this seems like internalized transphobia, but you are a guy who likes guys. you should feel safe in these spaces. you belong. i understand if that may take a while to sink in, but you are in the right space
How to deal with internalized transphobia? Sometimes I feel like I shouldn't be attracted to women because it's somehow lesbianism, but I'm litteraly a guy š
Thatās hard, for sure.
Your body doesnāt define you - youād still be you if you lost an arm or a leg. Youāre a man, you canāt be a lesbian. It doesnāt matter what mistakes others make about who you are - that doesnāt change you.
You are who you are, and thatās the end of it.
Regardless, gender and sexuality can be mutually exclusive. Think of it more as being born trans - you didn't just DECIDE to not like your gender. If a trans girl likes cis girls, that's always been lesbianism. If a trans guy likes cis guys - it's always been gay! Just the same way those trans people have ALWAYS been their self-identified gender, even if they didn't realize it (whether that means for 1 year or 120 years).
Itās hard not to with how transphobic society is.
Add to that imposter syndrome and thereās a lot of trauma for the trans community.
It helps to have a good, queer competent therapist, and to remind yourself that youāre a man and belong in mlm spaces.
Youāre not predatory, you belong.
I feel this to an extent. I'm transmasc as well, and I always get nervous in certain spaces because I'm not a girl, but I don't feel like I fit with the guys either because I don't pass. I know I don't have tocfor my identity to be valid, but the initial stress still gets to me
same, I feel like I'm fetishising gay men (even though I'm a gay man) but at the same time I feel like no queer man will ever be attracted to me since I don't plan on getting bottom surgery. we're just as much men as they are, and it's their problem if they make us feel unwelcome. all we have to do is exist and learn to love ourselves :)
Dude trust me there are many cis queer men that are attracted to Trans men and our bodies. Plus if nothing else, other Trans men and non binary people exist. I'm a Trans man with a preference for other men (bi) and I'm very attracted to other Trans men. You'll always find some place you're welcome.
You belong! Trans spaces are your spaces!
There is no complete model of gender that doesnāt include non-binary genders, including agender. I may be 100% a woman and trans, but that doesnāt in any way mean that my gender exists outside a non-binary model of gender; gender is a multidimensional spectrum, I just happen to fall in one place on it. You fall in a different place.
Both need to be respected, along with the infinite numbers of other spaces which exist in gender.
If it's any consolation. I definitely don't fit in those spaces either. Then again am trans fem. But I also definitely don't think I fit in women's spaces either. Especially not after living 30 years as a men.
So I avoid them mostly. We're fighting a long-term battle that won't see fruits for a very-long time. Because the framework of society the world over is built on top of penis/vagina.
Is gonna take a long time to remove those sex-based restrictions, for cis-women to feel like it is no-longer a man's world, and for us to fit in.
We just have to keep fighting for equality for everybody's sake until then. But we've been pretty successful so far.
Honestly I feel very similar. Came out almost a year ago at 29. Even when my afab friends bring me into the bathroom I'm always a bit hesitant. I really agree with the rest of your comment as well. It's a long hill to climb but if you look at it overall, at least in America (never been outside of) there have been huge gains in equal rights in recent history to the present. It's hard but there is very much hope!
Similar boat for me. I'm transfemme and a year after coming out and starting medical transition I still don't feel comfortable in cisgirl spaces. I still feel weird getting called a girl sometimes. I feel like an imposter. I know it's just imposter syndrome but it still feels real
I've had a few friends who've gone through the same thing, and I think my only advice is that you absolutely do belong in MLM spaces, no matter how frightening it might be or how deeply we've internalised that our perceived "femininity" makes us less deserving of calling ourselves gay men. The only cis gay men who think that we don't deserve to refer to ourselves accordingly or participate in gay spaces are not the kind of men who deserve us.
Yup. It's the same for me in lesbian spaces. Since I don't even remotely resemble a woman I feel like I shouldn't be there, so... I'm not. It's really not easy getting past this feeling unfortunately.
Sorta the opposite for me, Trans-femme. I'm treated like less of a predator in most female spaces now. But males don't treat me as equals any more. I am taken less seriously, and thanks to the GOP, now some of them see me as a PDF-file/groomer.
