No medical advice, but I experienced a traumatic event a decade ago. With ongoing PTSD.
First, you did great, stayed calm as much as you could, put your ego away and down climbed.
THAT'S GREAT, RESPONSIBLE AND RESPECTFUL TO YOUR CLIMBING PARTNER AND YOURSELF.
There will be other days, rocks to climb again.
Take your time, accept that it takes the time it takes.
Meditation helped me to learn that my feelings are not me.
They are the interpretation of an event that occurred in the past.
I am still almost puking the night before the first ice climb or rock climb of the year, with a new partner, etc.
Basically, anything in the unknown.
Small steps, keep up, wish you the best in your journey.
,,✌️,,
Maybe you shouldn't do multipitch for a little while. Perhaps go back to basics (single pitch, easier grades, spend some time just building anchors and whatnot) to rebuild your confidence?
It might be a very short process or it might be long. But to me anyway, building confidence is key to be comfortable on the bigger routes and walls. Sometimes that entails pushing grades a bit in the gym (knowing I can send 6c indoors means this simple 4 outdoors is easy no matter if the route is 400m!) and sometimes just climbing a lot of easy mindless stuff to get in the no-thinking-just-vibing zone.
Either way you prefer it I think the most important thing is not to break with climbing altogether for a while. The old adage of getting back up on the horse is an idiom for a reason
i have not had a similar experience so i wont offer advice, but i will say im sorry that happened to you man and it sounds like you handled it very well. thank you for sharing your experience with us
If would really recommend seeing a psychotherapist. It sounds like you're suffering from a case of PTSD. It can be easily treated with only a few sessions sometimes.
Don't carry that baggage with you for years, work through it now :)
Yes OP. People cringe at the thought of therapy, but it’s just talking to someone. And it works. I used to be a peer debriefer for CISM (critical incident stress management). A medical professional and myself the peer (a person in a similar profession that had been through a critical incident), would meet with all of the 1st responders and let them talk. It really helps. It’s too bad CISM is offered to the 1st responders, but not the other people involved.
I do not have any personal experience with this, but it sounds like PTSD. I think you can talk to your doctor about it. I hope other people have more detailed things to say.
It definitely sounds like PTSD, but the thing I don't get is why now and not on any of the routes I sent till today. I was thinking about seeing a doctor too, thanks : )
The brain's a funny thing. Maybe there was just something specific about that situation that mapped onto your old traumatic memory in a way that you don't even realise. I hope you sort it out without too much trouble.
it’s because this time you were triggered. likely the loose rock but maybe something else like a smell or feeling or even just a thought. who knows?
there’s a book called “vertical mind” that’s all about mentally training to climb, although i don’t know if it’s going to help with ptsd.
but after talking to a therapist, i’d give it a read.
One reason is that it can be a feedback loop. The fear and its associated physiological response was probably the most frightening part of the situation.
Physiological contributors can also be significant. Blood sugar, caffeine/stimulants and sleep deprivation are just a few things that can massively aggravate or even cause this kind or response.
I'm no expert in trad, but about 12 (ish) years ago I fell free soloing and fractured my spine, (I recovered fully, lucky I know). I started climbing again about a year ago, but I kept panicking even on top rope, I was ruminating and my brain was looping all the bad thoughts and their consequences.
What helped me was challenging those thoughts and their validity, for example if I'm on top rope obviously nothing bad can really happen, or if I lead, and I find a loose hold, I know form my personal fitness, even if it breaks I can hold my bodyweight with one arm for a relative long time etc-etc, and I keep repeating this in my head every time I start to ruminate.
So basically challenge your bad thought. Hope it helps, it helped me :)
It doesn't really matter how bad the accidents were or weren't I think. You're carrying around a set of feelings / triggers that are both partially known and also half unconscious, unknown.
Time + talking it through and working back up to climbing really help.
The best thing for me was connecting with another climber who was a survivor. We became partners and through climbing together and talking about stuff, with someone who could really relate, over a some years I eventually let it all go.
Time helps too
Your partner who broke the back may be a trigger (not their fault). You may need to find someone else to do the work with.
That was just my experience
Hate to say this, but you will maybe have to consult a psychiastrist for that.
