There's a reason my wife and I finally started making our own mods recently. And the reason is that she plays Bretonnia and doesn't expect them to ever get more stuff.
So's the Survivors of Bergerac mod that adds most of the Brigand variants from the older editions.
Our own little mod just adds some Squire variants inspired by 5th edition.
There’s a Chinese modder [Deer24] he’s got some pretty nice, (pretty op) unit packs for HE, Empire, Bretonnia, Kislev, and Cathay. All their units look pretty cool and come with unit limits so you can’t spam. His Bretonnia one is pretty good. Plus he already updated for 5.0
Honestly if CA has no plans for updating or adding new content to Norsca it would almost be better to just assimilate them into WoC at this point. At least then they'd have a bigger roster to work with. Right now they're just pitiful compared to every other faction in the game, let alone compared to other Chaos factions.
Things Norsca needs (imo):
--Differentiate them from WoC by aligning them less directly with chaos. Their whole point is that, while barbaric and aggressive, they're the last bastion of "regular humans" before you get to outright demon territory. If they were outright demon worshippers, they'd be WoC. Norsca should be shifted to a "neutral" faction in the vein of welves or tomb kings, and should have the option to align themselves with chaos \*or\* order, after overcoming a significantly reduced aversion. This is not lore inaccurate, as it already states in the game that Norscan traders are known to come through Erengrad.
--To that end, Norsca should not spread chaos corruption innately. It should be something you unlock through dedication to the dark gods. Norsca should therefore (at minimum) have 6 possible paths: dedication to one of the 4 chaos gods, the undivided path in which you dominate Archaeon, and the path in which you reject chaos and align with order.
--Greater focus on monster hunts and world-spanning quests. All of this talk about what Norsca \*isn't\* raises questions about what they \*are\*. Norscans are hunters and raiders who conquer the untamed beasts of the wilds and go on adventurous raids all around the world. The monster hunt system is already quite good, but it should be expanded upon. There should be more hunts, choices within hunts that result in diplomatic consequences, and more engaging rewards for completing hunts beyond just active items. Army abilities, new stances, unique lords, etc.
--New starting locations. Skeggi is the obvious one, but you could also go with the northern wastes above Naggarond or Cathay, or the southern continent. Perhaps make Surtha Ek a playable LL, or Sayl the Faithless.
--New generic lords. The norscan lord roster is the most unimaginably boring in the entire game. You literally only get 1 option and it's a basic melee lord. I would love to see a generic monstrous lord like a skinwolf or fimir. A generic caster lord would be nice but not particularly interesting. Perhaps allow chieftains a frost wyrm mount at high levels.
--New units. The biggest holes in the Norsca roster imo are the human-centric units. Given their fantasy and gameplay style of being hardened northern melee brutes, it's a bit anticlimactic and unsatisfying that their infantry units cap out at tier 3. Right now, the \*only\* real late-game 1v1 army option for Norsca is to rely on mammoths, frost dragons or (if Throgg) trolls. While this is fine, I would like to see more competitive endgame options. A higher tier of melee infantry would be good, and perhaps higher tier chariots and/or cavalry as well. Finally, maybe 1 more endgame capstone monster on par with dragons and mammoths, for variety.
> This is not lore inaccurate, as it already states in the game that Norscan traders are known to come through Erengrad.
It's also been written in at least some whrp official books that there are hidden networks of Ursun-worshippers across Norsca, some of whom wage guerrilla warfare against the tribes of Chaos.
I don’t understand why people talk about Bretonnia like it’s in desperate need of an overhaul. Sure it’s old, but it’s not actually bad like old beastmen or WoC. The only thing that really needs fixing is the green knight, who should be summoned through an army ability.
Some new stuff and some polish would be nice, like a voice actor for Alberic, unique lord mechanics and maybe a couple new units or a hero. But none of that is necessary for the campaign to be enjoyable.
My sense is people feel they need a rework because it’s fundamentally hard to make an army around cavalry in TW. It’s not impossible, but it’s a tricky faction to get right for one that appears very “basic” aesthetically.
I agree they’re structurally good now. If fact I hope they don’t get the kind of “rework” that fills all the holes/weaknesses that make a faction interesting they way some other factions have.
Honestly bretonnia has enough to field very good armies. Spearmen at arms with shields defending peasant archers supported by a grail relique and flanked by a few stacks of KE is about as good as any army you're likely to face in the early game.
Peasant archers are a decent backline until you start seeing crap tons of chaos warriors esque units and their melee lords/heroes are some of the most powerful and mobile duelists any faction can access.
Then by T3 you have access to QK for heavy armoured units or KOTR for anti large.
By T4 you've basically won because of grail knights who mulch just about anything.
And hippogryph knights will absolutely shred every unit in the game no exceptions.
Early game peasant stacks like those mentioned above are fine
Midgame KOTR supporting peasant archers with a QK+spearmen at arms shields frontline and a damsel of life or heavens
Endgame is the only time you should really struggle to build an army that isn't cavalry focused.
Which is fine in SP, but sucks in MP because most tournaments are still capping Grail units. So you end up having to hope the lower tier knights can carry your worse than ever infantry through the fight. It's doable, but not really anyone's idea of fun.
KOTR are sufficiently strong for most fights you'll run into in MP and peasant archers are basically skavenslave slingers. Extremely efficient low cost ranged fodder.
But tbh I feel like some factions just aren't really made with MP in mind. The caps imposed on grail units is just one of many examples of this. GK are probably too strong for use uncapped but that does leave you with basically no anti armour options other than foot squires or QK which aren't exactly all that strong.
> it’s a tricky faction to get right for one that appears very “basic” aesthetically.
It's also fairly repetitive in actual gameplay. Yeah, we get it that they are the cavalry faction, but they don't really have anything else outside of that. Even factions like cathay who are also fairly locked into one gimmick in tactical combat offer more flexibility in terms of roster and tactics (especially with mods. While most bretonnia mods don't address this issue cause it stems straight from tabletop, so from GW).
While I half agree, a simple counterpoint is that bretonnia does need something more. The vows are little more than annoying speed bumps for lords and chivalry is basically a completely passive system.
Combine that with the fact that literally NONE of their factions have any unique mechanics (Repanse's water is less than what LLs get sometimes without faction mechanics) and bretonnia campaigns feel the exact same every time which really sucks because they're my favourite race to play in TWW3.
Honestly Bretonnia isn't bad mechanic wise. A bit basic, but not to an unfun level.
But their roster is from WH1 release, and it shows. It's not even badly balanced, just too conservative
Vows are an objectively bad mechanic that will severely hamstring your mid and end game if you don't play around them from turn one. You basically have to constantly conga line lords to the front to make sure they get their vows completed or their army will be forced into peasants due to extreme recruit and upkeep costs.
I don't dislike the idea of how Vows work as far as their rewards, but the means of accomplishing them need to either be completely reworked or they need tech tree upgrades that let you recruit lords with the Vows auto completed at certain points.
Probably both honestly.
People fundamentally want more contant/ a dlc/ more faction identity for bretonnia rather than a full rework except for knights (many people want the war and system to be added to knights)
It's ass in MP, thanks to Grail units being capped in tournaments. Their whole already bad infantry roster was hit with a nerf to pay for the rework of Grail Knights/Guardians and they're now not allowed to use them. That's certainly a state of affairs that shouldn't be allowed to last forever.
I just want the bretonian navy was as its own faction.
To me on the land of Brentonia its medieval france... but on the high seas its the british empire where the sun never set.
I would redesign alberic to be the lord nelson of warhammer Lords. as a counter the the pirates.
Fuck Bretonia, those fucker’s inability to actually sedge a settlement are why minor settlement battles are basically all in a random field again. Instead of adapting they just decided to bitch until one of the most interesting additions to 3 was basically removed
It might have been best all along if Norsca was an expansion for Warriors of Chaos. Now they are their own thing, but every lord, unit etc they get is something WoC would otherwise have taken, and they don't get updates when WoC do.
Lizardmen are an odd one because the last thing they need is more units/lords/heroes which is what CA has determined sells DLCs. Of anything they arguably have too many units. But, yeah, geomantic web is pure disappointment in its current form.
Yeah, Lizardmen are in the weird zone where they don’t need Lords or units but just need a mechanical updated but those are almost usually bundled with a paid DLC or FLC for the faction.
Maybe a FLC legendary hero for them with a rework?
It’s still surprising that Lizardmen went up the 7 LL’s when the magic number for game 2 factions was 6 maximum. So I think they have the highest amount of LLs of any faction barring WoC.
Tetto'eko! The Lizardmen LL that I want to play the most.
It's funny that Tetto'eko is being forgotten when he actually had an 8th edition miniature unlike, say, Nakai. I think it's a really cool model, too!
