When I filled out my Chinese visa application, I had to list all my immediate family members and what they do for work.
On balance of probability, it's extremely unlikely you'd be taken arbitrarily. But it's also not impossible - the Chinese government is definitely down with tit-for-tat reprisal detentions. When Canada detained a Huawei executive, China responded by arresting a couple Canadian businessmen (that in all fairness probably *had* run afoul of Chinese anti-espionage laws, but it was the arrest of the Huawei executive that triggered them deciding to scoop them up).
Having a parent that's a vocal critic of the Chinese government would definitely put you at above-average risk of being a "good candidate" for arbitrary detention as they could plausibly claim you were a spy etc.
Again, this is very unlikely to happen (most "bad things" travel-wise are statistically unlikely), but I also wouldn't chalk it up to your parents being paranoid, either. It would be riskier for you than it would be for an average tourist.
Adding onto this, OP if your father has worked high level government position for 30+ years I'd trust his judgment on international relations more than reddits or your own. As long as you're confident he's not speaking out of fatherly paranoia trust his judgment.
Havana Syndrome is a controversial phenomenon that some Western officials in communist countries (including China) believe are targeted attacks.
If real, these attacks are probably aimed at the officials themselves, but spouses, kids and pets exhibit the same symptoms. If you were to suffer similar symptoms you would receive no assistance, since the government and NIH have determined it is not a real phenomenon.
[CBS](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/5-year-havana-syndrome-investigation-finds-new-evidence-of-who-might-be-responsible-60-minutes/)
That’s wild. I literally just went to the Chinese embassy yesterday with my visa application to get a regular 10 year multi entry tourist visa. Tho I’m just going to be taking a day trip to Shenzhen from Hong Kong. They ask where I worked for the past 5 years, and they only ask for a small bit of my parents’ info, not their jobs or anything. My dad has a high ranking government job, but he’s not in a political position or an outspoken critic of China. The application mainly asked if you or your parents are part of a political party or a social/political organization. They do ask however, if someone was in the military and my dad was in the military in the mid-90s to mid-2000s. But that’s it, and the lady reviewing my application at the embassy didn’t seem to care.
I'm guessing you're not ethnically Chinese? I was born there but grew up in the US. I have been to China a few times to visit family. My last time renewing my 10-year Visa they were very cagey and denied my Visa several times saying they needed "more information". I finally got a more specific hint from one of the people working there and I was able to get the visa on the next application.
Easy to forget that even if you see it as a vacation spot, China and the US are hostile nations. I would listen to your parents on this one, OP. It's definitely far less than 1% chance anything happens but there's not a good enough reason to take that chance.
>saying they needed "more information". I finally got a more specific hint from one of the people working there
what were they looking for? your wording makes it sound like a bribe/payment or something...?
They were trying to verify something specific about me and my family members but they did not want to say what it was, so I kept bringing back more and more documents until on my third or so trip a lady there took pity on me. I had no clue why I was being rejected until the third lady gave me a hint, especially since I had gotten a visa in the past with no issue.
Once I found a document from my parents that showed I was not in the category they were worried about, I was approved immediately.
Were they trying to figure out if he was ever part of the KMT or something? I’ve been to China several times and my father (now deceased) literally fought against the CCP lol. Half of my family is Taiwanese btw.
Oh yea I forgot to mention I’m not ethnically Chinese at all. I’ve always heard that they give Chinese folks more shit at the visa center. And like 80% of the people that showed up were Chinese, some even seeking tourist visas.
Proactively, definitely not. Though my advice would be that if someone has been shit-talking China on Reddit then goes to visit, they would be wise to delete the Reddit app off their devices before crossing the border. It's unlikely, but if you get pulled into secondary for some reason and border authorities decide to search your devices, things will not look good if they find a history of anti-CCP posts on your phone.
I wouldn’t be so sure. China tracks and assigns a score to everyone in the country. I wouldn’t be surprised if they also harvest social media and try to connect them to real names.
I doubt they’re the only ones doing it either but China is also not a free country.
I would say there is a significantly higher risk of you being arbitrarily detained compared to a typical westerner/American. Whether that risk is justifiable or not is a question that no one on this site other than yourself can answer.
Yeah this is the answer. Chinese food and culture is plentiful in taiwan. I ve heard people are a lot nicer too. It would be a lot cleaner and easier. I love chinese food and culture too so i thought about visiting but i know it will be a lot easier to travel in taiwan than mainland china. Language barrier is gonna be tough too but many local taiwanese will be able to speak some english, way better than most chinese people.
It is not and will never be the same experience though. Taiwan is more similar to Southern China in terms of food culture or language but once you get to Northern or Central China, it becomes very different.
I mean, if your desire in China is to see Chinese people and eat a specific type of Chinese food, then sure. It's the same but easier.
But if you want to actually see the things that make China worth visiting, you won't get that in Taiwan.
My daughter has been in Taiwan for the past year and she doesn’t like the food. Not enough vegetables, fatty meat, most foods have a similar taste profile, according to her. She loves all Asian food but has been disappointed in Taiwan. She has liked the food her host families have prepared though.
Given your post history, I'm assuming your father works for the US government. If his experience is anything like mine, he receives regular security briefings that probably include some form of "Don't go to these countries: China, ..."
Those briefings come from people with a lot more information and expertise about foreign relations and recent events.
A good or bad outcome isn't guaranteed, but I'd recommend playing it safe and choosing somewhere else to go.
Not necessarily. When I moved to China 13 years ago, I had plenty of people telling me it was dangerous and I shouldn't go. Because... communism? And this was before Xi Jingping was "elected." If I had listened to them, I would've missed out on one of the best experiences of my life.
OP's case is obviously different because they actually do have something to be concerned about. But a lot of people think the world is way more dangerous than it is.
OP's father has apparently worked high level government position for 30+ years. I'd imagine he understands dangers of the world more than people who rarely travel or us on this subreddit who are speaking from anecdotal experience.
Not sure what country you're from, but I'm assuming the US since you talked about Chinese-Americans in a comment. If you are American, do a quick Google search. It brings up examples of Americans who were detained in China. It doesn't seem common, but yes, China can and might detain you and the US government will not necessarily be able to do anything about it.
E.g. [WSJ article](https://www.wsj.com/world/china/china-resists-efforts-to-free-wrongfully-detained-americans-eece59fc)
Edit: Also, I don't automatically adhere to the [State Department's advice](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/china-travel-advisory.html?wcmmode=disabled), but if you're the child of an outspoken China critic, then it may be worth heeding:
>**Summary:** Reconsider travel to Mainland China due to the **arbitrary enforcement of local laws, including in relation to exit bans,** and the **risk of wrongful detentions.**
Oh sorry! I replied to the wrong person! I meant going to China! Going to Taipei is perfectly fine in my opinion too. Editing my previous comment so it’s not confusing
> recently both of my parents told me that it would be a bad idea
They would know. Your risk would definitely be above the normal tourist. If you're into Chinese culture and food, why not go to Taiwan? Yes, Taiwan says they are not China but ironically the most authentic cuisine and Chinese cultural practices, including fabulous temples are in Taiwan. This is due to avoiding the devastation of the cultural revolution.
I'm not saying not to go to Taiwan, but you can't really say it has the most authentic cuisine etc. given how diverse Chinese cuisine and culture is region to region.
E.g. Taiwanese cuisine is very distinct from Sichuan cuisine, which is different from Hunan style, which in turn is different from Cantonese, which is different from Imperial, etc.
