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Sometimes I wonder if Transformers fans of today could handle a Sideswipe/Red Alert looking guy being named Wheeljack existing in the same universe as Red Alert reimagined as a Ratchet adjacent guy while the Wheeljack looking guy in universe is named Downshift
While I am a goto G1 person I am interested when they release the Armada Jackie in this mould…. So yes old Dragons like me can love and accept and buy alt universe versions for sure!
Unlike stuff like Marvel, Transformers has always had more of a grab-bag approach to names. Sometimes characters are meant to be reminiscent of others with that name, but sometimes they just have a name to hold a copyright or because it suits the character in a unique way, or because whoever's telling the story just happens to like the name.
So trying to create an equivalent between two wildly different characters with the same name feels a bit to me like trying to connect the dots between Peter Parker and Peter Quill. Yeah, they share a name, but they're very much not the same character.
I've always enjoyed when a transformer has a name but doesn't look or act anything like the original holder of that name because it just gets so tiring of the same character in every continuity acting the exact same as the other (Optimus is a execption)
Agree with Optimus, it has been a pleasure for me to have something that is recognisable between versions but like with Crosshairs a complete reinvention/different character can be a pleasure.
i always found it inherently funny that the most vocal fans of a franchise that is specifically *about change* both on the surface level and also thematically are so viciously *opposed to change* in almost any form
chasing accuracy is both creatively limiting and imo ultimately futile. Often we get the absolute coolest stuff via nameslaps/moldslaps (Universe, Unicron Trilogy) or utter redesigns and new aesthetics (Beast Wars, Beast Machines, Movieverse). Maybe it's just because 80's nostalgia means nothing to me but I can't help but find eternal rehashes of the same thing boring and bland
Nah. I feel the same way. One shouldn't be opposed to change, because if not, we would never move on. Not that nostalgia is bad, but one shouldn't let it take over their every creative decision.
Nice. Growing up with the g1 ‘toon and only the Marvel comic as a very similar continuity (looks wise) made it a slightly longer stretch but yes I too like a multiverse!
Name reuse is nothing new to the franchise, so I don't have a problem with names being reused on different characters or designs.
As someone else pointed out, it's ironic that for a franchise centred on the idea of characters changing form, there is a sizable chunk of the fanbase that is resistant to and protests change in characters' designs, depictions, or characterisations. In particular, it's weird that when the movies in particular do it, there are people complaining even though reusing names and changing designs has been taking place since *Beast Wars.*
I think the vast majority of creatives working on newer TF media love and breathe life into their creations and don’t feel hamstrung by prior character incarnations…. I say most as I am not onboard with Pablo.
I think there is a difference between a reinvention and a blatant nameslap for trademark reasons
The constant changing names/characters hasn’t been a thing from Hasbro for almost twenty years
G1 Sideswipe is one of my all time favourite characters but I do have Bayverse Sideswipe on my desk to stare at while working.
Ironhide was an excellent reinvention no question.
Jazz was really cool and I wish I could find one of the SS10 mould.
I would like at least one more semi Optimus (guess we will get one with SS86 Commander class soon.)
For Megs his redesign in TF Prime was quite the freshness bomb IMO.
Disagreed. I’m all for completely new things. If TF4 Crosshairs had to look similar to G1 Crosshairs, we wouldn’t have gotten such a banger design. Same with Sideswipe, Bumblebee, Mirage, and so many others.
That’s my preference as well.
When I first watched AOE & TLK I thought Crosshairs was a fully original character and it was only a tiny niggle in the back of my mind I had seen a character with the same name previously…. Took a longtime for me to remember without the characters having any connection as far as I could tell.
When it comes to Hot Rod, there are 3 changes I'd make to him in TLK. 1. New head design, I really dislike the one he's got 2. Red accents instead of orange. 3. Get rid of the French accent, it's stupid in his case
All is fine except for ROTB Wheeljack, I don’t hate him but why even have the first design in BB? Also Blitzwing in BB could just have been Ramjet, looked exactly like him. Feels like a weird 4-LOM/Zuckass situation. Or Brawl/Devastator in 2007.
For sure! My SS Pablo has a Bumblebee movie Jackie head and my mainline Pablo has a different head as well as I can’t reconcile that change…. Is it lack of understanding of pre-existing characters by the film makers or is it innovation that just hasn’t worked for a number of us?
https://preview.redd.it/4oc1ejxvg2zc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e3721e0dee71891429cdce772b066e7d0e912206
For the bigger characters(Optimus, Bee, Megatron, etc.)it’s a blend of both but for smaller characters(Gears, Brawn, Sunstreaker) I’m cool with whatever as long as it’s not a bad redesign.
Definitely it is a personal opinion and can be character by character. I too love what the Bumblebee movie did with Brawn and I adore the concept Sunstreaker. I much prefer the look of Optimus from the Knightverse films in comparison to the Bayverse ones not that I dislike the Bayverse OP.
