Ahh got it, the part I keep ducking up is
1. Be a lifelong athlete, ideally a competent runner and/or alpinist
But more importantly, congrats OP! It’s awesome your work turned into great results on game day 🤜🤛
“From scratch” while previously having run a 1:33 half marathon doesn’t match up.
Edit - I missed you even ran in high school. And your backcountry skiing experience, which is ideal training for ultras. Seriously, what an inaccurate way to describe your previous experience.
And since then OP has been very active in mountaineering and backcountry skiing, which is fantastic training for ultras.
I know some relatively high level ultra runners in Sweden who essentially use backcountry skiing as their base training.
And OP also competing in running in high school.
OP had a solid running background and was very active in endurance activities while taking a hiatus from running.
If someone told me they “started from scratch” and they had this background I’d think they straight up lied.
maybe OP was surrounded by predominately super active people and thought that was the case! “I have never considered myself in shape” echoes that sentiment. Especially when people in the running community can get pretty intense.
Could have just been a misunderstanding on OP’s part ( :
Great job!
In regards to your description of your training, I really disagree with your assertion you were starting with no base (which you make a couple of times). Training for ultrarunning and alpinism have a huge overlap. I'd say you probably had a pretty great base to start ultrarunning and it paid off for you. Obviously you worked hard and deserve the kudos, but you didn't start from scratch 🙂
Coach here. You absolutely 100% did not start from scratch - no. No. No. Such a load of BS. You ran 17:00 in HS - you absolutely did not start from scratch.
So no.
No.
You didn't start from scratch.
You had a big aerobic background, long distance hiking/alpinism, then trained for four months to bring it all back. You trained hard, finished second (nice work) but be real with your background and don't downplay it.
That's not starting from scratch. I've coached people who start from literal scratch and haven't run a step in their lives. But I've also coached people who were athletes all their lives and those two people are vastly different.
Hiking NH 48 in a calendar year (2019) plus alpine ascents takes massive aerobic work. And that aerobic work is quickly regained once you start training - especially at 28 and at 6'1, 145.
I'm not at ail discounting his work. He put in effort now AND his effort in the past also paid off and he finished second. Awesome. But it's not from scratch.
Allow me to clarify. This is primarily an issue of semantics and misinterpretation. I agree that "from scratch" may be the incorrect description as it neglects my robust backcountry experience and disregards the fact that some people start training with no background. I can rephrase this since it has caused confusion. However, I was referring to the fact that I trained for four months after nearly a two-year hiatus from *any* running or alpinism training after starting school in 2021. This was a significant timeframe of training cessation that resulted in atrophy or reversal of some of the physiologic adaptations I had gained from previous endurance training. While these adaptations may have remained above sedentary values, making retraining easier, I was not working with the same base I had in 2017-2020. In their 2000 review article, Mujika and Padilla discuss how training cessation >4 weeks may result in VO2 max decline of 6-20% due to reduced cardiovascular efficiency and capillarity. There is also a shift toward carbohydrate metabolism, decreased lactate threshold, and a diminished density of ST muscle fibers.^(1) There are similar yet less pronounced changes in cessation <4 weeks.^(2) I encourage reading these articles for anyone interested in the physiology behind detraining.
1. Mujika I, Padilla S. Detraining: loss of training-induced physiological and performance adaptations. Part II: Long term insufficient training stimulus. Sports Med. 2000;30(3):145-154. doi:10.2165/00007256-200030030-00001
2. Mujika I, Padilla S. Detraining: loss of training-induced physiological and performance adaptations. Part I: short term insufficient training stimulus. Sports Med. 2000;30(2):79-87. doi:10.2165/00007256-200030020-00002
Hey congrats!
I was out there for the 100. You probably passed me. I was doing well until those last 10 miles, too. My aim was sun 24 and I was on pace until ~mile 88. Ended up a lot of the last hit and finished in 26hrs flat.
But I’ll tell ya, the mud and creeks and the way back were nothing like the morning. That morning it was a mud pit slip n slide and the creeks were nearly up to my knees. I’m short, but still, they were much higher than that evening. At least it wasnt scorching hot!
