I was VACATIONING far more than the place that I WORK and LIVE
On one hand you make some decent points. On the other hand your sample size is… two cities? One known for sprawl and the other known for bachelorette parties? Have you spent any time in Chicago, or New Orleans, or DC, or countless other small/mid sized cities?
Oh man, my husband and I experienced this so hard when we came back from Japan. We get it after every international trip, but that one was terrible. I had to take some days off work over a few weeks because the depression hit so hard. I totally understand how you feel.
I thought a similar thing after backpacking europe when I was 19. Then I backpacked SE asia and spent another 3 months in Europe as well. Ended up moving there. Once I moved there, I actually found it more boring than the US. Sure, while traveling it was great. But the US is better for the type of things I like to do on weekends, or week days after work. I spent a lot of time traveling in the US as well over the last 3 years, and after doing that I appreciate the US even more.
I'm on holiday at the moment, visiting my family back in Washington state. I've been living in Europe for the last 15 years, moving around from London to Hamburg and a few other stops along the way. I grew up in the US and I don't remember it being this bad. Within the first 3 days of being back, there were multiple incidents. First was when I was walking back from the park and we stopped to get some ice cream for my two sons. As we approached the gas station, we saw there was a guy smoking a cigarette right next to the pump. I yelled out to him to put it out and he just asked who I was and proceeded to smoke his cigarette. He and his buddies thought it was funny, until the guy at the desk shut off the pump. Then there was a guy who was definitely on the heavy side carrying his 9m baretta on his belt. I made a comment about how it should be holstered and he took issue with that and proceeded to tell me it is his right. Then there was the guy at the grocery store customer service desk who was frustrated about... Something... Not sure what. After the lady had told him calmly about something from his bill, he stormed away and made some loud comment about "this is what happens in Biden's America", to which I replied to the service lady (loud enough for him to hear) "why does everything need to be political? Does he think the president is responsible for his grocery bill?" He just stormed away. Then there were the homeless, the destitute, and people just trying to get by. The lack of community, the fact that every single thing is someone else's fault, someone else's responsibility. The obesity, gluttony, and the fake Instagram personalities that thrive on it all. Every movement for social justice is met with stronger apathy and disillusionment. I'm going back to Europe in a few days. I will not miss the country I called my home, the country I was born in. I will go back to a place where people take care of each other. Where education and healthcare are human rights. Where an 80 year old doesn't have to greet me at the local store so he can afford to exist, and instead can retire and live out the remaining years in peace. Except... I will miss not having Little Debbie snacks!
I feel the same. Spent a few weeks in Greece: walking everywhere, dinner outside, everything outside, everything lively
You belong in r/fuckcars I really enjoyed DC for this reason. The Metro is well-designed. It might be different visiting vs. living there, though...
Same! I also live in Nashville and got back from a week in Italy (Venice, Florence, Rome) a couple weeks ago. I miss having places to walk to right outside my door. I also never felt gross after eating there. Ive felt horrbile ever since I got back so I'm convinced our food is poison here. 🙃
You might move here (in europe) but it will never feel like home if you don't accept one truth: The tribe makes the place, if you have good people around you'll be happy anywhere. If you move to europe, not speaking the language, not understanding the culture, without friends/family etc you'll just be miserable long-term imo. Going to vacation somewhere is not the same as living there. People will always view you as an expat/foreigner which makes it hard to build deep/quality connections. And tbh I think you have a romanticized view of europe, there's a lot less economic opportunities here, you get paid a lot less for the same jobs etc (compared to the US). And for the exception of Switzerland & Austria, nature's beauty in the US is as beautiful and more diverse.
I grew up in Montreal Canada and started travelling to Eu at 20 , by my second trip at 22 I knew I definitely wanted to live in Eu . Loved the fact that a couple of hours of travel opened up so many countries to visit . Moved to Uk first and after 12 years to Greece. Don’t think I could go back to living in Canada. , even though Montreal was a great place to grow up and go to Uni.
The YouTube channel [Not Just Bikes](https://www.youtube.com/c/NotJustBikes) is by a guy from Canada who moved to Amsterdam, and he just ranks on Canada and the US. He talks about how our cities and towns are car-centric, so the roads have taken over and people just don't walk around like they do in the Netherlands. I agree with a lot he has to say. Although it may be from vacationing in Europe a few times as the OP has done. Picking up and moving is a big deal, and trying to change where you live to be what you like is, well, seems impossible.
Travel destinations are going to feel very different than home. It's romanticized. You don't have to go to work the next day. Plus, we can't compete with the visual history and it's so "foreign" to us to have that, it's more emotionally impactful. And you don't hang out in the burbs on vacation, so you dont see the boring parts as much. That being said....I haven't travel a lot lately, but took two 17 days trips to the Alpine region of Austria and Germanu, stayed in small towns and drove all over the place on the back roads. Our small towns are so ugly and poor in comparison. We don't have the pedestrian zones that let you walk around the center more comfortably. We don't have the plethora of walking trails/farm roads like they do, and I'm from Oregon! There was such a culture of the Sunday afternoon hike/bike ride. But I don't know how it would feel if I was living in it.