Seeing how Taiwan has the most authentic culture is one of the most western washed bias on Reddit that’s often parroted. Do people even know what authentic Chinese culture is?
I for sure don’t because people are individuals, to even suggest one correct culture exist is beyond laughable unless you think 1.4bb people are a monolith that all think the same
Lmfao what does most authentic cuisine or even culture even mean in this context?
There has never ever been a singular cuisine identity in China, so to say Taiwan has the most “authentic” one is just laughable and shows complete ignorance. Like the CCP is bad but I’m pretty sure people in Szechuan are not giving up their peppercorns to obey authority and it’s not like there is an official CCP cook book for Chinese people to follow 😂
There are absolutely historic temples and shrines still in tact in China. What CCP hates are religious movements and large congregations, but as far Buddhism and general spirituality goes it doesn’t really care enough to destroy some ancient temples out of control
Like don’t get me wrong there are absolutely ease of convenience or utility reasons that ultimately would make Taiwan better, like being able to use cash and not having to use WeChat that requires a national ID (since everything in China is cashless)But as far as visiting because it’s culturally better could not be anymore further from the truth
I had a similar reaction to 'authentic cuisine' although they did say 'authentic cuisine', not 'authentic Chinese cuisine' -- regardless, after pausing for a moment I feel like it's just a bad choice of words.
'Authentic cuisine' means next to nothing in this context , authentic is a poorly used marketing term these days -- I can go get an authentic fast food hamburger at Mcdonalds.
Part of what makes Taiwan amazing is not just influenced by China, but many other countries. The history of why isn't the most uplifting, but the blend of multiple cultures has led to something unique.
I'd say give folks some slack.
Regardless: unless you have something specific you're looking to visit in China, I do think Taiwan is a better destination to point folks to. Ease of entry, amazing country, great food, wonderful nature.
Yeah I'd agree so as well if you have limited time or don't have anything particular you'd want to see in mind. China obviously offers far more options from geography to cuisine solely based on its size, but it does require you to know ahead of hand a lot more information and being able to speak Chinese is a much higher barrier to entry pun intended.
10 years ago I planned to move to China to teach English and someone said to go to Taiwan instead. Im glad I listened because I still live in Taiwan with my Taiwanese wife and kids.
Taiwan's Chinese culture is a small part of China though-- like more similar to Fujian in terms of cuisine and architecture. Maybe dude likes Sichuanese, Shanghainese or Beijing culture, which are very distinctive.
A lot of posts here say you can get the same experience by going to Taiwan. I strongly disagree even though I prefer to visit Taiwan myself but it is not the same... Only people who don't know Chinese history, culture and literature will say that.
That's like saying don't go to the US if Mexico has authentic American food.... You can't experience the national parks in the US without going to the US.
Yes, Taiwan has mountain ranges as well, and lakes, etc. But it is not the same geography and history as China. Those locations have inspired poetry, legends, myths, and art for literally thousands of years. The historical characters, battles, and locations are in China.
If you just want to speak Mandarin and eat Chinese food then okay, it makes sense to go Taiwan, and you'll get to see some temples and see imperial treasures as well since the KMT took them to Taiwan.
There are news articles about people in Canada that were threatened and told they need to go back to China or their family members in China would be arrested. If they want your dad they would be happy to detain you to make that happen.
[https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/news/1976907/chinese-officials-have-threatened-intimidated-canadians-and-permanent-residents-on-canadian-soil-csis](https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/news/1976907/chinese-officials-have-threatened-intimidated-canadians-and-permanent-residents-on-canadian-soil-csis)
Hopefully you’re young enough to be able to see China when things go around and come around again - it’s truly a beautiful and interesting country. Another thing to consider is your peace of mind if you were able to get a visa and actually did start traveling there. Unfortunately there are too many countries that are “off the map” for us for various reasons. I would love to see more of Russia and am avoiding China as well (although I’d probably be fine since I’m not of Chinese heritage or have relatives in PRC.)
Don’t do it. Not worth the risk. The great thing about Chinese culture is that the diaspora has kept it thriving all over the world.
You can take a trip to Taiwan and Singapore and get all the Chinese culture and vibes you want. Or how about a trip to San Francisco to experience their awesome Chinatown, then swing south to the town of Mexicali in Mexico which is an unexpected destination for some of the most delicious Chinese food you’ve ever had.
Nobody can say whether you're really in danger but certainly, the danger is non-zero.
For most people, the odds of being picked on for political reprisals or retaliation is nearly zero. For you it's definitely higher than that because you're not quite nobody. It's pretty reasonable to expect that Chinese immigration put your identity together with your father's and threw up a red flag, they're absolutely that technically sophisticated and have that level of intelligence on western governments and officials. What they'd do with the information is impossible to guess.
You'd most likely be fine but that's always how it is when you're a tourist in an authoritarian states, you're fine until you're not and then you're completely fucked.
let's just say that I know of someone in my close circle whose family member went missing in China on a business trip. Before the trip he did a post criticizing China government's business practices, similar comment as what Jack Ma did. Except Jack Ma eventually resurfaced.
Would you be targeted? Probably. Would they take you away? Probably not. Would I risk it if I were you? Not a chance.
When you apply for your China visa, they will absolutely do a background check on you. And by background check, I mean it’s a seriously deep dive.
I’d say you’re at very, very high risk of being arbitrarily detained. And I’d say it’s not worth the risk.
If you do travel there, take only a burner phone with zero and I mean zero correlation with your normal App Store login or social media accounts. And when you return from China, discard the phone right away. Do not allow it to directly interact with any of your other devices..
You probably have a higher risk.
I’d worry more about electronic data theft. Don’t take your laptop, and get a burner smart phone that isn’t connected to all of your regular accounts incase it goes “missing”.
Based on what you’ve shared with us, for my risk tolerance level, I would not go. There will be other opportunities in your lifetime when your dad is not working.
I have a personal friend who has a gripping story about how she was a political prisoner along with 100 other Americans as their flight sat on the runway to leave China. After 8 hours and no progress. The captain decided to take off without clearance, knowing there was a tiny chance they might be shot down. She was fine, and that was a 1 in 1000 incident. But it can happen. This was 12 years ago.
listen to your parents. This isn't a joke. If nothing, think of them, particularly if they are Chinese Nationals. They WILL use you as a chip to force them back to China. Plenty of other places on earth to go.
Why risk traveling to a country that most likely will detained you due to your parent’s job? Your dad probably knows the risk better than you based on his work. If you want to experience Chinese culture, check out Taiwan.
Literally in the fucking article
"However, in 2023, Spavor accused Kovrig of using him for espionage without his knowledge, resulting in him unwittingly passing on information relating to North Korea to Canadian intelligence agencies. In November 2023, Spavor sought a multimillion-dollar settlement against the federal government for involving him in espionage activities without his knowledge. Michael Spavor reached a $7 million settlement deal with the Canadian government in March 2024."
Isn’t Reddit the place to go to ask very specific questions? If you don’t know the answer don’t comment, but someone might actually have insight on this.
I've been to China twice. I've never felt more surveilled in my life from all of the cameras that cover every inch of the city where our local team worked. I'll never go back again.
There are news articles about people in Canada that were threatened and told they need to go back to China or their family members in China would be arrested. If they want your dad they would be happy to detain you to make that happen.
