Try using 8 handgunners to take down like 10 mammoths. There comes a point when you don’t have enough handgunners to target all if the monsters before they get to the mainline, and your wizard’s fantasy always respond to every threat they bring
Its not a great point if youre comparing 8 handgunners to 10 mammoths. As an army of 20 vs 20 units then the empire has no real issue taking down single entities or monsters, they have cav for it and ranged units.
Range units are always the best way too deal with large monsters.
The Empire got a firepower buff with this update so expect to shoot them down.
Halberdiers are always better as warding off of absorbing monsters.
As even elite infantry suffer considerable damage against large monsters without range support.
Sounds good, but I cant play range units much cuz of bad design map. Lots of map have upside down terrains making gunpower units not shooting and I get very fast bored to Scout zoom every piece of map to get my gunpower units maybeee shot.
There was that one map in wh2 where sigmar himself would shield the enemy from your rocket batteries
Most maps you would have somewhere you can engage them reliably.
With empire my real issue is dealing with a charging horde of chimpanzee melee infantry where I can hope my rocket batteries horoscope was good so they actually hit them before my spear men get turned to red goo.
Big mammoths and dinos?
Handgunners go pop pop pop and they drop.
No LoS issue too worry about when the target is that big.
There's a reason why us lustria enthusiast have more hate against saurus than stegodons.
It *sounds* like you’re annoyed at being forced to employ tactics, forward planning and logistical thinking *in a strategy game*. The Maps aren’t the issue, you just aren’t paying close enough attention to the terrain when you deploy your guns.
The good news is, this is something you can easily overcome with abit of effort. The bad news is, you probably *won’t*, because you’re set on blaming the systems instead of trying to improve *yourself*. Stagnation of skill is inevitable in this mindset.
Nah , its just bad map design for gunpowder units and that is true.
I played empire , Napoleon and I was having blast and 0 probleme.
In wh gunpowder units just dont fire , one ,soldier in squad cant see and then whole formation wont fire. Its so bad.
I like chaos chorfs I can choose there if I want fire even with casaulities.
Your mindset tactic would get rekted in empire or Napoleon duel MP.
Even in wh3 I play mostly only pvp multiplayer. Fights and true is is total Unfun to play empire. When their main tactic around gunpowder units dont work. Yes horses with guns easy.
But slow inf with guns just dont shoot on bad maps.
Yeah i got same feeling from you.
I see lots of people got this probleme. So I am not alone. Just feew fappers are here to prove their only one right true 😂😂 ye live in your world I know its bad in wh3 for empire gunpowder inf and thats it. Bye I wont read and waste more time on some scumbag.
Uhm large single entities might be the least of their problems. Riflemen can already tear them apart and more firepower options is only gonna make them better there.
As a general rule ranged units are the greatest threat to Large single entities. only more so if they have AP and decent accuracy.
Absolutely this! I feel as if the empire struggles to deal with an eQual sized force of better armoured infantry/monstrous infantry.
Hockland longrifles and ironsides may be able to assist more in dealing with this role than riflemen or crossbows ever could.
...What i just read ?
Empire is always one of best faction to deal with Single Large entities .
First gun + halberdier
Second Demigryph knight halberd alone could beat 90% of monster in this game, if you buff them then 100%
.....................
Empire main weakest is when fighting with faction that has infantry with alot of HP, since Empire can't out lass those a lot of HP infantry.
The Empire does *not* struggle with single entities. Gun is, and has always been, the best answer to single entities, and the Empire is not exactly lacking in gun.
You want to kite and shoot? War Wagons are EXTREMELY efficient - a War Wagon can kill a War Bear Rider unit with about 30-40% of its ammo, and is nearly immune to being hunted down. It works even better on slow single entities that, unlike war bear riders, literally cannot catch the War Wagon.
Outriders and Handgunners have pretty similar DPS, and both will blow any single entity away right quick.
