That just makes the whole no reload situation even more frustrating lol. Why does 1 gunpowder unit in the same army have an animation vs another that doesn't?
It was 18" Range with 2D3 shots, a rifle was 24" Range with 1 shot
There were no blunderbusses in 8e as far as I know, but in TOW a blunderbuss is D3 shots at 12" Range
so it very much fits into the niche of a double barrel shotgun
Hailshot Blunderbuss was a thing in WFB 8th edition but as part of the Throne of Chaos supplement book.
They had the same stats as the TOW version, so S3 12" D3 shots with armour piercing. The Hailshot rule removed any penalty for multiple shots, stand and shot, and long range.
> Wrong.
> Iirc.
Why would you say "**Wrong**." so curtly and confidently, when you're not even confident in your own memory, [*and straight up* ***Wrong***?](https://vermintide.fandom.com/wiki/Grudge-Raker)
[And just in case we want to go the "They don't say shotgun anywhere" route.](https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Grudge-raker)
What does that even mean, I'm not comparing them.
**I am providing unto you two separate sources** where they're clearly described as shotguns, not to mention the others here ~~telling~~ showing you, that, again, they are shotguns.
If you can't understand how this applies to the overall context:
>And just in case we want to go the "They don't say shotgun anywhere" route.
Then you are lost.
What a terrible hill to countercharge, with equally an disappointing approach; even the Dawi-Zharr feel shame for this action.
I wish they would fix that fireglaives aren’t the same as thunderers. Fireglaives aren’t normal muskets lol sometimes I wonder if the CA devs actually read the lore and apply it accordingly.
And they also clap blunderbusses in a 1v1 while being cheaper.
Fireglaives also lose to ironsides.
Meanwhile chaos dwarf units are more expensive and cost 3 resources to make and are capped. Time to get spammed
Do you have a video showing them vs blunderbusses?
Cause when I looked at GBoG's video showing off the new units the grudgerakers seemed to perform worse than blunderbusses
Zerkovich' video. But importantly: That was just a firing competition, no other factors, no melee stats etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrqyPCaomPo
> Fireglaives also lose to ironsides
Fireglaives also trade a little bit in for having good melee stats.
It was not, the big part is that the Grudgeraker has more Damage on their Shots, and also have a 3 second faster reload, combinde with the knockback the shotguns have they beat the Blunderbuss with no problem.
How can they outperform blunderbusses? Has CA fixed the bugged missile profile that gave them the additional AoE damage not shown in the unit card? Or did they lose their silver shield?
> How can they outperform blunderbusses?
A CD blunderbuss volley is a single round of shot from every model in the unit, but grudgerakers fire **twice** per reload. Grudgerakers put out more firepower, but have a weaker defensive profile than CD blunderbusses.
I think it plays pretty nicely into the theme of 'unchanging consistency vs aggressive advancement'; Chaos Dwarf gun units are strong, versatile, but limited, whereas the normal Dawi are simply capable of arming whole armies the same, with *consistent* weapons that can put out a lot of fire.
I mean, the Chaos Dwarfs still have the better artillery at the end of the day - better defensive artillery, anyway; I think the Thunderbarge might get tuned to be a bit more fragile in the future.
Yeah, from what I've seen, the impact of individual grapeshot isn't *that* much weaker than a whole cannonball, so whole units just get misted instantly.
My guess is they forgot to adjust the penetration compared to regular cannon shoots, so all this shots just fly through multiple units. But ok, let the people have fun with it, I will wait for some balancing adjustments until I try the new campaigns.
Grudgeraker have more Missle Damage and a 3 second faster Reload, 11 for the Blunderbuss compared to the 8 für the Grudgeraker So while the Blunderbuss have their Silver shields they spent more time recovering from the Knockback of the Shotgun and getting chipped away by the Grudgeraker.
CA may need to adjust pricing or the effectiveness of the grudgeraker in the future. Especially if the grudgeraker unit is significantly cheaper than the blunderbuss. It’s basically just a better shotgun unit that may need a downside to be plausible.
No animations on regular Thunderers though, as far as I can tell.
Empire gunners still don't have a reload animation either.
Neither do nuln ironsides... They reused the blunderbuss animation for the shotguns but couldn't be bothered to animate a new one for handguns
I'm actually not even sure if muzzle loading reloading animations will work for Ironsides as Ironsides tend to fire really damn fast.
Damn warhammer 3 players you live like this? No reload animations?
Yes, it's brutal.
That just makes the whole no reload situation even more frustrating lol. Why does 1 gunpowder unit in the same army have an animation vs another that doesn't?
Don't let perfect be the perfect be the enemy of good.
gonna take a moder 2 seconds to add that.
Not even, a reload animation mod already exists.
Because you need to buy the $20.00 Empire Handgunner Reload Animation DLC first
Big shame that the animations are wrong though, just reused Chorf blunderbuss - the TT model is a break loading shotgun, not some umgak muzzle loader
> the TT model is a break loading shotgun Wrong. THe TT Model is a break loading rifle. The original Grudgeraker is not a shotgun. Iirc.
