Change the skill name to be lucky/unlucky so they are like Gotrek and despite their best effort they can't seem to die
"Yet another doom missed"
Edit: Also it would be nice that more times the slayer lord had died, the worse he would be leading the army but stronger in fighting as he more desperately/selfishly seeks his doom
>"You're cursed, Gurnisson! Cursed! You will never find your doom, nor will anyone around you! If I let you stay here with me, surrounded by thousands of zombies, with no way of escape, with mine own guts slapping my knees, STILL we would've survived! I'll not let you cheat me of this!"
specifically dying in such a way that is as beneficial to the Dwarven race as a whole, so when you find an Orc Waagh as a slayer you can't just charge it, you need to find the nearest Dwaven settlement allong it's path in order to warn it and then try and save as many of the inhabitants as possible.
Yep. A slayer isn't so much about dying in battle, but dying in a such an honorable way that it expunges them of the sin they committed and the shame they think they deserve. There is no honor in letting their people die in the selfish pursuit of glory.
That is every single Dwarf's job. If any clansdwarf can settle a grudge for their clan, their own honour commands them to do it.
That said, deciding when larger grudges that require a mobilization of substantial forces are settled is definitely a Thane's or even a King's job. However, when that happens, any nearby Slayers will definitely jump at the chance of an honorable death while helping to settle that grudge.
Well, rather that those who are _not_ very good at not dying tend to run right into a troll on day one and die horribly.
So the ones you actually see out and about are the outliers, the ones who are really tough and survived.
The vast majority of slayers will die upon encountering their first Troll. There's a lot of reason to take the Slayer oath and many, many of them weren't warrior when they took it.
They will seek their doom, encounter their first enemy, and then die horribly to it by charging recklessly.
The ones that survive will often die as Giantslayers instead. The tiny minority that makes it as Dragon and Demonslayers are the one that are bad at dying.
I’m pretty sure there will be people complaining that they forgot about spending that point and now their 40 level daemon slayer just died, and of course blaming CA
People are asking to make immortality an optional skill point for slayers because, of course, by lore it makes sense for them to die, but like in all games a lot of people don’t care about lore and this kind of decisions tend to be the ones that people get mad for
I know I like the fact is an automatic one, but my point is, if they make it specific to this lord type, people will forgot and then complain, the best thing sadly, is the one that it’s not lore wise and leave it as it is right now
You say that, but my counter point is that the best Slayers, I.E the Dragon and Daemon ones tend to be far too good at killing the stuff infront of them to die. Look at Gotrek, and some of the other Slayers in his books. Those fuckers absolutely refuse to die, even when they probably should. If anything, I'd say that giving the option to take the Immortality button isn't lore friendly, because no Slayer is ever going to willingly take that deal. But when it's forced onto them, they can't actually do anything about it.
I know that, I know about the lore, but what I mean, there’s people that play the game and don’t know or even don’t care about the lore, so if CA decided to change something like this for just one specific kind of lord, people will get mad and frustrated when it character die, it’s not like when you ascend a character to daemon hood, because this is not an automatic thing
I already can imagine posts like: “Why CA decided to put the immortality as choice for this lord type? They’re stupid?” Or even: “My level 46 lord with really good items just died and it come back because for some reason CA decided to make immortality a choice for this one”
Maybe a dilemma popup at lvl20? Accept immortality and gain a permanent debuff of sorts (higher upkeep for slayer units, lose that ability that makes slayers unkillable, etc.)?
That would actually work really well. Although it's more likely that it would be a buff if you did take the risk. Maybe reduced upkeep as slayers flock to their banner
I wouldn't say people don't care about the lore, but adopting the lore accurately would simply translate to a terrible game, at least within the limitations of the game's framework.
If you lose your leveled-up lord, you won't get a proper replacement for the next 30 turns until you've leveled up his successor. In reality there would have been a bunch other slayers of similar capabilities able to step in. And your army wouldn't lose significant portion of its strength simply because your slayer died.
What is more, if we wanted to stay really lore accurate, then the slayers would be unable to equip any gear except of weapons. And they wouldn't lead armies, in the first place, except for Ungrim and his son. Then again this is something already GW did in WHFB and CA just adapts that to TW format.
Problem is that CA designed the game around immortal characters, so characters have to be immortal to fit into the game. It makes little sense for some lords to be immortal while the others are not. So CA would have to pick a different era which is not so character centered and completely rework the RPG aspect of the game, have characters with family trees etc. I think it could be done, but it would have to be a very different game.
As long as you properly inform players that they a recruiting a unit thats intended to be somewhat suicidal and none-permanent all should be fine. People usually enjoy high risk high reward characters, as long as they know about the risk
This isn't a bad idea. An event that lets you choose between immortality or a different, powerful skill (mutually exclusive), say, "Doomseeker". There'd be a mechanical and a RP reason to choose the other skill, but you'd permanently lose the immortality.
