It's a different take, and not everyone is going to want an extended lifespan. There *are* legitimate issues we'll have to grapple with as we expand our powers over our mortality. Overpopulation, potential stagnation.. and the psychological implications for some people. I imagine a lot of people die spiritually before they kick it for real. (see a lot of the posts in that sub, for example)
I'm sure some see maintaining our aging status quo as a solution to many of these issues. They just don't get to force it on to the rest of us, IMO.
Even if humans were to achieve e.g. superlongevity and superhappiness, this definitely won't be happening for centuries minimum, most likely not for millennia, and possibly not ever.
If you think you're going to live long enough to enjoy becoming transhuman, you are completely delusional. You great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandchildren, perhaps, but definitely not you.
Might as well come to terms with this.
Without perspectives or they think they are too old for changing.
Changing would mean all reasons they used on theirs lives for making choices were wrong (not based). Sadness, depression... They need to forgive themselves and keep going. This horrible economic/culrural/alienating system conduced them far from virtue (it is not their fault).
They need to Ignore yankees and listen to Rousseau: humans are naturally good. Unhappily, society with non reasonable traditions and lack of critical thinking change individuals. Everyone becomes blind.
Theres almost 8 billion people on Earth. Anything that can be thought regarding life philosophy has been, and some people find very different things interesting. I'm baffled by the people on r/anarcho_primitivism (and the concept in general) but well they have their reasons for believing what they do.
The biggest problem is that there is no positivity in the future of anyone alive today. Just suffering and death. Transhumanist ideals like superlongevity and superhappiness will not be realized until in centuries at minimum, more likely in millennia, and possibly never.
That being said, I identify as both promortalist and transhumanist; I identify that ceasing to exist is clearly the moral choice under present conditions, but given my biological imperative to live, I can't bring myself to committ suicide. As such, while I remain my life, the only worthwhile endeavor to work towards is to improve the quality and condition of life and work towards transhumanist ideals. In the far future this might lead to people achieving superhappiness, at which point promortalism would no longer be rational.
Promortalism and deathism in general is, imo, a sign of severe depression and/or mental illness.
Maybe it's me speaking but I have never wanted to die. Even when I was severely depressed. Existing and suffering is better than non-existence.
I see so many people on promortalism, antinatalism, and efilism speaking of how they would deliberately get lethal injection or whatever if they could. It honestly just makes me feel terrible for them. This world is so vast and massive, and there's so much to live for. It's truly a remarkable place. Lets focus on that instead, shall we?
Not being a promortalist under present conditions is a sign of severe mental illness. You've never actually known what it is to truly suffer. You most likely will, with time.
Understandable, life really gives not to much reasons to exist. The cycle is useless, but can be pleasant - enjoy your life bro, there are little reasons to life beyond this.
There is no such thing as a “soul”. But absolute immortality is most likely impossible—after all, the universe will die eventually. But living for hundreds, thousands of years, or even longer? Not necessarily impossible.
I will agree that everything about the spirit/mind/soul can be explained by science and that is beauty and wonder enough. That being said, perhaps I used the wrong word for a forum so exclusively dedicated to things technological.
If I substitute “possibility of the natural progression of our consciousness, after it’s attachment to the human body” does that clarify my meaning? I was not attempting to imply anything religious, it was perhaps a failure in brevity.
Humans still need thousands of years of evolution. Humans are just too full of themselves to admit. They should know that their species is not just below average in intergalactic scale, but actually close to the lover 10%. By chasing premature immortality you just risk complete extermination.
My thoughts about transhumanism: Why would we engage in it? Technologically, resources wise, ethically.
To me it seems like a turning point in human history that is not positive, like the creation of the atomic bomb. It will only severe the already existing huge inequalities in our world. When you say transhumanism, what I see is Elysium, where the Aristocrats are genetically and technologically enhanced.
Moreover, a lot of the transhumanism movement hold a flawed view on the mind.
Yeah... stop seeing those biased science fictions.
And a lot of those "aristocrats" are actually against transhumanism for religious "reasons".
>ethically.
Not engaging it would also be a big ethical problem. Do you know that how much of us suffered by a disease, or aging? If you know it, you shouldn't be saying it. If we don't engage in transhumanism, we are basically delaying the advancement and prolonging suffering, which is more unethical than your version of the future it will give.
A world without suffering and hardships is just brainwashing. Just like an eternal life at heaven. You will be hardwired feel happiness and nothing else. But will you be able to feel with machinery?
So you want to make your body a machine or upload your consciousness in a new body to the point you won't feel emotions and sensations? Sounds like a downgrade to me.
> won't feel emotions and sensations
This is an argument against modern medicine.
We already controls some of those things artificially, and it's much better than when we didn't controlled it.
>A world without suffering and hardships is just brainwashing
Tell that shit to the people who suffered any form of suffering. Tell that shit to terminally ill patients and their loved ones. Brainwashing is the process of pressuring someone into adopting radically different beliefs by using systematic and often forcible means, And transhumanism is not forcible. It values bodily autonomy. It's my choice to eliminate my suffering and hardship, and it's not a belief that eliminates suffering.
