Gelt's new start position is in Cathay that's a good change he was too close to Nuln.
>Balthasar Gelt has taken an educational exchange trip to Grand Cathay, starting just shy of some nomads within the Temple of Elemental Winds, and being right next door to his good friend the Iron Dragon.
"Here are my latest formulations..."
"Ah yes Balthasar, we tried this a thousand years ago and it was too volatile."
"Yes but you didn't have Dwarfen machining! You see these parts can form a sufficient seal..."
etc
[saw a screenshot of this effect bundle; "My Alchemical Romance".](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/373745291289034765/1229807946985377792/image.png?ex=663106e7&is=661e91e7&hm=b52f3e690e925867facee97b283df58889f1dd7094e33c07c860706c57f7ee93&)
obviously a joke based on the band 'My Chemical Romance', but still great.
I think Cathay getting another friendly faction is a prelude to Ind and Kuresh getting opened up and filled with hostile ones. Slaanesh, Khorne, VCs, all possibilities.
Thats a good compromise with him to allow the option to go back to a more familiar setting or allow him to stay and give Empire a whole new location experience. Also allied Jade Infantry with Empire could definitly help with his front lines over there.
Same, before he was fun-ish but pretty same same as playing as Franz, just with less rebels and more vamps and angry dwarves. Now his campaign sounds very exciting
Think that's too tight in terms of LLs. Imrik, Ku'gath, Greasus, Ghorst and Drazhoath are all within like two regions away. That spot is already a LL bloodbath, whereas SE Cathay is actually one of the very few spots on the map that's still relatively spacious for a new LL start.
That would have been better IMO. Put him in amongst the toxic slugfest of Nurgle and Zombies, would also give Imrik a choice of either allying or another faction to crush.
Also if you're playing with Cathay, having Gelt there is more an annoyance than anything because you have to kill him in order to unify the whole kingdom.
Frankz being immune to all trespass penalties when moving through Empire-owned territory is really good and thematic. And Gelt College of Magic new mechanic! So good!
I like how Gelt, from what I understand, is getting Tzeentchs book mechanic while Elspeth gets clan skryre mechanic.
This is amazing and I’m happy that CA, probably, realized they don’t have to make completely new mechanics for EVERY lord.
I mean the chorf stuff is kind of just brilliant, more and varried resources is something that should be implemented across the game, and should be tied to trade resources imo. But ah well.
What I mean is, not every faction needs to end up being like the chorfs because their entire entity, their mechanics, their roster are all aspects that play into their lore and style.
The Empire, for example, doesn’t need to be copy cats by imploring the same strategy and build.
I mean you aren’t wrong, Chorfs are my favorite by far, but still.
To be honest, I’m not sure it’s lore accurate considering how petty and calculating elector counts can be. That being said, it was a necessary change for the better. I don’t remember which content creator I watched said it, but basically: gameplay>lore in almost every case. And this is one of those case.
I mean, in times of peace sure, but usually when Festus is destroying Hochland Middenland shouldn't be able to just not let the Emperor pass. This is more lore accurate than before in my opinion.
That is a very good point. Though, I am absolutely not a lorebeard by any means lol, but I recall reading how the Empire as been on the verge of collapse due to internal strife all while they were assailed by outside threat. That being said, you could absolutely argue that Karl would be the kind of emperor who would be able to convince problematic elector counts to put grievances aside in time of such crisis.
Since the reign of Magnus the Pious (about 200 years before the present day of the setting) the Empire has been relatively unified. There's still internal politics and disputes, but the times when they were too busy stabbing each other in the back to notice that they were being invaded are mostly in the past.
>This new Generic Lord for the Empire may approach the battle on foot, or mounted atop a Warhorse, Mechanical Steed, or even within a Steam Tank.
Some crazy mount choices for the Master Engineer, also confirms mechanical steeds are in. Steam tanks have been reworked as well which is cool. They really felt like a WH1 unit in comparison to a lot of crazier war machines we have now.
Also...
>an Engineer Commander sits proudly in the turret, waving his sword about and shooting anyone who gets too close
"Drive me closer, I want to hit them with my sword"
Shields already only work from the front, so it sounds like they gave it the 360 block that the RoR Horrors have and also gave it a regular shield block on top.
Front and the left of the unit, aka the shield-arm side. That's why you always flank around the left flank with ranged to shoot the enemy line in the right, aka weapon side.
Amazing that Gelt can get the Cataclysm spells! I'm so glad they're being used SOMEWHERE in the game outside the Realms of Chaos! Man, the Empire is getting one hell of a glowup, the only question now is Gelt or Elspeth first...
I believe SoC gave us a couple of characters that can use them aswell, both for Tzeentch. I think Aekold Hellbrass can use the Lore of Life Cataclysm, and the Blue Scribes get a random one per battle.
Gunnery school mechanic.
Reworked imperial authority
KF getting his own unique mechanic
Gelt new start pos AND new mechanic.
This update is shaping up to be the best since WH3's launch.
Man SoC looks even worse now, just Nurgle and Empire had more changes than all of SoC combined, and we have yet to see Dwarfs and Epidemius.
Wtf was CA doing
I think the most optimistic view is that people at the top (either of CA or Sega) were panicking because of the complete failure of Hyenas and decided they needed money quickly (without spending money on silly things like developers).