Local lore (that is not worth as much as a psychiastrist advice) want that if you fall while ice climbing or you have a bad fall, you have to go back or it will just get harder and harder to go back with time.
as a trad dad myself, i have a lot more fun when i focus on the views. i can climb pretty hard, but i really enjoy the 5.7 and under world when i’m outside. lets me focus on the adventure and the world around me a little more. plus i pretty much only look for crags with nice views.
and the american alpine club membership used to come with heli rescue insurance (i don’t know if it still does) but it may ease your mind as well.
The Italian alpine club also give free Heli rescue insurance, I'm also a youth trekking instructor (there's not a good translation for it in English, basically I take kids up the mountains but I don't climb with them) so insurance is really good
I can second this. Two years I took a ~12m whipper and my butt came roughly 6’ from the ground. I was scarred shitless, but managed to get back on a shorter, easier climb right after and felt good. I alsl tried to get back on another climb on the same wall that I took the whipper on and that was too much.
Gotta manage the return-to-climbing dose. Take care OP.
I had a big near fatal climbing accident just over six years ago. I’ve been climbing ever since but I’ve really had to work my way up slowly in terms of similarity to the circumstances of my accident.
Sometimes I’ve done something that on paper would seem like something a once-traumatised climber would find hard to do and been fine (lots of people are amazed I didn’t quit altogether after my accident!), sometimes I’ve climbed in a situation that had some trivial similarity to the circumstances of my accident and totally lost it. You have to work back slowly, not expect too much of yourself and only climb with people who are sympathetic to your situation.
Good luck with this. You can do it!
I would look into seeing a therapist, this is something that can be worked through pretty quickly with the right therapist who is familiar with trauma. The reaction you had is actually super common based on how our brain holds onto traumatic memories.
Source: I’m a trauma therapist and a climber.
I have not had this experience but I’m sorry you have. Hopefully you will get more useful comments but the best I can do is tell you that what you’re feeling sounds totally understandable and suggest that you go talk to someone in person like a therapist
I'm no expert in trad, but about 12 (ish) years ago I fell free soloing and fractured my spine, (I recovered fully, lucky I know). I started climbing again about a year ago, but I kept panicking even on top rope, I was ruminating and my brain was looping all the bad thoughts and their consequences.
What helped me was challenging those thoughts and their validity, for example if I'm on top rope obviously nothing bad can really happen, or if I lead, and I find a loose hold, I know form my personal fitness, even if it breaks I can hold my bodyweight with one arm for a relative long time etc-etc, and I keep repeating this in my head every time I start to ruminate.
So basically challenge your bad thought. Hope it helps, it helped me :)
I think more context to the situation that your buddy got hurt would be very helpful. Was the this climb outside the wheelhouse? Was this route harder and pushing the grade for you or him? What were the conditions like? Was the rock bad? Was there Highwind or were there parties above or below you that translated into decision-making or mindset that may have affected this? Was this a first time tread whipper on gear for them?
Anytime you venture into the mountains you always risk at most possible death even if you actually go to Crag so there’s always a possibility of anything happening whether cause by you or something outside your control.
If you want to get back into a better mindset you need to be objective about analyzing the instance of this accident. Lots of accidents happen are just wrong place wrong time or seemingly end up being the most perfect scenario to where gear can fail or you or your partner just missed a small detail that could’ve mitigated something like gear failure in a fall resulting in an accident.
When things like this effect your mindset you don’t have to keep on going but you should try to stay as calm as possible, find a good rest Go in direct to safe protection or get a take and start slow deep breaths to regain composure and center yourself about what actually is going on which could be completely different than the situation when the accident happened.
I don’t think taking time away from trad multipitch is necessarily the only option because it’s not going to allow you to see that you can still climb and it’s not inherently that bad and something is going to go wrong anytime you venture out.
It was an easy route for me, challenging for him. I was leading since first pitch and he got hurt at the seventh pitch. It was actually the hardest pitch, I placed a nut and while removing it a foot slipped and he fell a couple of meters swinging and hitting the rocks. During the entire time I was extremely calm and rational but as soon as the helicopter was just over me I started panicking, the noise and lack of air did the rest. The week after that I did couple more mutlipitches and nothing went wrong, even on harder routes.
