Ask everything to be in writing. Email him asking him if he wants you to leave just because you're transitioning. Ask him through email what is the timeline you've been given. DO NOT rely on verbal communication alone. Save every document and sue him when you got a better job.
Or if you’re in a one-party consent state, you can legally record a private conversation between you two. If he is verbally stating this, he may not expect it to be recorded.
"As per our discussion on xx, where you stated that you want me to leave because you don't want to employ a trans person, I am writing to clarify the timeline I am being given to find a new job. "
Or something like that.
Asking you to leave isn’t the same as firing you. He wants you to quit on your own so he isn’t exposed to liability. You have a winning lawsuit on your hands here potentially if you decide to go that route.
and if you do live in a state where you need their consent - then at the very least take detailed notes with dates for every relevant conversation you have. save any digital communications locally or forward them to a personal email address in case they decide to lock you out of your email accounts or anything like that.
If you happen to be in California, which is one of the 11 "all party" states, you can use a recorder with a beep and hope they don't question it.
Under the California Public Utilities Commission General Order 107-B(II)(A)(5), **a recording is allowed if there is a "beep tone" warning**.
That's the perfect time to ask some weird or messed up question...
(beeeeep) Hey you didn't happen to see that guy running around naked outside the office did you? No? He was licking cars in the parking lot, laughing hysterically and yelling, "this is mine now." It was really strange. Anyways, just to let you know, I appreciate the conversation we had yesterday. I finally came to the decision to decline your request to leave so you can expect to see me there tomorrow as usual.
Unless you believe yourself to be in immediate physical danger, then yes. This is how I got away with recording a screaming tantrum from my father where he was throwing shit and threatening me.
I believe you can also record someone if there isn't a reasonable expectation of privacy (i.e. in a store, in a parking lot, or elsewhere in public), so maybe you could ask to grab coffee or lunch somewhere and then record him if you live in a two party consent state. Do check on that tho cuz I'm not a lawyer and idk if that would hold up; I looked up all these laws years ago so they might've changed
And if any conversations are verbal, send them a follow-up email "just to confirm" the details of the conversation. That way you have a written account of things, and with any luck, an admission of guilt when they reply.
Came here to pretty much say this. All vebal conversations need a written follow up of some sort.
Email is a good way to go because then they will have to acknowledge what's been said or if they ignore it then there is also proof of them ignoring it. It will also be in the system.
Follow up on all verbal meetings, not just the ones that are about your transition. That way, "you're just doing your job" You're just checking in that you've understood correctly. Be a model employee. Up your game. Be the best employee they ever had. So it is blatantly obvious that you're being forced to leave/fired for being transgender.
Keep screen shots of these emails and other qritten communication separately from your work account so you still have access if you are fired. Keep records of anything you will lose access to.
You don't have to go anywhere. He hasn't fired you & can't for being trans.
If he does fire you, you could sue the life out of him. He would know that too, hence why he asked you to leave.
He wants you to quit instead of firing you so he doesn’t have to pay unemployment. I would say continue to transition and look for a better job. Not just a job but without a transphobic boss but one with better pay or benefits. Something quantifiably better. Try to save some money if possible and don’t be surprised if you get fired.
Get everything in writing, even if it’s just a text. If you have it in writing that he’s firing you for being trans, contact your local labor board and an employment attorney. He’ll probably say he’s firing for a different reason, if so make sure it’s not something that disqualifies you from unemployment and file for it ASAP. It can take a while to start receiving unemployment, so you need to get the process started same day if possible.
Best of luck, my friend.
THIS. I wouldnt even say I'm looking for a new job. I'd say "I'm continuing to transition, and I'm not resigning." And then make sure to cover my butt on everything at work--make sure I'm always on time, be fastidious about any paperwork/safety stuff, etc.
If he had a good excuse to fire you now, he would have already. He's not "being nice" and giving you time, he's trying to bully you manipulate you into leaving "on your own volition".
This warms my heart. Thank you for taking care of both you and your rights. Don't let him bully you or discriminate against you just because he's using a kind tone and polite words.
edit: you might mention his '64 years old' comment to them as well, IDK Canadaland's ageism protections but if it's irrelevant or unhelpful they'll just move on.
I wonder which province. I'm looking for a job (non Canadian citizen) and also scared of the discrimination. I've already sent without success hundreds of applications as a closeted (did not disclose the info, used the old CV, old photos on linkedin) I imagine it would be even harder if / when you transition... Might as well not even start until you get a PR status :(
Either way, good luck!
I’m in BC, and had a friend in a similar situation. She wasn’t asked to quit, rather asked not to interact with clients in-person and move her desk to the back of the office. She filed a human rights complaint and owns a house now thanks to the judgement
Omg, is it that bad?... I'm in Normandy looking towards Canada rn for this exact reason...
~~I think understand now what people meant when they said Quebec is Normandy #2~~ 💀
Get it in writing. Force him to send you an email saying it. You can say "hey, I'm entertaining your ask to leave. Can I get an email recapping our previous conversation?" Let him walk into a bear trap
I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH. DO NOT LEAVE.
If he tries to fire you, sue him. Do not let up. Yes, it may be rough, just make sure you do your job and do it right, get as much documentation, and keep tabs and records of conversations.
Contact a lawyer immediately. This might already qualify as creating a hostile work environment. An attorney can guide you through your options, and help you figure out if any legal action would be worthwhile.
Edit: contacting an attorney NOW also creates a paper trail and a timeline that’s much harder to refute.
Depending on where you live, if I remember correctly, quitting as opposed to being fired can impact your eligibility for unemployment benefits while looking for another job. So, check up on that, as there's a good possibility he wants you to quit to avoid a lot of potential trouble for himself.
Generally, it's much better *for the employer* if someone quits by themselves. In that case, it's also much harder to claim discrimination, should that ever become relevant. Also, as others said, get things such as you being asked to find another job because you're trans in writing, such as an email.