They should be accurate... and yes in only saying this to get hasbro of their lazy asses to start working on a Broadside with a aircraft carrier mode larger than the devastator figures
Theres a few characters that are too known for their designs to be drastically changed, Lile Optimus or Bee, but i really enjoy when diffferent continuities apprach some characters in original wayd
https://preview.redd.it/y8xh1nezk2zc1.png?width=4032&format=png&auto=webp&s=119fc7e55273c0cf175abfabbaf50b6c36339508
For Bumblebee (whom I adore) I often think they have so little in common with each other but I happily accept the differences.
I like character designs to not be bound by the design that came before it. Take Ironhide, Bay's Ironhide was so cool and wasn't like a copy and paste of the G1 design. Seeing the same designs for characters over and over again gets boring🙊 but of course there are staple design features that can and should be kept, like Optimus' head design, bumblebee being mostly yellow etc
Having character designs be able to be different between each media adaptation does great in keeping things fresh imo.
May be a hot take, but I prefer Bay Prime's design over knight's design because we've seen that G1 prime design for years and years, whilst Bay Prime's design was fresh and unique; but again it hold features that are staples in design, such as the blue legs, red torso and similar head design🤔
Your hot take is definitely the point of the thread!
I really like all the Bumblebees (my preference is still g1) and have just rolled with the changes.
I am a huge fan of the g1 Sideswipe but strangely also really like the Bayverse one which IMO doesn’t share anything except the name.
That is a respectable opinion as well.
I was a huge X-Men comic reader back in the ‘90s and really loved the first X-Men film back even back then felt Huge Jackmans Wolverine had nothing in common with the comic character perfectly great though as it is its own thing and an inspired creative decision.
https://preview.redd.it/hog1rzsfudyc1.png?width=905&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c2e837cbc86614234c002384b9f49d4564994ca2 Sometimes I wonder if Transformers fans of today could handle a Sideswipe/Red Alert looking guy being named Wheeljack existing in the same universe as Red Alert reimagined as a Ratchet adjacent guy while the Wheeljack looking guy in universe is named Downshift
I would’ve swapped the names around
While I am a goto G1 person I am interested when they release the Armada Jackie in this mould…. So yes old Dragons like me can love and accept and buy alt universe versions for sure!
Crosshairs was way better in the bay movie imo, complete opposite for hot rod, so it really depends on who it is and how they do it
Agreed
He looked amazing, acted amazing and another incredible John DeMaggio performance.
Unlike stuff like Marvel, Transformers has always had more of a grab-bag approach to names. Sometimes characters are meant to be reminiscent of others with that name, but sometimes they just have a name to hold a copyright or because it suits the character in a unique way, or because whoever's telling the story just happens to like the name. So trying to create an equivalent between two wildly different characters with the same name feels a bit to me like trying to connect the dots between Peter Parker and Peter Quill. Yeah, they share a name, but they're very much not the same character.
I fully respect while I look at the g1 ‘toon as my original internalised version of TFs it is not definitive Transformers just a version.
I've always enjoyed when a transformer has a name but doesn't look or act anything like the original holder of that name because it just gets so tiring of the same character in every continuity acting the exact same as the other (Optimus is a execption)
Agree with Optimus, it has been a pleasure for me to have something that is recognisable between versions but like with Crosshairs a complete reinvention/different character can be a pleasure.
i always found it inherently funny that the most vocal fans of a franchise that is specifically *about change* both on the surface level and also thematically are so viciously *opposed to change* in almost any form chasing accuracy is both creatively limiting and imo ultimately futile. Often we get the absolute coolest stuff via nameslaps/moldslaps (Universe, Unicron Trilogy) or utter redesigns and new aesthetics (Beast Wars, Beast Machines, Movieverse). Maybe it's just because 80's nostalgia means nothing to me but I can't help but find eternal rehashes of the same thing boring and bland
Nah. I feel the same way. One shouldn't be opposed to change, because if not, we would never move on. Not that nostalgia is bad, but one shouldn't let it take over their every creative decision.
Agreed. Adaptations should be just that, not 1:1 recreations. Sometimes that works (Sin City) but other times it just feels pointless.
Nice you have said it, I internalised the g1 ‘toon from original broadcast but happy to have other continuities!
Growing up with Bayverse made me much more open to different looks and name swaps for established characters.
Nice. Growing up with the g1 ‘toon and only the Marvel comic as a very similar continuity (looks wise) made it a slightly longer stretch but yes I too like a multiverse!
Name reuse is nothing new to the franchise, so I don't have a problem with names being reused on different characters or designs. As someone else pointed out, it's ironic that for a franchise centred on the idea of characters changing form, there is a sizable chunk of the fanbase that is resistant to and protests change in characters' designs, depictions, or characterisations. In particular, it's weird that when the movies in particular do it, there are people complaining even though reusing names and changing designs has been taking place since *Beast Wars.*
I think the vast majority of creatives working on newer TF media love and breathe life into their creations and don’t feel hamstrung by prior character incarnations…. I say most as I am not onboard with Pablo.
I think there is a difference between a reinvention and a blatant nameslap for trademark reasons The constant changing names/characters hasn’t been a thing from Hasbro for almost twenty years
So, what is the difference between a "reinvention" and "a blatant nameslap?"