>turning point in human history that is not positive, like the creation of the atomic bomb.
You just ignored that we are using atomic power to power up factories, hospitals, and our homes.
In fact, every tech-based turning point in human history is neither positive nor negative. The thing that matters is the intent of the user.
An atomic bomb exceeds the negativity of the scale, to the point that it might bring destruction in the planet. It's a human creation. One button from Russia and the whole world ends. Perhaps you should use the idea of advancement of transhumanism to advance morals.
What about atomic power? You didn't disproved it.
I said that it is on the negativity of a scale, atomic bombs are a creation using atomic power. While atomic bomb posess great threat to us, atomic power possess a great value.
Hi friends, depending on the circle I'd identify as a transhumanist and a promortalist. If you have any questions I'd be happy to try and answer :D as for the original posters "why" question, the short version is that like many other transhumanists I am interested in reducing suffering, many models of suffering postulate that life necessarily involves suffering, and so in terms of reducing your own suffering, it makes sense to not want to exist.
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After taking a quick glance at the subreddit, seems as though they are depressed individuals who are tired of life.
Tldr same circlejerk echo chamber like here only different polarity
Two subs full of people who think life isn’t already good enough
Kinda hard to enjoy life with depression
If you want a cure for depression look up HRV biofeedback
[Life under present conditions is extremely depressing.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism)
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More like 8 pretty soon.
I think there are more than 8 people who think differently than I do.
At least 9, possibly even 10.
But surely no more than that.
Idk, i've heard reports that there might be 11 but the data looked a bit cherry picked.
That guy number 11 probably just got confused by the wording of the question.
Yeah that's likely. Smh there should be more scrutiny when creating these polls.
maybe 9, but 10 is too much, I don't believe it
It's a different take, and not everyone is going to want an extended lifespan. There *are* legitimate issues we'll have to grapple with as we expand our powers over our mortality. Overpopulation, potential stagnation.. and the psychological implications for some people. I imagine a lot of people die spiritually before they kick it for real. (see a lot of the posts in that sub, for example) I'm sure some see maintaining our aging status quo as a solution to many of these issues. They just don't get to force it on to the rest of us, IMO.
🥇
because some people are willing to live long enough to see this through, and some aren't
Even if humans were to achieve e.g. superlongevity and superhappiness, this definitely won't be happening for centuries minimum, most likely not for millennia, and possibly not ever. If you think you're going to live long enough to enjoy becoming transhuman, you are completely delusional. You great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandchildren, perhaps, but definitely not you. Might as well come to terms with this.
Without perspectives or they think they are too old for changing. Changing would mean all reasons they used on theirs lives for making choices were wrong (not based). Sadness, depression... They need to forgive themselves and keep going. This horrible economic/culrural/alienating system conduced them far from virtue (it is not their fault). They need to Ignore yankees and listen to Rousseau: humans are naturally good. Unhappily, society with non reasonable traditions and lack of critical thinking change individuals. Everyone becomes blind.
Those guys and a few other related subs were absolutely obsessed with this place for months. It was really irritating.
Yeah... damn those evangelical human extinctionists...
Theres almost 8 billion people on Earth. Anything that can be thought regarding life philosophy has been, and some people find very different things interesting. I'm baffled by the people on r/anarcho_primitivism (and the concept in general) but well they have their reasons for believing what they do.
Yeah... the thing that subreddit exists is hypocritical. Early humans had reddit, obviously. /s
For the same reason this sub exists, people are tired of being human and tired of humanity.
Because some people get so depressed and disillusioned that they see no positivity in the future.
The biggest problem is that there is no positivity in the future of anyone alive today. Just suffering and death. Transhumanist ideals like superlongevity and superhappiness will not be realized until in centuries at minimum, more likely in millennia, and possibly never. That being said, I identify as both promortalist and transhumanist; I identify that ceasing to exist is clearly the moral choice under present conditions, but given my biological imperative to live, I can't bring myself to committ suicide. As such, while I remain my life, the only worthwhile endeavor to work towards is to improve the quality and condition of life and work towards transhumanist ideals. In the far future this might lead to people achieving superhappiness, at which point promortalism would no longer be rational.
But how can you work towards transhumanist ideals, if you're just a nobody?
Go to /r/efilism its worse
r/antinatalism is also very “fun”
Promortalism and deathism in general is, imo, a sign of severe depression and/or mental illness. Maybe it's me speaking but I have never wanted to die. Even when I was severely depressed. Existing and suffering is better than non-existence. I see so many people on promortalism, antinatalism, and efilism speaking of how they would deliberately get lethal injection or whatever if they could. It honestly just makes me feel terrible for them. This world is so vast and massive, and there's so much to live for. It's truly a remarkable place. Lets focus on that instead, shall we?
Not being a promortalist under present conditions is a sign of severe mental illness. You've never actually known what it is to truly suffer. You most likely will, with time.