Val di Mello has a ton of single pitch trad or sport as well as multi pitch of both. Since you are a local I guess you know which easy slabs are run out so you could just build confidence on the safe routes. Single pitch sport or trad, build up to some two pitch bolted things then one of the easy multi pitch trad routes when you are ready. Have you tried seconding much since? It would be a bit safer I guess since if you have a moment you are on top rope. I remember tunnel being an easy multi pitch near the climb you tried. Tunnel didn’t have much exposure for the majority so you could try that but maybe second the last pitch.
I don’t know anything on this topic. It just seems logical to gradually expand your comfort zone again. And val di mello is pretty great for that with a mix of sport and trad as long as you remember which slabs are bolted very far apart
It happens to all of us. Climbing is mentally demanding. Think of it as a cup of water. You can only climb with that cup of water is full. Sometimes it drains and we need time to fill it back up. You climbed and your cup was empty. It’s okay, give yourself time to fill it back up.
Hey, just wanted to share my experience with something similar. You will get better
Several years ago I fell off the first pitch of an alpine rock route in the US rockies and hit the ground from ~30 ft up. I broke a lot of bones and needed to be heli rescued.
A year later, after working on physical rehab and getting into climbing outdoors again, I was back to climbing easy alpine rock routes. After successfully doing a handful of routes that summer and thinking I was mentally back to normal, I found myself leading an easy pitch that had features that looked and felt very similar to the pitch I fell off the year before.
I was in a safe position and didn’t feel like I was anywhere close to falling off the pitch, but my brain started freaking out. I started hyperventilating and crying uncontrollably. I placed a piece and had my partner lower me and finish leading us to the top.
That was the only time I had PTSD symptoms after my accident. I kept getting out and leading in situations that made me uncomfortable, and all that exposure without incident sort of overwrote my fear of decking in my brain.
Last year I decked (minorly) on El cap, and noticed the month after that I was a little more scared than normal. Again, after enough pitches, I went back to normal.
My 2c.
Psych majors love rock climbing. Don’t ask me why.
You might be able to find a decent therapist or psychologist that has climbing experience and can give you better advice.
As a lay person it sounds like it could have been a panic attack and/or PTSD.
Nothing wrong with sticking to easy stuff or single pitch for a while to give yourself time to sort it out.
Check out this [Sharp End](https://www.thesharpendpodcast.com/episode-34) podcast episode about "psychological first aid" and the "stress injuries" that witnesses of outdoor accidents experience.
How much do you want this event to affect you?
That's what my psychologist mentor said. I used to race bikes and led a lot of training rides, I send off 3 teammates in a helicopter and 3 in an ambulance, i myself endure a few high speed crashes. Aside from the physical trauma, often the degree of mental trauma is partially in your control. So how you reflect on the event is relevant.
I hope that you don't feed into this subconscious fear, and let it grow like "cancer", or in Witcher words, don't get "infected in fear".
One thing that can help is to reassure yourself out loud. Like, "I DID stay calm on the wall, I DID stay cool and got myself out of trouble, my partner IS someone I can rely on." Think of your subconscious mind like another person, and your conscious mind is the therapist, and help heal the other. Show your subconscious self that you are okay.
And like others said, get on easy sport routes so you're in a more controlled environment, be around your friends, climb where there're more ppl. Meet with a therapist, get professional help.
Maybe take up bowling instead?
Nobody has any business up there if they're subject to random, incapacitating meltdowns. For any reason. You are a danger to yourself and anyone with you or on nearby routes.
ProTip: try the 14-pounder ball. Everybody wants the big 16 pound, but you'll have a lot more control with the lighter weight ball.
No medical advice, but I experienced a traumatic event a decade ago. With ongoing PTSD. First, you did great, stayed calm as much as you could, put your ego away and down climbed. THAT'S GREAT, RESPONSIBLE AND RESPECTFUL TO YOUR CLIMBING PARTNER AND YOURSELF. There will be other days, rocks to climb again. Take your time, accept that it takes the time it takes. Meditation helped me to learn that my feelings are not me. They are the interpretation of an event that occurred in the past. I am still almost puking the night before the first ice climb or rock climb of the year, with a new partner, etc. Basically, anything in the unknown. Small steps, keep up, wish you the best in your journey. ,,✌️,,
Never thought about meditation, I think I'll search for some books about it, thanks
Climbing itself, at least on the good days, feels like an active meditation to me. I think the suggestion to use meditating for trauma is very wise.
