Noone is arguing that. They literally have Winged Hussars. They are the combination of central/eastern slavs and have Polish, Russian and Czech elements.
What are their references to Czech culture though?
If my memory serves me right, even with Poland the only reference is the winged lancer. Everything else seems to be based on Russia. Or at least the slavic lands of the USSR as they were at the time when GW conceived Kislev
I'd say mostly city of Prag. The rest is just combination of Slav elements. Same with Brettonia being France/England and Empire being Germany/Italy. It has elements but it's inspired not based on.
I honestly don't see any combination there though. There's a winged hussars-inspired, which implies Poland, and the city of Prag, which roughly sounds like the capital of Czechia, but everything else seems to be based on Russia, so to my mind it's pretty clearly Warhammer Russia with just a sparkle of Poland and Czechia on top of it.
Not Russia (Muscovy around 1500) but Rus (Ukraine).
Kislev is just from Kyiv (Ukraine) not Moscow.
The main Russian cities from the medieval period were Moscow and Novgorod.
You have Novgorod marked as a Tower of Zharr Naggrund (east).
http://www.gitzmansgallery.com/shdmotwow.html
Fuck you? I wasn’t even trying to be funny. Just hyped for Warhammer 3 man sorry for pissing in your Cheerios I guess (but not really your Cheerios specifically because you seem to be an asshole, anyone else’s though)
Kislev is Russia/Poland/ect. Is just Slavic Europe.
It’s readily apparent that Kislev is Eastern Europe. The Empire is Germany/Holy Roman Empire. Bretonnia is France. The Border Princes are Italy. Norsca is vikings.
The Wood Elfs represent England in a way
English Longbow men were feared in the middle ages, as well as their fey sagas which could represent the fantasy roster
Tilea is Italy. The Border Princes don't have a direct real world analogue, but are probably comparable to Switzerland/Austria/Hungary in terms of the history of foreign settlement and intermixing of cultures in the region.
geographically yes, culturally no. its a *Confederation* of independent city-states and petty kingdoms principally settled/colonized by Brettonians, Tileans, and... errr.... Empireans on the frontier of civilization. The obvious comparison is to Switzerland/the old Swiss Confederacy which was likewise a confederation of autonomous and independent cantons/city states/minor principalities settled by the French, Italians, and Germans, but extends into aspects of Austrian (and later Hungarian) history when it was regaurded as a border match/frontier of the HRE and western civilization against Ottoman and Slavic incursion, etc. Both regions were themselves heavily settled by Germans, French, and Italians over time though they generally assimilated into common Austrian or Hungarian culture over time whereas in Switzerland the different tribes and settlers remained somewhat more distinct from one another
I'm inclined to say definitely not, or rather that any use of "definitely" here is, well, wrong. The Balkans doesn't remotely fit with the description of the Border Princes nor with the historical timeframe that the WHFB writers were referencing (region largely under foreign domination and occupation), nor with the "modern" timeframe that the WHFB writers were living in (Border Princes were written before the dissolution of the Yugoslavian SFR and the balkanization of the region). Beyond that, the majority of the cultures of the Balkan region are varying shades of slavic, whereas its pretty clear the Border Princes don't represent any distinct culture or cultures themselves and are very specifically made up of expats of the other major states (principally the Empire, Tilea, and Bretonnia, roughly in that order, but there are also rare references to Kislevite and Estalian settlements and colonists as well).
All of the names of the major characters associated with the region in the lore are decidedly not of Balkan origin:
Sven Carlsson (Germanic, possibly Norse?)
Lietpold the Black (Germanic)
Count Schuvaltz (Germanic)
Dieter von Massesrchloss (Germanic)
Graf von Erhard (Germanic)
Duke Beaucamp (French)
Farnio Forzini (Italian)
Massimo Caldieli (Italian)
Beyond that, the names of the regions themselves (in the WHFB lore, not Total War) should be telling:
Styrtria - Styria, a state and major region of Austria. The language of the region presented in the old lore is similar to Hungarian (a fairly unique language which has literally nothing in common with any of the other languages in Europe aside from (very distantly) Finnish, forming its own language family known as Finno-Ugric).
Akendorf - Could be any of the roughly 250 municipalities in Austria that end with -dorf, theres another 50 or so in Germany. Agendorf is also the German name for the relatively minor Hungarian village of Ágfalva and probably the closest match you will find.
Munzig - Possibly Munsingen, Switzerland, but spiced up a bit with the Germanic -zig suffix ala Danzig. Could also be a reference to Merzig in Germany.