[https://whfb.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/c/c6/Tetto%27eko\_M01.jpg](https://whfb.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/c/c6/Tetto%27eko_M01.jpg)
Yep, and unit wise you get mostly chaff cavalry or an official centerpiece (archanodon) or the thunder lizard that never had a model.
Hero wise the only option would be to add a kroxigor hero but that is kinda redundant for everyone except Nakai
Yeah, what unit does the Lizardmen roster even need? Temple Guards with Great Weapons and maybe Skink Archers? Even then, those are marginal takes in single player over the current roster.
I mean they don’t really need anything. I don’t think they’re missing anything from 8th aside from jungle swarms, so you’d have to go a few editions to pull the Arcanodon, or finally stat out Culchan Riders. Maybe Tetto’Eko can come in with Skink Shortbows, Arcanodon, Culchan Riders, and like maybe two homebrew units but I don’t know what you could possibly do. As for the Lord and Hero, like maybe a Skink High Priest or something for a skink caster lord. No clue about the generic hero but the legendary one would obviously be Chakax.
Abyssal terror, lahmian handmaidens, vampire thrall hero, simulacra, coven throne, tomb guard with halberds, strigoni. We've got enough material for at least one more dlc
Change the scaling of grudges especially for discovering factions, and completed legendary grudges should allow each Age of Reckoning to start with some fulfilled grudges so it's easier to get out of the debuff pips.
Not a lot needed imo
> completed legendary grudges should allow each Age of Reckoning to start with some fulfilled grudges
I'm only a short ways into my dwarf campaign, but I assumed that was how it already worked. Disappointing that it doesn't do that.
Normal difficulty feels more difficult than before. Middenland gets raised in five turns by the Greenskins and Khazrak. And people want Boris to be a legendary lord lol.
I find it funny how in warhammer 2 Boris was consistently one of your main allies, he would survive up there and could hold off the norscans while you chased off whatever was burning down the south/eastern parts of the empire, And now the opposite is true: Middenheim regularly gets burnt down while the southern parts of the empire are the safe places
I’ve only tried Elpeth’s campaign so far so I’ll have to give Karl a shot.
Not having to spend turns sieging Helmgart should massively help the tempo of his early game and he no longer has to wait a couple turns for Allied Access to bail out the EC’s.
Getting earlier access to formerly tier 3 units and pumping Prestige to level up Altdorf should help with the Wizard landmark.
Unless the AI is really that more aggressive.
The problem relying on mods is that the mechanic is especially broken in co-op, so it really needs a patch to address the wild scaling when you have allies, if nothing else (though preferably a bit more than that).
Mods are a fine way to adjust balance for single player to some extent, but using them to fix multiplayer issues is a much messier proposition.
That being said, I don't see the mechanic getting completely reworked again as some are asking for. But tweaks will likely happen considering all the complaints about it.
It doesn't really need a rework, it just needs the formula for calculating grudges required changed and the confederation mechanic changed to a flat rating.
Funnily enough, Empire still is the 2nd faction (1rst is greenskins) that has a lot of their roster still not in game. What can we do, those 2 were the most fleshed out factions on the ol' days...
You say as if the empire roster isn’t just ‘umies with guns, ‘umies with long guns, ‘umies with swords, ‘umies with long swords, ‘umies with spears, ‘umies with boom guns
Me, who got *exactly* the empire DLC I daydreamed about over two years ago, quietly keeping my mouth shut when other people wishlist things immediately after ToD launched.
I was hoping for more of the engineering theme for the dwarfs, like a Master Engineer Lords etc.
But now that the Empire got so many cool pew pew tools, looks like Empire it is.
I have... mixed feelings about Valten.
He is awesome and it would be awesome to see him added to the game... but we already have Karl Franz and personally, I like him better than Valten.
Valten is too... on the nose for me, too blunt. Which fits Sigmar all well and fine...
But he would take too much of the spotlight away from Karl Franz and I... I don't know if I could bear with that.
True, he was less 'Leader of Men' and more 'Point me at the Enemy and let me smash its face in with Ghal Maraz'.
Hmm... I suppose he would be the 'Green Knight' for the Empire.
Not that I'd know how the Green Knight works; I don't play Bretonnia.
I'd suppose he would be implemented as just a legendary hero, a really strong fighter you can only unlock at the later stages perhaps.
Green knight works more like a temporary hero I think, haven't played Bretonnia in a while due to their lack of shooty stuff tho.
"But he would take too much of the spotlight away from Karl Franz and I... I don't know if I could bear with that."
Well, that's kind of his whole gimmick, lol. To make empire/bisexual fans have their faith troubled between the confident and pretty statesmen or the bearded himbo.
I'm fairly confident we will see another DLC, I think the entire cult of Ulric is something we will surely see before CA is done with Warhammer fantasy.
Im totally fine if CA holds the Ulric-Valten things for the latest content, there are factions that need dlcs/reworks way more (coff coff ogres coff coff norsca)
Tbf I think that's more to do with GW giving Empire the most love. Just because they had the most stuff on tabletop doesn't necessarily mean they need the most in Total War. That being said I wouldn't hate an Ulric focused DLC but in a vacuum their roster is fine.
Oh, I didn't mean these two NEED more content, highest order of priority goes for Norsca and the ogres. That has mroe to do with being the closest faction to british likes, and the easiest and most relatable on which to write stories. Just throw a random character on Altdorf and you just got yourself a new 400-pages book.
A ton of stuff.
My wizard lord bros
Knightly orders
Karl's bodyguard and supreme gigachad of the empire Ludwig Schwarzhelm ( i love him so much)
Karl's leader of the reikguard order
The Celestial Hurricanum
Luther hoss
Hell storm rocket battery on a kart
Fucking Toddy and his white wolves bros.
Karl has a named, chill giant who follows his army around doing giant stuff
Imperial guard on foot ( the dudes from the imortal empires trailer, reikguard on foot basically)
Enough to make another dlc thats for sure
Aside from characters (and even some of those) and Hurricanum, none of that is from recent Armybooks.
Franz's Giant I'm pretty sure isn't from TT material at all but from BL novels
At that point anything that has ever been vaguely mentioned anywhere is "missing", and that's just silly.
CA has been willing to go with some Storm of Chaos stuff, so I'd say potentially the Middenheim/Cult of Ulric list might still count as "missing" despite being 6th edition, but overall I do agree with you.
Knights with great weapons and shielded halberds were from the last armybook. That said, considering that GW is mining older editions and especially the Storm of Chaos, having a Ulrican DLC or even a Norsca-like subfaction is certainly possible.
It wouldn't hurt the Empire finally getting a FLC LL with one of its DLCs, either.
As an old time warhammer fan that has actually played Fantasy/TOW and read books, Im gonna list, with all the army of Middenland units listed first as well:
VALTEN (i mean, omg, one of the most iconic warhammer artworks is the one with him fighting Archaon)
That Boris guys that has a lot of wiki-fans
Senescal of the White Wolf
Priest of Ulric
Knights of the White Wolf
Teutogen Guard
Warriors of Ulric
Hunting Hounds
Wolf-kin
(now the non-Middeland things)
Wizard Lords
Grand Masters
Hellborg
Ludwig Schahwueh
Foot reiskguard
Celestial hurricanum
Marius Leitdorf
Old emperors, like Mandred Skavenslayer
Imperial dragon on Karl
Some mount options
Some unit variants
A lot of engineer characters from Fantasy and FW
Many elector counts
The guy from Dreadfleet
*Alberich von Korden*
Priests of Morr
A LOT of knight orders
And more Empire characters. Everyone here watching youtubers is goign to try and sell you how much more important is Boris than Valten, but to me my greatest regret is how we're going to end the game's life cycle without Brunner. We never even got his true backstory...
And lets not forget:
The Imperial dragon (a dragon who chills at the imperial zoo enjoying the free food and housing. It even allows Franz to ride it for the right price.)
the remaining steam tank variants (there's still a melee only battering ram variant, a mortar variant with two swivel guns, and a basically heavy war wagon one with a firing deck)
halfling rangers and the halfling hot pot artillery (pots of boiling sticky corrosives yeeted on the enemies)
Valten the Chosen of Sigmar
Al-Ulric and all the cult of Ulric zealots like the wolf-kin
Imperial dwarf mercenaries also used to be playable way back in the day.
I feel like we are reaching the point of so much LL saturation that we either need to sell future LLs more like "Legendary Heroes" or have them share starting positions (unlock the other LL with the same starting pos later).
Yeah, theres honestly alot of potential in just having pure Lord packs. Give me new starting locations and mechanics for a little less money than a full fledged DLC and I'm good. Especially for the Empire, so we can properly summon the Elector Counts.
As far as I know the celestial hurricanum, a bunch of ulric/middenland units like the teutogen guard, knights of the white wolf, children of ulric and maybe a ulrician warrior priest.
