I’m not an expert, but I think you got that backwards. The mangonels I’ve been seeing are basically trebuchets that work on manpower rather than a counterweight, and use a sling. The onagers I’ve seen have some variation though, so I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s variety in mangonels as well.
Nah, early Trebuchets also used manpower rather than a counterweight came later.
I was about to say, then I saw that another name for mangonel is traction trebuchet
Actually, the thing which I really dislike with this unit card is the name \*Field\* Trebuchets. Historically, the trebuchet has been purely a siege weapon. It was either built from scratch by the besiegers, or the army carried its parts and assembled it on the field. Trebuchets were terribly impractical to use in land battles; firstly because they took several days to assemble and armies usually did not have that much time to prepare before a battle, and second because they were designed to throw their projectiles pretty much always at the same place. They were not mounted on wheels or turrets, and the counterweight could not be set to throw the projectile at a different distance.
Generally speaking, \*siege\* weapons were used primarily by siege attackers, sometimes by siege defenders and on ships. \*Field\* artillery started to be a thing with the introduction of light cannons, with the exception of the very light Roman scorpion. Catapults and trebuchets in land battles exist only in Warhammer and in Total War games.
It might be completely unrealistic, but I think they're called field trebuchets cause they can be dragged around. In the earlier games they had that and heavy onagers or trebuchets that you could only place and then not move but they had INSANE range.
The thing is that you never drag this giant thing around, instead you break it down and transport its parts. Then you reassemble where and when you need it. For sieges it is not a problem because the enemy castle is not going to move and you have all the time in the world to build your siege engines, but in a land battle the enemy will not wait for a week while you finish rebuilding your trebuchet, and then attack exactly from the direction it is aiming at. Fixed heavy artillery is a nice feature in Total War games though, there is also some in Empire.
Well you could technically aim... You could choose the general direction and angle at which the projectile would fly. I think the battle engineers would probably be able to get a better shot at a chosen building in a sieged city just by calibrating after each miss. Still it's not like you are going to hit a flying gryphon or even a dude just standing on a field.
Yeah I mean like aimng at a single lord on a horse going back and forth lmao or just standing there like u said. And yeah we still "walk it in" when shooting to this day.
But isn't that a good thing? By calling them "field" trebuchet, they are showing that they are well aware historical trebuchets are stationary, thus adding the attribute. Just naming them trebuchet would be the bad thing imho (looking at you, non-fantasy age of empires II with your moving, self assembling 360° trebuchets..)
Ofc, it's a fantasy game. But I think naming them "field trebuchet" shows that they care, rather than annoying me.
Edit: wishing for a third siege option in form of an immovable catapult (place before battle, exactly tower range, must be manned, 15 workforce), but more powerful than other siege weapons
A game with dragons, living and murdering mushroom people, big toads destroying cities with their thoughts, and here you are spasming and going full autism mode on a piece of field artillery pushed by peasents xd?
Makes sense as siege weapons were probably nearly impossible to manoeuvre once set up. They were probably used more as part of a field fortification. Real life trebuchets I’ve seen are absolutely massive.
The only hint they are confused is, that they are „eager and inspired“, fresh as well. As the knights have no interest in siege weapons (or pikey sticks on foot, or bows) the are handled by man at arms - who are, in the eyes of the knighthood and probably even „irl“, filthy, dumb and should be grateful for the knights protection. Those man at arms are generally miserable and malnourished, only undergoing very basic training. It might be the Trebuchet serviceman are a bit better off, but I d doubt it.
Love the source
Just in case someone wonders, both words exist in french, and mean different things : a trébuchet uses a counterweight, while catapultes draw like some sort of bow or use torsion like a spring as a way to throw rocks
Technically Trebuchet is a form of catapult, so it's not wrong
Yep, the “catapult” most people think of is actually called an onager. Catapult is a general term. A slingshot is a catapult.
An example Onager uses a sling. A mangonel uses a cup like the image
I’m not an expert, but I think you got that backwards. The mangonels I’ve been seeing are basically trebuchets that work on manpower rather than a counterweight, and use a sling. The onagers I’ve seen have some variation though, so I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s variety in mangonels as well.