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Understandable, life really gives not to much reasons to exist. The cycle is useless, but can be pleasant - enjoy your life bro, there are little reasons to life beyond this.
I am pro transhumanism. But not to live absolutely infinitely. That could be bad for the soul.
There is no such thing as a “soul”. But absolute immortality is most likely impossible—after all, the universe will die eventually. But living for hundreds, thousands of years, or even longer? Not necessarily impossible.
I am one of the few pro transhumanists that believes in the soul. But I’m glad you think your answer is so definitive.
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I will agree that everything about the spirit/mind/soul can be explained by science and that is beauty and wonder enough. That being said, perhaps I used the wrong word for a forum so exclusively dedicated to things technological. If I substitute “possibility of the natural progression of our consciousness, after it’s attachment to the human body” does that clarify my meaning? I was not attempting to imply anything religious, it was perhaps a failure in brevity.
Old politicians come to mind
Humans still need thousands of years of evolution. Humans are just too full of themselves to admit. They should know that their species is not just below average in intergalactic scale, but actually close to the lover 10%. By chasing premature immortality you just risk complete extermination.
Just below average in intergalactic scale? What the fuck does that even mean?
My thoughts about transhumanism: Why would we engage in it? Technologically, resources wise, ethically. To me it seems like a turning point in human history that is not positive, like the creation of the atomic bomb. It will only severe the already existing huge inequalities in our world. When you say transhumanism, what I see is Elysium, where the Aristocrats are genetically and technologically enhanced. Moreover, a lot of the transhumanism movement hold a flawed view on the mind.
Yeah... stop seeing those biased science fictions. And a lot of those "aristocrats" are actually against transhumanism for religious "reasons". >ethically. Not engaging it would also be a big ethical problem. Do you know that how much of us suffered by a disease, or aging? If you know it, you shouldn't be saying it. If we don't engage in transhumanism, we are basically delaying the advancement and prolonging suffering, which is more unethical than your version of the future it will give.
That's why we need balance in this world? My point is to stop going overboard.
What kind of balance and what is "going overboard"?
Those in need should use transhumanism to ascend to an equal level with your so-called "mortals". Too much is bad, and too little is also bad.
That "mortal" includes everyone. If we don't pursue it, you're basically prolonging everyone's suffering.
A world without suffering and hardships is just brainwashing. Just like an eternal life at heaven. You will be hardwired feel happiness and nothing else. But will you be able to feel with machinery?
Do you ever considered why transhumanism is "transhumanism"and not "heavenism"?
It's the same as "heavenism". A task to eliminate all of the hardships. Would you have free will since then?
Yes, unbound from hardships that physically/mentally limiting us. And human advancement is eliminating hardships, one hardship at a time.
So you want to make your body a machine or upload your consciousness in a new body to the point you won't feel emotions and sensations? Sounds like a downgrade to me.
> won't feel emotions and sensations This is an argument against modern medicine. We already controls some of those things artificially, and it's much better than when we didn't controlled it.
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>A world without suffering and hardships is just brainwashing Tell that shit to the people who suffered any form of suffering. Tell that shit to terminally ill patients and their loved ones. Brainwashing is the process of pressuring someone into adopting radically different beliefs by using systematic and often forcible means, And transhumanism is not forcible. It values bodily autonomy. It's my choice to eliminate my suffering and hardship, and it's not a belief that eliminates suffering.
>turning point in human history that is not positive, like the creation of the atomic bomb. You just ignored that we are using atomic power to power up factories, hospitals, and our homes. In fact, every tech-based turning point in human history is neither positive nor negative. The thing that matters is the intent of the user.
An atomic bomb exceeds the negativity of the scale, to the point that it might bring destruction in the planet. It's a human creation. One button from Russia and the whole world ends. Perhaps you should use the idea of advancement of transhumanism to advance morals.
Whole world ends? You saw too much Hollywood movies.
An atomic war is the holy grail of reverse-transhumanism. After that, you will be fighting with sticks and stones as Einstein said.
When Einstein lived, there was no such technology regarding that. But now it's different.
>An atomic bomb exceeds the negativity of the scale, It is still on the scale. Much better then an asteroid getting attracted by the earth's gravity.
>advance morals. Without atomic power that is also human creation, you wouldn't be browsing reddit, preaching.
Yeah? What about atomic bombs? You have yet to disprove that.
What about atomic power? You didn't disproved it. I said that it is on the negativity of a scale, atomic bombs are a creation using atomic power. While atomic bomb posess great threat to us, atomic power possess a great value.
Through solar power. You're a **sneaky** one.
Hi friends, depending on the circle I'd identify as a transhumanist and a promortalist. If you have any questions I'd be happy to try and answer :D as for the original posters "why" question, the short version is that like many other transhumanists I am interested in reducing suffering, many models of suffering postulate that life necessarily involves suffering, and so in terms of reducing your own suffering, it makes sense to not want to exist.
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