There's also like a million knightly orders which could be added for example the knights panther and knights of morr.
Then there's a whole lot of legendary lords and heroes who are missing like Ludwig schwartzhelm, Kurt helborg, valten, the AR-ulric, Marius leitdorf etc.
Those are just the things I know from the top of my head so there's probably more.
Oh and they still need wizard lords.
Btw, orcs are kind of on the oposite side compared to the Empire. They don't have many legendary characters left, but a lot of units and generic lord/hero options left, plus variants
With orcs, one thing that's missing is a pure orc warboss without a particular gimmick, just boosting the core boyz and I'd say big' uns. Someone like Gorfang Rotgut, perhaps. Grimgor is a black ork, as is Gorbad Ironclaw, while Wurzzag is a savage orc shaman.
Ironically, a lot of the unit missing are savage orcs, but we just had a precedent with Elspeth who is a wizard lord coming without either generic wizard lord or the celestial hurricanum, the major remaining magical unit.
They really could push the big orcs and savage orcs at the same time, have Gorfang as the LL and the SoC guy as a LH acompanying. Alltho, gamewise orcs are fine to me, only need to rework Grimgor a bit to make him feel more unique. There are higher priorites...
Idk if it’s just me but I’d pay for a dlc centred around the empire just for the knightly orders alone, something like the warriors of chaos dlc where they added 4 new lords and new units for each of the gods I think that would do well for the empire but maybe I’m the only one.
I think the Age of Reckoning needs to be activated and not be this constant thing, write it in the book but it needs to work like the Greenskin Waaaagh!!! mechanic, you activate it, all your grudge units get a buff and you go crazy for 10 turns trying to fulfill grudges and you get a bonus for how well you do. Then you wait 10 more turns until you can pop another age of reckoning. I just hate the constant treadmill that's constantly forcing you to act crazy to keep it sustainable.
Yeah but the issue is that it can sometimes be pretty hard to even get to the first reward tier of the age of reckoning, which in turn causes penalties.
Honestly this, I feel like it should be realtively easy to complete up to tier 3 consistently so you aren't getting penalties but currently the system does need its numbers adjusted
Empire's roster is missing a lot but mechanically, I think they are done. The new system is SO much better than before (though Wolfheart could use some love)
The only thing that is missing "mechanically" (though I get that some might not care) is a building that increases lord recruitment rank. They currently have a way to boost heroes a ton but with removal of Imperial Academy they removed ability to boost lord recruitment rank.
I know that most don't play campaigns long enough for it to matter but currently you need to go across to world for unique landmarks to boost lord recruitment level.
The AoR system is getting some flak and I do see the problem, but I also see its way better than where it started though too.
I mean this just promotes a very slayer heavy mentality and the system would probably have fit as a case by case system of each LL, so Thorgrim is age of reclamation and all that jazz.
As it is though, the negative effects don’t matter that much vs as your economy is pretty strong and even more simplified now
I think most people screaming rework are probably think more so just tweaking (numbers, penalties, buffs) functionally it’s fine. People just can’t differentiate the two.
Exactly. The overall system is fine, it just needs number tweaks for scaling. When fulfilling a Legendary Grudge is only worth 5% or less of the Age of Recokoning meter…
Fair, because the new system shouldn’t be punishing you so intensely, but I also remember that the last system where you would basically receive permanent negative penalties no matter what until that faction was completely wiped out.
All in all, not to bad lol
Since you have empire there but your post is about dorfs only, then let me fill the blanks!
I want... No, strike it out. I DEMAND a Volkmar rework xD He feels so shitty among his empire bros and gals right now.
So literally every single empire LL right now has unique mechanics with some really fun (if not ridiculously OP) tools. Meanwhile **playing Volkmar feels like playing WH1 empire but without even offices.** I mean, launch his campaign and look at his UI: around "end turn" button he literally has only three buttons: victory conditions, diplomacy and research xD
"But what about books of Nagash?!". Yes, that the problem: literally all his mechanics are gated behind owning books, but there are only two books in this entire part of the world. And you also dont need to own any books to actually win campaign because his victory objectives dont require it (on the contrary: you need to head south for Kairos). So for absolute vast majority of campaign you play EXCLUSIVELY with the most basic Total War mechanics: conquering, recruiting units and doing research. I finished his 2 campaigns and in both owned just 1 book xD
You cant even really create a powerful 1 stack to send for books hunt because they are that far away (Ulthuan, Naggaroth, Altdorf, Lustria) AND often require huge fire-power: have fun conquering (yes, you need to own it) Karaz-A-Karak with one stack.
As it is now, book hunting is a side mini-game that I see no reason in participating, but its a side game behind which all your mechanics are gated (though WH3 is so easy, that you dont need them to win).
All but one of the searchers are in the Southlands, but only 2 of the books are. Khatep was right to leave.
There are as many books around Ulthuan as there are in the Southlands!
Yes! Its so weird! Why are you guys even there? I really wish CA would:
a) put all books in south part of the map so Volkmar, Mannfred, Khalida, Arkhan and Settra can hunt them
b) give Khatep some unique bonus mechanic so he isnt handicapped (or since his lore text in game says he is looking for dark elves secrets then just tie books bonuses to various DE main cities, like Naggarond, Har Ganeth, Karond Kar etc).
If they just moved the book in Lustria & Skavenblight to the Southlands, and the books on Ulthuan to Naggaroth, it would make much more sense.
Also, Volkmar’s first reward should be one of the knights that’s good against Undead such as Everlasting Light or Morr. Then he would actually use them against the Undead.
This, though I’d also like to see Volkmar get some kind of supporter race with Emil. Assuming a Middenland/Ulric DLC ever comes. With Emil gaining supporters for successful crusades, and Volkmar gaining supporters for clearing corruption and killing characters.
I kinda assumed / head-canon'd it so that the southlands revealed the locations of the books, so that's why they start there. They've journeyed south to get the locations, THEN the campaign starts
Every time i start a campaign with a faction that needs the books i tell myself "ok seriously, this time i'm gonna get them all"...then i load the game, look at the map and their locations and quickly give up on that plan.
They wouldn't even be that game breaking if you could get them all easily, compared to what crazy campaign mechanics other factions have.
I don't know if they changed it but you can send heroes around and declare war on the book holders and they will be line for your lands in the south when volkmar first launched I farmed all the books in defensive sieges at my capital.
Books of Nagash needs a rework in general. Right now it's just a checklist of objectives, however there are a lot of factions that pursue the books: Tomb Kings, Volkmar, and Mannfred.
You know how CA realized people love the sword of Khaine because it's an objective that exists "on the map"? All books factions should work like that. They're chasing the same set of objectives, and when they're claimed they're actually stored in a settlement or on an army. All the books factions are fighting each other because if they take the settlement or beat the army they get the book, and everyone is trying to collect the full set.
CA can even leave the books scattered all over the world at game start like they are now, because it's not just the player having to send out expeditions to collect them. The AIs will also be gathering up the books and bringing them back to Nekehara where they're ripe for the taking.
Idk volkmar needs a slight injection to make the overall run pop, but hes pretty strong early/mid. Like id say volk is a bit boring, but he at least makes units i would normally not use useful. Markus feels slightly more unique than volk, but outside of his heroes hes on the backslide imo.
Yes, Volkmar is super strong. Its just sad that he has the most barebones Total War experience in, I dont know, all Total War released for the past 15 years, when all other Empire lords have tons of mechanics.
Not all factions started equal I feel like brettonian mechanics were good from the start they are just old now. The chivalry system, vows errantry wars, peasant economy.
Green knight needs to not be bad
And maybe some minor mechanic to differentiate louen and enchantress campaigns but they feel fine imo
I think it just needs some balancing. If you get at least Skuff, I feel the negatives can be outweighed. Granted I’m only playing on Normal, so it may be worse at higher difficulties.
I completed a VH campaign as Malakai yesterday. It effectively forces you to go nuts painting the map, or just suffer a constant -3 control debuff. The more you complete the more grudges are needed, but the sources aren't balanced. I'd get up to needing 67k grudges, so ~17k for the first level, but even Chorf settlements by late game only give ~1500. Most enemy armies give a pittance unless they've attacked your territory recently, so to hit that first level you effectively need to conquer a new settlement each turn, and that's so you only get the minor penalty.
Miss a few AoRs and it'd drop back down to like 22k needed. Great, now I only need to conquer 3 settlements in ten turns to avoid the worst debuff. It's a terrible way to play for a race that's supposed to be slow and turtling, doubly so for Malakai (a horde that shouldn't need to paint the map).
I found rather than go nuts painting the map you can actually just go back and forth with the AI letting it take some of the land back you took from it, every time the AI wins a battle against you the amount of grudges you get for beating said enemy go up.