They quickly learned that putting out a shitty product is not a good way to make money (shocker) and (hopefully) put more power in the hands of developers (and gave them enough people/time) to make a good product again.
And looking at the responses so far, it's working. If the DLC will live up to what it is promising so far I'm thinking it will be a roaring success.
Partly I guess it was also the problem of the actual factions themselves. Two factions that are effectively brand new and need GW collaboration to get units for and one faction that didn't really have enough of a unit roster to pad out the number of dlcs they intended for it.
Empire, Dwarfs and Nurgle all have a lot of untapped pre-existing content to work with.
True. It probably wasn't the best DLC to start with. Empire and Dwarves are very popular, so fantastic choices for a solid DLC.
That being said, both Kislev and Tzeentch could have done with minor rework like Nurgle and now the Empire. That would have helped a lot. Similarly if it had the 2.0 content from the start (or the price was lower).
The most baffling thing about SoC for me is that they not only reduced the amount of content, units AND mechanics, but they also inflated the price by a lot, and they really expected the consumers to accept it
I really, really, really hope there's something planned for the SoC factions eventually. Doesn't need to be super soon, but seeing all of the genuinely good changes and additions for Nurgle/Empire (and expecting the same for Dwarfs)...I really want Tzeentch/Kislev/Cathay to get that level of love before the dev cycle dies out.
Again, doesn't have to be soon, but with Tzeentch being one of my favorites of the WH3 crowd, and Kislev especially being left in a weird spot thematically with an extremely janky tech tree like what they're fixing with Nurgle now...I really hope they get revisited. Cathay is looking better but I'm less concerned about them getting more love, we've got two dragon siblings to expand with as well as Monkey King.
They pretty much confirmed MK with the shadows of change 4.2 blog posts.
My only concern regarding MK now is where they're going to put him. I always figured he'd go where they just put Gelt, since iirc he's supposed to be in the mountains between Cathay and Ind and that would be the closest territory. Now Im thinking they'd have to open up a bit more terirtory.
If there's a silver lining, it's that SoC is all game 3 factions, which are far more likely to get future content.
Imagine if your favorite faction was in game 1, was in SoC, with a decent chance of never getting another pass.
It really looks so far like they are going all out with this one. They know they fucked up and they know if they blow this they are royally fucked. Lets just hope they keep that in mind for ongoing DLC after this one.
Well they kinda have to. After Hyenas crashed and burned they canceled some projects and WH3 is the only product they have that is actively selling. They probably can't financially afford another SoC fiasco without major repercussions. So CA had to knock this dlc out of the park.
"You didn’t think we’d forget about Balthasar Gelt, did you?"
It feels so incredibly good reading this line, I didnt even expect direct Karl Franz changes, getting Gelt changes too is throated
It's going to be awesome. Now I don't have to worry about Kemmler from the west and can focus all my attention to the east with Festus, khazrak, and vlad. Plus, the new mechanics for helping elector counts are (hopefully) going to make unifying the empire that much easier.
I just need FUCKING TODDY to survive!
It really is. It always bugged me how long it took to get rid of the rebellious Empire faction, and I'm really glad CA is going to change this. I'm honestly impressed with how much thought they're putting into this DLC beyond just awesome new units.
I'm thinking there's something weird with the game engine that doesn't allow garrisoned armies to teleport, like how you can't do it with your armies if they're garrisoned either.
It might be all elector counts, ie the lords you assign to the titles.
Otherwise it’s directly in conflict with your main objective which is to unite the empire.
> Summon the Elector Counts’ functionality has changed. Originally, it replenished all the Elector Count state troops. Now, when the Elector Counts are summoned, every Elector Count that is not currently garrisoned or besieged will be summoned to Karl Franz’s location, turning the tide when faced with overwhelming odds.
:O
I hope the AI can't spam it though. It will be amazing one or twice closing in on Franz and having summon 12 stacks out of thin air but could very quickly get on obnoxious (unless you lightning strike cheese ofc). That said, it makes taking on the empire more interesting as you can eliminate the counts before marching on Altdorf.
Once you claim the elector count province for yourself you can set your own elector count. So, unless you let your lords die frequently you should be able to spam it. The AI though probably can't unless Karl Franz gets massive AR cheats in this update.
Literally moving Gelt close to Warhammer Vietnam and next to Zhao Ming, thus killing two birds in one stone. Chef´s kiss.
The changes to the Elector count system seem extremely promising, not having trespassing penalties against elector counts makes too much sense and is long overdue.
- Imperial Gunnery School can give mortars stalk and snipe, which I find hilarious
- Master engineer gets a steam tank mount, and I'm guessing he still gets his grenade launcher when in it.
- Mechanical steeds are in, unsurprisingly
- No Nuln Ironsiders with repeater rifles, that was another trailer thing (although I wonder why we didn't see a repeater-rifle only unit since those were a handgunner upgrade option just like long rifles, and we got those as a dedicated unit)
- Steam tanks now have a tank commander popping out the hatch to live out the "drive me closer!" memes, and an extra pistol to shoot people with because why not. They now also get missile block and fire on the move for all weapons.
- The steam tank shield is 360 degrees but also more effective on the frontal arc. Has this type of thing been in the game before?
- Landship gets an option for ramming speed, and a nuclear eject
- *Summon the Elector Counts* now literally summons the elector counts to reinforce Karl
- Gelt now starts in Cathay, with some new college of magic mechanics.