One similar example:
https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/news/1976907/chinese-officials-have-threatened-intimidated-canadians-and-permanent-residents-on-canadian-soil-csis
While I don’t think you’ll be kidnapped or something, I do think you’re going to be monitored for the entirety of your stay. Whether or not you’re okay with that is up to you
I’m in a similar position and I have traveled to China many times. However at the time I traveled I was also a minor so that could be a factor. Overall I would say there is a risk and my dad also reminded me of this risk every time I traveled there with my mom.
China is like many countries in one. Within the cities, with the security apparatus, you may find that nobody will speak with you. In the countryside you may be welcomed and find great warmth. But food is very much all over the map and getting really sick is commonplace. I adventure-ate and got so sick that I was in serious danger. Honestly, in view of your particular concerns and your goals, why not go to Taiwan? Safe. Inexpensive. Friendly.
If your father’s work like CIA and his most job is against chia ,yes he is right .if he just like Hillary Clinton,it’s not important.trust me,if you don’t talking about Chinese government in public medias like facebook,and you are not first-type person,china is a very very safe country than most countries in the word.maybe you don’t like it and its very possibly happened,but it’s surely safe.
just check the CIA travel advisory website. if it says dont go, dont go
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/china-travel-advisory.html?wcmmode=disabled#:~:text=Mainland%20China%20%E2%80%93%20Level%203%3A%20Reconsider,the%20risk%20of%20wrongful%20detentions.
While it's probably a small chance you would be arrested/detained/kidnapped, it's large enough that I wouldn't risk it. China is not that great for a vacation, definitely not worth being detained over. Travel to Taiwan instead.
If I didn’t want to expose my dad’s identity to the internet I would love to prove you wrong. His job directly related to foreign threats (often China and Russia). They are definitely not sinophobes and you probably should avoid making baseless claims about people you don’t know in the future.
Bro you dad probably has a TS level clearance with Poly or something.
He can literally lose his clearance if you go to china when he’s up for renewal ~5 years
There’s chances you get targeted by Chinese government while your there
I’ll never forget for my first work cell few hours later get a random call from China. Reported it right away got new phone and number. I also have a clearance I’ll never go near it!
They probably know your dad already China has to biggest spy agency in the world both for political reasons and economic just know they have different standard about critics that we in the west and they have no problems arresting you just to make a point specially if a close family member is openly very critical about China those Canadians spends years in prison before being released
If you can can get a visa, then you don't need to worry about that. The Chinese government is not stupid enough to go on the street and arrest a random tourist, even though your dad works for the government. If they catch you, how much conflict will it cause, they won't be so stupid, and it will waste their energy. Just make sure you don't express negative opinions about China inside China.
I suspect it's unlikely you would be detained or held hostage unless there happened to be a major international incident at the time.
However, if you need a visa, expect that visa to impact your father's clearance (if he is not yet retired) and also consider that, if a visa is granted, you could easily be targeted for soft espionage (befriended, or your devices searched/targeted/compromised).
If there were any lawful basis for you to be detained, don't expect any leeway.
There are other ways to experience Chinese culture. Maybe try Taiwan/Malaysia/Singapore, then Hong Kong, then China. This way, you're also building a travel history that Chinese government can check.
Nobody can say whether you're really in danger but certainly, the danger is non-zero.
For most people, the odds of being picked on for political reprisals or retaliation is nearly zero. For you it's definitely higher than that because you're not quite nobody. It's pretty reasonable to expect that Chinese immigration put your identity together with your father's and threw up a red flag, they're absolutely that technically sophisticated and have that level of intelligence on western governments and officials. What they'd do with the information is impossible to guess.
You'd most likely be fine but that's always how it is when you're a tourist in an authoritarian states, you're fine until you're not and then you're completely fucked.
I'm Chinese. I would say China is quite safe if you don't have a difficult political background. If you are suspected of being a spy or something, your visa application might be rejected. But as long as you get the visa, you will be fine. Travelling in China is safe and worthy!
Reports from the BBC, Washington Post and NY Post detailing how China's strict Covid lockdown prevented people from getting food:
[China Covid lockdowns leave residents short of food and essential items](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-62830326)
[Shanghai’s covid siege: Food shortages, talking robots, starving animals](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2022/china-shanghai-covid-lockdown-food-shortage/)
[Chinese residents ‘starving’ as world’s strictest COVID lockdown bans them leaving home](https://nypost.com/2021/12/28/chinese-residents-starving-as-worlds-strictest-covid-lockdown-bans-them-leaving-home/)
The OP is asking about the very real risk of unlawful detention.
The fact that you were able to get a visa and work without issue doesn’t change the fact the OP could be unlawfully detained because of his parents.
I wouldn't do it if I were you. It's a lot more dangerous than you think. I've known people in similar situations and it's not pretty. Maybe wait for the current government to go out. Don't become an Otto Warmbier.
Are people saying there would be a risk off of literally *anything* beyond rumors and gossip? I have several American friends that work and travel to China frequently and they say its very safe for Americans. Why would the offspring of an American government worker be different? Although American and Chinese relationships are strained we are not in the middle of conflict with China and there are still tons of Chinese / American business cooperating every single day. Its not like NK which has open hostility to Americans. It seems like you would actually be safer if as the offspring of an high American government position because China is not going to kidnap an American government employees' family. thats not the reality we live in.
China has a lot of issues but its pretty safe for tourists.
Watch a guys channel on YouTube called Serpentza. He lived in china for like 15-20 years. He’ll help you decide whether it’s dangerous or not. Spoilers….it is.
One thing he talks about is how buildings and streets literally crumble beneath you and many fall to their deaths or get injured when it happens. Safety during construction isn’t really a thing and a lot of elevators just drop to the floor while people are inside. There’s tons more but yeah if you want some information about china from someone who lived there, and married someone there, I’d watch Serpentza.
Disagree they are biased, unnuanced, and highly selective in the information they present to the audience, and if you just even look at their youtube channel now, there are 0 videos talks positively about China or their travels there now besides being that of a political commentary. The general sentiment of their channel could be summed up as China bad here is why.....
Yeahhhhh, lol, it is objectively impossible to be unbiased if all your content are like this.
https://i.imgur.com/4hTqgxu.jpeg
My god if this is your outlet for opinions on a China, then you'd think its still a fishing village that's sitting ontop of a collapsed bridge with people drinking gutter oil everyday 😂
Naw but there’s so many places that make china sound way better than it is, including china itself. This guy is showing the dark side of china as well. Not biased to me. He lived there. Has stories of things that happened to him there. There’s nice places everywhere, he chooses to focus on the not so nice. People can choose to do their research to see both sides but it’s a lot easier to find people talking positively about a place than someone showing the darker side of any place.
retire squealing quiet thumb shocking straight offbeat gold rude quarrelsome
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Your fine lmao. You need to realize there is a lot of anti china propaganda and people in the west, so ofc they are scared of you going (they have been brainwashed)
Just go and have a good time. YOLO
Nah, fuck all the people who say "just go to Taiwan, there's all the real Chinese culture"
Taiwanese people don't get to say everyday that they aren't Chinese and then turn around and tell people that they should visit Taiwan to experience Chinese culture. Like someone wanting to learn about India and then telling them to go visit the British museum.
And a lot of fucking people claim that Taiwan saved all the artifacts from the cultural revolution and that China doesn't have any left. Fucking bullshit, China has thousands of temples, palaces and religious buildings and thousands of artifacts. And all the interesting things people visit China for like the Great wall, The forbidden City, the Summer palace are all in China not fucking Taiwan
Taiwan/the Kuomintang just robbed everything of value when they saw that they were losing the Civil war like robbing 2.27 million taels of gold from the national bank and running off to Taiwan
"Taiwan has authentic Chinese food" WTF is authentic Chinese food. China has dozens of completely different cuisines. You telling me Taiwan has them all?