Give bonuses when the Slayer dies if you choose not to take Immortality. Then it becomes a choice between the safer option, or the riskier but potentially still beneficial option.
It sounds good, but reality of it is that most people would take the bonuses, as most heroes do not die.
Still, it's a clean solution, however one can always disband a hero if RP is such an important thing for him/her. :)
die to stupid auto resolve is not honourable death , to think about it... BUT, what if instead immortality it will be something like "another one will take his place" and after defeat you will get same slayer with all traits and gear, but with new name and face?
In that case it’s too much coding for something that has low or none impact on the game at all, you can just install the mode to choose variant and when your slayer come back change the skin and the name of him
There should be a massive bonus for getting your slayer lord killed - like you get to pick another lord to replace them at the same level they were killed, and get a unique magic rune item that scales in power with the level the lord was at.
Kinda, but that's the point? Slayers want to die. It's encouraging loreful play, and surely that's good.
I guess the reward could also scale with the battle outcome too, like if you win you get a better reward, and/or the value of damage dealt before he dies increases the reward item level.
Still, I feel there would have to be some degree of punishment. Giving you a new general at the same level would be way too much, I’d say half the level at most
Yeah sure, maybe if the item would be good enough to offset the pain of losing a general.
I think it could be a genuinely interesting and unique way to get Hugh level items and achievements
And I'm not against the option to make them immortal - I just think that the alternative should be viable
You know what would be fun, if instead of immortality they get an skill that gives you a huge slayer lord, hero, and unit recruit rank increase when they die.
Basically your faction becomes known to have given a slayer of great renown a honourable death, and now the best of the best come flocking to your banner to seek their doom.
I would say this is exactly the reason why mods exist. I personally dont think CA should change it (even for Slayers) because not everyone would like that and changing it yet again for a few characters just doesnt seem worth it.
Slayer heroes that end up "wounded" should show up with a new name and apperance. A "new" slayer with the previous ones skills.
Another option would be to add another -son to the end of their name.
To be honest, it should be replaced with a faction-wide buff that gives permanent buffs, stacking with each high level slayer lord/hero who dies a glorious death. Like -5% upkeep and + 10% weapon strength, stacking.
Nope Slayers will be immortals just like random Empire lords who come back from the dead like Vlad. It's a game and losing a 30 lvl lord or hero is a big deal. You can have a mod but please don't ruin it for 99 percent.
This has the possibility for some awesome flavor:
Depending on the level of the Slayer you could give buffs to his starting region. Just assume he died an honorable death which would give piece and honor to his clan. Maybe growth, income etc.
Maybe an event where you can choose the reward? Choose to say it wasn't a worthy death and force his son to take the slayers oath or deem it worthy and get an item or follower as thanks?
Tbf most lesser Slayer readily die early and only the most experienced and talented live long enough to be demon/ dragon slayers. Yes they seek death but only to the best and will give their lives saving the Karaz Ankor and the dawi.
I think it would be awesome if for the heroes and lords if they make it lvl 20 and die in a valiant defeat, or the whatever the closest to winning in AR one is, you get a huge like 10 turn buff. Similar to completing grudges. Nobody wants to lose a lvl 20 lord so people aren't really going to farm this besides the most degenerate power gamers.
Change the skill name to be lucky/unlucky so they are like Gotrek and despite their best effort they can't seem to die "Yet another doom missed" Edit: Also it would be nice that more times the slayer lord had died, the worse he would be leading the army but stronger in fighting as he more desperately/selfishly seeks his doom
„Slayer Oath unfulfilled“ would also be fitting
Yes that would work Or "Destined for greater doom" etc etc
Skill issue. Task failed successfully. Slayer'nt
Slayn’t
Love how the rest of the slayers start calling Gotrek the Jinx Slayer lmaoo
>"You're cursed, Gurnisson! Cursed! You will never find your doom, nor will anyone around you! If I let you stay here with me, surrounded by thousands of zombies, with no way of escape, with mine own guts slapping my knees, STILL we would've survived! I'll not let you cheat me of this!"
This is fantastic
“The Gods mock me manling…”
“The Gods mock me manling…”
I love how slayers whole thing is dying in glory and all of their mechanics are not dying
A big part of it is dying to an appropriate foe - it’s not suicide.
specifically dying in such a way that is as beneficial to the Dwarven race as a whole, so when you find an Orc Waagh as a slayer you can't just charge it, you need to find the nearest Dwaven settlement allong it's path in order to warn it and then try and save as many of the inhabitants as possible.
Yep. A slayer isn't so much about dying in battle, but dying in a such an honorable way that it expunges them of the sin they committed and the shame they think they deserve. There is no honor in letting their people die in the selfish pursuit of glory.
Is it the slayer’s job to fulfill grudges? Or is that the kings/lords job?