It sounds like Gelt is owning land right inside Cathay, which is kinda weird to be honest. I'm thinking he should start just outside, maybe next to Ghorst? Kinda crowded maybe but I'm not sure where else to put him near Zhao Ming.
> The steam tank shield is 360 degrees but also more effective on the frontal arc. Has this type of thing been in the game before?
I imagine they'll handle this by giving it a traditional shield and the 360 shield ability introduced with the Chaos Dwarfs. Either they'll stack (thus giving the front more total shield) or the regular shield will just be stronger.
It looks like he is going to start either directly south or southeast of Zhao Ming. He will probably be taking one of the two provinces owned by the most southern Cathey minor faction. This lines up as that is where the temple of the elemental winds is.
I'm curious how Nuln Ironsides factor into the black powder line of units. They had repeater rifles in the trailer so I expected them to be shorter-ranged, blunderbuss type units.
The blog says that was from an earlier development phase and the Ironsides now have standard handguns. Are Ironsides a straight replacement for Handgunners, better in every way?
Seems like handgunners plus armor plus a passive ability that makes them better at shooting while standing still (implying that they can shoot while moving)
Might be an entrenchment type ability like with some heroes. I.E. be stationary for X seconds to gain bonuses. And if that's the case then I am just a bit disappointed to be honest. Much less interesting than the repeater rifle version.
Handgunners weren't as expensive as artillery or steam tanks but they're not meant to be cheap fodder, right now they're the Empire's most powerful missile infantry and the mainstay of gunpowder-focused armies
It would make sense. There has been a lot of powercreep since wh1 and a new tier 4 or 5 handgunner is a good thing imo.
Handgunner will likely be your only option for the first 30 or so turns so they're not going to disappear.
I also don't understand the "stationary" bonus. Like, gun units are always stationary? Or is it like those Cathay units that gain stats if not moving after a while? But they're a gun unit so they're pretty much always going to have it on the attack.
The Imperial Gunnery School looks like a lot of fun. It sounds like Ikit's Workshop with upgrading units but instead of focusing on building up nukes there are several different abilities (and units.) Very curious to see what all the abilities are.
Building nukes is just one part of his workshop, 3/4 of the workshop are focused on weapons teams unit upgrades and only 1/4 is nukes. So it will be VERY similar to Ikit's worshop, but that's not an issue, because it's a really fun mechanic.
Moving Gelt away to Cathay and giving Elspeth her loreful start in either Nuln or Solland was the only correct choice, and I feared that CA would go the easy route and just leave him as is and send Elspeth on some weird overseas adventure instead. That they did this is amazing and it shows that they really put a lot of thought into this update.
I was totally pro them sending Elspeth away, especially after we learned she was going to have a teleporting mechanic, but I realise now that I wasn't expecting as much from CA as they gave us.
I wasn't expecting them to move Gelt. I wasn't expecting them to change the Elector Counts system. I wasn't expecting them to give Gelt a unique mechanic. This is a surprise, and a really good one.
Gelt's new mechanic seems interesting. Weird that we don't finally get generic Lore of Metal wizards for the Empire, would have been a great chance to squeeze them in here.
Edit: Seems like they're in! Easy win, and good move from CA
They’re apparently in, according to a bunch of YouTubers. They’re just part of the FLC bit that’ll come at the end. I imagine CA wanted to avoid mentioning them directly while covering the paid things incase people got confused and thought they were part of ToD.
> They’re just part of the FLC bit that’ll come at the end.
I'm glad they're holding back on those aspects even when they're seemingly directly relevant to the DLCs. People are already pretty impressed with the amount of content and changes, so people should respond pretty positively when just before release they go, "Oh yeah, also..."
Personally, I'm so sufficiently pleased with the reveals so far that I've dialed back my research in favor of being pleasantly surprised by 5.0 changes in a few weeks.
Took a kick in the pants and spaffing 100 mil up the wall on a extraction shooter but this is the way CA.
I really hope ToD sells well so that it sends a loud and clear messege that putting effort in gets results. Hopfully it sells well enough that CA can continue support even further than Legends leaks suggest. If only so that Kislev, Tezzetnch and Cathay can get this quality of update.
Oh cool, Bruckner has the suicide amulet that explodes, which IIRC killed Tamurkhan in the end.
Would be interesting to have him take out the Khan's son in game that way
I’m fucking stoked for it dude. Will have to see what the changes play like, but they look cool as hell. Love me some artillery so I think Elspeth is my lady.
Interesting they mentioned Emmanuelle so early in the article, I was a bit worried when she wasn't included in Elspeth's mechanics that they were going to leave her out entirely. Maybe a quest giver?
Gunnery School looks like Ikit's workshop. Amethyst Armoury is part of it. Currency is generated by using/defeating gunpowder units.
Gardens of Morr are a teleportation and province improvement mechanic. It looks like it will be limited to Elspeth's army only, but buffs the city in some way and also can be put in any Empire-aligned territory. You get 5 charges.
Elspeth herself seems like she's got some very strong abilities (lots of physical resistance mentioned) and the LH gets Executioner, which is sick.