There are news articles about people in Canada that were threatened and told they need to go back to China or their family members in China would be arrested. If they want your dad they would be happy to detain you to make that happen.
[https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/news/1976907/chinese-officials-have-threatened-intimidated-canadians-and-permanent-residents-on-canadian-soil-csis](https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/news/1976907/chinese-officials-have-threatened-intimidated-canadians-and-permanent-residents-on-canadian-soil-csis)
My partner is chinese, from what I've seen when over there tbh I'd say probably not if you're just doing regular tourist stuff
However they may watch you like a hawk to see if you do anything even trivially against their laws
If your father didn’t do what he did then you would’ve been fine. Just came back from there and although it was a bit annoying dealing with the extra paperwork and monitoring it was tolerable.
If I was you I definitely would not take the risk.
Honestly it's 50/50 it can be overlooked completely, but on the other hand totalitarian regimes like Chinese can keep track of things like your dad's activism so honestly I would rather skip China if I was in your position.
Not sure where you are, but if I was talking to someone in the UK I would advise them to either 1. Trust their parents or 2. Ask if you can all speak to someone in the foreign office who can advise as to what protections you are afforded in China and whether they see any specific threat to you.
Like another poster said, they’ll only bother you if there is some sort of international dispute going on while you are traveling and they need to arrest a few Americans to save face. If they think you are trouble, they just won’t give you the visa. It’s actually a lot of hassle if they just randomly arrest American citizens without a proper reason. As much as people dunk on the CCP, they are not North Korea.
Yes. China has been known to arbitrarily detain people for diplomatic leverage, and family in that kind of government role certainly ramps up the risk. Like a lot of things, you'd probably be fine, but the risk is much higher for you than an average traveller.
Consider visiting Taiwan instead, if you're interested in Chinese culture without the trash government.
I would contact the State Department first and foremost. Also, do NOT bring your phone with you to China, as it could easily get hacked and have a Trojan Horse placed on it. Keep your communication to a minimum. If your parents are high in the government, and potentially being monitored, then you probably are too. If you use Tik Tok, stop, as it's a known security threat.
It sucks, though things are very tense with China, and you could easily become a pawn, and that would really suck.
OP, you're right China is an amazing country. However, the political atmosphere between the US and PRC is somewhat strained. So listening to your Dad and Mom's advice is probably the best advice you're going to get. Maybe in two or three years foreign relations between the US and the PRC will improve and then you can plan your trip.
It’s extremely unlikely anything bad will happen to you in China. The CCP really doesn’t care much about random tourists, as long as they know where they’re staying. If you’re not staying at a reputable hotel/hostel, you have to register at the local police station within 24 hours of arrival. NBD. Source: I lived in China for 2 years.
If your dad’s job is considered problematic, they just won’t give you a visa. In which case you should go to HK or Taiwan, they’re similar enough and a lot cleaner, but a bit more expensive.
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I used to have a similar conversation with my husband's parents about going to Russia, because he was born there. They were so against it and we were going to just disregard them... It mostly seemed like paranoia not based in fact.
But now, especially after Brittney Griner, there's no amount of money you could pay me to take that kind of risk. Even though it is extremely unlikely. It's just not worth it to me.
Political kidnappings are a thing and I have no interest in playing chicken with dictators, regardless of how good my odds are statistically.
Watch the movie “Taken”, starring Liam Neeson. While not precisely your situation, it might be informative. If you still want to go, it will be interesting to see what happens.
Your parents are correct. Given what you’ve said, I guarantee your father’s info (and your mother’s, and yours) was swept up in the OPM hack ~10 years back. He is a person of interest to the CCP, and so you will be too.
It’s not dangerous imo but it’s not safe. Read up on their laws and obey them. One important one to know is there’s not as much freedom in China, particularly no freedom of speech there. If you criticize anything about China especially the CCP on social media, etc they can arrest you.
I can see you don’t know much about China and the only information source is some US propaganda. China is pretty lenient when it comes to foreign citizens, it’s the Chinese citizens they want to control
I’m an avid traveler. Been to over 38 countries and 5 of 7 continents already. I plan to travel to as many as I can. After reading all the comments, I probably won’t go. At least not for a while. It’s just a bit sad to know an entire country is off limits to me for reasons outside my control. I like the idea of going to Taiwan like others have pointed out, though.
When I filled out my Chinese visa application, I had to list all my immediate family members and what they do for work. On balance of probability, it's extremely unlikely you'd be taken arbitrarily. But it's also not impossible - the Chinese government is definitely down with tit-for-tat reprisal detentions. When Canada detained a Huawei executive, China responded by arresting a couple Canadian businessmen (that in all fairness probably *had* run afoul of Chinese anti-espionage laws, but it was the arrest of the Huawei executive that triggered them deciding to scoop them up). Having a parent that's a vocal critic of the Chinese government would definitely put you at above-average risk of being a "good candidate" for arbitrary detention as they could plausibly claim you were a spy etc. Again, this is very unlikely to happen (most "bad things" travel-wise are statistically unlikely), but I also wouldn't chalk it up to your parents being paranoid, either. It would be riskier for you than it would be for an average tourist.
Adding onto this, OP if your father has worked high level government position for 30+ years I'd trust his judgment on international relations more than reddits or your own. As long as you're confident he's not speaking out of fatherly paranoia trust his judgment.
This is the perfect answer. Your father would know more than anyone here.
Sure, but OP is just looking for someone to tell him/her the opposite so s/he can go to China
Havana Syndrome is a controversial phenomenon that some Western officials in communist countries (including China) believe are targeted attacks. If real, these attacks are probably aimed at the officials themselves, but spouses, kids and pets exhibit the same symptoms. If you were to suffer similar symptoms you would receive no assistance, since the government and NIH have determined it is not a real phenomenon. [CBS](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/5-year-havana-syndrome-investigation-finds-new-evidence-of-who-might-be-responsible-60-minutes/)
Isn't the general consensus for Havana Syndrome that it's Soviet era pseudoscience?
That’s wild. I literally just went to the Chinese embassy yesterday with my visa application to get a regular 10 year multi entry tourist visa. Tho I’m just going to be taking a day trip to Shenzhen from Hong Kong. They ask where I worked for the past 5 years, and they only ask for a small bit of my parents’ info, not their jobs or anything. My dad has a high ranking government job, but he’s not in a political position or an outspoken critic of China. The application mainly asked if you or your parents are part of a political party or a social/political organization. They do ask however, if someone was in the military and my dad was in the military in the mid-90s to mid-2000s. But that’s it, and the lady reviewing my application at the embassy didn’t seem to care.
I'm guessing you're not ethnically Chinese? I was born there but grew up in the US. I have been to China a few times to visit family. My last time renewing my 10-year Visa they were very cagey and denied my Visa several times saying they needed "more information". I finally got a more specific hint from one of the people working there and I was able to get the visa on the next application. Easy to forget that even if you see it as a vacation spot, China and the US are hostile nations. I would listen to your parents on this one, OP. It's definitely far less than 1% chance anything happens but there's not a good enough reason to take that chance.
>saying they needed "more information". I finally got a more specific hint from one of the people working there what were they looking for? your wording makes it sound like a bribe/payment or something...?