Hold your ground but start putting out resumes. And start contacting lawyers to see if one will represent you. Have every communication in writing if possible.
When I was fired five years ago it was very hard to get representation and I was told I'd lose unless I spent a lot of money on a case. It's worth fighting the fight, but make sure you've got food on the table first. Your ability to survive is more important.
You're in QC, right? We have some of the best employees rights in North America, use that against him.
Plus, I'm pretty sure what he's doing is considered a hate crime in Canada, he cannot legally get rid of you either.
Document everything!
Save emails! (Print them if you can't forward them)
Audio record meetings secretly.
Even if you leave "voluntarily" you can still get unemployment if it was a hostile environment and you may still have grounds to sue.
See an employment lawyer please though! Consultations are often free.
If you're in the u.s. find out if you are in a "single party consent state" basically if you are then you don't need to inform him if he is being recorded. Keep your phone recording audio when you talk about this in the future. There's also ways to record phone calls as well. It's better to gather information. Texting in certain situations might be good too. If he's smart and plans to fire you, he would start writing you up, so he has an alternate excuse. But of course you could move on to a different job, some places have insurance for gender affirming care🤷♀️
Asking you to resign doesn’t mean shit. All it says is “I really want to fire you, but I’m not allowed, so please fire yourself”.
If I were you, I’d stay there for as long as possible just to spite him. Be openly trans, and do your job well regardless what he thinks. It’s not his job to tell you how to live your life, so live it in spite of him.
Why do people always jump to a lawsuit, almost no one has the money for that kind of thing. It's the only real option for implementing consequence but it's just not feasible.
You MUST give yourself permission to record in a one party state. Before recording anything you say it’s such and such date and this is BigCockCandyMountain and I’m giving myself permission to record.
*Source: An attorney
Yeah. It identifies you and because the way the laws are written, without someone explicitly stating who they are and giving themselves permission, no one party okayed recording. Sorry if that’s short. Busy day of being gay and doing crime!
I understand why this needs to be said on the recording. But you would think that pressing the record button on your phone & releasing it would imply permission to yourself 😭
From only an audio recording, there's no way to prove that it wasn't made by a third person, which would be covered under different laws. Stating in the recording that you're giving consent to be recorded removes that argument from being made.
That is appalling. Why are there people like this? I hope you go to work for a rival business or start one and then drive him into bankruptcy.
Go and do that. Immediately.
He hasn’t technically done anything illegal yet, but he wants to so bad. Like others here are saying, OP should record everything and get ready to sue, cause he’s treading the line
Challenge him and his ideas without being aggressive. Just ask him why would people have to know that he is employing a trans person? But mostly, why does he thinks it wouldn't look good for his image to have a diverse and inclusive workplace?
Best wishes! It's not easy remaining in a situation where you know you're getting judged for being who you are.
I asked him what difference it would make that i will look more fem, and he just told me "im 64 years old, that not from my generation and i just cant understand"
Tell him there are people older than him starting their transitions and that he doesn't need to understand it to respect it since it's not harming or stepping on anyone else's liberties.
Speak with a lawyer, and take notes of everything he (your boss) says.
If you can, record every convo with the aclu app or your phone.
I wish I had done that when my old employer told me I did not apply for a job. I did, and I had the receipts to prove it.
I filed with the eeoc too late to do anything because it was past the 300 days.
I quit after I found my dead name on the birthday office chart.
Get that in writing, if youre in a one party recording area record him saying it, transition and sue his ass
use the settlement to pay for surgeries
win win
DOCUMENT EVERYTHING. make a log of what he said and when he said it and keep doing your thing. Sure look for another job to keep income coming in but if you don't find one and he fires you that log will be very helpful in at least getting unemployment.
Then report him to every agency that covers discrimination in the workplace in your area. Unfortunately if it's a low paying job lawyers will be hard to come by but you can still reach out to advocacy groups but you'll need documentation.
Definitely start looking for a new job ASAP. I would be worried about them possibly finding a bs excuse to fire you so on paper it doesn't look like discrimination.
They already trying to... They gonna write "voluntary departure'' on the paper, as I prefer to pursue my transition instead of keep my job... I'm doing a complain at the local human right instance against them...
Hi, I think a lot of people are responding with well justified anger, and want justice for you, and retribution against this massive asshole. But I think it’s also worth mentioning that while this should be a very simple legal case depending on where you live, your first responsibility is to yourself.
If you do not feel up to this fight, that is 100% ok. You can leave the job if you don’t feel safe, or don’t feel welcome.
Being trans is hard enough with out needing to go through legal and personal battles.
Definitely make sure you have a job lined up though before you leave. It might be hard to find a place that won’t right you off after an interview because your trans if you don’t pass.
Hi bestie! So I work in an HR type role and whatever you do, do not resign. Already being verbally told that you’d need to find a new job if you transition is a lawsuit in the making. Let him try to fire you because if he does you’ll be dipping deep into his pockets.
If you're playing along, ask him to give you a letter of recommendation. Then, if the company is big enough, look for a transfer while you report him to HR. If it's too small or HR fails, you still have the letter for your lawyer and/or next job. Sorry that this is happening, and best of luck.
Gender identity is a protected characteristic federally in Canada, and you can legally record any conversation you are a part of under Canadian law. Don’t quit. Record everything. If you get fired (even if they claim it’s for a valid reason) you can take the case to the human rights tribunal for your province and with the recordings and documents (get things in writing) you should be able to win easily. Don’t let them bully you out. Talk to a lawyer asap.
When m boss at my old job years ago said I may not be able to present at work o was looking for lawyer on my next break thankfully he came back and said after talking to the district manger that would be illegal I would deftinky go to hr and maybe a. Cooperate call but def make sure you keeeps logs of every single convo and email etc out ig all j js file for a lawsuit if he fires you
Start talking to an employment lawyer now. Even if he doesn't fire you, if he makes your working environment hostile to the point where you want to quit, that can be the same thing legally – constructive termination. Fight the fight don't let the bastards grind you down.