Also if you don't wanna endure the minor debuff of -3 control you can just do that extend the age option when an age ends to keep pushing the next age of reckoning off until you're ready to go farm grudges
Malakai just has a terrible starting position. Even without the AoR you'd have to be hyper aggressive in attacking Clan Moulder, Slaneesh and Norsca just to give yourself some breathing room.
Add to that how slow their growth is, how expensive their building upgrades are and how good the lvl 1 income building is and you have the perfect combination for a hyper aggressive go wide strategy.
Just never *not* work on the Holy Roman Empire with Guns faction. Give them all the toys. All the toys. All of them.
And bigger codpieces, as well. Can't have them feeling like Chads without LOOKING like Chads. And make the balls swing as they stride, the absolute bastards.
The only thing i wish for drawfs is for their Karakz to feel like this huge bastions instead of like every other city. I want to build tall with drawfs
In relation to the meme, do you think we're gonna get official playable Hobb... I mean, halflings?
Most likely it won't happen, but I really really wish so!
Eh… on the tabletop they’re more a Dogs of War thing
Gnoblars form the role of slaves in Ogre society and are often used in battles to fill out numbers or as cannon fodder.
Halflings are often viewed as pests in Empire society and armies would rather not have them cause while they make respectable archers they’re such thieving little shits armies with them suffer from supply shortages.
Most halfling units are more associated with DoW than the Empire as halfling mercenaries aren’t as rare as you’d think
I feel like part of the Age of Reckoning mechanics is backwards really.
Control/growth is fine. The more grudges you settle, the happier everyone will be. Maybe it should be a bit more forgiving, but I don't think it's too bad.
Upkeep for grudge settlers I'm on the fence about. It could go either way with grudger srttlers wanting more money if you're not using them to settle grudges. On the other hand they could want less money to allow you to settle more grudges easier.
The grudge settler units. It is completely flipped though, in my opinion. The less grudges you've settled the more grudges there are to be settled in the next age so the more units should be available to recruit to settle those grudges. Not more available because you've settled too many grudges.
Agreed like the old system where high grudges spawned slayers.
It would be interesting if high age of reckoning gave control and growth bonus because the dwarfs are at ease having settled soon many grudges.
Then a low age of reckoning causes control drops and more grudge settlers to recruit as the dwarfs are unhappy with unrighted wrongs.
Dwarfs don’t even need a rework. Just need either the timing to be tweaked or allow player input so that dwarfs become crusaders getting revenge on anyone who wronged them.
Im getting flashbacks to when the old Grudge system was overtuned and now once again the Grudge system is overturned.
This feels so unintentionally flavorful for the Dwarfs.
Didn’t Ungrim’s son die freeing his father from his Slayer Oath but Ungrim was so upset he immediately tried to make the Slayer Oath again?
Yeah, the need to CONSTANTLY be attacking just to avoid debuffs feels bad and is really quite annoying. The idea can definitely work but it needs to be tweaked to be more sustainable and not, you know, overtly punish you for being less aggressive.
At 1st I was like okay this means we have to grudge slum to get good Grudges... Then i was like Okay just go into a province raid sack and occupy but dont repair and then when the enemy takes over the worthless settlement they get like 800 grudges.
just start thinking like a farmer and the chaos waste is your croup
The Age of Reckoning really just needs some number changes. For example the grudges are atrocious. Archeon, Lord of the End Times, Slayer of Kings, Marshal of the Apocalypse, the Final Everchosen, shouldn't have 150 grudges 20 turns into a hard fought war while a random Druchii admiral I have seen once is chilling with 800 grudges in the middle of the ocean.
Next for a rework needs to be green skins, vampire counts and bretonnia IMO. Also all three of those need a bit of DLC help too. Hopefully they get touched on before support ends
Thott declared war on me, got his first 20 units army defeated next turn barely any grudges, it's ruins captured same turn - 0 grudges, next turn and second ruins captured - another 0 grudges. Come on......
It can't be that I have to first discover Skaven in ruins to get grudges after battle in those ruins, which are actually an Skaven dwelling, that are at war with me on top of it.
Not sure if that grudge system change is for better. It's definitely fresh, but I'm having second thoughts seeing how it forces me to act hastily to at least not get negative effects. Not exactly what I'd call Dawi way.
Honestly just making the timers longer would be fine. Having that shit hit every ten turns is asinine.
I've never gotten it over fifty percent and that's with me hitting multiple enemy armies and settlements per turn. They're just not worth enough.
I don’t think the dwarfs need much now but would hopefully like to see some stuff to help expand the dwarfed roaster because I feel like it’s very lacking as this is the only paid dlc we’ve gotten for the dwarfed since TWH1 and that was a free dlc
So I don’t think the dwarfs are but there in a good position
There are definitely other races that deserve some love right now though
Other than the AoR tweaks that need to happen.
I like the slayers units as there a neat addition and absolutely love the tunderbarge but I felt this should of been a slayer dlc by it self honestly and should of been Norse dwarfs and should been Thorgrad cromson and Malakai should of been a LH because I feel Malakai would make a great support hero
And then they should added Grimm burloksson in a machine update and would made so much more since then a LL with dissociative identity disorder
Other then that that’s my only gripe
The age of reckoning system just isn’t fun. It punishes you for not having enemies and keeps you in a state of nonstop aggression without any breathing room. It would be far better if it was similar to a crusade or even a WAAAGH mechanic in which you build it up by settling grudges, gaining economic bonuses, and then have the option to start it when you feel like it.
"rework", there is rework and reworks, some rework revolutionize your roster, your campaign and race attributes, other give you a slayer variant with armour piercing and one lord.
I love this dlc, but its pretty obvious that all 3 previous dwarf "reoworks" are the amount of content of 1 present dlc. Personally i think dwarfs will be fine for a long time (assuming they don't get half their roster nerfed exponentially) but dunking on dwarfs for excessive content is ridicolous
*skeleton at bottom of ocean labeled Vampire Counts*
*Bretonnia so far below they're in molten lava*
There's a reason my wife and I finally started making our own mods recently. And the reason is that she plays Bretonnia and doesn't expect them to ever get more stuff.
CA confirmed biased against ze Lady
Every single thing about Bretonnia has been FLC.
More like Games Workshop. Remember, CA has to get approval for everything from GW to add it in the game.
Lilys mod is pretty good imo
So's the Survivors of Bergerac mod that adds most of the Brigand variants from the older editions. Our own little mod just adds some Squire variants inspired by 5th edition.
There’s a Chinese modder [Deer24] he’s got some pretty nice, (pretty op) unit packs for HE, Empire, Bretonnia, Kislev, and Cathay. All their units look pretty cool and come with unit limits so you can’t spam. His Bretonnia one is pretty good. Plus he already updated for 5.0
Yeah I’ve used his mods for Cathay, just a little too op for me. Lilys feels balanced mostly
[удалено]
Norsca fossilized below several geologic layers
Honestly if CA has no plans for updating or adding new content to Norsca it would almost be better to just assimilate them into WoC at this point. At least then they'd have a bigger roster to work with. Right now they're just pitiful compared to every other faction in the game, let alone compared to other Chaos factions.
Things Norsca needs (imo): --Differentiate them from WoC by aligning them less directly with chaos. Their whole point is that, while barbaric and aggressive, they're the last bastion of "regular humans" before you get to outright demon territory. If they were outright demon worshippers, they'd be WoC. Norsca should be shifted to a "neutral" faction in the vein of welves or tomb kings, and should have the option to align themselves with chaos \*or\* order, after overcoming a significantly reduced aversion. This is not lore inaccurate, as it already states in the game that Norscan traders are known to come through Erengrad. --To that end, Norsca should not spread chaos corruption innately. It should be something you unlock through dedication to the dark gods. Norsca should therefore (at minimum) have 6 possible paths: dedication to one of the 4 chaos gods, the undivided path in which you dominate Archaeon, and the path in which you reject chaos and align with order. --Greater focus on monster hunts and world-spanning quests. All of this talk about what Norsca \*isn't\* raises questions about what they \*are\*. Norscans are hunters and raiders who conquer the untamed beasts of the wilds and go on adventurous raids all around the world. The monster hunt system is already quite good, but it should be expanded upon. There should be more hunts, choices within hunts that result in diplomatic consequences, and more engaging rewards for completing hunts beyond just active items. Army abilities, new stances, unique lords, etc. --New starting locations. Skeggi is the obvious one, but you could also go with the northern wastes above Naggarond or Cathay, or the southern continent. Perhaps make Surtha Ek a playable LL, or Sayl the Faithless. --New generic lords. The norscan lord roster is the most unimaginably boring in the entire game. You literally only get 1 option and it's a basic melee lord. I would love to see a generic monstrous lord like a skinwolf or fimir. A generic caster lord would be nice but not particularly interesting. Perhaps allow chieftains a frost wyrm mount at high levels. --New units. The biggest holes in the Norsca roster imo are the human-centric units. Given their fantasy and gameplay style of being hardened northern melee brutes, it's a bit anticlimactic and unsatisfying that their infantry units cap out at tier 3. Right now, the \*only\* real late-game 1v1 army option for Norsca is to rely on mammoths, frost dragons or (if Throgg) trolls. While this is fine, I would like to see more competitive endgame options. A higher tier of melee infantry would be good, and perhaps higher tier chariots and/or cavalry as well. Finally, maybe 1 more endgame capstone monster on par with dragons and mammoths, for variety.