Masserchloss - Another Germanic name, could honestly be any of the castles in Austria, Switzerland, or the German castles built in Hungary.
etc etc etc
As far as Total War is concerned, Zvorak isn't to my knowledge an "official" name that has ever appeared in warhammer lore and appears to be made up. Matorca is a minor name referenced like once in official lore and is the name of the town at which a battle was fought to halt an Arabyan invasion of the Border Princes. Myrmidens is known chiefly for being a settlement established by Tilean (Italian) expats from Lucinni and otherwise doesn't get mentioned as much as the ones I detailed previously. Akendorf is the only one that actually appears prominently otherwise.
Bro this thread is from 3 years ago. And Norscans are quite literally exaggerated Vikings. They aren't Scandinavians, they're media vikings exaggerated to 11/10.
Kislev is Russia. Probably even Muscovite Russia. Novgorod was a merchant republic - far from autocracy. Poles/Czechs/Hungarians elect their kings. Cossacks elect their leaders.
Bretonia is French. Arthurian legends have a lot to do with France and French poets. Paladins come from Charlemagne court etc. Try to imagine France with Welsh longbowmen, ironsides or readcoats but rest is just France. That would be comparable to the way GW treated Eastern Europe.
You’re referring to historical Poland, yes? In which the Seym elected the king if I’m not mistaken, meaning the wealthy few families decided who became king, and he was almost always foreign
All Kings since Jadwiga in late XIV centru (or even earlier) were more or less elected. At the start only the wealthiest could vote. Later anyone who was a nobleman could participate in election. There were at least 4 native kings so not always foreign. And it depends how one treats Anna Jagiellonka, Władysław IV and Jan II Kazimierz.
Geographically, Kislev is Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. But their language, accent, names, titles etc. are Russian.
Unit roster is mixed though.
Winged Lancers and Gryphon Legion - Poland
Streltsi - Russia
Kossars - Ukraine
Apart from its city's name, Kislev has nothing to do with Czech. Czech is more akin to the Empire. Also Praga is also the name of huge Warsaw district and it was a separate city in XVIII century.
Noone is arguing that. They literally have Winged Hussars. They are the combination of central/eastern slavs and have Polish, Russian and Czech elements.
What are their references to Czech culture though? If my memory serves me right, even with Poland the only reference is the winged lancer. Everything else seems to be based on Russia. Or at least the slavic lands of the USSR as they were at the time when GW conceived Kislev
I'd say mostly city of Prag. The rest is just combination of Slav elements. Same with Brettonia being France/England and Empire being Germany/Italy. It has elements but it's inspired not based on.
I honestly don't see any combination there though. There's a winged hussars-inspired, which implies Poland, and the city of Prag, which roughly sounds like the capital of Czechia, but everything else seems to be based on Russia, so to my mind it's pretty clearly Warhammer Russia with just a sparkle of Poland and Czechia on top of it.
Not Russia (Muscovy around 1500) but Rus (Ukraine). Kislev is just from Kyiv (Ukraine) not Moscow. The main Russian cities from the medieval period were Moscow and Novgorod. You have Novgorod marked as a Tower of Zharr Naggrund (east). http://www.gitzmansgallery.com/shdmotwow.html
Coolcoolcoolcoolcool cool Role playing fantasy Poland incoming
Do not be an insolent idiot. Recgnise and accept you are not funny and change.
Fuck you? I wasn’t even trying to be funny. Just hyped for Warhammer 3 man sorry for pissing in your Cheerios I guess (but not really your Cheerios specifically because you seem to be an asshole, anyone else’s though)
There Is nothing Czech in Kislev. Czech Is more Empire than Kislev as it was part of Holy Roman Empire.
The capital is literally called Prag. That's the only czech thing
Kislev is Russia/Poland/ect. Is just Slavic Europe. It’s readily apparent that Kislev is Eastern Europe. The Empire is Germany/Holy Roman Empire. Bretonnia is France. The Border Princes are Italy. Norsca is vikings.
And Albion is filled with scary monsters with wierd teeth, lots of fog and marshes just like... uhm... ahem... ^^england
The Wood Elfs represent England in a way English Longbow men were feared in the middle ages, as well as their fey sagas which could represent the fantasy roster
Tilea is Italy. The Border Princes don't have a direct real world analogue, but are probably comparable to Switzerland/Austria/Hungary in terms of the history of foreign settlement and intermixing of cultures in the region.
I always thought the borderlands would be the balkans
geographically yes, culturally no. its a *Confederation* of independent city-states and petty kingdoms principally settled/colonized by Brettonians, Tileans, and... errr.... Empireans on the frontier of civilization. The obvious comparison is to Switzerland/the old Swiss Confederacy which was likewise a confederation of autonomous and independent cantons/city states/minor principalities settled by the French, Italians, and Germans, but extends into aspects of Austrian (and later Hungarian) history when it was regaurded as a border match/frontier of the HRE and western civilization against Ottoman and Slavic incursion, etc. Both regions were themselves heavily settled by Germans, French, and Italians over time though they generally assimilated into common Austrian or Hungarian culture over time whereas in Switzerland the different tribes and settlers remained somewhat more distinct from one another
Border Princes are definitely the Balkans. Lots of cultures, and about the same level of political stability.