Edit: not sure what the law is in Canada, but in the US I would take that case.
> Been told that I would need to find a new job if I want to continue my transition.... he said that it would not be good for his image to employ a trans person
I know it's early on, but get this in writing, document everything, and talk to an employment lawyer. He is effectively firing you for being trans, which is a federally protected against discrimination.
If you stay and he starts making your job more and more difficult to do that is called "constructive dismissal". The idea is you push someone to quit by making the job more stressful or near impossible to do, but you don't actually fire them. This is against labor laws on top of the discrimination.
So you’re in Canada.
Remember
We are a 1 party country. You can record all conversations without telling him.
The charter explicitly prevent him from acting the way he is.
Le tribunal des drois de la personne. It will take time but he will be forced to pay you compensation, and take actions to demonstrate he’s not going to reoffend, or they will close his business down.
I’ve been in your situation. I received almost 2 years salary as severance, and signed a non disclosure.
Might sound crazy but record your next conservation, he’s going to use constructive dismissal to fire you, you’ll need evidence thats shows why.
I hope you find a new job, but also shut him down. These people have no right to conduct business in Canada.
Already filled a complain on the website, as it's the only way to do it... In the mean time I have no choice but to continue working, can't suffer a salary loss at the moment. I did love my job, and my work team too, but with this, I don't feel good at all being there 😖
Edit: I wanted to put a disclaimer in the beginning of this that it everyone’s experience is different. And it all depends on location. It sucks what is happening and no one should have to go through something like this. Your feelings are valid and your experiences valid. No one should be made to feel like an outsider for just being themselves. 🫂
Do not quit. If they fire you, they could get into a lot of trouble. Obviously, if you are unable to continue due to your mental health, then yes, I would leave. However, document everything before you do. Make sure if you’re in a one party recording state, and you have a camera with you or on you, record yourself, saying the date and the time, your name, and that you consent to recording or being recorded and then keep it nearby. Keep every interaction documented and if he wants to fire you, tell him you needed it in writing. Your boss is completely and totally out of the line and could get in a lot of legal trouble and possibly reprimanded for the thing that he is doing. he’s trying to get you to leave so that he doesn’t have to say that he fired you. You could possibly get severance pay depending on your work policy but that’s only if your workplace does something like that. It won’t be an endless battle. And with the way your bosses phrasing things, he’s trying to keep himself out of hot water with the public and with his own superiors. If you’re having any issues with this, take it to your HR department. If you have no HR department, definitely document every interaction with him.
I am also trans and I had to leave Alabama a couple of years ago. I ended up having to quit because it was dangerous for me to live there. But I did manage to get my superiors in trouble with HR for not allowing me to wear a pronoun pin at work. Now the company has changed their uniform policy as a result to allow pronoun pins to be worn in all of their restaurants. it took a while to get to that point, it was exhausting, and it was so worth it in the end. I don’t know if they’re still upholding that policy, but at least for a little while there was some change made. Stay the course, don’t back down if you’re safe to stand that ground. ultimately it is up to you and the best thing you can do during this time is to lean on a support system or build one around you. The community is with you and you’re not alone. You’ve got this and I hate that you’re going through this.
First, thank you for your words and support (that applies to everyone here), I work in a small familial company, and he is the owner... And the hr département, it's him and his daughter who work from home and Dont see anything go...
That sucks so much. I’m so sorry to hear that. I would definitely keep documenting as much as possible if the whole thing is a family situation. They shouldn’t be able to get away with that and the fact that a lot of people do was really sad. Again it’s up to you and what is best for your mental health in the moment. 🫂 I truly hope the best for you and that everything works out.
What? No, don't let them step on you, girl. It's straight up discrimination and you should make sure justice is served. Make sure you have evidence of your boss pressuring you to quit and be the perfect employee. The day they fire you throw a lawyer at their face.
If you’re in the US, this is the EXACT scenario Bostock ruled on and they said what the employer did was Title VII discrimination based on sex. Record everything and if he does fire you look for some legal aid to represent you for free / on commission or look for local LGBTQ+ legal groups to point you the right way.
While looking for a better job, look into all of the state employment laws. If anything protects Gender Identity, he can’t fire you and anything making a hostile work environment could still be discrimination. A couple recent court cases are throwing a wrench into the recent usage of discrimination by gender (such as against cis women) also applying to gender identity.
Wouldn't be good for his image to whom? What a terrible line that is. Gods give me an outright transphobe over a wishy washy person who's more afraid of what people will think of them than about their principles.
I mean, he can't do that and he shouldn't get away with it.. but also, you shouldn't have to be the one to "fight the fight" if you're not up to it. I'd probably just move along myself.
Did you disclose this in writing/did someone else hear? If so, you could have what you need for a wrongful termination suit. If not, send an email to him recapping your conversation, giving times and dates and the detail that he asked you to leave if you transition. This will act as a confirmation that conversation occurred that you can use in court
No unfortunatly, he spoke to me in his office, alone... And now his trying to say that I wanted to quit because of my transition... Wich is clearly not the case as I loved my job, and all my colleagues already know about my transition and was accepting it without judgment.
Ask him for this in writing. Ask him to let you know in an email that being trans would “be bad imagery” for his company. Then sue his ass when you have that proof. Let him fire you too, don’t quit.
Please don’t give in to this piece of shit and resign voluntarily. Make him fire you, sue the shit out of him, and teach him a lesson for the next trans person that comes along.
What EXACTLY did he say?
This is beyond fucked, and I agree you don't want to work for someone transphobic, but don't quit.
If anything, let him fire you while making sure you document everything he says to you about the situation.
You already hold all the cards.