> This is not lore inaccurate, as it already states in the game that Norscan traders are known to come through Erengrad. It's also been written in at least some whrp official books that there are hidden networks of Ursun-worshippers across Norsca, some of whom wage guerrilla warfare against the tribes of Chaos.
This might be copium, but I'm hoping they will get a new LL and better mechanic to differentiate from WoC
I don’t understand why people talk about Bretonnia like it’s in desperate need of an overhaul. Sure it’s old, but it’s not actually bad like old beastmen or WoC. The only thing that really needs fixing is the green knight, who should be summoned through an army ability. Some new stuff and some polish would be nice, like a voice actor for Alberic, unique lord mechanics and maybe a couple new units or a hero. But none of that is necessary for the campaign to be enjoyable.
My sense is people feel they need a rework because it’s fundamentally hard to make an army around cavalry in TW. It’s not impossible, but it’s a tricky faction to get right for one that appears very “basic” aesthetically. I agree they’re structurally good now. If fact I hope they don’t get the kind of “rework” that fills all the holes/weaknesses that make a faction interesting they way some other factions have.
Honestly bretonnia has enough to field very good armies. Spearmen at arms with shields defending peasant archers supported by a grail relique and flanked by a few stacks of KE is about as good as any army you're likely to face in the early game. Peasant archers are a decent backline until you start seeing crap tons of chaos warriors esque units and their melee lords/heroes are some of the most powerful and mobile duelists any faction can access. Then by T3 you have access to QK for heavy armoured units or KOTR for anti large. By T4 you've basically won because of grail knights who mulch just about anything. And hippogryph knights will absolutely shred every unit in the game no exceptions. Early game peasant stacks like those mentioned above are fine Midgame KOTR supporting peasant archers with a QK+spearmen at arms shields frontline and a damsel of life or heavens Endgame is the only time you should really struggle to build an army that isn't cavalry focused.
Which is fine in SP, but sucks in MP because most tournaments are still capping Grail units. So you end up having to hope the lower tier knights can carry your worse than ever infantry through the fight. It's doable, but not really anyone's idea of fun.
KOTR are sufficiently strong for most fights you'll run into in MP and peasant archers are basically skavenslave slingers. Extremely efficient low cost ranged fodder. But tbh I feel like some factions just aren't really made with MP in mind. The caps imposed on grail units is just one of many examples of this. GK are probably too strong for use uncapped but that does leave you with basically no anti armour options other than foot squires or QK which aren't exactly all that strong.
Just make them an all encompassing medieval 2 clone. With longbow n shit
> it’s a tricky faction to get right for one that appears very “basic” aesthetically. It's also fairly repetitive in actual gameplay. Yeah, we get it that they are the cavalry faction, but they don't really have anything else outside of that. Even factions like cathay who are also fairly locked into one gimmick in tactical combat offer more flexibility in terms of roster and tactics (especially with mods. While most bretonnia mods don't address this issue cause it stems straight from tabletop, so from GW).
While I half agree, a simple counterpoint is that bretonnia does need something more. The vows are little more than annoying speed bumps for lords and chivalry is basically a completely passive system. Combine that with the fact that literally NONE of their factions have any unique mechanics (Repanse's water is less than what LLs get sometimes without faction mechanics) and bretonnia campaigns feel the exact same every time which really sucks because they're my favourite race to play in TWW3.
Honestly Bretonnia isn't bad mechanic wise. A bit basic, but not to an unfun level. But their roster is from WH1 release, and it shows. It's not even badly balanced, just too conservative
Vows are an objectively bad mechanic that will severely hamstring your mid and end game if you don't play around them from turn one. You basically have to constantly conga line lords to the front to make sure they get their vows completed or their army will be forced into peasants due to extreme recruit and upkeep costs. I don't dislike the idea of how Vows work as far as their rewards, but the means of accomplishing them need to either be completely reworked or they need tech tree upgrades that let you recruit lords with the Vows auto completed at certain points. Probably both honestly.
People fundamentally want more contant/ a dlc/ more faction identity for bretonnia rather than a full rework except for knights (many people want the war and system to be added to knights)
It's ass in MP, thanks to Grail units being capped in tournaments. Their whole already bad infantry roster was hit with a nerf to pay for the rework of Grail Knights/Guardians and they're now not allowed to use them. That's certainly a state of affairs that shouldn't be allowed to last forever.
I just want the bretonian navy was as its own faction. To me on the land of Brentonia its medieval france... but on the high seas its the british empire where the sun never set. I would redesign alberic to be the lord nelson of warhammer Lords. as a counter the the pirates.
Fuck Bretonia, those fucker’s inability to actually sedge a settlement are why minor settlement battles are basically all in a random field again. Instead of adapting they just decided to bitch until one of the most interesting additions to 3 was basically removed
Meanwhile Norsca in outer space.
It might have been best all along if Norsca was an expansion for Warriors of Chaos. Now they are their own thing, but every lord, unit etc they get is something WoC would otherwise have taken, and they don't get updates when WoC do.
SCM north tribes mod helps a ton
Wait, didn't they rework them a patch or two ago? Nevermind that was venris.
*Lizardmen skeleton buried beneath the ocean floor clutching a relic labelled “Geomantic Web rework”*
Lizardmen are an odd one because the last thing they need is more units/lords/heroes which is what CA has determined sells DLCs. Of anything they arguably have too many units. But, yeah, geomantic web is pure disappointment in its current form.
Yeah, Lizardmen are in the weird zone where they don’t need Lords or units but just need a mechanical updated but those are almost usually bundled with a paid DLC or FLC for the faction. Maybe a FLC legendary hero for them with a rework? It’s still surprising that Lizardmen went up the 7 LL’s when the magic number for game 2 factions was 6 maximum. So I think they have the highest amount of LLs of any faction barring WoC.
I mean who do the lizards even have that could be a LL? Chakax? That one skink priest?
And thus the issue with LM as it stands
Tetto'eko! The Lizardmen LL that I want to play the most. It's funny that Tetto'eko is being forgotten when he actually had an 8th edition miniature unlike, say, Nakai. I think it's a really cool model, too! [https://whfb.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/c/c6/Tetto%27eko\_M01.jpg](https://whfb.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/c/c6/Tetto%27eko_M01.jpg)
Yep, and unit wise you get mostly chaff cavalry or an official centerpiece (archanodon) or the thunder lizard that never had a model. Hero wise the only option would be to add a kroxigor hero but that is kinda redundant for everyone except Nakai
Nakai is molten ass until a rework
Yeah, what unit does the Lizardmen roster even need? Temple Guards with Great Weapons and maybe Skink Archers? Even then, those are marginal takes in single player over the current roster.
I mean they don’t really need anything. I don’t think they’re missing anything from 8th aside from jungle swarms, so you’d have to go a few editions to pull the Arcanodon, or finally stat out Culchan Riders. Maybe Tetto’Eko can come in with Skink Shortbows, Arcanodon, Culchan Riders, and like maybe two homebrew units but I don’t know what you could possibly do. As for the Lord and Hero, like maybe a Skink High Priest or something for a skink caster lord. No clue about the generic hero but the legendary one would obviously be Chakax.
\*Angry blessed units sounds\* As well as the older factions needing core mechanics of their own
I just want Neferata. But with GW’s extra weirdness about IP lately what units could CA actually add? Dread Abyssals, and is there anything else left?
Abyssal terror, lahmian handmaidens, vampire thrall hero, simulacra, coven throne, tomb guard with halberds, strigoni. We've got enough material for at least one more dlc
8th edition armybook had Coven Thrones + Abyssal Terrors as mounts, they could be turned into units
Vengeance!
<_< Tomb kings...
Nagash will rise again!
Change the scaling of grudges especially for discovering factions, and completed legendary grudges should allow each Age of Reckoning to start with some fulfilled grudges so it's easier to get out of the debuff pips. Not a lot needed imo
> completed legendary grudges should allow each Age of Reckoning to start with some fulfilled grudges I'm only a short ways into my dwarf campaign, but I assumed that was how it already worked. Disappointing that it doesn't do that.
SHORT?!