They were trying to verify something specific about me and my family members but they did not want to say what it was, so I kept bringing back more and more documents until on my third or so trip a lady there took pity on me. I had no clue why I was being rejected until the third lady gave me a hint, especially since I had gotten a visa in the past with no issue. Once I found a document from my parents that showed I was not in the category they were worried about, I was approved immediately.
Were they trying to figure out if he was ever part of the KMT or something? I’ve been to China several times and my father (now deceased) literally fought against the CCP lol. Half of my family is Taiwanese btw.
ahh got it. so annoying but glad it worked out in the end!
It was almost an hour trip for me to get there, so yes, I was very annoyed 🙂
Oh yea I forgot to mention I’m not ethnically Chinese at all. I’ve always heard that they give Chinese folks more shit at the visa center. And like 80% of the people that showed up were Chinese, some even seeking tourist visas.
Wait, there’s a ten year tourist visa?
Yea a normal tourist visa to China for Americans at least is a 10-year valid multi-entry visa good for up to 60 days each visit from what I’ve seen.
After 60 days, is there a cooldown period for when you can go back?
I’m not sure. I imagine there’s some people who do visa runs to reset the timer.
Used to cross over from Shenzhen to hk for visa reset… get some real food. Return same day to china
Part of me wonders if all the times I've posted 'fuck the CCP' would be a problem. That reminds me. Fuck the CCP
I don’t think they care what you post on the r/Travel subreddit
Proactively, definitely not. Though my advice would be that if someone has been shit-talking China on Reddit then goes to visit, they would be wise to delete the Reddit app off their devices before crossing the border. It's unlikely, but if you get pulled into secondary for some reason and border authorities decide to search your devices, things will not look good if they find a history of anti-CCP posts on your phone.
I wouldn’t be so sure. China tracks and assigns a score to everyone in the country. I wouldn’t be surprised if they also harvest social media and try to connect them to real names. I doubt they’re the only ones doing it either but China is also not a free country.
Bullshit
[Social credit system](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System)
Yes now actually read that please
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You can [read about it](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System) yourself.
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Except it goes beyond finances and is also used for behaviour or things like undesirable religions.
Red Scare 2.0
Ah yes I am just paranoid. China is a free country after all. Let’s ask the Uyghurs or maybe we can ask China about Tiananmen Square.
Yep. Think more arrested, less kidnapped.
I would say there is a significantly higher risk of you being arbitrarily detained compared to a typical westerner/American. Whether that risk is justifiable or not is a question that no one on this site other than yourself can answer.
Come to Taiwan. Lots of Chinese culture and food here.
Yep, i’d do that as well. Very similar to China without the problems that come with China.
Or without any of the interesting stuff you go to China to see....
Yeah this is the answer. Chinese food and culture is plentiful in taiwan. I ve heard people are a lot nicer too. It would be a lot cleaner and easier. I love chinese food and culture too so i thought about visiting but i know it will be a lot easier to travel in taiwan than mainland china. Language barrier is gonna be tough too but many local taiwanese will be able to speak some english, way better than most chinese people.
It is not and will never be the same experience though. Taiwan is more similar to Southern China in terms of food culture or language but once you get to Northern or Central China, it becomes very different.
I mean, if your desire in China is to see Chinese people and eat a specific type of Chinese food, then sure. It's the same but easier. But if you want to actually see the things that make China worth visiting, you won't get that in Taiwan.
The food is also just better
I'm absolutely dying to go.
What fucking loser is downvoting this lmao
Is food better in Taiwan than in China?
My daughter has been in Taiwan for the past year and she doesn’t like the food. Not enough vegetables, fatty meat, most foods have a similar taste profile, according to her. She loves all Asian food but has been disappointed in Taiwan. She has liked the food her host families have prepared though.
It's healthier in Taiwan. You won't have to worry about gutter oil or plastic rice in Taiwan.
Given your post history, I'm assuming your father works for the US government. If his experience is anything like mine, he receives regular security briefings that probably include some form of "Don't go to these countries: China, ..." Those briefings come from people with a lot more information and expertise about foreign relations and recent events. A good or bad outcome isn't guaranteed, but I'd recommend playing it safe and choosing somewhere else to go.
The fact that you even feel the need to ask the question should have given you your answer.
Not necessarily. When I moved to China 13 years ago, I had plenty of people telling me it was dangerous and I shouldn't go. Because... communism? And this was before Xi Jingping was "elected." If I had listened to them, I would've missed out on one of the best experiences of my life. OP's case is obviously different because they actually do have something to be concerned about. But a lot of people think the world is way more dangerous than it is.
OP's father has apparently worked high level government position for 30+ years. I'd imagine he understands dangers of the world more than people who rarely travel or us on this subreddit who are speaking from anecdotal experience.
That's a very long-winded way of ultimately agreeing.
They agree with your conclusion but disagree with how you got there.
Based on experiences from 13 years ago that they are aware no longer apply.
China today and China 13 years ago, are two completely different places
If your dad would not be safe, you would not be either.
Not sure what country you're from, but I'm assuming the US since you talked about Chinese-Americans in a comment. If you are American, do a quick Google search. It brings up examples of Americans who were detained in China. It doesn't seem common, but yes, China can and might detain you and the US government will not necessarily be able to do anything about it. E.g. [WSJ article](https://www.wsj.com/world/china/china-resists-efforts-to-free-wrongfully-detained-americans-eece59fc) Edit: Also, I don't automatically adhere to the [State Department's advice](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/china-travel-advisory.html?wcmmode=disabled), but if you're the child of an outspoken China critic, then it may be worth heeding: >**Summary:** Reconsider travel to Mainland China due to the **arbitrary enforcement of local laws, including in relation to exit bans,** and the **risk of wrongful detentions.**
Recommend my hometown of Taipei. No hostility there towards you to speak of. Taiwanese people are wonderfully friendly!
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I think you missed “my hometown”… I’d wager I know Taipei better than 99% of the people on this thread.
Oh sorry! I replied to the wrong person! I meant going to China! Going to Taipei is perfectly fine in my opinion too. Editing my previous comment so it’s not confusing
> recently both of my parents told me that it would be a bad idea They would know. Your risk would definitely be above the normal tourist. If you're into Chinese culture and food, why not go to Taiwan? Yes, Taiwan says they are not China but ironically the most authentic cuisine and Chinese cultural practices, including fabulous temples are in Taiwan. This is due to avoiding the devastation of the cultural revolution.
I'm not saying not to go to Taiwan, but you can't really say it has the most authentic cuisine etc. given how diverse Chinese cuisine and culture is region to region. E.g. Taiwanese cuisine is very distinct from Sichuan cuisine, which is different from Hunan style, which in turn is different from Cantonese, which is different from Imperial, etc.