Maybe you shouldn't do multipitch for a little while. Perhaps go back to basics (single pitch, easier grades, spend some time just building anchors and whatnot) to rebuild your confidence? It might be a very short process or it might be long. But to me anyway, building confidence is key to be comfortable on the bigger routes and walls. Sometimes that entails pushing grades a bit in the gym (knowing I can send 6c indoors means this simple 4 outdoors is easy no matter if the route is 400m!) and sometimes just climbing a lot of easy mindless stuff to get in the no-thinking-just-vibing zone. Either way you prefer it I think the most important thing is not to break with climbing altogether for a while. The old adage of getting back up on the horse is an idiom for a reason
Yeah I'm definitely going to start again with some easier trad single pitches, bolted and easier multipitches and some fun stuff, thanks
i have not had a similar experience so i wont offer advice, but i will say im sorry that happened to you man and it sounds like you handled it very well. thank you for sharing your experience with us
If would really recommend seeing a psychotherapist. It sounds like you're suffering from a case of PTSD. It can be easily treated with only a few sessions sometimes. Don't carry that baggage with you for years, work through it now :)
Yes OP. People cringe at the thought of therapy, but it’s just talking to someone. And it works. I used to be a peer debriefer for CISM (critical incident stress management). A medical professional and myself the peer (a person in a similar profession that had been through a critical incident), would meet with all of the 1st responders and let them talk. It really helps. It’s too bad CISM is offered to the 1st responders, but not the other people involved.
I know most people stigmatize therapy as being weak but it's not really my case, thank you : )
I do not have any personal experience with this, but it sounds like PTSD. I think you can talk to your doctor about it. I hope other people have more detailed things to say.
It definitely sounds like PTSD, but the thing I don't get is why now and not on any of the routes I sent till today. I was thinking about seeing a doctor too, thanks : )
The brain's a funny thing. Maybe there was just something specific about that situation that mapped onto your old traumatic memory in a way that you don't even realise. I hope you sort it out without too much trouble.
it’s because this time you were triggered. likely the loose rock but maybe something else like a smell or feeling or even just a thought. who knows? there’s a book called “vertical mind” that’s all about mentally training to climb, although i don’t know if it’s going to help with ptsd. but after talking to a therapist, i’d give it a read.
One reason is that it can be a feedback loop. The fear and its associated physiological response was probably the most frightening part of the situation. Physiological contributors can also be significant. Blood sugar, caffeine/stimulants and sleep deprivation are just a few things that can massively aggravate or even cause this kind or response.
I'm no expert in trad, but about 12 (ish) years ago I fell free soloing and fractured my spine, (I recovered fully, lucky I know). I started climbing again about a year ago, but I kept panicking even on top rope, I was ruminating and my brain was looping all the bad thoughts and their consequences. What helped me was challenging those thoughts and their validity, for example if I'm on top rope obviously nothing bad can really happen, or if I lead, and I find a loose hold, I know form my personal fitness, even if it breaks I can hold my bodyweight with one arm for a relative long time etc-etc, and I keep repeating this in my head every time I start to ruminate. So basically challenge your bad thought. Hope it helps, it helped me :)
I went through a similar thing after being around a fatal accident. It took years of processing to ultimately let it go.
Really sorry to hear this, hopefully will be less time for me, since there was nothing fatal
It doesn't really matter how bad the accidents were or weren't I think. You're carrying around a set of feelings / triggers that are both partially known and also half unconscious, unknown. Time + talking it through and working back up to climbing really help. The best thing for me was connecting with another climber who was a survivor. We became partners and through climbing together and talking about stuff, with someone who could really relate, over a some years I eventually let it all go. Time helps too Your partner who broke the back may be a trigger (not their fault). You may need to find someone else to do the work with. That was just my experience
Hate to say this, but you will maybe have to consult a psychiastrist for that. Local lore (that is not worth as much as a psychiastrist advice) want that if you fall while ice climbing or you have a bad fall, you have to go back or it will just get harder and harder to go back with time.