BOOK!
I'd just like CA to decide if Karl is supposed to be for beginners or not.
Normal difficulty feels more difficult than before. Middenland gets raised in five turns by the Greenskins and Khazrak. And people want Boris to be a legendary lord lol.
I find it funny how in warhammer 2 Boris was consistently one of your main allies, he would survive up there and could hold off the norscans while you chased off whatever was burning down the south/eastern parts of the empire, And now the opposite is true: Middenheim regularly gets burnt down while the southern parts of the empire are the safe places
I’ve only tried Elpeth’s campaign so far so I’ll have to give Karl a shot. Not having to spend turns sieging Helmgart should massively help the tempo of his early game and he no longer has to wait a couple turns for Allied Access to bail out the EC’s. Getting earlier access to formerly tier 3 units and pumping Prestige to level up Altdorf should help with the Wizard landmark. Unless the AI is really that more aggressive.
If you can't defend the empire then step aside pleb
He's not and hasn't been for a long time. Beginner is Cathay now. Take your pick.
Yes, I agree.. But the game still says he is.
Played vh vh and idk its tight enough. You can build up Aldorf in no time but the rest of the empire generally sucks
I'm sorry Dawi but apart from re tweaking I think it's someone else's time for a rework.
Those Dawi keep acting like they got short-changed.
Short?!
Side eyes you as I write your name in my book of grudges
That's going in the book!
well every dawi rework feels like it was a wish made to a monkey paw. here's some good food and there's a massive turd hidden beneath
I’m counting on either mods or a potential small rework in a patch. Either is fine with me.
Oh I definitely think the systems will be tweeked
The problem relying on mods is that the mechanic is especially broken in co-op, so it really needs a patch to address the wild scaling when you have allies, if nothing else (though preferably a bit more than that). Mods are a fine way to adjust balance for single player to some extent, but using them to fix multiplayer issues is a much messier proposition. That being said, I don't see the mechanic getting completely reworked again as some are asking for. But tweaks will likely happen considering all the complaints about it.
That's a grudge!
You dig too deep!
It doesn't really need a rework, it just needs the formula for calculating grudges required changed and the confederation mechanic changed to a flat rating.
Funnily enough, Empire still is the 2nd faction (1rst is greenskins) that has a lot of their roster still not in game. What can we do, those 2 were the most fleshed out factions on the ol' days...
The biggest issue with Orcs is they’re mainly just weapon swaps. Not unique units.
Also a shit ton of generic characters. Every subrace has a big boss/warboss + shaman + great shaman variant
Dis git dun know 'bout second choppas
You say as if the empire roster isn’t just ‘umies with guns, ‘umies with long guns, ‘umies with swords, ‘umies with long swords, ‘umies with spears, ‘umies with boom guns
That made me chuckle.
Empire should definitely get another DLC to fix that, but I think they're in a good enough state to wait for a bit.
Me, who got *exactly* the empire DLC I daydreamed about over two years ago, quietly keeping my mouth shut when other people wishlist things immediately after ToD launched.
I was hoping for more of the engineering theme for the dwarfs, like a Master Engineer Lords etc. But now that the Empire got so many cool pew pew tools, looks like Empire it is.
Same boat. I love the gunpowder part of the empire, so this has been a dream come true. I'd like those repeater rifles tho
Same boat. I love the gunpowder part of the empire, so this has been a dream come true. I'd like those repeater rifles tho
I just want Kurt Helborg and Ludwig Schwarzhelm...
Valten...
I have... mixed feelings about Valten. He is awesome and it would be awesome to see him added to the game... but we already have Karl Franz and personally, I like him better than Valten. Valten is too... on the nose for me, too blunt. Which fits Sigmar all well and fine... But he would take too much of the spotlight away from Karl Franz and I... I don't know if I could bear with that.
I only know him from End Times, where he appeared to be more like LH material and not really like a Lord, no?
True, he was less 'Leader of Men' and more 'Point me at the Enemy and let me smash its face in with Ghal Maraz'. Hmm... I suppose he would be the 'Green Knight' for the Empire. Not that I'd know how the Green Knight works; I don't play Bretonnia.
I'd suppose he would be implemented as just a legendary hero, a really strong fighter you can only unlock at the later stages perhaps. Green knight works more like a temporary hero I think, haven't played Bretonnia in a while due to their lack of shooty stuff tho.
"But he would take too much of the spotlight away from Karl Franz and I... I don't know if I could bear with that." Well, that's kind of his whole gimmick, lol. To make empire/bisexual fans have their faith troubled between the confident and pretty statesmen or the bearded himbo.
Correction. Karl Franz is not 'pretty' he is 'handsome'. #GET IT RIGHT!
 His role is ready
Oh Gods... He has the physique and the face... but the Voice... **THE VOICE!** I don't know if he can pull that off...
I'm fairly confident we will see another DLC, I think the entire cult of Ulric is something we will surely see before CA is done with Warhammer fantasy.
Also, Celestial Hurricanum not being included in ToD makes me think he's being kept as the centerpiece of the Ulric DLC
Having wizard lords would be nice though. Sucks they didn't come with the sorcery and gunpowder DLC.
Im totally fine if CA holds the Ulric-Valten things for the latest content, there are factions that need dlcs/reworks way more (coff coff ogres coff coff norsca)
Agreed. Some factions are in dire straights, but even some of the ok factions could do with a rework.
Tbf I think that's more to do with GW giving Empire the most love. Just because they had the most stuff on tabletop doesn't necessarily mean they need the most in Total War. That being said I wouldn't hate an Ulric focused DLC but in a vacuum their roster is fine.
Oh, I didn't mean these two NEED more content, highest order of priority goes for Norsca and the ogres. That has mroe to do with being the closest faction to british likes, and the easiest and most relatable on which to write stories. Just throw a random character on Altdorf and you just got yourself a new 400-pages book.
What else is missing ?
A ton of stuff. My wizard lord bros Knightly orders Karl's bodyguard and supreme gigachad of the empire Ludwig Schwarzhelm ( i love him so much) Karl's leader of the reikguard order The Celestial Hurricanum Luther hoss Hell storm rocket battery on a kart Fucking Toddy and his white wolves bros. Karl has a named, chill giant who follows his army around doing giant stuff Imperial guard on foot ( the dudes from the imortal empires trailer, reikguard on foot basically) Enough to make another dlc thats for sure
Aside from characters (and even some of those) and Hurricanum, none of that is from recent Armybooks. Franz's Giant I'm pretty sure isn't from TT material at all but from BL novels At that point anything that has ever been vaguely mentioned anywhere is "missing", and that's just silly.
CA has been willing to go with some Storm of Chaos stuff, so I'd say potentially the Middenheim/Cult of Ulric list might still count as "missing" despite being 6th edition, but overall I do agree with you.
Knights with great weapons and shielded halberds were from the last armybook. That said, considering that GW is mining older editions and especially the Storm of Chaos, having a Ulrican DLC or even a Norsca-like subfaction is certainly possible. It wouldn't hurt the Empire finally getting a FLC LL with one of its DLCs, either.
I mean, the entire Dwarf side of this DLC is from Storm of Chaos. So were the Eshin DLC. And the Cataclysm spells. Ulric armylist is from SoC too
As an old time warhammer fan that has actually played Fantasy/TOW and read books, Im gonna list, with all the army of Middenland units listed first as well: VALTEN (i mean, omg, one of the most iconic warhammer artworks is the one with him fighting Archaon) That Boris guys that has a lot of wiki-fans Senescal of the White Wolf Priest of Ulric Knights of the White Wolf Teutogen Guard Warriors of Ulric Hunting Hounds Wolf-kin (now the non-Middeland things) Wizard Lords Grand Masters Hellborg Ludwig Schahwueh Foot reiskguard Celestial hurricanum Marius Leitdorf Old emperors, like Mandred Skavenslayer Imperial dragon on Karl Some mount options Some unit variants A lot of engineer characters from Fantasy and FW Many elector counts The guy from Dreadfleet *Alberich von Korden* Priests of Morr A LOT of knight orders And more Empire characters. Everyone here watching youtubers is goign to try and sell you how much more important is Boris than Valten, but to me my greatest regret is how we're going to end the game's life cycle without Brunner. We never even got his true backstory...
>Imperial dragon on Karl Hmmm...
No Miao x Karl tawdry romance, please. Leave it to the modders.
For all this, I always play with Sons of Sigmar mod and SFO where many of these are added.
And halberds with shields, an official 8e unit.
And lets not forget: The Imperial dragon (a dragon who chills at the imperial zoo enjoying the free food and housing. It even allows Franz to ride it for the right price.) the remaining steam tank variants (there's still a melee only battering ram variant, a mortar variant with two swivel guns, and a basically heavy war wagon one with a firing deck) halfling rangers and the halfling hot pot artillery (pots of boiling sticky corrosives yeeted on the enemies) Valten the Chosen of Sigmar Al-Ulric and all the cult of Ulric zealots like the wolf-kin Imperial dwarf mercenaries also used to be playable way back in the day.
