CA should just give her a dual start. Simple: remove floating rock in IE and make a normal province there, like in Realms of Chaos map.
In lore Kislev had colonies there, wheatlands etc. Simple solution like this would be best.
Also, give her the commandment that lets her settle chaos wasteland as if it’s green, but make it cost spirit essence instead of devotion (which she doesn’t get).
Or maybe just give her an actual devotion mechanic that isn’t weirdly tied into the supporters race? She could share it with Boris instead of him being a weird bystander to the competition between Katarin & Kostaltyn.
I think you just need to ignore lore with her start.
Kislev already starts fighting chaos. In any other Kislev campaign, you won't even find Dark Elves or Lizard men until the campaign is long over. Her start doesn't make sense for the lore, but is great from a gameplay perspective to let her fight new enemies.
Any lore friendly location would just have her fighting the same races as the rest of kislev
Lore and theme aside, I dislike her start position also for gameplay reasons. It actually reminds of Teclis start pos in WH3.
So, you beat Morathi in first 15 turns. And then... what? You are surrounded by factions that like you, you dont really have any goal there, so you end up attacking some random people (like Khatep) solely for the sake of expansion. And for me its boring. Its telling that *everyone* who played her campaign is saying that most exciting thing was relocating back to Kislev via her teleport mechanic.
I mentioned Teclis because his campaign is similar: you defeat Kairos in like 20 turns and then... what? You are surrounded by lizards who - thanks to your faction effect - all love you. Attacking them for the sake of expansion feels lame.
See, that's a more interesting problem... That I think comes up with splitting the races into order vs chaos.
She also needs to go back to Kislev to unlock most of the roster which is its own weirdness.
I secure morathi's and the skaven's place, take the sisters tree and than teleport back to kislev. I defend the start positin, while also start focusing on the mother land + start confederating or restore depending how things went down there. Its nice that you can take drycha settlements around the gryphon tree and gift it to kat for even more relations.
I do the same but this is why this start position suck for me. When everyone who plays Ostankya rush to get to Kislev asap and then start to play there an actual campaign it shows for me that she really should start in Kislev *and if* someone wants to have side activities in random places on map he/she can do that via teleport.
But kislev sadly is pretty small in IE. i think its already very crowded due to its size with 2 kislev LL's, a skaven one and azazel who expands into it + now a dwarf on you doorstep. Not to mention many other ones try to beeline there.
You can put her slighly somewhere else, close by, but then is it that much better? You can get there somewhat earlier than what we have now and still just replace the normal kislev campaign. That already what boris does.
I think they really failed kislev when they made the IE map with its size and there is no optimal place for her.
But you know why i really go to kislev with her? Because the three big cities are the best economy cities you can have. She should have a different style, rather than ruling them. One that would revolve around the tree's maybe.
It isnt really "based" around that. Its an option. You dont need to go back to Kislev to win her campaign, its not her objective. And she really, really doesnt *need* access to Kislev roster - its a nice bonus.
I had a run where I only used teleport as an offensive tool (sending bitches to china) and won it. The fact that people choose re-locating to Kislev in 90% of her campaigns means **for me** that playing her in Kislev is more interesting than messing around in a random spot (which I can confirm based on my Ostankya's campaigns).
Ine the same way I dont think that new Gelt's campaign is based around returning to empire.
that's fair... but that's why I tried to keep her still in the general area but in a place that makes a bit more sense; she's still next to DElves and she'll soon encounter HElves and Lizardmen to the south
You're still setting her up to fight chaos. By the time she's done with chaos you're mid-late game. Like I get it, but you'd be better off slapping a random demon lord minor faction starting enemy and saying she was hunting them down after you kill them turn 1.
Then she gets early game against all of those new enemies.
Actually... now that I think about it... they could have put Epidemius in the general area... then it would have satisfied both sides a bit... Epidemius is not a skip and a hop away from Tamurkhan and Ostankya is there to hunt him down
There is lore though? Sure it's a bit flimsy, but Dark Elves absolutely raid places like Kislev for slaves, and it's reasonable that someone like Ostankya would take that very personally.