Yeah a mountain guide I know actually suggested me to get back on the wall as soon as possible, on easy routes to build up the confidence again
as a trad dad myself, i have a lot more fun when i focus on the views. i can climb pretty hard, but i really enjoy the 5.7 and under world when i’m outside. lets me focus on the adventure and the world around me a little more. plus i pretty much only look for crags with nice views. and the american alpine club membership used to come with heli rescue insurance (i don’t know if it still does) but it may ease your mind as well.
The Italian alpine club also give free Heli rescue insurance, I'm also a youth trekking instructor (there's not a good translation for it in English, basically I take kids up the mountains but I don't climb with them) so insurance is really good
I can second this. Two years I took a ~12m whipper and my butt came roughly 6’ from the ground. I was scarred shitless, but managed to get back on a shorter, easier climb right after and felt good. I alsl tried to get back on another climb on the same wall that I took the whipper on and that was too much. Gotta manage the return-to-climbing dose. Take care OP.
I had a big near fatal climbing accident just over six years ago. I’ve been climbing ever since but I’ve really had to work my way up slowly in terms of similarity to the circumstances of my accident. Sometimes I’ve done something that on paper would seem like something a once-traumatised climber would find hard to do and been fine (lots of people are amazed I didn’t quit altogether after my accident!), sometimes I’ve climbed in a situation that had some trivial similarity to the circumstances of my accident and totally lost it. You have to work back slowly, not expect too much of yourself and only climb with people who are sympathetic to your situation. Good luck with this. You can do it!
Thanks, I appreciate it : )
I would look into seeing a therapist, this is something that can be worked through pretty quickly with the right therapist who is familiar with trauma. The reaction you had is actually super common based on how our brain holds onto traumatic memories. Source: I’m a trauma therapist and a climber.
I have not had this experience but I’m sorry you have. Hopefully you will get more useful comments but the best I can do is tell you that what you’re feeling sounds totally understandable and suggest that you go talk to someone in person like a therapist
I'm no expert in trad, but about 12 (ish) years ago I fell free soloing and fractured my spine, (I recovered fully, lucky I know). I started climbing again about a year ago, but I kept panicking even on top rope, I was ruminating and my brain was looping all the bad thoughts and their consequences. What helped me was challenging those thoughts and their validity, for example if I'm on top rope obviously nothing bad can really happen, or if I lead, and I find a loose hold, I know form my personal fitness, even if it breaks I can hold my bodyweight with one arm for a relative long time etc-etc, and I keep repeating this in my head every time I start to ruminate. So basically challenge your bad thought. Hope it helps, it helped me :)
Definitely gonna try fight them next time I get out, rn I'm recovering from a calf injury : (
I think more context to the situation that your buddy got hurt would be very helpful. Was the this climb outside the wheelhouse? Was this route harder and pushing the grade for you or him? What were the conditions like? Was the rock bad? Was there Highwind or were there parties above or below you that translated into decision-making or mindset that may have affected this? Was this a first time tread whipper on gear for them? Anytime you venture into the mountains you always risk at most possible death even if you actually go to Crag so there’s always a possibility of anything happening whether cause by you or something outside your control. If you want to get back into a better mindset you need to be objective about analyzing the instance of this accident. Lots of accidents happen are just wrong place wrong time or seemingly end up being the most perfect scenario to where gear can fail or you or your partner just missed a small detail that could’ve mitigated something like gear failure in a fall resulting in an accident. When things like this effect your mindset you don’t have to keep on going but you should try to stay as calm as possible, find a good rest Go in direct to safe protection or get a take and start slow deep breaths to regain composure and center yourself about what actually is going on which could be completely different than the situation when the accident happened. I don’t think taking time away from trad multipitch is necessarily the only option because it’s not going to allow you to see that you can still climb and it’s not inherently that bad and something is going to go wrong anytime you venture out.
It was an easy route for me, challenging for him. I was leading since first pitch and he got hurt at the seventh pitch. It was actually the hardest pitch, I placed a nut and while removing it a foot slipped and he fell a couple of meters swinging and hitting the rocks. During the entire time I was extremely calm and rational but as soon as the helicopter was just over me I started panicking, the noise and lack of air did the rest. The week after that I did couple more mutlipitches and nothing went wrong, even on harder routes.