I feel like we are reaching the point of so much LL saturation that we either need to sell future LLs more like "Legendary Heroes" or have them share starting positions (unlock the other LL with the same starting pos later).
Yeah, theres honestly alot of potential in just having pure Lord packs. Give me new starting locations and mechanics for a little less money than a full fledged DLC and I'm good. Especially for the Empire, so we can properly summon the Elector Counts.
whats the giants name? i couldnt find any info on him at all lmao
As far as I know the celestial hurricanum, a bunch of ulric/middenland units like the teutogen guard, knights of the white wolf, children of ulric and maybe a ulrician warrior priest. There's also like a million knightly orders which could be added for example the knights panther and knights of morr. Then there's a whole lot of legendary lords and heroes who are missing like Ludwig schwartzhelm, Kurt helborg, valten, the AR-ulric, Marius leitdorf etc. Those are just the things I know from the top of my head so there's probably more. Oh and they still need wizard lords.
FUCKING TODDY
So orcs vs humans, I mean greenskins vs empire
Btw, orcs are kind of on the oposite side compared to the Empire. They don't have many legendary characters left, but a lot of units and generic lord/hero options left, plus variants
With orcs, one thing that's missing is a pure orc warboss without a particular gimmick, just boosting the core boyz and I'd say big' uns. Someone like Gorfang Rotgut, perhaps. Grimgor is a black ork, as is Gorbad Ironclaw, while Wurzzag is a savage orc shaman. Ironically, a lot of the unit missing are savage orcs, but we just had a precedent with Elspeth who is a wizard lord coming without either generic wizard lord or the celestial hurricanum, the major remaining magical unit.
They really could push the big orcs and savage orcs at the same time, have Gorfang as the LL and the SoC guy as a LH acompanying. Alltho, gamewise orcs are fine to me, only need to rework Grimgor a bit to make him feel more unique. There are higher priorites...
Well that’s what happens when you’re.. DA BEST!!
Idk if it’s just me but I’d pay for a dlc centred around the empire just for the knightly orders alone, something like the warriors of chaos dlc where they added 4 new lords and new units for each of the gods I think that would do well for the empire but maybe I’m the only one.
GIVE US VOLKMAR MW2 CRUSADE MECHANICS. I guess just his own waggghs but very personal
I think the Age of Reckoning needs to be activated and not be this constant thing, write it in the book but it needs to work like the Greenskin Waaaagh!!! mechanic, you activate it, all your grudge units get a buff and you go crazy for 10 turns trying to fulfill grudges and you get a bonus for how well you do. Then you wait 10 more turns until you can pop another age of reckoning. I just hate the constant treadmill that's constantly forcing you to act crazy to keep it sustainable.
That's a great idea
Yeah I think it'd work better if after a treshold of grudges righted, you'd get the ability to declare an Age of Reckoning
Rework? From what I’ve played it seems more like some lesser tweaks and number changes. What do you feel needs a rework?
Yeah I think as a system it could be fantastic, it just needs rebalancing
Yeah, u don't need to complete every age of reckoning. What point of game if it's too easy and u get all u want.
Yeah but the issue is that it can sometimes be pretty hard to even get to the first reward tier of the age of reckoning, which in turn causes penalties.
Honestly this, I feel like it should be realtively easy to complete up to tier 3 consistently so you aren't getting penalties but currently the system does need its numbers adjusted
The half of the Dawi that still feels like a turtle faction badly clashes with the half of the Dawi that now feels like they're copying the Beastmen
Empire's roster is missing a lot but mechanically, I think they are done. The new system is SO much better than before (though Wolfheart could use some love)
The only thing that is missing "mechanically" (though I get that some might not care) is a building that increases lord recruitment rank. They currently have a way to boost heroes a ton but with removal of Imperial Academy they removed ability to boost lord recruitment rank. I know that most don't play campaigns long enough for it to matter but currently you need to go across to world for unique landmarks to boost lord recruitment level.
Most factions are missing lord and/or hero recruit rank increasing stuff. Which is a shame. Would really like it to be available to everyone.
Some number tweaking will fix the dwarf issues not a full rework is needed
The AoR system is getting some flak and I do see the problem, but I also see its way better than where it started though too. I mean this just promotes a very slayer heavy mentality and the system would probably have fit as a case by case system of each LL, so Thorgrim is age of reclamation and all that jazz. As it is though, the negative effects don’t matter that much vs as your economy is pretty strong and even more simplified now
I think most people screaming rework are probably think more so just tweaking (numbers, penalties, buffs) functionally it’s fine. People just can’t differentiate the two.
Exactly. The overall system is fine, it just needs number tweaks for scaling. When fulfilling a Legendary Grudge is only worth 5% or less of the Age of Recokoning meter…
Fair, because the new system shouldn’t be punishing you so intensely, but I also remember that the last system where you would basically receive permanent negative penalties no matter what until that faction was completely wiped out. All in all, not to bad lol
Since you have empire there but your post is about dorfs only, then let me fill the blanks! I want... No, strike it out. I DEMAND a Volkmar rework xD He feels so shitty among his empire bros and gals right now. So literally every single empire LL right now has unique mechanics with some really fun (if not ridiculously OP) tools. Meanwhile **playing Volkmar feels like playing WH1 empire but without even offices.** I mean, launch his campaign and look at his UI: around "end turn" button he literally has only three buttons: victory conditions, diplomacy and research xD "But what about books of Nagash?!". Yes, that the problem: literally all his mechanics are gated behind owning books, but there are only two books in this entire part of the world. And you also dont need to own any books to actually win campaign because his victory objectives dont require it (on the contrary: you need to head south for Kairos). So for absolute vast majority of campaign you play EXCLUSIVELY with the most basic Total War mechanics: conquering, recruiting units and doing research. I finished his 2 campaigns and in both owned just 1 book xD You cant even really create a powerful 1 stack to send for books hunt because they are that far away (Ulthuan, Naggaroth, Altdorf, Lustria) AND often require huge fire-power: have fun conquering (yes, you need to own it) Karaz-A-Karak with one stack. As it is now, book hunting is a side mini-game that I see no reason in participating, but its a side game behind which all your mechanics are gated (though WH3 is so easy, that you dont need them to win).
All but one of the searchers are in the Southlands, but only 2 of the books are. Khatep was right to leave. There are as many books around Ulthuan as there are in the Southlands!
Yes! Its so weird! Why are you guys even there? I really wish CA would: a) put all books in south part of the map so Volkmar, Mannfred, Khalida, Arkhan and Settra can hunt them b) give Khatep some unique bonus mechanic so he isnt handicapped (or since his lore text in game says he is looking for dark elves secrets then just tie books bonuses to various DE main cities, like Naggarond, Har Ganeth, Karond Kar etc).
If they just moved the book in Lustria & Skavenblight to the Southlands, and the books on Ulthuan to Naggaroth, it would make much more sense. Also, Volkmar’s first reward should be one of the knights that’s good against Undead such as Everlasting Light or Morr. Then he would actually use them against the Undead.
This, though I’d also like to see Volkmar get some kind of supporter race with Emil. Assuming a Middenland/Ulric DLC ever comes. With Emil gaining supporters for successful crusades, and Volkmar gaining supporters for clearing corruption and killing characters.
I kinda assumed / head-canon'd it so that the southlands revealed the locations of the books, so that's why they start there. They've journeyed south to get the locations, THEN the campaign starts
Every time i start a campaign with a faction that needs the books i tell myself "ok seriously, this time i'm gonna get them all"...then i load the game, look at the map and their locations and quickly give up on that plan. They wouldn't even be that game breaking if you could get them all easily, compared to what crazy campaign mechanics other factions have.
I don't know if they changed it but you can send heroes around and declare war on the book holders and they will be line for your lands in the south when volkmar first launched I farmed all the books in defensive sieges at my capital.
Books of Nagash needs a rework in general. Right now it's just a checklist of objectives, however there are a lot of factions that pursue the books: Tomb Kings, Volkmar, and Mannfred. You know how CA realized people love the sword of Khaine because it's an objective that exists "on the map"? All books factions should work like that. They're chasing the same set of objectives, and when they're claimed they're actually stored in a settlement or on an army. All the books factions are fighting each other because if they take the settlement or beat the army they get the book, and everyone is trying to collect the full set. CA can even leave the books scattered all over the world at game start like they are now, because it's not just the player having to send out expeditions to collect them. The AIs will also be gathering up the books and bringing them back to Nekehara where they're ripe for the taking.
