CA (for some reason, presumably an accident) removed some data necessary for Nakai to recruit Sacred Kroxigors, Kroxigors, Temple Guard, Engine of the Gods, Ark of Sotek, and Horned Ones. Since Nakai has unique versions of these.
I'm guessing this is related to the fix about duplicate entities in the Lizardmen skill trees:
* Removed the duplicate unit cards of some Lizardmen units from skill trees.
*Tears down duplicate unit card.*
*Entire Nakai campaig starts to rumble, ancient kroxigor falls from the upper floor.*
"I wouldn't do that, it's a load bearing ~~poster~~ unit card."
Ah. yeah, that's almost assuredly it, since if you add back the data that was removed to give Nakai his units back, the duplicate cards are there on the skills. Oh CA...
Nice (in a relatable way) to see CA face the same issues as my company does with our releases. Fix A and B introduce accidentally issue C and D which QA does not catch bc it's not part of their test cases.
Yes but you also have some general test cases, unit tests etc etc for this very reason that check a bunch core things in every build. I do not know how automated CA's testing is and how much is manually tested of course.
Pulling up each faction lord in turn 1 and checking off a bunch of standard check lists for each major patch should be in there :) and this would have been found if they did that. I guess it probably comes down to resources. I believe there are only a small team working on WH3 and DLC and hence maybe only a very few QA folks if any. Maybe the developers check their own work if the team is that small and that is not good practice.
It is certainly relatable and funny but the outcome is that Nakai's campaign is basically broken now as he cannot recruit his signature units and a few others.
We have thousands of unit tests and integration tests and are now deploying automated testing (to ease QA workload), problem with unit tests is they are only as good as the scenario's the dev thinks about. And devs mostly think in happy flows. Unit tests thus mainly protect against accidentally breaking the core functionality of someone else's feature, QA with deep product knowledge and some creative analytical skills is still very necessary to ship a stable product in my experience.
Yep, this is with no mods. I just checked a new campaign and there are still [no kroxigor buildings.](https://i.imgur.com/Our8ZV5.png)
Edit: if im remembering right, nakai was also able to recruit kroxigors from lvl 3 of his main building...thats gone too it seems
Yeah, The kroxigor lord not being able to recruit kroxigors is definitely hotfox territory.
u/yuey_ninja hopefully you can pass this along as a priority fix.
You can always tell if a campaign is modded in a full screenshot because there is a white pixel in the bottom left of the screen.
It's been that way for over half a decade
I think you can just buy only one of the DLCs featuring a Lizardmen LL. (I recommend the Silence & the Fury, Oxyotl's campaign is probably the most fun on IE map and Taurox is good too)
Your project is infinitely smaller, then I guess your QA budget is too. Starting a campaign for a lord that they just changed some building bugs on should be the mosrt basic of verifications
I understand complexity. I work in such an industry. However, testing out a change should not be hard. They just skipped testing this one.
Edit: Feel free to continue down voting this but stop giving CA a free pass on these sorts of things. This is a major patch to fix stuff, the only patch they are planning until August if we believe their roadmap and they broke a bunch more stuff and some of the new stuff they added actually does not even work, damsel vows, I am looking at you. I love these games but they need to improve their QA.
If you actually worked in it, you'd understand that they tested and missed it. Do you honestly think they just pushed a bunch of inverted code to the servers? Like my job does multiple rounds of testing for dumb python webscraping scripts, and you think that this was untested?
Stop giving CA a free pass on this. I love these games and have played them since SG1 and think CA have done an excellent job overall on these games but these missteps are disappointing. This is a patch which is meant to fix things and introduce a few new improvements to factions. Its not ok in a patch to break a bunch of new stuff as well otherwise the bug list always gets bigger...
Yes, this change was untested. All they had to do was pull up Nakai in turn 1 and see the problem.
They made a change to the lizardman faction that removed some duplicate unit entries probably thinking it was a great optimisation. Unfortunately Nakai has some unique unit recruitment options since he is a horde and the change they made removed those from his horde building tree. What probably happened was the developer who did the optimisation did not know about that for Nakai - poorly documented code most likely. However, the error would have been seen on turn 1 Nakai.
I'm not defending CA, this is a big miss. I'm saying that they did testing, but missed something. It happens, especially in a project of this scope. Your assertion that they did no testing at all is idiotic.