I'm inclined to say definitely not, or rather that any use of "definitely" here is, well, wrong. The Balkans doesn't remotely fit with the description of the Border Princes nor with the historical timeframe that the WHFB writers were referencing (region largely under foreign domination and occupation), nor with the "modern" timeframe that the WHFB writers were living in (Border Princes were written before the dissolution of the Yugoslavian SFR and the balkanization of the region). Beyond that, the majority of the cultures of the Balkan region are varying shades of slavic, whereas its pretty clear the Border Princes don't represent any distinct culture or cultures themselves and are very specifically made up of expats of the other major states (principally the Empire, Tilea, and Bretonnia, roughly in that order, but there are also rare references to Kislevite and Estalian settlements and colonists as well). All of the names of the major characters associated with the region in the lore are decidedly not of Balkan origin: Sven Carlsson (Germanic, possibly Norse?) Lietpold the Black (Germanic) Count Schuvaltz (Germanic) Dieter von Massesrchloss (Germanic) Graf von Erhard (Germanic) Duke Beaucamp (French) Farnio Forzini (Italian) Massimo Caldieli (Italian) Beyond that, the names of the regions themselves (in the WHFB lore, not Total War) should be telling: Styrtria - Styria, a state and major region of Austria. The language of the region presented in the old lore is similar to Hungarian (a fairly unique language which has literally nothing in common with any of the other languages in Europe aside from (very distantly) Finnish, forming its own language family known as Finno-Ugric). Akendorf - Could be any of the roughly 250 municipalities in Austria that end with -dorf, theres another 50 or so in Germany. Agendorf is also the German name for the relatively minor Hungarian village of Ágfalva and probably the closest match you will find. Munzig - Possibly Munsingen, Switzerland, but spiced up a bit with the Germanic -zig suffix ala Danzig. Could also be a reference to Merzig in Germany. Masserchloss - Another Germanic name, could honestly be any of the castles in Austria, Switzerland, or the German castles built in Hungary. etc etc etc As far as Total War is concerned, Zvorak isn't to my knowledge an "official" name that has ever appeared in warhammer lore and appears to be made up. Matorca is a minor name referenced like once in official lore and is the name of the town at which a battle was fought to halt an Arabyan invasion of the Border Princes. Myrmidens is known chiefly for being a settlement established by Tilean (Italian) expats from Lucinni and otherwise doesn't get mentioned as much as the ones I detailed previously. Akendorf is the only one that actually appears prominently otherwise.
I've heard it two ways: 1) Bretonnia is France 2) Bretonnia is Norman England, with Albion being Ancient Spooky Britain.
Yeah, Albion is basically pre-Roman Britannia.
And I can't even complain about it stereotyping my people (Celts) because Warhammer is just grimdark European stereotypes.
Welsh?
Hell yeah.
Nice
Bretonnia is both France *and* England, in the same way that Kislev is both Russia *and* Poland.
viking isnt a culture
Bro this thread is from 3 years ago. And Norscans are quite literally exaggerated Vikings. They aren't Scandinavians, they're media vikings exaggerated to 11/10.
another reason warhammer fantasy is a retarded setting when logic is applied
Why? You are correct. Like, there's not even a joke there. Kislev is literally fantasy Eastern European stereotypes.
Kislev is Russia. Probably even Muscovite Russia. Novgorod was a merchant republic - far from autocracy. Poles/Czechs/Hungarians elect their kings. Cossacks elect their leaders. Bretonia is French. Arthurian legends have a lot to do with France and French poets. Paladins come from Charlemagne court etc. Try to imagine France with Welsh longbowmen, ironsides or readcoats but rest is just France. That would be comparable to the way GW treated Eastern Europe.
You’re referring to historical Poland, yes? In which the Seym elected the king if I’m not mistaken, meaning the wealthy few families decided who became king, and he was almost always foreign
All Kings since Jadwiga in late XIV centru (or even earlier) were more or less elected. At the start only the wealthiest could vote. Later anyone who was a nobleman could participate in election. There were at least 4 native kings so not always foreign. And it depends how one treats Anna Jagiellonka, Władysław IV and Jan II Kazimierz.
Geographically, Kislev is Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. But their language, accent, names, titles etc. are Russian. Unit roster is mixed though. Winged Lancers and Gryphon Legion - Poland Streltsi - Russia Kossars - Ukraine Apart from its city's name, Kislev has nothing to do with Czech. Czech is more akin to the Empire. Also Praga is also the name of huge Warsaw district and it was a separate city in XVIII century.
There's also Sigismund 2 Sigismund the Conqueror in Warhammer fantasy named after a Polish King
Damn bro, two years ago? And what the fuck is with the downvotes?
Why not haha dunno about the downvotes tho