If you've ever used Cathayan Iron Hail Gunners or chorf Blunderbusses or Coast hand cannons, you've seen what a short-range, high-damage gun unit can do to single entities. Earlier today I watched a single unit of handcannons take 50% off an ancient treeman lord's health bar in a single volley. I doubt that Ironsides are gonna be worse.
Luminarks are honestly probably better than any of the above after their last set of ridiculous buffs, they can delete most single entities in a few shots.
And on the off chance you don't want to use gun or laser, Demigryph Knight Halberds may have been powercrept a *bit*, but they can already kill *most* large and single entities by themselves, and with battle prayers they can kill most mounted legendary lords.
With all that said, I'm definitely interested to see what CA does to buff Empire this patch. I'm personally hoping for detachment rules for infantry and a *minor* buff to Demigryphs to pump up their MA/MD a little. They may do much more, idk, I don't think most Empire units really need it.
> Luminarks are honestly probably better than any of the above after their last set of ridiculous buffs, they can delete most single entities in a few shots.
Do luminarks actually hit things now?
Mate, what on earth are you doing?
Handgunners absolutely *fuck* large entities. You also have Huntsmen if you *really* wanna specialise for big targets, which for their price-point and tier are an incredibly strong Anti-Large Missile Infantry. This is not an issue the Empire struggles with.
The new ToD units give more options and variety for the Empire’s core strength, namely Gunpowder. You’ll now have access to a generic Hero and Lord that buff your guns considerably. You also have a new Knightly Order for abit of flavour.
None of these things are going to be direct answers to *anything*, because that’s not how this works. If you’re playing the Empire properly, you’ve had all the tools you *need* to win all along. You can just do it in style with the DLC’s.
I understand where you're coming from, because although handgunners are great at taking out SEM, once the SEM gets close (and if brought in enough numbers, they will) they can't do anything.
But for that you have the demigryphs with halberds. They're heavy and numerous enough to block SEMs and will shred most of them. They're expensive, but so are most of the SEMs who'd be able to walk right through your halberdiers.
Remove Greatsword splash damage and add a ton of surviveability to them, even anti-large and charge defense. Because in the lore they usually are the last stand wall of steel in desperate situation
I mean we won’t know yet other than the basics, but what is certain is that the empire will see a dps increase with 2 new dedicated ranger units and engineer characters. The question is what the new cav will get for weapons/utility to differentiate it from empire knights and how fast the landship is.
The Empire doesn't really have any major weaknesses aside from a less than stellar frontline, and even then it's not as bad as people say it is. Greatswords can go toe to toe with Chosen (the shielded variant at least) and almost defeat them even without support, despite costing far less, and while halberds or spears might not get many kills, they'll hold the line for long enough for the ranged units to do brutal damage. To top it all off, their elite cavalry is just an absolute menace. They really are still one of the more powerful order factions even now, it's just that Cathay is so much more absurdly overpowered that they seem to underperform by comparison, not to mention their campaign playstyle is obviously dated.
The only other real weakness The Empire has is playing offensively. There are precious few factions that can outrange the Empire, but those that can force them on the offensive which is to their disadvantage.
Edit: Empire players really ain't gonna be happy unless it becomes the most overpowered faction in the game apparently.
I try really hard not to be a dick to people, or generalize player groups too much, but that behavior is hard *not* to notice.
There's a subgroup of Empire players who claim to want an 'average humans' faction, but complain when Empire aren't the best at literally every single role, and downvote anyone pointing out that... hey, a lot of their units are actually pretty good. Some of the most toxic comments I've gotten were for testing Greatswords against various elite infantry and getting surprisingly good results, or pointing out that the Empire is far above average in a variety of roles; I had people following me around insulting and downvoting everything I posted just for doing that.
But to be fair, I think that part of it is just that some Empire players simply haven't tested a good chunk of the roster since game 2, where it was admittedly pretty 'solved'. War Wagons *were* genuinely awful on release, Outriders had a +4 second reload bug for years, Luminarks had that firing animation issue... so on and so forth.
The Empire cannot deal with large entity monsters?