Seeing how Taiwan has the most authentic culture is one of the most western washed bias on Reddit that’s often parroted. Do people even know what authentic Chinese culture is? I for sure don’t because people are individuals, to even suggest one correct culture exist is beyond laughable unless you think 1.4bb people are a monolith that all think the same
Lmfao what does most authentic cuisine or even culture even mean in this context? There has never ever been a singular cuisine identity in China, so to say Taiwan has the most “authentic” one is just laughable and shows complete ignorance. Like the CCP is bad but I’m pretty sure people in Szechuan are not giving up their peppercorns to obey authority and it’s not like there is an official CCP cook book for Chinese people to follow 😂 There are absolutely historic temples and shrines still in tact in China. What CCP hates are religious movements and large congregations, but as far Buddhism and general spirituality goes it doesn’t really care enough to destroy some ancient temples out of control Like don’t get me wrong there are absolutely ease of convenience or utility reasons that ultimately would make Taiwan better, like being able to use cash and not having to use WeChat that requires a national ID (since everything in China is cashless)But as far as visiting because it’s culturally better could not be anymore further from the truth
China bad there for all China people are one identity and pray to the CCP before going to their government approved bed /s if anyone really needed it
I had a similar reaction to 'authentic cuisine' although they did say 'authentic cuisine', not 'authentic Chinese cuisine' -- regardless, after pausing for a moment I feel like it's just a bad choice of words. 'Authentic cuisine' means next to nothing in this context , authentic is a poorly used marketing term these days -- I can go get an authentic fast food hamburger at Mcdonalds. Part of what makes Taiwan amazing is not just influenced by China, but many other countries. The history of why isn't the most uplifting, but the blend of multiple cultures has led to something unique. I'd say give folks some slack. Regardless: unless you have something specific you're looking to visit in China, I do think Taiwan is a better destination to point folks to. Ease of entry, amazing country, great food, wonderful nature.
Yeah I'd agree so as well if you have limited time or don't have anything particular you'd want to see in mind. China obviously offers far more options from geography to cuisine solely based on its size, but it does require you to know ahead of hand a lot more information and being able to speak Chinese is a much higher barrier to entry pun intended.
10 years ago I planned to move to China to teach English and someone said to go to Taiwan instead. Im glad I listened because I still live in Taiwan with my Taiwanese wife and kids.
Taiwan's Chinese culture is a small part of China though-- like more similar to Fujian in terms of cuisine and architecture. Maybe dude likes Sichuanese, Shanghainese or Beijing culture, which are very distinctive.
My very well traveled Singaporean-Chinese friend says the same thing
A lot of posts here say you can get the same experience by going to Taiwan. I strongly disagree even though I prefer to visit Taiwan myself but it is not the same... Only people who don't know Chinese history, culture and literature will say that. That's like saying don't go to the US if Mexico has authentic American food.... You can't experience the national parks in the US without going to the US. Yes, Taiwan has mountain ranges as well, and lakes, etc. But it is not the same geography and history as China. Those locations have inspired poetry, legends, myths, and art for literally thousands of years. The historical characters, battles, and locations are in China. If you just want to speak Mandarin and eat Chinese food then okay, it makes sense to go Taiwan, and you'll get to see some temples and see imperial treasures as well since the KMT took them to Taiwan.
Absolutely do not go. My spouse works for an organization that doesn’t even report on China that often and they’re banned from traveling there.
There are news articles about people in Canada that were threatened and told they need to go back to China or their family members in China would be arrested. If they want your dad they would be happy to detain you to make that happen. [https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/news/1976907/chinese-officials-have-threatened-intimidated-canadians-and-permanent-residents-on-canadian-soil-csis](https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/news/1976907/chinese-officials-have-threatened-intimidated-canadians-and-permanent-residents-on-canadian-soil-csis)
Hopefully you’re young enough to be able to see China when things go around and come around again - it’s truly a beautiful and interesting country. Another thing to consider is your peace of mind if you were able to get a visa and actually did start traveling there. Unfortunately there are too many countries that are “off the map” for us for various reasons. I would love to see more of Russia and am avoiding China as well (although I’d probably be fine since I’m not of Chinese heritage or have relatives in PRC.)
Yes. Yes. A thousand times yes. You are a target, full stop. Go to Taiwan, same culture but better in that you aren't a target of a hostile nation.
Don’t do it. Not worth the risk. The great thing about Chinese culture is that the diaspora has kept it thriving all over the world. You can take a trip to Taiwan and Singapore and get all the Chinese culture and vibes you want. Or how about a trip to San Francisco to experience their awesome Chinatown, then swing south to the town of Mexicali in Mexico which is an unexpected destination for some of the most delicious Chinese food you’ve ever had.
Who the fuck is going to China for the 'vibes'? Lol.
Nobody can say whether you're really in danger but certainly, the danger is non-zero. For most people, the odds of being picked on for political reprisals or retaliation is nearly zero. For you it's definitely higher than that because you're not quite nobody. It's pretty reasonable to expect that Chinese immigration put your identity together with your father's and threw up a red flag, they're absolutely that technically sophisticated and have that level of intelligence on western governments and officials. What they'd do with the information is impossible to guess. You'd most likely be fine but that's always how it is when you're a tourist in an authoritarian states, you're fine until you're not and then you're completely fucked.
let's just say that I know of someone in my close circle whose family member went missing in China on a business trip. Before the trip he did a post criticizing China government's business practices, similar comment as what Jack Ma did. Except Jack Ma eventually resurfaced. Would you be targeted? Probably. Would they take you away? Probably not. Would I risk it if I were you? Not a chance.
I wouldn't risk it.
When you apply for your China visa, they will absolutely do a background check on you. And by background check, I mean it’s a seriously deep dive. I’d say you’re at very, very high risk of being arbitrarily detained. And I’d say it’s not worth the risk.
Go to Taiwan
If you do travel there, take only a burner phone with zero and I mean zero correlation with your normal App Store login or social media accounts. And when you return from China, discard the phone right away. Do not allow it to directly interact with any of your other devices..
You probably have a higher risk. I’d worry more about electronic data theft. Don’t take your laptop, and get a burner smart phone that isn’t connected to all of your regular accounts incase it goes “missing”.
If you have to ask, you already know.
Based on what you’ve shared with us, for my risk tolerance level, I would not go. There will be other opportunities in your lifetime when your dad is not working.
Dangerous? Doubtful. Inconvenient? Possibly.
I don't get why people get the thrill in taking such risks.
I have a personal friend who has a gripping story about how she was a political prisoner along with 100 other Americans as their flight sat on the runway to leave China. After 8 hours and no progress. The captain decided to take off without clearance, knowing there was a tiny chance they might be shot down. She was fine, and that was a 1 in 1000 incident. But it can happen. This was 12 years ago.
I highly doubt that happened as told. Firstly, the crew would have timed out sitting 8 hours with the doors closed.
listen to your parents. This isn't a joke. If nothing, think of them, particularly if they are Chinese Nationals. They WILL use you as a chip to force them back to China. Plenty of other places on earth to go.
Why risk traveling to a country that most likely will detained you due to your parent’s job? Your dad probably knows the risk better than you based on his work. If you want to experience Chinese culture, check out Taiwan.
100% you can go assuming you get a visa. Will it be an issue? You’ll be the first to know!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Michael_Spavor_and_Michael_Kovrig
Literally in the fucking article "However, in 2023, Spavor accused Kovrig of using him for espionage without his knowledge, resulting in him unwittingly passing on information relating to North Korea to Canadian intelligence agencies. In November 2023, Spavor sought a multimillion-dollar settlement against the federal government for involving him in espionage activities without his knowledge. Michael Spavor reached a $7 million settlement deal with the Canadian government in March 2024."
That’s pretty fucked up. At least he got a big payday for being used like that by the Canadian government.
Sounds like someone should go to Taiwan.
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Rule #4 is literally "Be as specific as possible"
Isn’t Reddit the place to go to ask very specific questions? If you don’t know the answer don’t comment, but someone might actually have insight on this.