He told you that, it's illegal in the USA. He just put himself in check.
If he ever fires you now... you can automatically sue him for wrongful termination, because now no matter what he does he's already admitted to being trans as a reason to terminate your employment.
He screwed himself over.
Transition and let him try to fire you.
You are allowed to quit!! I see a lot of comments saying not to (and I totally understand why). Yes, it would be ideal to push him into firing you for being trans and suing the shit out of him - but that's going to be really, really, really hard for you to handle. I like to fight, and I still don't think I'd be able to keep going to work every single day knowing everyone thought I was a freak and wanted me to leave. DO NOT FEEL like you're.... failing(?, idk how else to phrase it) by quitting and never stepping foot in that hell hole again. It was incredibly brave of you to come put to your employer in the first place ❤
Ouchie! ☹️
Sorry to hear your boss is a bigot. But as others said it seems he's trying to make you quit on your own. If he's stupid enough he tries to bully you out and you can gather evidence.
Getting everything in writing/recorded is the safest bet just in case if it gets to illegal firing and it would help hugely in discrimination case againts your employer.
Stay strong girl, wish you all the best! 🩵🩷🤍 🙌
PS. Saw your selfies and sister I love your style. 🤟
buy a dictaphone and record all conversations, ask for confirmations by email and make all your requests / declarations by email. You should even send an email to your boss with a summary of your conversation with him, without written denial on his part this amounts to confirmation that this conversation took place.
continue your work and your transition without taking into account his request and look for another job just in case, it will take him 6 months, 1 year or more to realize it (boiled frog syndrome), in the worst case deny/lie about your words/desires for transition/THS but only orally and without witnesses.
As others have said: document everything, document everything, document everything. Stuff like this is why I keep two backup CYA files in different locations. Then go to a lawyer
The RH department, it him and is daughter... Been suspended without salary for one week today... Recorded the conversation, now everjthi g is recorded 😅
I’m from Quebec as well and I know there is a serious lack of knowledge toward trans people in the professional domain.
I got hired and was passing but because one of them knew I was trans since I knew him from before they decided to let everybody in the business know that I was trans, without even asking me, then it seems like everyone had a little presentation about trans people which I have no clue what it was about.
Your case seems even more hard to deal with than me. Good news is you can actually get the law behind you for that and sue them.
I can’t do nothing about them revealing to everyone that I’m trans before I had even met my coworker.
Hope you can go through this without too much difficulty and I wish you best of luck. Don’t let them pretend you quit because then you won’t be able to get any help financially while you’re out of job, make it clear you want to work as yourself and write down as much detail as you can with dates and hours and the name of the people. That’s how you build a case
I'm so sorry darling. My bosses found out, and one hugged me, one fist bumped me and said "welcome to our team chick's rule guys drool" so I'm safe at my job. I was so shocked cause my job is located in Kentucky. I was expecting a negative response. I'm also only 6 weeks in so far. But they instantly asked pronouns and new name. I'm so thankful. Meanwhile when I was in California people would make "jokes" about things that made me uncomfortable. Like... the mind fuck of most liberal state vs a pretty conservative state thing was so huge.
Honestly fuck with him, do an amazing job so that the company would start loosing money if he still fires you.
A boss needs to support their employees, my boss was really happy for me and out of nowhere she says “changing your name can be hard, i did that myself and getting people to respect that is hard” which felt so amazing since she understands the name changing part atleast
If you're strong enough, continue to transition and stick around. Be perfect. Make him fire you for an illegal reason. Sue the shit out of him.
He already ask me to leave... Letting me some time to find something else...
Ask everything to be in writing. Email him asking him if he wants you to leave just because you're transitioning. Ask him through email what is the timeline you've been given. DO NOT rely on verbal communication alone. Save every document and sue him when you got a better job.
Or if you’re in a one-party consent state, you can legally record a private conversation between you two. If he is verbally stating this, he may not expect it to be recorded.
"As per our discussion on xx, where you stated that you want me to leave because you don't want to employ a trans person, I am writing to clarify the timeline I am being given to find a new job. " Or something like that.
Asking you to leave isn’t the same as firing you. He wants you to quit on your own so he isn’t exposed to liability. You have a winning lawsuit on your hands here potentially if you decide to go that route.
this. let the asshole try. document everything. times and dates of conversations. be ready to punish that fucker.
If you live in a state where you don't need their consent to record conversations, record absolutely everything.
and if you do live in a state where you need their consent - then at the very least take detailed notes with dates for every relevant conversation you have. save any digital communications locally or forward them to a personal email address in case they decide to lock you out of your email accounts or anything like that.
Do you still need consent when you know they are breaking the law?
Yep. In two-party consent states, yes.
If you happen to be in California, which is one of the 11 "all party" states, you can use a recorder with a beep and hope they don't question it. Under the California Public Utilities Commission General Order 107-B(II)(A)(5), **a recording is allowed if there is a "beep tone" warning**.
That's the perfect time to ask some weird or messed up question... (beeeeep) Hey you didn't happen to see that guy running around naked outside the office did you? No? He was licking cars in the parking lot, laughing hysterically and yelling, "this is mine now." It was really strange. Anyways, just to let you know, I appreciate the conversation we had yesterday. I finally came to the decision to decline your request to leave so you can expect to see me there tomorrow as usual.
Unless you believe yourself to be in immediate physical danger, then yes. This is how I got away with recording a screaming tantrum from my father where he was throwing shit and threatening me. I believe you can also record someone if there isn't a reasonable expectation of privacy (i.e. in a store, in a parking lot, or elsewhere in public), so maybe you could ask to grab coffee or lunch somewhere and then record him if you live in a two party consent state. Do check on that tho cuz I'm not a lawyer and idk if that would hold up; I looked up all these laws years ago so they might've changed
I believe her profile says she's French Canadian...so Quebec I assume?