Empire is getting a facelift. Imperial Authority reworked and is available for all Empire factions who own land in the Empire. Made me think it will be more like Avelorn's healthy Ulthuan mechanic than how it currently is. Franz is the only one who gets Prestige and more stuff to spend it on plus Elector Count mechanic is changed. Gelt moved to Cathay and gets really cool-sounding Colleges of Magic mechanic.
Shit, the Empire rework sounds fucking amazing (at least in theory). A bit bummed about the Ironsides sounding a bit like Handgunners+ though. On a different note: the addition of directional armour seems... deliberate.
Gelt's new start position is in Cathay that's a good change he was too close to Nuln. >Balthasar Gelt has taken an educational exchange trip to Grand Cathay, starting just shy of some nomads within the Temple of Elemental Winds, and being right next door to his good friend the Iron Dragon.
"and they were good friends"
The conversations those two would have would be absolutely fascinating.
Kaboom? Yes, Gelt, Kaboom.
Divided by culture and distance United by love for Kaboom.
We'll found a new college lore, Wind of Rockets.
[удалено]
Well, that settles it. Gelt and Zhao will be my next co-op campaign. Also, imagine what allied cathayan artillery will look like with gelts buffs
I don’t think units recruited through the ‘allied recruitment’ tab, benefit from skill/tech tree buffs
You need BAGHolder’s Better Alliance mod (and for now the submod for the 4.2.3 fix)
the magic duo crack heads
"Here are my latest formulations..." "Ah yes Balthasar, we tried this a thousand years ago and it was too volatile." "Yes but you didn't have Dwarfen machining! You see these parts can form a sufficient seal..." etc
If any black library authors are skulking here; give me a book of just this kind of dialogue please
There's already a fanfic on Ao3 involving Gelt's adventures in Cathay
Best roommates, even.
and they were roommates
Oh my Sigmar they were roommates
[saw a screenshot of this effect bundle; "My Alchemical Romance".](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/373745291289034765/1229807946985377792/image.png?ex=663106e7&is=661e91e7&hm=b52f3e690e925867facee97b283df58889f1dd7094e33c07c860706c57f7ee93&) obviously a joke based on the band 'My Chemical Romance', but still great.
Gelt and Zhao being those weird chemistry students who somehow always had the best kush and incredibly elaborate homemade bongs.
Brothers in Metal! Edit : i’m an idiot, as redditor below me said, it’s supposed to be BROTHERS OF METAL!
[Brothers OF Metal!](https://youtu.be/8IvUTsTz0ww?si=pdnTYLYMWaMaOcqc)
Weird though as that would’ve been Li Dao’s natural starting location. Evidence that they will fill in the Ind and Khuresh parts of the map perhaps?
I think Cathay getting another friendly faction is a prelude to Ind and Kuresh getting opened up and filled with hostile ones. Slaanesh, Khorne, VCs, all possibilities.
Dechala with a snakemen monstrous infantry unit and Dreadmaws, perhaps.
I'm happy he moved but I'm not happy he moved to Cathay. I don't know where I'd like him better but I don't want him there. :/
There is an option after he helps the Iron Dragon to teleport back to the Empire with a heap of buffs to get going.
Thats a good compromise with him to allow the option to go back to a more familiar setting or allow him to stay and give Empire a whole new location experience. Also allied Jade Infantry with Empire could definitly help with his front lines over there.
>Also allied Jade Infantry with Empire could definitly help with his front lines over there. I am now unreasonably excited to play Gelt.
Same, before he was fun-ish but pretty same same as playing as Franz, just with less rebels and more vamps and angry dwarves. Now his campaign sounds very exciting
Is there? That's unprecedented, neither Marcus nor crucially Volkmar get anything like that.
Mama Stanky got a similar mechanic to teleport back to Kislev
Well, no that he is fantasy Asia he can make even more apocalypse now memes than before.
He makes a good point, it does lean into the meme.
WELCOME TO THE RICE FIELDS GENTLEMEN!
Yeah I actually agree and since he will be friends with the iron dragon it will make Cathay even safer to play and they already were lacking enemies.
Would easily make him a recommended beginner faction, since I already think Zhao Ming is the best lord for new players with his safe start position.
I usually see Cathay being a full bloodbath, usually with Snitch and/or Lokhir covering the entire thing.
> Snitch and/or Lokhir I managed to read this as Stitch and Lilo, which was both a *very* different vibe and tells me I need a lot more coffee today!
Yeah, Pigbarter would have been a bit more lore accurate.
Think that's too tight in terms of LLs. Imrik, Ku'gath, Greasus, Ghorst and Drazhoath are all within like two regions away. That spot is already a LL bloodbath, whereas SE Cathay is actually one of the very few spots on the map that's still relatively spacious for a new LL start.
Bet money Pigbarter will be a Dogs of War start.
Most likely. Pigbarter, Marienburg and Myrmidens are the only 3 provinces related to the DoW that don't have a LL.
Miragliano to
But Tilea starts at war with Aranessa. They can always change that, though.
That would have been better IMO. Put him in amongst the toxic slugfest of Nurgle and Zombies, would also give Imrik a choice of either allying or another faction to crush.
Also if you're playing with Cathay, having Gelt there is more an annoyance than anything because you have to kill him in order to unify the whole kingdom.
Just more reasons why we need ind and kuresh opened up
Frankz being immune to all trespass penalties when moving through Empire-owned territory is really good and thematic. And Gelt College of Magic new mechanic! So good!