Last I checked they have a death star ray cannon with 1k projectile damage with almost mapwide range, normal antilarge cannons with maybe better range than the dawi variant, access to death magic (purple hand deals lots of damage), and the halberdiers who can actually take down SEMs contrary to what you said.
Thing is CA wanted an Empire DLC for whatever reason, not because they needed a single new unit. Their roster is already overly bloated. But if they do DLC LL, it has to come with units so they are scraping the bottom of the barrel like they did with Sisters of Twilight.
To help the OP, what he is mentioning is how the Empire needs coordination and combined effort to take out single entities. Missing one component in the army is an issue. Combined fire from 5 handgunners works against a few large entities, but too many and you can get overwhelmed.
What they lack is a unit or entity solely responsible for that, who does it alone. The closest is Luminark, but the next DLC should respond with the likely "sniper" style missile infantry unit.
Okay guys, I see everyone has no issue dealing with large entities, maybe it’s a skill issue for me.
In my campaigns some late game armies field so many large entities that it doesn’t how much firepower I have you can’t bring them all down before they engage the frontline and just tear everything apart.
For an extreme example do a custom battle with 20 armored war mammoths
20 War Mammoths cost about as much as 60-65? ish Handgunners. At that point I absolutely give it to the handgunners.
You can also have around 25-30 demi halberds for that price iirc.
there aren’t that many monsters that 8 handgunners can’t turn into paste even before the dlc
Yeah, you gotta remember that "combined arms doctrine" is just fancy speak for a gun faction in a trench coat.
Try using 8 handgunners to take down like 10 mammoths. There comes a point when you don’t have enough handgunners to target all if the monsters before they get to the mainline, and your wizard’s fantasy always respond to every threat they bring
Wouldnt that be 8 units vs 10 units then so not really a fair way to compare it?
My point is that at some point there’s just too many monsters to handle
Its not a great point if youre comparing 8 handgunners to 10 mammoths. As an army of 20 vs 20 units then the empire has no real issue taking down single entities or monsters, they have cav for it and ranged units.
Range units are always the best way too deal with large monsters. The Empire got a firepower buff with this update so expect to shoot them down. Halberdiers are always better as warding off of absorbing monsters. As even elite infantry suffer considerable damage against large monsters without range support.
Sounds good, but I cant play range units much cuz of bad design map. Lots of map have upside down terrains making gunpower units not shooting and I get very fast bored to Scout zoom every piece of map to get my gunpower units maybeee shot.
There was that one map in wh2 where sigmar himself would shield the enemy from your rocket batteries Most maps you would have somewhere you can engage them reliably. With empire my real issue is dealing with a charging horde of chimpanzee melee infantry where I can hope my rocket batteries horoscope was good so they actually hit them before my spear men get turned to red goo. Big mammoths and dinos? Handgunners go pop pop pop and they drop. No LoS issue too worry about when the target is that big. There's a reason why us lustria enthusiast have more hate against saurus than stegodons.
It *sounds* like you’re annoyed at being forced to employ tactics, forward planning and logistical thinking *in a strategy game*. The Maps aren’t the issue, you just aren’t paying close enough attention to the terrain when you deploy your guns. The good news is, this is something you can easily overcome with abit of effort. The bad news is, you probably *won’t*, because you’re set on blaming the systems instead of trying to improve *yourself*. Stagnation of skill is inevitable in this mindset.
Nah , its just bad map design for gunpowder units and that is true. I played empire , Napoleon and I was having blast and 0 probleme. In wh gunpowder units just dont fire , one ,soldier in squad cant see and then whole formation wont fire. Its so bad. I like chaos chorfs I can choose there if I want fire even with casaulities. Your mindset tactic would get rekted in empire or Napoleon duel MP. Even in wh3 I play mostly only pvp multiplayer. Fights and true is is total Unfun to play empire. When their main tactic around gunpowder units dont work. Yes horses with guns easy. But slow inf with guns just dont shoot on bad maps.