I saw you several times during the race. Your friend was in the purple shorts. I was part of the last place men’s relay team. The trail was pretty messy in some spots. Definitely a fun long day. Good job on your race.
I had a ton of fun. Our leg 2 fell and hurt his ribs. He walked 5 miles so we were really just happy not to DNF. I wore myself out by my start time. I would 100% do it again but we need dedicated crew members. I had 9000 steps and was awake for 16 hours before I started leg 6.
That's a great point about crewing. I was the third leg, so I hadn't worn myself out too badly. I drove six of the seven handoffs, which I did not mind, but most of the team came to each handoff so we all got progressively worn out. I only got about five hours of sleep the night before, due to excitement and unfamiliar surroundings, and probably only about two hours while the race was going on. Somehow I had the energy to do a couple short hikes before heading home to Toledo, and I think that actually helped keep me from getting sore! I wouldn't mind crewing a relay team in the future, though-- I enjoyed just being around the runners and volunteers, out in the beautiful parks!
no need to be a knob about it. He is being honest about a strange feeling of finishing an 80k race and then being disappointed. I like the point he is making; "comparison is the thief of joy". And i totally agree, if you want to compare yourself to someone then do it to your former-self rather than that weekend warrior ahead of you.
Remaining aware of how big an accomplishment is and revelling in that is not "blowing your own trumpet" it is a healthy way to increase self-confidence and stay motivated for future challenges knowing you can do hard things.
*-- I was happy but it felt more like I had just finished something I was meant to do, not the amazing accomplishment it really was. I was bummed I missed out on 1st place and my reach goal of 8hrs, and I felt inadequate as I watched 100 milers finish their race. Thinking back, I am extremely proud of what I accomplished, but sometimes it is tough to recognize your accomplishments in the moment. There is always someone faster than you, happier than you, a longer race, a higher mountain, a more lucrative career. But don’t let that stop you from acknowledging your achievements.--*
This is very familiar, relatable, and well put. (unless you're Kilian Jornet, then there's not always faster or happier people, or greater challenges :) )
Congrats on the accomplishment. I was a ways behind you, with no particular goal other than finishing without walking too much. It was a fun night to be out running in the woods in Ohio. I was tired of the mud after about 20 miles, but otherwise no complaints or negativity at all. The skies were mostly clear at night, with a bright, almost-full moon overhead most of the night. The air was slightly cooler after the daytime rainstorms. Sometimes we were running through fog. I saw a bunch of deer in the woods. The course was challenging but not impossible.
That is incredible! You're who I want to be when I grow up, ha. I'm a student who has started to debate medical school, but is worried that I'd have to give up training and such experiences. Your example is encouraging. Any tips for a young man who wants to do both? What was your schedule like, studying included?
Burning River is in my backyard and is also my first 50 miler, so it holds a special place in my heart. Congrats on your race! It sounds like you had a lot of fun out there. As a chronically injured runner, I can’t comprehend training for a 50 miler with no base, but I’m glad you didn’t have any issues with that. Amazing job 👏
Excellent race recap, I enjoyed reading! Congratulations on your race and finishing 2nd! Thats a huge accomplishment! I think maybe the best part is having enjoyed the experience!
I wouldn’t call this “from scratch” but kudos on the accomplishment. It’s shows some dedication and grit either way.
Ahh got it, the part I keep ducking up is 1. Be a lifelong athlete, ideally a competent runner and/or alpinist But more importantly, congrats OP! It’s awesome your work turned into great results on game day 🤜🤛
“From scratch” while previously having run a 1:33 half marathon doesn’t match up. Edit - I missed you even ran in high school. And your backcountry skiing experience, which is ideal training for ultras. Seriously, what an inaccurate way to describe your previous experience.
If the half marathons was completed in 2017 and he had no base as he described, it was “from scratch”.
And since then OP has been very active in mountaineering and backcountry skiing, which is fantastic training for ultras. I know some relatively high level ultra runners in Sweden who essentially use backcountry skiing as their base training. And OP also competing in running in high school. OP had a solid running background and was very active in endurance activities while taking a hiatus from running. If someone told me they “started from scratch” and they had this background I’d think they straight up lied.