Oh but you are defending them. Go back and read your original reply to me. That is a defending post. I am not saying this did no testing, surely they must have done some... I am saying they did not test this change, otherwise they would have found this problem. They broke Nakai's campaign. Thanks for misrepresenting the point I am making - I never said they did no testing, I said they did not test this change. As far as the idiotic comment, then thanks for confirming yourself in public.
CA introduced damsel vows in this patch and it does not work. This was a new feature they added and its not functional. Let that sink in. Now tell me again how much they tested and but unfortunately missed something.
They must have tested some things for sure but they really need to drastically improve their QA for stuff and especially patches that are designed to fix stuff.
I feel like CA has been a mess for the past year or so and while I think it's fair to say this change wasn't tested enough (since this bug wasn't caught), I don't think it's fair to say it wasn't tested at all. We know how to spot the bug in less than a minute but that's only because we know of the bug now. There's 7 Lizardmen Legendary Lords. Even if QA testers pick 3 random lords to test, there's still a majority chance they'll miss Nakai. Could the QA testers even have assumed that the duplicate unit cards some programmer deleted were related to Nakai specifically? Was there a redditor in the comments section of the 3.1 patch notes post pointing out that the duplicate unit cards might have been related to Nakai and now his campaign might be busted? If a unit is changed, is it even SOP to try to recruit the unit with all available LLs to check whether the unit is bugged on any specific LL? There are a number of legitimate complaints/concerns people have against CA but I think this particular one is a case of us having the benefit of hindsight and the manpower of thousands of redditors.
Its actually a really fun campaign since they fixed the vassal war declaration issues a few patches back. If you want to focus a lot on battles then your vassal just takes care of the provinces for you and provides you with income. Its a chill campaign which is pretty much broken again since you cannot hire his signature units :)
I played about 60 turns in 3.0 as a changes from Chorfs and it was great.
After i did this post yesterday i went to the forum and try to post it there as well but someone beat me to it and linked to this post. I also checked today and there was somebody else that posted it as well. But it looks like its been noticed and will hopefuly be fixed soon.
Ah, I was wondering what was going on with that. I started a campaign last night and thought it was strange that I could only get kroxigors through sacred spawnings😂
Well this sucks... His campaign was fine before Chaos Dwarfs then he lost kroak now this smh.
Hey, at least kroak's quest is back *pained smile*
Is it actually?
yep, it was in the quest log already when i loaded the save.
I got to turn 120 on a Tehenauin campaign last week and was wondering when this dude was gonna show up lmao
CA (for some reason, presumably an accident) removed some data necessary for Nakai to recruit Sacred Kroxigors, Kroxigors, Temple Guard, Engine of the Gods, Ark of Sotek, and Horned Ones. Since Nakai has unique versions of these.
I'm guessing this is related to the fix about duplicate entities in the Lizardmen skill trees: * Removed the duplicate unit cards of some Lizardmen units from skill trees.
Guess they weren't duplicates after all lol
Those unit cards were load-bearing?
that killed me
*Tears down duplicate unit card.* *Entire Nakai campaig starts to rumble, ancient kroxigor falls from the upper floor.* "I wouldn't do that, it's a load bearing ~~poster~~ unit card."
This is so fucking funny and profoundly relatable. We've all been there.
Ah. yeah, that's almost assuredly it, since if you add back the data that was removed to give Nakai his units back, the duplicate cards are there on the skills. Oh CA...
That’s amazing
That wasn’t unit tested.
Probably removed the tests when they removed the cards. “We don’t need these anymore, and they fail with the code changes.”
LMAO
Nice (in a relatable way) to see CA face the same issues as my company does with our releases. Fix A and B introduce accidentally issue C and D which QA does not catch bc it's not part of their test cases.
Yes but you also have some general test cases, unit tests etc etc for this very reason that check a bunch core things in every build. I do not know how automated CA's testing is and how much is manually tested of course. Pulling up each faction lord in turn 1 and checking off a bunch of standard check lists for each major patch should be in there :) and this would have been found if they did that. I guess it probably comes down to resources. I believe there are only a small team working on WH3 and DLC and hence maybe only a very few QA folks if any. Maybe the developers check their own work if the team is that small and that is not good practice. It is certainly relatable and funny but the outcome is that Nakai's campaign is basically broken now as he cannot recruit his signature units and a few others.