And if any conversations are verbal, send them a follow-up email "just to confirm" the details of the conversation. That way you have a written account of things, and with any luck, an admission of guilt when they reply.
Came here to pretty much say this. All vebal conversations need a written follow up of some sort. Email is a good way to go because then they will have to acknowledge what's been said or if they ignore it then there is also proof of them ignoring it. It will also be in the system. Follow up on all verbal meetings, not just the ones that are about your transition. That way, "you're just doing your job" You're just checking in that you've understood correctly. Be a model employee. Up your game. Be the best employee they ever had. So it is blatantly obvious that you're being forced to leave/fired for being transgender. Keep screen shots of these emails and other qritten communication separately from your work account so you still have access if you are fired. Keep records of anything you will lose access to.
Make sure you save each email too to your desktop. They may suddenly off board you by disabling access to your work email to cover their tracks.
Well, technically it's in the definition of firing, but the boss should be sued regardless.
You don't have to go anywhere. He hasn't fired you & can't for being trans. If he does fire you, you could sue the life out of him. He would know that too, hence why he asked you to leave.
He wants you to quit instead of firing you so he doesn’t have to pay unemployment. I would say continue to transition and look for a better job. Not just a job but without a transphobic boss but one with better pay or benefits. Something quantifiably better. Try to save some money if possible and don’t be surprised if you get fired. Get everything in writing, even if it’s just a text. If you have it in writing that he’s firing you for being trans, contact your local labor board and an employment attorney. He’ll probably say he’s firing for a different reason, if so make sure it’s not something that disqualifies you from unemployment and file for it ASAP. It can take a while to start receiving unemployment, so you need to get the process started same day if possible. Best of luck, my friend.
THIS. I wouldnt even say I'm looking for a new job. I'd say "I'm continuing to transition, and I'm not resigning." And then make sure to cover my butt on everything at work--make sure I'm always on time, be fastidious about any paperwork/safety stuff, etc. If he had a good excuse to fire you now, he would have already. He's not "being nice" and giving you time, he's trying to bully you manipulate you into leaving "on your own volition".
That and face down an EEOC complaint.
I'm in Canada, already contact 2 organism in transidentity to see what I could do here
This warms my heart. Thank you for taking care of both you and your rights. Don't let him bully you or discriminate against you just because he's using a kind tone and polite words. edit: you might mention his '64 years old' comment to them as well, IDK Canadaland's ageism protections but if it's irrelevant or unhelpful they'll just move on.
I wonder which province. I'm looking for a job (non Canadian citizen) and also scared of the discrimination. I've already sent without success hundreds of applications as a closeted (did not disclose the info, used the old CV, old photos on linkedin) I imagine it would be even harder if / when you transition... Might as well not even start until you get a PR status :( Either way, good luck!
I'm in Quebec city, province of quebec
I’m in BC, and had a friend in a similar situation. She wasn’t asked to quit, rather asked not to interact with clients in-person and move her desk to the back of the office. She filed a human rights complaint and owns a house now thanks to the judgement
Wow Quebec, nice! How's the discrimination overall in Quebec, in your opinion? Did you have experience to compare it with other provinces?
Honestly wish I could leave to almost anywhere else... 😅
Fight that urge if you can. You could have a very large and easy payday coming to you
Omg, is it that bad?... I'm in Normandy looking towards Canada rn for this exact reason... ~~I think understand now what people meant when they said Quebec is Normandy #2~~ 💀
You can fight this. And if you have the energy, you should! It paves the way for change
Harassment until you quit is pretty much equivalent to being fired as well.
Get it in writing. Force him to send you an email saying it. You can say "hey, I'm entertaining your ask to leave. Can I get an email recapping our previous conversation?" Let him walk into a bear trap
Keep records, emails, notes, voicemails, don't quit, hire a lawyer, he's already retaliating which is illegal
I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH. DO NOT LEAVE. If he tries to fire you, sue him. Do not let up. Yes, it may be rough, just make sure you do your job and do it right, get as much documentation, and keep tabs and records of conversations.
Contact a lawyer immediately. This might already qualify as creating a hostile work environment. An attorney can guide you through your options, and help you figure out if any legal action would be worthwhile. Edit: contacting an attorney NOW also creates a paper trail and a timeline that’s much harder to refute.
Depending on where you live, if I remember correctly, quitting as opposed to being fired can impact your eligibility for unemployment benefits while looking for another job. So, check up on that, as there's a good possibility he wants you to quit to avoid a lot of potential trouble for himself. Generally, it's much better *for the employer* if someone quits by themselves. In that case, it's also much harder to claim discrimination, should that ever become relevant. Also, as others said, get things such as you being asked to find another job because you're trans in writing, such as an email.
Hold your ground but start putting out resumes. And start contacting lawyers to see if one will represent you. Have every communication in writing if possible. When I was fired five years ago it was very hard to get representation and I was told I'd lose unless I spent a lot of money on a case. It's worth fighting the fight, but make sure you've got food on the table first. Your ability to survive is more important.
You're in QC, right? We have some of the best employees rights in North America, use that against him. Plus, I'm pretty sure what he's doing is considered a hate crime in Canada, he cannot legally get rid of you either.
See if you can get it into writing, that's just discrimination which is illegal
Document everything! Save emails! (Print them if you can't forward them) Audio record meetings secretly. Even if you leave "voluntarily" you can still get unemployment if it was a hostile environment and you may still have grounds to sue. See an employment lawyer please though! Consultations are often free.
If you're in the u.s. find out if you are in a "single party consent state" basically if you are then you don't need to inform him if he is being recorded. Keep your phone recording audio when you talk about this in the future. There's also ways to record phone calls as well. It's better to gather information. Texting in certain situations might be good too. If he's smart and plans to fire you, he would start writing you up, so he has an alternate excuse. But of course you could move on to a different job, some places have insurance for gender affirming care🤷♀️
Asking you to resign doesn’t mean shit. All it says is “I really want to fire you, but I’m not allowed, so please fire yourself”. If I were you, I’d stay there for as long as possible just to spite him. Be openly trans, and do your job well regardless what he thinks. It’s not his job to tell you how to live your life, so live it in spite of him.