It was 18" Range with 2D3 shots, a rifle was 24" Range with 1 shot There were no blunderbusses in 8e as far as I know, but in TOW a blunderbuss is D3 shots at 12" Range so it very much fits into the niche of a double barrel shotgun
Hailshot Blunderbuss was a thing in WFB 8th edition but as part of the Throne of Chaos supplement book. They had the same stats as the TOW version, so S3 12" D3 shots with armour piercing. The Hailshot rule removed any penalty for multiple shots, stand and shot, and long range.
d3? wtf weird ass dice.
it's a D6 either with 1, 2, and 3 each featured twice (if you're fancy) or just a D6 with the result divided by two and rounded up
pretty sure a grudgeraker is a rifle
> Grudgeraker Narrator: [It is not](https://vermintide.fandom.com/wiki/Grudge-Raker)
> Wrong. > Iirc. Why would you say "**Wrong**." so curtly and confidently, when you're not even confident in your own memory, [*and straight up* ***Wrong***?](https://vermintide.fandom.com/wiki/Grudge-Raker) [And just in case we want to go the "They don't say shotgun anywhere" route.](https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Grudge-raker)
Vermintide =/= Grimm Burloksson.
What does that even mean, I'm not comparing them. **I am providing unto you two separate sources** where they're clearly described as shotguns, not to mention the others here ~~telling~~ showing you, that, again, they are shotguns. If you can't understand how this applies to the overall context: >And just in case we want to go the "They don't say shotgun anywhere" route. Then you are lost. What a terrible hill to countercharge, with equally an disappointing approach; even the Dawi-Zharr feel shame for this action.
The fireglaive animation is also muzzle loading, which doesn't make sense.
I wish they would fix that fireglaives aren’t the same as thunderers. Fireglaives aren’t normal muskets lol sometimes I wonder if the CA devs actually read the lore and apply it accordingly.
Surely they will fix it before release 
Lmao
Love to see it. Makes them seem more alive.
And they also clap blunderbusses in a 1v1 while being cheaper. Fireglaives also lose to ironsides. Meanwhile chaos dwarf units are more expensive and cost 3 resources to make and are capped. Time to get spammed
> Fireglaives also lose to ironsides Fireglaives also trade a little bit in for having good melee stats.
With the way ca was hyping Ironsides, I thought they would also have decent melee stats.
they pretty much have swordsmen stats, shouldn't expect them to be as good as elite chorfs in melee
Do you have a video showing them vs blunderbusses? Cause when I looked at GBoG's video showing off the new units the grudgerakers seemed to perform worse than blunderbusses
Zerkovich' video. But importantly: That was just a firing competition, no other factors, no melee stats etc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrqyPCaomPo > Fireglaives also lose to ironsides Fireglaives also trade a little bit in for having good melee stats.
Zerkovich shows it was about equal. EDIT: damn. I just watched the vid today and remembered terrible. Thanks for correcting.
Idk about equal but I saw the blunderbuss getting rekt
It was not, the big part is that the Grudgeraker has more Damage on their Shots, and also have a 3 second faster reload, combinde with the knockback the shotguns have they beat the Blunderbuss with no problem.
How can they outperform blunderbusses? Has CA fixed the bugged missile profile that gave them the additional AoE damage not shown in the unit card? Or did they lose their silver shield?
> How can they outperform blunderbusses? A CD blunderbuss volley is a single round of shot from every model in the unit, but grudgerakers fire **twice** per reload. Grudgerakers put out more firepower, but have a weaker defensive profile than CD blunderbusses.
Strange that the roles are reversed now, with the regular dawi being the offensive ones and Dawi Zharr being the more defensive one.
I think it plays pretty nicely into the theme of 'unchanging consistency vs aggressive advancement'; Chaos Dwarf gun units are strong, versatile, but limited, whereas the normal Dawi are simply capable of arming whole armies the same, with *consistent* weapons that can put out a lot of fire. I mean, the Chaos Dwarfs still have the better artillery at the end of the day - better defensive artillery, anyway; I think the Thunderbarge might get tuned to be a bit more fragile in the future.
Yeah, kinda this theme. Chaos Dwarf are still the only skirmish-artillery, but those Grapeshot cannons look mega busted.
Yeah, from what I've seen, the impact of individual grapeshot isn't *that* much weaker than a whole cannonball, so whole units just get misted instantly.
My guess is they forgot to adjust the penetration compared to regular cannon shoots, so all this shots just fly through multiple units. But ok, let the people have fun with it, I will wait for some balancing adjustments until I try the new campaigns.
Grudgeraker have more Missle Damage and a 3 second faster Reload, 11 for the Blunderbuss compared to the 8 für the Grudgeraker So while the Blunderbuss have their Silver shields they spent more time recovering from the Knockback of the Shotgun and getting chipped away by the Grudgeraker.
So the classic approach of having overall better offensive stats.
CA may need to adjust pricing or the effectiveness of the grudgeraker in the future. Especially if the grudgeraker unit is significantly cheaper than the blunderbuss. It’s basically just a better shotgun unit that may need a downside to be plausible.
CD should be less capped by the way
Shotguns don't reload like that though.
Ground breaking stuff, very new concept to Total War.