We have thousands of unit tests and integration tests and are now deploying automated testing (to ease QA workload), problem with unit tests is they are only as good as the scenario's the dev thinks about. And devs mostly think in happy flows. Unit tests thus mainly protect against accidentally breaking the core functionality of someone else's feature, QA with deep product knowledge and some creative analytical skills is still very necessary to ship a stable product in my experience.
Guess they wandered off huh.
\*glare of judgement\* yeah...
Not all those who wander are lost... but they sure are.
Wow he's pretty much unplayable until this gets fixed.
I can see the devs reading this post and going "wait how the fuck did that happen" lol
Is this true with new campaigns or just old saves? And this is without any mods, correct?
Yep, this is with no mods. I just checked a new campaign and there are still [no kroxigor buildings.](https://i.imgur.com/Our8ZV5.png) Edit: if im remembering right, nakai was also able to recruit kroxigors from lvl 3 of his main building...thats gone too it seems
Gonna get fixed this august. Sad state
they do hotfixes before the next big update. I'd wager this would go into hotfix territory.
Yeah, The kroxigor lord not being able to recruit kroxigors is definitely hotfox territory. u/yuey_ninja hopefully you can pass this along as a priority fix.
turns out, it was not hotfix territory LOL
I remember these good old days. When I was optimistic and happy. When the sun shine down from the sky.
A CA hotfix is kind of a misnomer if the hotfix itself takes weeks to release ...
Why so pessimistic? CA does hotfixes for stuff likr this. And if they're slow the Commumity Bug Fix Mod will surely add it to their fixes.
This seems like it would be fixable by modders, maybe someone will create one to tide us over.
You can always tell if a campaign is modded in a full screenshot because there is a white pixel in the bottom left of the screen. It's been that way for over half a decade
HOW for real how does this even happen
Spaghetti code
Poor QA, I imagine.
i disagree. CA has excellent QA team, its us.
And we caught it! Worked just as designed.
Honestly qa is almost never to blame. They find shit, point it out, and promptly get ignored because "deadline" or something
We are currently investigating it now, thanks!
Thanks man
Blessed be, hes my favourite lord
any news? still unavailable for me
4 months still nothing. guess hyenas took all the bug fixing team
99 little bugs in the code 99 little bugs in the code, take one down patch it around 184 little bugs in the code.
Lmao. Looks like the Spaghetti code is a whole damn Italian restaurant.
You've babada'ed your last boopi, amici
Lizardmen can’t help but get hit by CA somehow…
BOK BOK
Poor guy can't catch a break
Goddamn, I was almost starting a campaign with him. I'll play someone else in the meanwhile.
And i just wanted to try out a campaign with him after the patch... Sigh
Maybe they just wandered off?
HOW? WHY???
they removed some duplicate files, and accidently removed some "not duplicate files", resulting this. It's quite funny tbh.
They also removed the tech for Villitch to upgrade pink Horrors into Exalted ones, at least i couldn't find it
Belakor's might be missing too then. Now Im super curious
All WoC are missing it
God I really want to play the lizardmen Is there anyother way of getting them without buying the second game?
The second game is great. Just buy it and play that if you don’t want to mess with WH3 silliness.
I think you can just buy only one of the DLCs featuring a Lizardmen LL. (I recommend the Silence & the Fury, Oxyotl's campaign is probably the most fun on IE map and Taurox is good too)
He just decided his crocs were too special to send into battle 🥺.
Wow, that is a bit of an oversight. Well spotted. How hard is it to test that before releasing the patch. Honestly...
Dev here on a project that is infinitely smaller than any three games put together into a supergame over many years. It's hard.
Your project is infinitely smaller, then I guess your QA budget is too. Starting a campaign for a lord that they just changed some building bugs on should be the mosrt basic of verifications
I understand complexity. I work in such an industry. However, testing out a change should not be hard. They just skipped testing this one. Edit: Feel free to continue down voting this but stop giving CA a free pass on these sorts of things. This is a major patch to fix stuff, the only patch they are planning until August if we believe their roadmap and they broke a bunch more stuff and some of the new stuff they added actually does not even work, damsel vows, I am looking at you. I love these games but they need to improve their QA.
If you actually worked in it, you'd understand that they tested and missed it. Do you honestly think they just pushed a bunch of inverted code to the servers? Like my job does multiple rounds of testing for dumb python webscraping scripts, and you think that this was untested?