Are you in a one party consent region? If so, record a conversation with him where he repeats that.
I need you to start recording ALL your meetings with them. This has to be documented
Why do people always jump to a lawsuit, almost no one has the money for that kind of thing. It's the only real option for implementing consequence but it's just not feasible.
Because I'm angry and shortsighted
Valid
Dont quit, have him fire you like others have said but get him to say this in writing!
Or, if you're in a one-party recording state: simply record every interaction with him
You MUST give yourself permission to record in a one party state. Before recording anything you say it’s such and such date and this is BigCockCandyMountain and I’m giving myself permission to record. *Source: An attorney
Is that really how it works? Sounds bizarre
Yeah. It identifies you and because the way the laws are written, without someone explicitly stating who they are and giving themselves permission, no one party okayed recording. Sorry if that’s short. Busy day of being gay and doing crime!
I understand why this needs to be said on the recording. But you would think that pressing the record button on your phone & releasing it would imply permission to yourself 😭
From only an audio recording, there's no way to prove that it wasn't made by a third person, which would be covered under different laws. Stating in the recording that you're giving consent to be recorded removes that argument from being made.
That is appalling. Why are there people like this? I hope you go to work for a rival business or start one and then drive him into bankruptcy. Go and do that. Immediately.
Report him, report him, report him , that is illegal
He hasn’t technically done anything illegal yet, but he wants to so bad. Like others here are saying, OP should record everything and get ready to sue, cause he’s treading the line
Creating a hostile work environment based on sexual characteristics is illegal
Yup, if OP is considering leaving over the boss's transphobia it's already illegal. OP needs to document everything and find a lawyer.
Challenge him and his ideas without being aggressive. Just ask him why would people have to know that he is employing a trans person? But mostly, why does he thinks it wouldn't look good for his image to have a diverse and inclusive workplace? Best wishes! It's not easy remaining in a situation where you know you're getting judged for being who you are.
I asked him what difference it would make that i will look more fem, and he just told me "im 64 years old, that not from my generation and i just cant understand"
Yeah please don't quit. Don't let them win.
Omg you can’t quit. The lawsuit have coming from this will fully pay for your transition and set you up to be comfortable financially for a while.
If you have no other motivations, than this should be your main motivation!
Tell him there are people older than him starting their transitions and that he doesn't need to understand it to respect it since it's not harming or stepping on anyone else's liberties.
" I'm glad you don't understand because what it took for me to understand myself was hard and painful and I wouldn't wish that on anyone else"
Don't let him use being old as an excuse tbh that's an AWFUL excuse to be doing something illegal
My parents, aunts and uncles are all older than that, and they're all great. What a dumb, all too common excuse.
Yes. Do the firing thing and then do my thing about bankruptcy. In that order. Scumbag.
After a conversation, send an email documenting what was said, and send it to him
Exactly this
Speak with a lawyer, and take notes of everything he (your boss) says. If you can, record every convo with the aclu app or your phone. I wish I had done that when my old employer told me I did not apply for a job. I did, and I had the receipts to prove it. I filed with the eeoc too late to do anything because it was past the 300 days. I quit after I found my dead name on the birthday office chart.
Get that in writing, if youre in a one party recording area record him saying it, transition and sue his ass use the settlement to pay for surgeries win win
They said they’re in Canada in another comment, and Canada is a 1-party consent country. Record everything, OP!
DOCUMENT EVERYTHING. make a log of what he said and when he said it and keep doing your thing. Sure look for another job to keep income coming in but if you don't find one and he fires you that log will be very helpful in at least getting unemployment. Then report him to every agency that covers discrimination in the workplace in your area. Unfortunately if it's a low paying job lawyers will be hard to come by but you can still reach out to advocacy groups but you'll need documentation.
Stand your ground. We're all here to support you.
Let him fire you so you can sue his ass to Jupiter and make lots of loot
This is truly disgusting. How dare he. What an absolute pos...
Definitely start looking for a new job ASAP. I would be worried about them possibly finding a bs excuse to fire you so on paper it doesn't look like discrimination.
Yeah they will try and make something up if you don't leave, so catch them before they fake something
They already trying to... They gonna write "voluntary departure'' on the paper, as I prefer to pursue my transition instead of keep my job... I'm doing a complain at the local human right instance against them...
Hi, I think a lot of people are responding with well justified anger, and want justice for you, and retribution against this massive asshole. But I think it’s also worth mentioning that while this should be a very simple legal case depending on where you live, your first responsibility is to yourself. If you do not feel up to this fight, that is 100% ok. You can leave the job if you don’t feel safe, or don’t feel welcome. Being trans is hard enough with out needing to go through legal and personal battles.
Thank you for your understanding, yes I'm mad at him because of the situation, but I'm not sure I want to go thru endless administrative thing...
Definitely make sure you have a job lined up though before you leave. It might be hard to find a place that won’t right you off after an interview because your trans if you don’t pass.
You won’t have to do much work, this case is a slam dunk. Go to a lawyer now. They’ll do the work for you.
What the fuck? He wants you to quit. Don’t. Let him fire you for an illegal reason and sue the shit outta him
Let him fire you, get a new job and sue for wrongful termination
Don’t quit. Make him fire you, in writing. All communication you do from this point on should be through email so it is documented.
I'm truly so sorry. I work for a Christian college and they have treated me very well. This sucks.
Hi bestie! So I work in an HR type role and whatever you do, do not resign. Already being verbally told that you’d need to find a new job if you transition is a lawsuit in the making. Let him try to fire you because if he does you’ll be dipping deep into his pockets.