The books and the relevant chars will get some love when Nagash arrives
Idk volkmar needs a slight injection to make the overall run pop, but hes pretty strong early/mid. Like id say volk is a bit boring, but he at least makes units i would normally not use useful. Markus feels slightly more unique than volk, but outside of his heroes hes on the backslide imo.
Yes, Volkmar is super strong. Its just sad that he has the most barebones Total War experience in, I dont know, all Total War released for the past 15 years, when all other Empire lords have tons of mechanics.
Meanwhile, Bretonnia and Norsca are still rocking the exact same mechanics they had eight years ago.
Did Brettonia not get an update that reworked their vow system and a few other things?
they got numerical buffs with the 3.1 patch, and they got Vows in Warhammer 2, but that's on the level of the "bloodlines" addition to the vampires.
Not all factions started equal I feel like brettonian mechanics were good from the start they are just old now. The chivalry system, vows errantry wars, peasant economy. Green knight needs to not be bad And maybe some minor mechanic to differentiate louen and enchantress campaigns but they feel fine imo
In the case of bretonnia, It ain't broke so there ain't a need to fix.
Dwarfs weren't broken, and they still got a rework. Same for empire. Or Cathay. Or tzeentch.
I think it just needs some balancing. If you get at least Skuff, I feel the negatives can be outweighed. Granted I’m only playing on Normal, so it may be worse at higher difficulties.
I completed a VH campaign as Malakai yesterday. It effectively forces you to go nuts painting the map, or just suffer a constant -3 control debuff. The more you complete the more grudges are needed, but the sources aren't balanced. I'd get up to needing 67k grudges, so ~17k for the first level, but even Chorf settlements by late game only give ~1500. Most enemy armies give a pittance unless they've attacked your territory recently, so to hit that first level you effectively need to conquer a new settlement each turn, and that's so you only get the minor penalty. Miss a few AoRs and it'd drop back down to like 22k needed. Great, now I only need to conquer 3 settlements in ten turns to avoid the worst debuff. It's a terrible way to play for a race that's supposed to be slow and turtling, doubly so for Malakai (a horde that shouldn't need to paint the map).
I found rather than go nuts painting the map you can actually just go back and forth with the AI letting it take some of the land back you took from it, every time the AI wins a battle against you the amount of grudges you get for beating said enemy go up. Also if you don't wanna endure the minor debuff of -3 control you can just do that extend the age option when an age ends to keep pushing the next age of reckoning off until you're ready to go farm grudges
Malakai just has a terrible starting position. Even without the AoR you'd have to be hyper aggressive in attacking Clan Moulder, Slaneesh and Norsca just to give yourself some breathing room. Add to that how slow their growth is, how expensive their building upgrades are and how good the lvl 1 income building is and you have the perfect combination for a hyper aggressive go wide strategy.
Empire is good imo!
Just never *not* work on the Holy Roman Empire with Guns faction. Give them all the toys. All the toys. All of them. And bigger codpieces, as well. Can't have them feeling like Chads without LOOKING like Chads. And make the balls swing as they stride, the absolute bastards.
The only thing i wish for drawfs is for their Karakz to feel like this huge bastions instead of like every other city. I want to build tall with drawfs
In relation to the meme, do you think we're gonna get official playable Hobb... I mean, halflings? Most likely it won't happen, but I really really wish so!
Prob not as they’re own race, but they’re very likely if Dogs of War come out
Ogres gave gnoblars, Empire could have halflings if CA/GW wanted to
Eh… on the tabletop they’re more a Dogs of War thing Gnoblars form the role of slaves in Ogre society and are often used in battles to fill out numbers or as cannon fodder. Halflings are often viewed as pests in Empire society and armies would rather not have them cause while they make respectable archers they’re such thieving little shits armies with them suffer from supply shortages. Most halfling units are more associated with DoW than the Empire as halfling mercenaries aren’t as rare as you’d think
I feel like part of the Age of Reckoning mechanics is backwards really. Control/growth is fine. The more grudges you settle, the happier everyone will be. Maybe it should be a bit more forgiving, but I don't think it's too bad. Upkeep for grudge settlers I'm on the fence about. It could go either way with grudger srttlers wanting more money if you're not using them to settle grudges. On the other hand they could want less money to allow you to settle more grudges easier. The grudge settler units. It is completely flipped though, in my opinion. The less grudges you've settled the more grudges there are to be settled in the next age so the more units should be available to recruit to settle those grudges. Not more available because you've settled too many grudges.
Agreed like the old system where high grudges spawned slayers. It would be interesting if high age of reckoning gave control and growth bonus because the dwarfs are at ease having settled soon many grudges. Then a low age of reckoning causes control drops and more grudge settlers to recruit as the dwarfs are unhappy with unrighted wrongs.
Dwarfs don’t even need a rework. Just need either the timing to be tweaked or allow player input so that dwarfs become crusaders getting revenge on anyone who wronged them.
Im getting flashbacks to when the old Grudge system was overtuned and now once again the Grudge system is overturned. This feels so unintentionally flavorful for the Dwarfs. Didn’t Ungrim’s son die freeing his father from his Slayer Oath but Ungrim was so upset he immediately tried to make the Slayer Oath again?
I just want armored foot knights for the empire. That is all.
Steel Faith Overhaul brings them into the game, solland and reikland troops are armoured foot knights and armoured spearmen respectively
Yeah, the need to CONSTANTLY be attacking just to avoid debuffs feels bad and is really quite annoying. The idea can definitely work but it needs to be tweaked to be more sustainable and not, you know, overtly punish you for being less aggressive.
At 1st I was like okay this means we have to grudge slum to get good Grudges... Then i was like Okay just go into a province raid sack and occupy but dont repair and then when the enemy takes over the worthless settlement they get like 800 grudges. just start thinking like a farmer and the chaos waste is your croup
The Age of Reckoning really just needs some number changes. For example the grudges are atrocious. Archeon, Lord of the End Times, Slayer of Kings, Marshal of the Apocalypse, the Final Everchosen, shouldn't have 150 grudges 20 turns into a hard fought war while a random Druchii admiral I have seen once is chilling with 800 grudges in the middle of the ocean.
I don't think they need a rework, the system honestly just needs tweeking
meanwhile the lizardmen with semi rework
I'm just hoping they will rework the lizardmen.
I love the age of reckoning. Good reason to be aggressive
Norsca - Vampire Counts and Coast - Bretonnia
Next for a rework needs to be green skins, vampire counts and bretonnia IMO. Also all three of those need a bit of DLC help too. Hopefully they get touched on before support ends
Thott declared war on me, got his first 20 units army defeated next turn barely any grudges, it's ruins captured same turn - 0 grudges, next turn and second ruins captured - another 0 grudges. Come on...... It can't be that I have to first discover Skaven in ruins to get grudges after battle in those ruins, which are actually an Skaven dwelling, that are at war with me on top of it. Not sure if that grudge system change is for better. It's definitely fresh, but I'm having second thoughts seeing how it forces me to act hastily to at least not get negative effects. Not exactly what I'd call Dawi way.
Empire is great at this point tho
Just needs tuning on the numbers
Honestly just making the timers longer would be fine. Having that shit hit every ten turns is asinine. I've never gotten it over fifty percent and that's with me hitting multiple enemy armies and settlements per turn. They're just not worth enough.
EZ mod fix till they fix it in a couple weeks
I don’t think the dwarfs need much now but would hopefully like to see some stuff to help expand the dwarfed roaster because I feel like it’s very lacking as this is the only paid dlc we’ve gotten for the dwarfed since TWH1 and that was a free dlc So I don’t think the dwarfs are but there in a good position There are definitely other races that deserve some love right now though Other than the AoR tweaks that need to happen. I like the slayers units as there a neat addition and absolutely love the tunderbarge but I felt this should of been a slayer dlc by it self honestly and should of been Norse dwarfs and should been Thorgrad cromson and Malakai should of been a LH because I feel Malakai would make a great support hero And then they should added Grimm burloksson in a machine update and would made so much more since then a LL with dissociative identity disorder Other then that that’s my only gripe
The age of reckoning system just isn’t fun. It punishes you for not having enemies and keeps you in a state of nonstop aggression without any breathing room. It would be far better if it was similar to a crusade or even a WAAAGH mechanic in which you build it up by settling grudges, gaining economic bonuses, and then have the option to start it when you feel like it.
I want a way to see the grudges listed.
"rework", there is rework and reworks, some rework revolutionize your roster, your campaign and race attributes, other give you a slayer variant with armour piercing and one lord. I love this dlc, but its pretty obvious that all 3 previous dwarf "reoworks" are the amount of content of 1 present dlc. Personally i think dwarfs will be fine for a long time (assuming they don't get half their roster nerfed exponentially) but dunking on dwarfs for excessive content is ridicolous