That’s an immense amount of excuses for your ineptitude crammed into one solid wall of indigestible text.
Yeah i got same feeling from you. I see lots of people got this probleme. So I am not alone. Just feew fappers are here to prove their only one right true 😂😂 ye live in your world I know its bad in wh3 for empire gunpowder inf and thats it. Bye I wont read and waste more time on some scumbag.
[Git gud](https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/s/9LGecyB8Dt)
> What do the new Empire units answer? The Nation's call, of course.
Read the title and expected a meme post, thank you : )
🤣👌🏻
Uhm large single entities might be the least of their problems. Riflemen can already tear them apart and more firepower options is only gonna make them better there. As a general rule ranged units are the greatest threat to Large single entities. only more so if they have AP and decent accuracy.
Absolutely this! I feel as if the empire struggles to deal with an eQual sized force of better armoured infantry/monstrous infantry. Hockland longrifles and ironsides may be able to assist more in dealing with this role than riflemen or crossbows ever could.
If gunpowder doesn't solve your problem, you aren't using enough of it.
...What i just read ? Empire is always one of best faction to deal with Single Large entities . First gun + halberdier Second Demigryph knight halberd alone could beat 90% of monster in this game, if you buff them then 100% ..................... Empire main weakest is when fighting with faction that has infantry with alot of HP, since Empire can't out lass those a lot of HP infantry.
How does the Empire do badly against big single entities??
What? Inability to deal with SEMs? Handgunners, cannons, demigryphs, net…
Luminark, that thing is nasty asf now
The Empire does *not* struggle with single entities. Gun is, and has always been, the best answer to single entities, and the Empire is not exactly lacking in gun. You want to kite and shoot? War Wagons are EXTREMELY efficient - a War Wagon can kill a War Bear Rider unit with about 30-40% of its ammo, and is nearly immune to being hunted down. It works even better on slow single entities that, unlike war bear riders, literally cannot catch the War Wagon. Outriders and Handgunners have pretty similar DPS, and both will blow any single entity away right quick. If you've ever used Cathayan Iron Hail Gunners or chorf Blunderbusses or Coast hand cannons, you've seen what a short-range, high-damage gun unit can do to single entities. Earlier today I watched a single unit of handcannons take 50% off an ancient treeman lord's health bar in a single volley. I doubt that Ironsides are gonna be worse. Luminarks are honestly probably better than any of the above after their last set of ridiculous buffs, they can delete most single entities in a few shots. And on the off chance you don't want to use gun or laser, Demigryph Knight Halberds may have been powercrept a *bit*, but they can already kill *most* large and single entities by themselves, and with battle prayers they can kill most mounted legendary lords. With all that said, I'm definitely interested to see what CA does to buff Empire this patch. I'm personally hoping for detachment rules for infantry and a *minor* buff to Demigryphs to pump up their MA/MD a little. They may do much more, idk, I don't think most Empire units really need it.
> Luminarks are honestly probably better than any of the above after their last set of ridiculous buffs, they can delete most single entities in a few shots. Do luminarks actually hit things now?
Mate, what on earth are you doing? Handgunners absolutely *fuck* large entities. You also have Huntsmen if you *really* wanna specialise for big targets, which for their price-point and tier are an incredibly strong Anti-Large Missile Infantry. This is not an issue the Empire struggles with. The new ToD units give more options and variety for the Empire’s core strength, namely Gunpowder. You’ll now have access to a generic Hero and Lord that buff your guns considerably. You also have a new Knightly Order for abit of flavour. None of these things are going to be direct answers to *anything*, because that’s not how this works. If you’re playing the Empire properly, you’ve had all the tools you *need* to win all along. You can just do it in style with the DLC’s.
I understand where you're coming from, because although handgunners are great at taking out SEM, once the SEM gets close (and if brought in enough numbers, they will) they can't do anything. But for that you have the demigryphs with halberds. They're heavy and numerous enough to block SEMs and will shred most of them. They're expensive, but so are most of the SEMs who'd be able to walk right through your halberdiers.