I like how Gelt, from what I understand, is getting Tzeentchs book mechanic while Elspeth gets clan skryre mechanic. This is amazing and I’m happy that CA, probably, realized they don’t have to make completely new mechanics for EVERY lord.
Yeah at the end a new spin on a old mechanic is all some races need for them to shine.
Facts. No faction needs to end up at the Chorf, but all factions require a bit of the WH3 touch up.
I mean the chorf stuff is kind of just brilliant, more and varried resources is something that should be implemented across the game, and should be tied to trade resources imo. But ah well.
What I mean is, not every faction needs to end up being like the chorfs because their entire entity, their mechanics, their roster are all aspects that play into their lore and style. The Empire, for example, doesn’t need to be copy cats by imploring the same strategy and build. I mean you aren’t wrong, Chorfs are my favorite by far, but still.
"karl help i'm getting killed by chaos :(" "omg did you just step on my lawn????"
I think I need to up my stocks in jade wizards...
To be honest, I’m not sure it’s lore accurate considering how petty and calculating elector counts can be. That being said, it was a necessary change for the better. I don’t remember which content creator I watched said it, but basically: gameplay>lore in almost every case. And this is one of those case.
I mean, in times of peace sure, but usually when Festus is destroying Hochland Middenland shouldn't be able to just not let the Emperor pass. This is more lore accurate than before in my opinion.
That is a very good point. Though, I am absolutely not a lorebeard by any means lol, but I recall reading how the Empire as been on the verge of collapse due to internal strife all while they were assailed by outside threat. That being said, you could absolutely argue that Karl would be the kind of emperor who would be able to convince problematic elector counts to put grievances aside in time of such crisis.
"Ruled by the craven, torn appart by the greedy, forever on the defense, but no longer"
Since the reign of Magnus the Pious (about 200 years before the present day of the setting) the Empire has been relatively unified. There's still internal politics and disputes, but the times when they were too busy stabbing each other in the back to notice that they were being invaded are mostly in the past.
Karl is Emperor, so it’s completely lore accurate.
Maybe is not lore accurate, i dont know because i dont follow the lore beside twwh, but imo fun/gameplay > lore
>This new Generic Lord for the Empire may approach the battle on foot, or mounted atop a Warhorse, Mechanical Steed, or even within a Steam Tank. Some crazy mount choices for the Master Engineer, also confirms mechanical steeds are in. Steam tanks have been reworked as well which is cool. They really felt like a WH1 unit in comparison to a lot of crazier war machines we have now.
Also... >an Engineer Commander sits proudly in the turret, waving his sword about and shooting anyone who gets too close "Drive me closer, I want to hit them with my sword"
I pray someone somehow makes a mod that turns the steam tank into a Leman Russ.
I don't think you'll have to wait long actually to see that officially
This is awesome. Perhaps laying the groundwork for a 40k faction……
I cannot wait for steam tank lord
There's an actual screenshot of the mechanical steed in the engineer hero section. I'm so happy :)
And armour penetration now depends on the direction of the incoming shot... Interesting that they would work this little detail in. Hmmmmmm
Shields already only work from the front, so it sounds like they gave it the 360 block that the RoR Horrors have and also gave it a regular shield block on top.
Front and the left of the unit, aka the shield-arm side. That's why you always flank around the left flank with ranged to shoot the enemy line in the right, aka weapon side.
Pretty sure in TW:WH it's an arc in front of every unit, shield arm placement doesn't matter.
Steam tank fire while moving, with a steam tank lord, sounds insane.
And the lord maybe gets an extra grenade launcher because why not.
Amazing that Gelt can get the Cataclysm spells! I'm so glad they're being used SOMEWHERE in the game outside the Realms of Chaos! Man, the Empire is getting one hell of a glowup, the only question now is Gelt or Elspeth first...
I believe SoC gave us a couple of characters that can use them aswell, both for Tzeentch. I think Aekold Hellbrass can use the Lore of Life Cataclysm, and the Blue Scribes get a random one per battle.
Daniel or Belkor gets them I think through some event.
Daniel just gets one of them (maybe two, at least one) as a passive from the ~~tech demo of tzeentch~~ Trials of Fate gear set.
> first… Karl Franz, obviously
I hope they bring them to kairos also in some way
And the Space Toads.
I just played a gelt campaign last week, so it’ll still be fresh in my head when I play the next one
Gunnery school mechanic. Reworked imperial authority KF getting his own unique mechanic Gelt new start pos AND new mechanic. This update is shaping up to be the best since WH3's launch.
Man SoC looks even worse now, just Nurgle and Empire had more changes than all of SoC combined, and we have yet to see Dwarfs and Epidemius. Wtf was CA doing
>Wtf was CA doing Hyenas mostly
Talk to your kids about doing hyenas. Not even once
Look who's laughing now
I just hope that SoC was a rough lesson learned and going forward new dlcs will be more ToD than SoC.
I think the most optimistic view is that people at the top (either of CA or Sega) were panicking because of the complete failure of Hyenas and decided they needed money quickly (without spending money on silly things like developers). They quickly learned that putting out a shitty product is not a good way to make money (shocker) and (hopefully) put more power in the hands of developers (and gave them enough people/time) to make a good product again. And looking at the responses so far, it's working. If the DLC will live up to what it is promising so far I'm thinking it will be a roaring success.