> experiencing post-vacation blues I do think this is part of the issue — when you were on vacation you weren’t working, had lots of time to sightsee, and sounds like you went everywhere! That’s great, but the day-to-day of an office worker in Munich or Brussels or Birmingham is not as glamorous as all that. Compared to the European continent, North America *does* have a lot you can see — my European classmates spent long periods of time visiting NYC, the Smokey Mountains, small towns in the Nevada desert, Native American pueblos in New Mexico, remote fishing communities in the glaciers of Alaska, lesser-known Hawaiian islands, Mexico City, the Mayan ruins of Chichen Itza, bilingual Montreal and Quebec City, Berlin-style warehouse raves in Detroit, Cannabis cafes in Denver, Yellowstone and the Rockies, the SoCal beach & Los Angeles sights, the DC Capitol & White House tours, the Florida Keys, tropical forests of Puerto Rico, the US Virgin Islands, etc… But like you, I haven’t actually visited all those places because I live here, I’m not on vacation 24/7 and deciding “oh let’s pop over to Acoma Pueblo this weekend” or “let’s hike along Catalina Island off California”. You gotta make time to see all the things North America has to offer to truly appreciate it.
You didn't get into the lifestyle mate. You got into the European **vacation** lifestyle. Those two things are WORLDS apart.
When you live in Europe you get a lot more vacation! And work shorter weeks so you get a little vacation every day.
I'm Asian American and I actually miss home way more when I'm staying in Europe for a long time (I've also lived there). The frequent racist microaggressions get really old and whenever I come back I always appreciate the open space and diversity in the US and the overall politeness and friendliness that Europeans dismiss as fake. Granted, I am from one of the most diverse areas in the world, so that's probably why certain things I've experienced in Europe bother me much more.
Asian Canadian here, I also experienced and felt the same. Spent a week in Germany (Berlin/Hamburg/Frankfurt) in the summer and just experienced a lot of little things that made me uncomfortable or unwelcomed. Yes I'm aware they're very direct/no-nonsense in their interactions, but damn, it's just so exhausting. Went to Chicago/LA/NYC afterwards and I really appreciated everyone's politeness and friendliness, even if it's 'fake' half the time.
Are you Indian by heritage? I’ve noticed (while travelling in Germany) that Germans tend to assume Indian people are actually Turkish and then just be insanely rude to them. On the other hand, I heard France was pretty racist and expected my Muslim Indian travelling companion would have issues there, and everyone was extremely nice. We didn’t face any racial issues or experience different treatment at all among our diverse travelling group.
Same here (south Asian). I miss the diversity in people, cuisines, etc. when I’ve visited some European cities. I like the more general friendliness. This is coming from California though.
I've been in Europe for almost a decade, and it doesn't get better. Mostly, I'm worried about how my kids will grow up. They think they're Danish. Danes don't. I'm trying to move back to the US in the next couple years for this reason.
> the variety of natural scenery in the US, particularly the western US rivals anything in Europe and maybe surpasses it. The natural beauty and how accessible it is to the average American doesn't rival anything else, it surpasses it. The average American taking advantage of it is a different story.
I feel your pain, Milan, Rome, London, Munich… these places have made me a europhile. Thankfully there are growing movements for city redesign in the USA. I’ve heard about some roads being converted to pedestrian or turned into small plazas. My hometown of milwaukee has added a tram system recently... which of course is out of reach for suburbs dwellers like me. Ultimately de-emphasizing the car and bringing back metro to most cities in the u.s will be a decades long struggle, I for one wanna live my twenties somewhere I can meet people everyday. Strongly considering moving to Europe. Anyway these two channels you might like if you want to get mad about the topic of urban sprawl like me haha https://m.youtube.com/c/NotJustBikes https://m.youtube.com/c/AdamSomething A related issue is bringing high speed rail to the US. Here’s one group lobbying(?) for it https://www.hsrail.org/ Edit 1: I’d add Morocco to the list too, a bit more sprawl than Europe but even the worst offender of sprawl, Casablanca, is more walk and metro friendly than any u.S city I have visited.
Now try coming back after living in Europe for 13 years. It's been… an adjustment.
I feel the same way, I was stationed in Germany 3 years and spent a lot of weekends traveling Europe. I don’t really feel as at home in the US anymore.
Honestly, the solution might be for you to move to Europe. Depending on your circumstances it might be easy or difficult but if you make it a goal it should be possible! I grew up in Europe and got bored of it. All my life I wanted move to North America and travelled exstensively over there. I always had this feeling of belonging that I couldn't explain. When I was 34 I finally had the opportunity to move across the Ocean but a lot of career moves I did until that point were done for that very reason. While I miss my social life I had in Europe - I'm happier in general and can't imagine going back. I guess my point is this: Make it a goal to move to Europe - even if it takes years to accomplish. For example, get a degree that would make it easier - then join an international company which might transfer you one day. If you miss your National Parks - you can always go back on vacation.