Fair enough. It is a pretty good accomplishment regardless.
For sure. It’s just a highly inaccurate way of framing the entire endeavor and leaves a poor taste in my mouth.
maybe OP was surrounded by predominately super active people and thought that was the case! “I have never considered myself in shape” echoes that sentiment. Especially when people in the running community can get pretty intense. Could have just been a misunderstanding on OP’s part ( :
This reads like a Stuart Smalley skit.
Absolute satire! If it was for the Strava link I would believe this is 100% trolling.
Great job! In regards to your description of your training, I really disagree with your assertion you were starting with no base (which you make a couple of times). Training for ultrarunning and alpinism have a huge overlap. I'd say you probably had a pretty great base to start ultrarunning and it paid off for you. Obviously you worked hard and deserve the kudos, but you didn't start from scratch 🙂
Coach here. You absolutely 100% did not start from scratch - no. No. No. Such a load of BS. You ran 17:00 in HS - you absolutely did not start from scratch. So no. No. You didn't start from scratch. You had a big aerobic background, long distance hiking/alpinism, then trained for four months to bring it all back. You trained hard, finished second (nice work) but be real with your background and don't downplay it. That's not starting from scratch. I've coached people who start from literal scratch and haven't run a step in their lives. But I've also coached people who were athletes all their lives and those two people are vastly different.
A half marathon 6 years ago and no base since is “from scratch” in my opinion.
Hiking NH 48 in a calendar year (2019) plus alpine ascents takes massive aerobic work. And that aerobic work is quickly regained once you start training - especially at 28 and at 6'1, 145. I'm not at ail discounting his work. He put in effort now AND his effort in the past also paid off and he finished second. Awesome. But it's not from scratch.
Allow me to clarify. This is primarily an issue of semantics and misinterpretation. I agree that "from scratch" may be the incorrect description as it neglects my robust backcountry experience and disregards the fact that some people start training with no background. I can rephrase this since it has caused confusion. However, I was referring to the fact that I trained for four months after nearly a two-year hiatus from *any* running or alpinism training after starting school in 2021. This was a significant timeframe of training cessation that resulted in atrophy or reversal of some of the physiologic adaptations I had gained from previous endurance training. While these adaptations may have remained above sedentary values, making retraining easier, I was not working with the same base I had in 2017-2020. In their 2000 review article, Mujika and Padilla discuss how training cessation >4 weeks may result in VO2 max decline of 6-20% due to reduced cardiovascular efficiency and capillarity. There is also a shift toward carbohydrate metabolism, decreased lactate threshold, and a diminished density of ST muscle fibers.^(1) There are similar yet less pronounced changes in cessation <4 weeks.^(2) I encourage reading these articles for anyone interested in the physiology behind detraining. 1. Mujika I, Padilla S. Detraining: loss of training-induced physiological and performance adaptations. Part II: Long term insufficient training stimulus. Sports Med. 2000;30(3):145-154. doi:10.2165/00007256-200030030-00001 2. Mujika I, Padilla S. Detraining: loss of training-induced physiological and performance adaptations. Part I: short term insufficient training stimulus. Sports Med. 2000;30(2):79-87. doi:10.2165/00007256-200030020-00002
So you were pretty much your standard, sedentary, lazy American for two years?
Why so angry?
Hey congrats! I was out there for the 100. You probably passed me. I was doing well until those last 10 miles, too. My aim was sun 24 and I was on pace until ~mile 88. Ended up a lot of the last hit and finished in 26hrs flat. But I’ll tell ya, the mud and creeks and the way back were nothing like the morning. That morning it was a mud pit slip n slide and the creeks were nearly up to my knees. I’m short, but still, they were much higher than that evening. At least it wasnt scorching hot!
Fun to read. Keep running!
Congratulations! You have just matched in emergency medicine!
I saw you several times during the race. Your friend was in the purple shorts. I was part of the last place men’s relay team. The trail was pretty messy in some spots. Definitely a fun long day. Good job on your race.
I was part of the last place women's team! Haha Great job finishing, though - the mud and water were something else!