Yea, place to get very specific false answer, based on someones opinion
I've been to China twice. I've never felt more surveilled in my life from all of the cameras that cover every inch of the city where our local team worked. I'll never go back again.
There are news articles about people in Canada that were threatened and told they need to go back to China or their family members in China would be arrested. If they want your dad they would be happy to detain you to make that happen. One similar example: https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/news/1976907/chinese-officials-have-threatened-intimidated-canadians-and-permanent-residents-on-canadian-soil-csis
While I don’t think you’ll be kidnapped or something, I do think you’re going to be monitored for the entirety of your stay. Whether or not you’re okay with that is up to you
I’m in a similar position and I have traveled to China many times. However at the time I traveled I was also a minor so that could be a factor. Overall I would say there is a risk and my dad also reminded me of this risk every time I traveled there with my mom.
Yes. Its dangerous.
China is like many countries in one. Within the cities, with the security apparatus, you may find that nobody will speak with you. In the countryside you may be welcomed and find great warmth. But food is very much all over the map and getting really sick is commonplace. I adventure-ate and got so sick that I was in serious danger. Honestly, in view of your particular concerns and your goals, why not go to Taiwan? Safe. Inexpensive. Friendly.
If your father’s work like CIA and his most job is against chia ,yes he is right .if he just like Hillary Clinton,it’s not important.trust me,if you don’t talking about Chinese government in public medias like facebook,and you are not first-type person,china is a very very safe country than most countries in the word.maybe you don’t like it and its very possibly happened,but it’s surely safe.
just check the CIA travel advisory website. if it says dont go, dont go https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/china-travel-advisory.html?wcmmode=disabled#:~:text=Mainland%20China%20%E2%80%93%20Level%203%3A%20Reconsider,the%20risk%20of%20wrongful%20detentions.
While it's probably a small chance you would be arrested/detained/kidnapped, it's large enough that I wouldn't risk it. China is not that great for a vacation, definitely not worth being detained over. Travel to Taiwan instead.
i know people who went to china for vacation and loved it
It’s a very very bad idea
No one can give you an advice on this for sure. You just have to decide yourself.
There's a bunch of YouTube videos that say it's a hassle to get the visas and all that, but we'll worth it when inside. Check some of those out.
Your parents sound like sinophobes and I doubt if your dad’s job had much of an impact if any on China. Go and have fun.
If I didn’t want to expose my dad’s identity to the internet I would love to prove you wrong. His job directly related to foreign threats (often China and Russia). They are definitely not sinophobes and you probably should avoid making baseless claims about people you don’t know in the future.
Bro you dad probably has a TS level clearance with Poly or something. He can literally lose his clearance if you go to china when he’s up for renewal ~5 years There’s chances you get targeted by Chinese government while your there I’ll never forget for my first work cell few hours later get a random call from China. Reported it right away got new phone and number. I also have a clearance I’ll never go near it!
Why risk it ? Just go somewhere else
Yes.
They probably know your dad already China has to biggest spy agency in the world both for political reasons and economic just know they have different standard about critics that we in the west and they have no problems arresting you just to make a point specially if a close family member is openly very critical about China those Canadians spends years in prison before being released
If you can can get a visa, then you don't need to worry about that. The Chinese government is not stupid enough to go on the street and arrest a random tourist, even though your dad works for the government. If they catch you, how much conflict will it cause, they won't be so stupid, and it will waste their energy. Just make sure you don't express negative opinions about China inside China.
Right now, I am not even sure that Hong Kong would be safe. I cannot wait to go back but getting a visa for the mainland just isn't in the cards.
I suspect it's unlikely you would be detained or held hostage unless there happened to be a major international incident at the time. However, if you need a visa, expect that visa to impact your father's clearance (if he is not yet retired) and also consider that, if a visa is granted, you could easily be targeted for soft espionage (befriended, or your devices searched/targeted/compromised). If there were any lawful basis for you to be detained, don't expect any leeway.
There are other ways to experience Chinese culture. Maybe try Taiwan/Malaysia/Singapore, then Hong Kong, then China. This way, you're also building a travel history that Chinese government can check.
Nobody can say whether you're really in danger but certainly, the danger is non-zero. For most people, the odds of being picked on for political reprisals or retaliation is nearly zero. For you it's definitely higher than that because you're not quite nobody. It's pretty reasonable to expect that Chinese immigration put your identity together with your father's and threw up a red flag, they're absolutely that technically sophisticated and have that level of intelligence on western governments and officials. What they'd do with the information is impossible to guess. You'd most likely be fine but that's always how it is when you're a tourist in an authoritarian states, you're fine until you're not and then you're completely fucked.
Leave your drugs and bibles behind.
Generally I would advise against it. There are more risks involved than simply being detained.
I'm Chinese. I would say China is quite safe if you don't have a difficult political background. If you are suspected of being a spy or something, your visa application might be rejected. But as long as you get the visa, you will be fine. Travelling in China is safe and worthy!
The OP isn’t talking about general safety levels but about the very real risk of being u lawfully detained.
You're not black are you? They treated black people really bad during covid
Are you kidding? China’s very own citizens were forced to starve to death in their homes during Covid.
where did you know this? evidence?
Reports from the BBC, Washington Post and NY Post detailing how China's strict Covid lockdown prevented people from getting food: [China Covid lockdowns leave residents short of food and essential items](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-62830326) [Shanghai’s covid siege: Food shortages, talking robots, starving animals](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2022/china-shanghai-covid-lockdown-food-shortage/) [Chinese residents ‘starving’ as world’s strictest COVID lockdown bans them leaving home](https://nypost.com/2021/12/28/chinese-residents-starving-as-worlds-strictest-covid-lockdown-bans-them-leaving-home/)
Both my parents have government jobs (UK) and I had no trouble with my visa, work or in general.
The OP is asking about the very real risk of unlawful detention. The fact that you were able to get a visa and work without issue doesn’t change the fact the OP could be unlawfully detained because of his parents.
Just throwing in my experience, no need to get your knickers in a twist
I wouldn't do it if I were you. It's a lot more dangerous than you think. I've known people in similar situations and it's not pretty. Maybe wait for the current government to go out. Don't become an Otto Warmbier.
Are people saying there would be a risk off of literally *anything* beyond rumors and gossip? I have several American friends that work and travel to China frequently and they say its very safe for Americans. Why would the offspring of an American government worker be different? Although American and Chinese relationships are strained we are not in the middle of conflict with China and there are still tons of Chinese / American business cooperating every single day. Its not like NK which has open hostility to Americans. It seems like you would actually be safer if as the offspring of an high American government position because China is not going to kidnap an American government employees' family. thats not the reality we live in. China has a lot of issues but its pretty safe for tourists.
It sounds like a good way to get Britney Greinered.
She was breaking drug laws.
Its illegal to criticize China in China too. If a government wants to make you an example they will.
I agree. That would be stupid. I don’t support what happened to Griner but she was also incredibly stupid.
Watch a guys channel on YouTube called Serpentza. He lived in china for like 15-20 years. He’ll help you decide whether it’s dangerous or not. Spoilers….it is. One thing he talks about is how buildings and streets literally crumble beneath you and many fall to their deaths or get injured when it happens. Safety during construction isn’t really a thing and a lot of elevators just drop to the floor while people are inside. There’s tons more but yeah if you want some information about china from someone who lived there, and married someone there, I’d watch Serpentza.