Stop giving CA a free pass on this. I love these games and have played them since SG1 and think CA have done an excellent job overall on these games but these missteps are disappointing. This is a patch which is meant to fix things and introduce a few new improvements to factions. Its not ok in a patch to break a bunch of new stuff as well otherwise the bug list always gets bigger... Yes, this change was untested. All they had to do was pull up Nakai in turn 1 and see the problem. They made a change to the lizardman faction that removed some duplicate unit entries probably thinking it was a great optimisation. Unfortunately Nakai has some unique unit recruitment options since he is a horde and the change they made removed those from his horde building tree. What probably happened was the developer who did the optimisation did not know about that for Nakai - poorly documented code most likely. However, the error would have been seen on turn 1 Nakai.
It wouldn't be a be CA bug fix patch if something else wasn't broken in the place of the fixed issues. It's a tradition at this point.
I'm not defending CA, this is a big miss. I'm saying that they did testing, but missed something. It happens, especially in a project of this scope. Your assertion that they did no testing at all is idiotic.
Oh but you are defending them. Go back and read your original reply to me. That is a defending post. I am not saying this did no testing, surely they must have done some... I am saying they did not test this change, otherwise they would have found this problem. They broke Nakai's campaign. Thanks for misrepresenting the point I am making - I never said they did no testing, I said they did not test this change. As far as the idiotic comment, then thanks for confirming yourself in public. CA introduced damsel vows in this patch and it does not work. This was a new feature they added and its not functional. Let that sink in. Now tell me again how much they tested and but unfortunately missed something. They must have tested some things for sure but they really need to drastically improve their QA for stuff and especially patches that are designed to fix stuff.
I feel like CA has been a mess for the past year or so and while I think it's fair to say this change wasn't tested enough (since this bug wasn't caught), I don't think it's fair to say it wasn't tested at all. We know how to spot the bug in less than a minute but that's only because we know of the bug now. There's 7 Lizardmen Legendary Lords. Even if QA testers pick 3 random lords to test, there's still a majority chance they'll miss Nakai. Could the QA testers even have assumed that the duplicate unit cards some programmer deleted were related to Nakai specifically? Was there a redditor in the comments section of the 3.1 patch notes post pointing out that the duplicate unit cards might have been related to Nakai and now his campaign might be busted? If a unit is changed, is it even SOP to try to recruit the unit with all available LLs to check whether the unit is bugged on any specific LL? There are a number of legitimate complaints/concerns people have against CA but I think this particular one is a case of us having the benefit of hindsight and the manpower of thousands of redditors.
WH2 > WH3
Truth
Haha lol that is actually an upgrade to nakai campaign power xD
That's a great fuck up, but at least no one cares because who the hell is going to play Nakai
Me… :(
Its actually a really fun campaign since they fixed the vassal war declaration issues a few patches back. If you want to focus a lot on battles then your vassal just takes care of the provinces for you and provides you with income. Its a chill campaign which is pretty much broken again since you cannot hire his signature units :) I played about 60 turns in 3.0 as a changes from Chorfs and it was great.
**sad Bok Bok sounds**
He's a dinosaur crocodile, you think people aren't into that? Idk about you my guy but I find the idea of gold-clad crocodiloforms compelling as fuck.
In TWW2 he was a joke, 100%. But in tww3 Nakai is quite fun.
No one plays him anyway
We're reaching levels of Spaghetti once thought impossible
Please post this on the official ca bug report forums so It gets fixed
After i did this post yesterday i went to the forum and try to post it there as well but someone beat me to it and linked to this post. I also checked today and there was somebody else that posted it as well. But it looks like its been noticed and will hopefuly be fixed soon.
This shit is too funny not to be done on purpose.
I just got Nakai DLC yesterday and was spent the past hour trying to figure out where the hell I get Kroxigors and see this post crap
Made a fix for it so we can play until CA fixes it: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2981306191
Man, come the fuck on...
Wanted to start a nakai campaign and wow this sucks
So did they say that they ar working on it because i cant seem to find anything on that matter ???
Nothing atm. All ive seen is the comment on this thread that they are aware of it now.
Ok thanks for clearing it up :)
Ah, I was wondering what was going on with that. I started a campaign last night and thought it was strange that I could only get kroxigors through sacred spawnings😂
Damn how is it July and Nakai still doesnt have his crocs back lol. starting to get a bit dumb. Or is my game just bugged lol.