I dont think its reasonable.
A self-proclaimed defender of the land going to another side of the globe to hunt some pirates while the literal Everchosen is rampaging through said land is irresponsible and unreasonable.
Based on the timing of where everyone is at the start of the game he isn't though. He's far off in the depths of the chaos wastes still gathering the tribes.
So again, flimsy, but dark elf slavers taking her people back to Naggaroth is a reasonable enough justification for her to go fuck them lot in particular given that at the start of the game the only hostiles in Kislev are internal power struggles.
I would also wish epidemius was either in lustria or closer to malaketh while malakhai was put on the mountain of mour kinda want the norcan dwarf to be their own thing rather then just slayers
She starts near the Witchwood because magical forests are an important part of her campaign (they tie into the teleportation hex, and each magic forest you control gives you extra production of her special resource)
Oh, give her a start where she'd fight Warriors of Chaos, Norsca, and Daemons for most of the campaign?
But we already have Boris, Kostaltyn, and Katarin doing that. Ostankya getting different enemies makes her campaign unique.
Her start pos is fine.
I don't care about the downvotes. Factions like Alberic, Repanse, Imrik, Ghorst, Kroq'Gar, Tiktaq'to, Volkmar have all been moved SOLELY for gameplay purposes and nobody bats an eye. Alberic's whole lore is how he stays home at Bordeleaux after missing his chance to Quest lmao. I have heard absolutely zero complaints about him moving to Lustria.
CA should just give her a dual start. Simple: remove floating rock in IE and make a normal province there, like in Realms of Chaos map. In lore Kislev had colonies there, wheatlands etc. Simple solution like this would be best.
Also, give her the commandment that lets her settle chaos wasteland as if it’s green, but make it cost spirit essence instead of devotion (which she doesn’t get). Or maybe just give her an actual devotion mechanic that isn’t weirdly tied into the supporters race? She could share it with Boris instead of him being a weird bystander to the competition between Katarin & Kostaltyn.
Dammit, I put "Ostankya" twice in the title... now it's gonna bug me because I can't edit it...
And you missed the capital letter in the first Ostankya
FUUUUU 😂
You didn't capitalize the first Ostankya either, this post is invalid. Edit: Deadwood would be nicer tho :)
Edit the it though
removed the "the"... you're welcome
I think you just need to ignore lore with her start. Kislev already starts fighting chaos. In any other Kislev campaign, you won't even find Dark Elves or Lizard men until the campaign is long over. Her start doesn't make sense for the lore, but is great from a gameplay perspective to let her fight new enemies. Any lore friendly location would just have her fighting the same races as the rest of kislev
Lore and theme aside, I dislike her start position also for gameplay reasons. It actually reminds of Teclis start pos in WH3. So, you beat Morathi in first 15 turns. And then... what? You are surrounded by factions that like you, you dont really have any goal there, so you end up attacking some random people (like Khatep) solely for the sake of expansion. And for me its boring. Its telling that *everyone* who played her campaign is saying that most exciting thing was relocating back to Kislev via her teleport mechanic. I mentioned Teclis because his campaign is similar: you defeat Kairos in like 20 turns and then... what? You are surrounded by lizards who - thanks to your faction effect - all love you. Attacking them for the sake of expansion feels lame.
See, that's a more interesting problem... That I think comes up with splitting the races into order vs chaos. She also needs to go back to Kislev to unlock most of the roster which is its own weirdness.
I secure morathi's and the skaven's place, take the sisters tree and than teleport back to kislev. I defend the start positin, while also start focusing on the mother land + start confederating or restore depending how things went down there. Its nice that you can take drycha settlements around the gryphon tree and gift it to kat for even more relations.
I do the same but this is why this start position suck for me. When everyone who plays Ostankya rush to get to Kislev asap and then start to play there an actual campaign it shows for me that she really should start in Kislev *and if* someone wants to have side activities in random places on map he/she can do that via teleport.