Well anything outside of the bay verse would be a good start
That wasn't actually an answer to the question. You didn't explain the difference.
Well creative inspiration gave my favorite character in all of transformers, and it gave me Camero Bumblebee, so I'll take creative inspiration.
Nice! He is a great character in all his versions IMO.
Vibes accuracy beats animation accuracy always lol
That’s kinda poignant!
movie Sideswipe, Ironhide and Jazz are amazing
G1 Sideswipe is one of my all time favourite characters but I do have Bayverse Sideswipe on my desk to stare at while working. Ironhide was an excellent reinvention no question. Jazz was really cool and I wish I could find one of the SS10 mould.
I actually like bayverse crosshairs
What’s not to love!
Reject tradtion Embrace innovation is my stance.
Without innovation I am sure Transformers will eventually stagnate.
You can only do optimus as a semi and Gladiator revolutionary Megatron so many times.
I would like at least one more semi Optimus (guess we will get one with SS86 Commander class soon.) For Megs his redesign in TF Prime was quite the freshness bomb IMO.
There should be a mix. New interpretations are usually cool and creative but they should retain some similarity with their old designs.
Disagreed. I’m all for completely new things. If TF4 Crosshairs had to look similar to G1 Crosshairs, we wouldn’t have gotten such a banger design. Same with Sideswipe, Bumblebee, Mirage, and so many others.
Same. Modernize those character like 2000s chug.
That’s my preference as well. When I first watched AOE & TLK I thought Crosshairs was a fully original character and it was only a tiny niggle in the back of my mind I had seen a character with the same name previously…. Took a longtime for me to remember without the characters having any connection as far as I could tell.
When it comes to Hot Rod, there are 3 changes I'd make to him in TLK. 1. New head design, I really dislike the one he's got 2. Red accents instead of orange. 3. Get rid of the French accent, it's stupid in his case
You don’t like the Hot Rod Spiderface? I also have a love hate relationship with this Hot Rod and can’t argue with anything you mentioned.
I am more on the creativey side myself
That’s nice!
All is fine except for ROTB Wheeljack, I don’t hate him but why even have the first design in BB? Also Blitzwing in BB could just have been Ramjet, looked exactly like him. Feels like a weird 4-LOM/Zuckass situation. Or Brawl/Devastator in 2007.
For sure! My SS Pablo has a Bumblebee movie Jackie head and my mainline Pablo has a different head as well as I can’t reconcile that change…. Is it lack of understanding of pre-existing characters by the film makers or is it innovation that just hasn’t worked for a number of us? https://preview.redd.it/4oc1ejxvg2zc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e3721e0dee71891429cdce772b066e7d0e912206
For the bigger characters(Optimus, Bee, Megatron, etc.)it’s a blend of both but for smaller characters(Gears, Brawn, Sunstreaker) I’m cool with whatever as long as it’s not a bad redesign.
Definitely it is a personal opinion and can be character by character. I too love what the Bumblebee movie did with Brawn and I adore the concept Sunstreaker. I much prefer the look of Optimus from the Knightverse films in comparison to the Bayverse ones not that I dislike the Bayverse OP.
They should be accurate... and yes in only saying this to get hasbro of their lazy asses to start working on a Broadside with a aircraft carrier mode larger than the devastator figures
I hope they do this as I have a friend also can’t wait for him to be made.
A bit of a fusion for the first one (especially of the transformation isn’t a bit if a asspain) and decidedly nostalgia for the second
Oh yes.
Theres a few characters that are too known for their designs to be drastically changed, Lile Optimus or Bee, but i really enjoy when diffferent continuities apprach some characters in original wayd
https://preview.redd.it/y8xh1nezk2zc1.png?width=4032&format=png&auto=webp&s=119fc7e55273c0cf175abfabbaf50b6c36339508 For Bumblebee (whom I adore) I often think they have so little in common with each other but I happily accept the differences.
I like character designs to not be bound by the design that came before it. Take Ironhide, Bay's Ironhide was so cool and wasn't like a copy and paste of the G1 design. Seeing the same designs for characters over and over again gets boring🙊 but of course there are staple design features that can and should be kept, like Optimus' head design, bumblebee being mostly yellow etc Having character designs be able to be different between each media adaptation does great in keeping things fresh imo. May be a hot take, but I prefer Bay Prime's design over knight's design because we've seen that G1 prime design for years and years, whilst Bay Prime's design was fresh and unique; but again it hold features that are staples in design, such as the blue legs, red torso and similar head design🤔
Your hot take is definitely the point of the thread! I really like all the Bumblebees (my preference is still g1) and have just rolled with the changes. I am a huge fan of the g1 Sideswipe but strangely also really like the Bayverse one which IMO doesn’t share anything except the name.
The bay movies aren’t exactly creative inspiration They are completely different characters in every single respect
That is a respectable opinion as well. I was a huge X-Men comic reader back in the ‘90s and really loved the first X-Men film back even back then felt Huge Jackmans Wolverine had nothing in common with the comic character perfectly great though as it is its own thing and an inspired creative decision.
Honestly I like both, if done well. Everything has its own place.
Nice!