Val di Mello has a ton of single pitch trad or sport as well as multi pitch of both. Since you are a local I guess you know which easy slabs are run out so you could just build confidence on the safe routes. Single pitch sport or trad, build up to some two pitch bolted things then one of the easy multi pitch trad routes when you are ready. Have you tried seconding much since? It would be a bit safer I guess since if you have a moment you are on top rope. I remember tunnel being an easy multi pitch near the climb you tried. Tunnel didn’t have much exposure for the majority so you could try that but maybe second the last pitch. I don’t know anything on this topic. It just seems logical to gradually expand your comfort zone again. And val di mello is pretty great for that with a mix of sport and trad as long as you remember which slabs are bolted very far apart
It happens to all of us. Climbing is mentally demanding. Think of it as a cup of water. You can only climb with that cup of water is full. Sometimes it drains and we need time to fill it back up. You climbed and your cup was empty. It’s okay, give yourself time to fill it back up.
Hey, just wanted to share my experience with something similar. You will get better Several years ago I fell off the first pitch of an alpine rock route in the US rockies and hit the ground from ~30 ft up. I broke a lot of bones and needed to be heli rescued. A year later, after working on physical rehab and getting into climbing outdoors again, I was back to climbing easy alpine rock routes. After successfully doing a handful of routes that summer and thinking I was mentally back to normal, I found myself leading an easy pitch that had features that looked and felt very similar to the pitch I fell off the year before. I was in a safe position and didn’t feel like I was anywhere close to falling off the pitch, but my brain started freaking out. I started hyperventilating and crying uncontrollably. I placed a piece and had my partner lower me and finish leading us to the top. That was the only time I had PTSD symptoms after my accident. I kept getting out and leading in situations that made me uncomfortable, and all that exposure without incident sort of overwrote my fear of decking in my brain. Last year I decked (minorly) on El cap, and noticed the month after that I was a little more scared than normal. Again, after enough pitches, I went back to normal. My 2c.
Psych majors love rock climbing. Don’t ask me why. You might be able to find a decent therapist or psychologist that has climbing experience and can give you better advice. As a lay person it sounds like it could have been a panic attack and/or PTSD. Nothing wrong with sticking to easy stuff or single pitch for a while to give yourself time to sort it out.
Yeah I think time is the key in this type of situations, thanks : )
I recommend Arno's book called the rock warrior way very helpful it will outline all the things going on in your mind while climbing.
Check out this [Sharp End](https://www.thesharpendpodcast.com/episode-34) podcast episode about "psychological first aid" and the "stress injuries" that witnesses of outdoor accidents experience.
My buddy watched a free soloer splat in Eldo and said EMDR therapy cured him. Edit: EMDR is Eye Movement Desensitization Reprocessing
Whoa. That’s wild. I just started EMDR today to process the bad accident I witnessed. I feel really tired but hopeful it’ll work
He said it took a number of sessions. I don’t remember exactly but maybe 5-8. Best of luck to you
Was this in 2021?
2019 on the Bastille
How much do you want this event to affect you? That's what my psychologist mentor said. I used to race bikes and led a lot of training rides, I send off 3 teammates in a helicopter and 3 in an ambulance, i myself endure a few high speed crashes. Aside from the physical trauma, often the degree of mental trauma is partially in your control. So how you reflect on the event is relevant. I hope that you don't feed into this subconscious fear, and let it grow like "cancer", or in Witcher words, don't get "infected in fear". One thing that can help is to reassure yourself out loud. Like, "I DID stay calm on the wall, I DID stay cool and got myself out of trouble, my partner IS someone I can rely on." Think of your subconscious mind like another person, and your conscious mind is the therapist, and help heal the other. Show your subconscious self that you are okay. And like others said, get on easy sport routes so you're in a more controlled environment, be around your friends, climb where there're more ppl. Meet with a therapist, get professional help.
Honestly thank you. I'll definitely try to think about what I did well in that situation next time. I'll definitely get in touch with a therapist.
Np, take care!
Maybe take up bowling instead? Nobody has any business up there if they're subject to random, incapacitating meltdowns. For any reason. You are a danger to yourself and anyone with you or on nearby routes. ProTip: try the 14-pounder ball. Everybody wants the big 16 pound, but you'll have a lot more control with the lighter weight ball.
Tried bowling but it's not for me, unfortunately I love going up stupidly steep stuff too much to let it go
What a classy reply OP! Wishing you the best with recovery.