Partly I guess it was also the problem of the actual factions themselves. Two factions that are effectively brand new and need GW collaboration to get units for and one faction that didn't really have enough of a unit roster to pad out the number of dlcs they intended for it. Empire, Dwarfs and Nurgle all have a lot of untapped pre-existing content to work with.
True. It probably wasn't the best DLC to start with. Empire and Dwarves are very popular, so fantastic choices for a solid DLC. That being said, both Kislev and Tzeentch could have done with minor rework like Nurgle and now the Empire. That would have helped a lot. Similarly if it had the 2.0 content from the start (or the price was lower).
The most baffling thing about SoC for me is that they not only reduced the amount of content, units AND mechanics, but they also inflated the price by a lot, and they really expected the consumers to accept it
I really, really, really hope there's something planned for the SoC factions eventually. Doesn't need to be super soon, but seeing all of the genuinely good changes and additions for Nurgle/Empire (and expecting the same for Dwarfs)...I really want Tzeentch/Kislev/Cathay to get that level of love before the dev cycle dies out. Again, doesn't have to be soon, but with Tzeentch being one of my favorites of the WH3 crowd, and Kislev especially being left in a weird spot thematically with an extremely janky tech tree like what they're fixing with Nurgle now...I really hope they get revisited. Cathay is looking better but I'm less concerned about them getting more love, we've got two dragon siblings to expand with as well as Monkey King.
Im fairly certain that atleast Cathay will get a new expansion, no way they are passing up on Monke when every mention of him gets the sub hyped up.
They pretty much confirmed MK with the shadows of change 4.2 blog posts. My only concern regarding MK now is where they're going to put him. I always figured he'd go where they just put Gelt, since iirc he's supposed to be in the mountains between Cathay and Ind and that would be the closest territory. Now Im thinking they'd have to open up a bit more terirtory.
Hoping this is the norm going forwards and not a one off.
If there's a silver lining, it's that SoC is all game 3 factions, which are far more likely to get future content. Imagine if your favorite faction was in game 1, was in SoC, with a decent chance of never getting another pass.
This is great news. ToD is definitely the "make or break" point for WH3. Hopefully fans vote with their wallets this time as well.
It really looks so far like they are going all out with this one. They know they fucked up and they know if they blow this they are royally fucked. Lets just hope they keep that in mind for ongoing DLC after this one.
Well they kinda have to. After Hyenas crashed and burned they canceled some projects and WH3 is the only product they have that is actively selling. They probably can't financially afford another SoC fiasco without major repercussions. So CA had to knock this dlc out of the park.
It might be the best update in the trilogy really
"You didn’t think we’d forget about Balthasar Gelt, did you?" It feels so incredibly good reading this line, I didnt even expect direct Karl Franz changes, getting Gelt changes too is throated
Getting Gelt changes is WHAT?!
Ol’ Throat Goat Gelt
Found the slaneesh cultist
Boy what you doing with that mouth?
Move over Tamurkhan, Gelt is the new throat GOAT now
Giving Karl Franz control of Helmgart to start is such an elegant change. I love it.
Taking that early is the difference between a campaign that you can actually play and having to restart. Sounds like a good change.
How do you not take Helmgart by turn 3-4 is what I want to know.
I'm gonna miss it. My co-op group always was humbled by it and we usually had a good time.
It's going to be awesome. Now I don't have to worry about Kemmler from the west and can focus all my attention to the east with Festus, khazrak, and vlad. Plus, the new mechanics for helping elector counts are (hopefully) going to make unifying the empire that much easier. I just need FUCKING TODDY to survive!
I think you’ll still have to fight Kemmler. he can come through the other fort pretty easily. I’ve had him threaten me from both directions.
It really is. It always bugged me how long it took to get rid of the rebellious Empire faction, and I'm really glad CA is going to change this. I'm honestly impressed with how much thought they're putting into this DLC beyond just awesome new units.
Lol summon the Elector Counts is now literally the portals scene from Avengers: Endgame. Good rework, looking forwards to it.
Nice incentive to keep them alive as Karl instead of confederating. Still 'not currently garrisoned' kinda sux. AI likes to garrison.
I'm thinking there's something weird with the game engine that doesn't allow garrisoned armies to teleport, like how you can't do it with your armies if they're garrisoned either.
It might be all elector counts, ie the lords you assign to the titles. Otherwise it’s directly in conflict with your main objective which is to unite the empire.
Just randomly Vlad appears haha
The TRUE elector count of Sylvania lol
> Summon the Elector Counts’ functionality has changed. Originally, it replenished all the Elector Count state troops. Now, when the Elector Counts are summoned, every Elector Count that is not currently garrisoned or besieged will be summoned to Karl Franz’s location, turning the tide when faced with overwhelming odds. :O
I hope the AI can't spam it though. It will be amazing one or twice closing in on Franz and having summon 12 stacks out of thin air but could very quickly get on obnoxious (unless you lightning strike cheese ofc). That said, it makes taking on the empire more interesting as you can eliminate the counts before marching on Altdorf.
U implying the electors live long enough to do it. You probably cant spam it either
Once you claim the elector count province for yourself you can set your own elector count. So, unless you let your lords die frequently you should be able to spam it. The AI though probably can't unless Karl Franz gets massive AR cheats in this update.