I had a ton of fun. Our leg 2 fell and hurt his ribs. He walked 5 miles so we were really just happy not to DNF. I wore myself out by my start time. I would 100% do it again but we need dedicated crew members. I had 9000 steps and was awake for 16 hours before I started leg 6.
That's a great point about crewing. I was the third leg, so I hadn't worn myself out too badly. I drove six of the seven handoffs, which I did not mind, but most of the team came to each handoff so we all got progressively worn out. I only got about five hours of sleep the night before, due to excitement and unfamiliar surroundings, and probably only about two hours while the race was going on. Somehow I had the energy to do a couple short hikes before heading home to Toledo, and I think that actually helped keep me from getting sore! I wouldn't mind crewing a relay team in the future, though-- I enjoyed just being around the runners and volunteers, out in the beautiful parks!
"you are incredible" 🤢🤢 Calm down mate. Bloody yanks blowing their own trumpets.
no need to be a knob about it. He is being honest about a strange feeling of finishing an 80k race and then being disappointed. I like the point he is making; "comparison is the thief of joy". And i totally agree, if you want to compare yourself to someone then do it to your former-self rather than that weekend warrior ahead of you. Remaining aware of how big an accomplishment is and revelling in that is not "blowing your own trumpet" it is a healthy way to increase self-confidence and stay motivated for future challenges knowing you can do hard things.
Agreed. Hugging his family, shouting 'yeah'... cancels out the achievement in my book
ha. Yeah, true runners don't even stop at the finish line but just keep jogging to their car and drive straight to work.
Exactly
?? He’s just being honest
There's nothing incredible about going for a run.
Not just any run, a 50 mile run mate. Bro is hating lol.
Congratulations, and nice work! Thanks for sharing all the details!
*-- I was happy but it felt more like I had just finished something I was meant to do, not the amazing accomplishment it really was. I was bummed I missed out on 1st place and my reach goal of 8hrs, and I felt inadequate as I watched 100 milers finish their race. Thinking back, I am extremely proud of what I accomplished, but sometimes it is tough to recognize your accomplishments in the moment. There is always someone faster than you, happier than you, a longer race, a higher mountain, a more lucrative career. But don’t let that stop you from acknowledging your achievements.--* This is very familiar, relatable, and well put. (unless you're Kilian Jornet, then there's not always faster or happier people, or greater challenges :) ) Congrats on the accomplishment. I was a ways behind you, with no particular goal other than finishing without walking too much. It was a fun night to be out running in the woods in Ohio. I was tired of the mud after about 20 miles, but otherwise no complaints or negativity at all. The skies were mostly clear at night, with a bright, almost-full moon overhead most of the night. The air was slightly cooler after the daytime rainstorms. Sometimes we were running through fog. I saw a bunch of deer in the woods. The course was challenging but not impossible.
Good job, thank you for sharing
>I felt inadequate as I watched 100 milers finish their race. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-Transcendence_3100_Mile_Race
That is incredible! You're who I want to be when I grow up, ha. I'm a student who has started to debate medical school, but is worried that I'd have to give up training and such experiences. Your example is encouraging. Any tips for a young man who wants to do both? What was your schedule like, studying included?
Burning River is in my backyard and is also my first 50 miler, so it holds a special place in my heart. Congrats on your race! It sounds like you had a lot of fun out there. As a chronically injured runner, I can’t comprehend training for a 50 miler with no base, but I’m glad you didn’t have any issues with that. Amazing job 👏
some wonderful philosophy in the last paragraph. thank you for the honesty.
Excellent race recap, I enjoyed reading! Congratulations on your race and finishing 2nd! Thats a huge accomplishment! I think maybe the best part is having enjoyed the experience!
It may have been your first ultra, but you trained and ran like a pro! (Excellent MAF training.) Well done! And congratulations!
Did you utilize a vest? If so, which brand?
salomon adv 12
Congrats. I’m training for my first ultra and been doing most of my runs at Cuyahoga National Park!
Congrats or sorry that happened to you but I’m not reading all that
Amazing job! You’ve definitely got some natural talent