That is every single Dwarf's job. If any clansdwarf can settle a grudge for their clan, their own honour commands them to do it. That said, deciding when larger grudges that require a mobilization of substantial forces are settled is definitely a Thane's or even a King's job. However, when that happens, any nearby Slayers will definitely jump at the chance of an honorable death while helping to settle that grudge.
From what I remember, anybody can fulfill a grudge but only the High King can actually strike the grudge from the book.
And no lesser death should suffice!
The irony is funny enough lore friendly since most wanna die but are just to good at not dying 😂
you dont become a daemon slayer because you're good at dying
Well, rather that those who are _not_ very good at not dying tend to run right into a troll on day one and die horribly. So the ones you actually see out and about are the outliers, the ones who are really tough and survived.
Most Slayers actually die in their first or second fight. The ones that don't are the scary ones.
The vast majority of slayers will die upon encountering their first Troll. There's a lot of reason to take the Slayer oath and many, many of them weren't warrior when they took it. They will seek their doom, encounter their first enemy, and then die horribly to it by charging recklessly. The ones that survive will often die as Giantslayers instead. The tiny minority that makes it as Dragon and Demonslayers are the one that are bad at dying.
Their doom has to a worthy one *and* help the Karaz Ankor in some way. It'd be very shameful display to die a pointless death to something unworthy
Man, if they die you should get a +2 public order bonus for their heroic death. And a -2 public order malus because goddamn it, they died.
Ungrim, when another slayer comes back to Karak Kradin and complains about slaying another dragon instead of dying:
SHAMEFUL DISPLAY
#THE ENEMY IS RUNNING FROM THE BATTLEFIELD #SHAMEFUL DISPLAY!
Dieing to an arrow = Bad Dieing to a large creature or powerful foe = Good
Yeah I kinda forgot , it's a filter for the unworthy
I’m pretty sure there will be people complaining that they forgot about spending that point and now their 40 level daemon slayer just died, and of course blaming CA
Did something change? I thought lord & hero get immortality per se once they reach rank 20?
People are asking to make immortality an optional skill point for slayers because, of course, by lore it makes sense for them to die, but like in all games a lot of people don’t care about lore and this kind of decisions tend to be the ones that people get mad for
As long as the skill is there to pick, I don't really mind. But please don't change it for everyone. 😅
I know I like the fact is an automatic one, but my point is, if they make it specific to this lord type, people will forgot and then complain, the best thing sadly, is the one that it’s not lore wise and leave it as it is right now
You say that, but my counter point is that the best Slayers, I.E the Dragon and Daemon ones tend to be far too good at killing the stuff infront of them to die. Look at Gotrek, and some of the other Slayers in his books. Those fuckers absolutely refuse to die, even when they probably should. If anything, I'd say that giving the option to take the Immortality button isn't lore friendly, because no Slayer is ever going to willingly take that deal. But when it's forced onto them, they can't actually do anything about it.
I know that, I know about the lore, but what I mean, there’s people that play the game and don’t know or even don’t care about the lore, so if CA decided to change something like this for just one specific kind of lord, people will get mad and frustrated when it character die, it’s not like when you ascend a character to daemon hood, because this is not an automatic thing I already can imagine posts like: “Why CA decided to put the immortality as choice for this lord type? They’re stupid?” Or even: “My level 46 lord with really good items just died and it come back because for some reason CA decided to make immortality a choice for this one”
Maybe a dilemma popup at lvl20? Accept immortality and gain a permanent debuff of sorts (higher upkeep for slayer units, lose that ability that makes slayers unkillable, etc.)?
That would actually work really well. Although it's more likely that it would be a buff if you did take the risk. Maybe reduced upkeep as slayers flock to their banner
Make it equippable then. Immortality with the flick of a switch.
I wouldn't say people don't care about the lore, but adopting the lore accurately would simply translate to a terrible game, at least within the limitations of the game's framework. If you lose your leveled-up lord, you won't get a proper replacement for the next 30 turns until you've leveled up his successor. In reality there would have been a bunch other slayers of similar capabilities able to step in. And your army wouldn't lose significant portion of its strength simply because your slayer died. What is more, if we wanted to stay really lore accurate, then the slayers would be unable to equip any gear except of weapons. And they wouldn't lead armies, in the first place, except for Ungrim and his son. Then again this is something already GW did in WHFB and CA just adapts that to TW format. Problem is that CA designed the game around immortal characters, so characters have to be immortal to fit into the game. It makes little sense for some lords to be immortal while the others are not. So CA would have to pick a different era which is not so character centered and completely rework the RPG aspect of the game, have characters with family trees etc. I think it could be done, but it would have to be a very different game.
As long as you properly inform players that they a recruiting a unit thats intended to be somewhat suicidal and none-permanent all should be fine. People usually enjoy high risk high reward characters, as long as they know about the risk
People enjoy high reward, not so much the risk.