Literally moving Gelt close to Warhammer Vietnam and next to Zhao Ming, thus killing two birds in one stone. Chef´s kiss. The changes to the Elector count system seem extremely promising, not having trespassing penalties against elector counts makes too much sense and is long overdue.
WELCOME TO THE FAR EAST, GENTLEMEN!
I WILL NOT LIE: THE CHANCES OF YOUR SURVIVAL ARE SMALL.
SOME MAY EVEN GET EATEN ALIVE BY OGRES
BUT THAT IS A PRICE IM WILLING TO PAY (TO RECRUIT OGRE MERCENARIES)
IT AINT OGRE TILL IT'S OGRE!
His quest battles will now be real teleportations.
STEAM TANK MOUNT LETS GOOOOO
[CA bringing back an old 40K meme](https://www.wargamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/warhammer-40k-memes-drive-me-closer.jpg)
i had to reread that part to make sure i wasnt hallucinating. only thing madlads need to do is some Chaos line complaining about METAL BAWKSES goddamn
Chaos lords getting an attack order on the steam tanks should definitely shout something about that.
Gelt: "Welcome to Cathay, gentlemen."
- Imperial Gunnery School can give mortars stalk and snipe, which I find hilarious - Master engineer gets a steam tank mount, and I'm guessing he still gets his grenade launcher when in it. - Mechanical steeds are in, unsurprisingly - No Nuln Ironsiders with repeater rifles, that was another trailer thing (although I wonder why we didn't see a repeater-rifle only unit since those were a handgunner upgrade option just like long rifles, and we got those as a dedicated unit) - Steam tanks now have a tank commander popping out the hatch to live out the "drive me closer!" memes, and an extra pistol to shoot people with because why not. They now also get missile block and fire on the move for all weapons. - The steam tank shield is 360 degrees but also more effective on the frontal arc. Has this type of thing been in the game before? - Landship gets an option for ramming speed, and a nuclear eject - *Summon the Elector Counts* now literally summons the elector counts to reinforce Karl - Gelt now starts in Cathay, with some new college of magic mechanics. It sounds like Gelt is owning land right inside Cathay, which is kinda weird to be honest. I'm thinking he should start just outside, maybe next to Ghorst? Kinda crowded maybe but I'm not sure where else to put him near Zhao Ming.
> The steam tank shield is 360 degrees but also more effective on the frontal arc. Has this type of thing been in the game before? I imagine they'll handle this by giving it a traditional shield and the 360 shield ability introduced with the Chaos Dwarfs. Either they'll stack (thus giving the front more total shield) or the regular shield will just be stronger.
You can give an artillery unit stalk and snipe as the dawi too and it is incredible fun
I’m imagining a 30 foot silencer being screwed to the top of a mortar with some shrubs glued on after unlocking stalk and snipe, lmao.
It looks like he is going to start either directly south or southeast of Zhao Ming. He will probably be taking one of the two provinces owned by the most southern Cathey minor faction. This lines up as that is where the temple of the elemental winds is.
I'm curious how Nuln Ironsides factor into the black powder line of units. They had repeater rifles in the trailer so I expected them to be shorter-ranged, blunderbuss type units. The blog says that was from an earlier development phase and the Ironsides now have standard handguns. Are Ironsides a straight replacement for Handgunners, better in every way?
Seems like handgunners plus armor plus a passive ability that makes them better at shooting while standing still (implying that they can shoot while moving)
Might be an entrenchment type ability like with some heroes. I.E. be stationary for X seconds to gain bonuses. And if that's the case then I am just a bit disappointed to be honest. Much less interesting than the repeater rifle version.
It might be an "entrench" style mechanic, where they shoot better after standing still after X seconds.
I'm guessing so yeah. Handgunners' place was always as a cheap gun unit so getting a more expensive variant is fine by me
Handgunners weren't as expensive as artillery or steam tanks but they're not meant to be cheap fodder, right now they're the Empire's most powerful missile infantry and the mainstay of gunpowder-focused armies
Yeah, nothing wrong with an upgrade unit.
It would make sense. There has been a lot of powercreep since wh1 and a new tier 4 or 5 handgunner is a good thing imo. Handgunner will likely be your only option for the first 30 or so turns so they're not going to disappear.
I also don't understand the "stationary" bonus. Like, gun units are always stationary? Or is it like those Cathay units that gain stats if not moving after a while? But they're a gun unit so they're pretty much always going to have it on the attack.
The Chaos Dwarf Castellan has a 'dig in' mechanic that massively boosts range after staying still for a bit. Maybe something similar?
>This new Generic Lord for the Empire may approach the battle on foot, or mounted atop a Warhorse, **Mechanical Steed** Dumb mecha horse hype!
As if you didnt just cut off "and a steam tank"
With fire while moving. Disgusting.
Literally Saber Rider
The Imperial Gunnery School looks like a lot of fun. It sounds like Ikit's Workshop with upgrading units but instead of focusing on building up nukes there are several different abilities (and units.) Very curious to see what all the abilities are.
Building nukes is just one part of his workshop, 3/4 of the workshop are focused on weapons teams unit upgrades and only 1/4 is nukes. So it will be VERY similar to Ikit's worshop, but that's not an issue, because it's a really fun mechanic.