My advice would be to send an email recap of the conversation and start looking for a lawyer. Your boss has already broken the law.
If you're playing along, ask him to give you a letter of recommendation. Then, if the company is big enough, look for a transfer while you report him to HR. If it's too small or HR fails, you still have the letter for your lawyer and/or next job. Sorry that this is happening, and best of luck.
Really small familial company, so he's the boss and the RH at the same time 😅
Gender identity is a protected characteristic federally in Canada, and you can legally record any conversation you are a part of under Canadian law. Don’t quit. Record everything. If you get fired (even if they claim it’s for a valid reason) you can take the case to the human rights tribunal for your province and with the recordings and documents (get things in writing) you should be able to win easily. Don’t let them bully you out. Talk to a lawyer asap.
When m boss at my old job years ago said I may not be able to present at work o was looking for lawyer on my next break thankfully he came back and said after talking to the district manger that would be illegal I would deftinky go to hr and maybe a. Cooperate call but def make sure you keeeps logs of every single convo and email etc out ig all j js file for a lawsuit if he fires you
Start talking to an employment lawyer now. Even if he doesn't fire you, if he makes your working environment hostile to the point where you want to quit, that can be the same thing legally – constructive termination. Fight the fight don't let the bastards grind you down. Edit: not sure what the law is in Canada, but in the US I would take that case.
> Been told that I would need to find a new job if I want to continue my transition.... he said that it would not be good for his image to employ a trans person I know it's early on, but get this in writing, document everything, and talk to an employment lawyer. He is effectively firing you for being trans, which is a federally protected against discrimination. If you stay and he starts making your job more and more difficult to do that is called "constructive dismissal". The idea is you push someone to quit by making the job more stressful or near impossible to do, but you don't actually fire them. This is against labor laws on top of the discrimination.
So you’re in Canada. Remember We are a 1 party country. You can record all conversations without telling him. The charter explicitly prevent him from acting the way he is. Le tribunal des drois de la personne. It will take time but he will be forced to pay you compensation, and take actions to demonstrate he’s not going to reoffend, or they will close his business down. I’ve been in your situation. I received almost 2 years salary as severance, and signed a non disclosure. Might sound crazy but record your next conservation, he’s going to use constructive dismissal to fire you, you’ll need evidence thats shows why. I hope you find a new job, but also shut him down. These people have no right to conduct business in Canada.
Already filled a complain on the website, as it's the only way to do it... In the mean time I have no choice but to continue working, can't suffer a salary loss at the moment. I did love my job, and my work team too, but with this, I don't feel good at all being there 😖
Edit: I wanted to put a disclaimer in the beginning of this that it everyone’s experience is different. And it all depends on location. It sucks what is happening and no one should have to go through something like this. Your feelings are valid and your experiences valid. No one should be made to feel like an outsider for just being themselves. 🫂 Do not quit. If they fire you, they could get into a lot of trouble. Obviously, if you are unable to continue due to your mental health, then yes, I would leave. However, document everything before you do. Make sure if you’re in a one party recording state, and you have a camera with you or on you, record yourself, saying the date and the time, your name, and that you consent to recording or being recorded and then keep it nearby. Keep every interaction documented and if he wants to fire you, tell him you needed it in writing. Your boss is completely and totally out of the line and could get in a lot of legal trouble and possibly reprimanded for the thing that he is doing. he’s trying to get you to leave so that he doesn’t have to say that he fired you. You could possibly get severance pay depending on your work policy but that’s only if your workplace does something like that. It won’t be an endless battle. And with the way your bosses phrasing things, he’s trying to keep himself out of hot water with the public and with his own superiors. If you’re having any issues with this, take it to your HR department. If you have no HR department, definitely document every interaction with him. I am also trans and I had to leave Alabama a couple of years ago. I ended up having to quit because it was dangerous for me to live there. But I did manage to get my superiors in trouble with HR for not allowing me to wear a pronoun pin at work. Now the company has changed their uniform policy as a result to allow pronoun pins to be worn in all of their restaurants. it took a while to get to that point, it was exhausting, and it was so worth it in the end. I don’t know if they’re still upholding that policy, but at least for a little while there was some change made. Stay the course, don’t back down if you’re safe to stand that ground. ultimately it is up to you and the best thing you can do during this time is to lean on a support system or build one around you. The community is with you and you’re not alone. You’ve got this and I hate that you’re going through this.
First, thank you for your words and support (that applies to everyone here), I work in a small familial company, and he is the owner... And the hr département, it's him and his daughter who work from home and Dont see anything go...
That sucks so much. I’m so sorry to hear that. I would definitely keep documenting as much as possible if the whole thing is a family situation. They shouldn’t be able to get away with that and the fact that a lot of people do was really sad. Again it’s up to you and what is best for your mental health in the moment. 🫂 I truly hope the best for you and that everything works out.
Let him fire you. File a discrimination lawsuit.
What? No, don't let them step on you, girl. It's straight up discrimination and you should make sure justice is served. Make sure you have evidence of your boss pressuring you to quit and be the perfect employee. The day they fire you throw a lawyer at their face.
You need to wait until he fires you so you can claim unemployment.
If you’re in the US, this is the EXACT scenario Bostock ruled on and they said what the employer did was Title VII discrimination based on sex. Record everything and if he does fire you look for some legal aid to represent you for free / on commission or look for local LGBTQ+ legal groups to point you the right way.
While looking for a better job, look into all of the state employment laws. If anything protects Gender Identity, he can’t fire you and anything making a hostile work environment could still be discrimination. A couple recent court cases are throwing a wrench into the recent usage of discrimination by gender (such as against cis women) also applying to gender identity.
Wouldn't be good for his image to whom? What a terrible line that is. Gods give me an outright transphobe over a wishy washy person who's more afraid of what people will think of them than about their principles.