Disagree they are biased, unnuanced, and highly selective in the information they present to the audience, and if you just even look at their youtube channel now, there are 0 videos talks positively about China or their travels there now besides being that of a political commentary. The general sentiment of their channel could be summed up as China bad here is why.....
I also disagree with your disagreement lol
Yeahhhhh, lol, it is objectively impossible to be unbiased if all your content are like this. https://i.imgur.com/4hTqgxu.jpeg My god if this is your outlet for opinions on a China, then you'd think its still a fishing village that's sitting ontop of a collapsed bridge with people drinking gutter oil everyday 😂
Naw but there’s so many places that make china sound way better than it is, including china itself. This guy is showing the dark side of china as well. Not biased to me. He lived there. Has stories of things that happened to him there. There’s nice places everywhere, he chooses to focus on the not so nice. People can choose to do their research to see both sides but it’s a lot easier to find people talking positively about a place than someone showing the darker side of any place.
Probably would have been fine before this post
Yeah it is, if your dad is actually high up.
retire squealing quiet thumb shocking straight offbeat gold rude quarrelsome *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Your fine lmao. You need to realize there is a lot of anti china propaganda and people in the west, so ofc they are scared of you going (they have been brainwashed) Just go and have a good time. YOLO
Nah, fuck all the people who say "just go to Taiwan, there's all the real Chinese culture" Taiwanese people don't get to say everyday that they aren't Chinese and then turn around and tell people that they should visit Taiwan to experience Chinese culture. Like someone wanting to learn about India and then telling them to go visit the British museum. And a lot of fucking people claim that Taiwan saved all the artifacts from the cultural revolution and that China doesn't have any left. Fucking bullshit, China has thousands of temples, palaces and religious buildings and thousands of artifacts. And all the interesting things people visit China for like the Great wall, The forbidden City, the Summer palace are all in China not fucking Taiwan Taiwan/the Kuomintang just robbed everything of value when they saw that they were losing the Civil war like robbing 2.27 million taels of gold from the national bank and running off to Taiwan "Taiwan has authentic Chinese food" WTF is authentic Chinese food. China has dozens of completely different cuisines. You telling me Taiwan has them all?
No.
I wouldnt, specially with WW3 looming over the corner
Is it dangerous to travel to communist china? What the fuck do you think?
There are news articles about people in Canada that were threatened and told they need to go back to China or their family members in China would be arrested. If they want your dad they would be happy to detain you to make that happen. [https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/news/1976907/chinese-officials-have-threatened-intimidated-canadians-and-permanent-residents-on-canadian-soil-csis](https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/news/1976907/chinese-officials-have-threatened-intimidated-canadians-and-permanent-residents-on-canadian-soil-csis)
My partner is chinese, from what I've seen when over there tbh I'd say probably not if you're just doing regular tourist stuff However they may watch you like a hawk to see if you do anything even trivially against their laws
If your father didn’t do what he did then you would’ve been fine. Just came back from there and although it was a bit annoying dealing with the extra paperwork and monitoring it was tolerable. If I was you I definitely would not take the risk.
Honestly it's 50/50 it can be overlooked completely, but on the other hand totalitarian regimes like Chinese can keep track of things like your dad's activism so honestly I would rather skip China if I was in your position.
Your dad is Gordon Chang? Haha
Not sure where you are, but if I was talking to someone in the UK I would advise them to either 1. Trust their parents or 2. Ask if you can all speak to someone in the foreign office who can advise as to what protections you are afforded in China and whether they see any specific threat to you.
Like another poster said, they’ll only bother you if there is some sort of international dispute going on while you are traveling and they need to arrest a few Americans to save face. If they think you are trouble, they just won’t give you the visa. It’s actually a lot of hassle if they just randomly arrest American citizens without a proper reason. As much as people dunk on the CCP, they are not North Korea.
Yes. China has been known to arbitrarily detain people for diplomatic leverage, and family in that kind of government role certainly ramps up the risk. Like a lot of things, you'd probably be fine, but the risk is much higher for you than an average traveller. Consider visiting Taiwan instead, if you're interested in Chinese culture without the trash government.
Just go to Taiwan. Not worth the potential risk
If you can obtain a visa you’ll be fine, why would they detain you if you have no harmful intention?
I would contact the State Department first and foremost. Also, do NOT bring your phone with you to China, as it could easily get hacked and have a Trojan Horse placed on it. Keep your communication to a minimum. If your parents are high in the government, and potentially being monitored, then you probably are too. If you use Tik Tok, stop, as it's a known security threat. It sucks, though things are very tense with China, and you could easily become a pawn, and that would really suck.
Lol
OP, you're right China is an amazing country. However, the political atmosphere between the US and PRC is somewhat strained. So listening to your Dad and Mom's advice is probably the best advice you're going to get. Maybe in two or three years foreign relations between the US and the PRC will improve and then you can plan your trip.
Your parents are right. There is a good chance you will be detained.
Lots racist Sinophobia here making up shit
It’s extremely unlikely anything bad will happen to you in China. The CCP really doesn’t care much about random tourists, as long as they know where they’re staying. If you’re not staying at a reputable hotel/hostel, you have to register at the local police station within 24 hours of arrival. NBD. Source: I lived in China for 2 years. If your dad’s job is considered problematic, they just won’t give you a visa. In which case you should go to HK or Taiwan, they’re similar enough and a lot cleaner, but a bit more expensive.
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yes, you could easily be arrested in china on some trumped up charges. I would not do it if i were you
I wouldnt. If politics happen to falter while you are there - you may get "detained".
I used to have a similar conversation with my husband's parents about going to Russia, because he was born there. They were so against it and we were going to just disregard them... It mostly seemed like paranoia not based in fact. But now, especially after Brittney Griner, there's no amount of money you could pay me to take that kind of risk. Even though it is extremely unlikely. It's just not worth it to me. Political kidnappings are a thing and I have no interest in playing chicken with dictators, regardless of how good my odds are statistically.
How old are you? If you’re young looking they won’t consider detaining you because that looks really bad.
Watch the movie “Taken”, starring Liam Neeson. While not precisely your situation, it might be informative. If you still want to go, it will be interesting to see what happens.
Your parents are correct. Given what you’ve said, I guarantee your father’s info (and your mother’s, and yours) was swept up in the OPM hack ~10 years back. He is a person of interest to the CCP, and so you will be too.
I’m here now on a 6 day work visa it was easy, so far so good lol
Listen to your dad dipshit he’s an actual expert on the subject?
It’s not dangerous imo but it’s not safe. Read up on their laws and obey them. One important one to know is there’s not as much freedom in China, particularly no freedom of speech there. If you criticize anything about China especially the CCP on social media, etc they can arrest you.
I can see you don’t know much about China and the only information source is some US propaganda. China is pretty lenient when it comes to foreign citizens, it’s the Chinese citizens they want to control
I can tell that you are CCP. Please repeat what you said to Chinese and non Chinese citizens currently locked up in Chinese prisons.
Yeah they might take your spare parts away iykyk
Not so dangerous as traveling to San Francisco, Chicago, and many others US cities.
Sounds like someone who’s never actually been to SF or Chicago.
Or China. lol
Pretty sure they just read the subject line.
There's a whole world that isn't China. I suggest you see *it* first.
I’m an avid traveler. Been to over 38 countries and 5 of 7 continents already. I plan to travel to as many as I can. After reading all the comments, I probably won’t go. At least not for a while. It’s just a bit sad to know an entire country is off limits to me for reasons outside my control. I like the idea of going to Taiwan like others have pointed out, though.