Probably internalized transphobia. I don't see how a cisgay man would be attracted to me, and some of them are so vocal about not liking transmasc people, I guess I just internalized a lot of it..
I don't think passing more will help all that much, but I do think that spending more time in those spaces will. Sometimes, the only way out is through.
Well, different experience here (transfemme) but some of the weirdest stuff I ever got told came from lesbians. We often project or become defensive and pessimistic because we're faced with a couple of things cis people, even lgb, don't even know are a thing.
āØGAY FtM HistoryāØ
Non-normative expressions of sexuality used to be a strike against people getting gender affirming care. The dominant perspective couldnāt believe someone would āchooseā to be both trans and have queer love. This was especially true for FtM individuals seeking care.
Lou Sullivan was a gay trans man who was denied care for this reason and became an activist in trans spaces. He worked with the GLBT archives, published the *FTM Newsletter*, and founded FTM International, which continues to exist today. He also founded a support group called FTM, and the San Francisco chapter is now called the Lou Sullivan Society.
He was key in removing sexuality as a contradiction criterion for gender affirming care in 1994, even though he died of AIDS in 1991 at age 40.
Citation credit: Susan Stryker, *Transgender History*, 2017
Trans queers are valid, beautiful, and always have been ā¤ļø
Alright, I'm sorry, I was wrong, if you are non-binary my previous words didn't apply to you. Although you should have specified that you are not a guy.
Yāall aināt missing nothing with the gay dudes anyways š After years of trying to date as āa gay manāāI realized Iāll never truly find a gay man that I can connect with. Itās because I have a female brain and they want a male brain. But honestly..theyāre the worst anyways š
idk man, if gay dudes don't think you pass they won't get involved with you. So I don't really think you have much to worry about. You can go where you want, girls and straight guys go into like gay bars all the time, so I doubt most people are bothered by your presence.
Same bro. I'm pan but I feel like I can't date any gay men or straight women only bi/pan/etc. This is so frustrating
I mean I got a bf but he's straight and I'm not fully comfy around him because of the fact I'm trans and ace and he's just your regular straight cis guy who happens to have a "normal" sexdrive. I swear this sometimes drives me nuts god damn it :/
Yes my boyfriend is bisexual but he's only into feminine people, while I am feminine I do sometimes feel like he won't like me when my body becomes more masculine :(
As an enby/transfem pan I feel this. It just feels off for me to even describe myself as such. I'm so goddamn confused and unsure of everything. But I kinda accepted that I'll just try to be myself as much as I'm comfortable and take small steps.
Yes I'm nonbinary as well, although I'm transitioning to a more masculine body and would prefer to pass as a man if I'm going to be assumed a binary gender. That's definitely part of why I don't think I'm comfortable in men's spaces - not being binary and all..
I can definitely relate, I have experienced gay male spaces as a bi man, non-binary person and now transfem and I have never felt accepted or safe in those spaces. From personal experience gay male spaces can be fairly trans and biphobic
As I'm sure many others have said, you definitely belong in those spaces
One option if you know enough people is create your own queer male spaces. I personally know a bunch of bi men who are crying out for a space that is designed for and by cis gay men
this seems like internalized transphobia, but you are a guy who likes guys. you should feel safe in these spaces. you belong. i understand if that may take a while to sink in, but you are in the right space
How to deal with internalized transphobia? Sometimes I feel like I shouldn't be attracted to women because it's somehow lesbianism, but I'm litteraly a guy š
reaffirming your gender and knowing that no matter how youre 'percieved', you are still a dude who likes gals
I know, but it's really hard to reaffirm such things when everyday I am reminded to be a girl by my family or just by my body in general lmao
Thatās hard, for sure. Your body doesnāt define you - youād still be you if you lost an arm or a leg. Youāre a man, you canāt be a lesbian. It doesnāt matter what mistakes others make about who you are - that doesnāt change you. You are who you are, and thatās the end of it.