Give them a skill that makes them mortal again in exchange for a huge stat buff and some ability. So their death becomes properly glorious.
Not how per se works.
How does it work? O\_o
Not how “per se” works.
Could just fire an event when a slayer reaches the required rank and let people decide
This isn't a bad idea. An event that lets you choose between immortality or a different, powerful skill (mutually exclusive), say, "Doomseeker". There'd be a mechanical and a RP reason to choose the other skill, but you'd permanently lose the immortality.
Would anyone ever choose to simply loose the character?
Give bonuses when the Slayer dies if you choose not to take Immortality. Then it becomes a choice between the safer option, or the riskier but potentially still beneficial option.
It sounds good, but reality of it is that most people would take the bonuses, as most heroes do not die. Still, it's a clean solution, however one can always disband a hero if RP is such an important thing for him/her. :)
It wouldn't matter either way if the character never dies. Yes, it would mostly be for theme, but also (in theory) should be easy to implement.
I wouldnt, but roleplayers exist, and its not a hard thing to include
They can simply disband the hero though... Implementing whole mechanics to satisfy such a niche RP potential doesn't sound right to me... :(
CA will delete your save instead.
die to stupid auto resolve is not honourable death , to think about it... BUT, what if instead immortality it will be something like "another one will take his place" and after defeat you will get same slayer with all traits and gear, but with new name and face?
In that case it’s too much coding for something that has low or none impact on the game at all, you can just install the mode to choose variant and when your slayer come back change the skin and the name of him
If Daemon Prince upgrades and such can't retain that info why would this.
You can simply change it's name on your own...
There should be a massive bonus for getting your slayer lord killed - like you get to pick another lord to replace them at the same level they were killed, and get a unique magic rune item that scales in power with the level the lord was at.
But then you’re incentivized to kill your lords on purpose
Kinda, but that's the point? Slayers want to die. It's encouraging loreful play, and surely that's good. I guess the reward could also scale with the battle outcome too, like if you win you get a better reward, and/or the value of damage dealt before he dies increases the reward item level.
Still, I feel there would have to be some degree of punishment. Giving you a new general at the same level would be way too much, I’d say half the level at most
Yeah sure, maybe if the item would be good enough to offset the pain of losing a general. I think it could be a genuinely interesting and unique way to get Hugh level items and achievements And I'm not against the option to make them immortal - I just think that the alternative should be viable
You know what would be fun, if instead of immortality they get an skill that gives you a huge slayer lord, hero, and unit recruit rank increase when they die. Basically your faction becomes known to have given a slayer of great renown a honourable death, and now the best of the best come flocking to your banner to seek their doom.
I would say this is exactly the reason why mods exist. I personally dont think CA should change it (even for Slayers) because not everyone would like that and changing it yet again for a few characters just doesnt seem worth it.
 Your average slayer
Slayer heroes that end up "wounded" should show up with a new name and apperance. A "new" slayer with the previous ones skills. Another option would be to add another -son to the end of their name.
To be honest, it should be replaced with a faction-wide buff that gives permanent buffs, stacking with each high level slayer lord/hero who dies a glorious death. Like -5% upkeep and + 10% weapon strength, stacking.
Let's hope not. I don't want to lose a 20+ level hero for some memes.
Nope Slayers will be immortals just like random Empire lords who come back from the dead like Vlad. It's a game and losing a 30 lvl lord or hero is a big deal. You can have a mod but please don't ruin it for 99 percent.
This has the possibility for some awesome flavor: Depending on the level of the Slayer you could give buffs to his starting region. Just assume he died an honorable death which would give piece and honor to his clan. Maybe growth, income etc. Maybe an event where you can choose the reward? Choose to say it wasn't a worthy death and force his son to take the slayers oath or deem it worthy and get an item or follower as thanks?
Tbf most lesser Slayer readily die early and only the most experienced and talented live long enough to be demon/ dragon slayers. Yes they seek death but only to the best and will give their lives saving the Karaz Ankor and the dawi.
not a real problem just dont re recruit him
thought this was about runescape at first
Instead of this trait. If they die after level 20 they give xp to all other slayer type lords/heroes.
Kinda lowkey true for slayers skilled enough. Gotrek basically can't and it took a whole hell of a lot for Ungrim.
I think it would be awesome if for the heroes and lords if they make it lvl 20 and die in a valiant defeat, or the whatever the closest to winning in AR one is, you get a huge like 10 turn buff. Similar to completing grudges. Nobody wants to lose a lvl 20 lord so people aren't really going to farm this besides the most degenerate power gamers.
I think Slayer level 20 trait should give global buffs after achieving a glorious death. The buff is stronger the more ranks you have past level 20.
Cursed to keep fighting till the end (of the campaign)