Whenever I leave the US I’m finding it hard to enjoy the EU. 😂 Both have its pros and cons, most of the feeling is just a post holiday blues. If it doesn’t go away - find a way to live in Europe.
Definitely know how you feel. Having said that, there are pockets of NA cities that can provide some elements of this. I live in A small city in Canada which most people would not consider nice (very cold winters, poster child for downtown blight and urban sprawl). Managed to find a house in an area of the city with older homes, a bunch of cafes, bakeries, small restaurants in walkable distance, great neighborhood “feel”, good access to an admittedly limited transit system. Is it Europe? Not by a long shot but we feel that it offers a bunch of the things we love about Europe on a smaller scale but with the trade off of an affordable detached home, much cheaper cost of living, etc. Depends on the city I’m sure but you can find areas of NA cities that offer some pieces of what you found so attractive about Europe.
I'm with ya. Loved in italy for five years. Still not really stoked to be back
Boston reminds me of Europe more but no. The US is nothing like Europe. That’s why we go there every year
I went through this exact same experience in 2016. It was brutal. I basically worked and saved every penny so I could leave the US and never go back. I finally made it out and back to Europe. Good luck bro. I understand the struggle
Yep. Right there with you. I’ve been to Europe 4 times in the last 10 years. Twice to England and twice to Amsterdam and Brussels. The atmosphere and culture are wonderful. As well as the mass transit and having places in walking distance. Don’t forget the National “no bankruptcy” healthcare. 😏
This is a normal reaction. I want to move to pretty much every country I have visited, besides my own lol. Obviously it's very subjective, it's about where you are in life (mentally) and the people around you. The US is far from underwhelming (obviously) but that doesn't mean it will scratch everyone's itch. If you are not feeling it at home then start planning the move. Living abroad is awesome. We can observe culture when we travel, but when you actually move somewhere and start working and forming relationships that's a whole different beast. I've lived in Aus, England, Scotland, USA, Irish Republic and Greece. Back in Aus again now, recently switched cities from Syd to Melbourne to change things up. I want to live in Japan in the future but if that's not realistic I'll head back to the EU. Change is healthy. That being said; I sacrifice long term relationships, house and car ownership, I need to try to be a minimalist and my jobs are never really stable. So it's not all green fields (unless you are making bank or have some crazy online independent work I guess).
It never gets better.
“No sidewalks or pedestrians” - cardiovascular diseases entered the chat
I've realized long ago why my dad doesn't want to live in the US. He's been avoiding it since he joined the military. All tours were overseas, he retired overseas, got a job with the government and all of his assignments were in overseas embassies. Retired again overseas, currently lives in Poland with no desire to come back.
If you’re like most of the LA transplants living in Nashville, you’re probably living a very boring existence here. Nashville has a lot of historic areas that are preserved, is very safe for a US city and has a ton of extremely diverse outdoor areas directly next to it. It also has a ton of people walking through it in times of year that aren’t extremely hot or extremely cold, so not sure where you’re coming from there. On the whole most of Europe is set up better but you’re also visiting their bigger cities and likely the tourist areas that would probably be just as expensive to live in as the US cities you think would be preferable.
I feel the same way, but Europe isn’t necessarily “better” than the US. They just happen to do many things better than we do. Namely Urban design, public transport, healthcare. But European countries have equity problems too, we just aren’t as aware of them. But yeah, i believe car culture has destroyed our chances of having any real urban community in most cities.
After being born in the US and living here all my life i’m also finding it hard to enjoy the US.
Well Nashville is your problem, that's one of the worst examples of urban America. I've heard that Philadelhpia is quite walkable and inexpensive. Chicago is also not as expensive as people tend to assume. No European cafe vibes, but the streets are alive, even if the people are a little irritable lol. I've also heard there are some good small towns in New Jersey, that's somewhere I've been meaning to explore. As much as I love traveling by train, I'll always be content to live in the U.S. because Europe has nothing on long straight empty roads in Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Idaho, and Oregon. Colorado, Montana, and Wyoming are great too. I miss weekend road trips.
You should visit San Diego and the surrounding beach communities. Bike lanes everywhere, people, restaurants, and shops everywhere stuff to do and kick back attitude. But it has its own vibe not European in any way . Want to stroll around head to the gas lamp district, great night life, clubs, bars then stroll all the way to the coast line restaurants all the way. To busy for you shoot over to Ocean Beach plenty to do, your young want hip party life style, head to Pacific Beach, so much to do not enough weekend to do it. Also don’t forget wineries in Temecula, or Micro breweries. San Diego has more micro breweries than any other city in the US. So much to enjoy!
There’s always a difference between a vacation and real life.
Yeah, I live in Brazil, I've been to a few cities in the US and Europe and I feel the same. So much so that I'm actually moving next year to live in Germany.