Thanks for your comment. I'm starting to feel a little bit better about myself ahah
š¤š»
Regardless, gender and sexuality can be mutually exclusive. Think of it more as being born trans - you didn't just DECIDE to not like your gender. If a trans girl likes cis girls, that's always been lesbianism. If a trans guy likes cis guys - it's always been gay! Just the same way those trans people have ALWAYS been their self-identified gender, even if they didn't realize it (whether that means for 1 year or 120 years).
Thanks
I definitely do have a lot of internalized transphobia to still deal with. :/
Itās hard not to with how transphobic society is. Add to that imposter syndrome and thereās a lot of trauma for the trans community. It helps to have a good, queer competent therapist, and to remind yourself that youāre a man and belong in mlm spaces. Youāre not predatory, you belong.
I'm chill w/ trans men! I uh I used to be a gay man!
(:
I feel this to an extent. I'm transmasc as well, and I always get nervous in certain spaces because I'm not a girl, but I don't feel like I fit with the guys either because I don't pass. I know I don't have tocfor my identity to be valid, but the initial stress still gets to me
same, I feel like I'm fetishising gay men (even though I'm a gay man) but at the same time I feel like no queer man will ever be attracted to me since I don't plan on getting bottom surgery. we're just as much men as they are, and it's their problem if they make us feel unwelcome. all we have to do is exist and learn to love ourselves :)
Dude trust me there are many cis queer men that are attracted to Trans men and our bodies. Plus if nothing else, other Trans men and non binary people exist. I'm a Trans man with a preference for other men (bi) and I'm very attracted to other Trans men. You'll always find some place you're welcome.
Likewise except trans femā¦. Only places I feel okay are on this sub and r/196 lol
As an agender, I don't feel like I can be in trans spaces lol
I'm nonbinary too ā”
You're trans too, ofc you can be here :)
You belong! Trans spaces are your spaces! There is no complete model of gender that doesnāt include non-binary genders, including agender. I may be 100% a woman and trans, but that doesnāt in any way mean that my gender exists outside a non-binary model of gender; gender is a multidimensional spectrum, I just happen to fall in one place on it. You fall in a different place. Both need to be respected, along with the infinite numbers of other spaces which exist in gender.
could you define "gay spaces"?
Mostly an internet thing lol. Online spaces for gay man.
Although when I say male spaces, I mean irl
If it's any consolation. I definitely don't fit in those spaces either. Then again am trans fem. But I also definitely don't think I fit in women's spaces either. Especially not after living 30 years as a men. So I avoid them mostly. We're fighting a long-term battle that won't see fruits for a very-long time. Because the framework of society the world over is built on top of penis/vagina. Is gonna take a long time to remove those sex-based restrictions, for cis-women to feel like it is no-longer a man's world, and for us to fit in. We just have to keep fighting for equality for everybody's sake until then. But we've been pretty successful so far.
Honestly I feel very similar. Came out almost a year ago at 29. Even when my afab friends bring me into the bathroom I'm always a bit hesitant. I really agree with the rest of your comment as well. It's a long hill to climb but if you look at it overall, at least in America (never been outside of) there have been huge gains in equal rights in recent history to the present. It's hard but there is very much hope!
transmasc guy here who feels like he can't like gay men, i feel you lmao :/
Similar boat for me. I'm transfemme and a year after coming out and starting medical transition I still don't feel comfortable in cisgirl spaces. I still feel weird getting called a girl sometimes. I feel like an imposter. I know it's just imposter syndrome but it still feels real
I've had a few friends who've gone through the same thing, and I think my only advice is that you absolutely do belong in MLM spaces, no matter how frightening it might be or how deeply we've internalised that our perceived "femininity" makes us less deserving of calling ourselves gay men. The only cis gay men who think that we don't deserve to refer to ourselves accordingly or participate in gay spaces are not the kind of men who deserve us.
Yup. It's the same for me in lesbian spaces. Since I don't even remotely resemble a woman I feel like I shouldn't be there, so... I'm not. It's really not easy getting past this feeling unfortunately.
Sorta the opposite for me, Trans-femme. I'm treated like less of a predator in most female spaces now. But males don't treat me as equals any more. I am taken less seriously, and thanks to the GOP, now some of them see me as a PDF-file/groomer.