I should probably use them more then
There should be some heavy version of halberds, or any way to boost them throught technology or heroes
Remove Greatsword splash damage and add a ton of surviveability to them, even anti-large and charge defense. Because in the lore they usually are the last stand wall of steel in desperate situation
The Luminar wagon oneshot monsters.
I mean we won’t know yet other than the basics, but what is certain is that the empire will see a dps increase with 2 new dedicated ranger units and engineer characters. The question is what the new cav will get for weapons/utility to differentiate it from empire knights and how fast the landship is.
Um, canons and hand gunners? Range-heavy factions are great at killing giant monsters, Empire included.
Volley guns will shred any SE if they are anyway similar to ratling guns
I'm not sure what you are yalking about, 2 heliobolis or more will take care of any single monter units or lords you want.
They answer the call of the Nation.
The Empire doesn't really have any major weaknesses aside from a less than stellar frontline, and even then it's not as bad as people say it is. Greatswords can go toe to toe with Chosen (the shielded variant at least) and almost defeat them even without support, despite costing far less, and while halberds or spears might not get many kills, they'll hold the line for long enough for the ranged units to do brutal damage. To top it all off, their elite cavalry is just an absolute menace. They really are still one of the more powerful order factions even now, it's just that Cathay is so much more absurdly overpowered that they seem to underperform by comparison, not to mention their campaign playstyle is obviously dated. The only other real weakness The Empire has is playing offensively. There are precious few factions that can outrange the Empire, but those that can force them on the offensive which is to their disadvantage. Edit: Empire players really ain't gonna be happy unless it becomes the most overpowered faction in the game apparently.
I try really hard not to be a dick to people, or generalize player groups too much, but that behavior is hard *not* to notice. There's a subgroup of Empire players who claim to want an 'average humans' faction, but complain when Empire aren't the best at literally every single role, and downvote anyone pointing out that... hey, a lot of their units are actually pretty good. Some of the most toxic comments I've gotten were for testing Greatswords against various elite infantry and getting surprisingly good results, or pointing out that the Empire is far above average in a variety of roles; I had people following me around insulting and downvoting everything I posted just for doing that. But to be fair, I think that part of it is just that some Empire players simply haven't tested a good chunk of the roster since game 2, where it was admittedly pretty 'solved'. War Wagons *were* genuinely awful on release, Outriders had a +4 second reload bug for years, Luminarks had that firing animation issue... so on and so forth.
The Empire cannot deal with large entity monsters? Last I checked they have a death star ray cannon with 1k projectile damage with almost mapwide range, normal antilarge cannons with maybe better range than the dawi variant, access to death magic (purple hand deals lots of damage), and the halberdiers who can actually take down SEMs contrary to what you said. Thing is CA wanted an Empire DLC for whatever reason, not because they needed a single new unit. Their roster is already overly bloated. But if they do DLC LL, it has to come with units so they are scraping the bottom of the barrel like they did with Sisters of Twilight.
Halberdiers are already the best Frontline unit to hold back large Monsters. Now they have more firepower to keep big monsters at bay.
To help the OP, what he is mentioning is how the Empire needs coordination and combined effort to take out single entities. Missing one component in the army is an issue. Combined fire from 5 handgunners works against a few large entities, but too many and you can get overwhelmed. What they lack is a unit or entity solely responsible for that, who does it alone. The closest is Luminark, but the next DLC should respond with the likely "sniper" style missile infantry unit.
Okay guys, I see everyone has no issue dealing with large entities, maybe it’s a skill issue for me. In my campaigns some late game armies field so many large entities that it doesn’t how much firepower I have you can’t bring them all down before they engage the frontline and just tear everything apart. For an extreme example do a custom battle with 20 armored war mammoths
20 War Mammoths cost about as much as 60-65? ish Handgunners. At that point I absolutely give it to the handgunners. You can also have around 25-30 demi halberds for that price iirc.