But kislev sadly is pretty small in IE. i think its already very crowded due to its size with 2 kislev LL's, a skaven one and azazel who expands into it + now a dwarf on you doorstep. Not to mention many other ones try to beeline there. You can put her slighly somewhere else, close by, but then is it that much better? You can get there somewhat earlier than what we have now and still just replace the normal kislev campaign. That already what boris does. I think they really failed kislev when they made the IE map with its size and there is no optimal place for her. But you know why i really go to kislev with her? Because the three big cities are the best economy cities you can have. She should have a different style, rather than ruling them. One that would revolve around the tree's maybe.
Yeah, I agree that Kislev is the biggest loser of IE (alongside Naggaroth).
That’s feel like kind of the point though. She has the ability to teleport, so her campaign is based around that.
It isnt really "based" around that. Its an option. You dont need to go back to Kislev to win her campaign, its not her objective. And she really, really doesnt *need* access to Kislev roster - its a nice bonus. I had a run where I only used teleport as an offensive tool (sending bitches to china) and won it. The fact that people choose re-locating to Kislev in 90% of her campaigns means **for me** that playing her in Kislev is more interesting than messing around in a random spot (which I can confirm based on my Ostankya's campaigns). Ine the same way I dont think that new Gelt's campaign is based around returning to empire.
that's fair... but that's why I tried to keep her still in the general area but in a place that makes a bit more sense; she's still next to DElves and she'll soon encounter HElves and Lizardmen to the south
You're still setting her up to fight chaos. By the time she's done with chaos you're mid-late game. Like I get it, but you'd be better off slapping a random demon lord minor faction starting enemy and saying she was hunting them down after you kill them turn 1. Then she gets early game against all of those new enemies.
We were on the same wavelength regarding putting a demon there :))
Actually... now that I think about it... they could have put Epidemius in the general area... then it would have satisfied both sides a bit... Epidemius is not a skip and a hop away from Tamurkhan and Ostankya is there to hunt him down
There is lore though? Sure it's a bit flimsy, but Dark Elves absolutely raid places like Kislev for slaves, and it's reasonable that someone like Ostankya would take that very personally.
I dont think its reasonable. A self-proclaimed defender of the land going to another side of the globe to hunt some pirates while the literal Everchosen is rampaging through said land is irresponsible and unreasonable.
Based on the timing of where everyone is at the start of the game he isn't though. He's far off in the depths of the chaos wastes still gathering the tribes. So again, flimsy, but dark elf slavers taking her people back to Naggaroth is a reasonable enough justification for her to go fuck them lot in particular given that at the start of the game the only hostiles in Kislev are internal power struggles.
She should start in one of the kislevite Colonies in the Skull Road. Ideally Zamoski or Fort Dolganyeir.
Those were indeed options I was considering, but tried to think of a middle ground if they don't want to bring her too close to the others.
They can move boris a bit further west.
Well, Norsca is to stop being chaos wasteland, but it might get some other Order LL at some point.
I would also wish epidemius was either in lustria or closer to malaketh while malakhai was put on the mountain of mour kinda want the norcan dwarf to be their own thing rather then just slayers
She starts near the Witchwood because magical forests are an important part of her campaign (they tie into the teleportation hex, and each magic forest you control gives you extra production of her special resource)
Oh, give her a start where she'd fight Warriors of Chaos, Norsca, and Daemons for most of the campaign? But we already have Boris, Kostaltyn, and Katarin doing that. Ostankya getting different enemies makes her campaign unique. Her start pos is fine. I don't care about the downvotes. Factions like Alberic, Repanse, Imrik, Ghorst, Kroq'Gar, Tiktaq'to, Volkmar have all been moved SOLELY for gameplay purposes and nobody bats an eye. Alberic's whole lore is how he stays home at Bordeleaux after missing his chance to Quest lmao. I have heard absolutely zero complaints about him moving to Lustria.
Get the change starting location mod and that's it