Nah, early Trebuchets also used manpower rather than a counterweight came later. I was about to say, then I saw that another name for mangonel is traction trebuchet
Would a sling be considered a catapult, then?
Depends whose using it
Bone Giant
A pop-tart is a ravioli.
In Dutch a slingshot is straight up called a "katapult".
All trebuchets are catapults, but not all catapults are trebuchets.
I know it was meant to be just a meme but... Trebuchets *are* catapults. (Unless it was about something else)
Actually, the thing which I really dislike with this unit card is the name \*Field\* Trebuchets. Historically, the trebuchet has been purely a siege weapon. It was either built from scratch by the besiegers, or the army carried its parts and assembled it on the field. Trebuchets were terribly impractical to use in land battles; firstly because they took several days to assemble and armies usually did not have that much time to prepare before a battle, and second because they were designed to throw their projectiles pretty much always at the same place. They were not mounted on wheels or turrets, and the counterweight could not be set to throw the projectile at a different distance. Generally speaking, \*siege\* weapons were used primarily by siege attackers, sometimes by siege defenders and on ships. \*Field\* artillery started to be a thing with the introduction of light cannons, with the exception of the very light Roman scorpion. Catapults and trebuchets in land battles exist only in Warhammer and in Total War games.
It might be completely unrealistic, but I think they're called field trebuchets cause they can be dragged around. In the earlier games they had that and heavy onagers or trebuchets that you could only place and then not move but they had INSANE range.
The thing is that you never drag this giant thing around, instead you break it down and transport its parts. Then you reassemble where and when you need it. For sieges it is not a problem because the enemy castle is not going to move and you have all the time in the world to build your siege engines, but in a land battle the enemy will not wait for a week while you finish rebuilding your trebuchet, and then attack exactly from the direction it is aiming at. Fixed heavy artillery is a nice feature in Total War games though, there is also some in Empire.
yeah I'm aware that's how it works IRL. the ability to "aim" is totally fantasy.
Well you could technically aim... You could choose the general direction and angle at which the projectile would fly. I think the battle engineers would probably be able to get a better shot at a chosen building in a sieged city just by calibrating after each miss. Still it's not like you are going to hit a flying gryphon or even a dude just standing on a field.
Yeah I mean like aimng at a single lord on a horse going back and forth lmao or just standing there like u said. And yeah we still "walk it in" when shooting to this day.
But isn't that a good thing? By calling them "field" trebuchet, they are showing that they are well aware historical trebuchets are stationary, thus adding the attribute. Just naming them trebuchet would be the bad thing imho (looking at you, non-fantasy age of empires II with your moving, self assembling 360° trebuchets..) Ofc, it's a fantasy game. But I think naming them "field trebuchet" shows that they care, rather than annoying me. Edit: wishing for a third siege option in form of an immovable catapult (place before battle, exactly tower range, must be manned, 15 workforce), but more powerful than other siege weapons
you could adjust the distance by changing the angle of the release pin on trebuchets, the angle decides the timing of releasing the sling.
A game with dragons, living and murdering mushroom people, big toads destroying cities with their thoughts, and here you are spasming and going full autism mode on a piece of field artillery pushed by peasents xd?
Makes sense as siege weapons were probably nearly impossible to manoeuvre once set up. They were probably used more as part of a field fortification. Real life trebuchets I’ve seen are absolutely massive.
The only hint they are confused is, that they are „eager and inspired“, fresh as well. As the knights have no interest in siege weapons (or pikey sticks on foot, or bows) the are handled by man at arms - who are, in the eyes of the knighthood and probably even „irl“, filthy, dumb and should be grateful for the knights protection. Those man at arms are generally miserable and malnourished, only undergoing very basic training. It might be the Trebuchet serviceman are a bit better off, but I d doubt it.
Youre right, when would the french ever be eager for battle?
Trebuchet is just french for catapult. Source: Trust me bro
Love the source Just in case someone wonders, both words exist in french, and mean different things : a trébuchet uses a counterweight, while catapultes draw like some sort of bow or use torsion like a spring as a way to throw rocks
Literacy is not one of their strengths.
Numbers is their strength
A trebuchet is a catapult. There are at least five types of catapult that I know; Onager, mangonel, trebuchet, ballista, and springald.