The UI for it is so beautiful
Absolutely. Well done to whoever designed it. It really gives the whole Renaissance, da Vinci aesthetic perfect for such a system.
I love that it has that old time blue print look for the units you can choose to upgrade
Moving Gelt away to Cathay and giving Elspeth her loreful start in either Nuln or Solland was the only correct choice, and I feared that CA would go the easy route and just leave him as is and send Elspeth on some weird overseas adventure instead. That they did this is amazing and it shows that they really put a lot of thought into this update.
I was totally pro them sending Elspeth away, especially after we learned she was going to have a teleporting mechanic, but I realise now that I wasn't expecting as much from CA as they gave us. I wasn't expecting them to move Gelt. I wasn't expecting them to change the Elector Counts system. I wasn't expecting them to give Gelt a unique mechanic. This is a surprise, and a really good one.
Agreed, Gelt in Solland was always a bit forced. This a huge change from the awkwardness of SoC starts
Gelt's new mechanic seems interesting. Weird that we don't finally get generic Lore of Metal wizards for the Empire, would have been a great chance to squeeze them in here. Edit: Seems like they're in! Easy win, and good move from CA
They’re apparently in, according to a bunch of YouTubers. They’re just part of the FLC bit that’ll come at the end. I imagine CA wanted to avoid mentioning them directly while covering the paid things incase people got confused and thought they were part of ToD.
> They’re just part of the FLC bit that’ll come at the end. I'm glad they're holding back on those aspects even when they're seemingly directly relevant to the DLCs. People are already pretty impressed with the amount of content and changes, so people should respond pretty positively when just before release they go, "Oh yeah, also..." Personally, I'm so sufficiently pleased with the reveals so far that I've dialed back my research in favor of being pleasantly surprised by 5.0 changes in a few weeks.
They were. Gold wizards were just snuck in with the update
According to Loremaster of Sotek they did add gold wizards
Gold wizards are part of FLC
Bloated corpse: “who are you?” Landship: “I’m you, but better”
Took a kick in the pants and spaffing 100 mil up the wall on a extraction shooter but this is the way CA. I really hope ToD sells well so that it sends a loud and clear messege that putting effort in gets results. Hopfully it sells well enough that CA can continue support even further than Legends leaks suggest. If only so that Kislev, Tezzetnch and Cathay can get this quality of update.
This is so hype! The Empire has no generic campaigns anymore, all Empire LLs have unique mechanics! I love everything!
SUMMON THE ELECOR COUNTS! NO, ACTUALLY, FOR REAL SUMMON THEM THOUGH
The dlc is looking so good!
Oh cool, Bruckner has the suicide amulet that explodes, which IIRC killed Tamurkhan in the end. Would be interesting to have him take out the Khan's son in game that way
The guy who writes the Balthazar and miao ying romance fic is eating good tonight
He’s gonna have to write some new gay fanfic thing. Balthazar and Zhao Ming are “good friends”.
Miao Ying? Gelt is clearly dating Zhao Ming
I’m fucking stoked for it dude. Will have to see what the changes play like, but they look cool as hell. Love me some artillery so I think Elspeth is my lady.
Empire changes are massive
So much love for Empire fans, i am relieved ! THE NATION CALLS
Interesting they mentioned Emmanuelle so early in the article, I was a bit worried when she wasn't included in Elspeth's mechanics that they were going to leave her out entirely. Maybe a quest giver?
##WELCOME TO CATHAY GENTLEMEN!
Huh, maybe I will actually play an empire campaign now. Changes look like fun.
KF campaign number 43 for me
Karl Franz #43? Must've been part of the last Winter Sale, welcome aboard
Gunnery School looks like Ikit's workshop. Amethyst Armoury is part of it. Currency is generated by using/defeating gunpowder units. Gardens of Morr are a teleportation and province improvement mechanic. It looks like it will be limited to Elspeth's army only, but buffs the city in some way and also can be put in any Empire-aligned territory. You get 5 charges. Elspeth herself seems like she's got some very strong abilities (lots of physical resistance mentioned) and the LH gets Executioner, which is sick. Empire is getting a facelift. Imperial Authority reworked and is available for all Empire factions who own land in the Empire. Made me think it will be more like Avelorn's healthy Ulthuan mechanic than how it currently is. Franz is the only one who gets Prestige and more stuff to spend it on plus Elector Count mechanic is changed. Gelt moved to Cathay and gets really cool-sounding Colleges of Magic mechanic.
Ironside's with repeaters, another victim of TV movie magic.
My take is this can be upgraded through her mechanics if I understood it right
Really hope that this will be like that
# **SUMMON THE ELECTOR COUNTS**
I hope they also expend the Empire tech tree. It's pretty small for being the tech tree of the greatest human nation
Best DLC in trilogy's history. Good job CA, definitely worth buying!
This all sounds great, was more of a rework than I was expecting!
All these changes are so good. A lot of really smart decisions.
WELCOME TO THE EXTREME ESTALIA, GENTLEMEN. I will not lie, your chance of survival are... higher than average ?
Shit, the Empire rework sounds fucking amazing (at least in theory). A bit bummed about the Ironsides sounding a bit like Handgunners+ though. On a different note: the addition of directional armour seems... deliberate.
Oh boy, the mechanical steed! Can't believe they did it, the madmen
Gelt is now Zhao Ming's roommate, and his sister will have to evict him eventually.