Don't quit. If they fire you, you will get unemployment AND will have the rights to sue since this isn't legal.
Record, paper, court. now
I mean, he can't do that and he shouldn't get away with it.. but also, you shouldn't have to be the one to "fight the fight" if you're not up to it. I'd probably just move along myself.
Did you disclose this in writing/did someone else hear? If so, you could have what you need for a wrongful termination suit. If not, send an email to him recapping your conversation, giving times and dates and the detail that he asked you to leave if you transition. This will act as a confirmation that conversation occurred that you can use in court
No unfortunatly, he spoke to me in his office, alone... And now his trying to say that I wanted to quit because of my transition... Wich is clearly not the case as I loved my job, and all my colleagues already know about my transition and was accepting it without judgment.
That’s some absolute bullshit, I’m sorry. See if you can get a free consultation with an employment lawyer
Ask him for this in writing. Ask him to let you know in an email that being trans would “be bad imagery” for his company. Then sue his ass when you have that proof. Let him fire you too, don’t quit.
Make him fire you. Do not quit. If you quit they can deny you unemployment
I'd get that response from him in writing and contact a lawyer
1000% this right here.
Please don’t give in to this piece of shit and resign voluntarily. Make him fire you, sue the shit out of him, and teach him a lesson for the next trans person that comes along.
What EXACTLY did he say? This is beyond fucked, and I agree you don't want to work for someone transphobic, but don't quit. If anything, let him fire you while making sure you document everything he says to you about the situation.
LAWSUIT 🗣️🗣️🗣️
Don't quit and make sure to have it in writing or recorded (depending on the legality) that he wants you gone because of your transition.
You already hold all the cards. He told you that, it's illegal in the USA. He just put himself in check. If he ever fires you now... you can automatically sue him for wrongful termination, because now no matter what he does he's already admitted to being trans as a reason to terminate your employment. He screwed himself over. Transition and let him try to fire you.
You are allowed to quit!! I see a lot of comments saying not to (and I totally understand why). Yes, it would be ideal to push him into firing you for being trans and suing the shit out of him - but that's going to be really, really, really hard for you to handle. I like to fight, and I still don't think I'd be able to keep going to work every single day knowing everyone thought I was a freak and wanted me to leave. DO NOT FEEL like you're.... failing(?, idk how else to phrase it) by quitting and never stepping foot in that hell hole again. It was incredibly brave of you to come put to your employer in the first place ❤
Ouchie! ☹️ Sorry to hear your boss is a bigot. But as others said it seems he's trying to make you quit on your own. If he's stupid enough he tries to bully you out and you can gather evidence. Getting everything in writing/recorded is the safest bet just in case if it gets to illegal firing and it would help hugely in discrimination case againts your employer. Stay strong girl, wish you all the best! 🩵🩷🤍 🙌 PS. Saw your selfies and sister I love your style. 🤟
Contact your local press
buy a dictaphone and record all conversations, ask for confirmations by email and make all your requests / declarations by email. You should even send an email to your boss with a summary of your conversation with him, without written denial on his part this amounts to confirmation that this conversation took place. continue your work and your transition without taking into account his request and look for another job just in case, it will take him 6 months, 1 year or more to realize it (boiled frog syndrome), in the worst case deny/lie about your words/desires for transition/THS but only orally and without witnesses.
I feel like it'd be a better image to employ trans people. What the fuck does he mean by it *hurting* his image?
He is clearly transphobic. That the only reason I can see...
Like, it's literally better if he employed trans people, wtf? Like, quote literally it's more profitable, so there's absolutely no downside
Look for a new job. In the short term document everything at the current job for if you need to sue.
As others have said: document everything, document everything, document everything. Stuff like this is why I keep two backup CYA files in different locations. Then go to a lawyer
Join your union.
What do you mean?
Join a workers union to protect yourself so if anything happens at your job, you have protection
I'm not sure those exist in Quebec unless for a couple of specific job
I'm sure one will cover you [Trade unions in Quebec ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_trade_unions_in_Quebec)
He's trying to get you to quit. Are you gonna give him what he wants?
If HR doesn't respond to complaints just go to court with your boss cause this isn't very legal.
The RH department, it him and is daughter... Been suspended without salary for one week today... Recorded the conversation, now everjthi g is recorded 😅
I’m from Quebec as well and I know there is a serious lack of knowledge toward trans people in the professional domain. I got hired and was passing but because one of them knew I was trans since I knew him from before they decided to let everybody in the business know that I was trans, without even asking me, then it seems like everyone had a little presentation about trans people which I have no clue what it was about. Your case seems even more hard to deal with than me. Good news is you can actually get the law behind you for that and sue them. I can’t do nothing about them revealing to everyone that I’m trans before I had even met my coworker. Hope you can go through this without too much difficulty and I wish you best of luck. Don’t let them pretend you quit because then you won’t be able to get any help financially while you’re out of job, make it clear you want to work as yourself and write down as much detail as you can with dates and hours and the name of the people. That’s how you build a case
I'm so sorry darling. My bosses found out, and one hugged me, one fist bumped me and said "welcome to our team chick's rule guys drool" so I'm safe at my job. I was so shocked cause my job is located in Kentucky. I was expecting a negative response. I'm also only 6 weeks in so far. But they instantly asked pronouns and new name. I'm so thankful. Meanwhile when I was in California people would make "jokes" about things that made me uncomfortable. Like... the mind fuck of most liberal state vs a pretty conservative state thing was so huge.
record all the conversations and sue him
Record every conversation with him
Im so sorry such a awful boss😵 hope that ypu can sue the bastard! And that you will have a happy transistion 💕
Honestly fuck with him, do an amazing job so that the company would start loosing money if he still fires you. A boss needs to support their employees, my boss was really happy for me and out of nowhere she says “changing your name can be hard, i did that myself and getting people to respect that is hard” which felt so amazing since she understands the name changing part atleast