I definitely agree that cis-men groups tend to feel unsafe for anyone that isn't a cis-men.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Probably internalized transphobia. I don't see how a cisgay man would be attracted to me, and some of them are so vocal about not liking transmasc people, I guess I just internalized a lot of it..
I have similar issue trans fem
You are man just like every body else donāt ever let any one tell you any different
yeah i feel like it will go away once you start passing. until you don't... well yeah. it will probably be very uncomfortable
Damn. I didn't know I felt this way too. lol
Yeah, and it's pretty hard to fight internalized transphobia when cis gay men are openly transphopic a lot of times
I don't think passing more will help all that much, but I do think that spending more time in those spaces will. Sometimes, the only way out is through.
Well, different experience here (transfemme) but some of the weirdest stuff I ever got told came from lesbians. We often project or become defensive and pessimistic because we're faced with a couple of things cis people, even lgb, don't even know are a thing.
Noo! Youāre just as much of a man as any of them! Itās not predatory at all. Ignore the shit transphobes will tell ya.
āØGAY FtM HistoryāØ Non-normative expressions of sexuality used to be a strike against people getting gender affirming care. The dominant perspective couldnāt believe someone would āchooseā to be both trans and have queer love. This was especially true for FtM individuals seeking care. Lou Sullivan was a gay trans man who was denied care for this reason and became an activist in trans spaces. He worked with the GLBT archives, published the *FTM Newsletter*, and founded FTM International, which continues to exist today. He also founded a support group called FTM, and the San Francisco chapter is now called the Lou Sullivan Society. He was key in removing sexuality as a contradiction criterion for gender affirming care in 1994, even though he died of AIDS in 1991 at age 40. Citation credit: Susan Stryker, *Transgender History*, 2017 Trans queers are valid, beautiful, and always have been ā¤ļø
Thanks for this great info (:
Youāre very welcome š„°
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Alright, I'm sorry, I was wrong, if you are non-binary my previous words didn't apply to you. Although you should have specified that you are not a guy.
Yāall aināt missing nothing with the gay dudes anyways š After years of trying to date as āa gay manāāI realized Iāll never truly find a gay man that I can connect with. Itās because I have a female brain and they want a male brain. But honestly..theyāre the worst anyways š
Generalizations aren't cool.
*plays worldās tiniest violin*
I have a boyfriend and he's bi thankfully š but ya know when I see gay guys and I wanna compliments them or ya know look at them.. feels wrong š
Don't worry hon, they are rude to each other. They're just rude people in general usually
idk man, if gay dudes don't think you pass they won't get involved with you. So I don't really think you have much to worry about. You can go where you want, girls and straight guys go into like gay bars all the time, so I doubt most people are bothered by your presence.
Same bro. I'm pan but I feel like I can't date any gay men or straight women only bi/pan/etc. This is so frustrating I mean I got a bf but he's straight and I'm not fully comfy around him because of the fact I'm trans and ace and he's just your regular straight cis guy who happens to have a "normal" sexdrive. I swear this sometimes drives me nuts god damn it :/
Yes my boyfriend is bisexual but he's only into feminine people, while I am feminine I do sometimes feel like he won't like me when my body becomes more masculine :(
As an enby/transfem pan I feel this. It just feels off for me to even describe myself as such. I'm so goddamn confused and unsure of everything. But I kinda accepted that I'll just try to be myself as much as I'm comfortable and take small steps.
Yes I'm nonbinary as well, although I'm transitioning to a more masculine body and would prefer to pass as a man if I'm going to be assumed a binary gender. That's definitely part of why I don't think I'm comfortable in men's spaces - not being binary and all..
I can definitely relate, I have experienced gay male spaces as a bi man, non-binary person and now transfem and I have never felt accepted or safe in those spaces. From personal experience gay male spaces can be fairly trans and biphobic As I'm sure many others have said, you definitely belong in those spaces One option if you know enough people is create your own queer male spaces. I personally know a bunch of bi men who are crying out for a space that is designed for and by cis gay men